# POLL-Halloween date please answer



## ICKYVICKI (Sep 12, 2003)

Have you heard about the movement to move halloween to the first Saturday in October? Pumpkinmasters (the pumpkin stencil people) started a petition a couple years ago to change the date. I signed the petition online but never heard anything back. I think this would be great for a few reasons.
1. The kiddies don't have school the next day.
2. The weather would most likely be better (no snow!)
3. The kids could sleep in late on halloween, then they could stay up later.
4. More time to prepare for the evenings events.
What do you think????


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## Spooky Chuck (Jun 14, 2003)

I think the LAST Saturday in October sounds a little more reasonable. But I don't think there is much chance of moving a holliday back almost a whole month. I kinda like it where it is. Just think of the people who start decorating Oct 1st,,,, The decorations will only be up for a week! Thy may mean well,,,, But there is nothing wrong with the 31st. Just my opinion.


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## spooky (Sep 18, 2002)

I think Halloween should stay right where it is.


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## ZacharyBinks (Mar 23, 2003)

I agree Halloween should stay on October 31. That is the original day of All Hallows eve and just because the customs might have changed doesnt mean the Day should


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## David Knoles (Jun 18, 2002)

Amen, Spooky. Halloween is October 31. It isn't some convenient date that has no meaning and significance. I think the idea of changing it is dreadful. What's next, moving Christmas so it's always a three-day weekend? And something else...it never snows in Los Angeles...but it is hotter than hell and the sun is still up until after 7 p.m. during the first week of October.

Your friendly neighborhood Wizard


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## LostboY (Aug 21, 2003)

I like the tradition of the last day of October personally. I do see the points you are making though...but most people have started changing when they celebrate anyway...

LosT


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## sprfly (Oct 19, 2002)

*Yeah, and I want to move Thanksgiving to coincide with the Superbowl. Move Halloween...that's ludicrous!!!

-fly*


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## ICKYVICKI (Sep 12, 2003)

O.K. O.K. I see your points! It's just over so fast. I mean, you get up, go to school, have a party, rush home from school, go to grandma's, try to eat something for dinner, get ready, etc. It's just not enough time. I love it so much, I want the fun to last. This Halloween is on a Friday, but next year is leap year so Halloween will be on Sunday! I guess it will be a long time before Halloween is on a Saturday![V]


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## rod spain (Aug 27, 2002)

Now hold on to yerself little lass!Just because the TOTs go out ONE night(Oct.31)doesn't mean that you or anyone else can't celebrate Halloween all month long.Gear up for the 31st,start getting psyched on Oct 1st,get at least the inside decorations done the first week of October.Hey even have a few mini-PRE halloween parties or get togethers.

rod spain


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## Shadojack (Sep 7, 2003)

I heard in Salem Mass they have a three week Halloween celebration. Would I love to be there for that. But there's to much history on Halloween to move it. Kids will just have to adjust like we did.

"Even while I breathed there came to my nostrils the breath of the vapor of heated iron. A suffocating odor pervaded the prison. A deeper glow settled each moment in the eyes that glared at my agonies. A richer tint of crimson diffused itself over the pictured horrors of blood. There could be no doubt of the design of my tormentors. Oh, most unrelenting! Oh, most demoniac of men! 'Death,' I said, 'any death but that of the pit.'"


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## Spooky Chuck (Jun 14, 2003)

Rod is right! I personally celebrate Halloween the whole month of October. The 31st is only a small part of it!


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## David Knoles (Jun 18, 2002)

And listen, we open the Shipwreck event at the Queen Mary on Oct 10 and keep it going until Novemember first. That's 17 nights of running around in a costume and make up scaring the ship out of everyone who comes to this massive, haunted event. Over at Knott's Berry Farm, meanwhile, they open Halloween Haunt on the first and keep it up and running for as many as 25 nights. This is high intensity Halloween celebrating...but still, there is only one, true Halloween night...and that's on the 31st!


Your friendly neighborhood Wizard


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## putrid (Aug 18, 2002)

To me it wouldn't matter what night it's on. It's an American holiday. If I'm not mistaken there has been one or two holidays moved from there original dates. I think Thanksgiving was one. No harm done. And if you think about it you would end up with TWO Halloweens in October. The first being the moved date for the TOTs. The real date would end up more for the adults. Hmmm.... sounds like a good idea to me. So we end up with the 'harvest festival' and the real Halloween. I hope this doesn't mean we have to give candy out twice. Deb and I couldn't afford that. As long as there petitioning why don't they go all out and get Halloween billed as a religious or patriotic holiday so we can get another day off from work.




Personal hygiene 101 from your O.C.C.O.C.P. There's nothing in the air, that's me your smelling.


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## wytchy (May 26, 2003)

AHEM, Halloween is not an American holiday, if it is an AMERICAN holiday then how come loads of other places have it too, not in the least Britain! I think that moving it is an idiotic idea. Halloween is the 31st and always will be. Sorry to offend anyone, but that is REALLY stupid.

Missy Witchy


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## moonstarling61 (Aug 13, 2003)

> quote:It isn't some convenient date that has no meaning and significance


 I have to totally agree on this... There are *MANY* of us that practice a different type of being then the Christian Calender.

There is a REASON Halloween is October 31st. Besides, around here it ALL starts Sept. 23rd, the first day of Fall & harvest.

* They* can *want* to 'move it' (bwhahahahaha) all they want but we will always celebrate it correctly on our calender. This has been a Stregarian tradition since my grandmother came over on a boat from Italy.
ann~~

"Does this scare you?"
SM- 
little shop 
of horrors


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## moonstarling61 (Aug 13, 2003)

> quote:O.K. O.K. I see your points! It's just over so fast. I mean, you get up, go to school, have a party, rush home from school, go to grandma's, try to eat something for dinner, get ready, etc. It's just not enough time. I love it so much, I want the fun to last.


