# Halloween Haters



## Berserker (Sep 4, 2012)

I am not religious in any sense of the word. I do believe there is a spirit world but it is not represented as Heaven or Hell (b/c let's be honest, NO ONE knows). Anyway, I used to work with this die hard christian monster; the type of dude that is hypocritical about his beliefs and will judge everyone for theirs.
So 2 years ago when I was still working there, everyone was asking me about my Halloween plans and we were all getting excited; sharing stories, haunts, pumpkin beer  etc.

The cutie intern, Heather, had to work with this freak that day and so she asked him about his Halloween plans and he says with a deadpan face:

"Ugh....it's a Satanic holiday"

After she told me that I was planning on his education lesson so he came over to my desk hence I took the moment to briefly explain Halloween or All Hallow's Eve was actually called Samhain, the Celtic holiday where the barrier b/w living and the spirit world is so thin the transfer b/w worlds was easy. I explained it was about welcoming your passed loved ones into your home for another visit...basically celebrating their lives.

He looked at me and said "oh that's fine, and I don't judge but it is an evil day"

I gave in and said yep, and I fully celebrate the evil. He had no response.
What a douche!
Any experience with this?


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## StanFam3 (Oct 5, 2009)

I have too many experiences JUST LIKE THIS to describe them all.

I live in the deep, rural south. I am surrounded by closed / small minded folks who fear anything different. 

The older I become, the less patience I have with bigotry, ignorance, and sheer stupidity. Especially because of my own personal spiritual beliefs/practices.


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## Skeletoncrew (Oct 10, 2013)

I live in a really small non progressive southern town in the Bible Belt .. Yes, I've had lots of experience with this.  The final and last time I threw a halloween party for the girls, I had one mother totally freak out and not let her kids come over anymore.  Even though it was a VERY tame party, with no religion threatening practices or ideas and EVERYTHING had been talked about prior with all the parents. Never threw another party, just wasn't worth the angst and drama! I could tell a lot of stories .. Like the lady that followed me a round the dollar store preaching, I mean serious hell fire and damnation preaching to me because I had a lot of Halloween items in my in my cart. I finally was rude to her to get her to leave off. I grew up in upstate NY, but have lived here for the last 17 years .. It's different in a lot of views.


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## StanFam3 (Oct 5, 2009)

Skeletoncrew said:


> I live in a really small non progressive southern town in the Bible Belt .. Yes, I've had lots of experience with this.  The final and last time I threw a halloween party for the girls, I had one mother totally freak out and not let her kids come over anymore.  Even though it was a VERY tame party, with no religion threatening practices or ideas and EVERYTHING had been talked about prior with all the parents. Never threw another party, just wasn't worth the angst and drama! I could tell a lot of stories .. Like the lady that followed me a round the dollar store preaching to me because I had a lot of Halloween items in my in my cart. I finally was rude to her to get her to leave off. I grew up in upstate NY, but have lived here for the last 17 years .. It's different in a lot of views.


Sounds like rural S GA to me!!!!!!!!!!

I cannot even remember how many times I've been preached too. Blegh.


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## Skeletoncrew (Oct 10, 2013)

I love NC, it's a beautiful state. I love the mountains and the coast, I love my house .. We spent years renovating it. If I could pick it up and plop it in a different town however, I'd do it in a heartbeat.  The people here are close minded, backwards and ignorant, not all NC is like this. I don't want to move the kids because they are doing so well in school, but once all the girls graduate, we are out of here.  Maybe live on a boat at the coast, we keep ours in beaufort.They have huge pirate festivals every year, lots of 5K and 10K, more progressive and artsy environment .. Much more my speed.


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## StanFam3 (Oct 5, 2009)

Skeletoncrew said:


> I love NC, it's a beautiful state. I love the mountains and the coast, I love my house .. We spent years renovating it. If I could pick it up and plop it in a different town however, I'd do it in a heartbeat.  The people here are close minded and ignorant. Not all NC is like this, don't want to move the kids because they are doing so well in school, but once all the girls graduate, we are out of here.  Maybe live on a boat at the coast, we keep ours in beaufort, they have huge pirate festivals every year .. Much more my speed.


I feel the same way. I love our home too. And I like Georgia geographically.... N GA is more my speed. I lived in the ATL area for 20+ years before moving back to my hometown.


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## annamarykahn (Oct 4, 2009)

"sheeple", although isn't officially a word, describes these and many others that don't think for themselves and follow the herd ...

amk


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## UnOrthodOx (Apr 24, 2007)

I live in Utah, and am Mormon. Despite the fact that the LDS church has no official position on the holiday, there are those members that do. I've had neighbors so adamantly opposed that they've tried to sue me and get police involved. 

I've had groups in the church specifically organize the Trunk or Treat as the safe alternative to trick or treating. 

Attitudes started changing when I changed. We started a harvest party in 2010, not specifically to be an alternate to a "Halloween party", but our THEME that year was "The Harvest". It's become the basis of our yard since. 

Neighborhood kids come carve pumpkins. There's really not much more to it than that. I light everything at dusk, but the music is not going, the costumes aren't on, and kids are just over helping make the display, it's truly a community undertaking. 

The "Halloween is evil" people have SEEN that, and understand the community building aspect. The combative neighbors come party now (and leave town on halloween, but hey, take what I can get), the trunk or treat is moved a week before halloween, because they've now HELPED with the display at the 'harvest party' they want to see it on Halloween too. 

In fact, I was at a costume donation drive giveaway the other night organized by the church the other night, and the organizers were bemoaning how few in the community were coming by. They asked how it is I manage to get so many non-members over to my party each year. The answer is simple. Halloween is not about religion, my party is not at the church. If you want to reach out to the community at large in Utah, you have to step away from the church building.


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## StanFam3 (Oct 5, 2009)

UnOrthodOx said:


> I live in Utah, and am Mormon. Despite the fact that the LDS church has no official position on the holiday, there are those members that do. I've had neighbors so adamantly opposed that they've tried to sue me and get police involved.
> 
> I've had groups in the church specifically organize the Trunk or Treat as the safe alternative to trick or treating.
> 
> ...


Good for you! Seems you've found a way to walk the walk and talk the talk. I hope your Halloween Harvest Party goes well this year!


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## Skeletoncrew (Oct 10, 2013)

StanFam3 said:


> I feel the same way. I love our home too. And I like Georgia geographically.... N GA is more my speed. I lived in the ATL area for 20+ years before moving back to my hometown.


I really understand this! When we go to other parts of NC it's much different. 

I will say not everything has been bad, really .. A lot of people are very happy to see the house get decorated each year. People start asking when we are going to decorate when the time gets near. I can't tell you how many mom's with younger kids tell me they have to drive by the house every single day with the kids .. We say the spider has groupies with the tot agers.  On halloween night we draw kids from all over and parents tell me the kids have been dying to come by the house in person .. so in my mind the good out weighs the bad.  

I occasionally will get a rude or stray comment. Had one very frail elderly lady stop the day we were putting stuff up, she said you have such a beautiful house. Of course I said thank you .. Then she went on to drop .. it was too bad I put 'that wickedness' all over it. I smiled and said .. Have a nice day too and walked away. Lol .. But then the next weekend when I was out grocery shopping my youngest called me to tell me we had a yard full of elderly women, laughing, asking questions and taking pics with the skeletons.  So, all in all .. There are bitter people out there, it's their choice .. There are a lot of good too.


