# changing portrait



## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

Ive beem to the haunted mansion. THose ones are probably changed by a project. You would pay at least 5-6 hundred bucks for one. Rememember that that is owned by the multi billion doller industry known as disney.

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## bourno (Apr 7, 2004)

Sorry, don't know how it is done. There is another thread http://www.halloweenforum.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2290 that was started by a seller for advertising their portraits. In the discussion, someone thought their price was around $110 from the person that started the thread, but didn't mention any pricing.

Not sure if they use the same fresnel method as the trading cards that either have motion or different scene as you angle the card.


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## Big Greg (Mar 26, 2004)

Syrus - Check out Lenticular Lens on Google, if you want to make your own. Also, check out Sundial Designs, run by Aurther Brill, he does some really cool morphing photos. Their was anohter company doing cool changing photographs at HauntCon, but I can't remember the name right off, if I do I will post it later.

Big Greg ~~~ Fear by Design !


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

As I remember it the haunted mansions portrait changes no matter where you are in the room. I am almost positive you would nead a PROJECTOR** to do that. THe ones for $110 only change when you walk by them. I personally think that they are corney, and even if they werent i would only spend at maximum $50. But thats me.

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## wolf65 (Sep 3, 2002)

They use rear projection for the stages of transformation. I found the info at Doombuggies:
http://www.doombuggies.com/secrets_load.htm

<center>“by the Pricking of My Thumbs, Something Wicked This Way Comes.”</center>


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## Big Greg (Mar 26, 2004)

The ones Sundial Designs were selling use an effect similar to the lighting within a pepper's ghost setup; one light goes on in front of the object from above, then dim at the same time a light is powered up from the back at the bottom. Cool effect and it works pretty much anytime you can see the face of the portrait, even from the sides.

Big Greg ~~~ Fear by Design !


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## syrus (May 19, 2004)

Hi, I looked up sundial designs on the web and couldn't find any changing portraits. Is there a web address anyone?........Thanks


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## Thedarktomb (May 10, 2004)

Here is the web address:

http://www.sundialdesign.com/portraits.html



The Dark Tomb - Psychological Terror at it's best!


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## Thedarktomb (May 10, 2004)

Sundial Design has some creepy looking static portraits too. One comment on that though is that here in Texas I can get similar creepy portraits in an old frame at antique shops and thrift stores for around $10 - $15. You just have to look around. You can normally get a good deal if you ask for it. 

How many people shop at an antique store to buy a creepy old portrait of someone else's family member to put in their house?



The Dark Tomb - Psychological Terror at it's best!


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## rweso (Jul 25, 2003)

You can also use UV paint to make changing portraits. If you have any artistic ability you can paint on top of an existing picture with UV paint. Invisible when a black light is not on and when activated the UV image apears.


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## Dear-In-Headlights (Mar 16, 2004)

Darktomb, my friend found a collection of extremely creepy clown portraits/paintings in some really unique frames. They give me the creeps every time I look at them and he got a super deal on them at a thrift store. Also, I dont know where in Texas you live, but I know that out toward Waxahachie there's antique shops that line the highways, I've stopped in some of them and felt like I stepped into the house from Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Unfortunately these places want an arm and a leg (not literally) for any of their items.



FoLlOw Me To ThE eNd Of ThE wOrLd, AnD i'Ll Be ThE oNe To PuSh YoU oFf ThE eDgE.


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

When the UV paint is put o n its clear, correct?

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

When the UV paint is put o n its clear, correct?

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## syrus (May 19, 2004)

Ya, I suppose you could do the same thing with "glow in the dark paint" That's pretty transparent, and when the light is off the ghostly image appears.........


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

cool thanks

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## hauntedmemories (Mar 16, 2004)

Hi everyone,

For those of you who want some really cool changing portrait props, here is the link to my website www.hauntedmemories.com Visit and judge for yourself if these are "corney" (sic). I can assure you that their transformation is extremely crowd-pleasing (Mr. Ball's generous comments notwithstanding). Check out my customer feedback if you want an actual _informed_ opinion.

If you have a walk-through maze, then the fact that you have to move to see these change should not be a problem whatsoever. And unlike a projector, these will never break down or overheat, and will never require a new bulb. So these are the most cost-effective way you can go. Just put them in a frame, hang 'em up, and they'll do all the work! No batteries or electronics are required.

And to make it even sweeter, they are on sale for $99.99 each during the month of May 2004 (sold unframed only). I will even sign the backs upon request!

-Eddie Allen
Artist and Founder of "Haunted Memories"


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## Thedarktomb (May 10, 2004)

Haunted Memories,

I believe this discussion was started because we were looking for alternatives to paying $100 for a single print. For $100 I can build a mechanical dropping portrait complete with creepy portrait, pneumatics, trigger, frame, and wall inset.

No offense, I just didn't think anyone wanted to turn this into an advertisement.



The Dark Tomb - Psychological Terror at it's best!


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## hauntedmemories (Mar 16, 2004)

Hi Darktomb,

My portraits are neat, clean, and easy for people to use. Simply put it in a frame, hang it up, and you're finished. There's no construction like a "wall inset" required and no mechanical parts that can break down. Simplicity is always better!

Frankly, the transformation of a mechanical "dropping" portrait sounds pretty hokey and more like a pop-up head. My portraits feature changes that are smooth and highly-effective, and if you take care of them they will NEVER break down.

Remember people, these portraits are not just props--they are spooky works of art for the discriminating collector. Rob Zombie himself has two of them hanging in his home office and they are also displayed in Hollywood's Magic Castle. 

$100.00 is nothing in today's world! Gimmie a break!


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

Thanks HM, but TDT's idea is a scarier effect. Its more surprising. Your prop would be good for mood setting, however most of the people here dont have 100 bucks just for mood setting, they would rather be doing automation. How much does it actually cost you to make those, and how much time goes into them. No offense, but they would sell a lot more for 15 bucks.

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

Hey, Darktomb, I think he's dissing you, LOL

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## Vlad (Nov 2, 2003)

Don't lol too much Crazy he was dissing you first.
As for a hundred dollars being nothing in this world,give "me" a break.That hundred dollars to a working family like mine makes a hell of a big difference.

Ask not for whom the bell tolls......


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## sprfly (Oct 19, 2002)

Although I wouldn't mind having several of these portraits hanging on my walls for this year's Halloween party (they are fabulous looking), I do have to agree with Vlad...$100 IS</u> something in today's world. I could be wrong, but it seems to me making bold statements like that aren't going to get a positive response from this forum, let alone is it a sound business tactic. This forum could very well be one of your biggest audiences.

-fly
Check out my props here


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

Thanks, I realized he was dissng me first. But maybe we should all buy now, after all they are only 99.99! What a great deal for a 16X20 piece of plastic. Has anyone ever tried buying one of those picture frames that are just black stretch fabric with a form of a head that pushes out when someone passes by. They are about 7 bucks at CVS after halloween. Although there is no actual picture you could probably put white stretchy fabric on it and print a portrait on transfer paper.