 So why do you 'start' on the 31st then? I have Halloween decorations in my home all year long. I like many others have been preparing and working on props for months now.
My husband says no decoration until the 1st of October... yeah, he says that EVERY year. That is one battle I *WIN* every year.
MY excuse (like I need one) to start early is I have a HUGE party to prepare for on a limited budget. So as soon as the stores put stuff out I am shopping. We usually do costumes & store bought props first. 
Actually due to time constraints I bought my costume online the end of July.
Today I am headed to Party City (an hour drive from me) I am more then PSYCHED and very busy doing Cemetary columns, floating ghosts, a skeletal pirates display....it is only the 13th of September.

ann~~

"Does this scare you?"
SM- 
little shop 
of horrors


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## putrid (Aug 18, 2002)

Sorry. Didn't mean to offend anyone. The way we celebrate Halloween has evolved. It's this evolution in our country I was referring to. My reference to 'an American holiday' was to point out that even if the date was changed, like other holidays have, it would just be a farther evolution of Halloween in our country. Immigration is what brought America it's holidays and heritage. We took everything and put it in a pot and out comes the way we celebrate Halloween today. If we happen to move the pot to a new date, it would still be Halloween. And if the first Saturday is the first day of October maybe Halloween would last all 31 days. I can dream.....

Another point to think about. As a country we’ve never celebrated Halloween as a religious holiday. Perhaps by moving the secular observance the date would be more observed by those who follow religions who’s holiday falls on that day.



Personal hygiene 101 from your O.C.C.O.C.P. There's nothing in the air, that's me your smelling.


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## moonstarling61 (Aug 13, 2003)

ahhh Putrid....
See YOU may not celbrate it as a "religous holiday" but for some of us it IS a religous holiday and the largest one on our calender..Known as Samhain. <large grins>

ann~~

"Does this scare you?"
SM- 
little shop 
of horrors


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## lordwolfgangkrauser (Apr 19, 2002)

Move Halloween, no way it must stay were it is.


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## rod spain (Aug 27, 2002)

And the rockets red glare!Ohhh sorry I was getting into Putrid's speech and it made me a little Putridotic(yuk,yuk).Personally,Oct 31 (like many of you have said)has a personal significance to each and every one of us .It DOES seem odd why all of a sudden take a holiday that for centuries has been celebrated on a given date & move it to accomodate the masses.It is a tradition on that particular date religious or otherwise.So there!lol.

rod spain


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## David Knoles (Jun 18, 2002)

You know, about the only country that doesn't celebrate Halloween because it's considered an "American" holiday is Australia. But what the Aussies don't seem to realize is that Halloween is about as American in its origins as Kidney Pie. Most of the strongest Halloween origins come from the Celts and Druids of Great Britian and Ireland, and most of the traditions we still honor today were brought here by Irish immegrants. The only Halloween tradition that is truely American is the Jack O'Lantern made from a pumpkin -- since the pumpkin itself is an indiginous American fruit. Halloween, All Hallows Eve, is set on the 31st, because in the old Celtic calander, that date was the true end of summer celebrated with the festival of Samhain (pronounced SOW in) lord of the dead. You can't move a tradition like that around simply because a bunch of kids don't feel like going to school the next day! We all dealt with it in our time, so can this new breed of age of entitlement brats!


Your friendly neighborhood Wizard


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## larry (Apr 5, 2002)

Applause for David.

Yep, Halloween will always be on October 31. It better because I live in Nevada. Oct 31 is Nevada Day so it makes October 31, a state holiday. Most places stay open though.

--------
Larry M.

www.TheHalloweenNetwork.com


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## creepybob (Jul 27, 2003)

I think it should stay on the 31st. I do see the point of moving it to the weekend though. That would actually work out for all of us and make the haunt a real success but sadly you can't have it all.

They mostly come out at night........Mostly
Check out my pic's at 
http://www.halloweenforum.com/photo_album_view.asp?cname=2002+home+haunt&mid=416&cid=1013


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## rod spain (Aug 27, 2002)

Hey David,were you calling us a bunch of SOWS?!

rod spain


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## Hooded Shadow (Aug 29, 2003)

Heck yea, it should stay Oct 31, it wouldnt be the same... 

[8] Hooded [8]

Queen of Hearts, King of Spades, when you die, I'll make you pay


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## Di-Ellen (Aug 27, 2003)

I do not think that this would please the spirits...

Dark Gardener


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## ICKYVICKI (Sep 12, 2003)

Boy, I'm really sorry I started this topic! Not a good way for a newbie to start out! After reading all your posts I've come to my senses and agree Halloween should not be moved up. I just hope for good weather![:X]


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## creepybob (Jul 27, 2003)

Hey don't sweat it Icky, that's what forums are for.

They mostly come out at night........Mostly
Check out my pic's at 
http://www.halloweenforum.com/photo_album_view.asp?cname=2002+home+haunt&mid=416&cid=1013


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## putrid (Aug 18, 2002)

Oooo that makes me the 'bad guy' again! I LOVE IT! LOL ICKYVICKI your topic is a good one. I think it was a great way for a newbie to start. Getting people to talk is what it's all about.



Personal hygiene 101 from your O.C.C.O.C.P. There's nothing in the air, that's me your smelling.


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## Spooky Chuck (Jun 14, 2003)

Don't feel bad Icky,,, We all had fun talking about it! If it was up to me, we would have Halloween twice a year! Maybe we should pay more attention to Walpurgis, April 30th. What do you think Moonstarling? We can have fun on the other side of the calender also!!!