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## Tyrant (Aug 19, 2013)

I get this all the time. From my own tribe, no less. I'm Christian and other Christians just don't understand how I can participate in something so "dark" and "evil". I explain to them all the time that Halloween is like anything else in that it is what one makes it to be. I often go into Halloween's history when/if they listen, and never hesitate to pull up all of the Pagan symbolism and influence in Christmas and Easter. That alone usually shuts them down. 

If they want to live a fearful life of avoidance, so be it. I'll be out and busy having fun like most people come October 31st.


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## Madame Leota (Sep 19, 2005)

This is not the way it has always been. I grew up in a small predominately southern Baptist town in the 60s and 70s. Every church had Halloween parties with costumes, apple bobs, hayrides, the whole bit. We dressed as witches, ghosts, devils, whatever and no one thought a thing about it. They were intelligent people that knew it was nothing more than dressing up and having fun. Then along came the 80s and 90s and something changed. Suddenly everything was "satanic". My older sister got caught up in the panic and her poor kids never once got to participate in Halloween. I am happy to say though, as adults, they whole-heartedly enjoy the holiday with their own kids. 
I don't see nearly as much of the anti-Halloween stuff anymore but there are still a few closed minded ignorant ones that want to ruin it for everybody else. Always will be, that's just life.


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## StanFam3 (Oct 5, 2009)

Madame Leota said:


> This is not the way it has always been. I grew up in a small predominately southern Baptist town in the 60s and 70s. Every church had Halloween parties with costumes, apple bobs, hayrides, the whole bit. We dressed as witches, ghosts, devils, whatever and no one thought a thing about it. They were intelligent people that knew it was nothing more than dressing up and having fun. Then along came the 80s and 90s and something changed. Suddenly everything was "satanic". My older sister got caught up in the panic and her poor kids never once got to participate in Halloween. I am happy to say though, as adults, they whole-heartedly enjoy the holiday with their own kids.
> I don't see nearly as much of the anti-Halloween stuff anymore but there are still a few closed minded ignorant ones that want to ruin it for everybody else. Always will be, that's just life.


 I agree with you fully!

The same town I grew up in the 70's is where I live now. My childhood did not have the satanic hysteria that the 80's brought. Unfortunately, we still have a lot of this here. 

So few houses here decorated AT ALL. Not even a wreath! Nothing.


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## Pumpkinhead625 (Oct 12, 2009)

I'm a Christian myself, but these people are just ignorant extremists. There's no sense in trying to reasonably argue with them, because they won't see reason. I've never been lectured, chided, or preached to about my Halloween display, but if it ever happens, I kind of look forward to it. I have a few select replies on hand for the person who tells me* "Halloween is evil":*

..."Yes, but it's _HAPPY_ evil."

..."It's not all _that_ bad. We stopped doing ritualistic human sacrifices in the '80s."

..."Yeah, but a bagful of free candy more than compensates for the evilness."

..."Well, if that's true, then you better leave me alone, because if you say one more word to me about it, I might just get ticked off enough to unleash my evil, demonic minions to torment you."


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## Berserker (Sep 4, 2012)

Pumpkinhead625 said:


> I'm a Christian myself, but these people are just ignorant extremists. There's no sense in trying to reasonably argue with them, because they won't see reason. I've never been lectured, chided, or preached to about my Halloween display, but if it ever happens, I kind of look forward to it. I have a few select replies on hand for the person who tells me* "Halloween is evil":*
> 
> ..."Yes, but it's _HAPPY_ evil."
> 
> ...


That's great.


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## pyrosaxplayer (Sep 12, 2012)

Pumpkinhead625 said:


> I'm a Christian myself, but these people are just ignorant extremists. There's no sense in trying to reasonably argue with them, because they won't see reason. I've never been lectured, chided, or preached to about my Halloween display, but if it ever happens, I kind of look forward to it. I have a few select replies on hand for the person who tells me* "Halloween is evil":*
> 
> ..."Yes, but it's _HAPPY_ evil."
> 
> ...


Love It! I will use them and give you credit  haha


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## StanFam3 (Oct 5, 2009)

Pumpkinhead625 said:


> I'm a Christian myself, but these people are just ignorant extremists. There's no sense in trying to reasonably argue with them, because they won't see reason. I've never been lectured, chided, or preached to about my Halloween display, but if it ever happens, I kind of look forward to it. I have a few select replies on hand for the person who tells me* "Halloween is evil":*
> 
> ..."Yes, but it's _HAPPY_ evil."
> 
> ...


LOLOL!!! Love them!

Unfortunately, at least in my area, I have a lot more of the ignorant extremists than the educated believers (like yourself!).


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## xredge (Oct 24, 2012)

During my teen years late 70s early 80s our church used to do haunted houses, usually I did most of the planning and ran them. We would switched between the church I went to and the other church that our Minister preached at as we had our youth groups combined. I really don't mention to much about it at the Church I go to now just to avoid the hassle, some know about it though. I don't usually do much at home as where I live don't have many kids lucky to top out at 30, but do a big campground one.


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## ironmaiden (Aug 5, 2003)

Grew up in Southern California and been living now in New Hampshire for many years. I have never encountered anything like this.
From one coast to the other, I can say I have had the best of both worlds


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## texmaster (Aug 25, 2008)

In Dallas, never met anyone who called Halloween evil but I know others here are telling the truth when they say they've experienced it.

Its sad since I've seen both political sides come out against Halloween for stupid but different reasons.


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## ironmaiden (Aug 5, 2003)

texmaster said:


> In Dallas, never met anyone who called Halloween evil but I know others here are telling the truth when they say they've experienced it.
> 
> Its sad since I've seen both political sides come out against Halloween for stupid but different reasons.



Thank you for pointing that out. Yes, it is BOTH political philosophies that have been guilty of this. Far too often it becomes a one sided discussion on these forums


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## larry (Apr 5, 2002)

Please note that I changed the title and removed a line from the original message. It is against the rules to attack a group of people. It is not fair to group all of a religion together. There are die-hard Christian fans that love Halloween as well as some that don't. 

Great topic, but please do not generalize or attack groups. Thanks.


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## kmeyer1313 (Jan 25, 2012)

My MIL - may she rest in peace - was born Jewish but became a "completed Jew" later in life (I think what she believes is along the lines of Jews For Jesus, but I could be wrong), & she was on the Halloween-is-the-devil's-holiday bandwagon too. For peace & quiet (& because she knew my husband would take my side on this), she finally stopped bringing up Halloween at all around that time of year. Luckily I haven't come across a lot of that down here in South Florida, but I know it's out there. I know where my mother lives up in SC, it's kinda mixed depending on the town - like in her little town, almost no one decorates for Halloween (& they're out in the middle of nowhere, so I know she doesn't get any TOTers), but the next big town over has several activities & decorations are more prominent.


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## ooojen (Sep 4, 2014)

Certainly not all Christians are anti-fun, or bigoted. And people who chose not to celebrate Halloween _for whatever reasons_, are entitled to their own choice, just as those of us who celebrate are entitled to ours.

MN isn't perfect (and the winters can be killer) but overall it's a nice place to live. I've never once had anyone lecture me about the evils of Halloween. The only time it has come up at all in my world is when our older DD was around 8 or 9, and one friend couldn't come to a Halloween party here. Her mom said they'd talked it over at home, and felt that it wasn't something their family wanted to be involved with. That was ok. I respect their decision, the same way I expect others to respect my decision to decorate and enjoy the holiday. 
There's definitely something very wrong with accosting someone else about the merchandise in their shopping cart, but there's nothing wrong with stating a personal choice not to celebrate -- especially when someone asks. Live and let live.


