# The Breathing Grave How To



## madmax

*The Breathing Grave How To (updated design pics)*

*  (edit 10-2014) Pictures on How To on page 20 

http://www.halloweenforum.com/tutor...athing-grave-how-post1693107.html#post1693107
*



(edit : March 2012) as most of you know I put up this How To so everyone that wanted to make this prop could. 

Now someone (gooffy87) on the other Halloween forum decided they would copy my design and sell a cheap knock off as their own design (plainly see that it's a copy from my how to but they use plastic as the cover that will not let the rain go through and most likely burn the motor out from the weight of rain and dirt) so I will no longer leave this how to up. 


This is the my prop

[video=youtube;/AxRteQepS0I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxRteQepS0I&list=UU8f2ZYH6xWP0IuW7Kxd96vQ&index=11&feature=plcp[/url][/video]


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## madmax

777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777


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## Val - 156

That is very cool! Thanks for the how to. I think I might be able to do this one.


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## DaveintheGrave

Great videos and thanks for the tutorial, Max!

Watching the video, it reminds me of waves moving on the ocean. Maybe some of our pirate haunters could use your mechanism for that purpose.


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## MissMandy

I need to get a divorce and marry someone who knows how to do this stuff LOL


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## magnusius

Nice effect! That would look so good in my zombie graveyard!


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## halloween71

Thank you!


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## madmax

11111111111111111111111111111111


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## Mephistopheles

FREAKING NICE! Thank You for sharing and the tutorial. For the cover One could use some camo netting found at the big sporting goods store similar to Dick's or Bass Pro. I think they may also sell a leaf type netting also. I have been wanting to build one this year. I may use your configuration inside a wrapped corpse that is laying inside a coffin without a lid.


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## Terra

Thanks so much for this. Just to get it through my thick head... you can operate this while it's raining?


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## madmax

Terra said:


> Thanks so much for this. Just to get it through my thick head... you can operate this while it's raining?



I would say it's safe to use outside as long as you keep the plug/power supply out of puddles. One other thing that I did (and do for all of my connections ..DC or AC) put hot glue in the end of the motor where the wires from the power supply connects.

This runs off 12v DC and it draws less than 1/2 amp....your car battery is 12v and puts out 30-50 amps and your cordless drill is 12 to 18 VDC and needs 2+ amps to run and we all use those in the rain and never think twice about it. One AAA battery puts out 1.5 VDC so 12v is about like using 8 AAA batteries

The end you don't want to be fooling around with too much in the rain is the 120v AC that your home uses and the power supply plugs into. Other than that I personally think it's safe.

I will use one of daveinthegraves pictures to show the inside of this motor. It's about twice the size of the motors used in Spirit Halloween Props


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## madmax

I don't recommend anyone else to do this test that I did in the below video...while I think DC current is safe to work with even in or around water I guess there's always the chance you could get shocked.

What I wanted to show was a condition of the wires being wet from rain and someone touching the naked wires with water on them and wet hands.

DO NOT GRAB BOTH NAKED WIRES (EVEN DRY) AT THE SAME TIME IF YOU ARE WORKING WITH AC...THATS 120V AC AND IT CAN KILL

This test is with 11vdc 400ma..............................NOT AC


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## Terra

Wow, I had no idea! Thanks so much for being the test subject in the video  That answered a question I've long had about low voltage items in the rain.

One last question: The motor is good operating in the rain too _(as long as you hot glue the connections)_ right?


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## madmax

I think it is because the guts of the motor is sealed. If you left it sitting in a pool of water for a long period of time it might hurt the motor but I can't see normal rain fall doing that.

I think I will take one of the motors and let it sit submerged in a pan of water for a few hours and see how the motor runs afterward. That's another good thing about this motor...cheap enough to run test on and maybe ruin a couple just to test their limits. At $3 each if doesn't hurt too much if I lose one or two testing their limits.


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## Terra

That would be great. If it's also rain resitant... *TOTAL WIN!* _<keeping fingers crossed>_


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## DaveintheGrave

Hey Max, you stole my picture! LOL  Just kidding. Anything I have you are welcome to use anytime. I decided to write up a tutorial on how I wire this motor and also how to tap the shaft for adding a crank for those that may have questions about doing that. I hope to have it posted later today.
Terra-you could just fashoin a cover for the motor, just in case it rained REALLY hard. I use these plastic tubs that the Hillshire Farms lunch meat comes in from the grocery store. Mainly, I use them for protecting plug connections in the yard, like three AC power plugs plugged into a tripler. Just mount one over your motor and leave a hole for the shaft to come thru.
I've had one of these motors get rained on before and it kept working no problem.


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## madmax

I guess the easy way to protect the motor would be like Dave said... put a cover over the motor and caulk it so no rain can get in it and it would probably last longer than if you do it like I did 

Here's the video of a little water test I did on the motor...put it in water at 12:10 with the motor running and took it out at 2:10 and it was still running and still running when I cut it off at 4:30. 

Now I'm going to let it set for a 24 to 48 hours with a damp rag over it and keep wetting the rag. Then I will plug it back in and see if the motor will still run. That should give it enough time for rust to start getting on the bearing (if it's going to rust) in the motor and cause it some problems....or maybe not but I really don't think us haunters are going to get the motor this wet using it in a prop.


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## Terra

Oooh, this is looking good so far


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## trentsketch

Interesting. I wonder if you could simulate some small critter movement by tossing them on top of the rolling grave. Like a nice stretched out snake or two. I can't use a rolling grave, but I could maybe mock it up to look like a critter hole ready to burst forth with creepy crawlies. I have to think about this some more.

Excellent prop idea.

What's the part number on the vent motor? I'm clueless. I searched "vent motor" and came up with a vent cap and then had no idea where to look on the site.


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## Mephistopheles

Your tests are great and I am impressed with what this motor is going thru and still working.
I have a suggestion. Rust needs both oxygen and water to start its oxdation process. Each element individually will not cause rust. Let the motor sit for a couple days in the air after your soak tests and then see how it operates. I have seen starter motors bind on lawn tractors and similar type equipment after being soaked from rain and then sit for a week or two with out being used. I honestly feel that this will not be a problem for this motor due the way the motor it self is sealed. This looks like one rugged little motor.


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## madmax

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=5-1587&catname=electric


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## trentsketch

Awesome. Thanks, madmax.


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## madmax

After being under water for a few hours then kept wet for a few days and letting air get to it by removing the electrical connection at the end this motor....





Still ran just like it did the first time I hooked it up


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## Mephistopheles

Nice! Thanx MadMax for all your dilligent testing. This is one tough motor.
I ordered four of the motors today.


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## XFEARIENCE

Hi and thank you for your love of the industry and your professionlism I am really excited about this prop you have created and wanted to see if you got the private message i sent you Sir . Thank you and talk to you soon . And keep up the phenominal work


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## Terra

Darn, I had missed the update. That is good news indeed! Thanks so much for testing this. A cheap waterproof motor... thought this was only in my dreams


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## billman

Ok, I just checked the shipping on 1 motor...$11.20 ??? that is insane! so, the total cost would be $14.19. I hate those teasers on price that look so cheap then they stick it to you with the shipping.

well, priority mail is a little cheaper $7.45 so total = $10.44 a little better

I wonder if you can find these even cheaper at the junkyard? Are the outdoor reindeer motors the same thing?


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## Screaming Demons

billman said:


> Ok, I just checked the shipping on 1 motor...$11.20 ??? that is insane! so, the total cost would be $14.19. I hate those teasers on price that look so cheap then they stick it to you with the shipping.
> 
> well, priority mail is a little cheaper $7.45 so total = $10.44 a little better


This has been brought up before. It's just one of those things in business. Because of the minimum costs from any of the delivery services and the effort of packing an order, it really isn't cost-effective for a company to sell a single $3 item. Might not seem fair but I sell a lot on eBay and that's just the way it is.

I ordered a dozen of these a while back and think I paid only a little more than they quoted you for just one. You probably don't need 12, but that makes the order worthwhile for the company. And the weight for 12 wasn't that much more than for one since the box makes up a large part of the weight on a single unit.


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## billman

Actually, Ebay does not like it when you inflate shipping and handling. They used to shut down your listing if they suspected inflated prices. Now, they are charging you for both your sell price and your shipping to get rid of people who have been inflating their shipping and handling. 

It would look better if they put a normal price for 1 motor purchase and have a legitimate shipping price. Then, give a discount for multiple orders with combined shipping.

The teaser up front hit with high shipping and handling after is just bad business.