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## creepybob (Jul 27, 2003)

I agree putrid. That's a brave way for a "newbie" to start out.

They mostly come out at night........Mostly
Check out my pic's at 
http://www.halloweenforum.com/photo_album_view.asp?cname=2002+home+haunt&mid=416&cid=1013


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## David Knoles (Jun 18, 2002)

A bit like saying "Why don't we make those monsters and ghouls cute, cause a child might be scaried," but brave.

Your friendly neighborhood Wizard


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## putrid (Aug 18, 2002)

I Hate cute. I hate cute for Halloween. I hate cute for Christmas. I hate cute home decor. And I really hate precious moments. Sad kids with cocaine eyes isn't precious. Stoned big headed kids arn't cute. Cows, chickens and pigs with big eyes is just plain sick. Bats cats and monsters with cutesy grins and glaucoma need to stay off the valume. Why do they insist on making things look like they're stoned out of there mind? How can you expect to keep your kids off of drugs when everything in your house looks like it's been eating Jamaican brownies for the last five years?....wow did I rant or what....


Personal hygiene 101 from your O.C.C.O.C.P. There's nothing in the air, that's me your smelling.


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## rod spain (Aug 27, 2002)

Hey Putrid People think you're cute and you STINK!LOL.Just poking fun,bud!

rod spain


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## nyteshade74 (Sep 23, 2003)

Changing the date of halloween would be like changing the date of 
christmas, you just can't do it! Halloween is technically called
"All Hallows Eve" which means it's the night before the celebration on
November 1st. Just because mainstream customs may have changed,
doesn't mean that others don't still practice certain customs.
It resides on the 31st of October for a reason and perhaps "Pumpkin Masters" ought to do a little research before they piss off a bunch of people. No one would EVER think of changing the date of christmas so that it's easier for people to have parties and the kiddies can stay up late, well this is the same idea. The customs and practices of Halloween have been around for centuries, it's not something that can just be changed because someone thought it was a good idea. 

Not to mention the fact that not everyone has saturdays free. Some people actually WORK on saturday. I love how these people think that just because THEY don't work on the weekends that no one does. Or that the people who do work the weekend do not matter.


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## nyteshade74 (Sep 23, 2003)

IT's a PLOT to suppress the Wiccan religon.
But they will never put this through. We'll start a petition to change the date of christmas.


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## rod spain (Aug 27, 2002)

Yea lets change xmas to Oct31!Man what a party that would be!

rod spain


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## wytchy (May 26, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by moonstarling61_
> 
> ahhh Putrid....
> See YOU may not celbrate it as a "religous holiday" but for some of us it IS a religous holiday and the largest one on our calender..Known as Samhain. <large grins>


Heh heh heh... Yup.

Missy Witchy


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## sheepies666 (Sep 22, 2003)

I do NOT think they should change when Hallowe'en is...they should make October 31st a Statutory Holdiay!!! Like Christmas (only more fun & important).

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/103670/GothSheep.jpg


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## Mr_Nobody (Aug 24, 2003)

It won't fly. Halloween is one of those things that will always be where it is. It's not something they can just go "Oh...we're changing Halloween this year" because even though most people in the US don't celebrate Halloween for the religious affiliation, it does have it, and they won't change it, because it has always been a set day for hundreds (if not longer) of years. So I'm not too terribly worried about it.

Although, if memory serves me, don't they change the day people are supposed to Trick or Treat if Halloween falls on Sunday? And seeing Halloween falls on Sunday next year, will that be the case for next year?

"People want to know why I do this, why I write such gross stuff. I like to tell them I have the heart of a small boy -- and I keep it in a jar on my desk." - Stephen King


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## rod spain (Aug 27, 2002)

Personally I think Halloween should be all year round.You know,Xmas corpses,St patrick day corpses,easter corpses,etc.!

rod spain


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## David Knoles (Jun 18, 2002)

In my house, Rod, it always IS!



Your friendly neighborhood Wizard


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## rod spain (Aug 27, 2002)

Then lets go to your place for Halloween xmas,halloween easter,halloween st.Patrick day etc!

rod spain


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## Soul Survivor (Aug 18, 2003)

There is only ONE halloween.

Go back to the Addams Family! 

Cassie,Soul Survivors


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## Shadojack (Sep 7, 2003)

Man there are some really creepy people in here. I knew I came to the right place. I'd like em to make Halloween a National Holiday. So we either get the day off or overtime. I hate working on my second favorite holiday. Cuts into my horror movie viewing time.

"Even while I breathed there came to my nostrils the breath of the vapor of heated iron. A suffocating odor pervaded the prison. A deeper glow settled each moment in the eyes that glared at my agonies. A richer tint of crimson diffused itself over the pictured horrors of blood. There could be no doubt of the design of my tormentors. Oh, most unrelenting! Oh, most demoniac of men! 'Death,' I said, 'any death but that of the pit.'"


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## LostboY (Aug 21, 2003)

Second favorite holiday? WHAT? ITS NOT YOUR FIRST? For shame. 

LosT


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## Shadojack (Sep 7, 2003)

Shame Shame Shame on me. Well Christmas has always been my favorite due to it being a more family holiday. But would it help is I said it was running close enough to give Christmas a run for it's money?

"Even while I breathed there came to my nostrils the breath of the vapor of heated iron. A suffocating odor pervaded the prison. A deeper glow settled each moment in the eyes that glared at my agonies. A richer tint of crimson diffused itself over the pictured horrors of blood. There could be no doubt of the design of my tormentors. Oh, most unrelenting! Oh, most demoniac of men! 'Death,' I said, 'any death but that of the pit.'"


