# GAH! The dreaded "fall festival"!



## UnOrthodOx (Apr 24, 2007)

I've been struck with the dreaded Fall Festival! 

The school I was building the Laboratory setup for has bowed to complaints from parents, and is cancelling the Halloween Carnival they have done for ages in favor of a "Fall Festival". They still want me to bring in my setup, however. (I made more than any 2 other booths combined last year, including the meals they were selling)

What's more concerning to ME, however, is to further seperate it from Halloween, it's being pushed to Sept 14! 

Gotta go through and decide what projects are going to get the axe. I have a number of them at ~90% completed already, though, so it's not like I can't get A lab together in time, just won't be what I wanted it to. 

I've also gotta find somewhere to get me a bald cap, latex, and makeup together for my costume. 

Halloween in September for me...


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## digbugsgirl (Aug 15, 2007)

That sucks! I'm so tired of this "offending people" crap. How long has Halloween been around???? So many holidays are being sensored because 1 -2% of the poplulation is offended. Bah humbug to you, I say!! (not you, UnOrthodOx)


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## jdubbya (Oct 4, 2003)

I think I would simply decline to participate and let them know why. If your booth was a money maker and you don't show up, they'll notice. I'd also take every opportunity to let people know why you're not participating. You do this as part of a Halloween celebration, not a "fall festival" in September. You have a chance to send a message and not bow to the ignorance. Take it!


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## Tinaspaintedlady (Aug 7, 2008)

What parent gets offended by kids in costumes getting candy? Honestly think back when you were young and able to celebrate Halloween at school. It was the early seventies for me and we paraded down the hallways in our costumes and got candy, that was it. I have just about had it with the thin skin of many folks. Really it is getting old.


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## Halloweinerdog Lover (Jul 20, 2009)

That's horrible! I can't believe there is anyone out there who doesn't like Hallowe'en! I like fall decor and everything but Hallowe'en decorations definately trump!


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## eanderso13 (Mar 31, 2009)

What a load of BS! September isn't even fall, in my book! (and officially, Sept 14 isn't according to the calendar, either!)

Squeaky wheel gets the oil, thought, huh? Doesn't matter if its 1-2% of the population, as long as they ***** and moan louder than anyone else. There's always bound to be someone in a position of power who will bend like a wet noodle because that's how they got to that position...doing whatever the loudest complainers wanted!


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## stev1955 (Sep 26, 2008)

I never understood why the fear of offending a small minority of people outweighs offending a majority. I would think (or hope) there are more people that enjoy Halloween than those that fear it.


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## theworstwitch (Aug 14, 2006)

Are you allowed to make it spooky? If so, go all out!!! The kids and most adults will probably like your stand more than the apple tree displays


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## Pumpkin Torture Guy (Aug 8, 2008)

Squirrel headed Bas%&^ds. I'd like to give them something that's offensive! Give'um what you got with both barrells. It's for the kids ain't it?


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## jdubbya (Oct 4, 2003)

theworstwitch said:


> Are you allowed to make it spooky? If so, go all out!!! The kids and most adults will probably like your stand more than the apple tree displays





Pumpkin Torture Guy said:


> Squirrel headed Bas%&^ds. I'd like to give them something that's offensive! Give'um what you got with both barrells. It's for the kids ain't it?


I respectfully disagree. By taking part in this watered down, sanitized event, you only condone it and send the message that "it's okay." It's not, if you really want to make it a Halloween event. By not participating and being vocal about the reason, you send a clear message. Tell the organizers that when it reverts back to a Halloween celebration, you'l be there with bells on, but you won't take part in this type of "alternative" activity." JMO


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## halloween4ever (Jul 1, 2009)

I would probably agree with not participating, BUT......The reality is that we Halloween addicts are in the minority and most people wouldn't understand why you got so upset this wasn't a Halloween event. So, protesting this event probably wouldn't do any good. Just bow out of it and channel your Halloween energy towards a different event.


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## UnOrthodOx (Apr 24, 2007)

Blowing it off is not an option, since my-mother-in-law teaches there. 

She also gets to keep all the money we make, just for her class. I, personally, think this is a part of the problem, others being jealous how much we made last year. And, the whole "if you can't beat em, cry foul" mentality.


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## halloween4ever (Jul 1, 2009)

Since there's a mother in law involved...you better do it then. Have your Halloween booth, the kids would like it more anyways.

How does your mother in law feel about this?


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## Baron Samedi (Jan 15, 2009)

In a way, it's nice to know that it's not just on this side of the Atlantic that Political Correctness has gone totally, stark raving mad.

I'm not aware of any UK organisations making rules to outlaw Halloween, after all it's still not that big a deal here and is largely ignored. however I know of a local authority that changed Christmas to "Winterval" so that non-Christians could celebrate too and not be offended.

I completely agree with jdubbya. I would pull out. If your display makes more money for the organisation than 2 other stalls combined then someone somewhere is going to miss that revenue and questions will be asked. of course, I would offer a full explanation in writing as to why you felt the need to withdraw.

I realise that this is possibly not a course of action that you may wish to take. you obviously enjoy displaying your set-up and it does raise money for a good cause. however, certain of us must start to stand up to these dictatorial do gooders who think they can deny decent, law abiding, tax paying people the right to celebrate for fear that their enjoyment may offend a few ignoramuses.

To paraphrase Jdubbya, by particpating in this fiasco, you condone it.

By boycotting it, you send a message in the name of freedom and common sense.


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## halinar (Oct 10, 2005)

Wow, sept 14 is still blazing hot summer here in Florida.


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## Baron Samedi (Jan 15, 2009)

UnOrthodOx said:


> Blowing it off is not an option, since my-mother-in-law teaches there.
> 
> She also gets to keep all the money we make, just for her class. I, personally, think this is a part of the problem, others being jealous how much we made last year. And, the whole "if you can't beat em, cry foul" mentality.


My apologies. i was interrupted whilst composing my previous post and didn't realise family members were involved.


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## Frankie's Girl (Aug 27, 2007)

That really, really sucks.

Here in Houston, most area schools bowed down to the religious fanatics decades ago, and since the 1980s, no child is allowed to wear Halloween costumes, no decorations that are Halloween related (fall leaves, fine, JoLs or black cats, etc are out) and no teacher is allowed to do any Halloween activities or discuss Halloween at all. 

My mother is a retired elementary school teacher, and I worked in her classroom during college as a teacher's helper for years. Saying that, I really don't know if I'd be able to participate in a "Fall Festival" without at least making sure that folks knew that I wasn't in agreement that Halloween should be removed from the schools. (maybe advertise your house haunt with some signage?