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## Screaming Demons

But that's there business model. It's a surplus dealer - they list the quantities of an item available there on each page. They want to sell in larger quantities and probably don't really care about single-item sales.


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## billman

Well, I could go for a multiple order. I looked up buying 10 and the shipping goes up to $17. So, only like $6 more bucks. That's cool.

Most other sites/catalogs I have seen will show you a retail price. Next to that Price they will have a discount price for multiple orders. Upfront from the beginning is what I like..to each his own I guess.


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## Mephistopheles

I purchase 4 motors shipped them USPS Proirity Mail cost me $10.60 for shipping. Had the motors within 48 hours. So it cost me $5.64 per motor. Still a deal I think!

I know shipping costs can hurt. I once needed $3.50 pump strainer for my boat. This part was manufactured in the same town I moored the boat in in MA. I had to order the part from SC. I got hosed on the shipping it was around twelve bucks! Glad I don't own boats any more!
I'll stick to haunting!!!


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## aelfric5578

This is a rookie question. Would it be possible to run this off a battery? I run a yearly haunt in a nature preserve and there's really no good way to get power to most of the trail.


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## Screaming Demons

It's 12 volt and that is a pretty common battery size. Besides the obvious automotive/truck/tractor batteries, many computer battery backups (Uninterruptable Power Supplies) also are 12 volt. These have the advantage of being a lot smaller and therefore much easier to lug around.


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## Nepboard

yep you sure can plus they draw very little.


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## DaveintheGrave

aelfric5578 said:


> This is a rookie question. Would it be possible to run this off a battery? I run a yearly haunt in a nature preserve and there's really no good way to get power to most of the trail.


aelfric, I think it was member IndianaHolmes that made a prop and used a regular 9 volt battery to power this same motor.
I tried it and it works great. Also the motor still had quite a bit of torque to it.

He also stated that the battery lasted a surprisingly long time.


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## XFEARIENCE

*Awesome Vendor*

Let me just say that Mad Max is a Truly Honest First Class Top Notch Great Communicator and nice to work with . You will not be disapointed . Thanks for Caring and Sharing


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## Kustomnut

I bet a barbeque rotisserie motor would work great for this...


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## Predator35

This is a great tutorial.Thank you for adding the links for the motor.

Daren


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## Zombiegirl1

Holy smokes that is freakin amazing!!!!! Are u gonna add any sound to it? It is still amazing even w/out it. Lov that idea!!!!


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## madmax

000000000000000000000000000


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## Mephistopheles

Madmax do you have source for the burlap or would any fabric store sell it? Thanx


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## Spookilicious mama

*LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE LOVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVE This prop!! I am so gettin hubby to make me one of these.  Maybe two!!*


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## madmax

Mephistopheles said:


> Madmax do you have source for the burlap or would any fabric store sell it? Thanx




I got lucky and found a huge roll of it at a yard sale but any fabric store should sell it and I know you can get rolls of it on Ebay.


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## Mephistopheles

Thanx, Madmax


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## pandora

I bet you could use landscaping fabric from Home Depot or Lowe's too. Might be cheaper than the fabric stores...


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## madmax

I thought about landscaping fabric (was just checking it out at Lowes ...30 mins ago) but its a little stiffer than the burlap and instead of a upward movement in the center of the prop. The whole cover will probably move.

The really thin type might work but I don't know if it would hold up. I guest I need to build a couple more test units and try both for 30 hours to see how they hold up. (If I do that would be 2 more used units I will be letting go)


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## Glass 'eye'

Awesome...cant wait to get to work, great job!


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## Raven's Hollow Cemetery

Great idea and tutorial Mad Max! Thanks for sharing


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## TWISTEDUK

Such a cool idea, and great tutorial too boot


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## Halloween Scream

Wow. Sold. I will definitely put this on 2012's wish list (far too many projects already for this year). Great work!


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## brkf

Sadly the surplus center was out of this motor (backordered). I did find it on amazon for 200% more.


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## Raven's Hollow Cemetery

Ouch, I've already used all, or have plans for the 5 new ones I bought. But, I need more! :/


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## madmax

Luckily I bought 20 of the motors last week but that's no where close to the amount I need. They still had 108 when I got the 20 motors and I started to get 100 of them but I put it off because I was going out of town....now I wish I had 

The 20 motors won"t last very long, I will probably be out before the end of this week....used 30 in the past two weeks and counting the 20 I just got will make 50 Breathing Grave props I made in 3 1/2 weeks.


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## brkf

madmax said:


> Luckily I bought 20 of the motors last week but that's no where close to the amount I need. They still had 108 when I got the 20 motors and I started to get 100 of them but I put it off because I was going out of town....now I wish I had
> 
> The 20 motors won"t last very long, I will probably be out before the end of this week....used 30 in the past two weeks and counting the 20 I just got will make 50 Breathing Grave props I made in 3 1/2 weeks.


Sucked it up and just bought the Amazon ones. More expensive but I want to get the project completed. Dilly dallying over $4 isn't gonna work for me.


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## madmax

I just got off the phone with the surplus center and they WON'T be getting any more of the motors in. Someone bought the last 108 and 42 others that they found in stock.

I wonder if it's a HF member or a prop builder/seller?


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## Screaming Demons

I'm sure they have other uses - automotive vents, perhaps? I could also see them being used in Christmas and robotic projects.

While doing a search for similar units it occured to me that I have probably already come across them, but with the motor removed and the extra or useless mechanism around it discarded.


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## Raven's Hollow Cemetery

Screaming Demons said:


> I'm sure they have other uses - automotive vents, perhaps? I could also see them being used in Christmas and robotic projects.
> 
> While doing a search for similar units it occured to me that I have probably already come across them, but with the motor removed and the extra or useless mechanism around it discarded.



They were used in Chrysler Motors vehicles A/C systems actually, and the only ones left were surplus from production runs of Sebrings/Concordes/Intrepid's which have been EOL for a while now. You could probably source some from automotive salvage yards cheaply. But, don't expect it to be along the same pricing lines as Surplus Center had them at. In automotive parts stores, they go for about $30 new, to as high as $40 dependent on where they are purchased from. Maybe someone has a warehouse full of them somewhere, but I wouldn't hold my breath.




madmax said:


> I just got off the phone with the surplus center and they WON'T be getting any more of the motors in. Someone bought the last 108 and 42 others that they found in stock.
> 
> I wonder if it's a HF member or a prop builder/seller?


That sucks! I figured supply would be dwindling soon, I was just hoping for another year or two they would still be available. Looks like existing stock through the last couple of surplus Co.'s is it.


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## alucard

I think I just found my new prop for this year!


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## Hallomarine

max - I asked my wife (who is very crafty in her own right) to watch your video. She thought it was a great idea, and suggested to use window screen instead of cloth. It would be a little stiffer, which would help with the breathing effect, as well as help with "sloping" the box edges. She also suggested that it would be easier to cover with 
your choice of media to make it look grave like. Her suggestions for the media are spray adhesive, (some stay flexible) dirt, or painted dryer lint, and leaves. My suggestions? I got nothin'!  HM


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## madmax

H





http://youtu.be/c37mbkNvNDw


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## DaveintheGrave

Wow! It looks even better in daylight, Max!
I might have to make one of those after all. Looks fantastic!


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## madmax

Dave you better use the motors you got from http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G16034 wisely....They're OUT!

Something fishy is going on with these motors someone is buying up EVERY ONE OF THEM. I contacted Electronic Goldmine yesterday about getting a price for a group buy (wanted their sale price) and the lady told me they had 1200ish in stock. Could be less could be more but close to that number.

I sent sales a e-mail and asked what kind of a price could we get if as a group we bought 200 (I wanted 100 myself), 500, or their whole stock. I also used the sale pitch that most people would also buy their power supply to run the motor.

This morning I got a e-mail from Electronic Goldmine, ...THEY ARE OUT, they sold the last of them yesterday. Every time we post a link to the vent motor someone is buying the whole stock. I have one more supplier for the vent motor. The link is.....

Not this time


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## Raven's Hollow Cemetery

madmax said:


> This morning I got a e-mail from Electronic Goldmine, ...THEY ARE OUT, they sold the last of them yesterday. Every time we post a link to the vent motor someone is buying the whole stock. I have one more supplier for the vent motor. The link is.....
> 
> Not this time



Hold on to that link tightly. I think I know who you're referring to (just ordered 10 more myself yesterday), and I'm still a little miffed at having to pay double the cost that Surplus Center had them at. Btw, I think I know who is buying them up. They are selling props on ebay using them for power. Personally, I think they are to slow for an FCG. But hey, i think a 6 rpm motor is a little slow for them too.