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## hauntedmemories (Mar 16, 2004)

Mr. Ball, these will NEVER sell for a mere "$15.00 bucks." That doesn't even cover the cost of the materials, let alone my time, effort, the value of my artwork, and the rarity of these pieces! To characterize it as nothing more than a 16" x 20" piece of plastic is not only erroneous, but is truly disrespectful. You started the attack on me first (go back and read your initial post), so I am justified in my responses.

You are right when you say that these are more designed to create a mood setting. These are not supposed to make you jump, so they should not be compared to TDT's idea or those cheap pop-out faces you mentioned. My portraits' changes are subtle and they sneak up on you. People have screamed when they didn't expect to see the changes. I've had many people write and tell me what a hit these were at their Halloween parties, so I know I'm selling a quality item that satisfies. I don't need your approbation.

I'll admit that $99.99 is a lot of money to a working family. But remember---this is not a necessity like a loaf of bread or a carton of milk. This is a luxury-item (a collectible art piece) and the finer things in life cost money sometimes. If you don't want it, don't buy it. I have plenty of other people who recognize the value of my work and who realize that this is an investment. They have asked me to sign the back of the portraits because they appreciate my work and want it signed by the artist. It's been very gratifying.

If you think I'm overcharging, try making one yourself. You'll tear your hair out when you discover how expensive and difficult it really is. Considerable time, effort, and wasted material was involved before these were perfected and all things considered, these are cheap.

That's all I have to say. I'm not interested in getting into a pointless flame war on here. I have better things to do with my time.
(Hopefully you do, as well).

"None are so blind as those who will not see."


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

I never said they were crap or anything like that. And since they looked professional I figured they were mass produced. That is why I asked how much time you put into each one. I do feel that they are a little over done in the last phase(when they are all dead). I am not trying to launch a "personal attack" but you are making these seem like they are more then they really are. I do apologize for calling them a piece of plastic for I did not realize they were priceless artwork.

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## Thedarktomb (May 10, 2004)

Wow, let me put my big toe in and see if the water's warm? Okay, now let me bandage that toe because it is burnt completely off.

Haunted Memories, please understand, that it is my understanding, and I'm sure Larry will correct me if I'm wrong as I'm still fairly new here, that people bounce ideas off of each other and ask for opinions in the "Prop" section as a large scale brainstorming session. I think we all value the distinctly wide and varied feedback on solutions to prop building dilemas and general ideas. I have certainly grown since joining this forum, to which I'm very thankful. Because this is brainstorming at it's best, if you drop an advertisement for your product in the middle of a discussion, you have to expect that it will be criticized, massaged, talked over, and so forth. Is your portrait a neat idea and mood setting, Yes. Is it expensive, Yes. Is it a Picasso, No. Does it truly create a psychological scare, No. My wife and I went to Ripley's Haunted Adventure in San Antonio and they had one of your pictures up. I knew what is was from seeing your website. My wife didn't even know it was a changing portrait because she never looked at the picture long enough while she walked by. What is fascinating is that these are just my personal opinions. But that's exactly what a forum is, people sharing personal experiences, opinions, and ideas.

I am writing this because I would hate to see the great people on here feel afraid to make comments on topics because they'll get attacked. You have one idea for a mood setting portrait, and it's a good idea. There are dozens if not hundreds of ideas for mood setting portraits in every price range. Heck, you could use blacklight paint over a yard sale antique portrait and trigger a blacklight with a motion sensor. All for under $30. 

Anyway, I hope everyone had a great weekend.



The Dark Tomb - Psychological Terror at it's best!


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

Thank you DT!! I couldn't have said it better myself.

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## syrus (May 19, 2004)

Hi everyone, I started this thread because I saw Eddie Allen's changing portrait on eBay. And I was so impressed with it I just had to find more information about it And possibly do it myself. But after some reasearch it sound's pretty complicated and involved. And I think It is well worth the $100 for a big 16X20 for something so unique as this. Maybe if you read this Eddie you could explain how involved it is without giving away any secrets away. Also I search the web and no one else is doing this type of art. Which I do think this is an art form that Eddie is doing. My hat's off to you Eddie, keep up the good work!.........Syrus


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## rweso (Jul 25, 2003)

Ok, Eddie I work as a graphic designer for the number one selling weekly magazine. We often use lenticular covers. So if anyone knows what your talking about or what is involved it would be me. Yes $15 is way more than the cost of supplies. If you pay that much for supplies then you should find a different supplier. Our magazines sell for $2.50 and that incudes content. Granted yours is on a larger scale but $100? "Gimme a break!" Time? It's mass produced so that's a one time issue. You can't justify the price with the reasons you give because I know better. The fact is you are following the rules of supply and demand. You sell a unique item for what people are willing to pay for it. Tell it like it is. It's about the money not the artwork. It's a business. You are apparently makeing enough money selling them the way you are and you see no need to lower the price. I see no problem with that, it's the way the world works.

One thing I ask is how much have you researched your demographic? I know many people who would like your product but can't afford the price tag. I think these people would easily pay $50 for it. Sure you would make half as much but you would sell five times as many. Even those who could afford to buy them at $100 would now buy more than one and giveing you even more money. You also have to keep the future in mind. The software that is sold to do this is coming down in price. Soon you will have competition or even worse, these people would be able to make them themselves. Do you know why computers are so cheap nowadays? because everybody has one and the need isn't as great. They were more expensive when they were new technology. Just like plasma TV's today. You have one advantage that they don't...no competition. Good marketing would be to make sure you sell these to as many people as possible so that when the competition arrives they have no-one to sell to. Get the market NOW. That's what IBM did. As an artist yourself you know that MACs are a far superior computer, but IBM sold to everyone for a cheaper price and that's why IBM dominates the market. Just something to think about.

By the way I do think you sell a good product, just overpriced for my taste.


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## syrus (May 19, 2004)

RWESO, the thing is that you are a graphic designer</u> and you probably could pull something like this off, But how much money and how long would it take the average Joe Smo to learn how to do this? Most people buying this item don't have the money or the time to put into a product to make one or two for themselves.......Also, I don't think Eddie has to worry about very much compitation. His type of art appeals to me and everyone else in this forum because that's who we are, but I think most of the people out there in the world wouldn't want this on their walls...........Just my thoughts........


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## sisvicki (Jan 30, 2004)

um, hello?, excuse me?

Not to change this subject or butt in, but what is that software called?

HHH


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## rweso (Jul 25, 2003)

Syrus, I beleive I cover most of your questions already. Photo editing software has already put most graphic designers out of business. It has gotten easy enough for the average joe to do most anything with little training. The pictures that Eddie has can be done with two images. One is unedited and can be found at yard sales, the internet or fleemarkets. A basic cut and paste can give you a crude alteration to the image. Once you have the two images you would run them through a filter that combines the two. Lay the lenticular lens on top and you are done. If you want more detail to the animatioin then you can run the two images through a morph program. The only real skill needed is to be able to doctor the original image. If you have the two images you can even make a primative one useing a paper shredder.

You are right that he doesn't have much competition, but that is right now, what about next week or next year. You have to think long term. He pretty much corners the haunt demographic but this can be use in many other areas including movie posters, religious iconography...etc. Anyone who can do one can do the other.

If you ask me there are more home haunters than haunt attractions. I see a much broader market for these.


