# Help with servos.



## Toetag (Jan 31, 2008)

Well what servo controller are you going to use? The reason i ask is i used the ssc32 board and the movements were choppy like stutery(is that even a word) and there is this fella on here that used a prop board from efx tek i dont know which board but his movements were super smooth! and the only thing different was the board so i assume that had to be 1 reason. One problem about efx tek boards though is you have to know how to program in basic....but i have heard that the people that work there will write the code for you if your nice enough  and i think prop boards are stand alone. So i guess it depends on what your after and your budget. Hope this helps a little bit.


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## yardhauntjunkie (Feb 26, 2009)

Toetag said:


> Well what servo controller are you going to use?


That is what I am trying to figure out? Like I said I would love to be able to use it in conjunction with a Light O Rama show, but I also wouldn't mind if it was a stand alone that was motion activated.


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## yardhauntjunkie (Feb 26, 2009)

YouTube - ASSM12h Servo Controller 18-channels, 8-bit

Could this work?


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## mark_mco (Oct 16, 2007)

Light-O-Rama has a new controller hopefully coming out later this year - the DIO32 - a 32 channel digital I/O controller that will be able to control 16 servos. Here's a link to the preliminary manual: DIO32 Controller Board. Latest word is it will be out sometime in June. No pricing details yet, but I bet it will run in the $200 - $250 range.

Lacking that, I'd say your next best option is to run VSA (~$60) Visual Show Automation on a computer connected to a servo control board like a Parallax Servo Controller, or a SSC-32 Servo Controller. For a really cheap alternative (~$20), you can get this  Pololu Micro Serial Servo Controller.  All of these require a serial connection, but you can always pick up a USB-Serial converter for less than $10 if your PC doesn't have a serial port on-board. You can run servo extension cables at least 10-15 feet with no problem - maybe longer. Depending on how far apart your props/servos are, you should be able to keep the controller board count to a minimum.


Mark


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## yardhauntjunkie (Feb 26, 2009)

mark_mco said:


> Light-O-Rama has a new controller hopefully coming out later this year - the DIO32 - a 32 channel digital I/O controller that will be able to control 16 servos. Here's a link to the preliminary manual: DIO32 Controller Board. Latest word is it will be out sometime in June. No pricing details yet, but I bet it will run in the $200 - $250 range.
> 
> Lacking that, I'd say your next best option is to run VSA (~$60) Visual Show Automation on a computer connected to a servo control board like a Parallax Parallax Servo Controller, or a SSC-32 board SSC-32 Servo Controller. For a really cheap alternative (~$20), you can get this  Pololu Micro Serial Servo Controller All of these require a serial connection, but you can always pick up a USB-Serial converter for less than $10 if your PC doesn't have a serial port on-board. You can run servo extension cables at least 10-15 feet with no problem - maybe longer. Depending on how far apart your props/servos are, you should be able to keep the controller board count to a minimum.
> 
> ...


Thank you for all the great info. SkinDeep F/X, the guy who is now famous for his Lucy dragon, has been helping me out. I decided to use the SSC-32 to control my servos. So basically I have it boiled down to 2 options. 

1. Run a Light O Rama show at specific times with breaks in between. Then Schedule VSA routines in the in between times to control the servo part of the show.

2. Sell my Light O Rama and just go with VSA and buy DMX controllers for the lights.

The 3rd option is a new one now that mark suggested that Light O Rama might come out with a new board. That would be to hold off on everything until Light O Rama comes out with their board and run everything off of that. But, I have to be honest I have been reading the forums and it sounds like they have been saying they were going to come out with it for a long time. So I don't want to get my hopes up on that. So it looks like option 2 is getting more and more likely every day.


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## bfjou812 (Jun 6, 2008)

Just a thought, Servo city has a servo controller that can record and play, I think they will control up to 8 servos at a time. Not sure that's what you're looking for, but might be wirth checking out.


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## mark_mco (Oct 16, 2007)

yardhauntjunkie said:


> Thank you for all the great info. SkinDeep F/X, the guy who is now famous for his Lucy dragon, has been helping me out. I decided to use the SSC-32 to control my servos. So basically I have it boiled down to 2 options.
> 
> 1. Run a Light O Rama show at specific times with breaks in between. Then Schedule VSA routines in the in between times to control the servo part of the show.
> 
> ...


I've been using LOR product for a couple of years now - mostly for Our Christmas Light Display. I'm up to 104 channels plus a CMB-16D DC board which I used in my Halloween display last year to control low voltage landscape lights and assorted LED flashlights I had directed on individual props. I've followed the forums and seen the delays on the DIO product as you have. Dan claims it is in use now commercially, and will be available for the sale they have in June. But we'll have to wait and see. 
If you're going to go the DMX route, don't forget the LOR boxes can be used a DMX dimmer packs - DMX-DOC.pdf. Just as long as you have the latest firmware and a cable - RJ45 to XLR 3 pin Adapter or you can make your own for the cost of a female XLR connector and patch cable. I've tested it out and it works fine. You'll need to get a USB-DMX adapter like the Enttec Open DMX interface. And for DMX servo controller option, for $50 you can pick up a Northlight Systems 8 channel DMX board. I actually bought one of these when I first started building my 3-axis skull, then decided to go with the Board of Chuckee Servo controller due to the additional features like the ability to set servo end points and the RGB LED driver circuit which I want to use for the eyes. I've decided DMX is the way to go since a single cable can be daisy-chained to control all of my props and lights. I'm also planning on purchasing the a DMXorcist Haunt Controller. This will allow me the greatest flexibility with my plans for multiple 3-axis skulls, other props as well as DMX lights like the Chauvet ColorSplash JR washlights I picked up last year at a garage sale.

