# Monster In a Box "AKA" Kerature Krate



## CMGhost (Oct 14, 2007)

Now c'mon...you can't tease us with a thread like this and not include links and pictures...lol. We'd love to see a how to and pics...


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## evileyes (Oct 28, 2007)

c'mon pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee we would LOVE to see this


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

do you really need to ask


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## CROGLINVAMPIRE (Sep 21, 2006)

Okay buddy, I'm getting blue balls here...


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## CMGhost (Oct 14, 2007)

Just like my first high school girlfriend... what a tease!!

could've at least put the link in his post!!! lol


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## "Scare Seeker" (May 1, 2008)

I need a little help, i need a place where i can post a video/pics, this forum will not allow me to post a video/pics. I will post a link


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

photobucket.com


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## "Scare Seeker" (May 1, 2008)

*Monster In A Box "AKA" Kreature Krate*

Links for Monster In A Box "AKA" Kreature Krate

FILE0050.flv - Video - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

FILE0051.flv - Video - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

FILE0052.flv - Video - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm59/scareseeker/FILE0046.jpg
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm59/scareseeker/FILE0044.jpg
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm59/scareseeker/FILE0045.jpg
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm59/scareseeker/FILE0047.jpg
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm59/scareseeker/FILE0048.jpg
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm59/scareseeker/FILE0049.jpg
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm59/scareseeker/FILE0061.jpg


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## Garage-of-Evil (Feb 24, 2008)

Seems like the cylinder rods would get tweaked after enough cycles. Are they pushing it up directly or is there some other lever mech that the rods are acting against?

[edit]

Doh - forgot to say nice work. What did you use for control?


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## "Scare Seeker" (May 1, 2008)

The box is typical placed on a 4X8 sheet of plywood to give the pneumatic cylinder something to push against and the threaded portion of the rod is protected with a rubber cap. Here is a floor plan of the equipment used.

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm59/scareseeker/Krate_Floor_Plan.jpg


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

Wow, your prop is exactly what I want to try to build for my first pneumatic prop. It looks really good and providing the schematic helps me understand the controller and hook-ups. So far I have gotten dizzying amount of acronyms on this forum that I am starting to get a basic knowledge of (BooBox, VSA, relays, DMX...). Your post helped a lot.

My question: Now that you are done, would you improve any the controller choices? Since I am brand new to all this, I would like to start with the best system. I've been reading that getting the VSA program to drive DMX compatible items is the latest thing. Is that the direction I should go or is that overkill (or underkill)? I'm warning you, I barely understand what I am saying 

My prop will be a variation of the Creature Crate. It will be Dracula's coffin.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

if are willing to spend the money then i say dmx is the best way to go as it is expandable and will control just about anything, even disney is using it on there new displays and rides. once you have the basics ( dmx interface, vsa, exorcist for triggering, and a dimmer/relay or 2 ) when you add a new prop it would be as simple as adding another relay pack or light and programing it into vsa, also with dmx you can have cable runs as long as 1500ft. so in the long run it would prob be cheaper but the start up cost would be several hundred dollars so if you don't plan on expanding alot then you might be better off with just a controller on each prop. i will be going the vsa/dmx route this year ( funds permitting ) i will use it to control a few props, dmx 3-axis skull, fog machine, lighting. but again it all depends on what you want to use and who much you think you will use it's features


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

guitarist155 said:


> if are willing to spend the money then i say dmx is the best way to go as it is expandable and will control just about anything, even disney is using it on there new displays and rides. once you have the basics ( dmx interface, vsa, exorcist for triggering, and a dimmer/relay or 2 ) when you add a new prop it would be as simple as adding another relay pack or light and programing it into vsa, also with dmx you can have cable runs as long as 1500ft. so in the long run it would prob be cheaper but the start up cost would be several hundred dollars so if you don't plan on expanding alot then you might be better off with just a controller on each prop. i will be going the vsa/dmx route this year ( funds permitting ) i will use it to control a few props, dmx 3-axis skull, fog machine, lighting. but again it all depends on what you want to use and who much you think you will use it's features


I'd be willing to do DMX from the start. I want to build this first prop and then add on to it as I get more competent. Okay, as I understand it, this is how the system should be set-up:


​VSA loaded on laptop>Exorcist Trigger>DMX interface>Relay>fog machine, light, sound, & pneumatic solenoid. 


​DMX cabling to connect fog machine, etc. to the relay and also from the relay to the DMX interface.

Do I have that sequence correct? I feel like my brain is about to explode.....