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## madmax

I think I found a SAFE to use outside in the rain electric motor that will also work for the Breathing Grave and it cost $2 more than the $8 vent motor...which is about the same considering you don't need a power supply with it.

I'm testing it now...20 hours of contentious running after 28 more I will start using this motor.


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## DaveintheGrave

madmax said:


> Dave you better use the motors you got from http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G16034 wisely....They're OUT!
> 
> Something fishy is going on with these motors someone is buying up EVERY ONE OF THEM.


I think I'm going to cry.........

Must be another government conspiracy!

Actually, I ordered 12 and they sent me 1200. Shhh......

(By the way, "Group Buy" is a four letter word around here lately!) LOL


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## dmorton319

*Still available...*

I just ordered (9/2/11) the vent motor #37244P1 ($7.95) and a 12VDC 2A power supply #40812P1 ($7.95) from American Science and Surplus, http://www.sciplus.com, $10 minimum order, thats why I ordered both. Total cost including shipping $22.85. 

Dustin


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## madmax

000000000000000000000000000


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## Halloween Snob

Has anyone bought the authentic breathing grave? I say we group buy it and let max reverse engineer it! I have seen that go for as high as $600! I am so curious what it looks like under there.
Max, what is the new motor you have found? I am very interested to try to duplicate what you have built. I appreciate you sharing yoru tuturial even though you sell these. I guess the DIY market is only so big right?


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## DaveintheGrave

Looks great, Max! Hard to tell how much it actually moves under the low light.

I like BOTH versions!


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## madmax

Here's a daytime vid and I still have some kinks to work out on the movement but once I do I will post a video of the guts. The motors are the same as the deer motors without the cover and right now you have to spot weld a connector on it.


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## Deadview

So, I need info on the connection of the power supply to the vent motor, can you assist, I want to do it correctly. Thanks.


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## madmax

000000000000000000000


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## DaveintheGrave

Deadview, here's how I do it:

http://www.halloweenforum.com/tutorials-step-step/105127-black-vent-motor-tutorial-part-1-a.html


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## Halloweenie1

*TOO Neat! Wow! ...thanks for sharing!*


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## Halloween Snob

Max, any chance this might get posted today? I would like to place an order for the new motor (where did you get it) and build your new design. Thanks so much for your help. I could not afford to pay $500+ for the rea breathing grave. I don't know how they get awat with chargng that much. i would love to see what is under there for that money. You have created the same effect!


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## madmax

0000000000000000


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## Raven's Hollow Cemetery

Cool! Let us know how they work out Max. I only have 4 of the other vent motors left, and more projects that need "motor"vation


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## Halloween Snob

Can someone please PM me and tell me where I can order 2 vent motors online? let's keep these sources to PM's in case there is a sinister plot out there to gobble up the cheap motors.

Mad Max, how are you so sure about the design of the original breathing grave? Do you own one? That is amazing they can get away with charing $600 for such a simple design that apparently is not even water resistant!


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## madmax

0000000000000000000000000000


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## madmax

00000000000000000000000000000


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## Predator35

Hello,

Will these motors work for a flying crank ghost?What type of more they or what is the ebay link?

Thank you, Daren


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## box1031

Predator, these motors work for a flying crank ghost. As long as the ghost is not too heavy. Search ebay 16163982 or black vent motor for scrapperpuppy account. Look at my box1031 photo album for my flying crank ghost rig made from pvc. You have to grind or cut a metal tab from the motor shaft for continuous rotation. These motors are basically slow servos. Thanks, box1031


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## MonsterBoss

Wonderful! It looks super creepy at night!


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## Deadview

I'm making my breathing grave my question is how do you keep the threaded rod inside the rotating vent motor as the rod and motor spin? The inside of the spinning vent motor are cut with groves going from outside to inside straight in but you have the thread on the rod, help me out here? Thanks.


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## DaveintheGrave

I use a 1/2 inch long, 1/4-20 screw to "tap" threads into the vent motor shaft. Just use a screwdriver and basically force the screw to turn into the hole. (Hold the outside of the vent motor shaft with some pliers.) Then take out the screw and replace it with the threaded rod.


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## Deadview

*Threading*

Thanks for the info. Dave I wondered about that. I was almost tempted to use the rod and try to slowly screw it into the opening holding the shaft because the inside of the opening was soft. Now I can finish my two graves and move onto my ground breaking casket which will open by motor and Skelly will peek out !


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## beebs

Spectacular!!!


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## madmax

UPDATE as most of you know I put up this How To so everyone that wanted to make this prop could. I also sell this prop to forum members that can't or don't want to make their own. I also sell it on Ebay. All together I sold over 140 of the breathing grave prop with a zero return rate and a 100% feed back on ebay.

Now someone (gooffy87) on the other Halloween forum decided they would copy my design and sell a cheap knock off so I will no longer leave this how to up. I don't make a ton of money on this prop but it does help cover some of my Halloween expenses.

If any forum members still want to build the prop you can PM me and I will help you but NO new members. I think most of us that's been around this forum for at least a year or so respect each others work enough not to try and past it off as their own. I'm not a builder but a HAUNTER that just trying to cut down cost on a expensive Hobby. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxRteQepS0I&list=UU8f2ZYH6xWP0IuW7Kxd96vQ&index=11&feature=plcp


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## Schattenmann

Nevermind, got it.


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## jpbaily1

Way KOOL!!!!


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## DannyK

MissMandy said:


> I need to get a divorce and marry someone who knows how to do this stuff LOL


that is totally messed up...just sayin'

dK


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## SpringChicken

This is an amazing prop. I picked up all my supplies and I will attempt to build one (or two) tonight! I found some camouflage burlap in the sporting goods department at Walmart that should save time on the painting. And it's large enough to make at least two of them out of it (54" x 12'). Thanks for the tutorial!


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## hotrod138

What kind of vent motor?
Can you post an example with a link please.


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## madmax

0000000000000000000000000


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## halbaradtj

Mad thanks to madmax on this tutorial. We put one of these together for our display this year based mainly on the tutorial and the two drawers we found someone put out for the trash. We got lots of good comments on how cool this was in our display.

Funny story though. When we were adjusting the rollers we started out with four of them then took one away. We threw a sheet over the prop to see how it looked when it ran. Well, the bottom roller was a little too low on the "body"; somewhere south of where the waist would have been. When we turned the device on the words from that Huey Lewis song about "waking up under a tent" went though our heads. We ended up with only two rollers.


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## Raven's Hollow Cemetery

^ LoL! My black cat killed mine right before the ToT's started to show up. He took a nap on the landscape fabric I used and stalled the motor. Hopefully it only killed the wall wart I was using for power, being that mine used the old TRW vent motor that are now impossible to come by. 

Edit/ No such luck. Seems that the brushes, winding's, or commutator burned up in the motor.


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## Demon Dog

Thanks for the tutorial, madmax. I made one for Halloween and the ToTs loved it. I had it side lit with ground fog rolling over it so that the motion was easily noticed. A neighbor girl had me show her how it worked when I was putting it away after Halloween. Sweet prop idea and not difficult to make (which is also sweet)!


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## Mistress of the Abyss

WAY KEWL!!! To think I was just gonna see if someone posted a how to on this. Ohhhh hubby!!!!


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## LittleBlueBMW

Loved mine... now if only my fog would roll over it like Demon Dog's


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## madmax

0000000000000000000000


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## Daddy-O

I made this for Halloween this past year and it was a huge hit! I used burlap dyed dark brown for the cover and then threw potting soil over the top of it. It came out awesome. Thanks for the how-to on this. This completely blew away the thrashing hangman that took me a month of weekends to finish. This was the biggest hit of my yard, and easy, too!!


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## DannyK

I agree with Daddy-o...I made two of these and shaped them like toe pincher coffins...covered them with burlap and leaves and placed them at the curves of the path with some dim lighting...definately a huge hit. I'm thinking of replacing the burlap with some thin neoprene from joanns for next year and painting it to look like the top of the toe pincher....

Again, Thanks for this tut!!

dK


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## Crematory

Oh wow, so cool! I never would have thought of this by myself. Thanks for all the pics. About how long did it take you? Looks pretty complicated.


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## catmanclay

how long are the pieces of pvc pipe


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## madmax

0000000000000000000


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## madmax

UPDATE as most of you know I put up this How To so everyone that wanted to make this prop could. I also sell this prop to forum members that can't or don't want to make their own. I also sell it on Ebay. All together I sold over 140 of the breathing grave prop with a zero return rate and a 100% feed back on ebay.