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## rod spain (Aug 27, 2002)

No!Halloween is number 1!lol.But you are correct,Halloween is running so close to xmas that it is almost tied for 1st place.

rod spain


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## moonstarling61 (Aug 13, 2003)

WHAT? Halloween is NOT #1...Is in this house 
I don't really care for Xmas with 3 kids it costs wayyyy too many $$.
I pretty much slowed them down the year I made them serve dinner at a Shelter run by a friend of ours  Tried to show them that all the commercialism & BS of spending more money then you have on UNwanted gifts or gifts for kids that sit in a closet until a garage sale is NOT necessary, or what it ALL was supposed to be about...... IT WORKED. 

Speaking of Halloween...I agree on the HOLIDAY thing. Actually, my son *just* said that yesterday... "WHY do we have to go to school on HAlloween?", it should be a HOLIDAY... Hmmmmmm, just *MAYBE* I'll make it a HOLIDAY for them . I am very good at bucking society, heheheheheheh
ann~~

"Does this scare you?"
 SM- 
little shop 
of horrors


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## rod spain (Aug 27, 2002)

Totally Cool idea Moon,gear them kids up for the night's festivities.I am glad that you are trying to "Retrain"your kids's thinking about xmas.Xmas is wayyy to commericalized and we the parents are the ones that suffer financially and the kids turn out to be spoiled brats when they don't get everything that they wanted.I wish the government had a mandatory xmas camp that you send kids to to "reprogram" their thinking about what xmas is suppose to be.Well then again how would the government make their money?

rod spain


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## moonstarling61 (Aug 13, 2003)

Besides making them serve XMAS dinner at a homeless shelter.... the BEST thing I ever did was move the hell outta Naples... Land of the Spoiled children, LOL!
"The overcompensation of mommie & daddy do not spend time with you, so let's buy you everything you want."
In Mt. Dora there is a lot more people like US. Blue collar, paycheck to paycheck families.
My kids act like going to the movies is going to Disney for the day. That is how UNspoiled they are 

Back to the HOLIDAY (on topic, on topic)
I'll probably give them the day off  I do that occassionally. I call it "the everyone needs a day off day"---- better then having them 'skip' school once they get older.
What better day then HALLOWEEN. So glad it's a friday this year, wooohooooo

ann~~

"Does this scare you?"
SM- 
little shop 
of horrors


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## rod spain (Aug 27, 2002)

Call it a DEmental Day!

rod spain


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## Thirteen (Feb 17, 2003)

Dear mr. spain. doris furgusson here. don't you realize that by encouraging children to take days off to enjoy halloween you are damaging them? they shouldmt be taught to have fun. they shoudl be taught to work and work and hate everything except big cars, big houses and the republican party. at least that is what we think here at the NATION ASSOCIATION OF MOTHERS AGAINST FUN.

rememember our moto

Broccoli...it's good for you...eat it!


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## moonstarling61 (Aug 13, 2003)

oh sigh mommie & daddy removed the parental controls again..I *THOUGHT* this forum was free of that.

OH BTW..READ it was ME who gives my kids free days NOT Mr. Spain

"Does this scare you?"
SM- 
little shop 
of horrors


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## David Knoles (Jun 18, 2002)

So Ann...I see you and Rod have made a new friend!

Your friendly neighborhood Wizard


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## moonstarling61 (Aug 13, 2003)

LOL and this is WHY parents need to monitor computer time... Sign in David! Sign in, hehehhehe


"Does this scare you?"
SM- 
little shop 
of horrors


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## spooked (Sep 26, 2003)

I too celebrate Halloween the whole month of October and I do not believe this day of celebration should be changed. For the spirits of Halloween would not understand and visit thy cemetery on the thirty first day of October anyway. I would be of heavy heart to tell them the day of their recognition has come and gone without them.


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## David Knoles (Jun 18, 2002)

Here, here, spooked. Halloween is one day and one day only. It always has and always will be!

Your friendly neighborhood Wizard


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## rod spain (Aug 27, 2002)

Hey Moon,Remember:Big Nasty Sister is Watching You! Personally my motto is...%)(&%^#()!

rod spain


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## David Knoles (Jun 18, 2002)

My favorite motos through the years...

"Surf's up!" (carefree high school days)
"All you need is love" (senior year Beatles days)
"Hell no, we won't go!" (scared spitless right out of high school Vietnam draft days)
"Never trust anyone over 30" (college days)
"Truth, Justice and the American way" (dewy eyed first newspaper gig idealism days)
"Love the one you're with" (popular writer with a hot colum, lots of young babes and an ice-cube wife infidelity days)
"It just doesn't matter" (career crash, kick 'em like a dead horse, totally broke living in a 15"x15" studio apartment days)
"Any money spent on alcohol is money well spent" (wearing a badge and a leather Sam Brown Batman-type utility belt carrying stuff to scary to even look at days)
"Dead Guys Rock!" (Shipwreck professional monster days)
"What, me worry?" (Yesterday)
"Surf's up" (Today)



Your friendly neighborhood Wizard


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## moonstarling61 (Aug 13, 2003)

Dave those are great, but it is too early for my brain to work that hard to come up with any more......YET

"Does this scare you?"
SM- 
little shop 
of horrors


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## rod spain (Aug 27, 2002)

Get a cup of Caffine and shake the cobwebs out and jump on in!

rod spain


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## David Knoles (Jun 18, 2002)

Say, now there's a moto for you!