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## rweso (Jul 25, 2003)

sisvicki, you can find a bunch of software for this. Just do a search for Lenticular software.


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## Thedarktomb (May 10, 2004)

One software program is the "Lenticular Construction Kit". It turns Adobe Photoshop files into Lenticular images for printing with an inkjet printer. The software is around $500, but you can download a working demo for free. I'm going to try an experimental image just for the challenge of it. 

For small quantities, lenticular paper with the lenticular plastic sheet is around $3.00 for a 20 x 28 sheet. A bottle of the glue to adhere the lenticular plastic to the paper is $5.00. I don't have a printer that will print larger than 8 1/2 x 11 so unless I print this onto six pages and try to hide the seems, I'm going to pay the $6.00 to have kinkos print 20 x 28 images from the disk-on-key I give them.
I'm going to use a freeware halloween image on the internet and morph the picture with Photoshop. 

If I do this, I figure here's my cost for three 20 x 28 images:

3 x $3.00 20 x 28 sheets of lenticular plastic sheeting.
1 x $5.00 bottle of lenticular paper glue.
3 x $6.00 printing fee at Kinkos to print the large image.
3 images - free off internet (personal creativity in the morphing).
1 30 day trial download of Adobe Photoshop - free
1 trial download of Lenticular Construction Kit - free
1 x $2.00 wooden rolling pin (to press the lenticular sheet onto the paper and spread the glue evenly.) 
-----------------------------------
$34.00 or $11.33 per picture. 

Rweso, am I on the right track here?





The Dark Tomb - Psychological Terror at it's best!


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## rweso (Jul 25, 2003)

Sounds good to me TDT. Let us all know how you make out. Looks like eddie is going to have that compitition sooner than later.


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## Thedarktomb (May 10, 2004)

This Lenticular Construction Kit is pretty cool. I didn't realize how many different types of features you could apply within a Lenticular Image. I think I'm going to go for broke and try a series of six images interlaced inside one picture so I can simulate a zombie jumping out of the portrait at the viewer. 

I'll list how long it took me for each step and what I found out along the way. I've got to interlace this with other manditory projects I have to finish before the end of August.



The Dark Tomb - Psychological Terror at it's best!


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

I am very interested to see how it turns out. You could also probably find a full version of that for free. Before i knew about the lawsuits I had a few grand in software, illegally of course.

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## syrus (May 19, 2004)

I am very interested to see how it turns out also! I was under the impression that you needed special photography equiptment, but it turns out that you just need softwear! Well as you can see I don't know much about either. Keep us posted with the results, it looks like some fun projects for us if this works


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

yah, 11 bucks for one isn't a bad deal. I hope this doesn't make people change their minds about purchasing one online.

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## hauntedmemories (Mar 16, 2004)

Thank you all for your recent posts. It has been quite amusing! 
Darktomb's highly-optimistic (and sadly ignorant) analysis gave me the biggest belly-laugh I've had in years!

You are in for a BIG surprise, my friend. It's not as easy as you think. Bottle of glue? Rolling pin? Assembling six separate portraits and hiding the seams? Oh my God, you are so naive...you're portrait is going to look like crap.

As I said before, these are NOT mass-produced. Each one is assembled by hand and it takes a lot of time and EXPERTISE. That is worth something alone. You're going to waste a lot of time, effort, and money before you ever get one to work - especially in that size.

I'm glad you are going to try though. In the end it will vindicate me and you'll see that for $99.99 my portraits are a bloody BARGAIN! 

But of course by then they will cost more. Remember, $99.99 was the SALE price.

Cheers!


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## bourno (Apr 7, 2004)

Ya know, you have made no friends here as I can see. Even though I don't post much as I have only just recently decided to look for halloween forums to share ideas on props, but the only thing I see you have contributed has been promoting your product which I haven't mind.

Well, until now. I understand why you posted that as this topic has some statements that have tried to be-little your items for sale. I did some research too, but don't have any interest in pursuing lenticular (motion card) props as you have made a business out of.

If you want to continue to fan the flames, I guess that is your choice.


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

hey HM, when darktomb gets it right we'll see whos laughing. He said he was gonna give it a shot, not that he was the all powerful god of lenticular works. I can see you have great customer relations skills though. Also since you are such an expert, and we have determined that it will cost about 11 bucks in materials. zi think 100 buck for labor is a little high.

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## hauntedmemories (Mar 16, 2004)

Mr. Ball, 

Don't count your chickens before they hatch. Darktomb has not even successfully created one yet and frankly he doesn't know what he's talking about. It may only cost him $11.00 to make it the way he plans to make it, but he has no idea how many things can go wrong. If you consider that time is money, he will be spending a lot more than $11.00. It is HARD work and requires incredible skill and patience. 

You guys talk like the only consideration in pricing an item is the cost of materials. That shows that you have no business sense. Time and labor is worth something. Skill and expertise is worth something. Original artwork is worth something. The rarity of the item is worth something, as well. 

After several years of working on these, I have developed some expertise. I know what the pitfalls are and I know exactly what to do to avoid waste. And even then, mistakes occur and material is wasted. 

I am not trying to "fan the flames" - I am just defending my position.
I am passionate about this because it is maddening to see you guys sit back and spew harsh criticism about my prices when you have no idea how hard I have worked on these. You think you know everything about it and you DON'T. You are completely ignorant of this process and the work (and equipment) that's involved. 

If you were in my position with my knowledge and experience of the difficulties and intricacies of this process, you'd be irritated as well. And you would never let your work go for as cheaply as you are suggesting.

If I have offended anyone who has not been attacking me, that was not my intention. My responses may have "fanned the flames," but don't forget that Mr. Ball started the fire by insulting my product. Darktomb kept it going by making ignorant proclamations. It's hard to let such innaccuracies stand unchallenged.

I really shouldn't let it bother me. Business is great and I have more orders than I can keep up with. Guess I'll get back to work and let you all fight about it.


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

May I remind you that darktomb is in the graphics design business and these are done for his magazine. So I guess that does not make him completly ignorant.

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## syrus (May 19, 2004)

Dark tomb, What magazine do you work with?


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## putrid (Aug 18, 2002)

Sorry folks, gotta get my 'toe burned off' as well. LOL

Changing pictures are nothing new. Ones made in 1800s America were done of Civil War heroes and presidents. Some of the better ones even did three portraits in one picture. These were done with folded paper. Some of them were walk past ones but most were operated by a pull string or lever. I don't know if there's any web site dedicated to this type of art work but you might look into the Smithsonian or the American Museum of Science. 

I'm happy you can get $99.99 for a 16 by 20 picture. I get anywhere form $70 to $150 for my Santa's. When I was in grade school I traded my artwork for Little Debbie snack cakes and thought I was in the big time. Getting paid for art isn't anything new. And I'm not going to add to the debate on mass production. I know the +'s and -'s of small business. Most of us are hands on people here. if there's something out there that's already done there's a way it was done. That's how we think. I wanted corpses for our haunt. 1= can't afford a 4th class bucky. + 2= highly allergic to ammonia so there's no way I can work with latex. SOLUTION figure out how I can manipulate what I have to create what I want. Now I have corpses for my haunt and have made one for a semi-pro haunt. If you check out our photo album on this forum and my web site you'll see there not bad looking critters for paper mache. Posted my how-to's on a web site that has gotten some awards (none added to the site) and 4 links from the Monster List. I think the best thing to remember is lots of people visit this site and see your portraits. I really hope you sell more than you did the year before. But you can't take a car into a garage filled with mechanics and say you can't touch this without getting a few stairs.



