# Does you Haunted Hayride/House allow...



## Haunted Hayrides 2008 (Sep 18, 2008)

you to touch and grab people.

At my Haunted Hayride we can jump over the sides of the trailor grab people, hold them, take there stuff(obviously we give them back) We can pretty much do anything that you want. 

Just wondering if your Haunt does these things


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## Frankie's Girl (Aug 27, 2007)

No professional haunt or even yard haunter would ever do that around here.

Too much of a chance of someone being hurt, pissed off and lawsuits!

I have a friend that worked for one of the biggest pro haunts in the city, and they have a strict "no touching" policy - even with that, he was punched in the face a few times by people that got freaked out when he got close.

I'm amazed that you haven't had any accidents or lawsuits if you've been doing that for several years - but I sure wouldn't do it if it was me!


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## Haunted Hayrides 2008 (Sep 18, 2008)

Yea i know what you mean. To be honest i dont know if you would call us "professional" iv been here for three years. Yea people get mad and yell at us but they are warned before they come in the woods. Iv actually gotten yelled at by people because they are to scared.

Actually to years ago this one guy that was with us had a bad knee. He was on the trailor and got pushed off the back by some drunk dudes on vacation. He hurt his knee again becasue of that and the two guys got put in jail that night. 

You should suggest it, you cant be sued or anything as long as the people get warned and understand what they are going into. 

One haunted House in Milwaukee, WI actually can tackle you cut your hair ect.


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## Madame Leota (Sep 19, 2005)

DAN PATCH HAYRIDES said:


> Yea i know what you mean. To be honest i dont know if you would call us "professional" iv been here for three years. Yea people get mad and yell at us but they are warned before they come in the woods. Iv actually gotten yelled at by people because they are to scared.
> 
> Actually to years ago this one guy that was with us had a bad knee. He was on the trailor and got pushed off the back by some drunk dudes on vacation. He hurt his knee again becasue of that and the two guys got put in jail that night.
> 
> ...


Not true. You can have a 'no trespassing' sign on your fence but if someone jumps your fence and falls into a hole and gets hurt, they can still sue you. You can be sued for just about anything anyone can dream up. Whether or not they'll win is another matter, but it'll still cost you your time, legal fees, and reputation. Not worth it...


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## Conman (Aug 7, 2008)

i wish we could do that at my haunt but most of our crowd is TOTers and their parents


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## Haunty (May 31, 2006)

It's never alright to ever touch anyone, at any kind of haunted attraction. 
The liability factor is too great for people that are sue happy. It doesn't matter how many times you warn the patrons. 

On haunted hayrides that I've been on, (which is quite a few) the minions climb on the back of the wagon & try to reach for patrons. They startle scare them with chainsaws (without the chain blade) & run it along the metal railings of the wagon. Some have even climbed up into the wagon & walked around, then left.


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## utusemi (Sep 18, 2004)

DAN PATCH HAYRIDES said:


> You should suggest it, you cant be sued or anything as long as the people get warned and understand what they are going into.


Unless they sign a contract (which a few houses do around here) you can absolutely get sued. A verbal warning is hardly legally binding.


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## Haunted Hayrides 2008 (Sep 18, 2008)

Im starting to get the feeling people dont like the idea of being grabbed on here. Nothing is more frightning than to be grabbed in the middle of the dark in the woods. I love the fact that we can pretty much do whatever we want tp. Obviously we dont take it to far, it makes it alot more fun to do.


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## Lurks in the shadows (Mar 12, 2005)

As was said before, absolutely no touching should ever be allowed!

It's for your protection, not the customers.
How do you defend yourself from the allegation that while grabbing people to scare them, you happen to touch someone in a place they feel is inappropriate? It could happen accidentally, but it doesn't even need to have occurred at all. Just the accusation is enough.

You've just been accused of molesting children. 
- Prove you never copped a little feel.

All it takes is the allegation to destroy your life.

The whole "I can't be sued..." argument is laughable! Just who gave you that legal advice, a lawyer? You can have a signed, witnessed legally binding contract stating that you can't be sued, and it's still legal to sue you. 

If you continue to touch the patrons, eventually you will get sued. I might even show up for some of that easy money! "I saw you grab that little boys crotch!" Sometimes a child molestation case gets national media coverage! Again, prove it didn't happen. Too late, the damage is done. 

Even if you don't consider your haunt/hayride professional, the law does. If you charge admission, or you open yourself up to the public, you're professional.

By the way... You do have insurance to cover when a customer falls and hurts themself on your property, don't you?


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## DeadTed (Aug 12, 2007)

DAN PATCH HAYRIDES said:


> Im starting to get the feeling people dont like the idea of being grabbed on here. Nothing is more frightning than to be grabbed in the middle of the dark in the woods. I love the fact that we can pretty much do whatever we want tp. Obviously we dont take it to far, it makes it alot more fun to do.


How do you know what's too far? If I went to your haunt and you grabbed my leg and I thought that was too far, I could sue you... Warnings are great, but touching, grabbing, etc is ridiculous. I'm surprised this is a subject even being discussed.

Lurks in the shadows pretty much summed it up -- what you think is appropriate may not be for someone else. And when someone does sue you for touching inappropriately, prove that it wasn't inappropriate. When you/your haunt folks go to court, which it inevitably will, please post a thread here so we can keep track.

If you can't scare people without touching them, maybe you should try a different hobby.

I just can't stop giggling that you are trying to defend this by saying you won't take it to far, or only do it to a point... lol.


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## Haunted Hayrides 2008 (Sep 18, 2008)

Look...all of the touching grabbing that we do is merely a simple grab of the shoulders....even if we do grab there feet which has been done people are always laughing and having a good time. People come on to be scared and have fun we give them both. None of our touching is violent in any way. I think you people are taking it to seriously. I mean iv actually gone up to parents while on the hayride and looked at them and they say take the kids...so i take them and carry them to the front sit them down. People around here have a general open mind...people around here are not big jack***es. Like i said about 98% of the time people at the end are laughing there buts off and saying thanks alot. We usually do wave or do a bow at the end. 