Mark


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## yardhauntjunkie (Feb 26, 2009)

mark_mco said:


> I've been using LOR product for a couple of years now - mostly for Our Christmas Light Display. I'm up to 104 channels plus a CMB-16D DC board which I used in my Halloween display last year to control low voltage landscape lights and assorted LED flashlights I had directed on individual props. I've followed the forums and seen the delays on the DIO product as you have. Dan claims it is in use now commercially, and will be available for the sale they have in June. But we'll have to wait and see.
> If you're going to go the DMX route, don't forget the LOR boxes can be used a DMX dimmer packs - DMX-DOC.pdf. Just as long as you have the latest firmware and a cable - RJ45 to XLR 3 pin Adapter or you can make your own for the cost of a female XLR connector and patch cable. I've tested it out and it works fine. You'll need to get a USB-DMX adapter like the Enttec Open DMX interface. And for DMX servo controller option, for $50 you can pick up a Northlight Systems 8 channel DMX board. I actually bought one of these when I first started building my 3-axis skull, then decided to go with the Board of Chuckee Servo controller due to the additional features like the ability to set servo end points and the RGB LED driver circuit which I want to use for the eyes. I've decided DMX is the way to go since a single cable can be daisy-chained to control all of my props and lights. I'm also planning on purchasing the a DMXorcist Haunt Controller. This will allow me the greatest flexibility with my plans for multiple 3-axis skulls, other props as well as DMX lights like the Chauvet ColorSplash JR washlights I picked up last year at a garage sale.
> 
> Mark


the question i have is can you control servos in that scenario? i don't want skulls. i want to adapt my props i have and build new ones. it sounds like the most simple solution would be to go the VSA route. That way it is one source for everything. 

Lights run through a DMX controller.

Servos run through a 32 channel servo controller.

Then maybe a DMX controller in the future for pneumatic props. 

This way everything can be part of one simple show.

Oh and the other question is who in the world has color splash jrs at their garage sale?


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

Or you could just go completely DMX and use a DMX servo board, there are several available, and you will get a lot more flexibility out of a VSA based DMX only system, especially if you consider a later upgrade to DMXorcist.

DMXorcist is pretty much a vital component in large scale control project design, the problem you get with VSA alone is that you can get stuck on just a single track/routine/loop, DMXorcist gives you the opportunity to run multiple routines and tracks down a single DMX network.


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## dyceskynes (Sep 5, 2007)

Most skulls have from 2 to 5+ servos in them, so if it can control a skull then see it as just controlling servos.


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## mark_mco (Oct 16, 2007)

yardhauntjunkie said:


> the question i have is can you control servos in that scenario? i don't want skulls. i want to adapt my props i have and build new ones. it sounds like the most simple solution would be to go the VSA route. That way it is one source for everything.
> 
> Lights run through a DMX controller.
> 
> ...


This was answered in the previous reply, but to reiterate - nearly all of the talking skulls use servos to control the movements. It can be as few as one for the jaw for a basic talking skull to as many as six for a 3-axis with 2-axis eye movement. As far as the servo controller, Phoenix's suggestion elaborates on my position from my previous reply where I gave links to two DMX servo boards as well as the DMXorcist product.
The Colorsplash Jr find was a total fluke. I just happened drive past a garage sale that had a lot of tools displayed which I'm always looking to pick up. I stopped to take a look and saw 2 Colorsplash lamps on a table loaded with a bunch of kitchen junk. I asked if they worked and how much they were asking for them. He said $50 for the pair and I replied how about $40? Not a bad deal in my opinion since they were perfectly.

Mark


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## yardhauntjunkie (Feb 26, 2009)

dyceskynes said:


> Most skulls have from 2 to 5+ servos in them, so if it can control a skull then see it as just controlling servos.


Yes that is true. There are also a lot of skulls that are just sound activated motors so I wanted to be clear.


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## yardhauntjunkie (Feb 26, 2009)

Phoenix_UK said:


> Or you could just go completely DMX and use a DMX servo board, there are several available, and you will get a lot more flexibility out of a VSA based DMX only system, especially if you consider a later upgrade to DMXorcist.
> 
> DMXorcist is pretty much a vital component in large scale control project design, the problem you get with VSA alone is that you can get stuck on just a single track/routine/loop, DMXorcist gives you the opportunity to run multiple routines and tracks down a single DMX network.