“If you measured your life by moments instead of minuets and hours how many moments would you waste?"
"This moment was brought to you by THE END."


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

we did the folded paper thing in 3rd grade,

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## Screamhaunt (Jan 7, 2004)

I believe that the changing portraits were acheived by rear facing projectors. If you are into the Haunted Mansion as much as I am, goto Doombuggies.com There are explanations for everything.

Screamhaunt


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## Screamhaunt (Jan 7, 2004)

I have been following this exciting posting and am VERY eager to hear how everyone's creations turn out. The thing I want to mention is "we are all a special breed of society, and there is a mutual respect among us" I am sure we have posted on many chatrooms and have found immaturity, and disrespect. It is easy to tell who our brothers are. I can honestly say that I have learned HUNDREDS of ideas from the people on here, and everyone who ever replied to my posts are selfless (even the other business owners) I honestly feel that the majority of people on here post because they enjoy what they do, and they enjoy helping others feel the same sort of satisfaction that other hard core Halloween entheusiasts do. It saddens me when I see people becomming offended. From what I have noticed in the past, is when people turn the Forum into a sales pitch, other than just merely mentioning something interesting, or an occasional "look at my site" thing. Another thing I think people will learn is that there are regulars that post here, and of course it is human nature for people that spend lots of time talking to each other to defend one another. I am not being disrespectful here, but I would like to try to preserve something nice here. It is awesome to visit HalloweenForum.com after busing my rear end all day, and sit down with a beverage of some unspecified nature in my hand and chat with friends, that I never met. Sorry do droan, but I think everyone here knows what I am getting at. Everyone on here has something to contribute, and is important.

Screamhaunt


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## Screamhaunt (Jan 7, 2004)

In all due respect, HauntedMemories, I am sure you have some pretty cool stuff, but many people here are very intelligent and from what I have seen build lots of wonderful things. I could only imagine the haunted house we could all build if we got together with our ideas and talents. Again, with all due respect, and I am in no way trying to offend you, I would personally give the issue a rest, being that many of these people on here are VERY connected to one another. You can charge whatever you want for something, but if you want to establish a good reputation, it is better to be passive with people, especially people that wholesale, and re-sell things. There are some "big boys" that post here and you never know who you are talking to. I would like to see one of these props. I know nothing about how these things are created, or what money or time goes into them. I am only trying to be objective and cause a positive thing to come of all this. Halloween is coming fast and hopefully we can all work together and help each other.

Screamhaunt


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## jcarpenter2 (May 30, 2004)

I do i agree with you screamhaunt. As a newbie to this site i was very surprised at this thread. I am a member to a few woodworking forums and this thread would never have been tolerated in those forums. As soon as the advertisement was put here it should have been deleted with an admonishment to the one who placed the ad. There are proper places for advertisements in this forum, but this thread was not it. As everyone can see advertisements do not add to the quality of the discussion, however, they do breed discontention between members. From what i have read in the many threads of discussion on this forum, not only are people here trying to be cost effective in their props, but they seem to enjoy the challenge of a creating something with their hands. I would hope all business minded individuals would realize this and curtail their advertising appropriatly. This is not to degrad any business, for yours is a road i would not travel down, just remember - you must know your market.

Life is full of choices - if you don't like your life - make better choices


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

Larry(THE guy) doesn't mind plugs every once in a while. But I still back you up 110 percent. Putting a plug in semi randomly is annoying, in this scenario it sparked a fued. I am well awhere the HM may throw an accusation at me for starting this rather pointless argument.Also, larry, ever consider making a forum branch for arguments? so if something like this starts it can be forwarded there. Not personal arguments, but arguments like this, over a products ability.

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## Screamhaunt (Jan 7, 2004)

I TOTALLY agree with the two of you. It would be nice for a "hashing link", if someone has a gripe, that would be the place to go. It could be labeled "Difference of Opinion" and leave it at that. Anyone who felt annoyed at the world and wanted to post something there would be good to go. To be honest, I have monitored Larry and he seems to check each and ever square inch of his site. The unfortunate thing for him, is that he must feel the constant burdon of discriminating as to what is either disrespect or freedom of speech. I have observed him shut others down real quick. I kind of think that he leaves it to the rest of us to handle things at times. Like I said before, any professional knows that there is a "mutual respect" for the people that are interested in the same sort of thing. The same as Fire Fighters, EMT's and Cops have. All of us are into what we do because we LOVE it and we feel that special sort of thing that we can't explain, when we live it. If it was all about making money, we would have 360 degree interest, not just a one month of the year business. I can recall having my own Haunted House at age 8. You either have it or you don't. I would rather be addicted to Halloween and Haunted Houses, rather than crack. Although I will probably post the "addiction to Glycol" link soon enough because I really think I need to see a doctor. Breathing in that stuff 3-4 nights a week can be addicting. Don't forget, I have my Halloween party all year. Again, I think that the problem is kicked in the rear. I am sure that there is the money making drive in us all, but lets not lose friends over it, because you never know what you lost until its gone.


Screamhaunt


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## Screamhaunt (Jan 7, 2004)

JCarpenter2, you are going to love the site, and the people that post on it, believe me. The stuff that went on was probably an "I'm having a bad day issue" which we all have from time to time. It is easy to take people the wrong way here at times. The best thing to do when in question, is just keep friendly and post. It will be plain to see that there are many personalities on here and every one of them has a different personality, such as ourselves. I have spent NUMEROUS nights nearly peeing myself laughing at the humor here. Personally, I think that J. Leno would be bye bye, if some of these people took over his show. LMAO!

Screamhaunt


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

I joined this forum in crisis a few weeks before last halloween for emergency help. After talking about my situation I forgot about it over the winter, I know, that should be a sin. I just started using it again about 2 months ago. One day I was having a really really bad day, I dont remember exactly what happened. Someone responded in a way i didn't exactly agree with, so I said some things I regret, and on a normal basis I never would have said. Thankfully larry removed them. Heres a link to that convo. http://www.halloweenforum.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2223. Let me just put forth one point about that talk... My view on that particular subject was why not make things as upsetting and discomforting as possible. Would that idea be upsetting to you, would it freak you out somewhat? That was my point in the conversation. You can respond in the thread the above link ws for.