If we scare a very young kid to the point where they are crying...we take our masks off to show them that were not here to harm them. In 6 years of the hayride being open there has never been anyone questioning whether or not they got touched in the wrong place.


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## haverghast asylum (May 28, 2007)

Not too sound like a jerk, but I thought you wanted other's opinions.


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## Frankie's Girl (Aug 27, 2007)

No one is trying to attack you, we're just pretty scared/concerned about the possibility of lawsuits in this day and age. We live in a very sue-happy society now, and most of us would err on the side of caution (even tho the scare-factor would be greater if touching was allowed) rather than take any risk of an injury or lawsuit.

I would think if you talked to any of the big professional haunts, they would tell you the same thing that all of the posters here have said - it's too much of a risk and they don't do it.

You've been very lucky that your patrons haven't had any complaints. If you feel comfortable with your haunt's level of interaction and the patrons are all aware of it as well (which you'd think they would be if you've been doing this for years), then it's your call to continue with your haunt the way you've always done it.  As long as they are warned up front, you would think that they'd have no reason to complain (and hopefully won't). 

It is kind of sad that haunts have to worry about contact/touching for fear of lawsuits, but that's the sort of society we live in unfortunately. 

Good luck, and have fun!


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## sumrtym (Aug 16, 2008)

Went to the Beast a couple weeks ago with the girlfriend since she had never gone (I'm sure you've heard of it as it's usually the top or near top ranked haunted house in the nation). She's terrified of chainsaws, and they run one without the blade and actually stick it through a slot and hold / run it back and forth against your legs. She couldn't even move as they held it against and in front of her legs and she was yelling at them to move the blade away.

My own experience on the same visit pissed me off beyond reason, and I'd love to be in a room with the operator for just a short time. There's a section where an animated alligator lunges at you. This is all controlled via a control room, not automatic or on sensors. The people ahead of us couldn't figure out which way to go next, so we got stuck (realize this is early in the season, NO ONE was behind us) trying to figure out where to go. After about 30-45 seconds, the guy in the operating room activated the alligator as I was standing right next to it. It lunged out into the walking path like how they have it placed hitting me in the left leg right below the knee and with pneumatics powerful enough it shoved me 2 feet over and I barely stayed on my feet.

This is also an area of my leg (the exact spot) I have a section of the bone that never filled in on the small bone about an inch-and-half long that I fractured going out for cross country in high school. It's very susceptible to breaks. It took 2 weeks before my leg stopped hurting, and I'm not sure it wasn't / isn't fractured. 

Chapping my hide on several levels was

1) the placement of a dangerous powerful pneumatic prop that extends far into the walking path,
2) the fact it was DELIBERATELY triggered by the operator when I was clearly in it's way to "move us along".

And yes, I fought long and hard about whether I was going to launch a law suit over that one. I still see red every time I think about it!

You want the fastest way to get into major trouble, continue touching / taking things from customers, even "in the spirit".


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## maximpakt (Aug 11, 2006)

May as well throw in my 2 cents, I personally wouldnt care if I was touched or grabbed, but as many others have said people are strange. Hell, at my haunt a couple of years ago I had 2 actors stabbed and many more punched , kicked, and gropped and we werent even touching anyone. And god knows I cant even get a charity haunt going because everyone is so damned scarred of being sued. Its rediculous but unfortunatly its the way it is.


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## Haunted Hayrides 2008 (Sep 18, 2008)

Sorry if i seem like i am being defensive about this. Honestly thank you all for all of your input. I personally wouldnt care of being touched or anything. You can tell when people have accidental actions or deliberately grab you in the wrong places. 

SUM- im sorry about that...we have a chainsaw guy to who sticks the chainsaw against peoples legs, iv had it done to me and it doesnt bother me. As for the alligator, thats stupid what they did...just plain dumb. I can see where your coming from but people know how powerful those types of things are. Like i said before we dont get violent at all, its a mere grab your shoulders scare you and be done with it. Sometimes touching is inevitable because we jump over the sides of the wagon. Just saying if it was me operating the machine i would have never set it off while you were standing right in its way. 

MAXI- I know exactly what you mean. People have grabbed my but and other places, tried to trip me off the back of the trailor and also have punched and pushed me. It all comes with the job. Like i said before the one guy got pushed off by a customer and he never came back. The customers went to jail for the night. 

To the people concerned i thank you for being concerned i truly do. All of our interaction with people is self controlled and very safe.


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## Haunted Hayrides 2008 (Sep 18, 2008)

And there is this Haunted House near Milwaukee thats insane. You pay a pretty decent amount of money to get in. Its a mansion with trap doors that send you to the beginning and then your done. If you make to the top you get your money back. The thing is that people can grab you, tackle you, cut your hair...they can do whatever they want to you to try and make you pick the wrong door. Ours is very mild compared to something like that


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## pollywog (Aug 7, 2008)

DAN PATCH HAYRIDES said:


> Im starting to get the feeling people dont like the idea of being grabbed on here. Nothing is more frightning than to be grabbed in the middle of the dark in the woods. I love the fact that we can pretty much do whatever we want tp. Obviously we dont take it to far, it makes it alot more fun to do.


It's always fun til somebody gets hurt.


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## Lurks in the shadows (Mar 12, 2005)

I'm glad to hear that there are still places where people aren't out to screw each other over, but beware those out of towners!

I'll be the first to admit that a lot of folks in my area are huge jacka**es! We've had the highest murder rate for many years. Heck, we're kind of proud of it!

