# A New Spin on the Vortex Trash Can Fog Chiller Design . . .



## Frankie's Girl (Aug 27, 2007)

Welcome to the forum!

I really like this design - seeing a slightly new take is always welcome. Looking forward to seeing some test fog using this chiller. 🎃


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## Kairayn (Mar 14, 2018)

Really looking forward to see how this works out.


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## theric85 (Feb 23, 2014)

neat concept! hope it works out, if not that should keep the beverages nice and cold. lol


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## Lawdaddy21 (Aug 21, 2020)

Well unfortunately I’ve had a bit of a setback. Until this weekend I’d only tested it (i) without ice for flow, and (ii) with a pound or two from my home freezer just for funsies. My biggest concern with the PVC manifold and tubes has been that I will need a fan to push the air through the system, but the initial tests seemed to have plenty of flow. Well, packing it with 40 pounds of ice and running it for a couple hours is a very different story. I’ve attached a photo showing what 40 pounds of ice (4 bags) looks like in the can just for reference, as well as the aftermath of my session. 

The first shot of fog or two from the fog machine seemed to be going OK, though the wind was blowing away the fog as quick as I could spit it out. It wasn’t particularly windy, but apparently just enough to cause an issue. In any event, it seemed like the amount of air coming out of the fogger became less and less. I thought maybe the wind was hitting it in gusts and that if I just let it go for awhile I might see a change. Eventually nothing was coming out of it at all. I had my suspicions, and this morning I took a closer look to confirm.

The short version is that the PVC manifold is a bottleneck (i.e. it slows down the air as the air is split into the 7 smaller outlets). Thus, the air coming out of the fogger was continually pounding this spot, which got hotter and hotter. Eventually the manifold began to melt (I’m not sure that the material is as heat resistant as the PVC pipe), and the weight of the trash can with ice on top began to close off the manifold. The more it was closed off, the hotter it became in that spot, the more things warped, and the more restricted the airflow became. It was a nasty cycle. 

So do I scrap the design altogether? No, I think I can actually make this much simpler. I’m going to try just shooting the fog under the metal can. I was originally concerned about the lip on the bottom of the metal can restricting airflow, but I think that’s probably more of a theoretical problem than an actual problem. I’ll have to pick up a few PVC fittings in the next day or so, but hopefully I can have another test sometime this week. The basic design will remain the same, though the build complexity will go away since I’ll be eliminating the smaller tubes and specialty fitting.


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## 66539 (Feb 20, 2016)

I sure hope you find a successful way of making your idea work. Mostly because I would like to see if there's a way to successfully split the output of a fog machine into two different areas, each with a different flow. Specifically, We have a cauldron creep. I would love to be able to have his cauldron fogging up quite a bit of stuff, and maybe just a little bit of fog "smoke" rising up front the fire pit. As of yet, I've not stumbled onto a good answer to how to pull that off, but I'm sure it's out there.


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## Lawdaddy21 (Aug 21, 2020)

chubstuff said:


> I sure hope you find a successful way of making your idea work. Mostly because I would like to see if there's a way to successfully split the output of a fog machine into two different areas, each with a different flow. Specifically, We have a cauldron creep. I would love to be able to have his cauldron fogging up quite a bit of stuff, and maybe just a little bit of fog "smoke" rising up front the fire pit. As of yet, I've not stumbled onto a good answer to how to pull that off, but I'm sure it's out there.