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## Screamhaunt (Jan 7, 2004)

crazymjb, I am going to dig into this, because you are a brother Halloweener. I work in the Emergency Services Field. I have seen some VERY HARD TO DEAL WITH TRAUMA. Although I am all about blood and guts, I only apply it to Halloween type stuff. I can escape into another type of world, when I deal with Halloween. There is a difference between real and sort of real. I am sure that you would agree, that the kid being hit by a car was very traumatic, and you chose to deal with it in the typical fashion. A typical fashion would be......."what a dummy, he got plastered by a car. This is sometimes the way we deal with reality, tragedy, and a difficult to deal with situation. Unfortunately, there is no one that could understand how you felt about things, more than you can. On the other side of the coin, there is the community that has either heard about, been bothered by, or have been touched by a freak accident that claimed the life of someone special. I think that the problem you encountered, is that you do in some way care, and felt angered towards what happened, and it in some way shape or form ruined your festivity, which is a natural reaction. I myself feel angered and frustrated, but have to restrain myself from giving someone a piece of my A--. Case in point, I responded to a residence dealing with a newborn with a head laceration. I got there and found a heavyset grandmother, sitting in a chair with a baby containing a severe head laceration. She was sitting on a recliner and the baby fell down through the footrest and wound up laying on the floor. The Grandma put the footrest down and pounded the newborn with nothing but the metal contraption underneath. At the time, I felt angered, frustrated and wanted to call her every bad name in the book, but after realizing the truth, I am glad that I acted professional. The G-ma, let the baby slide under the chair and had a panic attack, which caused her to put the footrest down. I seriously refuse to believe that anyone other than 10% of the population thrives on other people misery, so I can tell you this......Let it go, continue posting, and watch what you say from now on. Obviously you are bothered by what happened, and had the courage to bring it up. I respect you for that. If you need to talk, my email is [email protected]
In the Halloween Industry, there will be accidents, and there will be displeasure, but we can't always be politically correct. My service pulled into a home with a young man hanging from a rope a while back. It is sad, and I can tell you from the heart that it ruined the quality of those people responding's lives, but we can't give in to reality, when we put the fantasy world into play. The fantasy world is what keeps me going. I can see trauma, dismay and always know that I have control over it. Larry most likely took care of it, because he is an administrator and did what he had to do, to take care of something he had the hindsight to see coming. I am sure there was no disrespect. With all of us having a craving to the unknown, there is no doubt that someone will be P.O.'D at someone else eventually. What we can do is be there for each other, and never break the mutual understanding that each other has. I am sure that if you go to other chat areas, you will never find a group of people that have such a brotherhood. Only WE can be this strange. God Bless.

Screamhaunt


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## larry (Apr 5, 2002)

Wow!
Okay, now I have to say something. 

I have learned a lot by this thread. 

Almost every post has some excellent points.

First, because of the original content of this post, hauntedmemories was more than welcome to post a link to their site as long as it is relevant and does not occur more than once a month.

I think the discussion about cost is interesting. There are a lot of people who will pay big money for props that do not want to deal with building them. There are many others who can do it themselves. 

This is a discussion forum. If you do not like something or disagree then by all means…post…post…post. Just always be respectful and do not call people names. Chances are that no matter what the subject is that someone will not agree. That is great as long as there are no personal attacks. If somebody truly insults you, please email me via the forum and I will respond as soon as possible.

Remember: Thousands of people will eventually read this post. People will judge you by your posts. 

BTW: I really had to bite my tongue in this post.

Thank you.


--------
Larry M.

www.TheHalloweenNetwork.com


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## Thedarktomb (May 10, 2004)

I will certainly post pictures, and detail prop plans when I am finished with this. I love it when someone tell me I can't do something. I guess it's that whole Type A personality. I just finished my sliding portrait prop this weekend. I've posted pictures under the photo section. The cost for it was around $50.00. The strobe light and digital sound have not been figured into the cost.





The Dark Tomb - Psychological Terror at it's best!


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## Screamhaunt (Jan 7, 2004)

Wow, that sounds great.

Screamhaunt


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

Screamhaunt, I know exactly what you mean. Car accidents are rare in my area, but this was disturbing. If i were to make an accident i would make it unrealistically horrible, it was just an idea. Also, I know the feeling when an injury occurs. I was sno tubing at a local hill with some friends and 2 kids, 3 and 5 came flying by. They went into this little river thing about a 10 foot drop, but they cleared it and hit the other side. The younger kid had a head laceration about 2 inches with blood dripping down his face. the other kid had a leg fracture, never mind they were soaking wet and screaming. I was literally about 5 feet away. Otheres were there and jumped in to grab them.I myself have been to the emergency room a fair amount of times, ounce I cut my lag down to the bone on a piece of metal. The thing is everyone in my neighborhood is super critical. Most of the people here are jewis, including me, I did get some argument about a gravestone with a cross on it, and setting up visable halloween props during before and during the jewish holidays, inconvieniently a week before halloween. Never mind one neigbor who hates our family.

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## Thedarktomb (May 10, 2004)

Wow Crazy, if it were me, I'd have to move. I have to start decorating the yard 2 weeks before Halloween. In my neighborhood, it has become a tradition and dozens of cars do nightly drives past my house with their kids hanging out the window. They almost expect it now, but always appreciate it. I wouldn't have it any other way.

The Dark Tomb - Psychological Terror at it's best!


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## sprfly (Oct 19, 2002)

I agree. I have a hard time playing to the masses, especially when it comes to something that I'm passionate about. Halloween literally lasts the entire month of October (prop displays, etc.) for me and it would no matter who thought it inappropriate. I am considerably luckier than most though. The people in my neighborhood really enjoy everything I do for their kids. I don't envy you crazy. It must be a real drag.

-fly

Check out my props here


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

I love where I live, I just need new neighbors. I also wish I had a bigger yard, or at least one thats not on a slope. However this year i will set up a walkthrough so it wont really be visable to people. The good thing about publicity here is that the local news is in such need of stories that they are now talking about britney spears and her love life along with colin ferral and cameron diaz, literally. So I was inspired by some other home haunter who I can easily beat by scare factor who was on the news. They are posted somewhere along with the news clip on halloween monster project links. I am also going to post big signs this year. The most people I ever got was about 50 or 60  Due to the fact I live on a dead end.

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

Pics of the setup for my walkthrough available in my album.

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## rweso (Jul 25, 2003)

That's about what I got the first year I did it. Last year I got close to 500.


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

How long was it open?

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## rweso (Jul 25, 2003)

Well since my wife runs a daycare out of the house I have to set up on Halloween day. I opened at 5PM and ran out of candy at around 8:30PM. Lol, the neighbors are complaining that I'm driving up the candy prices.


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

Cool, I dont want to sound greedy, but what do you think a fair price would be. On halloween it would be free, but nobody actually needs to know that. I need the money, of course it would all go into halloween and a certain percent would go to the jimmy fund.

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## rweso (Jul 25, 2003)

Well to stay away from the legal police I would just ask for donations. Cause once you start charging then you run into a LOT of legal issues. And, to be honest, it would cost you more to get up to par than the money you make. Donations, however, are voluntary. Just post a sign and a box. I know of a buch of people who do that and make a decent amount.


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

My father is a lawyer, so I could ask him about it. Some people last year charged, however it was all for charity.

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## Thedarktomb (May 10, 2004)

Once you start charging admission, it changes the whole dynamic on legal liability and homeowner's insurance. If you charge admission and someone has an accident on your property, I don't believe your home owners insurance covers that. And for a whole seperate policy you are talking $500 at an extremely bare minimum, but more likely $1,000 - $3,000 for the event.



The Dark Tomb - Psychological Terror at it's best!