I've had scaractors poked, prodded, kicked, and punched, and we absolutely do not touch! When people get startled they lash out sometimes. It comes with the territory. I've told my scaractors that if they get hit, don't get mad. They are to stop, step back and put their hands up, so witnesses can easily see that they are not being aggressive.
Yes, things are that bad around here.
I actually found myself doing the "see everybody, I'm not the bad guy" move at work about 7 years ago. Charlie had a history of fights, but management couldn't prove he was the aggressor. Well, several people, including my gen. foreman. (bosses boss!) saw me "surrender" and step back as Charlie stepped up and took a poke at me. We were both being escorted out of the factory, per company rules, when Charlie swung at our G.F.! As security grabbed him and literally drug him out, my G.F. tells me to "Go back to work, I think we know who started this."
I haven't seen Charlie since then, but I still have my job!

Sorry to ramble on, I'll blame the narcotics! 

When someone asks what scares me, I tell them "People do." You can never tell what they'll do. 
Although after being diagnosed with cancer, I have to admit that scared the Hell out of me! Still does, and I'm almost done with my chemo.

I wasn't trying to imply any of your workers were going to cross the line, but around here, if you don't wan't trouble, you keep that line more than arms length away!


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## utusemi (Sep 18, 2004)

DAN PATCH HAYRIDES said:


> People around here have a general open mind...people around here are not big jack***es. Like i said about 98% of the time people at the end are laughing there buts off and saying thanks alot.
> 
> In 6 years of the hayride being open there has never been anyone questioning whether or not they got touched in the wrong place.


It only takes one person to ruin it all for you. The advice you are getting here is safe, sound advice. Touching people may one day get you into very big trouble and we only want you to protect yourself and the TOTs. You probably aren't doing anything violent or over the top, be warned that is the people who will be offended by your actions that will make big problems for you and your friends.

We as a society shouldn't have to be so worried and scared about being sued or getting into trouble over every little thing. It is a sad time that "fun" can no longer be had and when a simple grab of the feet can turn into an accusation that lands you on a sexual predator list for life. It is the assumption that "people around here" all think the way you do is a bit naive and immature. Just think be careful and rethink the whole grabbing thing.

If you insist on touching people, perhaps post an example of your sign here so we can help you protect yourself as best you can if trouble occurs. Perhaps multiple warnings before hand...a sign, a few direct announcements and so on to your guests. I'm not sure if this is YOUR event, or just one you work at. Either way, always be prepared for the worst.


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## Malenkia (Sep 5, 2006)

We had our first "meeting" a couple nights ago and one of the things that constantly gets pounded into everyone is "watch out for yourselves and each other". We don't touch anyone, but we do get close and interact and last year we had a number of people get hit and one got maced. Who brings mace to a haunted house?! I can understand the insurance part of it and all of those arguments. But in just one year of doing this, I worry more about my people than I do abut the customers coming through.


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## Ugly Joe (Jan 13, 2004)

DAN PATCH HAYRIDES said:


> And there is this Haunted House near Milwaukee thats insane. You pay a pretty decent amount of money to get in. Its a mansion with trap doors that send you to the beginning and then your done. If you make to the top you get your money back. The thing is that people can grab you, tackle you, cut your hair...they can do whatever they want to you to try and make you pick the wrong door. Ours is very mild compared to something like that


This may be an urban legend:
snopes.com: Unfinishable Haunted House

Fact of the matter is, any place that is interested in avoiding lawsuits has a strict "no touch" policy.
I advise extreme caution to you and your colleagues if touching of any kind is happening on a regular basis, or can be proven to be more than accidental.
If someone can successfully sue McDonald's over coffee that's too hot, do you honestly think any lawyer would have the slightest trouble suing every single person on that hayride if someone decided to file a lawsuit?


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## Tumblindice (Aug 19, 2008)

First the Haunted House story that is too scary to finish is an urban legend as Ugly Joe points out. 
Second, I don't know who told you that you can't be sued because you warn the people but it is very poor advice, I suggest you heed it. 
You are liable to lose everything.


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## Haunted Hayrides 2008 (Sep 18, 2008)

I never said it was unfinishable...people have completed the Haunted House before but it is very difficult


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## utusemi (Sep 18, 2004)

DAN PATCH HAYRIDES said:


> I never said it was unfinishable...people have completed the Haunted House before but it is very difficult


I think the point is that it's an urban legend.


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## Tumblindice (Aug 19, 2008)

Hmmmmm....................


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## Tumblindice (Aug 19, 2008)

DAN PATCH HAYRIDES said:


> I never said it was unfinishable...people have completed the Haunted House before but it is very difficult


Dan, this Haunted House you are talikng about does not exsit. It is an urban legend.


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## GDfreak (Jul 11, 2006)

DAN PATCH HAYRIDES said:


> One haunted House in Milwaukee, WI actually can tackle you cut your hair ect.


Ahhh HELLLL NOO!!! If someone cut my hair those sciors would be through their neck and I would be laping up their blood. J/k. But it wouldn't be a pretty scen I can gaurante that.

Anyway, I do think it sucks we live in a sue happy time where you can't even touch people in a haunt. I know when i worked in the house at six flags we couldn't touch them. We could get as close as we wanted though just no touching. But sometimes it happened. People run into you, you jump out and accidently touch them, one time I was chasing a group of people and this stupid lady ran in front of me for some reason when i was jumping up and down like a crazy peroson. Well when I came down from the jump she ran infront of me and my fist totaly punched her in the back. Of course it was her own stupid fault but she could have said I touched her. I know theres a house in Austin or somewhere that thay can touch and grab you, but you have to sign a contract and its' like $50 to get in and you get your money back if you make it out in the end.

But I wouldnt touch people just incase. However if you do tell them in the begging and are totaly comfortable with it thank I say just be carefull. maybe it would be a good idea to have them sign a contract or something. That way if they do decide to go sue you, you have a nice little piece of paper to show the court that has their signiture saying that they know and agree that the actors in the Haunt can touch them. Than they are the ones who are screwed over.


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## sumrtym (Aug 16, 2008)

Why is it you want to touch people so badly anyway? Given all the disadvantages, and no matter if someone signs something or not, you CAN be sued and LOSE, I find this giddy fascination with "touching" the people you want to scare a little odd. 

Most people don't appreciate being touched by others when not invited, and this "I should be able to get away with it" thing is just a bit childish IMO.