Now someone (gooffy87) on the other Halloween forum decided they would copy my design and sell a cheap knock off so I will no longer leave this how to up. I don't make a ton of money on this prop but it does help cover some of my Halloween expenses.

If any forum members still want to build the prop you can PM me and I will help you but NO new members. I think most of us that's been around this forum for at least a year or so respect each others work enough not to try and past it off as their own. I'm not a builder but a HAUNTER that just trying to cut down cost on a expensive Hobby. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxRteQepS0I&list=UU8f2ZYH6xWP0IuW7Kxd96vQ&index=11&feature=plcp


----------



## Halloween Snob

Max, where can I find a connector that fits into this motor you recommended?

Thanks in advance!


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## Raven's Hollow Cemetery

Montco Haunt said:


> Max, where can I find a connector that fits into this motor you recommended?
> 
> Thanks in advance!



You can find the connector in many early to mid 2000's model Chrysler Corp cars, like the Dodge Intrepid or Chrysler Concorde. It's much easier to just open up the motor, ditch the spring contacts, and solder directly to the motor terminals inside.


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## Halloween Snob

So you have that same motor? I saw that there were several clips that would allow the motor to be opened. I was hesitant to unclip them though as they seemed clamped on pretty tight and I was afraid to break them by prying them open. If it is that easy, I will attempt to pry open and so as instructed.


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## Raven's Hollow Cemetery

You could say that, I have about 14 of them actually.  Don't worry, the casing is made of FRP (Fiberglass Reinforced Plastic). It's pretty durable as long as you don't go crazy with prying on the lock tabs. Just insert a flathead screwdriver under each tab (a door panel clip tool, or small prybar works exceptionally well too), and push the tab slightly over the lock. Hold it so it doesn't slip back in, and then do the same to the next. It's a little bit of a pain until you get the hang of it, after you figure out the trick for opening them, it's a pretty quick operation from there on out.


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## DaveintheGrave

Yea, I've opened up probably 15 or more of those motors and never broke any of the clips.
One tip: Hold it shaft side DOWN and pull off the BACK of the motor casing. If you pull the front off, the gears can fall out.


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## Raven's Hollow Cemetery

Good point Dave, I tend to overlook the fact that many people haven't played with motors or gearboxes before  Another tip for prop usage is: to make certain that the output shaft rotates counterclockwise so that the bolt is constantly torqued down, instead of clockwise rotation where it will eventually loosen the bolt if you don't use a thread locking compound of sorts (CA glue is great for thread locking duty).


----------



## madmax

UPDATE as most of you know I put up this How To so everyone that wanted to make this prop could. 

Now someone (gooffy87) on the other Halloween forum decided they would copy my design and sell a cheaply built knock off as their own design (plainly see that it's a copy from my how to but they use plastic as the cover that will not let the rain go through and most likely burn the motor out from the weight of rain and dirt) http://www.ebay.com/itm/Halloween-B...274?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41631c354a) so I will no longer leave this how to up. 

If any forum members still want to build the prop you can PM me and I will help you but NO new members. I think most of us that's been around this forum for at least a year or so respect each others work enough not to try and past it off as their own then try to sell it. 

I'm not a builder that sells props but a HAUNTER that just trying to cut down cost on a expensive Hobby so I sell the Breathing Grave to forum members that can't or don't want to build their own. So if anyone on the forum buys a prop from the ebay link I posted......IT ISN'T THE PROP THAT I MAKE IT LOOKS CHEAPLY BUILT and it has NO RETURNS 

My prop will look like the one in the video below with a lower profile and it's 24 x 36 x 3.75 and way better built and I guarantee my prop to forum members through Halloween 2012......

I REPEAT THE PROP IN THIS LINK ISN'T MINE http://www.ebay.com/itm/Halloween-B...274?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41631c354a


This is the look of my prop

[video=youtube;/AxRteQepS0I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxRteQepS0I&list=UU8f2ZYH6xWP0IuW7Kxd96vQ&index=11&feature=plcp[/url][/video]


----------



## Halloween Snob

Thanks guys. I figured it out. I used a small flat head and held it then worked the rest the same way. I had some difficulty soldering to the connectors but got it eventually. My soldering skills are rusty. I did also try what you suggested max as I too saw there were holes the wire could be tied to. When the lid is shut though it pushes down on the wire and could possibly sever it. I think the ideal situation is a connector but if not to solder. I am finished the project and it was an easy and enjoyable build. I may make another before the night of nights. Thnx to max for the idea and help.


----------



## madmax

UPDATE as most of you know I put up this How To so everyone that wanted to make this prop could. 

Now someone (gooffy87) on the other Halloween forum decided they would copy my design and sell a cheap knock off as their own design (plainly see that it's a copy from my how to but they use plastic as the cover that will not let the rain go through and most likely burn the motor out from the weight of rain and dirt) http://www.ebay.com/itm/Halloween-B...274?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41631c354a) so I will no longer leave this how to up. 

If any forum members still want to build the prop you can PM me and I will help you but NO new members. I think most of us that's been around this forum for at least a year or so respect each others work enough not to try and past it off as their own then try to sell it. 

I'm not a builder that sells props but a HAUNTER that just trying to cut down cost on a expensive Hobby so I sell the Breathing Grave to forum members that can't or don't want to build their own. So if anyone on the forum buys a prop from the ebay link I posted......IT ISN'T THE PROP THAT I MAKE IT LOOKS CHEAPLY BUILT and it has NO RETURNS 

My prop will look like the one in the video below with a lower profile and it's 24 x 36 x 3.75 and way better built and I guarantee my prop to forum members through Halloween 2012......

I REPEAT THE PROP IN THIS LINK ISN'T MINE http://www.ebay.com/itm/Halloween-B...274?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41631c354a


This is the look of my prop

[video=youtube;/AxRteQepS0I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxRteQepS0I&list=UU8f2ZYH6xWP0IuW7Kxd96vQ&index=11&feature=plcp[/url][/video]


----------



## doto

madmax,

I completely understand your frustration. Last week end osenator and I went out in search of motors so we could each build one for our respective haunts. We didn't find them but will continue to scour the local surplus stores and perhaps a junk yard or two. I think I have your design memorized but I may contact you in the future for a few tips. Thank you for offering to help out once the tutorial is removed.


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## Raven's Hollow Cemetery

Wow MadMax, that is shameful. It's bad enough when companies are ripping off home haunters ideas, and then something like this happens... :/

A person sharing for everyone's benefit, getting screwed, really gets my goat.  I don't blame you a bit for taking it down. It is very good of you continuing to offer to your help privately in lieu of leaving the tutorial in place. You sir, are awesome.


----------



## DaveintheGrave

doto said:


> madmax,
> 
> I completely understand your frustration. Last week end osenator and I went out in search of motors so we could each build one for our respective haunts. We didn't find them but will continue to scour the local surplus stores and perhaps a junk yard or two. I think I have your design memorized but I may contact you in the future for a few tips. Thank you for offering to help out once the tutorial is removed.


I saw recently Electronic goldmine had more of the old style vent motor in stock and on sale.
If you guys can't order them, I'd be glad to ship a couple to Canada for you.

I don't blame you at all, Max. If he's really building a cheap knock-off, I bet the prop won't hold up very well.


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## riddlebox

I was gonna make this this year  I guess I wont be able to now as I am new .... this is extremely dissapointing I really loved this idea


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## doto

Hey Dave,

I really appreciate the information and the offer. They ship to Canada so I just ordered two. 

Here's the link in case anyone else wants to order them.

http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G16034


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## madmax

After thinking on this I will be putting the how to back up in a few days...like a idiot I deleted everything without saving this to my PC first. Right now I'm too busy to redo it...traveling for conference tourneys in college basketball. I should have known someone would copy it but I honestly didn't think another haunter would. Honestly I still wouldn't have minded that if it was well made and if this person didn't try to take credit for the design when I asked him about it.

What got to me was a couple members emailed and said they saw MY breathing grave on ebay and asked if I thought it would hold up because it looked a lot "cheaper made" than the one I posted on this forum. So I went to the link http://www.ebay.com/itm/280835667274?_trksid=p5197.c0.m619 and checked it out and couldn't believe someone would actually try to sell this and it made me mad that by naming it the "Breathing Grave" people were confusing the one I sell with this cheap knock off.

The worse thing that can happen if you try and sell props is to be known for bad customer service and selling cheap inferior props that don't live up to expectations. So I didn't want people to get this confuse with me. I asked the person if he would just change the name of the prop and he said "He designed it and named it and didn't use my how to.