Your friendly neighborhood Wizard


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## ironmaiden (Aug 5, 2003)

While you all are talkin about the blasphemy of moving the date of Halloween I can tell you that in New Hampshire many towns HAVE done just that. Imagine my total shock when I moved here 17 years ago from California all psyched to finally celebrate my favorite holiday in what I consider the perfect setting, only to find that Halloween wasn't really celebrated on the 31st. It seems that the various boards of selectmen who basically run each town across the state CHOOSE which day the kids are allowed to go door to door. And in many towns that is the last Sunday before Halloween AND they even set the time. For example in the state's largest city, Manchester, trick or treating will be held this year on the 26th between the hours of 1pm and 4pm.
Yep, broad daylight [:0]. Sorry but it just kills the mood. Now my husband who is a native, only recalls going out at night when he was a kid and seems to think that this all began as a result of the Tylenol poisonings. And how many years ago was that?? Comon, enough with the paranoia. 
Alas my dream of a dark Yankee Halloween lie dormant for many years until a few towns began changing back to tradition. The town where my mom lived was one of the first. Thus I as a thirtysomething kid fullfilled my childhood fantasy of dressing up and going door to door on a truly dark and spooky night with the sound of leaves beneath my feet as my black cape blew all about in the chilled air.....
Hey I am pretty short, I got away with it for several years and my husband sure enjoyed the candy. I kept thinking "if they only knew who was behind this mask []"
Last year my own town moved Halloween back to it's traditional day after several residents wrote a letter to the local paper asking all of us to call the town hall and plead for the change. And they finally listened, albeit they only designated the hours of 6pm-8pm for tricks or treats but it was a start anyways. And there were so very many more kids out because who the hell wants to dress up and go door to door when the sun is out? That is what prompted me to really go all out with the decor last year. I have waited years for this. It finally FEELS like Halloween.
Now why these people allow others to dictate to them when a holiday is to be celebrated I have never understood. Especially here in New England,land of the fiercely independent Yankee. Try telling a Californian when they can go trick or treating , my brother and I used to leave the house just as it became dark and not return home until near 10 pm. I find it sad to think that there is an entire generation of kids who never experienced the true spirit of Halloween  
Sorry that I rambled on but this is a particularly sore subject for me. I absolutely cannot fathom why anyone would consider such a thing. I have lived the alternative holiday crap and it stinks.

ironmaiden

New England:America's Original Haunted Attraction


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## David Knoles (Jun 18, 2002)

Ironmaiden...I, as well as Wicked and Eeire Myst STILL live in California, and even though there aren't any trick or treaters on my street, on Halloween night the kids still smell candy and they're still out till ten (or later). All the city here does is put on more cops to watch the kids (oksy, it's also to catch the drunks, since a DUI is the most lucrative ticket a city can give!)


Your friendly neighborhood Wizard


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## bela L. (Sep 26, 2003)

Hey,

I would like to keep it where it is because my birthday is November 1st and there are times when I get to celebrate it on Halloween. As far as having it on Saturday every year... that would benefit parents more than the kids. It is hard to get home from work and rush to get ready. I never minded going to school the day after Halloween when I was a kid. These days I take the day off on Halloween to get my yard ready, you know, last minute details.

I agree that it should stay on October 31st because of historyical reasons. Besides the 31st just has a ring to it. (maybe because I am used to it).

Bela

Listen to them. The children of the night. What music they make.


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## wicked (Aug 27, 2002)

*Ironmaiden, I feel so bad for you--have you considered moving? Tho I hear there are other states doing the same thing--Maybe it's only a matter of time David, before The "Evil" gets US TOO! 

By the way IronMaiden...Welcome to our beloved Halloween forum--where freedom STILL exists---COME and celebrate with us HALLOWEEN 365 Days a year!!*

The banshee shrieks with* WICKED* delight, on this a cold and death filled night!


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## ironmaiden (Aug 5, 2003)

Hi Wicked,
If I were to move it would only be within NH or maybe to Vermont. There is no way I can adequately describe how beautiful New England is in the autumn. The colors are nothing short of breathtaking. It is the very essense of Halloween. It was this beauty that drew myself, mom, brother to move here. Autumn's glory is what makes the other three seasons tolerable
Spring is cold and wet while summer is humid and wet. Winter on the other hand is just plain cold. September and October are gorgeous.
Now that Halloween is back where it should be I can really enjoy it again. For that I am 
David, maybe Halloween has changed out west, after all it has been a long time since I lived there. Guess I can at least be glad I grew up in a different era.
ironmaiden

New England:America's Original Haunted Attraction


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## wicked (Aug 27, 2002)

Now that Halloween is back where it should be I can really enjoy it again. *OK, I'm confused--you mean back in the PLACE it should be? Not the date (Where), right?*


The banshee shrieks with* WICKED* delight, on this a cold and death filled night!


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## David Knoles (Jun 18, 2002)

Forget about her, Wicked. She's turned her back on California and become some sort of bizzare Yankee. Or New Englander. Or something else totally foreighn. She might as well have moved to Canada, or Australia or even England for that matter.

Your friendly neighborhood Wizard


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## wicked (Aug 27, 2002)

*That's kinda harsh isn't? Do you know her? Is she one of your exes'? BooyaH....Bust out that Cat O' Nines on her David! LOL*

The banshee shrieks with* WICKED* delight, on this a cold and death filled night!


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## ironmaiden (Aug 5, 2003)

What I meant to say is now that many NH towns are celebrating Halloween on the 31st again I am really able to enjoy it more than I have in a long time.
I am no one's ex, however that cat o' nine suggestion sounds rather intriguing 
Oh and a native Californian never completely forgets their former way of life [8D] Remember, "you can check out anytime you like but you can never leave".

ironmaiden

New England:America's Original Haunted Attraction


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## Apex Fear (Sep 28, 2003)

No way should Halloween be "moved"!! My husband and I got married October 31st to be married ON Halloween! We can't very well change our anniverary now can we?[^]

Apex 

"Now, be a good little ghoulie! Eat all your brains. Make sure your horror homework's done. Tonite's a special nite for all those insane to stay out late and have some fun..."-Rayven Fear FSSSK


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## Apex Fear (Sep 28, 2003)

By the way, I put just a couple of our "wed-o-ween" pics in my photo album...