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## "Scare Seeker" (May 1, 2008)

the controller board I used, the SD Keybanger found at Untitled Document records your routine and stores it, it is totally self contained. No software, no PC, the only 2 things coming out of the box is 1 power cord and 1 air line


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

"Scare Seeker" said:


> the controller board I used, the SD Keybanger found at Untitled Document records your routine and stores it, it is totally self contained. No software, no PC, the only 2 things coming out of the box is 1 power cord and 1 air line


For a complete newbie (_that would be me_) is a keybanger easy to program and connect?


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

Genexer said:


> I'd be willing to do DMX from the start. I want to build this first prop and then add on to it as I get more competent. Okay, as I understand it, this is how the system should be set-up:
> 
> 
> ​VSA loaded on laptop>Exorcist Trigger>DMX interface>Relay>fog machine, light, sound, & pneumatic solenoid.
> ...


 
to start with i would not use a dmx fog machine as they can be quite expensive, so it would go from a computer running VSA to the usb interface to the relay pack, the exorcist is used for triggering and connects through another usb port. the relay pack has 120v outlets on it ( usually 4 ) so you would connect the light to one channel, the solenoid valve for the cylinder to another, then you would have to get a 120v relay and use it like a switch for the fog machine. 

vsa $55
dmx interface $50
exorcist 299.00
dmx relay pack $70
dmx cable $20 
total $595 + prop parts, cylinder, solenoid. etc 


ouch


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

*OK, let's see if I'm starting to get this...*



guitarist155 said:


> to start with i would not use a dmx fog machine as they can be quite expensive, so it would go from a computer running VSA to the usb interface to the relay pack, the exorcist is used for triggering and connects through another usb port. the relay pack has 120v outlets on it ( usually 4 ) so you would connect the light to one channel, the solenoid valve for the cylinder to another, then you would have to get a 120v relay and use it like a switch for the fog machine.
> 
> vsa $55
> dmx interface $50
> ...


First off, thanks so much for helping me on this. OK, let's see if I'm starting to get this. Here's a really rough schematic I drew. Before I ask any more questions, do I have this right so far?

Edit: For the fog machine, Chauvet makes a timer adapter (DMX-3F: $30) for their non-DMX fog machines. I'm thinking if I couple that with their 650 Hurricane ($40), then that could be DMX controlled fogger?


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

almost, if you use a dmx fog machine then it would connect with dmx cable, so it would go from the interface dmx out to the relay dmx in then from the relay dmx out port to the dmx in on the fog machine/ fog machine controller. also you would have to check that dmx fog machine remote just to make sure it says it will work with that machine but yes you should be able to do that, and the sound would come from the computer sound card's audio out jack


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

ok i found the dmx adapter alittle cheaper and i use the site often, Buy Chauvet DMX3F DMX Converter for Fog Machines online at Musician's Friend and it says it will work with all chauvet foggers. i am looking at the 650 right now but it does not seem to get very good reviews as far as lasting so i am looking into some other ones for you


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

i would say add another $10 and get the fx-800 it seems to be getting better reviews and is a little more powerful, i am not a hugh fan of chauvet foggers but i could not find a dmx fogger near that price from another company so it looks like that is the way to go


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

i can't know for sure right now as i don't own one but that chauvet controller might work for other brands, but i will have to do a little more research on it and get back to you.


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

*You are such a help   *



guitarist155 said:


> almost, if you use a dmx fog machine then it would connect with dmx cable, so it would go from the interface dmx out to the relay dmx in then from the relay dmx out port to the dmx in on the fog machine/ fog machine controller. also you would have to check that dmx fog machine remote just to make sure it says it will work with that machine but yes you should be able to do that, and the sound would come from the computer sound card's audio out jack


You are helping me out so much. I've think I've reached the end of the internet with all my surfing. I feel like I am just starting to really get my head wrapped around this. Here's a few more questions, again, thanks:

The sound is coming out of the laptop audio out jack (_headphones..right?) _then into some amplfied speakers placed in the Monster in a Box. Rght?

Do they make solenoids that are 120V so I can easily plug it into the DMX-4 relay or do I need to get another do-hicky to convert the power to make the solenoid work?

Finally, I understand that the DMX adapted fogger power is plugged into the DMX-4 relay. Is there also a DMX cable from the fogger to the DMX-4 relay as well. Ditto for the DMX light, etc.?


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

guitarist155 said:


> i can't know for sure right now as i don't own one but that chauvet controller might work for other brands, but i will have to do a little more research on it and get back to you.