Like I said I built over 140 of the Breathing Grave props and not one return and I have a test prop out in my backyard since last July and it's on a timer to run 8 hours EVERY DAY and it's still working as good as the day I built it. The only problems I ever had in the 140 props was 1 faulty motor and one power supply that went bad. Both were a few months are I sold the props and well into Oct both members of this forum and I sent them both the inter workings of the prop so they could just switch it out.

I use burlap for the cover after trying a number of different covers during testing. The burlap lets water/rain go through and not stay on the cover and that's VERY IMPORTANT. If water set on the cover it would make the weight too much for this motor to lift and probably burn it out. One other advantage with the burlap is it has some give to it so it won"t wear out easily from the cams lifting it in the same spot and it doesn't sag into the grave and leave a large dip like the plastic used on the knock off on ebay that the guy doesn't even connect to the box.

Here's a picture of the knock off breathing grave and notice the way the plastic sags into the box/frame plastic will not work on this prop over a long period of time...I tried it on my test props because it's cheap and everyone can get it. It will collect rain and unless you want to pick up the prop and dump it it will push the plastic down into the frame overtime and the cams will start to catch the folds or the rain will pile up and be too much for the motor. You can not attach the plastic to the box/frame like you can the burlap because when the cams lifts it over time it will rip the plastic....I guess thats why this person has a NO RETURN policy. Here's the knock off and it's only a 12x24 and the height looks to be at least 6 inches...my prop is 20 x 36 x 3.75 (lower profile)

















Anyways it made me mad so I deleted the how to and after thinking about it I came to the collision it wasn't fair to others who might want to make this simple and cheap but well built  prop. Sharing and people helping each other is what keeps these forums going and honestly I would rather help someone build a prop than sell them one. So I will get this How To put back up later this week or the first of next week...before the NCAA Tourney starts.

Also I'm working on two other props that use the vent motors and should be fairly simple to build both will cost a little more to build than the Breathing Grave but still the building cost should be under $50 dollars or close to it .

One is a free standing Scarecrow prop that stands on a 8 foot pole with the head almost 10 feet from the ground. When activated the head lowers to look down at the Tots and goes from side to side. Also the pole and frame(2 inch PVC) that Scarecrow stands on becomes a fog chiller and the scarecrow will spew chilled fog out of his mouth down towards the ground as his head lowers and goes from side to side.

The other prop will be a knock off of the Breathing Grave but a lot different I still have a few issues with both props but once I get them worked out and run each through enough testing that I know they will hold up I will post the How To.

Like the Breathing Grave both of the new props will be Simple to make (Scarecrow might be a little more difficult but still pretty simple) affordable to make and most important DURABLE and SAFE.


----------



## wrasse

I am so glad that you decided to put the how to back up. I was looking forward to building the prop this year. I greatly appreciate your efforts to help us.


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## DaveintheGrave

Looks like that other seller made his video "Private" so we can't see it any more. LOL
I can understand someone else wanting to build the prop and make a few bucks, but he should have the decency to admit it is your design, Max.
Better watch out, he might steal your other ideas before you can finish building them! LOL

(I guess I'll scrap my plans of making and selling "Dave's Hyper-ventilating Grave".....) 

Thanks for putting your tut back up. I plan to make one before next Halloween.

Note: I just watched his video on E-bay and to me it looks more like a "Viagra Induced Grave" than a "Breathing Grave".


----------



## DaveintheGrave

doto said:


> Hey Dave,
> 
> I really appreciate the information and the offer. They ship to Canada so I just ordered two.


Sure, no problem. Keep me in mind if you need any in the future.


----------



## catmanclay

that other guy is a butt head for stealing your design yours is way better i plan on building yours for my yard this halloween .please put your tut back up as i need it to help me build your design thanks a lot for the help you have givin me all ready . happy haunting !


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## catmanclay

sounds great . you are very talented.


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## Halstaff

Thanks Max for reconsidering and putting the tutorial back up. It's such a great prop and I know 2 of the haunt groups I belong to were hoping to build them this year.
We really appreciate all your work and your willingness to share it.


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## Demon Dog

Hi madmax. Sorry to hear that someone is selling a cheap version of your very original prop idea, and also even claiming to take credit for creating the concept. That would make me angry also. But you are right that this and other forums inspire creativity and help make Halloween fun, so I personally think you're going down the best path in putting the tutorial back and commend you for doing so. When I made your breathing grave prop last season, lots of kids were very excited to see it and often asked "How did you _do _that?". Unfortunately there will always be some buttheads (hopefully a minority) that will be rude and do this kind of rip-off thing.


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## madmax

Just got back from New Orleans and watching the NCAA Final 4 last Saturday and the Championship this past Monday and finally have the time to put this How To back up and updated.

Breathing Grave part List

Vent Motor 
wood 11ft 1x4
power supply 12VDC 300mA
burlap 1 Yard
paint, 1 spray can or latex house paint
threaded rod 22inch (I use 1/4)
nuts 6
lock washers 6
screws 15
Cams (2) I use 1/2 PVC with a cap










(This is the size i use, you can make it smaller or larger)
Saw your wood into 5 pieces
Two 34 inch
Two 20 inch
One 19 inch 

Then screw the wood together and it will look like this (ends 20inch, cross piece 19 inch, length 34 inch)









Cut 2 pieces of PVC..(1) 3 inches and (1) 2 inches

Take the 2 PVC caps (1/2 inch caps)and sand the top smooth. Not "flat" but 'SMOOTH" so the raised letters on the end of the cap don't stand out









Take the two pieces of PVC and heat the ends for a few seconds so it softens and can be smashed flat. You can do that over a open flame (lighter/gas stove) or you stick the end into boiling water. 









It doesn't take long, just a few seconds (5-10), before the PVC is soft. Next squeeze the end till it's flat (maybe 1 inch of the PVC) ( look at the pictures) put cold water over them to set










Now take the 2 pieces and drill a hole in the end that you flatten. Next cut or grind the sharp edges off and sand the end (look at the pictures) if you leave it without doing this step the edge will catch the cover and snag on it or wear it out


----------



## madmax

Next take the threaded rod and 4 nuts and lock washers and connect the two cams on the rod and tighten. By flatten the PVC like in the above pictures it makes the PVC easier to get really tight. Where you place the cams will be up to you. I usually put on 8 inches from the motor and the other (smaller) at the end of the threaded rod




























Next connect the threaded rod to the motor with 2 nuts and 2 washers ...one set on each side of the motor










Next step is to drill a couple holes in your box.
1. will be to run the power cord
2. will be to mount the motor 

I didn't take any pictures of this but you can see the 3/4 inch hole ( go about 2/3 deep in the wood) in this picture and the 1/4 hole goes close to the end (really doesn't matter where)on the board the motor mounts on 










Mount the motor to the end the nut on the end of the motor will go in the spot where you drilled the 3/4 inch hole...(I will get better pictures) and use 3 screws to mount the motor. I put a level on the threaded rod and adjust the motor up and down before putting screws in it



















I paint everything black (actually I usually pre-paint everything before putting it together or cutting the wood)

here's a not so clear picture of the power supply connected to the motor..use wire nuts and I hot glue all connections so no water can get to it.



















CLICK PIC FOR VIDEO





That's it for now.

HERE IS THE LINK TO THE HOW TO ON GETTING THE MOTOR READY FOR THE PROP.

http://www.halloweenforum.com/tutor...t-motor-link-where-you-can-get-motor-how.html


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## doto

Thanks again Max. I was able to get the motor and framework finished and running yesterday. It's a little different but it's all a result of your great work giving us some direction. I will add a photo of the progress to my post shortly. 

For some strange reason my wife thinks that Good Friday should have been about Easter and not Halloween. Tomorrow I think I will get the kids to search for leaves for the finishing touches on the burlap instead of eggs. Whomever finds the best leaves can have the eggs.


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## catmanclay

the motor you are using here is different than the original one you were using. the shaft in the original for the threaded rod did not go all the way thru.


----------



## madmax

catmanclay said:


> the motor you are using here is different than the original one you were using. the shaft in the original for the threaded rod did not go all the way thru.



You can use either motor there's a how to by daveinthegrave on the other vent motor (I call it the old vent motor).
I like the new vent motor I use because I think it's better (basically the same motor and gears) because it allows you to use a shaft that tightens to the motor instead of threading into plastic grooves like in the old vent motor.

Here's the link to the how to on the motor I now use . 
http://www.halloweenforum.com/tutor...t-motor-link-where-you-can-get-motor-how.html


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## Daddy-O

Nice to see you put the tutorial back up. This is just too cool and looks awesome when running! Here is a picture of mine I made last year. It was a big hit! I only used one cam instead of two because originaly I wanted it to be a heartbeat, but the motor was too slow for that.









