# dmx haunt control system.



## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

this is going to be the home of my control system this year and how it's built and programed as i go along, within a day or 2 i should have the design up followed by pictures of what i have so far and as the system evolves.


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## nOrTHeRn TouCh (Feb 24, 2006)

Right on been looking fo a good how to on this subject. I just finished my new sound set up for my haunt and have been looking at different ways to control my haunt and DmX has really interested me here a pic of the sound system I built Actually am building 3 smaller forms of this but with no to portions and only a 3 car deck set-up...


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

guitarist155 said:


> this is going to be the home of my control system this year and how it's built and programed as i go along, within a day or 2 i should have the design up followed by pictures of what i have so far and as the system evolves.


Cool. Is this the thread that will also include the coffin build? Or, I could start that one in another thread? What do you think?


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

i think we will do a different thread for the coffins


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## nOrTHeRn TouCh (Feb 24, 2006)

hey guiatarist155 you got any pics yet?? or updates of what you got done???


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

some should be up by tonight


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

ok, first things first. if you don't know what dmx is here is a good description DMX512-A - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 

The dmx chain starts with a controller, you can use a simple stand-alone controller or a computer usb interface. while the stand-alone my seem cheaper, you will only get the functions that come with the controller and most are limited on the number of channels. the system i prefer is a usb interface, for a basic controller you can get a enttec open dmx for $60 new and lighting control software online for free. for more advanced control i prefer brookshire's VSA and VSA Console, it will give you better programing and better software control when combined with a trigger controller. 




now you will need something to control.
the most simple form is a dmx dimmer/relay pack, the dimmer/relay allows you to dim and or switch on and off 120/240v these can be used to control 120v relays for low voltage control. by plugging the relay into one of the channels on the relay pack.

the list of dmx devices is a long one, from led color changing lights to servo controllers, fog machines, etc.


the system i am building is an advanced dmx system using vsa, exorcist, enttec open dmx, a dmx servo controller, multiple relay packs and dmx-rgb-led lights. 

i am also using this to control 3-4 fog machines, a 3-axis skull, and many pneumatic props.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

*the plan.*

ok here is the plan. multiple boxes housing 2 chains: the trigger chain and the dmx chain. 

the trigger chain will start with a main box housing the exorcist, dmx interface, usb hub, connectors and break out cables. i will be connecting the exorcist trigger contacts to panel mount momentary switches on the front of the box (as the exorcist will be concealed) then to 2 cat 5 cables ( 4 pairs each ) connected to panel mount neutrik ethercon jacks ( rugged pro ethernet jacks ) then over cat 5 cables to another box with 2 ethercon jacks in to 2 wireless RF relay boards (one for each remote ) then contenu out 2 ethercon connectors over cat 5 to 2 four 120v relay boxes which will convert 120v from the motion sensors into dry contact closures for the exorcist. 
here is my block diagram ( sorry for the scan ) http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc4/guitarist155/control system/triggerchain.jpg


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

Sounds like a good plan, however, here are a few pointers that will help reduce stress and tears at a later date.

In your control box do your utmost to separate Signal components from power components...AC power of any kind is a sure way of inducing noise in a signal cable, especially input signal cables.

In your cable routing NEVER put a signal cable near a power cable, My method is to run power down the left side of the paths and signals down the right, where I have an option I run power up high and signals down low, the only place power and signal ever come within 12" of each other is when they terminate at a control component.

NEVER let a power cable cross over a signal cable.

If all else fails learn of to use timers in Exorcist to create a simple noise filter.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

ok here are some pictures of my solenoid control box, still need to mount, wire and plumb. click on picture for parts

Halloween Forum - guitarist155's Album: control system


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## Kammo (Aug 2, 2008)

I have plans to make a controller box simular to this one for all my buttons and controls. Every year I am a 8 1/2 foot tall grim reaper. I have a large chair that I made (its on my website) and I have many air controlled props this year so I figured I would construct a fake orgen that I can put all my buttons on and nobody else can see them.
I would set on my chair with the orgen in front of me and I would look like im playing it and music will be playing out of a large speaker inside of it. But all my controls would be at my finger tips and I could also see everything that is going on.
I will put up some pics when I get this started...


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

Kammo said:


> I have plans to make a controller box simular to this one for all my buttons and controls. Every year I am a 8 1/2 foot tall grim reaper. I have a large chair that I made (its on my website) and I have many air controlled props this year so I figured I would construct a fake orgen that I can put all my buttons on and nobody else can see them.
> I would set on my chair with the orgen in front of me and I would look like im playing it and music will be playing out of a large speaker inside of it. But all my controls would be at my finger tips and I could also see everything that is going on.
> I will put up some pics when I get this started...


great idea, you could even get a real organ that didn't work, strip out the insides and use the key contacts as the triggers so that when you pressed a key it would trigger a prop. hmmm


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

ok here is the master rack box and controllers, i still have to mount them and wire everything to panel mount jacks on the front and add the manual trigger switches on the front panel.


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

Kammo said:


> I have plans to make a controller box simular to this one for all my buttons and controls. Every year I am a 8 1/2 foot tall grim reaper. I have a large chair that I made (its on my website) and I have many air controlled props this year so I figured I would construct a fake orgen that I can put all my buttons on and nobody else can see them.
> I would set on my chair with the orgen in front of me and I would look like im playing it and music will be playing out of a large speaker inside of it. But all my controls would be at my finger tips and I could also see everything that is going on.
> I will put up some pics when I get this started...


Last year I built this as a controls cabinet

http://www.halloweenforum.com/halloween-props/63669-chest-tomb-corpse-bride.html

Inside there was a shelf and it housed a couple of foggers, computer, PA system and mixing desk


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## Kammo (Aug 2, 2008)

WOW guitarist155 that is awesome! So with this you will be able to control everything from like say a laptop?
That would be perfect if I could do that.. then I could label all my props and just click away!
I may have to check into that....


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

yes, the system i am building will control everything in my haunt from lights to fog, sound and props and can be triggered in a number of ways, manually or automatically the down side is the start up cost but in the long run it's cheaper as i don't have to get a controller, soundplayer, light controller, etc for each prop,


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## Kammo (Aug 2, 2008)

Well, upside to me getting a system like this is im a Dj and can use it for work as well.... Im gonna see if I can find a good deal on one of these!
THANKS ALOT!!!

CHa Ching... company write off for halloween.... LOL


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

That is looking good! What is the box that the Enttech and exorcist is plugged into?


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

it's a usb hub so that i can run just one usb cable to the box for both devices, it also provides power to them so that i can run multiple usb devices off of one usb port. it's should not be needed if you are connecting the devices directly to your computer and your computer has 2 available usb ports. however if you computer gives you a message that says " usb port's power exceeded" then you will need a *powered* usb hub as the devices are pulling more power than your computer can provide. don't worry though if you need one they are available almost everywhere and are not expensive. you might even have one in a different form and not know it


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

Oh, thank you for that explanation. That helps clear the fog a lot.

I also just remembered that you told me I have to get a DMX terminator. Where did you get yours?


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

i have not gotten mine yet but i will get it from bhphotovideo as they are a very trusted site. here's the link Hosa Technology | DMX 3 Pin Terminator | DMT-414 | B&H Photo


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## Kammo (Aug 2, 2008)

what DMX controller did you get guitarist155? Do you have a link for it?


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

i am using a usb interface for my computer and VSA for software ENTTEC - OPENDMXUSB 

the open dmx is the only one that is currently supported by skulltronix for exorcist triggering. 

there are alot of free lighting programs out there that work with the open dmx also for dj work and concert lighting. 
like freestyler but you will need a computer to run it. 

you can use a standalone dmx controller but you wont have the ability to program things like the 3 axis skull. 

keep in mind the system i am using would cost around $500 *to enter*

exorcist $300
vsa $55
open dmx $60
relay pack $60
vsa console $15
+ cables and adapters


i would suggest the open dmx and vsa and then freestyler for dj lighting as most of the dj world is now on a laptop anyway. vsa and the open dmx would run you about $120 and then add what ever you want to control


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

Thank you  I'll order it tomorrow.
I owe you big for all the help you've given me.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

not a problem, i really enjoy working with this stuff. i just try not to think about the price of this hobby  but hey when i build my own disney world all this stuff will come in handy right?


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

Ebay is a good source for DMX hardware, however if you know the basics of using a soldering iron then its best/cheapest to make your own terminators by getting a male XLR plug (with pins) and soldering a 120 ohm Resistor across pins 2 and 3.

Other things that are useful to keep in your DMX arsenal are 5 pin to 3 pin converters in both directions and crossovers which swap over the wires to pins 2 and 3.

The next thing that occurs to people is making their own DMX cables, and this can be where trouble starts, as 99% of problems with DMX can often be traced to cables, and its essential that they follow the rules of being 120 ohm twisted pair cable as per the RS425 specification.... BEWARE OF MICROPHONE CABLES, these look exactly the same as a 3 pin DMX cable, strictly speaking DMX cables should have 5 pin connectors but this part of the standard has been completely ignored by everyone!

If you have any devices that need a crossover connector them make sure you add a label to it to identify this, you can make a crossover cable which will swap the pins over in the cable, BUT MAKE SURE YOU MARK IT, keep track of where you have crossovers in your network as you will need to cross back to use DMX devices that wont accept a crossover signal


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

good advice phoenix, i was thinking about making my own terminator but i can just buy this one for 8 and have one less thing to solder i intend to make me own cables out of stranded cat 5. i am wondering what would be the best pin out for this, i don't know if i should use one conductor per pin or do 3 conductors on pins 1 and 2 and then 2 conductors on pin 3. 

i intend to use 5 pin but all of the equipment i am getting uses 3-pin so i will have to change out all of the jacks so this will have to wait until next year.


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

I believe cat5 is 110 ohm, but I have made my own cables out of cat5, and have got away with it so far.

I tend to use any one of the twisted pairs for pins 2 and 3 another for 4 and 5 if you are using 5 pin and then another twisted pair for pin 1.

Its important that 2/3 and 4/5 share a twisted pair as its this that helps eliminate the effects of noise


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

Two questions:

*Guitarist 155*, what relay pack did you get? I got a Matrix DMX for $100.

*Phoenix,* In what situation would you need a crossover?


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

i believe in the dmx standards it says you can use cat 5, i know alot of installers use it for dmx pull throughs.


terra i am going to get these 4 CH Digital DMX Dimmer Pack stage lighting light - eBay (item 370073334430 end time Aug-05-08 20:01:33 PDT)

they will usually accept an offer of $48 and have good feedback. the one you got is great i just need three of them so i have to go cheaper i am really hoping it will be quality.


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

in simple terms....

The DMX signal works by sending pulses down the DMX wire (number 2 pin) which a processor in the DMX divice decodes into instructions, typically to send a number like 99 the pulse pattern would look like 01100011.