But then again, I'm one of those that while enjoy Halloween, don't care for people using it as an excuse to vandalize property either with eggs / shoe polish / toilet paper / stealing or breaking props / pumpkins / mailboxes / candy from kids, etc. Call me a killjoy, but I can certainly appreciate Halloween with certain allowable limits that have to do with a bit of respect still applied to people no matter what the season.


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## Halloweenfan (Sep 18, 2008)

^I agree with you on the second part as I really hate that.

For this Haunted Hayride, you have to understand that people are defensive, and most people don't want to be violated. If you touch them, they might touch you back because you are in your area, and they don't trust you. 

That's why someone at a Six Flags haunted house without touching could get hit because they are in people's space right on top of them, and usually these characters don't stop. If you touch a person, they might want to fight back even though you aren't doing it fighting style. I really hate these characters at Six Flags that will just stalk a person forever. Get your scare, and then leave them alone.

A written sign doesn't mean anything anymore. A person gets injured at an amusement park, and they are sued even though there might be sign about this or that. It just doesn't matter.

I can't ever agree on the coffee is hot at Mcdonald's. I think that's what started all this sue happy stuff.


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## Pat-f (Oct 15, 2006)

I really wish they would touch you. All of the haunted houses that I've been to in my area, are so lame, that I don't really get scared anymore. It seams like I'm just paying 10.00 to walk through a room with a strobe light. I hate strobe lights, they're soooo annoying. Yet all the haunted houses in my area rely on them heavily. I didn't even go to one last year I was so sick of it.


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## haverghast asylum (May 28, 2007)

Only one person has ever been touched in my haunt, and they asked for it.

They punched one of my actors in the face 3 times. THis was no accident, or 

scare reaction. I know because the time delay from the scare to the punches 

was about for seconds. Any way my moms friend ( a big dude) put the guy in a 

lock hold, and took him out the fire exit. Guy said he was going to call the cops. 

Until we told him we had the whole thing on tape. In reality we have no 

cameras in the haunt.


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## GDfreak (Jul 11, 2006)

haverghast asylum said:


> Only one person has ever been touched in my haunt, and they asked for it.
> 
> They punched one of my actors in the face 3 times. THis was no accident, or
> 
> ...


Thank God I never got hit. but they told us if we did and they wouldn't stop than we could fight back but it never happened. We never even got close to being hit. Well almost, but that was a stupid red neck and the guide moved him along.


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## cwolfe83 (Aug 8, 2008)

We went to one a few years ago and some guy hit a girl that was a part of the haunted house. The cops were involved and everything. I felt bad for the poor girl. I hope they locked him up.

As far as there being a house in Milwaukee that cuts your hair, etc. I've never heard of it if so I doubt that's true.


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## Haunted Hayrides 2008 (Sep 18, 2008)

See i dont get why everyone is wound up so tight that if someone touches you you fly off the handle like a slingshot. Touching is good is adds affect to the scare. Im not talking about hitting someone or grabbing at them with the intention to hurt them. See Pat-F understands the reasons why we do it. Also Pat i agree on the strobe lights this year at all 3 of my scenes we dont have a strobe light. Last year we did a Jester scene and we used alot of strobe and it worked for that scene. two years ago we used alot of fog and black lights at my scene. 

As you can tell we like to change things up alot every year.


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## Pat-f (Oct 15, 2006)

I also don't understand why every one is so up tight about it. As long as the actors do not touch any one in an area that would be covered by a swimsuit (private areas) or touch with the intent to do harm; ie punch hit, cut hair clothes ext, it should be fine. There shouldn't be any reason for a lawsuit. I personally don't see anything wrong with placing a hand on someones shoulder, or grabbing his or her ankle. 

Strobe lights on the other hand, I see some potential for lawsuits there. Strobe lights can trigger seizures in people even if they do not have epilepsy. When I was doing mobile DJ work, I was told to use the strobe sparingly. Also, fog and dark colored lighting would give a far better ambiance then a strobe would. Dan, I sure wish your hayrides were close to the Seattle area, it sounds like a lot of fun.


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## Junit (Sep 1, 2008)

The rides out here just have people jump on or bang things around. No touching of the riders.


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## haverghast asylum (May 28, 2007)

AS for strobe lites, the faster the flash, the more dangerouse they are. I keep all my strobes on the slowest setting. I think the effect is better., and they do not make you feel as sick. I have around 30 strobes. They are all I use. Well I few beacon lites too


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## Pat-f (Oct 15, 2006)

The haunts around me must use them on their fastest setting, because I'm usually quite nauseated after the first one.


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## haverghast asylum (May 28, 2007)

Yeah I hate strobes on the fast setting.


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## LV Scott T (Aug 14, 2007)

Back to touching...

I'll have to go back & re-read it, but I think this month's issue of HauntWorld features an article about a very successful ProHaunt that includes touching.

Personally, I would approve of actors touching and/or grabbing guests as long as the guests knew it would happen and agreed to it and the actors were trained for it. Also, not every run. Maybe have a special "full contact" run once each hour or a separate queue for it.

One of my haunt designs featured a female actor PRETENDING to be a guest that got grabbed from behind and pulled into a hidden doorway. This happened near the end of a long hall and in full view of the actual guests. I had to remove it because NOBODY wanted to continue down that hall!


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## Pat-f (Oct 15, 2006)

LV Scott, that sounds awesome. It would be especially cool if she was actually part of the crowd.


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## Haunted Hayrides 2008 (Sep 18, 2008)

we have staged people getting grabbed off the trailor and stuff. Back to the touching thing, we do have to be careful because the town Lake Geneva, WI which has the Grand Geneva in it. 
See its a very big tourist place because...

1: The Grand Geneva is where the Original Playboy mansion was.
2: Soap opera hit "The young and the restless" idea was created here.
3: The stupid card game dungeons and dragons originated in Lake Geneva.
4: Geneva Lake is the deepest lake in wisconsin.