Thanks for the info. I am just a home haunter and don't need to sync video, have stereo audio or run multiple VSA routines at a time. So I don't think having the ability to start stop routines would justify the added expense of either of the Exorcist products in my particular case. Plus I was looking at the VSA version 4.0 and it has the ability to play multiple audio files at once and support for multi-channel audio files (mono, stereo, 5.1, 7.1, etc.).

I am new to this and appreciate the help. I am sure I have made some errors in my research here so I would greatly appreciate any feedback. Thanks again.


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

yardhauntjunkie said:


> Thanks for the info. I am just a home haunter and don't need to sync video, have stereo audio or run multiple VSA routines at a time. So I don't think having the ability to start stop routines would justify the added expense of either of the Exorcist products in my particular case. Plus I was looking at the VSA version 4.0 and it has the ability to play multiple audio files at once and support for multi-channel audio files (mono, stereo, 5.1, 7.1, etc.).
> 
> I am new to this and appreciate the help. I am sure I have made some errors in my research here so I would greatly appreciate any feedback. Thanks again.


Sorry, the point I was trying to make is that the VSA/DMX route is very versatile and can lead to much bigger and better things. The most common 'error' people new to this kind of control system make is to go down a route that does not and cannot grow, and all too often their past investment in hardware gets pushed aside because it has become limiting.

The truth about all the features in Exorcist and DMXorcist is that nobody uses them all, most of them were added because users wanted to do something new and needed a new feature to make it possible, and if it was feasible it got added, this is how Exorcist grows and evolves, in direct response to users needs.

The one feature that everybody does use however is the ability to trigger VSA routines using PIRs and mat switches, not only does Exorcist give you the software but the hardware as well.

The addition of multi channel support to VSA (which was 2 years behind Exorcist) does help a lot, and with VSA alone you have a pretty good platform on which to build a control system.... after VSA then I strongly recommend you concentrate on DMX hardware, and you can buy Exorcist, DMXorcist and a host of other features as and when you need it and your budget can afford.


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## yardhauntjunkie (Feb 26, 2009)

Phoenix_UK said:


> Sorry, the point I was trying to make is that the VSA/DMX route is very versatile and can lead to much bigger and better things. The most common 'error' people new to this kind of control system make is to go down a route that does not and cannot grow, and all too often their past investment in hardware gets pushed aside because it has become limiting.
> 
> The truth about all the features in Exorcist and DMXorcist is that nobody uses them all, most of them were added because users wanted to do something new and needed a new feature to make it possible, and if it was feasible it got added, this is how Exorcist grows and evolves, in direct response to users needs.
> 
> ...


It is definitely a great product. To have the option sometime down the road would be nice. Do you basically use it to trigger independent scenes in a haunt?


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

Last year I used it to play an ambient background track on a loop, had a prop which triggered lights and sound on a mat switch, triggered a pneumatic ankle tickler on another mat switch, a cackling pumpkin on a third, two button switches were assigned to trigger the whine/angry features on the monster ina box, it controlled my DMX laser for the laser Vortex tunnel and a random trigger feature for the thunder lightening round the front of the house, 

I also played with using a light beam sensor to make sure that there was a constant amount of smoke in the vortex tunnel, this worked by a light beam and when there was 'too much' smoke it disrupted the beam causing the fogger to stop, and when the fog dissapated it turned the fogger back on.


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

oops knew I forgot something.... played routines on the ghost bust using a timed loop


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

Phoenix, did you make a video? I'd love to see it.


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

Terra said:


> Phoenix, did you you make a video? I'd love to see it.


over here in merry olde England we have a video production company that did mine, you may have heard of them, they are called the BBC

BBC NEWS | Wales | Hi-tech Halloween by computer


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## yardhauntjunkie (Feb 26, 2009)

Phoenix_UK said:


> over here in merry olde England we have a video production company that did mine, you may have heard of them, they are called the BBC
> 
> BBC NEWS | Wales | Hi-tech Halloween by computer


Wow you are quite lucky to have the BBC stop by.  Now I can see what you mean by having the ability to trigger individual events. I think that is a great way to go in a walk through. I think in my current situation I will be having more of a stationary show. Basically a light show on the house and then servo driven characters that come on in between. I was hoping to be able to integrate it with my Light O Rama. But, with every passing day that seems to be less of a possibility in my mind. So I think it might be time to sell the Light O Rama and go with VSA and an SSC-32. 

Now the only question becomes what do I use for my light show? Any help with that would be great. I am assuming some sort of DMX controller with spot lights.


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

So cool Phoenix! That had to have been neat to have the BBC do a special at your house. It was a great clip. So was your walk-through in your house or outside. I couldn't tell.


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## yardhauntjunkie (Feb 26, 2009)

Terra do you have any type of light show? Do you do any ambient sound?


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

No light show but that will change this year I hope _(need to still plan that out)._ I got my eXorcist box right after Halloween. 