Apex 

"Now, be a good little ghoulie! Eat all your brains. Make sure your horror homework's done. Tonite's a special nite for all those insane to stay out late and have some fun..."-Rayven Fear FSSSK


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## putrid (Aug 18, 2002)

Wow David, I just have one favorite moto,

"The grass is always greener where the dogs have sh--."



Personal hygiene 101 from your O.C.C.O.C.P. There's nothing in the air, that's me your smelling.


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## David Knoles (Jun 18, 2002)

No wonder the grass is so high around here. And it's not just the dogs, either. Thanks for explaining that to me. I was about to buy a mower.


Your friendly neighborhood Wizard


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## moonstarling61 (Aug 13, 2003)

Putrid,

That was Funny....I've been to New Hampshire, Exeter. It was Decmber. I am born & raised a Floridian. I thought i was gonna die I was soooooooo cold. I will admit it was absolutely beautiful.

See in Florida we don't execute people who move OUT of the state.... because there are only like 10 of us ORIGINALLY from the state to begin with. )

Welcome Iron Maiden.... & Apex Fear.

Morticia.

"Does this scare you?"
SM- 
little shop 
of horrors


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## rod spain (Aug 27, 2002)

Well if the grass is greener and high because of the dogs then I've got a damn jungle in my front & back yard!

rod spain


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## ICKYVICKI (Sep 12, 2003)

Don't you have to be at least 65 to live in Florida?

You can't spell Vicky without Icky !


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## moonstarling61 (Aug 13, 2003)

Hey ICKY 
Some of us were just *lucky* enough to be born in the State of the Living DEAD, hehehehhehe

I don't admit it often, either. Besides remember the Living Dead need us blue color Trades people. 

Morticia



SARAH::"I'll be the Victim!!!"

WEDNESDAY's REPLY:: "ALL YOUR LIFE"- 

**Addams FAMILY VALUES**


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## rod spain (Aug 27, 2002)

Don't you want to live in those "gated communities"?lol!

rod spain


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## moonstarling61 (Aug 13, 2003)

would be a dream come true......doncha think? The condo comandos telling me exactly HOW I could decorate? LOL

No Rod I'll take my little old 2 br less then 1000Sq ft house with it's creaky floors ANY DAY. LOL!!!



SARAH::"I'll be the Victim!!!"

WEDNESDAY's REPLY:: "ALL YOUR LIFE"- 

**Addams FAMILY VALUES**


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## smurfy7 (Oct 1, 2003)

I think halloween is perfect where it's at. Like a lot of other people I celebrate the whole month untill the fanale, Halloween  

Ro

A.C.R


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## Fake Piggy (Oct 5, 2003)

I rather cherish sticking to the traditional date for one of our last surviving pagan festivals, but a longer celebration period would be nice. Like, when the last FRIDAY (the 13th?!! Freaky Friday?) or Saturday of the month falls short of the 31th, one could have the option of keeping the fun going up to that time. Or, one could have Friday/Saturday as "Trick or Treat Day" for the kids, but keep October 31th as the official holiday, celebrated with more solemn activities to honor the dead.

"see the shOW!!!!!!!!"


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## witchywoman (Oct 11, 2003)

[}]Leave Halloween right where it is! On my birthday, Oct. 31st![}] Cast my best spells then, I do![}]

Cyndi


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## littlespook (Aug 11, 2003)

Halloween, October 31st, no changing it!

littlespook

chele belly


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## E.F. Benson (Aug 29, 2002)

Leave it and all the other holidays alone.


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## dazco (Oct 1, 2003)

I do see the benefit of having it on a saturady every year. Thats a MAJOR plus. But i am also a traditionalist who feels that changing certain things is not good for reasons too involved to go into. So i say no. To put it in simple terms w/o going into details, some things need to stay the same in order to preserve tradition. It's important as far as i'm concerned.


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## MikeHH8760 (Oct 12, 2003)

[8D] Move Halloween? You've got to be kidding!!! It has always been, and hopefully will always be, the evening of October 31st, although personally, I wish it were every day of the year!!

MHH8760


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## wytchy (May 26, 2003)

It's my dad and cousin's birthdays on Halloween, they are so lucky!

- Wytchy


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## RubyWyld (Oct 21, 2003)

I think the change in date would be a great thing, especially to us parents. There is nothing worse than having to wait for the kids to get home from school, the hubby to get home from work, feed everyone, dress the kids up and then finally head out to trick or treat. And if it's a school night expect plenty of whines about how it's too early to go back home, no late night scary movies either.

As far as the whole "it's a holiday" thing...well for one thing the original 'ancient' holiday was not specified by a calendar date, and certainly not by the calender system we use today. It would have varied from place to place depending on the seasons and harvesting schedules. Also Halloween is not a legally recognized 'Holiday' per say...nothing is closed, we all go to work and school ect. It is a day that has over time evolved into it's own day of mischief and fun for kids and adults. For those Pagans who still want to celebrate or honor the day because of it's history they can just as easily do that on the 31st regardless.


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## sheepies666 (Sep 22, 2003)

That's why I think that Hallowe'en SHOULD be recognized as a holiday! The date shouldn't be changed, but it should be made into a statutory holiday, so that no one has to work and the kids don't have to go to school. Best of both worlds that way!


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## RubyWyld (Oct 21, 2003)

Good point, solves both concerns...I say give us the whole damn week. Who needs Feb. or April vacation...who needs Thanksgiving?...Give us a week of Halloween!