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## CaliforniaMelanie (Sep 8, 2008)

EDIT: I'm not discounting anyone else's experiences and I fully believe them. Just re-read my post and thought it might sound as if I'm taking this light-heartedly against others' experiences.

**

I know a few people who hate Halloween just because it's scary. I think sometimes (your pastor excepted, OP), it's more that, and the religion thing is just thrown in there to justify that dislike.

IMO, lots of people hate at least one holiday. I dislike Valentine's Day. I think it's the dumbest holiday ever (and I'm sure tons of people would and do disagree with me!). As a child, unless your school plays by the nice-nice rules where you can't bring in a valentine unless you're bringing one for everybody, if you're the one kit who only gets a few, or none, you feel like nobody likes you. As an adult, you sort of have to do it or else you "just don't love" your partner - that feels like emotional blackmail to me!

My husband and I give each other chocolates and a present, but it feels like that above "if not, we don't love each other" thing. And our kids get candies because they expect candies and if you "skip" a holiday, well, God forbid, LOL.

Those probably all sound like stupid reasons, to someone who loves Valentine's Day.

Now as far as Satanism specifically, well sure that's historically inaccurate, though everyone's definition of "Satanism" is different. Some people think of all "pagan" religions as Satanic. And some people believe that you can be worshiping Satan without knowing it, by indulging in various activities. I don't usually try to argue that one. People want to hold onto their beliefs. I hope that's not the wimpy way out, but really you'll never convince some people. They see blood and they see ghosts and monsters and they think "Satanic." There's probably no changing such people.

I do spread awareness if someone asks me about it, though that's pretty rare.

But I know I'll never convince Halloween haters not to hate Halloween. I wouldn't want them pushing the virtues of Valentine's Day in my face either, so I afford them that same courtesy. It doesn't bother me; I have plenty of people who do love Halloween to celebrate with!

As for getting flack in stores and the like...my son is autistic and intellectually delayed. I can't tell you how many times "helpful" people have approached me to tell me just how bad a mother I must be in order for my son to "behave that way." (My son has an IQ of 80, for Cheese's sake!) I even had one woman scream (I literally mean scream) at me in the produce aisle, "You call yourself a mother?" because my son, who is really quite big physically (6" shorter than I am at age 11), was crying like, well, a person with an IQ of 80. I'm used to getting shyte in stores. I have a thick skin.


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## CaliforniaMelanie (Sep 8, 2008)

Tyrant said:


> I get this all the time. From my own tribe, no less. I'm Christian and other Christians just don't understand how I can participate in something so "dark" and "evil"..


Come to Los Angeles (well, the L.A. 'burbs is where I'm speaking from). Every single one of my friends is Christian, and every single one loves Halloween.


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## GodOfThunder (Aug 26, 2011)

I had a recent interaction with a friend of mine--really a close friend but we've grown apart over the past several years unfortunately, just part of life. 

No religious basis about it, he just doesn't like Halloween. I've invited him and, later, he and his wife, to our party. No response or a decline EVERY time. They had a baby at end of last year, so I get it. But this year I just didn't invite him.

So I saw him at a golf tournament two weeks ago and he asked if we were doing the party. I said yes. He said he hadn't seen it. I told him flat out, "Dude, you've told me 800 times you hate Halloween. You have never come to our party once. I dropped you off the list. You're welcome to come but come on man..."

Nothing more was said on the matter. At this point, I only want people who WANT to come. For those who do, it's an epic event and they love it. For those who jerk me around about it, i don't have time to micromanage a sub list of people who don't RSVP or otherwise just decline every year. Moving on....


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## Scatterbrains (Nov 16, 2008)

I live in Utah, and am not Mormon, but I am surrounded by them and I've never had a bad experience. As a matter of fact, this is probably one of the most pro-Halloween states around. 

They do have trunk or treats, but I don't think that's tied to Religion, more for safety and there are a couple of non-LDS churches that have Harvest parties...good for them as the kids still get to dress up and get candy, just on different terms.

I mentioned this in a different thread yet (haven't see the replies, if any) but we need to quit turning this into an us against them holiday.


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## Countess No (Sep 20, 2014)

We just spent a whole day helping our pastor clean out his barn and powerwash the floor, hang up lights, and decorate for our church's halloween party.

Halloween party; not harvest or fall festival. Our church celebrates halloween. We have band at the party, too. It is so so fun. We also praise God while we celebrate together in fellowship.

If someone doesn't celebrate halloween, it doesn't make them ignorant or bigoted. They just have a different life style, world view, or opinion than we do. 

I am a huge halloween fan, and think people who choose not to celebrate for whatever reason sure are missing out on a great night of fun. But people are allowed to choose how they live and I don't need to call them names. To each his own. And that includes people who have spiritual practices that believe halloween is "evil." I don't think it is, but they have a right to feel that way. It doesn't affect my halloween fun if other people choose to dislike the holiday.


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## Loogaroo (Oct 19, 2008)

It is constant. People hear I got married on Halloween and...
OH SO YOUR A SATAN WORSHIPER!
or such other garbage.
My direct boss has gotten worse through the years. This year he built the apple display into a giant cross to :counter all the evil demonic garbage around"


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## ironmaiden (Aug 5, 2003)

Scatterbrains said:


> I live in Utah, and am not Mormon, but I am surrounded by them and I've never had a bad experience. As a matter of fact, this is probably one of the most pro-Halloween states around.
> 
> They do have trunk or treats, but I don't think that's tied to Religion, more for safety and there are a couple of non-LDS churches that have Harvest parties...good for them as the kids still get to dress up and get candy, just on different terms.
> 
> I mentioned this in a different thread yet (haven't see the replies, if any) but we need to quit turning this into an us against them holiday.



Growing up in So Cal I went to school with many Mormons and they all dressed up for and celebrated Halloween. My own cousin became a convert and she celebrates too (and sent me a Grandin Road gift card for my Bday so I could pick out a Halloween item  )

Some of the towns here in NH also do a "Trunk n Treat" but it is due to safety concerns. Like my mom's town is very small, rural and the homes are so scattered that going door-to-door is impractical unless it is in one of the few and newer subdivisions


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## The Real Joker (Sep 8, 2008)

Well being originally from New Jersey, growing up in the 70's (small town in Ocean County)
nearly everyone did something for Halloween and we'd go out trick-or-treating until about 9PM!
In elementary school, dressing up for Halloween was pretty much mandatory with the yearly
party .... Even the Italian-American Club would have a big shindig every year, as well!
And nobody said a negative thing about the holiday in general. But living in S. Florida for the 
past 20-odd years, never really had anyone say anything negative about me decorating my
house or apartment and most of the neighbors LOVED the decorations, even though only a
handful of houses in my new neighborhood decorate, but anyway. I still LOVE the day no matter what.


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## Oak Lane Cemetery (Sep 5, 2011)

Last year we had a car stop out front a couple of times and a woman got out taking photos. Then she came to the door while I was at work to tell my wife how much she liked all the decorations. The next day I was out fiddling around with the display as I constantly do once it's up and she stopped again to talk to me. Turns out she was from the church around the corner and was looking to recruit me to help with their haunted house! lol I had to decline, but was both surprised and flattered by the request.


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## ichasiris (Aug 8, 2014)

I live in Austin, thank God, but it's still kind of a grab bag of people. I'm in one of the most liberal cities in Texas, but let's face it, it's still Texas.