To improve the security of the signal it also sends an inverted pulse pattern down the 3 pin which would look like 10011100, ie the inverse of the pin 2 pattern, and because of this the processor can identify noisy signals and discard them.

However, some manufacturers of DMX devices have in their wisdom swapped over the 2 and 3 pins (Martin is an example of this) such that their devices cant understand regular DMX, and you must use a crossover to correct the problem.

Because of this setting up a DMX network can get a little frustrating, and I carry a crossover connector so I can quickly identify crossover devices, once Ive identified a crossover device I either fit it with crossover connectors, rewire it, or make a couple of crossover cables for it.


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

Oh, well I'm glad I asked. It would be damn frustrating to set-up my DMX system expecting it to work and it doesn't and I wouldn't have a clue as to why. 
Thanks for the explanation! It will probably keep me from tearing out my hair.


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

guitarist155 said:


> i believe in the dmx standards it says you can use cat 5, i know alot of installers use it for dmx pull throughs.



Yup, you are correct, I missed that part of the standard.... makes me feel a lot happier now with all my home made cat 5 DMX cables


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

While I think about it, another DMX gotchya is VSA itself.... standard DMX has 512 available addresses numbered from 1 to 512, however VSA uses addresses 0 to 511.... so, if you set your device to channel 100, you need to set VSA to 99 in order to communicate with it.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

Phoenix_UK said:


> While I think about it, another DMX gotchya is VSA itself.... standard DMX has 512 available addresses numbered from 1 to 512, however VSA uses addresses 0 to 511.... so, if you set your device to channel 100, you need to set VSA to 99 in order to communicate with it.


lol i love it  inverted dmx signal, addresses that are one off. you would think these companies would understand the term ''standard'' but i guess dmx512 does give them a little play room


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## Kammo (Aug 2, 2008)

what do you think of this one guitarist155?
I mean for the price and all, yeah it don't have many channels but would this work for the beginner?

Elation SDC6 6 Channel Simple DMX Controller - DMX Lighting Controllers - Effects Lighting Controllers - Lighting Control - Lighting - PSSL.com


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

Thats a control desk, its basically 6 dimmer switches that will generate DMX signals to control 6 DMX channels, it does not really fit with this project.

Unless you really have a need for a simple dimming setup that I would avoid this unit, as just one bank of RGB lights uses 4 channels, it may be of use as a tester unit, but for most purposes its way too small.

IF you have this limited budget and want a manual or semi manual setup then I would recommend buying the Enttec Open USB widget and running Freestyler on your PC


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

i agree with phoenix, as far as standalone controllers you would need at least one like this Elation DMX Operator 192 Intelligent Lighting Controller but at 250 it is still very limited and would be better to just get a open dmx usb and vsa or freestyler. if you don't have a laptop to run it i would highly suggest saving up and getting one first they are cheap now at around 300 and well worth the investment. remember if you can't afford what you need right now just keep saving and wait alittle while, it is better to wait and get what you need than to have something you will out grow very quickly.


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## Kammo (Aug 2, 2008)

Yeah that makes since... Think thats what ill do.. Thank you guys!


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## Skeleton Jay (Aug 12, 2008)

Guitarist, I'm playing with this whole idea of DMX and relays to control (don't laugh) a washing machine relay for an air prop (has worked well in the past with a motion sensor) and a relay for the fog actuator. Now, I am also into Christmas decorating and have a thing for the LOR units to control 16 channels. Do you think I can run the LOR with VSA and forego the Dimmer? I don't quite get the dimmer. I am looking at the one you got. I see the 8 plugs but listed as 4 channels. Does that mean you can control two plugged devices on one channel for each set of 4 or is there a way to control all 8 independantly?


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

that is exactly what happens there are only 4 ch but each ch has 2 plugs so you can only control 4 independently, but at only 50ea you can get 16ch for about $200 
i am not sure about LOR i think the dmx converter is only for LOR to control dmx and not dmx controlling LOR. also the dmx adapter is $260 with the relay packs you would need to get some outdoor enclosures at about $10-20 ea to weather proof them but dmx line can run farther than the LOR to connect to the computer and you can place the relay packs where you need them, the problem i see with LOR is if you have a 16ch box you have to run extension cords to the box from all of your lights. with individual relay packs you can have 16ch with 4ch per spot so you could really cut down on the cords.


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## Kammo (Aug 2, 2008)

Oh you had said it would be better to run vsa on a laptop... Well I have 3 P4 3gig laptops all running 1 gig of memory and 100 gigs of HD space.. also 1 P3 2gig laptop running 1 gig of memory and 20 gigs of HD space... So the laptop thing, not a problem. 

So If I were to run by way of the laptop to control all my lights and such, what "ALL" would I need to do that?

Also, If I wanted to use this program and hardware to run lets say 3 axes skulls and pneumatic cylinders air valves, lights and fog, what would I need?

Is it possible with this program to make scenes? I would like to fade in a light over my 3 witches while all the other yard lights fade out and have the sound come on with the witches chants and have the fog blow out of the cauldron on que and the lights under the cauldron get brighter at points and such.. and after its all over the spot light fade off on the witches and the yard lights come back on... Is this possible with VSA and the dimmers?

Thanks alot guys, your a BIG help!!!


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

yup.... all that is possible over a DMX network using VSA

For controlling valves lights fog etc, you would use DMX Relays just google DMX relays or a DEMUX plus regular relays

for fades etc use either DMX dimmable lights or dimmer packs

for servos use a DMX servo control board.... I thoroughly recommend the SkullTronix BoC from SkullTronix (yes I have a bias but its still the best).

You would use VSA to program your synchs, scenes fades etc

And by tying the whole lot together with DMXorcist you get to control the whole lot over a single DMX network from a single computer.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

you would need vsa, an enttec open dmx interface, and relay packs. if you dont mind using ebay here are some dimmer/relay packs for dmx ( make them an offer cheaper ) 4 CH Digital DMX Dimmer Pack stage lighting light - eBay (item 350090772135 end time Aug-27-08 16:01:34 PDT)

you would then connect the lights into the dimmer packs to have vsa dim and turn on and off the lights, for fog you use a 120v relay connected to the fog controller then plug the relay into the relay pack so that it triggers the fog when that channel turns on. you will also need dmx cable or make your own with xlr connectors and cat5 and a dmx terminator. 



Kammo said:


> Oh you had said it would be better to run vsa on a laptop... Well I have 3 P4 3gig laptops all running 1 gig of memory and 100 gigs of HD space.. also 1 P3 2gig laptop running 1 gig of memory and 20 gigs of HD space... So the laptop thing, not a problem.
> 
> So If I were to run by way of the laptop to control all my lights and such, what "ALL" would I need to do that?
> 
> ...


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## Skeleton Jay (Aug 12, 2008)

Hey, Guitarist, I just landed 2 of the dimmers you showed on Ebay for $40 a pop! Thanks for the heads up. I saw those a few days ago but was worried about them being so inexpensive compared to some other units. Then I saw a lot of complaints about the $120 Chauvet unit failures in conjuntion with your recommendation and ... voila! Hoping to get the dual use of Halloween and Christmas out of my stuff and you just brought me one step closer! You too, Phoenix.


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## Kammo (Aug 2, 2008)

BIG HELP GUYS!!! THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE INFO Phoenix & guitarist155...
I will be getting the things you say and let you know how I do...
Thanks again!


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

Quick Heads up, DMXorcist now supports VSA V4.0


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

got my copy of 4.0 last night


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## Kammo (Aug 2, 2008)

Hey guitarist155, do you have or would you make a detailed picture how to on the cat5 xlr cables?
I am not sure I understand the hook up on that.....

Also on this listing, Enttec Open DMX USB Interface PC Based 512CH - 70303 - eBay (item 170219267834 end time Sep-10-08 21:14:15 PDT)
there is another 5 to 3 converter, do I need that?


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

I can help you with that.

CAT 5 has 4 twisted pairs of wire, these are typically

Blue, Blue/white
Green, Green/White
Brown, Brown/White
Orange, Orange/White

regardless of whether you are using 5 pin or 3 pin XLR plugs the wiring is the same

Pin 1 is ground/Shield, CAT 5 doesnt have a connectable shield, so wire this to Blue

Pin 2/3 are the +/- signals, and its important that these share a twisted pair lets use Orange, so wire pin 2 to orange and Pin 3 to Orange/White

the actual colours you use are unimportant, just be consistent.

If you want to make a crossover cable then wire 2/3 on one plug as above, and on the other connector reverse the wiring of 2/3

If you are using 5 pin and you want to be completist about it the wire 4/5 to another twisted pair (green)

The actual colours you use are unimportant, just make sure the 2/3 and 4/5 get to share a twisted pair each


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

also if you don't already have cat 5 i strongly recommend stranded and not solid core, stranded cat 5 is more flexible and not as susceptible to shorts in the wire. also i really like monoprice for cables they are good quality and the cheapest i have found. you can get them in many colors and lengths but here is a stranded 50ft black for under $5 just cut the ends off and solder on the xlrs. as for which xlrs i use ether neutrik or american dj like these American DJ 3-Pin Male - Female XLR Connectors Digital Cables at Music123. 

as for the adapter you will need a 5pin to 3 pin i use this one American DJ 5-Pin Male XLR to 3-Pin Female XLR Turnaround Digital Cables at Music123.

you could run 5 pin cable BUT most of the non pro level gear you run into will use 3pin and you would need an adapter for most things so i would run 3 pin cables


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## Kammo (Aug 2, 2008)

Thank you Phoenix_UK, I will copy and save what you put up there to see If I can figure it out. I wish I had something with pictures though, I work better by visual instructions.. but I will give it a shot...

Just so you know what im gonna be using so U know what I am gonna need.
I have VSA, gonna build a PC with a P4 2.4gig with 512mg memory and 20 gig JD in it. I can mount whatever I need in the computer case to be run right out of there.

Will get 3 or 4 of these...
4 CH Digital DMX Dimmer Pack stage lighting light - eBay (item 140257787036 end time Aug-19-08 09:42:40 PDT)
4 CH Digital DMX Dimmer Pack stage lighting light - eBay (item 140257787036 end time Aug-19-08 09:42:40 PDT)

Will get 1 of these... 
Enttec Open DMX USB Interface PC Based 512CH - 70303 - eBay (item 170219267834 end time Sep-10-08 21:14:15 PDT)
Enttec Open DMX USB Interface PC Based 512CH - 70303

Also have a 25' usb to usb cable..

So is this the CAT5 I need guitarist? For only $3.96 each when QTY 50+ purchased - 50FT 350MHz UTP Cat5e RJ45 Network Cable - Black | Cat5e Straight Cable
For only $3.96 each when QTY 50+ purchased - 50FT 350MHz UTP Cat5e RJ45 Network Cable - Black | Cat5e Straight Cable

And this is going to go from my computer to the dimmers correct?
So if that is right I will need the same amount of CAT5 cables as I do dimmers right?