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## battygirl (Sep 30, 2008)

This is ridiculous. Parents should be pushing Halloween! It promotes creativity and imagination. I don't know how many memories we all have from childhood Halloweens. Actually I think that that's why most of us are in love with Halloween....it brings back all the joy from Halloween when we where kids. I've heard some crazy Christians say that they don't want their children growing up in fantasy land they want them to live in reality. I say it's ******** you have maybe10-12 yrs of truly being a child and then there is enough time for reality when you grow up. Also I don't understand why radicals tell their kids about Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny or the tooth fairy then because those are also fantasy like characters for holidays.

I know I'm prolly not making any sense hear but I just am fed up. I am a christian and don't go to church because of a lot of reasons but mostly they try and dominate everyone around them. Bully their thinking and are hypocritical. Anyway my point is some people have fun sucking the fun out of others lives!! I am split half of me says pull out the other give'em hell!!!


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## Spyderella (Oct 9, 2008)

Fall Festivals...Trunk or Treats....Malloweens....I HATE THEM ALL!!!!!


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## BevAnn (Aug 7, 2007)

Spyderella - we are neighbors!! I'm just down south of ya, in the River Valley!!

I agree - it totally sucks, but we too haven't seen any true holidays in the schools here for YEARS. 

Fall Festival, WINTER break, etc...it so pisses me off!!!!! 

BUT, since it's for mom-in-law and her class gets the money from your booth, then YES go all the hell out!!! Show 'em all!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Madame Leota (Sep 19, 2005)

When my kids were little, almost 20 years ago (eek!), our church had a huge halloween party starting with loading all the kids on a bus and taking them ToT'ing and ending up back at the building for games and refreshments. We decorated to the hilt with REAL halloween decor. It was awesome. Then, little by little, the pc police took over. We fought it for years before accepting our fate. They now alternate between a "Harvest Festival" which actually to me sounds much more ominous than halloween (think Children of the Corn), and this ridiculous thing called trunk or treat and BTW, what the hell is that all about anyway? I don't get it.
Anyway, for several years they kept asking me to help organize this mess. I kept repeating, "I don't believe in fall festivals. I believe in Halloween. If I do it, it WILL be halloween." They finally stopped asking. It's a sad state of affairs...


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## UnOrthodOx (Apr 24, 2007)

Madame Leota said:


> and this ridiculous thing called trunk or treat and BTW, what the hell is that all about anyway? I don't get it.
> ..


Because teaching your kids to go take candy from a strangers car is so much safer than trick or treat.


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## Spyderella (Oct 9, 2008)

Hi Bevann! Is Halloween as dismal in the river valley as it is up here in NWA? I think the most TOT's I got in one year was something like 20. A few years back, Bentonville had a Halloween Party on the square and I thought it turned out well...Then someone complained and that was the end of that. This anti-Halloween sentiment in the bible belt is one of the reasons I so dearly wish I still lived in California. At least in the bigger cities, there's more acceptance and tolerance for weirdness.


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## the dogman (Jul 8, 2007)

The "fall festival" is a way of pleasing scared parents who are too uninvolved and thick headed to keep their kids away from gory and streetwalker costumes and keep panicky school officials from having a nervous breakdown.

Parents don't want their kids exposed to or participating in an event that may have fake blood or stupid little girls dressed as hookers, so they fight it and change it for their kids protection, instead of picking a costume with their kid and making sure it's to their maturity level. 

Schools have the ability to make and enforce rules that say no blood, no skimpy outfits, no masks no weapons, but they are too scared of an impending lawsuit from some knucklehead that thinks its ok to send lil johnny to school covered in blood with a real machete, and lil sue wearing 3 inch heels, a mini skirt and a tube top.

So they call Halloween the problem, fight to get it eradicated, and usually win because there isn't enough people fighting for the parents to pull their heads out of their a**es and take care of their own kids.

Schools have fall festivals, Halloween is demoted to "trunk or treat" or "mall-o-weens" because parents think they are safer or better for the kids. Your kids are just as safe with you trailing behind them at a "trunk or treat" or "mall-o-ween" as they are with you walking behind them while they go house to house in your neighborhood... oh wait that's right, you don't have the time for that, even though you have the time to take them to parking lots full of people and the mall.

"Mall-o-weens" aren't so bad, at least in my area, because they start usually before regular trick or treating and it's mostly very little kids that are in bed during regular ToT hours.

Unorthodox has a point about trunk or treat, it is teaching little kids that taking candy from some strangers car is ok, and I'm pretty sure we have been teaching kids not to do that for a long long time.

Boycotting the festival wont do much else than make you look like you are against the community. 
It would be better to try and get some nation wide public outcry against destroying holidays just because stupid parents are fearful for no reason.

Send stories of this to CNN or some big news outlet. With enough people saying "I don't like this" they may do a story about it and maybe some change will happen.


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## the dogman (Jul 8, 2007)

Just did a google search. To see more about where this "fall festival" movement is coming from, go to google and look up "Halloween replaced by fall festivals"


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## colmmoo (Jul 23, 2005)

Yes, you shouldn't give them the satisfaction of helping them put together any booths for their stupid fall festival. They want a boring fall festival, leave it to them to do the decorating with silly orange and yellow leaves and sh*t.


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## Howlatthemoon (Jun 25, 2008)

I remember in school having Halloween parties, the teacher telling "spooky" stories, singing"spooky "tunes etc. It was FUN!! Nothing bad ever came of it.


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## Spats (Sep 21, 2006)

I'm sorry, I agree. If you want to support Mother-in-law than do something supportive, something specific for a "Fall festival" (one- fall starts Sep 21 or 22, depending on the year, and Two, we have a fall festival, we call it Thanksgiving).

And I empathize with your plight. Halloween is when we mock the things that frighten us, when we face our fears. When we hide our faces and still receive trust. It's when neighborhoods open their doors with sweets for complete strangers. It is vitally important and we (most americans, not just us) love it for a reason.

It has an essential element, Halloween, and that is why I wouldn't let this get me down.
Let me explain my view.

The holiday was originally religious, like Christmas. It's has pagan roots, like christmas, and it's an amalgamation of many folk beliefs... like christmas.
It was officially recognized by the early medieval church (christmas) and it has thrived and changed and settled into the comfortable tropes of today's modern celebration (christmas).

Like Christmas, it has been targeted in the public forum by some who find it unnacceptable, or uncomfortable. Some have even stated that they attack it's practice as revenge for perceived slights against Christmas.