I don't have many religious friends, because frankly I just can't relate to them very well, and constantly suspect they are judging me for one thing or another. Needless to say, I haven't come across many Halloween bigots. I did worry a bit with my Halloween decorations at work, and of course there is still time for one person to get up in arms and be offended and let me damn well know in our "Suggestions" box. I manage a gym so we have a lot of different types of people coming and going.

For the most part people have loved my decor although I'm sure some people think I'm a Satan worshipper. Or just some kind of weirdo freak in general, which I won't deny, hahahahaha!

Anywho, I am not sure how I would react or what I would say. I'm usually pretty eloquent with my comebacks, but with something like this which I am so passionate and caring of, I may just get pissed and tell them to go to H-E-Double Hockey Sticks, or to take the hockey stick out of their you know what and to get off my lawn!


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## Spats (Sep 21, 2006)

Simple enough.

"Halloween is about making fun of our fears with our neighbors and people we love, which is biblical, 1 John, 4:18."

Done.

Most aren't attacking the holiday because they honestly think we're embracing evil. Most are simply doing what their social circle or family expects. 
I've been there. It's really frightening having a different opinion from family elders, religious friends and your clique/tribe/culture. 
Most just don't bother.

Honestly, I wouldn't bother. Tell them you're sorry they're missing out on the fun and the sense of freedom, and go on. You won't change minds debating, and you don't need to. Year after year, the holiday gets geometrically bigger. 
Hallowen is perfectly healthy, despite it's naysayers.


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## Tyrant (Aug 19, 2013)

Spats said:


> Simple enough.
> 
> "Halloween is about making fun of our fears with our neighbors and people we love, which is biblical, 1 John, 4:18."
> 
> Done.


This is perfect! I'm using this next time I'm challenged by anyone hating on Halloween for religious reasons.


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## James B. (Oct 8, 2009)

I have an Aunt who thinks everything is evil. How can you read Harry Potter? Won't you please think of what all this Halloween stuff is doing to your children!

Oh please. I don't even believe in spirits and spooks, its just for fun. Magic is not a real thing. I see nothing to get upset over.


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## Muffy (Sep 25, 2006)

I have always celebrated Halloween where ever I have lived as did my Family ( I'm from Chicago lived mostly in Denver). When I moved here into the new house in rural NC is where I confronted my 1st problems ever in my 56 years of celebrating Halloween. First knock on the door was Jehovah Witnesses. They came for 3 years. Then it stopped. Have not had any more problems here at all since and we are getting ready to do our 9th season.


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## ironmaiden (Aug 5, 2003)

I know what you mean about the Jehovah's. 
The woman who lived next door to us in CA when I was growing up was Catholic. Then she became a JW and now every holiday was forbidden. When the kids would go to her door for ToT she would launch into a lecture. 
Since that didnt work the next year she used a large step ladder to block access to her porch

They visit our neighborhood every month or so to ring the bell. My husband works nights and sleeps in and our late kitty had a heart condition and the door bell terrified her.
So we put up NO SOLICITORS signs at both entrances. 
Didn't work.
They rang the bell anyways claiming they were not selling anything.
Well of course they are....

So now I have a hand written note under the sign that reads "And this includes Jehovah's Witnesses"

Before our kitty died I also put up a sign asking people to not ring the bell due to her heart issues.


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## zombieprincess (Nov 1, 2013)

My thing is simply if you don't like Halloween for any reason that's between you and yours. Don't come and preach to me about MY evil ways. It's my life so butt out. 

I will say that when a lady in the parking lot commented on the "deal" I got on the animated reindeer I was holding (just outside of Goodwill) and how awesome it will look in my yard, I didn't have the heart to tell her I was going to take it home and dismember it for Halloween. But that's my business and not hers.

Oh and IronMaiden: In high school we had JW show up almost EVERY Saturday at like 7am until a friend of mine told them to come back later because we were right in the middle of sacrificing a cat and couldn't stop the ritual for a long time.

They never showed up again.


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## deadthing (Oct 13, 2014)

Also from Utah and every year I have terrible experiences within my neighborhood. Right now three people who hold religious callings live behind me, across the street, and three houses down. We had just moved in last year and put up a few 'scary' decorations. We had some bloody handprints on the garage door as well as a plastic tarp that went over the front door and made scary noises. Boy were they were peeved. I was told by two of these neighbors that my displays were vulgar and that our neighborhood celebrates a more 'traditional' type of Halloween. i.e. smiling pumpkins and bats. I was really unhappy. This year our display has been amped up, and we have some new folks in the neighborhood who are putting up displays like cemeteries. A guy down the street is putting together a garage haunt. So we'll see how it goes this year.


Maybe I just tend to live in neighborhoods with jerks. I have issues every freaking year with people.


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## Jally (Sep 4, 2013)

I live in the mountains of PA with Amish and Mennonites all around. We don't ever trick or treat on the 31st. Why? Cause it's evil! A town we used to live in didn't even do TorT because they didn't have a police force to keep all the pranksters in check. Umm...OK...


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## Scatterbrains (Nov 16, 2008)

deadthing said:


> Also from Utah and every year I have terrible experiences within my neighborhood. Right now three people who hold religious callings live behind me, across the street, and three houses down. We had just moved in last year and put up a few 'scary' decorations. We had some bloody handprints on the garage door as well as a plastic tarp that went over the front door and made scary noises. Boy were they were peeved. I was told by two of these neighbors that my displays were vulgar and that our neighborhood celebrates a more 'traditional' type of Halloween. i.e. smiling pumpkins and bats. I was really unhappy. This year our display has been amped up, and we have some new folks in the neighborhood who are putting up displays like cemeteries. A guy down the street is putting together a garage haunt. So we'll see how it goes this year.
> 
> 
> Maybe I just tend to live in neighborhoods with jerks. I have issues every freaking year with people.


Where in Layton?


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## ichasiris (Aug 8, 2014)

Muffy said:


> I have always celebrated Halloween where ever I have lived as did my Family ( I'm from Chicago lived mostly in Denver). When I moved here into the new house in rural NC is where I confronted my 1st problems ever in my 56 years of celebrating Halloween. First knock on the door was Jehovah Witnesses. They came for 3 years. Then it stopped. Have not had any more problems here at all since and we are getting ready to do our 9th season.











Hahahahaha.


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## Ranchi (Oct 17, 2014)

I live in Norway. ... not many ppl in my town decorate. Decorations are expensive too and I used to work as a manager at a store that really target Halloween. I got so tired of ppl complaining to me all the time. The most common is that the "holiday" is adapted only for stores to make more money. 
This is the first year im rly going all out and i must admit im anxious as to what reactions will be...
Also i cant start decorating until like 29/30 the earliest here...


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## mikeerdas (Jan 30, 2010)

*Tolerance and Forbearance would be nice*

Here in semi-rural central North Carolina, it's a mixed bag. At least half of my subdivision--probably more--"don't do" Halloween. But rather, if they decorate at all, it's a "Harvest" theme. I attribute it to demographics. Where I was raised, in New England, the population was mostly Catholic. And Catholics tend not to have an issue with Halloween. Never seen Evangelism in Catholicism, though I suppose it exists in pockets. Same with Judaism--which also tends not to be a faith where one is commanded to actively convert others.

Here in NC where I live, the population seems to be largely Evangelical Christians. And thus the general sentiment against Halloween--believing, perhaps, that they "own" the Christian faith. And feel emboldened by their numbers to judge things they don't often fully understand. Any Rush fans might be reminded of the track "Witch Hunt" off the Moving Pictures album.