How many terminators do I need?...Hosa 3 Pin DMX Terminator DMT-414 - eBay (item 220270593313 end time Aug-28-08 08:47:36 PDT)
Hosa 3 Pin DMX Terminator DMT-414

Am I missing anything?


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

You need 1 terminator per network.... and since you are only buying 1 Enttec unit then you need a grand total of ONE

why so much USB cable? I use a 3' USB cable, signals travel much better over DMX than USB


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

if you get 4 relay packs you would need a cable from interface to pack 1, pack 1 to pack 2, pack 2 to pack 3, pack 3 to pack 4. so you would need 4 cables. how many you buy depends on how long you want to make each one that cat 5 cable is 50 feet so you could make 4 12.5 foot cables. or you could get 2 of those and make 4 25 ft cables, etc. you will also need 1 pack of these for each cable you make American DJ 3-Pin Male - Female XLR Connectors Digital Cables at Music123.

each pack has a male and female xlr connector so each pack makes one cable.


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## Kammo (Aug 2, 2008)

Ok got it... so I guess I can just install the Enttec unit in the computer case.. and only have to use a short USB cord..
So I would then use the 4 CAT5 cables with the XLR ends on it to go from the Enttec unit to pack 1 then pack 1 to pack 2 and so on.... so they just link off of each other...
I think I understand now... THANKS ALOT guys!

Now if I wanna use VSA to also control my (2) 3 axis skulls what hardware would I need?
I am assuming the computer with VSA, a SSC-32 Servo Controller and DB9 Serial Data Cable?


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

phoenix will have to answer this one as i am not 100% sure if vsa can use dmx and an ssc32 at the same time but i think it can.


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## Kammo (Aug 2, 2008)

ok... if not I can run it on another laptop


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

Kammo said:


> Now if I wanna use VSA to also control my (2) 3 axis skulls what hardware would I need?
> I am assuming the computer with VSA, a SSC-32 Servo Controller and DB9 Serial Data Cable?


VSA can output DMX and SSC32 at the same time from the same routine, however there are some issues to be aware of.

Its possible for a computer to play any number of VSA routines at the same time, however, it can only have one routine addressing a device at a time, this means that if you have two or more routines that use DMX lights then you have to ensure that routine 1 stops before you start routine 2.

For simple stuff like an SSC 32 which only has a limited number of channels and your expected to use one board per prop then its no big deal, however, for a DMX network it is a hamstringing problem.

For this reason I developed DMXorcist, this program can play 16 VSA routines over a DMX network at a time, however, it cant play to non DMX devices.

The problem with non DMX devices is they are SLOOOOOW, painfully slow, DMXorcist is a slick thoroughbred program which had been tuned to run fast, adding support for serial devices is like taking away its corn diet and feeding it lard

For this reason I recommend that you use a DMX servo board like the BoC, at $150 it is more expensive than the SSC32, but when you consider that it comes with power supplies, cables, LED and a LOT of features the SSC32 lacks then the price really isn't so bad.


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## Kammo (Aug 2, 2008)

So what all can I do with DMXorcist?


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

VSA will enable you to create a routine and when you click play on the computer it will play it.

Exorcist will give you the ability to assign triggers (PIRs, Mat switches beam sensors) to trigger the routines, but you still have the problem of only one routine at a time can address your DMX chain.

DMXorcist breaks open the one routine barrier, it allows you to play up to 16 routines to your DMX chain at the same time, this means you can have one computer control different aspects or sets.... maybe as follows


Routine 1, set to loop endlessly controls background lighting and maybe have some background sounds

Routine 2, set to play randomly this is a simple thunder and lightening track, and once every few minutes it will give you a burst of TnL

Routine 3, greeter routine which plays a routine to a skull to greet your guests and read them the rules, triggered by a button under control of you gate guard.

Routine 4, Ankle tickler, very brief routine that just sends a burst of air to an ankle tickler when a mat switch is triggered.

Routine 5, triggered by a PIR in a disorientate room, turns the lights off and activates a strobe and cackle track


All these elements could be connected by a single DMX chain, and controlled off of a single computer, add a 7.1 sound card and put 1 of 8 speakers in each set and you get 8 sound channels from your computer

Exorcist is currently available from SkullTronix and a guide to programming it is here






DMXorcist is currently available to Exorcist customers as a free 'beta test' upgrade, it will probably remain in Beta until Halloween, when it will increase in price


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## Regor (Sep 8, 2007)

Phoenix, If I buy Exorcist now and sign up for the DMXorcist beta testing will I lose the upgrade after Halloween? I plan on getting Exorcist in the future, but I will get it now if I will benefit from the upgrade.

Thanks
Roger


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

Since the release of Exorcist there have been a number of bug fixes, upgrades and new features which we have continued to distribute to existing customers FoC.

Exorcist and DMXorcist use the same Hardware, the significant difference is that DMXorcist has a pass code, that pass code will remain valid throughout the life cycle of DMXorcist, which means it will continue to be valid for minor improvements.


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## Kammo (Aug 2, 2008)

Ok well that tut just confused the hell out of me LOL....
So are there things you can do with DMXorcist that you CANT do with VSA?

Also on this listing, Enttec Open DMX USB Interface PC Based 512CH - 70303 - eBay (item 170219267834 end time Sep-10-08 21:14:15 PDT)
there is another 5 to 3 converter, do I need that?
Or is that a terminator? If so then when I order the Enttec I can get that with it and they will combine shipping right?


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

the 3-5 pin converter is a good idea to get.

Exorcist and DMXorcist are 3rd party add ons to VSA, with these programs you use VSA to generate and test your routines, but when it comes to show time you use Exorcist and DMXorcist to play the routines.

I wrote these programs because I wanted to develop a complete PC based control system that could address haunting needs yet be easy for people without computer programming experience.


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## Regor (Sep 8, 2007)

Phoenix
How much more expensive will the DMXorcist be and when will it be available? 
If I get Exorcist, will I be able to buy an upgrade to DMExorcist at a later date?
Roger


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

DMXorcist is still price to be decided, yeah, there will be an upgrade option probably at the difference in cost+ something.

Come the winter we are probably going to rethink our pricing policy, sadly its probably not going to make anything cheaper.


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## Kammo (Aug 2, 2008)

Gotcha! thank you...
Let me know when they are available...


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

can't wait to get all my stuff up and running  my BOC is on order, my 3 dimmer packs should be here soon, and i can see the 4 dmx led pars in my future


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## Skeleton Jay (Aug 12, 2008)

guitarist155 said:


> i am using a usb interface for my computer and VSA for software ENTTEC - OPENDMXUSB l


OK. Got my dimmers. What is the DMX terminator for? Instead of the Entec device can I use XLR to USB? I saw one in Circuit City tonight so that's why I'm asking.


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

there are only two USB devices supported by VSA, the Enttec Open DMX and the Velleman, and of the two I only recommend the Enttec

the terminator is to end the chain, it prevents a reflected signal from screwing up your DMX signal, not always essential, but again recommended


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

Skeleton Jay said:


> OK. Got my dimmers. What is the DMX terminator for? Instead of the Entec device can I use XLR to USB? I saw one in Circuit City tonight so that's why I'm asking.


i say go with the enttec, if you decide to go with exorcist it is the only one they support and it's also the cheapest from what i've seen. 

what you saw at CC is a mic connector, it is for audio only and will not work for dmx


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

getting even closer, i really under estimated how many expensive little parts this has to have, should have some pics up tonight of my progress. also i am now adding thunder and lighting to the setup. it is very simple and will not require any extra hardware, i simply use an open channel on the dmx dimmer and program it with my lightning sound track. 

i am also creating a master vsa program which will have my background music, thunder and lightning, fog control, and main lights.


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

Agreed about the cost . It does sneak up on you. $30 for cables here, $10 for an adapter there. When I totaled it all up I was like _*"Whaaa?..."*_ 

In the end, I'm just darn glad it works as well as it does. I'm looking forward to expanding the system to what you are doing next year. Splitting up the costs from this year to next year should help soften the blow to the budget.


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

yeah, I guess its true, you can spend more going down this route, but unlike most other routes DMX is not a dead end, sure there are cheaper routes to achieving similar effects, but you have to have a fair bit more expertise, and as your systems grow they become less manageable and harder to build on... at least you know with DMX you have 512 channels to work with, and by the time you have exceeded that capacity you are probably in a completely different league anyway.

Cost isn't always about how much you spend on parts, but also time, its worth giving yourself an hourly $$ rate to judge how much something costs, when you do this you find that you are pretty well placed to look at something and judge if your time is best spent doing that, or buying something off the shelf and spending your time somewhere where you get more value out of it.

The other thing to remember is everything in your prop is off the shelf, next year you may have a much better idea and can just as easily take the parts and reassign them to something bigger better


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

> The other thing to remember is everything in your prop is off the shelf, next year you may have a much better idea and can just as easily take the parts and reassign them to something bigger better


that is exactly what i was trying to do, even though i am building alot of my systems and panels I am trying to make it as modular as possible, like having a solenoid bank and control system in one box for a zone and not a solenoid in each prop etc. 

but at the same time i agree that while the dmx system is easier to setup and use than say a logic and ttl voltage system i really feel i am getting more out of it and i feel it can do more. but the best ttl system will be better than a poor dmx system and vice versa. so really as to my feelings on control, i think the best is both, like a dmx to ttl converter then a ttl relay board to convert the signal. you can get more channels for less $ by doing this. in other words, by this system being simple it's not saying the more complex system is better, imho this system is more functional because of being able to use dmx lights and fixtures, servo controllers, etc, and it's alot more simple to setup than say a ttl system. you also get a one cable daisy chain.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

ok i am almost done with the control boxes i should have some pics up tonight (have to clean off my memory card ) this is soo exiting to see it all come together.


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## Kammo (Aug 2, 2008)

Ok so I got 3 DMX dimmers and a ENTTEC Open DMX USB....
Was wondering if anybody uses freestyler to program scenes or anything with it? If so could I get some saved presets to load and get a better understanding on how to use it... Also Is there a program that I can use to set the scenes to music????

Here is what I got so far...


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

i use vsa to program my routines, i use freestyler for some light effect stuff ( chasing, dimming ) but haven't really gotten past the chase routines, i know there is a sound mode in freestyler but this is just for the lights in sync with music, i don't know of a free program for programing routines to sound but vsa will do this.


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## Kammo (Aug 2, 2008)

Hmmm ok i guess ill have to mess with it a bit... I wasnt sure if VSA would run the dmx dimmers...


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

Kammo said:


> Hmmm ok i guess ill have to mess with it a bit... I wasnt sure if VSA would run the dmx dimmers...


yep, i am using those exact dimmers and it runs great


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

sorry no new photos tonight, had a problem with a connector  should be fixed tomorrow then new photos


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## Kammo (Aug 2, 2008)

Hey guitarist, can I get a VSA routine to kinda start me off? I have no idea how to get this started...