Again, great job on this and thanks for sharing it with us!


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## Screaming Demons

Daddy-O: How about if you put another cam on the shaft 180 degrees from the other? That would cause it to rise twice on every revolution of the motor. Still might be a little slow.


----------



## Daddy-O

I tried that, too. And at 90 and 45. The motor was just slow to make it look believable. 90 degrees was the best looking, but wasn't fast enough to look like a heart beat.


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## madmax

The Breathing Grave is one year old on the 6th of July and since that day I been running test on the prop to see how durable it is. I put it out side on July 7th and it's been running at least 8 hours each day since then. The first week or so I ran it up to 72 hours at a time. So over 3,000 hours of use.

Here's a video of the prop when I set it outside July 7th 2011 and on July 4th 2012 As you can see it's took some abuse but it's still working just the same as the day I put it outside







The burlap cover wore through about 2 months ago. I was out of town for a few days a big limb fell from a tree during a storm and put pressure in that spot during the 3 days I was gone. Also the Burlap was BLACK when I set it out in July 2011 so burlap fades.











Went I raised it up to take the video I saw all the grass wrapped around the rod up to the motor. I guess that's where the grass grew too high


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## jpbaily1

This is just so darn kool.


----------



## jdomabyl

Hi All,

What about using a Christmas Deer motor? Do you think that would work? Just wondering because I have a dozen or so of those laying aroung. Maybe not enough Torque.

Thanks and it looks awesome.


----------



## Screaming Demons

jdomabyl said:


> Hi All,
> 
> What about using a Christmas Deer motor? Do you think that would work? Just wondering because I have a dozen or so of those laying aroung. Maybe not enough Torque.


A deer motor won't work because they reverse themselves when they meet a little resistance. They work great for things like nodding heads, but not for something like this.


----------



## cbhaunt

I have about 20 of these I purchased this year... I like having stock. What do you solder to the motor, just any two wires or do you solder the power source to the motor?


----------



## DaveintheGrave

cbhaunt--You could do it either way. I normally just solder about 6 inches of wire to the motor, because it may be months later before I add the AC/DC adapter to it. But if you're ready to solder your wall wart on, I'd say go ahead and do it. If the wire is too thick to exit the motor where the gold pins used to be, you may have to drill a hole in the motor casing for them to exit.


----------



## cbhaunt

Thx DitG, Im actualy not ready for the wallwart yet (not sure which to use), so just putting wires in is best if I want to do it over next day or two. I have a broken extension cord that Ive cutt up to use those wires. Then will continue reading on what type of wallwarts to use and see if I have any around.


----------



## Mephistopheles

I soldered two 6" pigtail wires to the motor and will crimp male quick connectors on those wires and on the wallwart i will use female connectors just in case I ever have need to reverse the direction/polarity of the motor.


----------



## LT Scare

Anyone know where these motors are available today?


----------



## kenkozpgh

Thanks for a great prop idea. I'm real sorry to read about the @ss that stole the idea and is selling on ebay.


----------



## WindyCityCouple

Actually LOVE this prop!! Great job and sorry to hear your idea was ripped off.

Has anyone considered doing a modification using a PicoVolt to insert a bit of randomness? I am thinking two motors and a pico volt would really be cool! If I can find a place that sells the motors I may give it a try.


----------



## Mephistopheles

Awesome idea! I have been thinking about using some type of controller. The PicoVolt would be perfect. I like the PicoVolt for it's ability to reverse direction
of the motor. I'm new to micro controllers and I'm having trouble programing the animation and not getting the results I want. 
I want the motor to slow down stop for half a second and then change direction slowly. What is happening to me is the motor stops for a number of seconds and then reverses. I don't know if that delay is part of the controller's character or if I'm doing something wrong.


----------



## WindyCityCouple

I think a second motor down the prop and moving the other over so each motor sits at the 1/3 mark would rock. Would give the effect of two hands moving independently. Unfortunately I cant find motors!!


----------



## DuckMan

WindyCityCouple I like your idea of the hands I was thinking of making this prop now I might try to change it up a little and maybe cut hands out of plywood so that when they push up you can kind of see the outline of the hand.


----------



## dk67

Anyone know where to get a motor for this (preferably not too expensive)? Thanks.


----------



## im the goddess

Madmax: thanks for the how to. I built mine a few weeks ago. One question, do you attach the burlap to the frame? I was thinking you should, but not too tightly.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## GhostDownUnder

that is really cool!


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## madmax

im the goddess said:


> Madmax: thanks for the how to. I built mine a few weeks ago. One question, do you attache the burlap to the frame? I was thinking you should, but not too tightly.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Yes and I use staples but tacks/nails/screws will also work. I usually leave a little play (not tight tight) in the cover but but not so much that the dirt funnels to the middle.


The burlap needs to be a tight weave ...NOT the loose weave that you get in the garden section at Lowes/HD. A yard (36x48) is $3 at JoAnn's. Wal mart also carries a tight weave burlap


----------



## Tyleete

I canNOT thank you enough for reposting this. I saw this, and loved it!! I'm too poor to afford $100 for one, sorry. But I found on Amazon where they had cheaper motors. And now I can (I think) do this! For anyone else, I found the motor here. Said there were two new ones for the price of $26. and change, and I just bought one. 
Thanks so much for sharing your awesome creation, and for the detailed how to and images. I'm only two years into making fun/creepy stuff, but I know I can do this. Have a great Halloween!


----------



## God of thunder

Just love the way your grave undulates. Fab!


----------



## Screaming Demons

Has anyone ever built one of these using a reindeer motor? Seems like it should work as long as there isn't too much resistance from the covering. It would provide a reasonably priced alternative to the now-expensive vent motor.


----------



## Nepboard

I bought my burlap at Joanne Fabrics for 4 bucks (40% off coupon). 2 yards was enough to do two boxes 2ft x 3 ft. The nice thing about Joannes is that they have multiple colors. I choose the darker brown burlap and then highlighted it with some flat black spray paint. You do need to used caution in how tight you put it on. I stapled one side and then turned it on and attached the other side just tight enough so that the motor turned freely.


----------



## madmax

Screaming Demons said:


> Has anyone ever built one of these using a reindeer motor? Seems like it should work as long as there isn't too much resistance from the covering. It would provide a reasonably priced alternative to the now-expensive vent motor.


I tried the deer motor and it worked OK at first then during testing (water hose set to a heavy rain) the dirt became too heavy after getting wet to give much lift before reversing. The prop can work without the dirt or just a very light dusting and more leaves...I believe the deer motor would be OK like that.


Nepboard is right...connect one side of the burlap then go by "touch/feel" on the other side. I usually stop the Piston/Cam at the apex of the lift before putting the burlap cover on. Staple the bottom last and if the cover has too much slack pull it (with the motor on) till you get it just right.

But there really isn't a "just right" look or feel as long as it's not too tight it will work.


----------



## LT Scare

Tyleete said:


> I canNOT thank you enough for reposting this. I saw this, and loved it!! I'm too poor to afford $100 for one, sorry. But I found on Amazon where they had cheaper motors. And now I can (I think) do this! For anyone else, I found the motor here. Said there were two new ones for the price of $26. and change, and I just bought one.
> Thanks so much for sharing your awesome creation, and for the detailed how to and images. I'm only two years into making fun/creepy stuff, but I know I can do this. Have a great Halloween!


Thanks!!! I picked up two at a reasonable price. Much appreciate the link!


----------



## Die N Rott

Thank SO much for posting this!!! I love the look of this prop and how "simple" it looks to make. I hope it is something my husband can build for me. It would be perfect for my graveyard. 

For about 12 years I set up and took down my display on Halloween because I was afraid someone would steal one of my props if things were left out overnight. Two years ago a put a couple of props out all month and nothing happened to them, so last year I put out even more. I'm going to continue setting up part of my display the entire month of October, but I keep thinking I hope it won't make me want to never do a display again if someone does eventually steal something...I can only imagine how you must have felt to have your work stolen. Thanks for sharing your talent.