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## Ween12amEternal (Apr 15, 2006)

DAN PATCH HAYRIDES said:


> we have staged people getting grabbed off the trailor and stuff. Back to the touching thing, we do have to be careful because the town Lake Geneva, WI which has the Grand Geneva in it.
> ...



Is this the one outside Timber Ridge Resort @ Grand Geneva? If so, we took your hayride last year for our anniversary (hubby knows what I like!) and it was really fun! I don't remember the actors grabbing anyone, but they did get 'up close & personal' with a few guests, even sat next to one, put his arm around (behind) her & stared at her for quite a while. Overall a very good time.

/ON TOPIC: Yeah, when I worked in the local JC's Haunted House, we were absolutely not allowed to touch guests, period. Just didn't want the liability (and no insurance to cover it.)


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## carolann (Sep 24, 2008)

We love haunted houses, but if we honestly went to one where it involved touching- DH wouldn't be happy. DH is a war vet and it's not the best idea to throw a surprise or a twist such as touching him like that for a scare.

Not saying touching shouldn't be allowed- but I think it could lead to lawsuits(As other people stated), or touching someone who really shouldn't be touched. It sounds like it works for your hayride, so I guess if it works- keep at it!


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## Haunted Hayrides 2008 (Sep 18, 2008)

We'en12amEternal said:


> Is this the one outside Timber Ridge Resort @ Grand Geneva? If so, we took your hayride last year for our anniversary (hubby knows what I like!) and it was really fun! I don't remember the actors grabbing anyone, but they did get 'up close & personal' with a few guests, even sat next to one, put his arm around (behind) her & stared at her for quite a while. Overall a very good time.
> 
> /ON TOPIC: Yeah, when I worked in the local JC's Haunted House, we were absolutely not allowed to touch guests, period. Just didn't want the liability (and no insurance to cover it.)


Yes this is the same hayride...im glad you had a good time. Yes we do and can touch people. Come again this year for the hayride we have alot of good and new scenes. Also the tractor is going in a different direction this year. please come again and come back and write a review for it. Thanks for the compliments. The scene i worked on was the Jester scene where we had the clown in the back and the dice with strobes in them also we had the jack in the box.


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## dawn408 (Aug 14, 2008)

I owned a pro-haunt for 5 years and if the owners at your haunt let the actors touch the customers they are just asking for trouble. It is technically illegal to grab someone in a haunt the same way you can't just grab someone you don't know while you are shopping at Walmart. It is true that you can probably get away with grabbing customers in a haunt because most customers seem to be ok with it but that doesn't make it right. 

I had a strict no touching rule but one night I had an actor who was over 21 grab a 16 year old girl. Within minutes after she left the haunt I had her VERY angry mom and dad at my ticket booth. Things got really ugly especially with the fact that an adult had grabbed a child. I fired the actor on the spot and refunded the girl and her friends their ticket money and gave them a couple hundred bucks worth of the gift cards we used to reward the actors after a good night. I was very lucky I wasn't sued.

My liability insurance covered things like accidents but it would have never covered a willfull illegal action by one of my employees.

Also it doesn't matter if you tell the customers before they go in that they may be touched....you can even have them sign something...they can still sue..you also have to remember that most of your customers are minors and they can't legally sign any sort of contract anyway. 

Also the stories about about haunts that cut your hair or give you your money back if you make all the way thru are simply urban legends. Pro haunting is a business that has to make a profit. 95% of your customers will make thru your haunt no matter how scary it is. You just can't afford to give refunds. Running a haunt is very expensive with the cost for props, insurance, rent, advertising, payroll, maintenance, electricity, etc. As far as cutting someones hair...this would be impossible...why would you give an actor sharp scissors in a dark haunt and what customer would be stupid enough to stand patiently there while an actor cut their hair? If you started cutting peoples hair in a haunt you would have a riot on your hands and the actor that did the hair cutting would wind up in the hospital after getting beat down by angry customers. I used to hate hearing these stupid stories---everynight I would have customers tell me about the haunt that gave refunds if you made it through...they could never tell you the name or exact location of the haunt cause it simply didn't excist or they would tell you the name of some other haunt in town that I know for a fact wouldn't ever do something like this cause I knew the owners.

Well anyways---I know that some haunts do allow touching. My point is just that this is a bad idea that can lead to a lawsuit or worse. What if an angry parent went to the news about their child being grabbed. The story could easily be twisted into some sexual child molester thing even though it is not true it will still ruin your business. Its not easy to tell someones age in a dark haunt---a 16 year old girl can easily look over 21.

In my opinion having to touch someone to get a scare shows lack of creativity by the haunt owner and the actors. A good actor doesn't need to touch you to get a scare.


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## Haunted Hayrides 2008 (Sep 18, 2008)

wow...dawn taking a shot at our scenes/actors and owners. Thats sweet the fact is people around here after 6 years of this hayride going on we have been touching people. We make the hayride entertaining and worth your money. To be honest we had people come back to our hayride from Chicago just to go to the hayride. Taking a shot at our hayride is pretty lame.


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## Pat-f (Oct 15, 2006)

I'll have to agree, that was pretty low. Come on, how many options do you really have for scaring people? I'll have to admit, I've never worked a pro haunt, I'm only here to give input from a paying customers point of view. I am an adult, and the gory scenes, fake blood and spiders along with the clown with the chainsaw cliché are things I've become conditioned to. They don't scare me. The things that jump out at me? Maybe the first time, but after that I expect it from any prop or dark corner. And the guy who follows you around staring... Well that's more annoying then anything else. I go to a haunt, and pay them my money with the intent of being scared s***less, yet every time I leave disappointed. I think the price to get in is the scariest part. And Dawn, with your employee who grabbed the girl. Where or how did he grab her?
Touching someone in a haunt is a lot different then just grabbing someone at Walmart. Going to a haunt is just like going to a play, where the audience is part of it. I don't know if anyone has been to a dinner theater, but there is usually some physical interaction.