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## Atomic Mystery Monster (Jul 29, 2003)

crazymjb,

I don't know if charging admission would be a good idea. Besides the potential legal problems or increased insurance costs, you'd also have to deal with traffic problems caused by groups of visitors coming down a dead end street (after all, you would be advertising to get people to come to your haunt in order to get more money, wouldn't you?). I'd recommend leaving it as a free haunt on Halloween so that you won't have to deal with traffic snarl-ups. 

You could construct a haunted wishing well instead of or in addition to a donations column. People are more likely to part with what they feel is a small amount of money, like spare change, then they would be with putting a few bucks in a donations box. You'd have an extra incentive to get people to make a wish if you rigged up the well so that it made some sort of scary sound effect(s) whenever a coin was thrown in. 

If you are going to donate some of the money to charity, you should have signs saying so near the donation areas. You should also be up front with the amount you are giving to charity. In my area, a local thrift store that boasted of donating proceeds to charity got in a lot of trouble after it was revealed that it only donated 3% of the price any items sold. I wouldn't expect getting loads of cash, though. After all, who carries money around on Halloween?


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

I was hoping to have it opened for a few weeks. Another idea is to get sponsors to donate X dollers for every visitor. I wouldn't mind donating to charity. Also if its for a charitable cause my parents may help me fund it. As far as "donations" goes I live in a relativly well off neighborhood, unfortunatly it is that way due to peoples greed.

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## frightmaster (Jun 8, 2004)

Hey TDT, I jsut read this entire thread and I too will bite my tongue on this (I will use it as a prop later). I am curious as to how your picture turned out. I, not knowing this thread existed (I know SEARCH) posted a questions about HM's photos, which look great and was looking for a way to get a good quality product for a working class person. 

HM, I am in no way trying to demeen your product as I see valcue in your art.

Halloween only comes around once a year. For us it is from Nov 1 to Oct 31.


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## Thedarktomb (May 10, 2004)

I just received the Lenticular sheets and supplies in the mail this week. I'm going to the Texas Haunter's Dinner this weekend so it will be probably next week before I get to this. I've got to finish my hellhound prop too pretty soon. Halloween is coming too quick this year. I will certainly post plans when I'm finished with my Lenticular Portrait.

The Dark Tomb - Psychological Terror at it's best!


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## putrid (Aug 18, 2002)

The idea of having a face on a tombstone or standing prop change as you walk by is something I might try. I'm looking forward to your pics and how-tos on this on Thedarktomb. Hope it works for ya.




“If you measured your life by moments instead of minuets and hours how many moments would you waste?"
"This moment was brought to you by THE END."


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## syrus (May 19, 2004)

frightmaster-I couldn't help myself,I just ordered one of the changing portraits from haunted memories. Haven't received it yet but ya, it's not worth spending that much money to use as a prop for one week over Halloween. I sell my art on eBay. I figure it would take me at least 3-4 hours of reasearch to even begin to do something like this with a lenticular equiptment, I'll just sell 3-4 hours worth of paintings on eBay to make up for it, It's all the same. But I'm planning on putting it up on my wall year around in my living room to play tricks on people, I'll tell them it's a picture of my great Aunt that was given to me because no one in the family could stand it because they say it's haunted, and then try to get them to look at it from an angle without them knowing what I was trying to do. I think it would be a lot of fun! Anyways, I let every one when I receive it.......


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

Are they able to be returned?

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## Thedarktomb (May 10, 2004)

Well, I've finished my first lenticular changing portrait. And Eddie, I have to say, I'm just wore out (ya right!). This turned out to be one of the easiest props I've done this year. For this test, I went beyond the demo version of the Lenticular Construction Kit and purchased the "Print 3D" software from MediaBop for $22.00. I also scaled down to 8 1/2 x 11 sheets so that I could print them myself with my Epson Photo printer. The 8 1/2 x 11" Lenticular Sheets cost me $2.00 each. These sheets are all in one in that the paper is affixed to the back of the lenticular sheet. The software knows to print the interlaced image backwards. No glue needed to affix a normal piece of paper to the plastic lenticular sheet.

I downloaded a picture of a skull off the internet. I then used MS Paint to change the skull to a demon vampire skull with evil eyes, horns, and blood dripping fangs. Just because I know my buddy Eddie will ask, I'll outline how long it took me to create a changing portrait: 

1. Installation of the Print 3-D software: 5 minutes
2. Learning how to use the Print 3-D software: 10 minutes (it's really pretty simple to use)
3. Time to download picture from internet: 5 minutes 

I could have scanned an antique yard sale picture or something printed in about that much time as well.

4. Time to make a morphed secondary image: 8 minutes (Eddie, I tried to go slow)
5. Time loading both images into software and selecting settings: 5 minutes.

6. Time printing interlaced "Flip" image: 4 minutes

Total time to create a changing portrait image: 37 minutes. 
Of course this includes installing and learning the software as well.

Let's move to cost. It cost me $22.00 for the Print 3-D software. And it cost me $20 for 10 lenticular images. That comes to $4.20 per image. Now granted for this test, I did not scale to 16 x 20 images. If I were to scale to that size, it would cost $5.00 for the same type of all-in-one lenticular sheet that I used here. I talked with Kinkos and to print an image similar to something Eddie has, they would charge me $9.00. They would be printing it directly onto the Lenticular sheet I provided to them with an interlaced image I provided them. That would be a total cost of $14.00 for one picture of that size. Oh, yeah, and you'd have to add the drive time to Kinkos and tiem spent waiting for it to be printed to your total time. 

Even though my first image came out just fine, Eddie did have a couple of valid points about the process. Lenticular Sheets come in different LPI ratings that distinguish how many grooves are in the sheet. My sheets came in 72 LPI. The software you use to make the interlaced image has to match the LPI rating. You also have to calibrate your specific printer so that the image bars line up with the lenticular grooves. With the all-in-one lenticular paper I have, it doesn't leave any room for error. 

When I went in and started messing with the default settings, I printed a couple of pictures that were off the grooves. The pictures still look creepy, it's just that the picture changes at free will it seems like while you're looking at it. The angles are all off. If I were to have Kinkos do a larger size, I think I would have them print the image on plain paper and I would then glue that to a standard lenticular sheet. That way I could line up the grooves myself. The Print 3D software will interlace a 16 x 20 image so you can save it to take to Kinkos. 

I'll record some video of the changing portraits in action as soon as I catch up with my hellhound prop. 

In looking back at this, honestly, I'm more satisfied with a creepy portrait that doesn't change to set mood. And for a scare, I'll go with the sliding/dropping portrait prop any day or use yellow LEDs behind the eyes of a normal portrait. What I may do is print one of these and use it with my sliding portrait prop. You have to look at the picture long enough, while your walking by, to see it change. In a home or commercial haunt, I don't think most people will look with more than a glance.

If anyone has any questions, or would like assistance, on how to do this "impossible" rocket science lenticular printing process, please feel free to contact me.






The Dark Tomb - Psychological Terror at it's best!


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## Thedarktomb (May 10, 2004)

I did manage to post one set of pics so far in my Photo album that shows one of the changing portraits I completed. I'll post more and a video as I get time here.



The Dark Tomb - Psychological Terror at it's best!


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

You could always [edited by ADMIN due to complaint regarding copyright infringement]

...But who has to know?