Like Christmas, though it may have spiritual meaning for some folks, it has flourished as a secular celebration. As schools condemn it and trick-or-treat struggles into the 21 century, it still commands more financial respect than any festival, save... Christmas.
It is loved more and more each year. Older folk participate. Kids not only go out for candy, they get parties (as in, more than one), numerous haunted attractions, seasonal movies and television episodes with a holiday creepiness the week of the 31st. Stores dedicated to the holiday are expanding. Yard haunters have made an impact on seasonal sales, and the vendors know it so much, they dedicate tv shows to the subject.

I once ran a large outdoor haunt for a city. I designed it, hired (and fired) staff, ordered materials and did local radio spots for the haunt. We made serious bank for the town during the off-season, and the city council loved us.
It was never to happen again, because two large donors considered the attraction evil.

What did that do to Halloween around here? Well, there are more haunted attractions in my area than ever before. Despite being the bible belt, we have halloween stores, a downtown halloween parade, trick-or-treat in nicer neighborhoods, costumed parties, hayrides and special events across town.

Halloween won't stop because a few can control a tiny pond with temper tantrums. It's reaching the point now that even some evangelical christians are accepting the holiday as a chance to get to know the neighbors and not show fear of the devil on a particular date. 
Have you noticed that there are fewer mall treaters?
Have you noticed most folks don't bother with x-rayed candy?
Have you noticed that the "satanic panic" is being considered goofball instead of some gruesome threat like it was a decade ago?

Let the babies have their bottle. They won't stop Halloween. Help Mother-in-law out and let the kids know "My house, Halloween night, bring the parents, candy for everybody!"


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## Laredo (Jun 18, 2009)

Sounds like the school is terrified of invoking the curse of Curtis Danko!


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## colmmoo (Jul 23, 2005)

I'm just afraid that trick or treating will be a thing of the past. Each year I get less and less TOTers. It's really sad.


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## UnOrthodOx (Apr 24, 2007)

the dogman said:


> Just did a google search. To see more about where this "fall festival" movement is coming from, go to google and look up "Halloween replaced by fall festivals"


"Create a carnival like atmosphere." Yep, that's all I'm gonna do. 

It's called the sideshow.


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## BevAnn (Aug 7, 2007)

Spyderella - it's not too bad down here. I have 14 and 11 yr old and we still TOT and usually bring home a big haul, though last year was the worst year so far.

I can remember going to CAtholic school all my elementary years, and we had ONE kid that was...whatever he was and couldn't participate, and he had to SIT IN THE HALL during our parties! Now, that actually did make me feel bad for him.  teachers would always sneak him out a punch drink and cookie. 

Here's what really gets my goat (ya'll got me going now!!) these people that don't believe in the holidays - BUT GET A PAID DAY OFF LIKE THE REST OF US FOR THE HOLIDAYS!! By God if you don't believe in Christmas, then WORK and don't take off!!

alright...off my soap box now.


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## Mandathewitch (May 19, 2009)

Personally if they are going "fall Festival" show them what YOUR Idea of a Fall Fesival is, and go Children of the Corn on them. You can still make your attraction interesting, and maintain the "theme" provided by the assailants to the good name of Halloween! It will easilly be the most visited part of the festival, and will once again draw the most money. Teach those that cry foul that you will still beat them no matter what they try to do!!!


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## TK421 (Mar 27, 2009)

digbugsgirl said:


> That sucks! I'm so tired of this "offending people" crap. How long has Halloween been around???? So many holidays are being sensored because 1 -2% of the poplulation is offended. Bah humbug to you, I say!! (not you, UnOrthodOx)


*Yes, Yes, Yes!!! 

I couldn't agree more. I'm sick and tired of offending people. *


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## wilbret (Oct 8, 2004)

Well, at least we still have Christmas.
I mean, uh, Happy Holidays...


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## TK421 (Mar 27, 2009)

I need to confirm it when school starts, but my oldest daughter will be going into the 8th grade in September, and the middle school she'll be attending should have a "fall dance" that is usually held towards the end of October. When I asked last spring, they said it was pretty much a Halloween Party/Dance for the middle schoolers.

I hope that's still the case.


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## TK421 (Mar 27, 2009)

wilbret said:


> Well, at least we still have Christmas.
> I mean, uh, Happy Holidays...


Argh!! That frustrates me, too!!

For the past couple of years, my daughter has been involved with band and choir. They always have a concert right before "winter" break. They have no problem singing songs about Chanukah, and even a song for Kwanzaa, but not a single Christmas song. 

I'm all for mulit-cultural teaching, but I kinda miss the communit of my youth where we had a Halloween parade at school, two weeks off for Christmas Break, and we could sing carols and Christmas songs at school.


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## Scatterbrains (Nov 16, 2008)

Unorthodox...are they saying no costumes for the kids either?

I don't know about last year, since my youngest moved on to JR high, but our elementary school always had a Fall Festival the Friday before Halloween and they even had a haunted house in it and all the kids came in costume. It would be a shame to get rid of it as for a lot of kids, that's the only time to show off their costumes.

I think you should proceed with your plans. Helping your Mom-in-Law is a good cause and the kids shouldn't be jipped out of a good time because of a few anal retentive folks. 

And I hope you rake in all the dough. It seems as though if you can't keep up with the Jones', someone will legislate it so the Jones have to go down to you.


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## MrNightmare (Mar 2, 2009)

As long as we're around... Halloween will be too! Just look at how much money people spend every year at Halloween! If anything, this holiday gets more and more popular every year.


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## Gothikren (Aug 17, 2008)

I think you should do your booth the way you want to do it and make as much money as you can for your mother in law. If they don't like it what will they do ask you not to do it again next year? Request that you remove a couple of props? I doubt they will do that extreme honestly. Go for it and enjoy yourself and maybe show those who are doubtful about how "EVIL" Halloween is tha it's not an Evil holiday at all just fun for the kid in all of us.