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## DeadTed (Aug 12, 2007)

DAN PATCH HAYRIDES said:


> wow...dawn taking a shot at our scenes/actors and owners. Thats sweet the fact is people around here after 6 years of this hayride going on we have been touching people. We make the hayride entertaining and worth your money. To be honest we had people come back to our hayride from Chicago just to go to the hayride. Taking a shot at our hayride is pretty lame.


How about you not start a thread on such a controversial topic only to get upset at everyone trying to tell you they don't think it's a good idea.

You are taking this way to personal... you've gotten input and opinions from several average joes and then when you get an actual professionals opinion and concerns you get defensive. He didn't take a shot at you or your haunt.

No one here is telling you that you or your actors are bad people. I'm sure we would all agree you have a genuine intent to be good, safe, fun people. That you'd never want to do anything to harm anyone. That's not the issue and it's something most of these posts are trying to convey. What everyone here does want you to know is that you are dancing on a fine line - despite YOUR thoughts and opinions. So stop being a baby and if you can't handle others disagreeing with your methods, then stop posting.

It would spectacular if no legal action come to your haunt - no one here wishes that upon you, but no one here is going to be surprised when it happens. That's all we're trying to say.


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## Pat-f (Oct 15, 2006)

"In my opinion having to touch someone to get a scare shows lack of creativity by the haunt owner and the actors. A good actor doesn't need to touch you to get a scare. "

This was the "low blow". You can offer input or advice with out insulting ones ideas or skill level. I'm glad he posted this topic, because it's good for people to see both sides of the topic.


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## DeadTed (Aug 12, 2007)

I agree it's great to see both sides of this, no doubt. But Dan is getting all up in arms because folks are disagreeing with his tactic.

"In my opinion" is the first thing in dawn's sentence. That's his opinion; if you don't like it, tough. If you or anyone else disagrees and thinks that you are just as creative scaring people by touching them, than not, then great, tough for dawn408.

I, in fact, said the same thing in my earlier posts about if you have to touch people to scare them, maybe you should try a different hobby, so I'd agree with dawn on this one.

Again, no one here is saying Dan is a bad guy for doing it, just that it probably will get him in to trouble later, despite his efforts to cover himself. IF ANYTHING, I'd venture to say these posts are trying to help him more than anything. You've got people that have had personal experiences, people that have actually run haunts, and even a few that have said if they went to the haunt and got touched, they'd have a inkling to sue the place themselves. It's all opinions and I don't think anything anyone says here is going to change Dan's mind/methods -- and that's fine, you are going to get opinions and not all of them are going to agree.

I'm not going post in this thread anymore because I've already spent too much of my time giving _my _opinion. I said it earlier that when this eventually goes to court, please post so we can follow it. I wish the best for Dan and his haunt because I love that there are folks out there dedicating their lives to such an awesome holiday. I would, in fact, love to see photos of this hayride. But I'm not going to sway on my thoughts that touching folks, this day in age, is a bad idea and going to lead to trouble. Good luck.


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## dawn408 (Aug 14, 2008)

Dan-- Sorry if you took my opinion as an insult because it wasn't meant that way. I don't understand why you posted your question to begin with if you don't want to even consider what people have to say. I thought in my reply to you I gave you some good advice. I know firsthand about the risks that go along with touching customers because it happened at my show. One day someone at your haunt will grab the wrong person and and the actor will get beat up or the owners will get sued. If a haunt makes the news because something bad has happened it reflects poorly on all of us home and pro haunters. If the owners of your haunt are ok with the financial risks involved in touching customers then go for it. If you are ok with putting you own safety at risk by touching people than go for it.

Pat---to answer you question the way that the customer was touched was that the actor grabbed the girls upper arm as her group was running away after he had scared them.


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## sumrtym (Aug 16, 2008)

And it's all too easy if you scare someone to brush a breast as they turn or just a mistake in the dark, and that's all it takes. I know a number of women that have been to haunted houses, and several have stories about houses and being "touched" in a haunt.

All it takes is a couple of "accidents" against the wrong person or under aged, and you'll pay more than you can imagine. 

Not to be a bit critical, but everything on the internet lives forever. This whole thread could end up in court one day as evidence you were fully warned and aware of the consequences of allowing those actions at your haunt.


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## Tumblindice (Aug 19, 2008)

Just had a look at your website... with so much else going on, pony rides, sleigh rides, trail riding there seems so much to lose just because you want to touch someone to scare them? This just does not make sense to me.


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## haverghast asylum (May 28, 2007)

sumrtym said:


> Not to be a bit critical, but everything on the internet lives forever. This whole thread could end up in court one day as evidence you were fully warned and aware of the consequences of allowing those actions at your haunt.



Really? That is kind of scary.


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## haverghast asylum (May 28, 2007)

Try building an ankle tickler prop. It will have the same effect as an actor touching guests legs, but without the added risk of undeicent touch charges. http://www.hauntedprops.com/ProductImages/aaaaaaaahotcostumes/CIMG2916_2.jpg


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## Haunted Hayrides 2008 (Sep 18, 2008)

To everyone....i take constructive criticism greatly. I think that saying people have a lack of creativity is somewhat of a low-blow. To be honest i started this thread to get peoples point of view. I never expected someone to doubt our creativity. If they do...they do....oh well. this thread could end up in court someday....whos knows all I know is that iv been in this hayride for three years and like I said people are always laughing and having a great time. if you read the post of a person who actually went on the hayride they said it was alot of fun. we sit next to you and put our arm around you and just sit there. People at the end of the hayride thank us for the hayride and always leave clapping.

Tumblindice-I know that they have alot going on at the stables, but honestly im only involved in the hayride and thats it. The owners of the stables and put on the hayride every year make enough money to support them the whole year. Actually this year we are starting the hayride a day early because a group of 90 people called and requested for a hayride a night early. 

We were supposed to have the hayride trial run thursday October 2nd and have the first official night friday the 3rd. With this phone call we are having the trial run wendsday the 1st and having the opening night the 2nd. 