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

the only thing i have programed is a relay pack test that goes through all the channels turning each one on for about 2sec, but it's a good test to make sure it's all working it's done for 3 dimmer packs. i can get it for you tomorrow


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## Kammo (Aug 2, 2008)

Oh never mind, I figured it out... didn't realize I had to set the port from COM to ENTTEC. but I found it and its all working good.
I have already put together a scene for my witches...

Thanks anyway!


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## Skeleton Jay (Aug 12, 2008)

Kammo said:


> Ok so I got 3 DMX dimmers and a ENTTEC Open DMX USB....QUOTE]
> 
> Kammo - I've got two of the same packs as wells as two 25ft dmx cables. I have not ordered the Entec yet.
> 
> Allow me to ask a really DUMB question. I ran DMX in on one to DMX out on the other. What settings do I need to operate these things so I can control each channel/plug? I was playing with them with the built in sequences but they seem to operate independently regardless of being chained together. I don't know anytrhing about these things. Good news is I do have VSA and finished the basic build of the 3 axis. So I can use this software once I get the Entec.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

if you want the software to control them once you get the enttec you would need to switch the packs to dmx mode then assign the first pack to channel 1 and the second pack to 5 as each pack is 4 channels so it will go up from the first number you assign, IE. assign pack 1 to chan 1 and channel one on it will respond to 1 channel 2 will respond to 2 and so on, if you assign it to ch 5 then ch1 will respond to 5 then channel 2 will respond to 6 and so on.


if you want them in stand alone for now in a master slave kind of setup you have the first one in chase mode and the second in dmx mode then take the dmx out from the first one to the dmx in on the second, now the second will do what ever the first does.


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## Skeleton Jay (Aug 12, 2008)

guitarist155 said:


> if you want the software to control them once you get the enttec you would need to switch the packs to dmx mode then assign the first pack to channel 1 and the second pack to 5 as each pack is 4 channels so it will go up from the first number you assign, IE. assign pack 1 to chan 1 and channel one on it will respond to 1 channel 2 will respond to 2 and so on, if you assign it to ch 5 then ch1 will respond to 5 then channel 2 will respond to 6 and so on.
> 
> 
> if you want them in stand alone for now in a master slave kind of setup you have the first one in chase mode and the second in dmx mode then take the dmx out from the first one to the dmx in on the second, now the second will do what ever the first does.



So, as a slave, that will make each one operate the same sequence for like channels or continue? Meaning - will pack 1 plug 1 and pack 2 plug 1 light at the same time or will pack 2 plug 1 follow pack 1 plug 4 in a sequence? Once I put the second dimmer in DMX mode I don't have to change ANYTHING? No channels or anything like that?

I told you I don't know anything about this stuff.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

Skeleton Jay said:


> So, as a slave, that will make each one operate the same sequence for like channels or continue? Meaning - will pack 1 plug 1 and pack 2 plug 1 light at the same time or will pack 2 plug 1 follow pack 1 plug 4 in a sequence? Once I put the second dimmer in DMX mode I don't have to change ANYTHING? No channels or anything like that?
> 
> I told you I don't know anything about this stuff.


for master slave mode you just set the second pack to dmx mode don't have to change anything, the second pack will do exactly what the first does, there maybe a way around this but i haven't found it yet. 


however for computer control you will to address the packs and set them up in the computer.


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## Skeleton Jay (Aug 12, 2008)

Cool, I think I've got it now. Thanks.


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## Kammo (Aug 2, 2008)

sorry jay, I kinda dropped the ball on that one.. but yeah guitarist is the pro when it comes to this stuff so he will always tell you right... I am just learning myself but am getting it alot faster than I thought I would... Thanks to guitarist lol...


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## wicc_ed (Apr 12, 2008)

ok so its been a few weeks... how is everyones progress? any pics yet?


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

been ultra busy with all of this, I will try to get some pics up tonight


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## wicc_ed (Apr 12, 2008)

ok I dont mean to beg... but wheres the pics?


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

oops i keep forgetting to post the pics i will try to get some up tonight and more tomorrow, i have been soldering dmx cables all day lol


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

for anyone wondering, I have put some pics up of the solenoid control boxes in my control system album. I don't have pics of the props it's controlling just yet but they should be up soon.


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## [email protected] (Oct 9, 2008)

Ok I'll jump on board.been thinking about this setup for awhile so I shopping around I see alot of DMX/Analog dimmer packs is this ok or do I want digital?Like to get into this cheapy then upgrade as I go but want it to be useable for a few years before I do.


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

'analogue' is a bad description for DMX dimmer packs as they are all by definition digital, i.e. between off and full on there are only 256 steps, if they were analogue there would be an infinite number of steps between off and full on


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

well, dmx is digital and analog is simply an older control system for lighting using ttl voltage from a lighting board. so dmx/analog just means it can read both types of signal. 

I use these 4 CH Digital DMX Dimmer Pack stage lighting light - eBay (item 370100669434 end time Oct-27-08 14:01:34 PDT)
I got mine for $40 you just have to make them an offer and see if they accept, they are great dimmer packs and I have had really good service from that company, the only flaw i found with them is that to switch a low wattage relay or solenoid I have to have a load on the same switch to use up the excess wattage or the relay/solenoid won't open/close properly. I use a small lightbulb or a short 2ft section of rope lights for the load and just hide them or work them into the scene. they don't have a problem with higher wattage loads.

the easiest way to go for switching things on/off is to get a dmx relay pack instead of a dimmer pack, but these are usually more expensive ( around $125 )


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

lol phoenix didn't see your post


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

guitarist155 said:


> well, dmx is digital and analog is simply an older control system for lighting using ttl voltage from a lighting board. so dmx/analog just means it can read both types of signal.
> 
> I use these 4 CH Digital DMX Dimmer Pack stage lighting light - eBay (item 370100669434 end time Oct-27-08 14:01:34 PDT)
> I got mine for $40 you just have to make them an offer and see if they accept, they are great dimmer packs and I have had really good service from that company, the only flaw i found with them is that to switch a low wattage relay or solenoid I have to have a load on the same switch to use up the excess wattage or the relay/solenoid won't open/close properly. I use a small lightbulb or a short 2ft section of rope lights for the load and just hide them or work them into the scene. they don't have a problem with higher wattage loads.
> ...


ah... good point, there are some dimmer packs that accept a 0-10VDC signal, but this is not DMX.... I guess DMX/analogue means that the dimmer pack can accept either types of signal, and indeed I have seen such packs.

The way to identify this type of pack is that they have an extra set of inputs, a DMX only pack will have just two connectors for DMX in/out which will be 3 or 5 pin XLR, a DMX/Analogue pack will have an extra set of sockets which I believe are normally 9 pin DIN (or they are on the DEMUX system Ive got.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

yep, here is one with both dmx and analog, you can see the analog inputs to the far right of the dmx in/out 4CH DMX Dimmer Relay Pack stage theatrical 4 Channel - eBay (item 140276481500 end time Oct-27-08 13:02:10 PDT)


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

for anyone interested i uploaded a bunch of new photos of the control system, they are in my control system album Halloween Forum - guitarist155's Album: control system. after i get all of these uploaded i will start posting what all of it is, how it works and why i did it that way.


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## Rev. Noch (Sep 2, 2008)

guitarist155 said:


> for anyone interested i uploaded a bunch of new photos of the control system, they are in my control system album Halloween Forum - guitarist155's Album: control system. after i get all of these uploaded i will start posting what all of it is, how it works and why i did it that way.


The pics look fantastic! I have some of the same hardware (Exorcist, etc.) Your setup is way more thought out and functional. I would love to see the update that you mention there at the end.


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

Looking great, but I'm not sure what I'm looking at  Can't wait for your explantion.


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## DetroitGrass (Sep 15, 2007)

Here's a quick overview of this project I made so I can understand it better.
http://www.geocities.com/uwantmeok/Visio-DMX.pdf
I can add all the detail of wire connections and guts with some more hand drawn versions with part numbers. Some of the detail was a little fuzzy to me. If the link is down wait a day, geocities has a horrible bandwidth. Or PM me and I will email you it.


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## nOrTHeRn TouCh (Feb 24, 2006)

WOW that is cool I have been tring to get a better understanding on the whole thing and this helps a lot..can't wait to see more...


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## DetroitGrass (Sep 15, 2007)

Phoenix_UK said:


> The next thing that occurs to people is making their own DMX cables, and this can be where trouble starts, as 99% of problems with DMX can often be traced to cables, and its essential that they follow the rules of being 120 ohm twisted pair cable as per the RS425 specification.... BEWARE OF MICROPHONE CABLES, these look exactly the same as a 3 pin DMX cable, strictly speaking DMX cables should have 5 pin connectors but this part of the standard has been completely ignored by everyone!


Do you mean RS 485?? And wasn't pins 4 and 5 only used in custom set ups?

This thread rules. When you see rugged RJ45 jacks to a Bud box, you know some serious thought took place.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

DetroitGrass said:


> Do you mean RS 485?? And wasn't pins 4 and 5 only used in custom set ups?


 i thought dmx is rs845 so i'm not sure and pins 4 and 5 on the xlr are not in use by dmx however some manufacturers use them for other things like +24vdc so you always want to look at the manual before connecting them. my setup is all 3 pin right now with stranded cat5e as the dmx line



DetroitGrass said:


> This thread rules. When you see rugged RJ45 jacks to a Bud box, you know some serious thought took place.


thanks, yea i spent a long time thinking of what would go where and how they would connect and once i decided on cat5e the ethercon connectors were a no brainer


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

DetroitGrass said:


> Do you mean RS 485?? And wasn't pins 4 and 5 only used in custom set ups?
> 
> This thread rules. When you see rugged RJ45 jacks to a Bud box, you know some serious thought took place.



yeah, RS 485, not sure how I got '425' but its a typo.

I've seen a lot of proposed usages for pins 4 and 5, frankly the only reasonable explanation I've seen for DMX specifying the 5 pin XLR, so you cant confuse DMX cables with Mic Cables.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

just installed a new 1gig chip in the automation comp, so now i am up from 512mb to 1.25gigs  can't wait to see what this thing can do now


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

Neither can I


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## da[email protected] (Oct 9, 2008)

I ahve been following this though all the twists and turns and was hoping maybe I can get some info about the building of the Solenoid Rack Box and the trigger box which is why I started reading this.do you have a parts list for them and maybe subs. and how to hook up all the parts in the boxes I see how to do the outside the boxes but need to know the how to on the insides of the boxes.


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## Rev. Noch (Sep 2, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I ahve been following this though all the twists and turns and was hoping maybe I can get some info about the building of the Solenoid Rack Box and the trigger box which is why I started reading this.do you have a parts list for them and maybe subs. and how to hook up all the parts in the boxes I see how to do the outside the boxes but need to know the how to on the insides of the boxes.