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## putrid (Aug 18, 2002)

Nice! I checked out your pictures Thedarktomb. I'm thinking if you keep the lines horizontal and use something to slightly rock the picture up and down you could have it's eyes open and close. 




“If you measured your life by moments instead of minuets and hours how many moments would you waste?"
"This moment was brought to you by THE END."


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## sisvicki (Jan 30, 2004)

Jeez, dark, I can't believe you did that so quickly. I tried a search earlier during this thread to read up on Lenticular stuff, but I wasn't able to grasp the finer details. Thinking I might get ahold of that software. I am very excited about putrids idea, it kinda opens a new door for enhancing some props. Keep up the good work!

HHH


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## syrus (May 19, 2004)

Darktomb, where can I see pictures of the changing portrait? I went to your web site but couldn't find anything..........


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## bourno (Apr 7, 2004)

DarkTomb,

When you say the paper is on the back of the sheet, it must be pretty thin to allow the ink to bleed through to the other side. Do the lines stay pretty crisp or do they tend to bleed outward a bit? I didn't look, but did the software and their sheets handle multiple scene shots?

Thanks for the links and pic. Think I will pass for now on playing with this stuff, but I may pass the information onto my nephew (a young, budding photographer) and maybe he could use this to offer 'true' action photos.


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## Thedarktomb (May 10, 2004)

Syrus, the pictures are not on my website, they are on the photo album here under TheDarkTomb. 

Bourno, the sheets are pretty thin. One side of the sheet is the lenticular plastic. The other side of the sheet is a thin film paperlike material. It prints a pretty crisp image. The only caveat is that you have to feed it through the printer one at a time. For a photographer this would be great because you can also create 3-D images using layers of the same photograph or motion shots with up to 10 photos interlaced. 

I wanted to create a series of images that would mimic a zombie jumping out of the portrait, but after thinking about it, I said why mimic that when I can use the pneumatic sliding portrait to have a read zombie jump out. 

Another cool effect I was able to create when I was playing with the settings was to decrease the frame time. I did this with the lenticular horizontal. The accidental effect is that no matter what angle you look at the skull picture, it looks like the eyes are watching you and following you. I think I'm going to frame that one for the haunt. It even creeps me out. 

Crazy, I don't know what you're talking about but it would be disrespectful to touch anything from HM's website. I did this project as a challenge and to show everyone that a home haunter can create something similar for a lot less than a hundred bucks. Regardless of his attitude, you have to respect what Eddie has done, and no one can say he doesn't have a passion for haunting.

The Dark Tomb - Psychological Terror at it's best!


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## Screamhaunt (Jan 7, 2004)

I agree. I think there is nothing wrong with wanting to mimic something, but if you copy someones work directly, it could probably be grounds for a lawsuit at the least, not to mention the fact that there is nothing worth losing friends over. Gotta keep the mutual respect going, no matter how much you have the itch. Crazy, there are stores like Spencers, and poster shops that have very creepy gothic, spooky and abnormal posters. It would be possible to use one of them instead, and create your project. After all, if you become good at what you do, you could probably market your own things successfully.

Screamhaunt


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

I think a poster of michael jackson changing from before all his surgeory to after would be great. IT happened about that fast.

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## syrus (May 19, 2004)

I think the Exorcist girl changing into the demon would be cool too..........


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## Screamhaunt (Jan 7, 2004)

Crazy, now that FUNNY!, you couldn't be more correct on that one. But Mr. Jackson still says he never touched his face.

Screamhaunt


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

How can he say that? I didnt think that it was possible to deny that. It would be like me saying I am a blonde haired 52 year old flying monkey!!

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## syrus (May 19, 2004)

I think michael jackson is a great example of what happens when someone has way too much money and way too much time on his hands. He's only about 45 years old and his face is distroyed. Were going to be using his image for Halloween props in a few more years. He's already pretty scary............


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## putrid (Aug 18, 2002)

Mr. Jackson was telling the truth! The guy alone!!!! He never touched his face. Why would any sane person take a knife and plastic to there own face? He PAID someone ells to do it. LOL

Did anyone see VH1's Ill-estrated cartoon featuring Mickey? They had him in a space ship looking for new planets. His monkey co-pilot had the best line. Micke complained about people not excepting him for who he is and the monkey replied,
" You mean when you were black and had a nose? People like that kind of stuff."




“For you it was the most important day of your life. For me....It was Tuesday.”


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## syrus (May 19, 2004)

South park did a pretty funny one on Mr. Jackson too........


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## drunk_buzzard (Sep 9, 2003)

The South Park episode was quite hilarious with the Michael transformation. You can see images of the episode at comedycentral.com

"Howdy folks! Ya like blood, violence, freaks of nature?" -- Capt. Spaulding, House of 1000 Corpses


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## drunk_buzzard (Sep 9, 2003)

Hey darktomb, I love the pics. I noticed you have a section for a 4' pneumatic spider. Where did you get the idea for this, and it is complicated to make? I'm planning a "spider room" for my house this year.

"Howdy folks! Ya like blood, violence, freaks of nature?" -- Capt. Spaulding, House of 1000 Corpses


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## Thedarktomb (May 10, 2004)

The 4' pneumatic spider is a 50" tarrantula spider mounted to a jumping mechanism I built from the Vile Things website. 

He uses his jumping mechanism to propel a skeleton up 4 feet and out 6 feet towards people. I did the same prop mechanism (only I used 2 x 4 and 1 x 4 construction instead of steel framing) only my 50" spider is mounted sideways. The intent is that the spider looks like he is hanging on the wall. As soon as you trip the ECT, he jumps up 4' and out 6' towards people stopping just short of the doorway people are supposed to walk through. I added red LED eyes to the spider to draw attention to him. 

I also have a second 50" spider with red LED eyes that I'll mount on the ceiling at the exit. That one uses a shiatsu neck massager to move his front two legs in a circular motion. These will go at the end of my spider maze which is made up of glow in the dark spider webs and spider victim bodies. I found an awesome sound effect that goes with the whole room. 

I bought both of the spiders from Ebay. One was $20 and the other I paid $50 for. They retail for $100 at frightcatalog.com. 



The Dark Tomb - Psychological Terror at it's best!


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## Thedarktomb (May 10, 2004)

I posted the other headings under my pics so I can add photos as I get a little time here. I'll try to put the Spider Jumping Mechanism up next.



The Dark Tomb - Psychological Terror at it's best!


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

I could figurew out how to do this by having one solenoid activate slightly later with the assistance of an additional ECT but i would like a cheaper way to do it. HAve the jumping mechanism start off slow so people see it and a set time later it is instantly extended.

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

That is why I said it would be copyright infringement. I would not do do what was [removed by admin due to complaint] but you should have a semi transparent sample stamp on your pics.

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## drunk_buzzard (Sep 9, 2003)

Thanks for the info Darktomb. I'm not quite ready to try the jumping mechanism, but I definitely need to find/create a giant spider. If anyone has found plans for making a giant spider, let me know.

"Howdy folks! Ya like blood, violence, freaks of nature?" -- Capt. Spaulding, House of 1000 Corpses


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## Thedarktomb (May 10, 2004)

The Jumping Mechanism really wasn't that hard to complete, but I understand. I was always nervous about pneumatics until I jumped in and started tinkering.