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## Patrick Malone (Jan 30, 2004)

To begin with, Halloween (aka Hallowe'en, Hallowmass, Samhain (not pronounced SOW-en as the fool above describes, but closer to zAh-wen ... at least it is if you are from Cork like myself), and the Eve of All Saints Day) was not originally on 31st of October, nor was it originally the day before All Saints Day, nor does it arise from any pre-Wiccan nonsense.

Samhain, like its neolithic predecessor, was originally on November 5th (the halfway between the autumnal equinox and the winter solstice). It was backed up to the 31st to fall in line with a holiday of the Catholic Church - all the better to round up those "godless heathens." That holiday is, of course, All Saints Day...and it's date was moved as well.

Now, for those of you who wish to espouse Halloween, or Samhain, as part of their "religious / spiritual" beliefs ... you should learn a great deal more about what it is you call, "your beliefs."

The worst purveyor's of this are, of course, those who call themselves "Wiccan". Whether these people (1) had a bad experience and, like their predecessor, possess some intrinsic hatred of the Christian religion (2) have a strong need to feel "special" and seek something external to get it (3) or (the terribly few) have bothered to actually "LEARN" what it is they call their "beliefs" ... they need to understand that "Wicca" and Samhain share essentially nothing.

Wicca was formally organized and developed primarily by Gerald Gardner during the 1940's - 1950', with some help from then withering Aleister Crowley and Doreen Valiente (an astute Wiccan writer and one time intimate of Gardner's). The most ridiculous example of this rests in the Third Degree ritual that is very nearly a plagerized copy of Crowley's work, published in the Equinox. Further, the "Book of Shadows" was hand written by Gerald Gardner (compiled from several works he had been authoring for some time...and work lifted from Crowley) - currently owned by the Ripley International Ltd. (Believe it...or not). Prior to Gardner's work, only Crowley's extensive work developing the OTO existed as the seminal form. In fact, the first Wiccan group received its charter from the OTO and that charter can be examined by contacting Allen Greenfield, Missionary Bishop of T. Michael Bertiaux's Gnostic Church.

The most frustrating development since that time is the near pandemic publication of the worst neo-hippie-zoomed-pagan gibberish one could hope to never imagine ... and oh so many can't wait to line their coffers with money selling this Halloween tripe (remember - publishing a book is a business...we go into business to make money, not spread the gospel from the latest Book of Faerie Crystal Magik).

Halloween on the last Saturday of the month? Wonderful idea! American's developed the western tradition of Halloween to its present state - then packaged it up like the latest super-squeezy bottle of detergent and sold it to any country that didn't have it. Why not give our tender lumplings a nicer time of it and ensure no school tomorrow? Why not make the celebration more festive by allowing us adults time to recouperate? Saturday? Let's do it!


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## larry (Apr 5, 2002)

Patrick Malone,

Your views are welcome. But please do not call anybody names such as fool.
At least 3 well-knowned historians pronounce Samhain sow-en. The history channel pronounces it that way also. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=how+to+pronounce+Samhain

I sure understand that you may be frustrated. But even if that is wrong, it is how all of the experts that I know of pronounce it.

I am sure that you can get your point accross without the negativity.

Thank you,

Larry


> quote:_Originally posted by Patrick Malone_
> 
> To begin with, Halloween (aka Hallowe'en, Hallowmass, Samhain (not pronounced SOW-en as the fool above describes, but closer to zAh-wen ... at least it is if you are from Cork like myself), and the Eve of All Saints Day) was not originally on 31st of October, nor was it originally the day before All Saints Day, nor does it arise from any pre-Wiccan nonsense.
> 
> ...


--------
Larry M.

www.TheHalloweenNetwork.com


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## Gym Whourlfeld (Jan 22, 2003)

Maybe Halloween is on October 31st because that's where it belongs and here is my reasoning.
Keeping track of time,measured by mechainical means versus a sundial, these two methods of measuring time will disagree with one another every day of the year except four. From one day to the next time will maybe be 3 minutes "fast" one day, then 5 minutes "Slow" the next, all up and down the mathematical spectrum, UNTIL it gets to October 31st, then on that one day there is a maximum reached of a 16 minute difference!
Maybe this is why people have a history of seeing strange things that day, or having strange experiences then, they might be seeing into a time aberration or a time warp?
Books concerning sundials have the chart that confirms this schedule of clocking differences.

"My Insanity is well-respected, until they wiggle free and become a stringer for a tabloid"


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## rod spain (Aug 27, 2002)

My personal feeling is IFpeople want to change the date of Halloween them why not change the date of Christmas since the "actual"birthdate of Jesus was supoose to have been sometime in April.And while we're at it lets change Thanksgiving and give all those poor butchered turkeys a few extra days of living.Remeber the quote from the movie Babe:Christmas is Carnage!

rod spain


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## ICKYVICKI (Sep 12, 2003)

I knew this topic would come back and bite me in the arse!

You can't spell Vicky without Icky !


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## Gym Whourlfeld (Jan 22, 2003)

Yes! Butt wut day will it be biting? Jan. 32?

"My Insanity is well-respected, until they wiggle free and become a stringer for a tabloid"


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## putrid (Aug 18, 2002)

Personal note ( it will be nice when we Christians can refer to other beliefs by there name without the word 'pagan'. I’m a Christian and I’m going to do my best NOT to use that word.)

I'm going to change my mind and say that Halloween should stay on the 31. BUT I think it should be taught and known for being a holiday of giving. Take away the costumes and decor and that's what you end up with. Good people freely giving to strangers. Take away the act of trick-or-treating and you lose a fine example of charity. Leave the holiday where it's at and leave the beliefs out of it. I wouldn't want to have to dress up like a Druid or Mosses.