I would love some info specifically on the solenoids. Until this last year I had never used one at all. I would love the idea of having them centralized rather than my current setup where the A/C solenoid is just inches from the cylinder.

My only concern is if there is any lag time between the firing of the solenoid to the cylinder moving. Is that a problem at all? Again, I'm a total Pneumatics n00b so I'm just going through what I could see happening in my head, I have no practical experience.


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

To control pneumatics via DMX you need Relays and solenoid valves, I built myself a DMX manifold block for last year and it all worked just fine.

Yes you do get slight lags, but when people start asking about lag I have to ask why, and how much lag is too much...everything lags, even the speed of light has a time lag, and in reality where pneumatics are are suitable then the lag is not a problem... if you include the entire control loop from trigger to action then your talking about 1/10th second... and most of that lag has nothing to do with DMX, relays or solenoid actuation

What you effectively need beside the solenoid valves is a DMX relay pack, or as others have used a DMX dimmer pack switched between min/max.

8 way relay packs can be maybe $130, 4 way dimmer packs I understand are $50, and lately Ive been informed that the LOR controller can be used as a DMX reciever which gives you 16 channels for $200


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## Shaggydo (Apr 7, 2008)

What's a good (affordable) source for the dmx relay/ dimmer packs?


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

sorry hadn't checked my email till today, going out to run some errands but should be able to explain more of whats in the boxes and what it does later this evening.


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## Rev. Noch (Sep 2, 2008)

Phoenix_UK said:


> To control pneumatics via DMX you need Relays and solenoid valves, I built myself a DMX manifold block for last year and it all worked just fine.
> 
> Yes you do get slight lags, but when people start asking about lag I have to ask why, and how much lag is too much...everything lags, even the speed of light has a time lag, and in reality where pneumatics are are suitable then the lag is not a problem... if you include the entire control loop from trigger to action then your talking about 1/10th second... and most of that lag has nothing to do with DMX, relays or solenoid actuation
> 
> ...


Ok, so it sounds like lag is not too much of an issue, that's cool. I would imagine though that as the length of tube from solenoid to cylinder increases, so does lag. Is that correct?

I did my pneumatic control with the DMX dimmer pack this year. I think that the DMX relay probably would be a better option long term for this type of thing. I'll likely look into that. 

Where would someone get the types of Solenoids as used with this device and how much are they normally?



guitarist155 said:


> sorry hadn't checked my email till today, going out to run some errands but should be able to explain more of whats in the boxes and what it does later this evening.


Sounds Great. That would be very helpful.


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

OK, having just written this below it looks confusing, but its not, its actually very simple, it may look confusing because Im not giving an absolute simple answer, and thats becasue there are so many equally simple ways of doing the same thing then its hard to specifically say 'this is the best'. then point is you have choices and flexibility.

'solenoids'... I trust you are referring to pneumatic 'solenoid valves', relays are technically 'solenoid switches', solenoid refers to the electromagnetic coil.

The problem is not the pneumatic valves, its the DMX relay pack, once you have a relay pack then you can use valves to suit.

The 8 way relay packs I use and if there is enough interest I can supply for maybe $130 (Im vague because I need to check postage etc) are capable of controlling up to 8amps at 240VAC, and this includes everything AC and DC up to and including (ie 110VAC, 24VDC, 12VDC), and you can mix-n-match your voltages on a single board (one board I use switches 240VAC, 24VDC 5VDC and dry contacts)

If you went down the $50 dimmer pack route then you would need to use 110VAC pneumatic solenoid valves, or you could use a regular 110VAC relay to interface between the Dimmer pack and a circuit of whatever voltage you wnat to control.

And as for the LOR controllers I frankly have no idea, Ive not looked that closely at them, so m not sure whether they are relay, dimmer or whatever, if they are dimmer and have a fixed voltage then you can sill compensate for this by using the appropriate interfacing relays.


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## Rev. Noch (Sep 2, 2008)

Phoenix_UK said:


> OK, having just written this below it looks confusing, but its not, its actually very simple, it may look confusing because Im not giving an absolute simple answer, and thats becasue there are so many equally simple ways of doing the same thing then its hard to specifically say 'this is the best'. then point is you have choices and flexibility.
> 
> 'solenoids'... I trust you are referring to pneumatic 'solenoid valves', relays are technically 'solenoid switches', solenoid refers to the electromagnetic coil.


You are correct, I was referring to pneumatic Solenoid Valves. Sorry 'bout that.



Phoenix_UK said:


> The problem is not the pneumatic valves, its the DMX relay pack, once you have a relay pack then you can use valves to suit.
> 
> The 8 way relay packs I use and if there is enough interest I can supply for maybe $130 (Im vague because I need to check postage etc) are capable of controlling up to 8amps at 240VAC, and this includes everything AC and DC up to and including (ie 110VAC, 24VDC, 12VDC), and you can mix-n-match your voltages on a single board (one board I use switches 240VAC, 24VDC 5VDC and dry contacts)
> 
> ...


The $50 dimmer is what I used for my pneumatic valve triggering this year. It was decent, but obviously not exactly what it was intended for. I think that the 8 way relay pack would be better overall. Not only would it control more devices independently per pack, but it appears that it could be much more compact. I would love to be able to get one/some as cheaply as possible.


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## jstein (Nov 9, 2008)

I used Light O Rama at Halloween to control a solenoid that was a 110. They can dim up and down and have all kinds of features.


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

jstein said:


> I used Light O Rama at Halloween to control a solenoid that was a 110. They can dim up and down and have all kinds of features.


Yeah, I'm guessing its a 16 way dimmer pack, which suggests it would be pretty good for controlling 110VAC circuits and if you used 110VAC relays then anything else.

the 'downside' I see is that unless you have a specific requirement for 16 outputs at a point then a 16 way unit can prove inconvenient, especially when you can buy 4 x 4 way units for the same money.

Take a look at these two schematics



















These schematics illustrate the same system using a 16 and 4 way dimmer packs, now the length of the individual cables are virtually unlimited, though the total length to the blue DMX cable in example 2 is limited to 1000', which is not a problem in a haunt capacity.

The first schematic is has a central hub and a lot of cables going to all sorts of places, its not really working to one of DMX's strengths which is the ability to reduce cable complexity.

The second is more DMX..esk, each group of 4 coud represent a single prop or setand they could be distributed throughout your haunt, you will probably find that the amount of cabling is much less and alsoif one of your dimmer packs fails then you can still work at 75%

What Im trying to illustrate here is large multi port Dimmer/relay packs are not always best, and with a DMX world its not always best to think about a central control cabinet but rather work to the strength of DMX and be prepared to distribute your output elements throughout the haunt, leaving your central control desk to handle just the control.


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## jstein (Nov 9, 2008)

Phoenix_UK said:


> Yeah, I'm guessing its a 16 way dimmer pack, which suggests it would be pretty good for controlling 110VAC circuits and if you used 110VAC relays then anything else.
> 
> the 'downside' I see is that unless you have a specific requirement for 16 outputs at a point then a 16 way unit can prove inconvenient, especially when you can buy 4 x 4 way units for the same money.
> 
> ...



The Light O Rama stuff deffinitely is not the cheapest unless like me you just have these things laying around, but now they can be programmed and activated using a simple push button. I just have extras of these from Christmas.


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## [email protected] (Oct 9, 2008)

Phoenix_UK said:


> Yeah, I'm guessing its a 16 way dimmer pack, which suggests it would be pretty good for controlling 110VAC circuits and if you used 110VAC relays then anything else.
> 
> the 'downside' I see is that unless you have a specific requirement for 16 outputs at a point then a 16 way unit can prove inconvenient, especially when you can buy 4 x 4 way units for the same money.
> 
> ...


But I think I read there is a max length of the cable that can be used of something like 100ft.I know there is a max when using Cat 5 cable and doesn't the dimmer packs also have to each have a power cord to them ?


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## [email protected] (Oct 9, 2008)

jstein: Ya rub it in about the The Light O Rama stuff deffinitely is not the cheapest unless like me you just have these things laying around! LOL.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> But I think I read there is a max length of the cable that can be used of something like 100ft.I know there is a max when using Cat 5 cable and doesn't the dimmer packs also have to each have a power cord to them ?


yes each pack has to have a power cord going to it but this is usually not hard as most of us have 120v for lighting etc, in the haunt to plug into. the key here is control, dmx can have a max cable length of around 3000ft however a lot of manufacturers have a hardware limit of around 1000ft. still, if you need more than 1000ft between packs you might want to rethink your setup  OR use dmx over IP then you can go as far as you ever could want ( prop in china  )


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## jstein (Nov 9, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> jstein: Ya rub it in about the The Light O Rama stuff deffinitely is not the cheapest unless like me you just have these things laying around! LOL.


Sorry to make it sound like I have a lot. I only have 2. But no, you can go 4000' with the CAT5. It just depends which adapter you purchase. But there is no way that I would ever buy these to use in a haunt of any sort because I know it is MUCH cheaper to use the dmx dimmer packs.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

ok so about my sensor boxes. the boxes are simply to make connections easier, faster and to keep everything nice and neat. the exorcist uses dry contact sensor inputs so anything that switches will work as a trigger, so i use sensor converter boxes, these house 120v coil relays, when the relays get 120v in from the motion sensor they switch, now the cat 5 has 4 pairs, meaning i can carry 4 independent contact closures, so when the relay gets 120v it connects the 2 wires for that sensor, these go into the box housing the exorcist. everything you see other than the relays is basically passive, it's just a way of carrying the signals in one cable to make connections and placement simple. 

so basically all I can really do here is answer questions,like why did you use this or why do this not that. please ask away. tomorrow I will break down what does what in the solenoid box, it has a few more parts and functions. I will also try and explain why i decided to go the way i did rather than just having dmx relays switch the solenoids.


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## [email protected] (Oct 9, 2008)

guitarist155 said:


> ok so about my sensor boxes. the boxes are simply to make connections easier, faster and to keep everything nice and neat. the exorcist uses dry contact sensor inputs so anything that switches will work as a trigger, so i use sensor converter boxes, these house 120v coil relays, when the relays get 120v in from the motion sensor they switch, now the cat 5 has 4 pairs, meaning i can carry 4 independent contact closures, so when the relay gets 120v it connects the 2 wires for that sensor, these go into the box housing the exorcist. everything you see other than the relays is basically passive, it's just a way of carrying the signals in one cable to make connections and placement simple.
> 
> so basically all I can really do here is answer questions,like why did you use this or why do this not that. please ask away. tomorrow I will break down what does what in the solenoid box, it has a few more parts and functions. I will also try and explain why i decided to go the way i did rather than just having dmx relays switch the solenoids.