I do have ambient music. Been working on my playlist since last Halloween. I love it so much I'm listening to it when I work on props. Basically my playlist is Midnight Syndicate/Nox Arcana with NIN, Rob Zombie, Static X and a few others to lighten it up and add a faster modern edge. Gothic music can be *too serious* sometimes.


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## mark_mco (Oct 16, 2007)

yardhauntjunkie said:


> I was hoping to be able to integrate it with my Light O Rama. But, with every passing day that seems to be less of a possibility in my mind. So I think it might be time to sell the Light O Rama and go with VSA and an SSC-32.
> 
> Now the only question becomes what do I use for my light show? Any help with that would be great. I am assuming some sort of DMX controller with spot lights.


How many Light-O-Rama controllers do you have and what model? It would also be helpful if you could come up with a list of types and quantities of lights you plan on using on your house. Have you done any sequencing in LOR yet? Like I mentioned in my previous post, you can use the LOR controllers as DMX dimmer packs so you already have the ablility to control lights through VSA with a DMX interface. Otherwise, you'll need to either purchase DMX dimmer packs for conventional spot/flood lights, or go with DMX controllable lights like those from Chauvet or other manufacturers.

Mark


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

You know, I should clarify, I'm not going to do a light show like on the front of my house. I want to have the lights in the haunt react with certain props going off to add to the drama. Like what I had outside my DMX coffin.


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## yardhauntjunkie (Feb 26, 2009)

Terra said:


> You know, I should clarify, I'm not going to do a light show like on the front of my house. I want to have the lights in the haunt react with certain props going off to add to the drama. Like what I had outside my DMX coffin.


Good clarification. I think that many people just assume a Christmas light style display. I am going more for thunder and lightning and highlight lighting of props as well. Like the music list so far too.


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## yardhauntjunkie (Feb 26, 2009)

I have done no sequencing. I thoroughly understand that aspect however. If no one can give me an inexpensive alternative to VSA and an SSC-32, I am going to sell my LOR controller still in the box. I NEED TO BE ABLE TO CONTROL SERVOS. If I can't do that it is pretty much just for Christmas and right now I don't do Christmas. I bought it before I got really interested in servo driven props. I was pretty happy with the motor driven props I already built but want to switch over to servos. So if someone can give me an inexpensive idea of how to run servos with LOR, I am all ears. 

I don't have any solid plans for lighting. I am pretty open in that respect. But, to be honest LED or incandescent floods and spots are fine by me. I know Chauvets are great but I have seen simple lighting be way more effective and stylish. I am going for a far more cartoonish and Disney style kid friendly haunt. I have never spent more then $50 in a single season and have got so many compliments its ridiculous. So it would have to be a pretty amazing over the top super duper fantastic step up for me to start shelling out thousands of dollars for Halloween(don't get me wrong this is a great hobby and I have no hesitation to spend if I can be given great reasons to do so). I am already feeling remorse for having purchased the controller because I was so proud of what I had built with such a small budget. But this year I am pretty much starting over. I am keeping my Wolf/Dog and FCG. But, everything else is going to be new. New pillars, fencing, arches, tombstones, motorized/pneumatic props and lighting.


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

Unless you need to sell the LOR to get the cash Mark is trying to say that you can use the LOR as an interface between VSA and your lights and indeed your pneumatic solenoid valves.


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## yardhauntjunkie (Feb 26, 2009)

Phoenix_UK said:


> Unless you need to sell the LOR to get the cash Mark is trying to say that you can use the LOR as an interface between VSA and your lights and indeed your pneumatic solenoid valves.


I indeed know what he is trying to say and what I am trying to say is I have no idea how to do that and need help. I thank everyone for the help, but I am obviously unable to express what I am trying to achieve. I have no intention to sell my LOR if someone can tell me how I could use it to run servos. Why would I keep it if I need to use VSA anyways? I am not trying to be a jerk I simply don't know. Any help would be appreciated.


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

LOR cant run servos, it can run lights motors and pneumatics, and to make it do that you will need an Enttec USB box, beyond that I cant help, because Ive not used the LOR, but it does claim to be usable as a DMX dimmer pack, so getting an USB box is the first thing you would need to go down that route.

You said you don't have any solid plans for lighting, well running LOR by DMX is a pretty solid option, especially since you already have the LOR

The SSC 32 is indeed an option for running your servo motors, and its probably one of the cheaper options, but using one of the DMX servo boards earlier recommended is a better option as it has far less limitations.


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## yardhauntjunkie (Feb 26, 2009)

I think for simplicity I am going to go the VSA route. LOR may or may not ever come out with their servo board. I don't want to wait until June for that anyways. It seems like for what I need right now VSA and the SSC-32 are my best bet. That way if in the future I feel I need more options I could always add the DMX servo boards you mentioned. I still think LOR would be a good bet for an X-Mas show, but I personally see no real need for it now. I got it during their recent sale and people in my area are kind of crazy about X-mas light shows so I actually stand to make a little profit on it.