The holiday as we celebrate it is American. The decor is traditionally American. Trick-or-treating is traditionally American. Just like Christmas we took the best of the old world, added our own flair and turned it into the holiday we have today. If you want to dress up like Jesus and stand on a street corner to hand out bibles to TOTs your still celebrating Halloween. If you dress up like the Dalai Lama and write down each TOTs desires on prayer flags your still celebrating Halloween. If you bless each TOT with a spell from Wicca your still celebrating Halloween. Your still giving of yourself, your resources and your time to strangers. And that is the American Halloween. 




I don't mind dead people. It's the ones who stick around that give me the creeps.


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## ICKYVICKI (Sep 12, 2003)

Great point Putrid! I never thought of it that way. I too, have changed my mind about switching the date of Halloween. I could never change the date! Even w/ the inconveniences of school,etc. It still wouldn't be the same any other day.

You can't spell Vicky without Icky !


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## Raef_Wolfe (Oct 1, 2003)

I'd say keep it. But it would be wonderful if it was always on a saturday. Who invented this 365 calendar shiznizzle, anyway? (Yes, I know...there are far to many civs to have invented it to give credit to)

I am but a wolf inside


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## bodybagging (Nov 18, 2003)

I just wanna vote on having halloween everyday all day all night.......or at least be able to leave my props outside year round....without having the inspector by the house on a daily basis...

I'm the best at what I do, What I do isn't very nice


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## putrid (Aug 18, 2002)

Boddybagging, see if your city gives special permits do display 'art' outdoors. Wouldn't it be nice to set something up with a nice permit tag on board? 




I don't mind dead people. It's the ones who stick around that give me the creeps.


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## bodybagging (Nov 18, 2003)

yeah I can see my lovely city doing something like that.....im lucky they let me stay..even though lately i am woindering if they are trying to be rid of me....

I'm the best at what I do, What I do isn't very nice


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## drunk_buzzard (Sep 9, 2003)

I still say we should just pick a spot somewhere warm and start a year-round Halloween city. Just like Frankenmuth in Michigan, which has Christmas all year round. It's a huge tourist attraction. We can have golf courses with a Halloween-theme. Some haunted houses of course. Wax museum, etc. It would be a blast!

"Howdy folks! Ya like blood, violence, freaks of nature?" -- Capt. Spaulding, House of 1000 Corpses


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## Shadojack (Sep 7, 2003)

Halloween has to much historical and cultural meaning to move. Leave it where it is.

"Even while I breathed there came to my nostrils the breath of the vapor of heated iron. A suffocating odor pervaded the prison. A deeper glow settled each moment in the eyes that glared at my agonies. A richer tint of crimson diffused itself over the pictured horrors of blood. There could be no doubt of the design of my tormentors. Oh, most unrelenting! Oh, most demoniac of men! 'Death,' I said, 'any death but that of the pit.'"


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## Patrick Malone (Jan 30, 2004)

Larry-

You are absolutely right, and I do appoligize. It becomes terrifically frustrating when sooo many people bandy about the language I grew up with. It's much like my uncle in the 'States - he lives in Boston and every time he hears 'Sell-ticks' instead of Celtics...he nearly vomits. What makes it harder is when you hear or see people trying to "teach" the pronounciation incorrectly as though and expert - there are MANY "experts" in the fields of literature and mythology, sociology and history that do this as a matter of routine. However, the only experts you should listen to concerning the pronounciation of the Irish languages, are the natural-born speakers of the language itself.

One example of "History-gone-wrong" is the philosopher, Kant - pronounced as "can't" and not "Kah-nt". The man was Scottish...his parents were from Scotland - he was simply raised in Germany...but his name wasn't German in origin.

You can see from my previous letter, Halloween is more than just a silly night of costumes for me - and as I am soon to move to the 'States, I look forward to celebrating it with even greater zeal. The notion of moving its day of observance might be better examined. I understand you have a day called, "President's Day" where the birth of George Washington and Abraham Lincoln are 'observed' together.

Perhaps a day of "Halloween Observance" as the last Saturday of October might be a better choice than actually moving the date?


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## David Knoles (Jun 18, 2002)

Patrick, dude, you might have noticed that nearly no one on this thread is in favor of moving the holiday. And I've not heard an official word anywhere from anyone about actually considering moving the holiday. Halloween is Oct. 31. So chill out. Open a Guiness. It isn't going to change.

And by the way, welcome to the forum. There's a lot of us here with Irish ancestry. But I think you're our first Irishman! Very cool!



As that fabulous Halloween superhero, MagicSlider, says; "DEAD GUYS ROCK!"


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## Di-Ellen (Aug 27, 2003)

I've said it before and I'll say it again...the veil is the thinnest on October 31st, you know- the WHOLE reasoning behind Halloween. Moving the date is definitely going to rattle some cages and pi$$ off the hallows! I would not want to be the fool that has to explain that one!

Dark Gardener


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## rod spain (Aug 27, 2002)

If ya gonna one,ya gotta change ALL of them!I say put Halloween where Xmas is,put xmas where St.Patricks Day is and while we're at it make Xmas somewhere in between Labor Day and Mother's day(especially if the mothers are expecting!).Yuk!yuk!

rod spain


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## Patrick Malone (Jan 30, 2004)

On the 25th of October, 1993, a wonderful friend passed on... personally, I wanted his life support maintained for 6 more days so that he might achieve an even greater position in the western world's mind than he already has - and forever will.

On the fateful day, lung cancer stole Vincent Price from the world and perhaps we might all consider beginning our observance of Halloween on that day, allowing it to complete on November 1st, the day of our Saints - I do, and it makes for a lovely week.


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## David Knoles (Jun 18, 2002)

Nice, Patrick, although personally, I begin the celebrating October first.

As that fabulous Halloween superhero, MagicSlider, says; "DEAD GUYS ROCK!"


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