On a side note: I live in the bible belt, but they still have Halloween events at our schools here. They may call it fall festival, but they allow the children to dress in costumes, and still have a parade through the schools and parties. Our problem here isn't just the fact that they are trying to sensor out the holidays they are trying to suck the childhood out of school. They have begun to cut down the amount of parties they are allowed to have at school, and they have set a certain amount of time during the day to have the party if they do have it. It's crazy I tell you. Our highschoolers are still allowed to wear costumes as well (they usually charge them a dollar to help raise funds for school. :note they have hat days like this too) and it makes it fun for the kids. They just aren't allowed to wear any inappropriate costumes (sluty etc) to school). Our highschool is planning a 'fall festival for next year which I'm helping plan, and we are all on the same page about making it halloween oriented." We'd do it this year, but logistically what we want to do is going to be too much (we're planning on making it a community event not just school event). The local college here; Austin Peay State University, does a great night called GHOST (Greater Halloween Options for Safer Trick or treating). The sororities and frats all set up tables, and dress up in costumes. They play halloween music, have different events, and give out candy and books. LOADS of kids come to this every year, and it's usually before halloween so kids really get to trick or treat twice. I ALWAYS take my kids, and it's fabulous plus it puts them in the mood for Halloween even more.


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## UnOrthodOx (Apr 24, 2007)

> Unorthodox...are they saying no costumes for the kids either?
> 
> I don't know about last year, since my youngest moved on to JR high, but our elementary school always had a Fall Festival the Friday before Halloween and they even had a haunted house in it and all the kids came in costume. It would be a shame to get rid of it as for a lot of kids, that's the only time to show off their costumes.
> 
> ...


I don't know if they are going to do a costume party at that school or not this year, especially with Halloween falling on Saturday. Certainly no costumes at this event. Besides me, that is. It will be even MORE fun to go wander around the mall afterwords this year...



It's back to school night for my kids this evening...I know the PTA (president lives down the street) is trying to get the school to do a Halloween Carnival at our school this year, in place of the selling happenings books fundraiser they've done in the past. We'll see if that goes over.


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## Madame Leota (Sep 19, 2005)

Laredo said:


> Sounds like the school is terrified of invoking the curse of Curtis Danko!


LOL! I love that movie!
Much more allegorical than most people realize!


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## Spookilicious mama (Feb 27, 2008)

Tinaspaintedlady said:


> What parent gets offended by kids in costumes getting candy? Honestly think back when you were young and able to celebrate Halloween at school. It was the early seventies for me and we paraded down the hallways in our costumes and got candy, that was it. I have just about had it with the thin skin of many folks. Really it is getting old.


*First of all Fabulous Avie Second of all I totally agree with you darling. a few years back I was in charge of the art projects for each lesson in my kindergarten class. So during october we were doing nocturnal animals, to tie in the holiday my project i came up with were these fabulous black bats that were made out of contructions paper, and paper plates and paint. anyway to make it fun for the kids i gave them a few options on face ideas, your bat had the pastic rolly eyes and you had your choice to make with purple glitter nice or evil eye brows and the bat had white fangs and with red glitter had blood dripping down. LOL the kids loved it. well the assistant principal at the time did not celebrate halloween so we always did every year and the year she came on board she sent out a global email saying we would no longer be celebrating halloween, well the same week I had them make my famous 4 foot tall Frankenstien, Now he was something and they always came out great. So here I am in the hallway all the Frankies hung up in a row with silver bolts in the neck and scarred head made out of red glitter and all and I am hanging up my bats. Here comes Ms, Anti halloween AP. Ummm Mrs. B what are you doing. Hanging up bats I say, she comes back with ummmm Mrs. B you arenet cele brating halloween are you. Oh no nocturnal animals oh and of course fall mam She knew I was lying and I gave her that look like go ahead and say it and challenge me on this one I will slam you with these kids rights to celebrate this holiday so fast your freakin head will spin. You knew you werent supposed to send that email you had no right and I dare you right now to challenge me!!! You know the look Im talking about. Of course on my door was skeleton hanging which I got away with my putting up labels naming all the bones. For science of course not halloween Our kids had a blast. Now Im in guidance and the school still does a fall festival but with a halloween parade. When they come to my office and hallway we have it all done up. Ive got my life size gemmy figures, lighting effects, scary music, black lights, all sorts of stuff and the kids love every bit of it. They dont even try to stop me because they know its not going to work This year I am bringing my 6 foot boy and girl mummy*


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## Howlatthemoon (Jun 25, 2008)

Spookilicious mama said:


> *First of all Fabulous Avie Second of all I totally agree with you darling. a few years back I was in charge of the art projects for each lesson in my kindergarten class. So during october we were doing nocturnal animals, to tie in the holiday my project i came up with were these fabulous black bats that were made out of contructions paper, and paper plates and paint. anyway to make it fun for the kids i gave them a few options on face ideas, your bat had the pastic rolly eyes and you had your choice to make with purple glitter nice or evil eye brows and the bat had white fangs and with red glitter had blood dripping down. LOL the kids loved it. well the assistant principal at the time did not celebrate halloween so we always did every year and the year she came on board she sent out a global email saying we would no longer be celebrating halloween, well the same week I had them make my famous 4 foot tall Frankenstien, Now he was something and they always came out great. So here I am in the hallway all the Frankies hung up in a row with silver bolts in the neck and scarred head made out of red glitter and all and I am hanging up my bats. Here comes Ms, Anti halloween AP. Ummm Mrs. B what are you doing. Hanging up bats I say, she comes back with ummmm Mrs. B you arenet cele brating halloween are you. Oh no nocturnal animals oh and of course fall mam She knew I was lying and I gave her that look like go ahead and say it and challenge me on this one I will slam you with these kids rights to celebrate this holiday so fast your freakin head will spin. You knew you werent supposed to send that email you had no right and I dare you right now to challenge me!!! You know the look Im talking about. Of course on my door was skeleton hanging which I got away with my putting up labels naming all the bones. For science of course not halloween Our kids had a blast. Now Im in guidance and the school still does a fall festival but with a halloween parade. When they come to my office and hallway we have it all done up. Ive got my life size gemmy figures, lighting effects, scary music, black lights, all sorts of stuff and the kids love every bit of it. They dont even try to stop me because they know its not going to work This year I am bringing my 6 foot boy and girl mummy*


 You go Spookilicious Mama!


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## Pumpkin Torture Guy (Aug 8, 2008)

BevAnn.... Get back on your soap box. The problem is that the dam politicians are afraid that they may lose a vote and so they try to pacify all the non believers and take away all the things that have been a standard in our society for a hundred plus years. The real satanic holiday is election day. Thats when all the evil creatures really start to roam. I'm done.


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## ChangedReality (Aug 17, 2009)

I have to admit, growing up my parents are definitely the "Halloween is EVIL" kinda people...and look how I turned out! Halloween is my favorite time of year hands down and I definitely fight for everyone to have the right to do Halloween properly.