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

I'm sorry but I find it hard to understand, I'm sure you know what you have in mind, but you are asking questions like "Now the only question becomes what do I use for my light show? Any help with that would be great. I am assuming some sort of DMX controller with spot lights.", but you are not listening to the answers


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## yardhauntjunkie (Feb 26, 2009)

Phoenix_UK said:


> I'm sorry but I find it hard to understand, I'm sure you know what you have in mind, but you are asking questions like "Now the only question becomes what do I use for my light show? Any help with that would be great. I am assuming some sort of DMX controller with spot lights.", but you are not listening to the answers


I am very appreciative of all the help that people have given me on this forum. I have been trying to be very polite and beat around the bush so I don't step on any toes in here. I like being a member of this forum and sharing and learning new things. I don't want to make any enemies so I have been trying to say things in a certain way. That is obviously not working. So I will just come out and say exactly what I am trying to achieve in hopes that someone can help. Yes I can afford to buy the things that have been suggested. But, it is more then I and most likely other yard haunters need. I had been hoping that instead of just saying the same expensive solutions over and over again someone might come up with alternative solutions.


I personally think what people have helped come up with so far would be a fairly economical way of having some talking animitronic like props. VSA $60, SSC-32 $40, 15-18 servos $14-$76 apiece. Plus from what has been discussed this option seems to make it easy to add more options at a later date if so warranted. Like if you wanted individual scenes triggered by sensors.

Now what I need is an INEXPENSIVE light controller solution that would work with a VSA show. I just want to highlight certain props with small spots or floods. I don't need over the top can lighting or stage lighting. It would be cool if they dimmed and danced to music at different parts of the show. I may also want to simulate lightning. I appreciate all the help. I am just looking for specific solutions to specific problems and I am not relating those well via my wording. I think there might be a lot of other people out there that might benefit if people can help come up with a more economical way of doing all this so I greatly appreciate all the help.


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

*Yardhauntjunkie,* Read my following post before you read this post first. I thought about it later and I may have come up with a solution for you....... 




Well, you have run into the same problem I did last year. As you've seen from my DMX coffin, I was able to do what you are looking to do but the big problem was having a way to trigger the routine other than literally stand next to my laptop and hit the start _(enter) _key_._ Pain-in-the-behind! From my research, there isn't a way to have a VSA routine triggered from something other than your computer without a product like eXorcist. _(I think you can do stand-alone controllers but they will not tie together different prop routines)._

So, in my desperation, I used a wireless mouse hanging around my neck to trigger the coffin. That worked okay but I could only be, at most, 3 feet away from the computer. If I had gotten eXorcist, I would have had a IR remote. EASY! Or I could have plugged in a trigger mat, motion sensor, etc. into the eXorcist box.

Now, if you are running only one routine, then there are other ways like controllers that store your program. But, if you want to run several props, each with VSA routines, then you really need a way to run several VSA routines on your computer. That's where DMXorcist comes in. _(DMXorcist is another version of the eXorcist software, it uses the same hardware eXorcist uses)._

From what I gathered_ (I could be wrong),_ what we are trying to do _(use VSA/DMX for several props)_ is a very new field in haunting. Haunting already is a niche field and people using VSA is an even smaller niche. People using several VSA props is even more unique and then, people using DMX and several VSA routines is just flat out _*NEW*_. So, as I learned, there is only one solution for that. Now, because you have only one guy who has spent a lot of time and R&D in offering a solution, he wants to make it financially worth it. I don't blame him.

Now, if more and more people get into this then there will be competition and the prices will go down. But, for now, these are the only options that I know of. Darn


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

OK, I may have come up with a solution for you to use your props and lights _(flood and/or DMX LEDS)_ in one VSA routine. Now for your props I am assuming they are controlled with a regular AC plug. Okay, here's a graph I made:










So, starting at the left: your computer with VSA loaded into it. Out of the USB port, you have the ENTTEC Open USB. From that you have the beginning of your DMX chain. 

Now, the DMX cable goes into a 4-channel DMX relay. Out of the four channels you can control a prop, a flood light, a rope light and a strobe light or any combo thereof. You could also get bigger relays, like a 16-channel. 

Continuing along your DMX cable, you can go into a DMX LED light. You can chain as many more DMX lights you want. 

Continuing along the DMX cable you can put in another 4-channel DMX relay and do that same plug-ins as before. 

Now, you can get the gist of what I'm doing here. You can go on and on until you use up your 512 DMX addresses. At the end is where you place your DMX terminator. This tells the DMX that it has reached the end.

Now, you can program your VSA routine to tell what lights and props go on when you want them to. It would be one show. Then, you can make different VSA routines for different shows. But, you can have one show at a time.

Does that makes sense?


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## yardhauntjunkie (Feb 26, 2009)

Terra said:


> OK, I may have come up with a solution for you to use your props and lights _(flood and/or DMX LEDS)_ in one VSA routine. Now for your props I am assuming they are controlled with a regular AC plug. Okay, here's a graph I made:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It totally makes sense. Thanks a bunch. I have been chatting with nbviper and he has a solution that I might be able to use. You and I are in search of similar setups but yours is a tad bit different. I kind of get the feeling you(Terra) are trying to have different scenes or props being triggered in different areas as people walk through. 