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## im the goddess

Thanks for the reply. I also bought my burlap at Joann's. I bought a mossy dull green that I think will match my lawn in October.
I love this prop, and the tutorial was very easy to follow. Thanks again.



madmax said:


> Yes and I use staples but tacks/nails/screws will also work. I usually leave a little play (not tight tight) in the cover but but not so much that the dirt funnels to the middle.
> 
> 
> The burlap needs to be a tight weave ...NOT the loose weave that you get in the garden section at Lowes/HD. A yard (36x48) is $3 at JoAnn's. Wal mart also carries a tight weave burlap


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## madmax

Since the vent motor is next to impossible to get (at a decent price) I moved on to a motor easier for anyone to get...deer motor

Here a new video of the breathing grave using the deer motor. You can't use as much dirt on top (video I don't have any dirt) but the prop only needs a slight dusting any ways. The more weight the cams have to lift the less height they get before reversing. With this motor you can adjust the cover to get a pause at the apex of the lift


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## Bilbo

So I wonder if a wiper motor run off a computer power supply would work? Variable speeds and plenty of torque?


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## madmax

Depends on the speed you're looking for I personally think it would be way too fast for the eerie look


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## DaveintheGrave

The grave looks great with the deer motor, Max! I've got to make me one of those for next year, it's such a cool prop.


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## cbhaunt

Hi, so I finally have wires connected to the vent motor. My question now is, what powersource do I need? I'm going thru my box of walwarts from old scanners printers toys,etc and all say different volts and amps. What's the correct size to use on a vent motor for this project??


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## DaveintheGrave

I normally use one that puts out 12 volts DC and 500 milliamps.


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## madmax

Anything from a 9vdc to a 15vdc and 200 milliamps (mA) or more will work, the motor will only use as many milliamps as it needs.

most wall warts/power supplies are unregulated so they put out more than listed..

had some 9vdc to put out twice that and the easiest way to tell is to use a multimeter tool. One tool we all need if we make moving props...cheap to, low end $5


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## cbhaunt

So I'm trying to figure out how to put the threaded rod thru the motor. The instructions say to put the rod thru vent motor and put nuts on either side of the motor. 
So that would mean drilling thru the motor, correct? So the drilling would go right thru two of the gears aswell? 
Before I ruin a vent motor, I'd appreciate some direction from someone who has done this. Maybe I read it wrong and the rod just goes in the top nipple thing on the motor? Dunno, that's why I'm asking.


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## madmax

What type of a motor are you using...there's two types of vent motors used...

Let me show you and then tell me

If you are using this motor then you take a bolt the same size as the threaded rod (can use the threaded rod also) and screw it into the opening. The threads will cut threads into the plastic on the motor. DO NOT drill a hole through this or you will destroy the motor.










If you are using this type then the the threaded rod goes through the hole and you put a nut on each side to tighten it.



















I hope this helps. I will be leaving for Fla. sometime today (Spending Halloween at Disney world and stopping in Atlanta on the way to go through the #1 haunted house in the USA...Netherworld ) so I won't be back on the forum for a week but I'm sure someone can answer any questions you have.

Look at the How To that Daveinthegrave did on the vent motor (1st picture) and the How to I did on the "new vent motor" ...2nd picture

Good luck I hope you get it figured out because it's a really simple prop to build once you get the motor figured out.


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## Screaming Demons

cbhaunt said:


> So I'm trying to figure out how to put the threaded rod thru the motor. The instructions say to put the rod thru vent motor and put nuts on either side of the motor.
> So that would mean drilling thru the motor, correct? So the drilling would go right thru two of the gears aswell?
> Before I ruin a vent motor, I'd appreciate some direction from someone who has done this. Maybe I read it wrong and the rod just goes in the top nipple thing on the motor? Dunno, that's why I'm asking.


No, don't drill it out. The motor in Post #130 is different than the one that was originally used at the start of this thread. It sounds like that is the one you have. I'm trying to remember how he ran the threaded rod on the older motor but can't recall exactly. I'm sure madmax will post shortly letting you know how to do it.

Edited to add: See, I told you he'd post showing you how to do it. Guess we were typing at the same time.

Have fun at NetherWORLD! I hear it's a blast.


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## cbhaunt

Okay thankyou.
I have the first picture, so I don't drill thru. Good!!! 
I followed daveinthegrave instructions on wiring and threading the motor and I made ten of them yesterday. I'm only using one this year but I was on a roll so decided to do a bag.
The hole is already threaded via the instructions, so today I will attach the rod and finish the build! Wohoooo


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## Scooter072

*Motors???*

Ok, so I know I'm digging up an old thread here but does anyone know where to get any of the reindeer motors? I know the vent motors are pretty much gone at any kind of reasonable price now. I wanted to try to build this for my yard this year and I honestly think the version that was done with the reindeer motor looks a little more like authentic breathing when it reverses direction. I've looked around and can't seem to find a good source to buy the reindeer motors though that has them in stock. Any help at all would be appreciated.


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## Blarghity

According to their response to my inquiry on this very subject, Kindy's will have reindeer replacement motors restocked in Late August.


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## DaveintheGrave

MadMax is offering these motors for sale now:

http://www.halloweenforum.com/sale-merchants/126189-ac-5-rpm-motors-like-deer-motor.html


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## Scooter072

Thanks for the info guys. I got a PM from MadMax about the ones he has. I'm picking up a couple from him. Hopefully mine turns out as well as his....


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## Defenestrator

I'm past planning stage, and now into development for this year, and suddenly find myself in need of motors that I can no longer find!

Well, problem solved!

Thanks very much to Blarghity for the update on the projected re-stock of the reindeer motor, and thanks to DaveintheGrave for the update on MadMax's new offerings!

I can relax a bit now....


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## madmax

Just wanted to update this to say there is a new design on this prop and it's a very simple design for the "threaded rod part" I don't mind sharing how to on this part but I would rather do it through a pm for anyone wanting to build the prop.

I know that sucks and some people might think I don't want to share but that's not the case at all. I don't mind telling each of you how to but I'm trying to avoid a repeat of last year. 

So if anyone builds the prop contact me and I will share with you...best part NO TOOLS needed well other than a hacksaw blade or knife

Put "Threaded Rod" in the PM and I wont try to sell you anything ..I promise


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## ruafraid

Does anyone have a "breathing" or otherwise sound track they are using they are willing to share ?


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## Palladino

Awesome! I'm so sorry your design was ripped off. Some people have no class.


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## BROTHERSCRYPT.COM

I'm sorry someone stole your design. It is an awesome idea and great tutorial.

Thanks for sharing.


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## Nightcrawler09

any chance there are pictures from the build still floating around? hard to visualize it with just words. Video looks awesome!


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## ruafraid

These are two pics I took when I built mine yesterday but I used PVC instead of the threaded rod. I used the dimensions in the how to MadMax made that is missing the pictures I used youtube to find others that built them and saw the pvc version which worked for for me so far. 

http://s24.photobucket.com/user/ruafraid/media/PROPS/grave1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1

http://s24.photobucket.com/user/ruafraid/media/PROPS/grave2.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0


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## UnOrthodOx

Just finished one of the reindeer versions up myself. The mechanism anyway. Got some finishing touches to disguise the cover. Been a few years in getting to it...


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## DaveintheGrave

Looks like you nailed it! I don't see why that wouldn't work just fine.


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## Old Man Bakke

Just getting in on this thread!


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## madmax

Didn't realize the pictures were gone till someone pointed it out. I deleted the file from photobucket by mistake but I thought if I re-uploaded it with the same name the link wouldn't be broke...guess I was wrong.

I have a new design that makes the prop even simpler to build but I don't have the time to redo the how to. If anyone wants the pictures PM me and I will send them to you . I will try to answer any questions you have but you will need to PM me with them because for the most part I only check the build section of the forum and my PMs....Put Breathing Grave help in the title


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## Scooter072

I'm starting work on mine this weekend. Hopefully I can do your design justice...


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## anubiscrypt

I'm getting ready to do a MNT here in Michigan with my Prop Building club, PoorManProps. Does anyone have a picture of the inside of MadMax's design without the cover on it? As you all know the pics from this MNT are all gone.

Thanks,
Randy


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## Scooter072

anubiscrypt said:


> I'm getting ready to do a MNT here in Michigan with my Prop Building club, PoorManProps. Does anyone have a picture of the inside of MadMax's design without the cover on it? As you all know the pics from this MNT are all gone.
> 
> Thanks,
> Randy


PM MadMax and i'm sure he'll help you out. I built one last year and he was very helpful with pictures and info. I unfortunately did not save the pictures though.


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## cbhaunt

And if he does not have it, I have a word document with the pics and instructions that I used to build mine. Just pm me an email. Its a great prop


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## Schattenmann

madmax said:


> Didn't realize the pictures were gone till someone pointed it out. I deleted the file from photobucket by mistake but I thought if I re-uploaded it with the same name the link wouldn't be broke...guess I was wrong.
> 
> I have a new design that makes the prop even simpler to build but I don't have the time to redo the how to. If anyone wants the pictures PM me and I will send them to you . I will try to answer any questions you have but you will need to PM me with them because for the most part I only check the build section of the forum and my PMs....Put Breathing Grave help in the title


Yeah, photobucket changed the way it handles file names a few months back. Instead of using the name you upload it with, it adds a long string of numbers to the end.