...that being said, unorthodox, they really did place you in a bind there; however, I'm glad that you're going to be doing something for it. Keep the spirit alive, maybe make some noise about how much better it'd have been if it was a Halloween thing (pointing out downward money trends always help) and maybe they'll switch it back next year.


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## Tinaspaintedlady (Aug 7, 2008)

Spookalicious-fabulous story of what you are doing in your school. No doubt the kids will always remember it too. Speaking of bats, we share our home with over 100 of them that roost in my eaves. At dusk we sit out in our yard and watch them take flight, we just love it. 

Unorthodox, good luck in whatever you end up doing. Kids will love it no matter what they call it or what time of the year.


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## BevAnn (Aug 7, 2007)

Pumpkin Torture Guy said:


> BevAnn.... Get back on your soap box. The problem is that the dam politicians are afraid that they may lose a vote and so they try to pacify all the non believers and take away all the things that have been a standard in our society for a hundred plus years. The real satanic holiday is election day. Thats when all the evil creatures really start to roam. I'm done.


Thanks PTG!! You made me LOL with the election day comment! 

I'm a Harley riding, beer drinking, 38..oh 39 as of yesterday! year old chic, that speaks her mind - many people find that verrryy SCARY. LOL I'm about as politically incorrect as they get! 

I offended a good friends new girlfriend (she's like 1/32 cherokee) when I made an Obama joke last November. She has refused to ever be around any of us in our group again, as we are "minority haters". WTF ever. I told her - then don't come around. Simple as that. She came to my Halloween party last year, dressed as a red neck wife - fake pregnant, with a black eye, in her gown with a beer and cigarette in hand. It was really funny - but after her jumping my butt about the Obama joke, I felt like telling her I was 1/32 ******* and she had offended my people on Halloween!! LOL


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## Deadna (Oct 19, 2002)

Pumpkin Torture Guy said:


> BevAnn.... Get back on your soap box. The problem is that the dam politicians are afraid that they may lose a vote and so they try to pacify all the non believers and take away all the things that have been a standard in our society for a hundred plus years. The real satanic holiday is election day. Thats when all the evil creatures really start to roam. I'm done.


Hilarious! If I recall you live north of a town who recently passed the no smoking law for ALL businesses so now bar patrons sit outside to smoke. The other day someone complained that his 7 year old should not have to look at people drinking alcohol in public....it won't be long before that's a law as well


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## Pumpkin Torture Guy (Aug 8, 2008)

Yeah, Bloomington ( home of IU ) and Greencastle ( home of DePauw University ) both went with the no smoking inside any public building. They're both college towns. Students like to drink and smoke. Politicians...the real EVIL.


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## Nevarstar (Oct 23, 2006)

I think if it were me and the school switched to a fall festival, I would try to set something up outside the school to earn money for the class that was Halloween related. You might even be able to arrange some kind of other things besides the haunt, like a bake sale or popcorn stand. 

When I was a about 12 my mom helped with a fun raiser and she and I went to a corn dog manufacturer. He lent us the equipment and sold us the corn dogs at cost. He even taught me and my mom to use the equipment (of course with labor laws now, you would probably have to be over 18) This was not at Halloween, but I remember having alot of fun helping raise the money.

Of course since they will let you have some of your stuff you could go all out and still raise as much money as possible.

You might also have a petition set up to have people voice their anger at not having a Halloween Festival. Then you will be able to see if you are in the majority in your area and maybe over ride the annoying minority that always seems to get their way.


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## savagehaunter (Aug 22, 2009)

This "offending someone" crap is ruining all the haunting fun


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## savagehaunter (Aug 22, 2009)

kids today need the fun of a real Halloween carneval. I remember the ones when I was a kid were a real kick in the pants


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## Muffy (Sep 25, 2006)

Halloween Haunters......I really enjoyed this thread! It should be a stickie!lol

Lots of good opinons here my friends. When I read all this I feel so lucky to be where I am. No one around here causes me any problems except the witnesses & since Joe sent the dog after them last year it was not a pretty sight. They walked up the long sidewalk toward our porch where he was sittin' & he told them>>>>"Stop there....turn around & go back & get in your car!".

Well they kept walking toward the porch & he let the damn dog go & the dog bites. They ran all the back to the car. So we'll see if they come this year. I know I aggravate the crap out of them cause each year we put up more stuff. If they come this year I'm gonna find out in a nice way where they live & I am gonna go to their house everyday, dressed in my costume & carrying my broom & witches book & try to covert them to halloween haunters>>>>>think it might work?

Folks around here love what we do & each year we have had more kids come. We had over 300 last year & I was thrilled! I hope it stays like this. I have not heard much up here where I live (middle of North Carolina) & this is familes in their 30's-40's. I have no kids so I don't hear to much of what goes on at the schools here

I do know when I moved in my new NC hubby was like......maybe you should just put a few things up this 1st year & we'll see what they do around here. I said "B.S.", they might as well get use to me right from the start, especially cause I'm much worse for xmas, altho I might add that this year (2009) I really think we may have surpassed the xmas boxes, especially with these big huge pillars from the cemetery.

ANYWAYS....if I had to get out & protest to celebrate halloween the way I want to...I would do it even if the cops drug me off to jail! Those jail outfits make cute costumes!

Bravo People on this thread......I'm glad & proud to be in this company!


the Muffster


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## Haunty McSpooks (Jan 20, 2009)

These kinds of threads always end up being the most interesting things on the Forum!

In a weird way, if the "fall festival" push were the result of Hallween's spititual roots being more widely accepted (Wicca/paganism as legitimate religion, and then subject to the separation of church and state, etc.) then I might actually see that as a form of progress... But this case just sounds like an example of how right-wing/fundamentalist intolerance is becoming "normal" in the US.
While I live in a semi-conservative community, I'm still organizing a haunt-crawl charity event with a progressive church here. I'm glad that Halloween isn't controversial with these folks!

Good luck, UnOrthoDox. I guess I agree with the "participate in the Fall Festival and go Children of the Corn on them" line on this one!


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## Not-so-sunny-lane (Jan 31, 2009)

AMEN!!! Stand up to them. What does a Lab have to do with Fall? If you can't do it the way you want to why would you want to waste the injury and expense of doing it?

The schools in my area stopped doing Halloween Carnivals and started with the Fall Festival crap several years ago. Kids could still dress up in costume but they could only come as Story Book Characters. Absolutely no witches, monsters, vampires, etc. Decorations were limited to cutesy scarecrows, bales of hay, cornstalk crap and while there could be lots of pumpkins, they could not have a face or carving and heaven forbid you have a picture of a black cat, no matter how cute it is! What a load of crap.