My version of the jumping mechanism is at:

http://www.mansionofterror.com/props.htm



The Dark Tomb - Psychological Terror at it's best!


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

Oh, you used wood instead of metal stock. I love wood but this time I am going to try metal work. I am also going to alter vile things design so that when it is full extended it is more vertical and not horizontal over everyone.

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## Thedarktomb (May 10, 2004)

That's what I'm going to do for my Pneumatic Tombstone Jumper. If you adjust the most distal extension beam, it will spring almost vertical. I'm going to scale the size down for that one so that it reaches a max height of 7 feet.



The Dark Tomb - Psychological Terror at it's best!


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## Thedarktomb (May 10, 2004)

Just remember that by using metal stock, you are doubling or tripling your cost of materials.



The Dark Tomb - Psychological Terror at it's best!


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

Yah, I know, but I have some voice in the back of my head telling me that if i use wood someone is going to lose an eye.Metal is also lighter and stronger, plus i need to dismantle it for storage. Something like jumping mechanism which exerts a lot of force i would rather use metal.

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## Thedarktomb (May 10, 2004)

I understand your concern. Metal stock is not necessarily lighter or easier to dismantle. But does store in a more compact manner. I used treated 2x4s for my jumping mechanism except for the last extension which is a 1x4. It is solid. The wood will have a life of about 5 or 6 years versus 20+ for the metal stock, but you just have to weigh how much you have to spend.



The Dark Tomb - Psychological Terror at it's best!
www.mansionofterror.com/props.htm


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## Thedarktomb (May 10, 2004)

Just to comment on this. The jumping mechanism is really just a big lever with an extension bar. Given the lever is hinged by a bolt on the support stand, there is really little effort to push the lever to the extended position. I use a door spring and bungee cords to add to the tension in both directions. I only have to use around 30 PSI to trigger this with 7 pounds of prop on the end. With that, wood or metal, neither take a real strain from the lever or cylinder.



The Dark Tomb - Psychological Terror at it's best!
www.mansionofterror.com/props.htm


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

What did you use for the cylinder?

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## syrus (May 19, 2004)

Hi everyone, I just received Eddie Allen's changing portrait from haunted memories and I'll tell you this item is cool[8D], I love it. It changes slowy crisp and clear as you walk by. An added bonus that I didn't know about is that the further you walk past it, it changes back to the original image. So it actually changes twice on each side. Nice enough to have on my wall all year around..........Thanks Eddie


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## Thedarktomb (May 10, 2004)

Crazy,

I use a bimba 1 1/4" bore, 10" stroke cylinder. I have a bleeder valve on the secondary cylinder port because the jumping mechanism returns with gravity. I use bungee cords to soften the return so nothing takes damage or excessive wear.



The Dark Tomb - Psychological Terror at it's best!
www.mansionofterror.com/props.htm


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## Thedarktomb (May 10, 2004)

Syrus, 14 posts and they are all under this thread. hmmmm... I still want to give you the benefit of the doubt buddy.

The Dark Tomb - Psychological Terror at it's best!
www.mansionofterror.com/props.htm


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

How much was it? I am guessing you got it on ebay.

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## frightmaster (Jun 8, 2004)

I bet it was JUST under 100.00.

If you get scared, you will like it. If I scare you, I will LOVE IT.


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## Thedarktomb (May 10, 2004)

Crazy,

Are you talking about Syrus's portrait or my pneumatic cylinder? I got my cylinder on Ebay in a 5-pack for $25.00 plus $10 shipping. That's $7.00 a cylinder after all is said and done. Do you not check your e-mail Crazy, I sent you two emails.



The Dark Tomb - Psychological Terror at it's best!
www.mansionofterror.com/props.htm


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

Sorry, as a matter of fact I don't usually check my mail unless I am expecting something. There is so much spam that it takes forever to sort out the real from the spam, never mind some of my emails get routed into the bulk folder which gets up to 20,000 files with yahoos new 100mb for everyone.

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## syrus (May 19, 2004)

Darktomb- I have to admit I came on this forum looking for answers about the changing portrait and being an artist myself I've always wanted to do a painting where the eyes follow you, and where's a better place to look for these kind of answews but here. But I'm like the rest of you I have a love for the dark side. And though I never done a haunted house myself, after reading the post in this forum I'm starting to think about doing one. It sounds like every one here has a lot of fun doing haunted houses. I hope I haven't offended anyone for looking for answers to these questions............


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## Thedarktomb (May 10, 2004)

Yes I think that's great Syrus. I was just messing with you because every once in a while a company drops an ad and then logs in under a phantom account to promote their product or dispute criticisms trying to act like a legitimate consumer. I had to give you a hard time.




The Dark Tomb - Psychological Terror at it's best!
www.mansionofterror.com/props.htm


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

Wow, this is a hot topic!

Michael Ball
HERES JOHNNY!!-The Shining


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

Look what I found. I am sure you can find a good place for this in a haunt, plus it has a light so it can be used in the dark


Michael Ball

The statement below is true.
The statement above is false.


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## Atomic Mystery Monster (Jul 29, 2003)

I think that you forgot the link, crazy...


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

Ooops, I swear it was there before I hit submit, apparently a ghost took it. Anyway here it is, if it is not here I am at a loss, Larry you may have to call the ghostbusters! http://coolstuffcheap.com/livingimage.html

Michael Ball

The statement below is true.
The statement above is false.


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2004)

Thats pretty neat Crazy... Any idea how it works?


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## madmax (Dec 28, 2003)

That looks something like the following faces made by turn a living mask facing out. Not the mask it self but the clear plastic container it comes in.


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

I am not sure how it works, although I know there must be liks out there about it. I think it is pretty creepy, and for its price its not a bad deal although I think it would be a final accent piece.

Michael Ball

The statement below is true.
The statement above is false.


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## Screamhaunt (Jan 7, 2004)

That is a very nice backlit illusion. The face is hollow in the front, but it sculpts to the rear. It is an illusion that it "appears to follow you"
If you want to learn how those effects are done, look at DoomBuggies.com
There you will learn all about the Haunted Mansion in Florida, and it will describe how to accomplish those types of props.

I learned that if you have a prop and cut the eyes out, re-set them, deeper within, but visual, they will give you the illusion that they are following you.



Screamhaunt


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

One of my favorite sites is www.howstuffworks.com but it doesnt compete with this.

Michael Ball

Check out my photo album!
http://halloweengallery.com/index.php?cat=10014


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## sprfly (Oct 19, 2002)

Here is the link that screamhaunt was referring to. Disney actually has a patent on this illusion.

-fly

Check out my props here


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

Surprise surprise. Disney probably filled up half tha patent office. It is a not a violation if you make something for personal use, it just cant be sol, right?

Michael Ball

Check out my photo album!
http://halloweengallery.com/index.php?cat=10014


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## rweso (Jul 25, 2003)

correct


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## crazymjb (Oct 27, 2003)

Good, now if it only worked that way for music Stupid RIAA

Michael Ball

Check out my photo album!
http://halloweengallery.com/index.php?cat=10014


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