I'm looking forward to it. Because I would like to build a setup this year but I'm a noob to this part of it.So What I really would like to know is what parts i would need for the guts of the boxes.what do I look for when shopping as I see so many diffrent types of like relays, dry sensors,etc and since I'm not sure what I'm buying if I could get some Idea of maybe what specs to look for It would help me decide what to buy.I have the compressor and the laptop and your drawing of the outside of the boxes stuff.but the things like which type of relays,valves,etc. some like you need a x type of relay and a x valve and a....Thank you for your time.


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

Guitarist155
I would also like some clarification as to why you went with certain components over others. Specifically why you went with 110VAC motion sensors which required the use of extension cords over lower voltage options that could use much smaller gage sensor wires. 
I would also like to know why you went with 110VAC solenoids controlled by DMX Relay packs instead of getting a lower voltage MX Relay board? Was is because it was cheaper or easier to assembly, etc? 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

Phoenix_UK
Have you ever used this DMX relay board?
DMX Relay Board, Part #1-493 at £59.00 ($83.73 USD)each (12V DC Supply) @
DMX Controllers
It provides 8 Digital relays that I would like to use to control pneumatic solenoid valves.


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

Yup, I've actually got one in my hand now


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

So that would be a good board then or is there a better one?


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

Its an excellent board, just be aware that it has 5 pin DMX connectors so if you are using 3 pin DMX cables then you will need converters


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

Cool because even with converters it should be cheaper than other boards. It is comming from the UK so shipping may be a bit high.


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

yeah, but the £ is weak at the moment and you don't have to pay VAT so its a particularly good bargain.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

ok some updates on the reasons i did things the way I did. 

my solenoids are all 24vdc control with an omron 240/120 50/60hz power supply, this is a very good power supply and amazingly built. I decided to go 120v relays for multiple reasons. the first is that it allows me to use general dmx packs which can be found anywhere and were very cheap at about $40-45 (can't remember) since I love stage lighting and am a musician this also allows me to be readdy for any general lighting needs as I am trying to build up my stage lighting and these will work for par cans. this also allows my haunt to be flexible so if I ever used another form of solenoid I could easily find another use for the dimmer packs. I can also plug multiple thing into each channel, like a spot light so that when a prop activates, a spot light comes on aimed at it. this would be harder to do with a low voltage dmx relay system as I would need more relays to interface the light to the board, etc. 

the second reason is everything is built to fail, what i mean by this is that I expect every part to stop working at a very important time, so by operating it with 120v I have a backup manual control board that switches 120v so I can simply unplug the dmx system and switch to full manual, this also ties in with the 120v motion sensors, if i want I can plug a motion sensor directly into the solenoid box and have it control the solenoid if something happened to the system. also by using 120v trigger converter boxes I can use any trigger made for 120v my motion sensors cost me around $15 each after the cord and wall box for them, these can also be used else where to trigger my 120v triggered fog remote and lights etc. where a simple dry contact motion would require more circuits to do this. all of my relays are the same model IDEC relay with din sockets, I got a box of 72 on ebay for $30 shipped. by using all the same relay in all devices and having sockets, having so many spares i can change out a bad relay in any device in under 5min which is just the time to disconnect and open the devices then I simply unplug the bad relay and plug in the new one. 

the system is designed as fail safe, we have many guests that come through and my main concern above all is their safety, I use dual smc airsets which fail to closed but if something goes wrong and it fails and outputs full pressure the next regulator will catch it. my whole system is also designed to withstand full pressure in the event that all fail. I also have a regulator at the air compressor that feeds the trunk line at around 80-90psi then a regulator on any stems to drop the pressure to 35 psi and then the dual regulators on the pneumatic controller that feeds directly from the trunk line, these also drop to 35psi


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

Guitarist,
Thank you for the explanation I just have a couple of questions.
Since you are plugging a prop spot light into the same circuit that activates the prop it means that you are limited to either on or off of the spot light with no dimming capabilities because you are using a Dimmer pack as a relay pack, on/off? Also this means that the light will only stay on for as long as the pneumatic is on for which could be pretty quick and is only for one action, like the extension of an air cylinder but not the retraction because that would be a difference DMX controlled circuit controlling a different solenoid valve. Do you use this feature on a prop like a tombstone pop up?
How do you wire the BoC to the DMX network because it does not have a DMX plug?


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

the BoC normally comes with cables that have the plugs on them.


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## Rev. Noch (Sep 2, 2008)

SpookySteve said:


> Guitarist,
> Thank you for the explanation I just have a couple of questions.
> Since you are plugging a prop spot light into the same circuit that activates the prop it means that you are limited to either on or off of the spot light with no dimming capabilities because you are using a Dimmer pack as a relay pack, on/off? Also this means that the light will only stay on for as long as the pneumatic is on for which could be pretty quick and is only for one action, like the extension of an air cylinder but not the retraction because that would be a difference DMX controlled circuit controlling a different solenoid valve. Do you use this feature on a prop like a tombstone pop up?
> How do you wire the BoC to the DMX network because it does not have a DMX plug?


I can't attest for the Dimmer pack stuff as he is using it. However I do have a BOC and it does come with the correct cables to attach it to a DMX chain.


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## Rev. Noch (Sep 2, 2008)

I just was thinking about some other uses for DMX today and I have a question. I would like to potentially run a few setups for in the DMX Chain to control video. I was thinking that I could potentially use a relay wired to the DVD player to press the buttons. Has anyone tried anything like that? Does that sound even remotely possible?


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

Rev. Noch said:


> I just was thinking about some other uses for DMX today and I have a question. I would like to potentially run a few setups for in the DMX Chain to control video. I was thinking that I could potentially use a relay wired to the DVD player to press the buttons. Has anyone tried anything like that? Does that sound even remotely possible?


there are DMX DVD players.... but they are expensive


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## Rev. Noch (Sep 2, 2008)

Phoenix_UK said:


> there are DMX DVD players.... but they are expensive


I've seen those and yes they are horribly expensive. Way more than I'm willing to spend.

To actually make it cheaper, I was thinking I could have a relay operate the button somehow in place of pressing the button to trigger it. That sounds to me like it could maybe make it reasonable. At this point it sounds like I'd have to hack up a DVD player to find out how the button works to see if this is even feasible.

I was thinking that if this works, I could even hack a portable DVD player and have a light shine through the disassembled screen to be a very cheap projector.


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

The cost of the DMX cables for the BoC have gone up drastically with the complete board kit being sold for $249. I was thinking of getting the board by itself. Can anyone tell me how to make my own DMX cable that I would attach to the BoC? So the BoC can "Speak" DMX with out a translator board?


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

Its actually pretty easy to make DMX cables, you will need a male and female XLR connector 3 or 5 pin (your choice) and some Cat 5 cable.

you will also need to get a header plug that connects onto the BoC DMX headers.

The BoC is completely fluent in DMX


edit....

plan B would be to buy a regular DMX cable and cut it in two, and you have an instant BoC DMX cable


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

I like plan B. Get a 2 foot DMX and two headers. Are the headers 4x1, thats what it looks like in the pictures of the BoC? 

Is the DMXorcist still avaliable for Beta test at the Exorcist cost?


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

SpookySteve said:


> Guitarist,
> Thank you for the explanation I just have a couple of questions.
> Since you are plugging a prop spot light into the same circuit that activates the prop it means that you are limited to either on or off of the spot light with no dimming capabilities because you are using a Dimmer pack as a relay pack, on/off? Also this means that the light will only stay on for as long as the pneumatic is on for which could be pretty quick and is only for one action, like the extension of an air cylinder but not the retraction because that would be a difference DMX controlled circuit controlling a different solenoid valve. Do you use this feature on a prop like a tombstone pop up?
> How do you wire the BoC to the DMX network because it does not have a DMX plug?


I don't have to use the spot on the same channel, I do this to make it so that the light or strobe lights up the prop as it activates to draw attention to the prop, haven't had a reason to dim the spot in this instance but if i did i would use another channel. also I am not quite sure what you mean on the second part, the solenoids I am using work with my dual acting cylinders so that when power is applied it extends and when power is off it retracts, so I only need one channel per cylinder. the reason I have used multiple channels on cylinders is for motion control and position which is another matter and a whole other discussion. 

and like phoenix said, the boc came with the cables to connect to my dmx interface, to extend those and to chain to other dmx devices I use my own dmx cables made with black stranded cat5e


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

Are you using 4 way solenoid valves?
What size are the header pins on the BoC, 3x1 or 4x1?


guitarist155 said:


> I don't have to use the spot on the same channel, I do this to make it so that the light or strobe lights up the prop as it activates to draw attention to the prop, haven't had a reason to dim the spot in this instance but if i did i would use another channel. also I am not quite sure what you mean on the second part, the solenoids I am using work with my dual acting cylinders so that when power is applied it extends and when power is off it retracts, so I only need one channel per cylinder. the reason I have used multiple channels on cylinders is for motion control and position which is another matter and a whole other discussion.
> 
> and like phoenix said, the boc came with the cables to connect to my dmx interface, to extend those and to chain to other dmx devices I use my own dmx cables made with black stranded cat5e


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

SpookySteve said:


> Are you using 4 way solenoid valves?
> What size are the header pins on the BoC, 3x1 or 4x1?


5-way 3/2, and I can't remember, my board is in my workshop in a skull so i will just pass this to phoenix


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

The 3/2 refers to 3 inputs and 2 outputs?


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## mark_mco (Oct 16, 2007)

SpookySteve said:


> Are you using 4 way solenoid valves?
> What size are the header pins on the BoC, 3x1 or 4x1?


From this post on the Skulltronix forum, it looks like 3x1
SkullTroniX (tm) Support :: BoC Connection Guide

Mark


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

3/2 refers to 1 in, 2 out, 2 exhaust. 

and yes after seeing that they are 3x1


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

Thank you both.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

Rev. Noch said:


> I just was thinking about some other uses for DMX today and I have a question. I would like to potentially run a few setups for in the DMX Chain to control video. I was thinking that I could potentially use a relay wired to the DVD player to press the buttons. Has anyone tried anything like that? Does that sound even remotely possible?


this should be able to be done easily, you would need a dvd player that has a play,stop,next and back button on the front and a 4ch dmx dry contact relay board. should be able to do it for under 100 but i just worry about how the face buttons would interact with the dvd scenes and menu. If you can control what you want from the buttons on the front then it is simply a matter of opening it up and soldering the wires onto the board where the buttons are, you could even mount the relay board ( most are very small ) inside and add 2 xlr jacks to the back and it would look like a pro dmx dvd player


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

How is a "Dry" contact relay different from a normal relay?