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## Tumblindice (Aug 19, 2008)

Deadna said:


> Hilarious! If I recall you live north of a town who recently passed the no smoking law for ALL businesses so now bar patrons sit outside to smoke. The other day someone complained that his 7 year old should not have to look at people drinking alcohol in public....it won't be long before that's a law as well


Where do you live that they don't have "open container laws"? 
In NY you have to smoke outside but if you take the drink out with you... you can be arrested for an "open container".


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## Tumblindice (Aug 19, 2008)

Remember that Schools are run by politicians ie... School Boards. 
Politicians are the wonderful people who want to run our lives because they feel they can do a better job of it than we can.


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## Deadna (Oct 19, 2002)

Tumblindice said:


> Where do you live that they don't have "open container laws"?
> In NY you have to smoke outside but if you take the drink out with you... you can be arrested for an "open container".


I'm in Indiana and after the no smoking law went into effect they supplied those patio tables outside the bars for their customers which is how the kiddie happened to see the "horrible site of someone drinking". I'm not much of a drinker so am not positive on this but I think the only open container law we have is ...don't have one while driving.


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## Cadaverino (Dec 10, 2007)

eanderso13 said:


> What a load of BS! September isn't even fall, in my book! (and officially, Sept 14 isn't according to the calendar, either!)


Meteorological autumn (which the U.S. National Weather Service uses) begins on September 1.

Astronomical autumn begins on the Autumnal Equinox, which is on September 21 in 2009.


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## Tumblindice (Aug 19, 2008)

Deadna said:


> I'm in Indiana and after the no smoking law went into effect they supplied those patio tables outside the bars for their customers which is how the kiddie happened to see the "horrible site of someone drinking". I'm not much of a drinker so am not positive on this but I think the only open container law we have is ...don't have one while driving.


 Too funny... here the second phase of the trans-fat ban went into effect and now you can't get those dips for the soft ice cream cones. You know the ones that harden up and create a shell.


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## kittyvibe (Oct 27, 2008)

Deadna said:


> I'm in Indiana and after the no smoking law went into effect they supplied those patio tables outside the bars for their customers which is how the kiddie happened to see the "horrible site of someone drinking". I'm not much of a drinker so am not positive on this but I think the only open container law we have is ...don't have one while driving.


Here in Fl, at least in the Tampa Bay area, its commonplace to see this. Ive never seen police enforce it but have seen some establishments stop people from walking outside for a smoke or be on their cell with some drink in hand. I would say that I see more places allow it than disallow it, I can only guess cops dont bother because the patrons are still on the establishments property. I HAVE seen in the news cops busting little old ladies around here for having open containers on the beach, with a stiff fine, for coffee! They do it for any drink thats not in a proper container  Im not sure how my girlfriend and I were never caught when we went to the beach. Almost every weekend we were out there with a milk gallon jug full of a fruity rum concoction and get toasted.


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## UnOrthodOx (Apr 24, 2007)

Ok, so more news from the Fall Festival front. 

The school has a new principle (brand new, young kid principle) who is choosing to not pick this particular battle to fight. I can understand that much from someone new on the job, honestly. Hence, he asked the teachers do a 'fall festival' instead of a "halloween carnival" this year, and left the arranging up to them. 

Well, the teachers get to keep all the money made in their own room, and apparantly some were a little perterbed that we so handily 'won' the $ count last year. So, the rest of the teachers brought on this 2 front assault on OUR PARTICULAR ROOM. 1st, removing it from October in the hopes my Mother-in-law would not want to DO the lab. 2nd, moving it to a Monday instead of the traditional Wednsday in the hopes we would not have time to, and I am told this is a quote, "Maybe not enough time to do anything quite as elaborate as that lab from last year". 

See, Wednsdays, the school lets out early, so I had 4 hours prep time last year. I'll only have 2 hours this year. 

Well, a year in the planning this time has let me build everything to be plug-and-play. And I'm not carting around a 10'x10' frame anymore, either. Time isn't a problem. 

As for the other, today was the first day of school and as my MIL teaches 5th grade, they all got their flyers today, and the class asked whether she would still be doing the lab. I am being told a cheer rose from the "No, it will be a much better one this year" response. 

It's on. I want our room to totally decimate everyone else and their cake walks and bean bag tosses...


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## Cadaverino (Dec 10, 2007)

I'm feeling sorry for the principal. They are often caught in no-win situations between parents and administrators.


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## BevAnn (Aug 7, 2007)

DEATH TO THE CAKE WALKS and BLOW UP JUMPING THINGIES!!!

Long live the lab!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Give 'em hell unorthodox! We're behind ya all the way!!!


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## uncle (Oct 3, 2007)

"DEATH TO THE CAKE WALKS and BLOW UP JUMPING THINGIES" isn't something I completely agree with.

BUT if we could combine cake walks, jumping thingies, and the blowing up part...


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## Withered Witch (Jul 31, 2006)

Go for it! And may your 5th grade kick everyone's ass. I'm not a real big fan of teachers and school politics infuriates me. Is the school there for the teachers or for the students?


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## Madame Leota (Sep 19, 2005)

Sounds like a throw down! Show 'em what you've got!


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## CaliforniaMelanie (Sep 8, 2008)

How the hell can they have a "fall" festival in mid-September? Mid-September is still technically the summer. (smacking head)


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## Cadaverino (Dec 10, 2007)

*Meteorological autumn* (which is what the U.S. National Weather Service uses) begins on September 1.

*Astronomical autumn* begins on the autumnal equinox, which is on September 22 in 2009.


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## the dogman (Jul 8, 2007)

Now that I have thought about it, there is a bit of an Anti-Halloween group in my community. They routinely try to divert kids on Halloween to a gymnasium like space to play games, get double hand-fulls of candy (one person could fill a pillow case in under an hour) all wrapped up in a "good morals" package. 

For a few years they held their set up less than a block from my house and openly protested our Halloween set up, something my mom has been doing for 20 some odd years, only to make our haunt even more popular.

Now kids will go to their set up early and get their fill of candy before wandering to the few decked out houses, usually making my house the last stop before home. 

As far as I know the schools still have a Halloween parade, parties and dances. Hopefully Halloween remains an active part of my community and won't get demoted to a "fall festival".

I wish you luck in you endeavor to blow away the competition with your set up Unorthodox!