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## Neuf350Z

Late to this thread but I just came across it and thought I'd pose this question...would a mirror ball motor work for this prop?


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## DaveintheGrave

I don't think a mirror ball motor would have enough torque.

This member of the forum sells a newer version of the vent motor:

http://www.halloweenforum.com/for-sale-by-merchants/129832-12vdc-new-vent-motor-sale.html


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## madmax

Had a lot of PM's wanting the info on this prop..hope the below pictures is enough to get anyone who wants to build it started.






There is no right or wrong size on this prop, I make mine 20 (w) x 30 (h) but the only reason for that is shipping cost (I sell this prop)...you can make it to fit your needs.

The motor I use is this motor ... you can get it on ebay (china, takes a couple weeks) it's the one on the left without a case for $8. I have this motor for $10 shipped....just about my cost. The motor on the right is the same motor that I put in a case and add the power cord ($18.50 shipped)



















I use 1/2 PVC for the frame...I use CPVC 1/2 for the cams and rod and the caps on the bottom. You can use 3 way elbows instead of the caps. Again I sell this prop so it cuts down on the shipping weight and cost. $1 for the caps vs $1.36 each for the 3 way elbows...use what works best for you.


3 way elbow










CPVC is the type of pvc used for hot water...usually pale yellow color at Lowes.














































You can make your cams the length that works best for you...I use 2.5 for the longer one and 1.5 for the shorter one

If you want them longer (higher lift) make sure your legs are longer so it will rotate 

I use 2 inch PVC to house the motor and use zip ties 



















I use burlap for the cover it needs to be a tight weave not the type used for landscaping....Joann's $4 a yard I don't have a picture of it on the one made of PVC but hers one with a wood frame . Yes you can use wood which might be cheaper. I moved away from wood because of the weight...again SHIPPING cost and it's quicker for me to build with the PVC










CPVC caps and tees









If anyone has any questions you can PM me


Connecting the burlap to the PVC. Make sure the larger cam is position straight up and spread your burlap over your frame with overlapping edges about the same all around. Put a dab of hot glue (about 5) on the end of the far side and about every 6 inches and press your burlap onto the hot glue. Do the same on the side closest to you and connect the burlap and finish it by putting a couple dabs on the end. DO NOT pull your burlap too tight if you do this it will not allow the cams to go completely around. 

This prop works best with just a dusting of dirt over the cover then place leaves on top of it. On my personal Breathing grave I hot glue a few leaves in place so the wind can't blow them. Then place dirt around the sides and the end of the prop...only a dusting on top.

Rough est of whats needed and cost...need a couple zip ties also and tape


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## DaveintheGrave

Thanks for the pics, Max! I don't know why I haven't built one of these yet.

Awesome prop!


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## namrog

Just want to say thanks to madmax. I was one of those who pm'd him for info and he was very helpful. I ended up using the wooden frame style. I couldn't figure how to attach the burlap to the pvc pipe. This is the first prop I've made and am very happy with the way it looks.


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## stuffyteddybare

I get wonderful ideas and thoughts from many people on this site..and max is no different..shame someone stole his idea and claimed it as their own child....now my idea with a twist on his..is to use this setup on a gravestone..with the assembly standing up instead of laying down..with the motor and rod inside a tombstone..the whole front of the tombstone side facing the viewer...is spandex..and inside a Styrofoam head on the turning rod instead of a cam..so as it turns it looks like someone screaming pressing against the face of the tombstone...and with some tinkering..maybe making the jaw moving..spectacular!...thank you max for the idea


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## LittleBlueBMW

mine just dies last night after 3 years of service. I will be looking here on how to repair! I know I got mine from you so could it be the motor gave up? It is not making running sounds, I will pull it inside tonight and check it. It has been a wonderful prop!


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## madmax

LittleBlueBMW said:


> mine just dies last night after 3 years of service. I will be looking here on how to repair! I know I got mine from you so could it be the motor gave up? It is not making running sounds, I will pull it inside tonight and check it. It has been a wonderful prop!


Might be the motor but it could be the power supply. I know this one was made with the vent motor but I don't know if it's the old or new vent motor...either way both used a 12vdc power supply. If you have a volt meter test the power supply. I have one with over 4,000 hours of use on it and it's been outside since I first started testing it over 3 years ago now. I still turn it on every once in a while and it still works.

If you can't get it running and want to change over to the new design you use the one you have and replace the motor, threaded rod and cams with this. Send me a pm if you need any help


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## madmax

stuffyteddybare said:


> I get wonderful ideas and thoughts from many people on this site..and max is no different..shame someone stole his idea and claimed it as their own child....now my idea with a twist on his..is to use this setup on a gravestone..with the assembly standing up instead of laying down..with the motor and rod inside a tombstone..the whole front of the tombstone side facing the viewer...is spandex..and inside a Styrofoam head on the turning rod instead of a cam..so as it turns it looks like someone screaming pressing against the face of the tombstone...and with some tinkering..maybe making the jaw moving..spectacular!...thank you max for the idea


That's what this forum is all about...

thinking!

there is always new twist that can be added to turn just about anything into other uses. As for the person that used my ideal to compete with me on ebay...

that was OK I didn't mind him selling on ebay my biggest complaint was him naming it the same as I called my prop and people thinking they were buying the prop from me (on ebay) and then contacting me on this forum when it didn't work because he used plastic instead of the burlap for the cover and a lot smaller than the one I built.

From day one I've always said I would rather someone build their own than to buy from me. I've been a member of prop making forums going on 15 years now and sharing our ideals and helping others is why this forum is still around going on 12 years.


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## Hottiemom24

So are the directions still up somewhere? I would love to do this for my zombie graveyard this year


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## madmax

Hottiemom24 said:


> So are the directions still up somewhere? I would love to do this for my zombie graveyard this year



Page 20 or go to the first post and click the link and as I said there are no "correct" size I gave what I used but it can be different. After looking at the pictures and reading the few instructions PM me if you have any questions. I built 12 today so I can take a video of any point in the build and help you.

But I look at my PM's a lot more often than here


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## LittleBlueBMW

It was more simple than a bad motor. There was small tear in the burlap that the rod wound itself into. Freed it, fixed the hole and it fire right back up! I am being cautious and only running it during the party and big night since its running every night seems excessive. Although it has done this in the past.


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## Saruman of Many Colours

Madmax,

Just wanted to say: Thanks! The breathing grave I'd purchased from you worked well, and proved a great success on Halloween night. Got more specific comments about it from TOTs and parents alike than anything else in my graveyard.


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## Defenestrator

I'd like to say the same as Saruman...ours has been in service for two years now, and done well in some crazy weather conditions.

It was definitely a focus for many of our visitors!


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## DaveintheGrave

I saw that one house used Madmax's breathing grave prop on the "Great Halloween Fright Fight". Sadly though, that house didn't win.


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## cricket515

Thanks Madmax! I loved my prop also. It was one of my favorites this year! What else do you sell??


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## Castart

Question,

I made one useing nylon from a stocking instead of burlap. I have noticed that it tends to get stuck, looking at it casually this year... appears that the stocking has I guess melted a little from the rubbing. Any thoughts about the material or anyone have experience/suggestions in regards to the material. What I did was glue some foam bricks on the nylons and make a breathing wall.


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## FearingtonHouse

Thanks, MadMax for all your information and hard work. (And, of course, Iove your username!!) I've put this prop on my todo list...so maybe some day soon. 

Question: I've been experimenting with manipulating PVC pipes with a heat gun for other props. I wonder...have you ever tried to connect the two push points with a twisty/gnarly pipe that could also provide some (strange) movement in between? In other words, replace the push point caps with a 90 degree & insert a pipe in between...


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## bayork

This was an easy prop to put together last year, and it gets LOTS of comments...

THIS year, I upgraded mine to now also have a moving tombstone. (I can show the workings if anyone is interested ...)


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## Roadkill_be

I am sorry that someone "stole" your idea and try to make a few bucks of it.

to bad for me because I love the effect and would like to try something like this, especially since I can't by nice stuff here in Belgium, so to bad that I misses the how to, but if you are still willing to mail it to me I would appreciate it a lot.


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## Oilfield trash

I would love to see the inner workings of the moving tombstone


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## Ken F

I would love the tutorial! Sorry someone stole your work, not cool! Would you consider sharing it with those who would respect your efforts ?


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