I want mine to be one big diorama. Basically you stand in front of the house and watch a show. Kind of like the yard haunt, House on Haunted Hill outside of L.A. One prop would tell a story, then another, then another and so on. I would just keep looping the routine with maybe a light show to music in between for ambiance. What nbviper suggested is using his program that allows you to take multiple VSA routines and put them in a play list that you can loop.

I do agree that this is something that doesn't seem to be too widely available to research so I am glad that there are so many helpful people here to give thoughts and criticisms. Your(Terra) diagram of the lighting layout is pretty much what I have intended. I am unfamiliar with DMX controllers so I am not sure what exactly I will be needing in that respect so help along those lines would be greatly appreciated. 

Still bummed that as of this time there is no Light O Rama servo board.  That might streamline things in my particular scenario. But, what I have learned is that it might limit further expansion into something like what you(Terra) have planned. Which is something I too might want to end up doing, so I think it is better to go the VSA route anyways. Thanks again everyone!


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## mark_mco (Oct 16, 2007)

yardhauntjunkie said:


> I am very appreciative of all the help that people have given me on this forum. I have been trying to be very polite and beat around the bush so I don't step on any toes in here. I like being a member of this forum and sharing and learning new things. I don't want to make any enemies so I have been trying to say things in a certain way. That is obviously not working. So I will just come out and say exactly what I am trying to achieve in hopes that someone can help. Yes I can afford to buy the things that have been suggested. But, it is more then I and most likely other yard haunters need. I had been hoping that instead of just saying the same expensive solutions over and over again someone might come up with alternative solutions.
> 
> 
> I personally think what people have helped come up with so far would be a fairly economical way of having some talking animitronic like props. VSA $60, SSC-32 $40, 15-18 servos $14-$76 apiece. Plus from what has been discussed this option seems to make it easy to add more options at a later date if so warranted. Like if you wanted individual scenes triggered by sensors.
> ...


I understand your frustration, but I hope you can understand mine as well as others that have posted suggestions. This is why I asked you for a specific list of the number and type of lights, props etc. For example, If you have a dozen or so lights you need to control individually, you will probaly need to spend at least $200 for DMX dimmer packs (if you were to go the DMX route). This is the only reason I suggested the LOR controller as a dimmer pack since you already own it. If you aren't going to use DMX, I'm not sure what youwould use to control incadescent lighting though VSA. Perhaps others will offer a suggestion.
As far as servo control, this is the first post where you have mentioned an actual number of servos. You'll also need a pretty hefty 5 volt supply for 18 servos. And you should probaly come up with a rough sketch of the layout for these props since it may be more efficient having 2 servo boards so you don't have to run all of the 3 conductor servo cable for extended distances.
Everyone here is always willing to help you with suggestions, but if really helps us when we have as much information as possible including an approximate budget instead of phrases like "as frugally as possible" or "INEXPENSIVE". What is inexpensive to one person may seem outrageous to another.
I hope you don't take this post the wrong way - I certainly don't mean to criticize you. Everyone has to start somewhere, and this forum is a great learning tool for everyone. And one more suggestion. Threads like this would probaly be better suited for the "Props" sub-forum. It might get more visibility as some users like myself tend to watch that section primarily.

Mark


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## yardhauntjunkie (Feb 26, 2009)

I don't take anything the wrong way. If I wanted specific people's advice I would PM them. I want to find any available solution, from anyone. To be honest I had already asked a few members their opinions before I started this thread. What we came up with was to get VSA, buy an SSC-32 and some servos. This is mainly spawned by that dragon Lucy. If you look on this forum there are hundreds of posts, threads and comments about skulls, 3 axis skulls, 2 axis skulls, Scary Terry Skulls....... The list goes on and on. All I am trying to do is open up the discussion to servo control for beginners who don't necessarily want to go the skull route. 

This thread wouldn't even be here if the people at LOR had a servo board. I would have bought that and been on my way. So as far as things being inexpensive, all I have to say is that it isn't exactly cheap to have tons of LOR controllers. I was basically implying cheaper then that. And I am pretty sure we all know how much LOR controller and software are. All I am trying to do now is discuss different options. 

You bring up a great point that might have been over looked had this thread not gone this route. If I have 5 or 6 props with 3 or 4 servos each would I be better off having each one of them have their own servo control board? I know there are some that control 8 servos. Is there other options then that? 

As far as lighting I have said that I have none and that I would like to have just simple spots and or floods. I don't need can lighting or stage lighting, . Plus maybe a lightning effect.


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## MonkeyBasic (Aug 28, 2007)

I use controller boards that handle only 8 servos, specifically by Pololu. I also give each controller a dedicated power supply.

Pololu - RC Servo Controllers


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## mark_mco (Oct 16, 2007)

yardhauntjunkie said:


> So as far as things being inexpensive, all I have to say is that it isn't exactly cheap to have tons of LOR controllers. I was basically implying cheaper then that. And I am pretty sure we all know how much LOR controller and software are. All I am trying to do now is discuss different options.