Not sure if this rings true to others residing in the South, but it seems many Evangelicals don't even consider Catholics or Episcopalians to be what they deem Christian. I've heard such talk at work. And either don't know, or don't recognize, that some Christians don't believe in Hell and/or eternal damnation. Or that Evolution can be / is compatible with Christian beliefs--that it could have been God's unfolding of creation. I doubt most even know what Unitarian Universalism is; but suspect if they did, they'd place its members in the non-Christian category.

Lots of transplants from the North around. But, also perhaps not so strangely, I've found many to be Evangelical Christians. Ones who likely felt out of place in predominantly Catholic cities and towns in the Northeast. No accident that there's a huge history of Italian and Irish emigration to those places. Being vocal and public and "witnessing" to others, where I lived in New England, was rare. That seemed limited to folks with Sandwich Boards out in the streets or cars plastered with religious advertising. Certainly outliers.

Not really surprised by what I seen in NC, given the #1 predictor worldwide of what religion one will practice is Geography--the accident of birth, so to speak: where one was born. If you're born in Saudi Arabia, statistically speaking you've got a high probability of "being" Muslim. Thailand? Buddhist. Japan? Buddhist in addition to Shinto (Japan's indigenous religion). Italy? Catholic. India? Hindu. I see the same phenomenon in different parts of the U.S. We're all legally entitled in the U.S. to choose our own faith, or be None of the Above. What I find distasteful, mostly, is ignorance of other world religions combined with arrogance and harsh judgment of those with other "competing" faiths. Plain old prejudice--judging a whole person by one aspect of their lives--whether it be skin color, country of origin, or one's beliefs about the ultimate nature of reality. My personal preference is that religion be a private matter. But that's just my preference.

Having studied many world religions, as well as many varieties of Christianity, I see many Christians don't seem to even understand the diversity / history / evolution of their own faith; let alone non-Christian faiths--whether they be Monotheistic, Polytheistic, or non-theistic (e.g. there's no God concept at all promoted in Buddhism). Or the beliefs of many of our Founding Fathers--that many were Deists and products of the French Enlightenment. Saw a really fascinating special on the Smithsonian Channel recently about restoring Thomas Jefferson's Bible. Jefferson literally took a razor to various Christian Bibles, using several translations, excising out of it all he believed to be legend, moral depravity, the supernatural, etc; leaving mostly New Testament ethics. It's a pretty thin volume. One he never shared publicly during his lifetime but evidently referred to frequently, taking strength from it. Something that might be interesting to have in a courtroom as an alternative Bible to be sworn in under oath with. Just search for "Jefferson's Bible" on Amazon. Growing up Catholic, I took it upon myself to read several books of the Old Testament, finding many of the books to be extremely violent and offensive; not at all in alignment with the laws and view of justice we have today.

George Washington only spoke of Providence. The God mentioned in the Declaration of Independence is a Philosophical concept--"Nature's God"; the God of Deists. Deists believe in a Creator, but one who has no personal interaction with human beings. The Personal Relationship With God concept that is strong here in NC, seems actually to be extra-Biblical; something bolted-on later, for which there's little to no scriptural basis. Anyway, there's no mention of God in the Constitution and Thank Goodness we still have Freedom of Religion. Now *that's* something to celebrate. 

Again, I view Halloween as a secular and fun holiday; one far from its religious roots. Although I realize it's a religious one for some--part of their religious practice. I view Christmas as a fun, secular holiday as well; one that is also religious for some and not for others. But a holiday people with many varieties of belief can appreciate the aesthetics of and participate in. So too with Halloween. But again, I'm not surprised at the backlash against Halloween. Given that many in the area spend their vacations on Mission Work trying to convert the world to their one particular interpretation of one particular monotheistic religion. The intolerance is sort of baked-in, don't you think? At least in some cases.


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## oaklawn Crematory (Jun 25, 2010)

No I Have Not.....There are Nutty PeopLe All Over The World. Im Glad He Isnt Cutting Heads off.


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## ooojen (Sep 4, 2014)

Ranchi said:


> I live in Norway. ... not many ppl in my town decorate. Decorations are expensive too and I used to work as a manager at a store that really target Halloween. I got so tired of ppl complaining to me all the time. The most common is that the "holiday" is adapted only for stores to make more money.
> This is the first year im rly going all out and i must admit im anxious as to what reactions will be...
> Also i cant start decorating until like 29/30 the earliest here...


Good luck with your Halloween decorating! 
I've seen that attitude from a lot of people outside North America. There is some argument to be made about commercialism and all the *stuff* we buy so we can celebrate ...but there's so much about celebrating Halloween that's really about community-- neighbors interacting with each other, kids interacting with adults. Done right, it's such a positive thing. I hope you can convince a few local Halloween Haters to see the fun side!


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## rockingthehomestead (Sep 1, 2014)

I have a coworker who doesn't celebrate for religious reasons, but she isn't a jerk about it. I've rarely met anyone who is, actually. There was a chaplain when I was deployed who celebrated it as a different holiday, with a pro Jesus tilt, you know, but even he was kind towards those who celebrated it the traditional way.


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## ironmaiden (Aug 5, 2003)

mikeerdas, I am Catholic, my mom was raised in a very large traditional Catholic family and they never had an issue with Halloween. I've never met a Roman Catholic who has.
and I'm a deeply devoted Rush fan since the 70's and I get it.
"Witch Hunt" indeed...........  

And I recall the small comic books by Chick Publications that were anti Catholic. There were a few of the evangelicals in So Cal who used to try to convert me by handing me one of them


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## mikeerdas (Jan 30, 2010)

rockingthehomestead said:


> I have a coworker who doesn't celebrate for religious reasons, but she isn't a jerk about it. I've rarely met anyone who is, actually. There was a chaplain when I was deployed who celebrated it as a different holiday, with a pro Jesus tilt, you know, but even he was kind towards those who celebrated it the traditional way.


That's very good to hear--lack of hostility plus kindness. Sounds like the product of a wise and mature mind; likely one with knowledge of, and respect for, other faiths. I think it was Sam Harris, the author and neuroscientist, who said bad people will do bad things; and good people will do good things. But it takes religious fervor and over-the-edge faith to make good people do bad things--e.g. what you see happening in some parts of the Muslim world today. Again, as Sam Harris has said in his book The End of Faith, many of those populations haven't gone through a philosophical Enlightenment stage. And so you see a lot of what Christians once practiced, e.g. the Spanish Inquisition, Salem Witch Trials. I'd hate to think we're moving backward rather than forward as a society in terms of religious freedom and tolerance.

That's something else I try to be mindful of--level of education doesn't necessarily correlate with extremes of religious fervor; in other words, very bright and well educated people can have what I'd personally consider to be odd and harmful beliefs. I forget the exact #, but evidently more than 50% of the 9/11 hijackers had Masters degrees or PhDs, many were engineers, etc. Not poorly educated and downtrodden as one might imagine.

Here in the West, I'd consider beliefs that we're in the End Times to be potentially harmful--e.g. if one thinks the world is ending, what incentive is there to preserve a good society for one's children, grandchildren, great grandchildren, etc?

While I don't actively practice any faith tradition, I feel closer in spirit to Eastern religions like Buddhism--whose two main pillars are Wisdom and Compassion. In fact, it blew my mind to discover a major world religion that:

1) Is non-theistic. Evidently, the Historical Buddha when asked if there was a God claimed that was an unproductive question. And so Buddhism can be compatible with other faiths.