For your purposes I actually think that might be easier. Really I think my problems here were that (a) the manifold I used was a true bottleneck (as opposed to something just siphoning off a little bit of the fog like I think you're looking to do), and (b) I don't believe the manifold is made out of the same material and thus was not as heat resistant as a true PVC fitting. Even the PVC pipe (which has a core of cellular foam material) isn't as tough as the PVC fittings. Though the foam core PVC and manifold melted and warped, the PVC coupling looked brand new. I would think that you could likely use something like a T with a reducer on the (for lack of a better term) "side outlet." If you're using 2" PVC for example, maybe a 2"x2"x1/2" T. The flow through the T would be largely unobstructed, but a little would escape through that 1/2" opening on the side and you could pipe it down to your fire pit. If that didn't work, you could try a 2"x2"x3/4" T. Eventually you'd get the right flow for what you want, and you wouldn't have the same heat issue that I ran into (since you're not bottlenecking, you're using a true PVC fitting, and PVC pipe that size is solid core rather than foam core). I hope that helps.


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## Lawdaddy21 (Aug 21, 2020)

Here's the much simpler version that I've come up with. I plan to get some ice tomorrow and do another test run. This is very easily duplicated by anyone with standard pieces available at Lowe's/Home Depot, and it maintains the same basic functionality as the original design. It's just a lot more free-flowing. TBD on performance. Please ignore my feet in the pics . . .


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## 66539 (Feb 20, 2016)

Lawdaddy21 said:


> Here's the much simpler version that I've come up with... Please ignore my feet in the pics . . .


I'm glad that I'm not the only one who creates tutorials where we show up in the photos or video unintentionally. I have a video that will never be seen by the world on how I painted our mausoleums, because every time I would make a mistake, I would grab my t-shirt and dab up the paint. I didn't think anything but the t-shirt was going to show, but I neglected to pay attention to the fact that my t-shirts cover quite a large belly that never failed to slip into frame. Oh well, the before and after photos looked nice.  

Thanks for posting the new and improved approach; feet and all.


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## JW Halloween (Sep 30, 2012)

Bringing the pipe straight in is certainly better than the manifold you had before (too much air resistance) but I still think you are going to have issues. I think that there is so much air space between the inner and outer cans that it will be difficult to create enough pressure to force the fog through the ice.


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## Lawdaddy21 (Aug 21, 2020)

JW Halloween said:


> Bringing the pipe straight in is certainly better than the manifold you had before (too much air resistance) but I still think you are going to have issues. I think that there is so much air space between the inner and outer cans that it will be difficult to create enough pressure to force the fog through the ice.


That's my only fear with this setup. It certainly wouldn't work with a small fogger, though I'm hoping mine can handle it. If not, I might try a fan to help. I planned to test it out tonight but it's rainy and windy. Tomorrow?


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## 66539 (Feb 20, 2016)

Lawdaddy21 said:


> That's my only fear with this setup. It certainly wouldn't work with a small fogger, though I'm hoping mine can handle it. If not, I might try a fan to help. I planned to test it out tonight but it's rainy and windy. Tomorrow?


If your normal Halloween weather is rainy and windy, it might actually be best to test your fogger on a similar night. Our weather is usually quite rainy. Every time I watch a fogger review or test online, they seem to show it off when the weather is great. At worst, the weather might be a bit windy, but when things don't go right, they blame that wind. So, this year might be our first year for foggers, and we tend to experiment on rainy and windy days to see if they're even worth the effort in our normal weather conditions. It pays to take into consideration what you're actually going to be going up against come Halloween. Sometimes even the coolest of props isn't viable if it can't hold up to what Mother Nature is going to throw at you as her Halloween trick.


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## Lawdaddy21 (Aug 21, 2020)

Well, I had an opportunity to test it out this morning and I have pretty mixed feelings. I went with 40 pounds of ice again (which fills the can better when the ice comes from a freezer that's working properly rather than the broken machine at the gas station). I'm actually getting a decent amount of output from the chiller. It may be less than some, but I don't think it's a huge difference. I'm sure I could improve upon this by sealing the lid, sealing the holes in the can, adding a booster fan, mixing in some dry ice, etc. But, the real problem I have is (to your point chubstuff) the elements. With 9 mph winds I couldn't keep fog on the ground. I watched a couple of the videos from the best vortex builds, and from what I can see not a blade of grass nor a leaf on a tree is moving. Even when there's a lot of fog on the ground I don't see any meaningful wind blowing it around. Or, they are testing indoors. I suspect I'd fare alright in the same conditions, but what will Halloween night actually look like? I have added a few pictures below and some videos. I'm not really sure where to go from here. Good 'nuf, use some dry ice in the can Halloween night along with the regular ice, and hope for favorable weather?