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## Specterkev (Aug 17, 2003)

I hate uppity parents.. lame o's If anyone tries to protest ours..they will be ignored we will do it anyways. I love halloween and noone is gonna make me stop it

this makes me sad


YouTube - Light Partyâ„¢ - A Halloween Alternative

"we'll see you there"

No you won't!


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## SpookySarah (Jul 4, 2008)

I don't mind fall festivals, if they aren't replacing a Halloween party!

Luckily enough for me, my little town still allows trick or treating. In fact, my old Christian elementary school still has a Halloween party with a Haunted Hall. We also have a Terror Mansion that opens every October that also sells Halloween stuff.

Please remind me never to move to the Bible Belt. :O

I don't understand why people hate Halloween so much. Halloween doesn't need to be blood and gore for children or even teens. Standing up to fears, dressing up as something you're not, and knowing you're safe to take a piece of candy from your neighbors as you romp around the neighborhood. I don't see anything remotely scary or evil about this!

ETA: Light Party? WTF? All it is is some creepy clown puppet and cheesy rides. Yeah, what an amazing Halloween substitite. :/


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## UnOrthodOx (Apr 24, 2007)

SpookySarah said:


> I don't understand why people hate Halloween so much. Halloween doesn't need to be blood and gore for children or even teens. Standing up to fears, dressing up as something you're not, and knowing you're safe to take a pice of candy from your neighbors and you romp around the neighborhood. I don't see anything remotely scary or evil about this!


Ah, but even GOING to one of our haunts is a sure fire ticket to hell, you know.


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## SpookySarah (Jul 4, 2008)

That is sad. Truly. I am a Christian and I believe in God and Jesus, with all of my heart, but I also don't use the scare tactics and fear mongering many Christians seem to resort to these days.


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## WeirdRob (Aug 22, 2009)

Light Party is a total scam for sure. If you're not interested in Halloween just stay at home, put the "No Candy Here" sign on the door and watch some good wholesome family oriented programming on TV or play a board game.


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## CaliforniaMelanie (Sep 8, 2008)

Cadaverino said:


> *Meteorological autumn* (which is what the U.S. National Weather Service uses) begins on September 1.
> 
> *Astronomical autumn* begins on the autumnal equinox, which is on September 22 in 2009.


Oh, I see....well, that's cool, but still, frankly, who (except us on here, LOL) is really thinking "ohhhhhhhh, autumn is here" in mid-September? Even when I lived in the northeast, which gets pretty cold by Oct./Nov., it was still quite hot in September. I just...can't see it.

But, eh. I guess at least they're not doing away with the whole thing altogether...although by separating it from Halloween by a good 5-6 weeks, it's a very obvious pull-away from Halloween. Which I think is sad. As a kid I had SO much fun on Halloween. What a blast. It makes me sad to see fewer TOTers every year.

In our city, there's TOTing in town on Friday, then of course TOTing on Saturday, so personally, I'm in hog heaven this time around! I think we have a curfew (9:00, maybe?) but that's not news...we even had one when I was a kid, and that was in the 70s and 80s. I just hate to see this fun, magical, wonderful time get phased out.........Let our kids have fun!


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## CaliforniaMelanie (Sep 8, 2008)

Grim Jack said:


> Light Party is a total scam for sure. If you're not interested in Halloween just stay at home, put the "No Candy Here" sign on the door and watch some good wholesome family oriented programming on TV or play a board game.


Exactly so. I mean on the subject of religion (and I'll tread lightly here...I know this is a sensitive subject), when I lived in Pennsylvania, my boss was Jewish. On the day before Christmas Eve (we got both following days off), I asked him what he was going to do over his vacation, with all the stores closed and all the non-Jewish people having get-togethers and all that.

He said, "Eh, same thing as every year. Get Chinese food and then go to the movies."

He didn't give a hoot that "other people" were celebrating, he didn't care about the "noise" or the racket or the fact that people were celebrating someone that his own religion told him was not the messiah at all, which should technically to him have been a sacrilege...no? (I mean think about it. THAT must hurt. We close stores, schools, businesses for this.) He didn't gather a group to protest the fact that the holiday encourages drinking AND visiting others, which obviously raises the risk of car and other accidents...as emergency records every single late December can attest. He didn't post warnings on YouTube. He didn't petition the school to have Winter Carnival instead of the Christmas or Holiday Show and to have it in November instead of December.

He just shrugged it off: if others wanted to celebrate, cool; he'd just enjoy the day off.

[Also...I wanted to add that it's not just the religious, necessarily, who are "against" Halloween. I know some non-religious people who, rather than religion, focus on the "but people will kidnap your child while he's out TOTing" or "what if some wack-o puts poison in the candy?" fears. Which again, I suppose are legitimate; we can all feel the way we feel. But again. So don't celebrate. No big shmeel...right? Anyway, just wanted to put that in in case anyone is worried about/angry at the Christian community for this; it isn't just them. There are killjoys in every belief system, LOL.]

Why shouldn't non-Halloween-celebrators take things the same way? Big deal. You don't want kids at your house, put up a sign. Most kids really don't care or mind. They go on to the next house. It's really no big deal. It's not something to cancel the whole holiday over.


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## mementomori (Aug 19, 2009)

i'm more scared of the people in that video! and the clown puppet scares me too. I do my set up every year, i give out candy every year. For me it's about my creativity and skills in putting it on as well as making memories for the kids. 
When i was a child i had good memories about getting dressed up, running around the neighborhood after dark, being scared and getting tons of candy. I want to perpetuate my positive memories of Halloween for myself and pass them on to the next generation.


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## CaliforniaMelanie (Sep 8, 2008)

Oh, and sorry to serial-post here, but...I wanted to point out something that the Light Party vid was claiming.

Halloween doesn't "celebrate darkness" the way she is intimating. The way she states it, it is as if we are celebrating and being happy about real-live, bad things happening. Obviously, we are not...and that's a silly way to trivialize things. 

Or perhaps it just shows a lack of understanding. Let me explain.

I believe the "dark" aspects of Halloween are thrilling to us because we _aren't_ allowed to be "dark" the rest of the year. We aren't allowed to speak of "certain things" (we all know someone who calls cancer the "C word," right?). When someone dies, we can't say, "He died." We have to couch it in correct terms. "She passed away." "She is in a better place now."

We aren't allowed to discuss "unsavory" things at the dinner table, in public, with the opposite sex/in mixed company, on the job, after the job at Happy Hour.

Life DOES involve dark and scary things but we are not allowed to address this...at all...in our daily lives. We are, instead, told that unless we live in a state of denial, we're "bad" people.