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## Rev. Noch (Sep 2, 2008)

guitarist155 said:


> this should be able to be done easily, you would need a dvd player that has a play,stop,next and back button on the front and a 4ch dmx dry contact relay board. should be able to do it for under 100 but i just worry about how the face buttons would interact with the dvd scenes and menu. If you can control what you want from the buttons on the front then it is simply a matter of opening it up and soldering the wires onto the board where the buttons are, you could even mount the relay board ( most are very small ) inside and add 2 xlr jacks to the back and it would look like a pro dmx dvd player


That gives me some great hope and a great place to start. Thanks! Do you think that the dmx relay talked about earlier in this thread would do the job? It looks like it comes without the relays so that I could put in which ever I want.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

SpookySteve said:


> How is a "Dry" contact relay different from a normal relay?


well it really isn't, I use the term just to clarify that a mean simply a switch. there are dmx relay packs designed for lighting that when activated send 120v to an outlet, these are still called relay packs though so I have to specify that I mean a dry relay rather than a lighting relay pack, if that makes any sense


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

Rev. Noch said:


> That gives me some great hope and a great place to start. Thanks! Do you think that the dmx relay talked about earlier in this thread would do the job? It looks like it comes without the relays so that I could put in which ever I want.


did you mean the one here? DMX Controllers i like that board, looks pretty small too. not sure you would need 8 ch but it's cheaper than almost all other ones, you just have to get 12vdc to it, a small power supply tied into the dvd players mains maybe? 

or did you mean the one earlier that was only a 4ch


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## Rev. Noch (Sep 2, 2008)

guitarist155 said:


> did you mean the one here? DMX Controllers i like that board, looks pretty small too. not sure you would need 8 ch but it's cheaper than almost all other ones, you just have to get 12vdc to it, a small power supply tied into the dvd players mains maybe?
> 
> or did you mean the one earlier that was only a 4ch


Yes that's the one I was thinking of. I figured with 8 outputs I could rig them for other projects too. I could build a DMX box with the DVD player in it and have some other outputs for the other relays.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

Rev. Noch said:


> Yes that's the one I was thinking of. I figured with 8 outputs I could rig them for other projects too. I could build a DMX box with the DVD player in it and have some other outputs for the other relays.


if the dvd buttons had a common ground you could use a 5 pin connector on the back and then have that cable go back to the relay board box.


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

Many people have been asking about the high price of the BoC, as it has jumped from $149 to $250.

This has mostly been down to supply issues for the axillary parts, which have included issues like suppliers sending faulty parts which have drastically increased the support costs.

This has raised the idea of supplying the board without all the bits and pieces, you just buy the board in much the same way as when you buy any other servo board.

So...... it leaves the question of how much interest there would be in a BoC only deal for $90?


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

hmm that would be great for me, any of the other parts I could make or get if I wanted another and it would be great to be able to buy the board only if something happened to mine but i still had all the external parts


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

I would be interested if it still comes with the software to set it up and tune the servos? Does it?


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

Do you mean that a "Dry" relay is one in which there is no power added? By this I mean you have the switching voltage on one side then one the other isolated side you have what ever power is being switched? Isn't this how a relay is intended to function? Still confused


guitarist155 said:


> well it really isn't, I use the term just to clarify that a mean simply a switch. there are dmx relay packs designed for lighting that when activated send 120v to an outlet, these are still called relay packs though so I have to specify that I mean a dry relay rather than a lighting relay pack, if that makes any sense


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## wicc_ed (Apr 12, 2008)

Spooky Steve... 
I think he means "dry" as in a plain relay where as a "wet" relay pack would be as this item...

*NEW* DMX / Analog 4 Channel Dimmer Relay Pack Light - eBay (item 400026223605 end time Feb-20-09 12:00:48 PST)


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

wicc_ed said:


> Spooky Steve...
> I think he means "dry" as in a plain relay where as a "wet" relay pack would be as this item...
> 
> *NEW* DMX / Analog 4 Channel Dimmer Relay Pack Light - eBay (item 400026223605 end time Feb-20-09 12:00:48 PST)


right, although that one is also a dimmer but still. with a pack like that the relay is built in so that when it's turned on the relay ( a dry contact ) switches 120v on or off. so you don't have the option to use it to switch something else without modification. it's basically this: a dry contact is a switch, a non-dry contact device outputs a voltage.


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

So you are refering to a stand alone relay in a relay socket as a "Dry relay" and a DMX relay pack, 4, 8 circuit, etc, as a "relay" correct?


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

usually i refer to a dmx controlled switch as a dmx relay and a dmx dimmer/relay for lighting as a dimmer or relay pack. so it can be a bit confusing. but when i say a dry contact closure it means any kind of switch that will make a connection between two points. this can be anything you want to use. dmx,ttl, manual etc. that's why i just say dry contact and not relay, it lets people know that I mean a switch rather than a light controller. since the two are called almost the same thing I will usually use it in context or give an example.


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

Now I get it. Thanks!


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

*Neutrik XLR Connector Source*

Here is a good source for Neutrik XLR connectors
Female: $2.80/ea 
Neutrik NC3FXX-BAG at Performance Audio
Male: $2.62/ea 
Neutrik NC3MXX-BAG at Performance Audio
This is $1.57/pair cheaper than American DJ and the connectors look better. They have metal bodies


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

those are very good connectors, I use all neutrik with the exception of 2 dmx cables and a switch craft jack. my recording studio mic cables are also neutrik. switchcraft and neutrik are the best in the industry. I got mine from parts express great prices and they have the full line of neutrik ethercon too.


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

*DMX relay for cheaper.*

Guitarist155,
You mentioned getting a DMX dimmer relay pack from an Ebay seller. I believe this is the one NEW DMX 15Amp 4Channel Can Light Dimmer Relay Pack - eBay (item 350160079360 end time Feb-05-09 22:59:06 PST). They have a min bid price of $79.99 for the item you said you got for $48! Was the price higher and you just sent them an email saying you would pay $48 and they agreed, or was the price lower back then?
Just looking to save some money!


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## Rev. Noch (Sep 2, 2008)

SpookySteve said:


> Guitarist155,
> You mentioned getting a DMX dimmer relay pack from an Ebay seller. I believe this is the one NEW DMX 15Amp 4Channel Can Light Dimmer Relay Pack - eBay (item 350160079360 end time Feb-05-09 22:59:06 PST). They have a min bid price of $79.99 for the item you said you got for $48! Was the price higher and you just sent them an email saying you would pay $48 and they agreed, or was the price lower back then?
> Just looking to save some money!


It looks like there may not be very many good deals on them right now on ebay. Around Halloween I got mine for around $60. It was the genericish green/blue looking one.

I did find this on the internet, it's a bit of a better deal than what I was able to find on Ebay. I've never ordered from that company before so I'm not totally sure about them.

SIXSTARDJ.COM ED-15 DMX DIMMER / DELAY PACK


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

I got mine from an ebay store that also has a main website and store, eBay Store - BulbAmerica: Par 64 Cans Bulbs, 600W - 799W, 150W - 199W they don't seem to have the packs right now but they are maid by optima lighting and are sold elsewhere for around $120. i believe they had them for $55 and I offered $40 or 45 I can't remember. I see that they still have them they are just combined in a package with lights. 

It might be worth emailing them on ebay and asking if they will be listing more dmx dimmer packs and when.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

these are the exact ones OPTIMA LIGHTING 4ch. Double Output DMX PRO Dimmer Pack - BulbAmerica.com just not from their ebay store they are way more expensive on the regular sight....


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## Rev. Noch (Sep 2, 2008)

guitarist155 said:


> I got mine from an ebay store that also has a main website and store, eBay Store - BulbAmerica: Par 64 Cans Bulbs, 600W - 799W, 150W - 199W they don't seem to have the packs right now but they are maid by optima lighting and are sold elsewhere for around $120. i believe they had them for $55 and I offered $40 or 45 I can't remember. I see that they still have them they are just combined in a package with lights.
> 
> It might be worth emailing them on ebay and asking if they will be listing more dmx dimmer packs and when.


I think that I got mine from Bulbamerica also. I did find some on their site just now that look somewhat reasonable:

BulbAmerica DMX Dimmer Packs


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

I guess I will just have to keep my eyes open for deals in the future. Thanks for the help!


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

How do you guys keep your DMX Relay/Dimmer packs out of the elements when installed in your haunt?


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## Rev. Noch (Sep 2, 2008)

SpookySteve said:


> How do you guys keep your DMX Relay/Dimmer packs out of the elements when installed in your haunt?


I kept mine in the back of my mausoleum and then ran extension cords out. As long as you can get the extensions to where you need them, indoors would be fine. You could also possibly build something to disguise it like a tomb, rock, coffin, etc.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

well my control system is designed to be setup and torn down the same day, the large electrical items and solenoid box are modular with only a few connections, the motion sensors, lights and a few other things are outdoor rated and sealed, I am weather proofing alot of stuff this year, I like to use black rubber bins, nema enclosures when money allows, and I maid a big rock to hide some stuff. I really like the large outdoor boxes on the conduit isle, they come in many sizes ( I have seen them up to about 1foot by 1foot ) and are weather sealed if used properly


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

Guitarist155,
Is there a reason you went with the DC power supply you did? I have some extra PC ATX power supplies and was thinking of using them instead of buying another one. Any thing I should look out for?


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

I used that supply for a few reasons. 1 I wanted a standalone power supply, I didn't have need for multiple voltages so I only wanted the circuits for one voltage ( less to fail, heat up, and less space. also that is a power supply used in commercial automation systems, the thing is built to last. it outputs very clean dc. a computer power supply would work, they just have more parts for more voltages and most have their own fan because the generate alot of heat. I also got that power supply for about $13 on ebay so that was another big factor


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

Do you remember if you got the power supply from a store on ebay or an individual seller? Where did you get your pneumatic solenoid manifold from? What was the cost? Why did you go with 5 way valves?
Sorry for all of the questions.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

I think it was a store that sold automation products but In an individual manner, I also got the solenoids on ebay for about $40. I went with the 5 way for versatility, they will operate single or dual acting, so I can use the same system for any configuration.


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

Couldn't you also use 4 way valves to operate a double acting cylinder. I ask becuse 5 way valve are harder to come by and more expencive.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

yes, it would be 1 in 2 out 1 exhaust. mine simply has 2 exhaust ports. mine are 4 way 5 port valves.


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

Bit of hot news here, there is a new version of VSA, 4.003, and that now supports the Enttec USB Pro

The USB pro cost $150 verses the $60 for the USB open, and last year we started running into problems with the open unit where it would stop sending a steady DMX stream and instead pulse at irregular intervals messing up the DMX chain... after a little investigation it turns out that this is a known problem for the open module

To solve this I added support for the Enttec Pro to DMXorcist, which solved the problem quite nicely.

The problem is down to the difference in how the open and pro modules work, the open module is little more than a communication port and signal converter, and the rate of teh DMX stream is dictated by the PC.. however the Pro Module has its own processor which regulates the DMX stream regardless of the PC.

For starting out most should find the Open module adequate, however, I suspect that as you system and ambitions grow you are increasingly likely to need a Pro module.


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## mark_mco (Oct 16, 2007)

Phoenix_UK said:


> To solve this I added support for the Enttec Pro to DMXorcist, which solved the problem quite nicely.