Im saying all of this not in defense or to be uptight about your comments but to just to show that our hayride is very succesful and people keep coming back. 

I suggest if anyone is visiting Lake Geneva or near Lake Geneva, WI jump on the hayride and see for yourself....tell me what you think.


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## Long_Tom (Oct 26, 2005)

I haven't read the whole thread, so apologies if I'm repeating this point...

I would not allow touching, not just for the liability issue, but for the safety of the actors. Grab the wrong person and you may get beat up badly. Even one well-landed punch can send someone to the hospital.

The fact that so many haunts have a no-touch rule is a factor in itself. People don't expect to be touched by the actors, and when it occurs, they may decide that it's not part of the act -- maybe an unruly guest trying to start trouble -- and react accordingly. I know I would have little compunction about defending myself vigorously if grabbed. Putting your arm around someone is one thing, but any manhandling and all bets are off.

First, do you want your actors hurt? Second, as the owner, you really don't want the police report to note that your guy started it.


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## Haunted Hayrides 2008 (Sep 18, 2008)

Long Tom- Im not the owner of the hayride im an 18 year old male that works at the hayride i am the one taking the risk of being beaten up.


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## Haunted Hayrides 2008 (Sep 18, 2008)

Long Tom- Also i did state this before....we are not there to manhandle anyone or harm anyone. Just a simple touch or grab, its nothing more than a simple tug or so.


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## Pat-f (Oct 15, 2006)

Dan, I just came up with a scene idea. Have an actress on the wagon with the guests. Have another actor or actress pull her off the wagon and drag her off. Then have the wagon come upon the two, only the one actress is replaced with a dummy that looks like her, and the other actor or actress is hacking the dummy up with an axe. When the actor or actress sees the wagon, he or she puts down the axe, and goes after the wagon.


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## Haunted Hayrides 2008 (Sep 18, 2008)

nice idea Pat...that actually sounds pretty cool. The only issue with that is i dont know how many people would realize that its the same person. 

Is there anyone going to be in Lake Geneva, Kenosha, Racine, Twin Lakes,Wisconsin

if so contact me if you are visiting and i will give u directions to the hayride.


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## Pat-f (Oct 15, 2006)

They would have to be dressed the same, and the scene would have to be close enough so that they could see the dummy in detail. It would probably work better in a haunted house though. 

I certainly wish I was in Wisconsin, I'd probably go several times. However from Seattle it's a bit of a drive.


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## Haunted Hayrides 2008 (Sep 18, 2008)

Why do u wish you were in wisconsin?


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## Haunted Hayrides 2008 (Sep 18, 2008)

any other opinions on this subject?


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## Pat-f (Oct 15, 2006)

I wish I was in Wisconsin so I could either go to your hay ride or help with it. All the shows ice been to in my area are lame. I've sent a few emails to a group near me, to are about joining them, but they never email me back.


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## Haunted Hayrides 2008 (Sep 18, 2008)

ohh....alright if i get some time before the opener i will post some pictures up of some of our scenes


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## Chalice (Aug 30, 2008)

I have a suggestion that might provide a "happy medium" between the two camps. Why not have the patrons "touched" by something, just not an actor? Having some threads or some other "whispy" object hanging from low tree limbs that could touch the face or head as the patrons rode by would be VERY creepy, yet no one gets sued, no one gets punched, no one gets hurt.

I've been through some of the best haunts in the US, and sometimes it the little things like "whisps" in the face that really get ya.


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## Lurks in the shadows (Mar 12, 2005)

Sorry it has taken me so long to comment. My chemo puts me out of commission for a while.

I really like the suggestion of an ankle tickler, I've had good success with mine.

About "where to grab/touch". I'll use myself as the example. While a hand on the shoulder is pretty innocent by almost everyones' standards, in my case it may kill me.
I have a mediport for my chemo injections. It has a tube that goes over my collar bone and into a vein, with the end of the tube very near my heart. Half of this port is just under my skin. If I were to be startled by having someone grab my shoulder, it could tear the vein and I could bleed to death.
That scenario isn't very likely to happen, but it is possible. My point is, you just don't know.

Dan, your claim that "i take constructive criticism greatly." may be true, but you haven't shown that characteristic in this thread. You've become very defensive and seem to completely dismiss the advice of pro and semi-pro haunters who are much more experienced than you. We understand that this is a successful haunt. We believe that nobody means any harm. We know that so far, the customers have enjoyed the haunt. We also agree that touching the patrons is a bad idea.

The fact that there is only one person who agrees that touching should be allowed, plus the fact that the one exception has admittedly never even worked at a haunt, should lend some weight to the overwhelming opinion that has been expressed here.

Regarding the "lack of creativity". There was no insult. The act of grabbing someone to startle them simply is not very imaginative. Just as using dim lighting in a maze to create a sense of unease is a simple ploy. Nearly every good haunt uses basic run of the mill tactics to thrill the customers. Not everyone can afford $15,000 animatronics.

I also like Pat-Fs' idea about dragging someone off, and then finding the remains later. That is a good example of something a bit more creative than grabbing someone and yelling to startle them.

By the way, there is a big difference between startling and scaring. A startle goes away when the adrenalin wears off, but you take scared home with you.


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## nyhaunter (Apr 15, 2004)

I have to agree w/ Lurks and everyone else here. I have been following the thread for awhile. I guess I am surprised any haunt allows this. Like "'Lurks" I had a port put in for chemo. Soon after I got it put in, I was at a local drug store and some guy accidentlly bumped into me with one of those folding beach chairs...unfortunatly right in my chest (I'm only 5'1...this guy was at least a foot taller than me and *wham* right in the port.) When I got home it was very bruised and a few days later took on a scary red color. When I went to the Dr. I was sent over to the hospital and the port was taken out since it was dangerously infected. Granted, this did not happen at a haunt. Just an example of crazy stuff that can happen. My point is that you never can tell who should and shouldn't be touched (as someone pointed out veterans of war, someone who has a not readily detectable illness/injury, or just people who don't want a stranger invading thier person). I go to a very large and succesful local hayride every year..if I knew there "might" be touching..forget it! They do however follow you around..stare..cut in line behind you and show up at random times when you don't expect it. I find that more un-nerving and scary than some goof that jumps out and grabs my arm. JUST MY humble opinion.