I wonder. Do these people protesting Halloween like roller coasters? What's the actual, psychological thrill behind a roller coaster? To approach what feels like danger but get past it. To touch the dark side of life we're not allowed to talk about: danger.

Do these non-Halloween people like dramas? Lifetime Viewing for Women? Documentaries on illness? On domestic abuse? Do they watch that "Gangs" show on Discovery or that lockup one (can't remember what it's called) or COPS? How about Law & Order? Do they like Westerns where the bad guy is shooting everybody and then the good guy has to shoot the bad guy? Ice Road Truckers, where the people are risking gory death off the side of the "Beaver Slide" every five seconds? Movies about something tragic happening? Crying to a sad song and saying "That was a good cry"? If yes to_ any _of these, _ever_...then they're hypocrites. They want and need to address their deepest fears too...they're just doing it in what (they think) is a more socially accepted way.

But _it's the same thing._

On Halloween, we thrill to see Jason so near to us...but not quite getting us. We jump with an adrenaline rush when a vampire leaps at us from the neighbor's bushes...as we narrowly make our escape. We come out of it alive, whole and in one piece...and realizing we've had a big thrill.

That doesn't mean we "love darkness". It means we want to see it, want to know it, want to bring it right out there because it's real, it's a fact of life...but this is in a safe, fun, adrenaline-rush way that addresses our--ALL of our, even the non-Halloween-ites--inner obsession with the parts of life that _we're not allowed to talk about._

Take that away from kids and what do you have? Well, look at any other repressed society and you tell me..................

Okay, I've said my piece.


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## Cadaverino (Dec 10, 2007)

CaliforniaMelanie said:


> I know some non-religious people who, rather than religion, focus on the "but people will kidnap your child while he's out TOTing" or "what if some wack-o puts poison in the candy?" fears. Which again, I suppose are legitimate


There never has been a genuine case of Halloween candy poisoning. More here.


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## CaliforniaMelanie (Sep 8, 2008)

Cadaverino said:


> There never has been a genuine case of Halloween candy poisoning. More here.


What I'm saying is that these are legitimate fears in that yes, absolutely, that sort of thing could happen at some point in the future. People are weird. 

I did know about the poisonings only being rumor...I have the Discovery Channel.  (Wait, maybe it was TLC!)

But it's legitimate to fear that someone might do something horrible to one's child. The extent to which that fear is taken may not have much legitimacy, but...if a person is that afraid, then he or she will only feel tortured every Halloween when his or her child is on the street (or any day of the year, for that matter)...so he or she can make that decision for his or her family. Sadly for the kids, but what I'm saying is, nobody can tell another parent not to do what he or she feels is in the child's best interest unless the child is being harmed.

However, _one's own fears_ can't dictate what the rest of the world does. I'm scared sh*tless every December 25th that some drunk who had a bit too much eggnog is going to mow me and my family down on the road while we're trying to get to that "big get-together" at my brother-in-law's. Does that mean we should all cancel Christmas? KWIM?


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## Madame Leota (Sep 19, 2005)

CaliforniaMelanie said:


> Exactly so. I mean on the subject of religion (and I'll tread lightly here...I know this is a sensitive subject), when I lived in Pennsylvania, my boss was Jewish. On the day before Christmas Eve (we got both following days off), I asked him what he was going to do over his vacation, with all the stores closed and all the non-Jewish people having get-togethers and all that.
> 
> He said, "Eh, same thing as every year. Get Chinese food and then go to the movies."
> 
> ...


Melanie, I'll give you the flip sid of your boss:
A couple of years ago, when our high school and jr high bands were preparing for their annual Christmas concert, a certain parent started making a lot of noise in protest. His son was in the band and his family belonged to a certain denomination famous for their door knocking. Apparently they also don't celebrate Christmas. He claimed that if the band played Christmas music, it would be a violation of his son's freedom of religion. Which, of course, is a huge load of crap but the school bowed down to him and the concert became a "winter concert" with no christmas music allowed.


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## CaliforniaMelanie (Sep 8, 2008)

Madame Leota said:


> Melanie, I'll give you the flip sid of your boss:
> A couple of years ago, when our high school and jr high bands were preparing for their annual Christmas concert, a certain parent started making a lot of noise in protest. His son was in the band and his family belonged to a certain denomination famous for their door knocking. Apparently they also don't celebrate Christmas. He claimed that if the band played Christmas music, it would be a violation of his son's freedom of religion. Which, of course, is a huge load of crap but the school bowed down to him and the concert became a "winter concert" with no christmas music allowed.


AGREED. Anyone can see how stupid this is (except the protestor, obviously). Take the fun away for people who do celebrate??? Please...I'm not Christian but even I can get something out of the winter holidays. They're just...fun. If I don't agree with the more religious aspects, so what? I don't rule the world. Others can and should celebrate. If I decide I totally hate it (or if I simply don't celebrate...I do know what denomination you're talking about...I had neighbors of this faith @ one time and mistakenly invited them to a Halloween party but they were VERY nice about saying no)...then I should be the one to stay home.

And if I don't want my son playing "Joy to the World" on his clarinet then I can keep him home from the concert with a note to the band director (and with my child probably cringing from embarrassment and horror that his parents are "those parents"). But that would be my right...

So I 100% see where you're coming from with this one.

ETA: And of course, that's what these Light Party people are doing: simply not celebrating the way other people are celebrating. BUT they're doing it vocally with some stupid viral video about all the "negative" and "dark" aspects of that terrible, terrible holiday (ohhhhhhhhhh noes) I DO object to. What if I post videos about having Halloween as a freedom-based, joyous occasion that substitutes for that grim, macabre celebration of death, All Soul's Day? Or what if I start a campaign to have the winter holidays go up until the end of Hannukah, and not starting on Dec. 25, as that is a blatant worship of someone else's messiah? So this is what I'm saying.

Do what you wanna do but don't drag others' fun, beliefs and all else through the mud in order to do it...or try to use scare tactics to make people celebrate YOUR way. "Kwanza is dangerous because X-Y-Z, and Ramadan leads to death via electrolyte imbalance due to fasting, and Hannukah is a fire hazard from the menorah, and Thanksgiving encourages our national obesity problem, leading to Type II diabetes by glorifying an unhealthy lifestyle...don't be a bad parent and let this happen to YOUR child!!" I mean seriously, can you imagine??? Eventually, we'd have nothing left. The world is getting less fun, not more so, the more afraid we become. Bad things can happen on ANY holiday...and any day that isn't a holiday at all.


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