2) Buddhist scriptures are in a very real sense anti-faith and pro-experience--e.g. the Historical Buddha is alleged to have always said to try the mind training practices and see for yourself if they are true. And if your experience doesn't bear out those truths, find another path with his compliments--no hard feelings. So it's empirical / evidence based. Even if that evidence is based on internal, personal practice.

A lot of recent neuroscience, using fMRIs and other brain imaging technology, has validated Buddhist models of the mind. Secularized mindfulness practice has been shown to help those with chronic pain and other conditions. Quite cool. No belief or faith required.

I'm not promoting Buddhism. But Wisdom, Compassion, and working toward reducing human suffering sound like noble aims to me.


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## mikeerdas (Jan 30, 2010)

ironmaiden said:


> mikeerdas, I am Catholic and I'm a deeply devoted Rush fan since the 70's and I get it.
> "Witch Hunt" indeed...........
> 
> And I recall the small comic books by Chick Publications that were anti Catholic


Very cool. I'm originally from Southern New Hampshire + the North Shore of Massachusetts. There's a rumor Rush will be touring this Spring. I hope that rumor is true. Caught them on the Clockwork Angels tour here in Raleigh, NC and it blew my mind; also having been a Rush fan forever. But never having seen them live. The heresy!  Now, I'm committed to see them on as many tours as they'll grace us with.

It's interesting, really, the whole Clockwork Angels album is in some sense related to the French Enlightenment and Deism (in addition to the obvious Steampunk theme). I hear a lot of that in the lyrics. Major influence from the French philosopher Voltaire; there's a famous novel by Voltaire named Candide where a character, Dr. Pangloss (Pan meaning All and Gloss; well, putting a gloss on all things), talks about this being the Best of All Possible Worlds; despite various natural disasters occurring, suffering, disease. It's an ironic work and gets into what Philosophers call the Problem of Evil--how do you get childhood cancers, earthquakes, etc, from a God alleged to be omnipotent (all powerful), omniscient (all knowing), and omnibenevolent (all good). Intriguing stuff.

I'm thinking in particular of the track Brought Up to Believe on the Clockwork Angels album. It immediately struck me as dealing with Deism and the French Enlightenment. I really hope they're in the process of writing a new album. I tuned out for many years when Grace Under Pressure disappointed me badly. Recently been discovering a lot of great Rush I'd missed over the years, e.g. Test for Echo onward.

Oh yeah, I remember the Chick Tracts too. I see less of them here.


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## mikeerdas (Jan 30, 2010)

*Christian Hell Houses*

While we're on the topic, anyone seen the documentary called Hell House? It's about a church in Dallas, TX that runs a haunt actually designed to implant huge anxieties in the minds of children, e.g. trying to use a haunt not for entertainment / make-believe; but to scare the hell out of kids if they don't fully practice their particular variety of Christianity. Some of the scenes were more repulsive than any haunt I've attended given the subject matter and ideological intent. This isn't a harmless Harvest / Trunk or Treat. It's a weird co-opting of a haunted attraction for very specific religious reasons.

Been years since I've seen it. Think they go through their build process among other things. Makes we wonder if there are such Evangelical Christian haunts around Raleigh, NC:

http://www.amazon.com/Hell-House-Aria-Adloo/dp/B000092T6A/ref=sr_1_2?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1413733248&sr=1-2&keywords=hell+house

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0301235/

Another interesting documentary is Bill Maher's Religulous--embarrassingly, the opening scene about the Trucker's Church was filmed in Raleigh:
http://www.amazon.com/Religulous-Bill-Maher/dp/B001MFNB5I/ref=sr_1_2?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1413733453&sr=1-2&keywords=religulous

He visits a rather odd Christian Theme park off I-4 in Orlando called the Holy Land Experience. Passed by it many times on my way to Disney. Fun to see the inside.

Sorry, I *love* documentaries.


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## screamqueen2012 (Aug 2, 2012)

oh yeah, one better, i homeschooled my kids in ap, whole way through, and SOME in that group, and im in nc too....let me tell you, we didnt discuss halloween at all or our parties or maze.....i had to be careful when some of that group of kids came over too, do a house check, so my kids wouldnt lose friends.....and my two were in a strict religous ap college prep program.....its amazing to me really the closed minded of some folks...not to criticize really i mean do what you will and do no harm but, you know? i think we were alot more nicer and accommodating than many of some of them............other than that, the rest of our friends and family and neighbors adore what we do and its a tradition for them to come see us......you cant please everyone. 



StanFam3 said:


> Sounds like rural S GA to me!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I cannot even remember how many times I've been preached too. Blegh.


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## screamqueen2012 (Aug 2, 2012)

did you all catch my post on another thread about my visitors to my door while we were getting ready for our halloween party last weekend.....something light here....my front porch is a country porch, its full of witches, i mean all over the place and hanging, witch things, did i say witches...yep....and at the landing in the yard, set ups, displays...........my husband came in from the driveway side door and handed me a pamplet and said this is for YOU.........was two watch tower printouts and inside the horrors of halloween...........lol..........so they didnt come up my front walk to my front porch to ring my bell or put that in the front door but probably threw it at my side door and left.......i can only imagine..........i was so disappointed, i needed a stress relief and would have loved that conversation...i laughed all afternoon.....hillarious...no offense now...but really come on relax alittle


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## screamqueen2012 (Aug 2, 2012)

now see i dont like that at all.......bad, bad bad....thats crossing the line in the wrong way. yes there is at least one church thats huge that crosses that line. i have a couple of friends who go there and i quietly sit and just listen to some of the mind bending stories...its cult material.



mikeerdas said:


> While we're on the topic, anyone seen the documentary called Hell House? It's about a church in Dallas, TX that runs a haunt actually designed to implant huge anxieties in the minds of children, e.g. trying to use a haunt not for entertainment / make-believe; but to scare the hell out of kids if they don't fully practice their particular variety of Christianity. Some of the scenes were more repulsive than any haunt I've attended given the subject matter and ideological intent. This isn't a harmless Harvest / Trunk or Treat. It's a weird co-opting of a haunted attraction for very specific religious reasons.
> 
> Been years since I've seen it. Think they go through their build process among other things. Makes we wonder if there are such Evangelical Christian haunts around Raleigh, NC:
> 
> ...


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## ironmaiden (Aug 5, 2003)

mikeerdas said:


> Very cool. I'm originally from Southern New Hampshire + the North Shore of Massachusetts. There's a rumor Rush will be touring this Spring. I hope that rumor is true. Caught them on the Clockwork Angels tour here in Raleigh, NC and it blew my mind; also having been a Rush fan forever. But never having seen them live. The heresy!  Now, I'm committed to see them on as many tours as they'll grace us with.
> 
> It's interesting, really, the whole Clockwork Angels album is in some sense related to the French Enlightenment and Deism (in addition to the obvious Steampunk theme). I hear a lot of that in the lyrics. Major influence from the French philosopher Voltaire; there's a famous novel by Voltaire named Candide where a character, Dr. Pangloss (Pan meaning All and Gloss; well, putting a gloss on all things), talks about this being the Best of All Possible Worlds; despite various natural disasters occurring, suffering, disease. It's an ironic work and gets into what Philosophers call the Problem of Evil--how do you get childhood cancers, earthquakes, etc, from a God alleged to be omnipotent (all powerful), omniscient (all knowing), and omnibenevolent (all good). Intriguing stuff.
> 
> ...