Even in the LOR product, there is quite a range of prices. I don't know what model of controller you have, but their most expensive box - 1602W is normally $420 first the first box, software and interface cable and $330 for additional units. But the CTB16PC which has the same functionallity, can be picked up for $206 (controller only) for a unit requiring minimal assembly. And during the LOR sales, they can be $20-$30 less. This isn't a bad price for a 16 channel unit. And as far as needing "tons of them", I have seen some pretty impressive display that use 32 channels or less.
As far as LOR and servos, whenever the DIO board does get released, I can assure you it will be much more expensive than one of the previously mentioned servo controllers. 

Mark


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## yardhauntjunkie (Feb 26, 2009)

nbviper said:


> I use controller boards that handle only 8 servos, specifically by Pololu. I also give each controller a dedicated power supply.
> 
> Pololu - RC Servo Controllers


Perfect. Thank you. I think that is a great option. In my particular case none of the props would have ever been going at the same time so I was just assuming that I would be OK on power. But, then the problem of having too long of run for the servo cables came up. This solves both of those problems and affords me the ability to have more servos in each of the props. What I have kept quiet until now is that some of the props will have servos and air cylinders. I wanted to hash out the servo control before I opened up another can of worms.


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## MonkeyBasic (Aug 28, 2007)

Got your PM, in particular I use: Pololu - Pololu Serial 8-Servo Controller (partial kit)

or if you don't want to solder: Pololu - Pololu Serial 8-Servo Controller (assembled)

Since I'm using an old laptop, I actually have a serial port. Then I just bought some cheap USB->Serial adapters for additional controllers.


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## mark_mco (Oct 16, 2007)

yardhauntjunkie said:


> Perfect. Thank you. I think that is a great option. In my particular case none of the props would have ever been going at the same time so I was just assuming that I would be OK on power. But, then the problem of having too long of run for the servo cables came up. This solves both of those problems and affords me the ability to have more servos in each of the props. What I have kept quiet until now is that some of the props will have servos and air cylinders. I wanted to hash out the servo control before I opened up another can of worms.


If you look back at my original reply on the first page, one of the servo controllers I suggested was the Pololu board. But you seemed to be determined to use the SSC-32 for some reason. As far as the air cylinders, you'll need some type of relay to control the solenoid valves. I know I've been waving the flag for DMX in this thread, but this is yet another application where DMX control would be advantageous. You can utilize DMX relay packs for solenoids, dimmer packs for the lights and DMX servo boards for the props with servos. Terra's sketch is a good overview - just add DMX servo board(s) in the chain and add the air cylylinder solenoid valves off of the relays/dimmer packs. It may sound complicated at first, but it the end it is easier in my opinion since you only have one interface to deal with on the computer (the Enttec DMX adapter) and one cable running from the PC to the props. The DMX cable is then daisy-chained to each successive controller. Take a look at these threads for more info on DMX control:
DMX Vampire in Coffin
DMX Haunt Control System

Mark


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

yardhauntjunkie said:


> .... I kind of get the feeling you(Terra) are trying to have different scenes or props being triggered in different areas as people walk through.
> 
> I want mine to be one big diorama. Basically you stand in front of the house and watch a show. Kind of like the yard haunt, House on Haunted Hill outside of L.A. One prop would tell a story, then another, then another and so on. I would just keep looping the routine with maybe a light show to music in between for ambiance. What nbviper suggested is using his program that allows you to take multiple VSA routines and put them in a play list that you can loop.
> 
> .... Your(Terra) diagram of the lighting layout is pretty much what I have intended. I am unfamiliar with DMX controllers so I am not sure what exactly I will be needing in that respect so help along those lines would be greatly appreciated....


The plan that I drew up for you should work great for the '_diorama_' that you are talking about. You are right about mine being different props triggered at different times _(by me)_ because mine is a walk-through haunt that will scare the ToTs at different times. That is why I need DMXorcist.

Now I want to explain the DMX relay/dimmer on a basic level: Think of a DMX relay/dimmer as an interface between items that are normally plugged into the wall and your VSA program using DMX signals. If you plug a prop that is usually plugged into a wall into the DMX relay/dimmer you now can command that prop through a DMX signal. Cool, huh?

Here's a picture of a typical DMX relay/dimmer:










The plugs that you see are 2 for each channel - 4 channels. So, instead of plugging your prop into the wall, you plug it into a channel on the DMX relay/dimmer. In VSA, you had already given that channel a DMX address. Now, when you run your VSA program, when the program says that it wants the prop to turn on, it will. When you want it to turn off, it will. All through a DMX signal from your computer. Super-duper cool  

Now, if you plugged in a flood light into one of the channels on the DMX relay/dimmer, you can *also* tell it to turn on and turn off. But, the beauty of DMX is that you can also tell it to dim or brighten as well. heh.

So, again, with a DMX relay/dimmer you can control anything that normally gets plugged into the wall with DMX commands. yeah baby!