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## 66539 (Feb 20, 2016)

A few things that might help keep your fog where you want it. One is to spray your ground area with water before using the fogger. A few people have mentioned that wet grass and other surfaces tend to keep the fog on the ground longer. (Most likely because it lowers the ambient temperatures) For us, rain will most likely accomplish that part of the mix. The other is using a piece of corrugated drain pipe, or other flexible pipe with holes along the length, to extend the reach of your fog beyond the initial outlet. If you have a way to hide it, it seems to work to get the fog out and on the ground in more areas before the wind blows it away. Plus, you can insert bottles of frozen water in them to help keep the fog chilled as it winds along the path inside the pipe. You certainly have lots of fog. Now it's just a matter of trying to convince it to stick around.


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## JW Halloween (Sep 30, 2012)

Looks like it works pretty well to me! Use the more expensive "low lying" fog and hope that there is not much wind.


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## PairaDize (Jun 21, 2020)

I don't know where you live, but if your weather is anything like what I can expect here in East Tennessee, we almost ALWAYS have a breeze of some sort. And it never blows in the direction we want, LOL. After battling the elements over the years, in our desire to get that perfect graveyard fog, after much trial and error, we have come to the conclusion to just use multiple fog machines. LOL. So we have 4 of different wattages. One 1250w, one 1000w and two 700w. They all run through the corrugated drain pipes. We line the pipes with frozen bottles of water. (takes about a case of water bottles per pipe). We don't use fans and don't need a chiller - the frozen bottles of water work fine. We can use all four or pick and choose. We do set all four up every year and have them ready to go no matter what the wind chooses. 

I dunno... could spend forever trying all the different variations. This one works pretty good for me so I'm happy.


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## Lawdaddy21 (Aug 21, 2020)

Thanks everyone for the additional tips and suggestions. I'm kicking around the idea (since I already have extra foggers) of building a second chiller. That way I can have 2 foggers running simultaneously to try and cover more area (plus it would give me an excuse to build the 2nd one following the Vortex design so that I have a way to compare performance vs. my modified design). I'm thinking I could also run the sprinklers a bit on Halloween, then mix in some dry ice, and use the low lying fog fluid. That should give me the best chance short of piping fog to various areas. 

I do like the idea of the pipes and ice bottles to get the fog where you want it. I'm thinking that may be something I consider for next year (once I have a better idea of my trials and errors/where I want the fog to actually be). 

My other to-do items include the Axworthy Ghost and hollusion screen/projection near the road. I may post progress on those too as I'm farther along.


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## Reynard (Jun 27, 2020)

Lawdaddy21 said:


> Thanks everyone for the additional tips and suggestions. I'm kicking around the idea (since I already have extra foggers) of building a second chiller. That way I can have 2 foggers running simultaneously to try and cover more area (plus it would give me an excuse to build the 2nd one following the Vortex design so that I have a way to compare performance vs. my modified design).


I've done this for years _ was able to buy 3 cheap foggers initially, and set them up with corrugated pipe to different spot in the lawn display. It helped that I was able to get timers for each of them


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## 66539 (Feb 20, 2016)

Lawdaddy21 said:


> My other to-do items include the Axworthy Ghost and hollusion screen/projection near the road. I may post progress on those too as I'm farther along.


Well, no one can say that you don't like challenges. Axworthy ghosts have a reputation for being one of the most finicky, difficult Halloween props out there. Even the folks on YouTube who show off their success seem to always start off with an advisory that they're tough to work with. But they are sooooo cool looking, we certainly see the allure.


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