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## Pat-f (Oct 15, 2006)

Well there are defiantly some good reasons why you probably shouldn't grab someone. I didn't think of medical reasons. You guys definitely being up some good points. I wish the haunts in my area were scarer but maybe grabbing someone is not the answer. In most cases I don't see anything wrong with it, and I wouldn't have a problem if someone grabbed me. However, I can see where it might not be a good idea.


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## Haunted Hayrides 2008 (Sep 18, 2008)

Im sorry to hear about your medical issues, i truly did never think of it that way. Its just me and maybe our hayride but we will continue to touch/grab people. I thank you all for your concern but its very hard to stop something that has been so successful over the years. You may think it is wrong and i really do understand. I still believe that taking a shot at our creativity is somewhat of a childish remark, but thats just my opinion. So far on this thread one person has been to the hayride im at and loved it. Its only one review of it, i guess im just trying to say that we know our limits and you can control violently grabbing someone and just a gentle nudge.


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## HD-Lilly (Jan 23, 2008)

> The thing is that people can grab you, tackle you, cut your hair...they can do whatever they want to you to try and make you pick the wrong door. Ours is very mild compared to something like that


I agree that touching is a no- no.
And they absoluteley cannot cut your hair...!!!! 


where did you find your bylaws for WI.. I am interested in knowing these for future ref. If I ever decide to go this route.

I sent you message on directions also


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## Haunted Hayrides 2008 (Sep 18, 2008)

Thanks Lilly for your interest....but please do not come to our hayride if you are planning on sueing if touched by anyone. We all would like for you to have an enjoyable safe good time on the hayride. This goes for everyone....if your only intention is on getting people in trouble for touching then please dont ruin the the whole thing. If you do have a complaint for it tell it calmly to the front desk of the stables and they may take action for peoples advice.

I am not the owner of the hayride/stables.


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## Tumblindice (Aug 19, 2008)

DAN PATCH HAYRIDES said:


> I am not the owner of the hayride/stables.


I wonder if the owner knows what a bad idea it is to have actors, especially teenagers touching and grabbing people on his/her hayride? His/her liability is huge and I doubt he/she is aware of all of the ramifications involved in allowing this type of behavior to continue. No rational business person would operate in a fashion that could cost them to lose everything just because his/her actors think it is cool. Perhaps the right thing to do would be to direct him/her to this thread so they can read what forum members have written as far as advice and warnings. Just a thought...


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## Pat-f (Oct 15, 2006)

I have thought about this subject a lot, since it's been brought up, probably more so than it deserved. However I think I may have come up with an idea that would be a win/win for both sides. Post signs at the ticket booth, as well as the entrance, warning the people that touching or grabbing may happen, and give them the option to opt out. Also, have the person who sells them the ticket as well as the person who takes the ticket verbally warn them also. If one person in the group opts out have him or her where a button with a blinking light, or carry a light stick. The actors would be instructed not to touch people in groups where one of the members had the blinking light or light stick.


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## Haunted Hayrides 2008 (Sep 18, 2008)

Im sorry that you feel that way Tumblindice....but i am the youngest person out there turning 19 in november...there are no real young teens out there that dont know the limits. Its not that we think it is "the kool thing to do" it just throws something different to add to our hayride that others dont have. I truly am sorry that you feel that way and i respect your opinion. Like i said before its hard to fix something that works effectively and also makes the crowd applaud us at the end.


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## Ugly Joe (Jan 13, 2004)

DAN PATCH HAYRIDES, you've wanted to be "right" through all of this thread, and you have certainly stuck with this long enough to get yourself some great free advertising - perhaps it's time to let this thing go.

If you want to be "right", then fine, you're "right". The way you folks handle your haunt is "right". Anyone who can't see that is "mis-informed", and all of the folks who've tried to offer friendly, courteous, and PERTINENT advice are simply missing the point, or picking on you.

Keep in mind this argument goes beyond simply touching people - it's about respect for others, their personal space and freedom from uninvited contact, and the responsibility placed upon entertainers to adhere to what is a fairly uniform code of conduct which is good for the haunting industry, if not the entertainment industry.

But all in all, I hope the haunt you work is successful and will only be closed when the owner decides the time has come.


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## HD-Lilly (Jan 23, 2008)

DAN PATCH HAYRIDES said:


> Thanks Lilly for your interest....but please do not come to our hayride if you are planning on sueing if touched by anyone. We all would like for you to have an enjoyable safe good time on the hayride. This goes for everyone....if your only intention is on getting people in trouble for touching then please dont ruin the the whole thing. If you do have a complaint for it tell it calmly to the front desk of the stables and they may take action for peoples advice.
> 
> I am not the owner of the hayride/stables.


I wasn't planning on coming down to sue anyone... just looking for something to do, since my friend lives down there.
send me info on how much it is to get in too.


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## sumrtym (Aug 16, 2008)

Two people chime in about how being touched / grabbed in the wrong place could kill them or cause other medical issues to which the OP reply was a big "I didn't think of this, but we'll keep touching / grabbing anyway".

I think that's really all there is to say on the matter. Real feedback was never wanted, just a "look at us, we touch, isn't it cool".


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## Haunted Hayrides 2008 (Sep 18, 2008)

sorry if i seem like an A-hole but the whole point of the thread was just to see if your haunted house or hayride allows this, that was it. My whole point was not to prove anyone right or wrong....sorry if i seem like this...but like i said i am not the owner so i have no say in the matter. 

Sumrtymm-it wasnt to say look at us we can touch....it was just a simple yes or no question.

lilly- Haunted Hayride at Dan Patch Stables

theres all the info u need.


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