A yankee living in NC, that's great LOL Were you born here or elsewhere and then grew up in the area? Just curious as I am not a native and meet very few Californians living here or any non native as far as that goes.
Actually I hear alot of them up here talk about moving to NC and I think we know just how many of them are in FL eh? 

As for Rush, well it was their music that brought my family here, that is a long story however and I will simply say it in these few words: SUBDIVISIONS and AUTUMN WOODS AND WINTER SKIES.

Saw them live on the Grace Under Pressure Tour at the LA Forum and again live at the old Worchester Centrum for the Presto tour.
Then they came to NH for the Clockwork tour two years ago. Went with hubby and little bro. He absolutely loved it.
I sure hope youre right about another tour and it was great not having to drive to MA


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## screamqueen2012 (Aug 2, 2012)

they are harmless...see my post above from what happened last week....i would have loved to caught them at my door and my husband who was raised catholic and raised in catholic private schools would have been better, he could have quoted more of the bible to them than i know they thought they knew...no one to get into a trivia contest with.....im glad i am not in a rural area or down east...i can see that as more dangerous for halloween folks here



Muffy said:


> I have always celebrated Halloween where ever I have lived as did my Family ( I'm from Chicago lived mostly in Denver). When I moved here into the new house in rural NC is where I confronted my 1st problems ever in my 56 years of celebrating Halloween. First knock on the door was Jehovah Witnesses. They came for 3 years. Then it stopped. Have not had any more problems here at all since and we are getting ready to do our 9th season.


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## mikeerdas (Jan 30, 2010)

screamqueen2012 said:


> did you all catch my post on another thread about my visitors to my door while we were getting ready for our halloween party last weekend.....something light here....my front porch is a country porch, its full of witches, i mean all over the place and hanging, witch things, did i say witches...yep....and at the landing in the yard, set ups, displays...........my husband came in from the driveway side door and handed me a pamplet and said this is for YOU.........was two watch tower printouts and inside the horrors of halloween...........lol..........so they didnt come up my front walk to my front porch to ring my bell or put that in the front door but probably threw it at my side door and left.......i can only imagine..........i was so disappointed, i needed a stress relief and would have loved that conversation...i laughed all afternoon.....hillarious...no offense now...but really come on relax alittle


Sorry you lost your opportunity.  The JWs have visited my home once but I politely asked them to leave and slowly closed the door. Despite having funny thoughts about how to interact. But really, like someone else suggested, it's a form of door-to-door sales. The product is intangible and cognitive; but it's selling nonetheless. You know, ABC: Always Be Closing. I'll Always Be Closing--the door. Politely with a "no thanks, please don't return; have a great day" and a smile. Part of me wants to say something provocative, but I'm not a confrontational or mean person. I like to think kindness is my religion--that's the goal anyway.

The door-to-doors pitches are a bit like Amway Products / Multi-Level-Marketing. And I avoid all that stuff like dracula avoids garlic. It's also like unwanted calls from telemarketers. The pause upon answering is a sure giveaway of a Robo-dialer. So sometimes I hang-up before I hear a voice. Unwelcome, but there's a human being at the end of the line. So my tactic if I do get a human instantly when I pick up is to interrupt the script (they're almost always reading scripts) and say, "Sorry, not interested. Please put me on your Do No Call list. I'm hanging up the phone now, bye."--because they often talk right over you. It's been very effective for me.

When I was younger and a little less kind, I did have a specific routine for visits from Mormons. I'd say "Elders," (typically a pair of well and identically dressed 18 year old guys with a Book of Mormon in their shirt pockets--but they're known as Elders). "Elders, these Golden Plates Joseph Smith "translated"; where are they on display so I can have a look see?" The answer, of course, is "Ummm, erm, you can't. The Angel Moroni took them away." And I'd say, "Ok, I see how it is. Thanks, good bye" then slowly close the door. An unkinder cut would be to immediate ask about the Magic Underwear. I'll leave that as An Exercise for the Reader re: what that refers to. Strange. But religion is funny that way--one faith can seem bizarre to a person of another faith, to whom their own beliefs seem normal and natural. But possibly appear bat-sh*t crazy to others.


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## mikeerdas (Jan 30, 2010)

ironmaiden said:


> A yankee living in NC, that's great LOL Were you born here or elsewhere and then grew up in the area? Just curious as I am not a native and meet very few Californians living here or any non native as far as that goes.
> Actually I hear alot of them up here talk about moving to NC and I think we know just how many of them are in FL eh?
> 
> As for Rush, well it was their music that brought my family here, that is a long story however and I will simply say it in these few words: SUBDIVISIONS and AUTUMN WOODS AND WINTER SKIES.
> ...


Born in the Witch City (Salem, MA); lived in MA through elementary school; then junior high, high school, and college in New Hampshire. Been to the Centrum many times. Awesome that you saw them when they came to NH! My wife wasn't a Rush fan at all when we saw them; but we went with a married couple friends of ours who are Rush die-hard fans. She had a great time--I rewarded her with that expensive black and red Rush jacket that were selling on the Clockwork Angels tour--pricey, but Rush sells high quality merch! She turned to me during Neil's drum solo and said quite solemnly, "That's impressive!"  Well ya! Best rock bassist on earth, best rock drummer on earth, and a fantastic guitarist. Also I told her "Honey, it's a Rush show. Just think of the bennies--no long lines at the Ladies Room." Rush having a predominantly male fan base--typically male musicians (that's me), for those who don't know. She also liked Alex's antics joking around with fans in the front row throughout most of the show. She said he must play effortlessly and know the songs thoroughly to have that much interaction with the crowd. Yeppers.

Cool that Rush had a role in your move. I think Neil Peart said, in the documentary Beyond the Lighted Stage (a must see for any Rush fan), said fans often claim certain Rush songs are the Soundtrack to (at least part of) their lives.

Rush opening with Subdivisions at the Clockwork Angles show was so powerful. Sent shivers down my spine. Incredible stuff.

As far as being a Yankee in Dixieland, I've gotten over the jokes and stand my ground, being proud of my heritage. Not trying to change anything or complain (other than the overt in your face religiosity). But more like, if confronted with a Yankee joke, I'm more: sorry y'all, but without we Bostonians / New England patriots, you'd still be a British Colony. At least for quite a bit longer. Or these days, merely a Commonwealth nation.  No offense to proud Canadians, by the way.

I like wearing Rush shirts when I travel. We're a great Affinity Group to belong to, and it's a great excuse for someone to approach you and to make a new friend--but of course I'm hopelessly biased. But I've found it's either hot or cold with Rush--one is typically all-in 100% passionate about the band and its music or have no interest. My wife gets a lot of nice comments on the Rush jacket wherever we go. It's like having extended family. Humans beings are innately tribal and clannish--the Rush tribe is a decent tribe to belong to. Incidentally, I think that's a huge factor in religion / church goers--the Fellowship. It almost doesn't matter what the underlying Truth is; and that's not just my view. Simply look at the enormous variety of different and conflicting faith / truth claims, even, or especially, within Christianity itself. 

I often tell my wife there are two religions in NC: Christianity and College Basketball (another tribe-like affinity group where people rally around some Truth--"my team is the best!" Well, they can't all be, can they? I stay out of the sports fray by rooting for Northern teams. Go Huskies.  I've got family in Connecticut too...


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## Saruman of Many Colours (Sep 8, 2010)

ironmaiden said:


> mikeerdas, I am Catholic, my mom was raised in a very large traditional Catholic family and they never had an issue with Halloween. I've never met a Roman Catholic who has.


That's always been my experience as well.