Thanks for the info on VSA. On a side note, can you give an update on the staus on DMXorcist as far as availability? I'd also like to get an idea of the expected cost of an upgrade from Excorcist as opposed to just purchasing DMXorcist outright. 

Mark


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

Are there different XLR connectors for DMX vs. Audio? From what I know the connectors are the same it is just the cable between them that is different. Is that correct?


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

Strictly speaking DMX should use 5 pin XLR connectors, to prevent DMX cables getting mixed with audio cables which have 3 pin XLR connectors.

However, despite the standard 3 Pin XLR connectors have become more common on DMX cables, and DMX devices, not sure why, its one of the issues that makes DMX more complex than it really needs to be.

In short.. and to answer you question.... no there is no difference between Audio and DMX 3 pin XLR connectors.


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

Sweet, because there are some good deals on ebay for 3-pin XLR connectors.


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

When using Cat5 or Cat5e stranded cable to make DMX cables, does it have to be shielded to work properly or can it be the unshielded type?


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

not sure if you are talking about the foil shield or not but usually the difference in cat5 is the casing rating for in wall runs, the foil shield is always good but usually stiff. I don't believe any of my runs have the foil but it's been awhile since I did them. here is what I use For only $6.36 each when QTY 50+ purchased - 100FT 350MHz UTP Cat5e RJ45 Network Cable - Black | Cat5e Straight Cable - 100ft great quality stuff 100ft stranded for $8  I ordered 6 rolls for my setup last year and have not had a problem with any of the cables I made and have coiled, uncoiled, reeled and pulled them many times.


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## [email protected] (Oct 9, 2008)

menard's has rolls of cat5e 500' for 50.00 and in my computer business I bought from cables to go. sometimes they have great deals.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

it's most likely solid core though, solid core is stiff and should really only be used in fixed installs as it will break if flexed too many times or rolled and unrolled a few times.


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

Guitarist,
I was looking at your album pictures and noticed that you used the Punchdown IDC Ethercon recepticals on your control box. Did you use Solid core Cat5 for these cables on the inside of the box? I ask because I came across a statement on one of the cable supplier websites stating that the stranded Cat5 will not work with any Punchdown connections.


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

Guitarist,
Have you run into any limitaions of having a central air preparation location (psi regulation)? I would think it would make desinging props more difficult as they all would have to use the same psi inlet. Do you vary the bore of your air cylinders for each prop to get the power you need while keeping the same inlet pressure? I ask because I am starting to design a MIB Coffin like the one Terra built but mine will have 6 double acting air cylinders to operate various things. This means that I would have to run 12 air lines to that prop from the central pneumatic solenoid valve station. If I located the solenoid valves within the prop and just ran wire, I could do it with one Cat5 line (7 wires: 6 solenoid control and 1 common) which is cheaper than 12 lengths of tubing. The only down side I can see is that I will need a seperate pressure regulator for each prop but I have a bunch of used ones from work so they are free for me. 
Sorry for so many questions just wanted to bounce ideas off of someone who has done it before.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

yes I am using solid core on the sensor boxes and main control box. I run a trunk line of about 90psi to each scene, then at the scene I drop the pressure down to 35psi. the solenoid box controls a scene where most props only had one cylinder so I used a solenoid box to simplify connections and allow me to use a solenoid manifold. with most manifolds all valves get the same pressure. I do very the bore size of the cylinders based on the power I need, you should never really need to go above 35-40psi unless you have an absolute need for small bore, high power, cylinders. if you will be using 6 cylinders in one prop I recommend putting the solenoids and the dmx control pack in the prop ( if you have room ) then all you need to do is run a dmx cable and power to the prop. the problem with running a cat 5 cable with 24vdc is you get major voltage drop and will have to measure and bump up the source voltage. you also have to make sure the cat 5 can handle the load, if you run 7 positives and one negative, the negative will be carrying 7 times the load of the hots so it would need to be 7 times the gauge of the other 7 or it would have to be only using 1/7th the rated capacity of the wire. for my original plan I was also going to run a long wire from the relays to the solenoids and I got 500ft of sprinkler control wire that is 5 wire designed for 24vdc 4 valves plus common, they also make 7 wire which would work for you. the down side is the stuff is pricey at almost $200 for 500ft and it's solid core so it's very very stiff. I got mine just to have around anyway as I got it on sale for $50 for 500ft


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

Thanks. Your idea of placing the DMX solenoid board and solenoid valves inside of the prop make a lot of sence and makes the wiring easier between props.


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

SpookySteve said:


> Thanks. Your idea of placing the DMX solenoid board and solenoid valves inside of the prop make a lot of sence and makes the wiring easier between props.



This is the way DMX should be used, each prop should be built with its own relays solenoids and lighting, and be self contained, then all you need do is connect air power and DMX and it will work.

When you work this way then you can design your haunt such that the services (air, power and DMX) are distributed about the place and you can just tap into them at any point, and expect your prop to work... moving a prop could be as easy as moving a desk fan, you just unplug it at point A, plug it in at point B and not have to worry about a dozen or so control lines.

Terra's MiB is a great example of this kind of self contained prop


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

well I hadn't updated this so I thought it was about time. the control system worked perfectly on the big day without a single hiccup, I even found that you can edit VSA programs while exorcist is still running them. I just opened the vsa file and made the tweaks then it updated as soon as I hit save in vsa. all without ever stopping a program. I did have some prop and time issues but that was no fault of the control system ( cheap harbor freight product... ) the only flaw I found with the system was the motion sensors. while they worked great as room occupancy sensors, as path sensors they pretty much failed. they misfired and some of the time didn't fire at all  so this year the sensors are all being upgraded to nema rated industrial beam sensors  another modification that might be worth doing is a weatherproof rj45 connector and weather proof power connectors on the sensor box to be able to set all sensors up and be carefree no matter the weather.


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

You using Exorcist or DMXorcist? I forget?

With DMXorcist you can certainly edit the VSA file whilst the routine is playing... but Im fairly certain that it wont update until your rearm the control system.

The best solution ve found for path sensors is mat switches and then carpet the path, works great if you have concrete or flagstone path, certainly dont try it with gravel or grass


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

I am running DMeXorcist. didn't have to re-arm, it just updated when the VSA file was saved. I'm not sure which version i'm running through, I think it's the one right before you took out the first frame playback at the end. I would love to get the latest version if it doesn't conflict as I am still using the open dmx and the last version of VSA BEFORE version 4.0 

I would love to do mat switches but about 3/4 the path is grass so I decided to go with the beam sensors. ( I also really love beam sensors  ) so far I have two retro reflective units on order.


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

guitarist155 said:


> I am running DMeXorcist. didn't have to re-arm, it just updated when the VSA file was saved. I'm not sure which version i'm running through



....ah..... are you VERY sure about this? don't really want to disagree with you here, but I'm fairly certain that what your suggesting is impossible, when you arm DMXorcist it opens and decodes the VSA files, but, it wont reopen it until you arm again, so it should not recognise any changes.

If on the other hand it is actually doing what you suggest then I need to find out why, because basically it shouldn't, and it gets worrying when software does stuff it shouldn't.... though it would be a cool feature if it was implemented properly.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

well the last time I did an edit with it running was halloween night so It is possible I re armed and am forgetting about it. I will have to try it later and see if it does it.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

just checked and couldn't get it to update the program without re-arming, guess I had just forgotten this step. in any even it's still ultra easy to tweak while things are running. just modify, save, disarm, arm. and you're running the modified program in just a few seconds.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

Alright, resurrecting this thread so i can show all the improvements that are built upon the original. 
so many things have changed that it is hard to keep track now so i will modify and add as i go, I do intend on starting up a series of youtube videos about it as well. 

my DMX is now wireless, however it can still be wired if i want, in cases where i get significant interference or if the item is close to another DMX prop wired is better. however with my wireless i have convenience, speed and less holes to seal for waterproofing. 

my DMX controllability has expanded greatly.. as in every light ( no really... every one) in the haunt is DMX now, and all are at least RGBW theatrical fixtures similar to the likes of the ones used for concerts or for theme parks. this means that my main lights, the ones casting that eerie glow over the landscape, also incorporate my lightning, my wash lights on the graves or on the props can subtly change their hue or down right change color, blackout, strobe, etc... to guide the guests attention where i want it. each fixture can be individually controlled or grouped with like scenes and fixtures as is best for the look. 

all of my power is now to commercial event code. 10awg SOOW cords with GFCI, multi-leader drops, etc. gives me a lot more freedom to place power hungry foggers where i want and gives me piece of mind that everyone is safe. 

speaking of safety, i have now incorporated a big red kill switch. If anything happens, I can kill and vent all air to the pneumatic props in one fell swoop. 

water... yea, i got tired of being rained out, the controllers are now ip67or 68 with nema 4x enclosures for quite a few. the connectors are industrial control style M12 waterproof or deutsch connectors where applicable. my relay boards are smaller and cheaper, i use more low voltage DC than AC now and thats just the start. 

so. feel free to ask questions and I will start trying to get more guides, tutorials, pictures, and videos up about why exactly the neighbors think I've lost it.


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## Rev. Noch (Sep 2, 2008)

Excellent! I still use DMX for a large chunk of my haunt. I'm all for learning better ways to do it. The water proof boxes and electrical sound very interesting.

Haven't thought about wireless DMX a whole lot since I actually have cat5 buried under the lawn and running to each section of the yard. Though I'm sure I can still find good uses for it.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

Im hoping to get some good pictures up pretty soon. I strongly prefer wire, however for some of my props the wireless was far more simple and with as many lights as i have it would take a long time to get the new infrastructure in the new yard ( still working out where things will end up) I am also able to put a few high power lights in the neighbors yard ( shh don't tell) on a 12ft stand, then i can coat the entire block in controlled lighting ( color, lighting effects, etc) so the wireless definitely has its place. The boards Im using are tranceivers, so i can actually use a wired prop as a transmitter to nearby wireless or wire props up to a central receiving prop. so it isn't all or nothing. The key to my weatherproofing so far has been DMX relay boards that are 3ch and are a touch bigger than an altoid tin. The boards really made everything significantly more compact, and as they are self contained DMX relay controllers, they decreased my points of failure. the key to weatherproofing is in the size of the electronics and in the heat dissipated. You want to keep heat out of the enclosures so that you can eliminate/reduce venting, I do this by using external and waterproof power supplies for for the high wattage stuff. 

Keeping size down is important because weather/waterproof containers get exponentially more expensive as they go up in size... 
Now the real cost, believe it or not, is connectors and pass-throughs. Any time you penetrate the enclosure it needs to be sealed, sometimes this can just be a cable gland that passes through and seals the permanently attached cable. I am very fond of being able to disconnect my cables from the control box, so multi pin IP rated connectors ( that will last ) are a must but are not cheap. so the more you can get on a board and keep in the enclosure the better. less to seal. less to connect. less to leak.


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