BY the way, the DMX relay/dimmer packs all have a DMX IN and DMX OUT so that is how your DMX daisy chain continues down the line.


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## yardhauntjunkie (Feb 26, 2009)

Terra said:


> The plan that I drew up for you should work great for the '_diorama_' that you are talking about. You are right about mine being different props triggered at different times _(by me)_ because mine is a walk-through haunt that will scare the ToTs at different times. That is why I need DMXorcist.


I think that is the upside to going with VSA over LOR is that if at some point I decide to go back to a walk through type yard haunt I could have the ability to add something that could control them independently. You mentioned 16 channel controllers. Were those DMX as well? I have not come across those in my searching.


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

You know, I may have been mistaken about the 16 channel DMX relay. I had seen literature mentioning 16 channels but in looking on the net that may have been DMX* controllers* not *relay/dimmers* mentioning that. Can anybody confirm?

By the way, I have been referring to DMX _*relay/dimmers*_. You keep talking about DMX *controllers*. Those are two different things. The relay has _*some*_ controlling features but we don't use those _(they are turned off)_ in the applications we are talking about. The VSA program does the controlling. The DMX relay/dimmer is just used as an interface.

DMX *controllers* could take the place of VSA but I don't think it has the features that we need.

Look at my picture of the the DMX/relay. Notice where it shows two MODES that it has to operate. See where it says DMX and underneath it says Chase? You decide which MODE you want to use on the dimmer/relay. Either stand-alone chase_ (like a controller)_ or DMX _(like an interface). _

The chase feature is very limited though. It does things like chase lights and other DJ things with lights_ (16 programs)._ But, that is not useful for what we need it for, controlling props or creating a unique haunt light show. That's why VSA is so useful.


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## mark_mco (Oct 16, 2007)

Terra said:


> You know, I may have been mistaken about the 16 channel DMX relay. I had seen literature mentioning 16 channels but in looking on the net that may have been DMX* controllers* not *relay/dimmers* mentioning that. Can anybody confirm?
> 
> By the way, I have been referring to DMX _*relay/dimmers*_. You keep talking about DMX *controllers*. Those are two different things. The relay has _*some*_ controlling features but we don't use those _(they are turned off)_ in the applications we are talking about. The VSA program does the controlling. The DMX relay/dimmer is just used as an interface.
> 
> ...


I don't think yardhauntjunkie really needs a 16 channel relay/dimmer pack. He would probably be better off with multiple 4 channel packs as you illustrated in your sketch. This is why I asked him in a previous post to come up with some rough sketch of his layout which should include the following:

Approximate yard dimensions
Lights - incadescent flood/spot or DMX controllable
Props - Number of servos and/or cylinders for each
This would enable us to offer some more specific recommendations. Otherwise, all of the cables will have to be home-runned back to the single controller which defeats one of the main advantages of DMX.


Mark


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

Yeah, I think so too. Also my plan is assuming there is only one servo or crank motor in each prop. If there are several servos in each prop, it would complicate things. It would work but you would have to use a channel for each of the servos.


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## yardhauntjunkie (Feb 26, 2009)

Well I have appreciated all the help that was given here and through PM. I have decided what route I am going to take. I am going to probably keep my LOR. I will probably use it for ambient music and lighting of tombstones, columns, arches, props, and possibly to create some sort of thunder and lightning effect. If LOR ever releases the servo board I might give that a shot. Other then that I am just going to continue to build my motorized props as I have in the past. I am amazed and awed at what the computer guys can come up with and create. However I am not a computer guy, I am a junk guy and I like creating stuff out the things I scrounge. I think it means more to me personally to create it myself, just as it probably does to someone that writes their own code and develops their own software programs or controllers. In the end I think that is what matters. Each person has their own thing that makes them happy. Building pops is what makes me happy, no matter how elaborate or how simple they are. I am still going to research servos and servo control and seek advice from those willing to impart their wisdom. Maybe someday I will get inspired to tackle a project. Thanks again for all the wonderful suggestions.


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## dman776 (May 1, 2009)

Here is a link an 8 channel servo controller that is compatible with your LOR system...
Servo8 Controller


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## yardhauntjunkie (Feb 26, 2009)

It says it s compatible with D-Light , but I didn't see anywhere where it said it is compatible with LOR. That would be awesome if it is. Have you used it with LOR? Or has anyone used this with LOR?


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## dman776 (May 1, 2009)

Yes. All D-light controllers are compatible with lor software as well as Aurora software.


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## yardhauntjunkie (Feb 26, 2009)

Not that I don't trust you, but have you or anyone else actually used it with LOR?


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## dman776 (May 1, 2009)

No problem. It absolutely works with lor. I am a co-founder of D-light. But, you can research it yourself on our forums. We have many customers who use our controllers with lor software.


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## yardhauntjunkie (Feb 26, 2009)

Cool. That board would be a big help for me. Thanks for the info!


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## dman776 (May 1, 2009)

By the way, you can also use our Servo8 with VSA software (MiniSSC protocol).

Thanks


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