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## ironmaiden (Aug 5, 2003)

mikeerdas, we visited Salem MA once, in 1985 the year before we moved-it was a scouting trip so-to-speak. Funny though, now that I'm here I don't go many places. Traffic sucks espicially foliage season. Havent been on an autumn drive in over 15 years. Well I think after a while it becomes just a given.
I mean the first few years after I moved here I would jump in the Z28 (she's a Cali girl too  ) and hit the back roads to cruise the woods with Rush and a camera.
It was as magical as I ever imagined. I always wanted to see and live the dream...... Now I am just a jaded, grumpy old crab LOL

I have the Rush movie you mentioned as well as all the others. Yes, their music was the catalyst that prompted my mom to sell her house, pack the Camaro and head east with two kids and a cat. We had no family here, and they are all still out west (CA ,NV and UT)
Yes, family and friends said we were crazy and would never do it. Made my mom all the more determined.

Yes there are more guys at a Rush show, I find that to be when I see Judas Priest and Iron Maiden as well  

We try to go to a concert every year and take my brother along, he needs a break from his monster twin boys  . Being able to see Rush so close to home was great. He had never seen them live and to be able to stand with my little 6' 3" brother rockin out to Rush was a memory I will never forget. The move to NH was primarily for my brother and, to a lesser extent, me (I'm quite a bit older than he) It was the best thing that could have ever happened to a kid of 11 and being able to grow up here rather than So Cal changed his future for the better.

Before the concert we walked up and down Elm St to check out the thousands of other fans all wearing their various shirts etc and stop to talk. You are right, they have such a loyal following and one of the reasons is because of the way they were savaged by critics and the media for decades. 
Hey I bought the Guitar Hero "Warriors of Rock " for my Wii JUST to get the entire 2112. THEN i discovered you had to unlock the damn thing just to play it so I sang my way through dozens of crapppy songs just to get it. Oh and there was some *crappy* tunes on there.......


Oh and while I Iike the Pats and Bruins I'm a Laker fan. Do not like baseball and the Socks in particular


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## rockingthehomestead (Sep 1, 2014)

mikeerdas said:


> That's very good to hear--lack of hostility plus kindness. Sounds like the product of a wise and mature mind; likely one with knowledge of, and respect for, other faiths. I think it was Sam Harris, the author and neuroscientist, who said bad people will do bad things; and good people will do good things. But it takes religious fervor and over-the-edge faith to make good people do bad things--e.g. what you see happening in some parts of the Muslim world today. Again, as Sam Harris has said in his book The End of Faith, many of those populations haven't gone through a philosophical Enlightenment stage. And so you see a lot of what Christians once practiced, e.g. the Spanish Inquisition, Salem Witch Trials. I'd hate to think we're moving backward rather than forward as a society in terms of religious freedom and tolerance.


I think you might be giving her more credit than she deserves, lol. She's been known to say some insensitive things about people of different colors, cultures, religions, sexual orientations, sexual identities, and political beliefs, lol. But I'd say she's growing towards a more accepting viewpoint. 

I think for her it comes down to knowing she's in the minority, even amongst other Christians, and not wanting to seem weird or antisocial. She believes in her personal choice, but she also understands pushing it on others would cause her to be disliked.

It's kind of unfair to lump all religions into one stereotype. There are many different types of religious people out there, many of which may surprise you. There is a large movement of feminist Muslims, for example. And pro choice Christians. And very likely there are a number of religious Halloween fans here. I know I'm one of them. Religion is certainly a tool that can be used for some pretty awful things, and has been, but so has plenty of other philosophies/ideas that have nothing to do with religion. There is also a movement that finds it to be an act of entitlement for people from other cultures to pick and choose bits of other culture's religions as it fits their own world view. I think there's a lot of awesome stuff in eastern religion myself, but I'm careful about how I express that, because if I'm not careful, it could easily be an expression of cultural appropriation. I'm as white as they come, lol. Not that one can't pursue the religion of a different culture in appropriate ways, it's just a fine line, you know? I guess I managed to stay really inside my culture with my religion, I'm Lutheran (my heritage is mostly German and Irish), but it's how I grew up. I did find a very progressive Lutheran church when I grew up and struck out on my own. Most people with stereotypical views of what Christianity is would not recognize it as a Christian church, if told our philosophies.


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## Skeletoncrew (Oct 10, 2013)

Saruman of Many Colours said:


> That's always been my experience as well.


Agreed, grew up in Upstate NY.. large Irish, Italian and Polish population .. Mostly Catholic, no problems. 

Here in small town NC the only Catholic Church is mostly a Hispanic one. Largely Baptist is 'the' most practiced here.


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## mikeerdas (Jan 30, 2010)

I saw Maiden on the Powerslave tour many moons ago. Have never gone to see Priest; always wanted to. Metal bands and shows tend to attract more guys in general. Got to see Queensryche at a small venue in Winston-Salem, NC several years ago where they played the entire Operational Mindcrime album from beginning to end. They, like Rush, also had a small orchestra traveling with them. Fantastic show. Glad I was able to see Geoff Tate belt it out--he could still hit all the high notes; even that really extended one toward the beginning of Take Hold of the Flame. Some friends of mine had braced ourselves thinking, nah, he's not gonna go for that note. But he did and reached it. Poor Geddy really struggles with the high notes these days. Don't see him ever performing, say, Bastille Day live ever again. But I like that he now writes for the vocal range he has now, e.g. Clockwork Angels. Great album.

Sorry you haven't been out leaf peeping--one of the pleasure of living in New England. But I can get the same experience driving the Blue Ridge Parkway--much longer than the Kanckamangus (sp) scenic highway. People think since NC is the south that the seasons "don't change" here. Well, they certainly do. Gorgeous foliage out in Western NC in the mountains. And the Blue Ridge Parkway runs from around an hour out of DC all the way through to the Smokey Mtn National Park; something like a stretch of 400 miles. Having gone to grad school at Appalachian State as an older student, my heart still resides in Boone--religion there didn't seem to be an issue. It was more a live and let live sort of vibe, which I loved. Only till I started living and working in Raleigh did I start to see the ugliness of a majority of Evangelicals trying to Run the Show and display a lot of arrogance and privilege, e.g. saying prayers to Yeshua Ben Yosef at work celebrations. And mind you, this is at a tax-payer funded government workplace... Seems so wrong and so disrespectful to lots of people of other faiths who work where I work, e.g. lots of Indian Hindu IT people, etc.

I loved seeing the Tailgaters at the Rush show (PNC Center); tons of multi-generational families attending. Very cool. I'm not into sports at all. But I could totally dig Tailgating at a Rush show. Need to get me a Fly By Night T-shirt to show I'm an old school fan. 

Funny about having to get through a lot of crap to unlock all of 2112--hope it was worth it. What a great album! I loved that toward the end of the Clockwork Angels show they did a medley / shortened version of 2112.

Glad you're able to enjoy Rush and concerts with your family. Great memories!



ironmaiden said:


> mikeerdas, we visited Salem MA once, in 1985 the year before we moved-it was a scouting trip so-to-speak. Funny though, now that I'm here I don't go many places. Traffic sucks espicially foliage season. Havent been on an autumn drive in over 15 years. Well I think after a while it becomes just a given.
> I mean the first few years after I moved here I would jump in the Z28 (she's a Cali girl too  ) and hit the back roads to cruise the woods with Rush and a camera.
> It was as magical as I ever imagined. I always wanted to see and live the dream...... Now I am just a jaded, grumpy old crab LOL
> 
> ...


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