I hope you hear that you could use it with other foggers. I didn't realize that the Chauvet foggers are unreliable, but reading the reviews almost everyone was unhappy with them. Plus, it wouldn't be worth the bother if it craps out after a few hours.


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## JonnF3 (Feb 17, 2008)

Here is a video of mine:
http://webpages.charter.net/jonfarmer/monster.wmv


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

That was great! It uses all the components I'm trying to get set-up (_sound, fog, light, pneumatics_). How did you rig it?


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## JonnF3 (Feb 17, 2008)

This is the rough version. I plan to modify it a little to make it more simple.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

ok it would connect like this laptop - usb to interface- interface dmx out to relay pack dmx in- relay pack dmx out to fog machine dmx in. the exorcist would connect to the computer with another usb port. the light will not need to be dmx, all you would need is a normal 120v light connected to a plug on the relay pack ( the relay would switch it on and off ) you can get 120v solenoids at places like monsterguts.com the solenoid would also connect to a plug on the relay pack. then you would connect the relay pack power, fog machine power, and speaker power to a power strip. 

a few notes just in case, you will need an air compressor to run the pneumatics, your laptop must be running windows to operate vsa ( not mac ) 

also if you know how to solder or wire then you could just open up the fog machine remote and splice in a 120v relay so that you could trigger the fog machine by plugging in the relay, so you could plug the relay into the dmx relay pack and not need a dmx controlled fog machine.


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

*That helps clear the fog - heh heh....*



guitarist155 said:


> ok it would connect like this laptop - usb to interface- interface dmx out to relay pack dmx in- relay pack dmx out to fog machine dmx in. the exorcist would connect to the computer with another usb port. the light will not need to be dmx, all you would need is a normal 120v light connected to a plug on the relay pack ( the relay would switch it on and off ) you can get 120v solenoids at places like monsterguts.com the solenoid would also connect to a plug on the relay pack. then you would connect the relay pack power, fog machine power, and speaker power to a power strip.
> 
> a few notes just in case, you will need an air compressor to run the pneumatics, your laptop must be running windows to operate vsa ( not mac )
> 
> also if you know how to solder or wire then you could just open up the fog machine remote and splice in a 120v relay so that you could trigger the fog machine by plugging in the relay, so you could plug the relay into the dmx relay pack and not need a dmx controlled fog machine.


That makes a lot of sense. I did find a site (Garage-of-Evil) that had a tutorial on how to hack in a fogger remote. So, I have two options there. Alright, I do believe I now have all the information needed to be dangerous and get some parts ordered. I'll keep everyone up-to-date on my progress. I'll start a new thread so I won't hijack this one any longer.

Thanks mucho!


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

By the way, here's an updated schematic. I think I got this straight. Anyone, feel free to give me corrections or suggestions


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

JonnF3, thanks for the picture. I actually understand it  Between your picture and the excellent schematic ScareSeeker made, that will be the back-up plan in case I can't afford the DMX version. That $299 Exorcist price tag is crazy. Anyone else have a cheaper trigger alternative and still be able to use DMX?


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

there is a computer keyboard hack, there might be a how-to on here somewhere on how to do it. but it wouldn't be the same level of control as exorcist.
does any one have a how to on the vsa keyboard hack?


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

guitarist155 said:


> there is a computer keyboard hack, there might be a how-to on here somewhere on how to do it. but it wouldn't be the same level of control as exorcist.
> does any one have a how to on the vsa keyboard hack?


I think I found one. What do you think? Go to Misc. Props.....
http://www.deadmansinne.com


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

that looks like a very good how-to for the keyboard hack. it is pretty tedious but that is the only other way i know of triggering vsa, sadly with that method you also can only trigger one prop or one routine and with exorcist you could have 8 triggers. i am looking at getting one this year also and the cost makes me keep thinking there has to be another way, but i haven't found a cheaper way yet


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

guitarist155 said:


> that looks like a very good how-to for the keyboard hack. it is pretty tedious but that is the only other way i know of triggering vsa, sadly with that method you also can only trigger one prop or one routine and with exorcist you could have 8 triggers. i am looking at getting one this year also and the cost makes me keep thinking there has to be another way, but i haven't found a cheaper way yet


I agree, I'm seeing the one connection as a problem as well. Why bother going with the scalable DMX if I won't go with the scalable triggering mechanism? Looks like I will just have to bite the bullet.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

if your going to get the exorcist i would look at the skulltronix support forum and email them with any questions about it as triggering vsa and exorcist is where it gets out of my knowledge, they are very helpful and can tell you the features and limitations of the exorcist when using dmx.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

also, before i forget, you will need a dmx terminator at the end of the dmx chain so whatever the last dmx device is ( fog machine or relay pack ) you plug the terminator into it's dmx out port to end the signal chain, this tells the dmx signal that it is the end and helps reduce errors in the signal. here is an inexpensive one from a trusted site Hosa Technology | DMX 3 Pin Terminator | DMT-414 | B&H Photo


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

Thanks, I will go to the forum there and check it out. By the way, the hubby said it's a "go" for the Exorcist.  

I _was_ wondering if I needed to add the terminator. I had seen you mention that before in another thread. Thanks for all the help and I'll keep you posted on the progress. *I. can't. wait. to. start. building! *


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

i was just thinking about the dmx relay/dimmer pack. if you go with a dmx dimmer make sure it has a relay mode or program the dimmer so that it is on or off and not in the middle, you don't want to try and dim a solenoid or a fog machine lol  have fun with the build, we are all here for any questions you might have.


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## "Scare Seeker" (May 1, 2008)

I am concerned about the postings ive read.....especially by Genexer.....i saw that the DMX and/or exorcist is mentioned to run a monster in a box. It sounds as if the project is going to be more expensive then it has to be. The controller board i used does not require a computer or software, and can be activated by an IR sensor which i also use. If you need any info. on how to wire anything, i have it all, including wiring a relay into a fog machine trigger. I used a Gemmy 110v trigger. I can also provide info. on how to wire a 110v light to the controller board. If you have any questions, dont hesitate to ask. Especially if it saves you some bucks.


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## guitarist155 (Sep 25, 2007)

"Scare Seeker" said:


> I am concerned about the postings ive read.....especially by Genexer.....i saw that the DMX and/or exorcist is mentioned to run a monster in a box. It sounds as if the project is going to be more expensive then it has to be. The controller board i used does not require a computer or software, and can be activated by an IR sensor which i also use. If you need any info. on how to wire anything, i have it all, including wiring a relay into a fog machine trigger. I used a Gemmy 110v trigger. I can also provide info. on how to wire a 110v light to the controller board. If you have any questions, dont hesitate to ask. Especially if it saves you some bucks.


 sorry to have hijacked the thread and didn't mean to scare away prop builders, I will be posting this in another thread i just keep getting stuck in this one lol. 

i agree it has an expensive start-up cost but the system was really designed for whole haunt control and expandability, not for just one prop, the stand alone would be the way to go if you don't see yourself expanding your props past one or two or are scared off by the complexity of the bigger systems. 

i also am outfitting my fog remotes with relays, it seems to be the most cost effective way to trigger them unless you have a dmx capable one.

the reason i am using vsa/dmx/exorcist is i plan to use dmx lighting, a 3 axis skull, multiple foggers, and numerous pneumatic props this year. the computer will be able to be in control of all of it and let them all interact. also with one button i can set the whole haunt to only trigger the creepy things and not the scary props for the little ones.


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## kendallizm (Feb 16, 2008)

*monster-in-a-box with wiper motor?*

I have a toe pincher coffin and a 12 volt wiper motor, does anyone know where to find plans for a monster-in-box using a wiper motor?
kendallizm


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## Regor (Sep 8, 2007)

Try this one
http://www.cindybob.com/halloween/mib/


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

"Scare Seeker" said:


> I am concerned about the postings I've read.....especially by Genexer.....i saw that the DMX and/or exorcist is mentioned to run a monster in a box. It sounds as if the project is going to be more expensive then it has to be. The controller board i used does not require a computer or software, and can be activated by an IR sensor which i also use. If you need any info. on how to wire anything, i have it all, including wiring a relay into a fog machine trigger. I used a Gemmy 110v trigger. I can also provide info. on how to wire a 110v light to the controller board. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. Especially if it saves you some bucks.


Yeah, terribly sorry about hijacking your thread. Now that I'm becoming more fluent on the different controlling mechanisms I see the merits of keeping it simple. I had a difficult time deciding on the stand alone version of the MIB or the comprehensive DMX/VSA controlled MIB. I decided to take the plunge and try the DMX/VSA route. I hope to add more and more elements to my haunt so I'm hoping in the long run, this will work out for me.

Man, I hope I don't regret this.....Building starts tomorrow.


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## Loogaroo (Oct 19, 2008)

this is all so beyond me. I can build a crate sure. I can put in a light ok I may be abvle to even make it move and rattle. To hook it all up so it has timed lights, fogs, thumps and bumps? oh hell no. Love to think I could but I dont think so.


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