# Halloween on Saturday? Forever?



## helixtheklown (Jan 11, 2009)

I just pledged!


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## LV Scott T (Aug 14, 2007)

Works for me, but I would imagine the ones to really ask are the ProHaunt operators.


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## Stephbat (Aug 19, 2009)

I pledged! I really hope it happens. When I was a kid I use to hate having to get home from trick or treating and immediately go to bed because it was a school night.


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## mementomori (Aug 19, 2009)

not for me thanks, for me halloween is on oct 31, whatever day that falls on.


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## the dogman (Jul 8, 2007)

Hm. 

Putting Halloween on a Saturday for all time could have it's benefits as listed above. It is a definite advantage in the idea of being consistent. Look at how Labor day and Mothers day have fared for being on the same day every year. 

But there are negatives. Say its the last Saturday in October. That day will always be different when it comes to date, much like Labor day. One complication put on by Labor day being late this year is that my college semester is a week shorter and therefore we have extended classes by 5 minutes and we are getting a lot of info crammed into our classes. It's caused a bit of chaos. Now I know we could start the college courses earlier in years that Labor day falls late, but that's not the point I'm trying to make. 

What I am trying to say is that it can cause scheduling issues with folks who have it ingrained into them that Halloween is the last day in October, not the last Saturday. Some years the holiday will sneak up a week early and not everyone will be prepared by that time.

I really think that if it happens it will take a lot of time to adjust to it and it could end up hurting Halloween based businesses.

I like Halloween on the weekends, but I also like knowing that at some point, the kids who have been hanging around the haunt for several hours have to go home because they have school or their parents have work. Our haunt is not a babysitting service and having mini loiterers ruins the atmosphere.

I guess I'm on the fence for this one.


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## Otaku (Sep 10, 2004)

Of course Mr. Silverstein would like to have a Halloweekend - he has a financial interest.

While I like those years when Halloween falls on a weekend, I have to take issue with the commercialization angle. There are religious aspects, as well. It would be cool if kids were given Nov. 1st as a school holiday to "recover" from a late night of TOT'ing but we know that'll never happen.

Halloween is October 31st, period.


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## VeeCat (Sep 17, 2006)

I don't agree. Mainly because I am always used to it being on the 31st,
and that's what the national day for it is. You know, like in scary stories and
movies. .that's just what it's been. That's my point of view.


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## Scaredy Kat (Sep 17, 2007)

On one hand, October 31 will always be Halloween for me. But I like the idea of Halloween being on a Saturday every year since Halloween is not designated as an official holiday, unless, you specifically ask for it off, you have to work and kids go to school. I think people will adjust to the different dates each year. All you have to do is find next year's calendar and see when the last Saturday in October is. There is no set date for Thanksgiving, it's always the last Thursday in November. And there is no set date for Easter in can fall between two different months.


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## piraticalstyle (Sep 1, 2009)

As the day has significant religious meaning for many, as well as all the fun that can be had, I am opposed to changing it to a floating holiday. I recommend we start a new petition to make it a recognized National Holiday, thus providing a day off from work or school like any other "bank holiday". 

October 31... FOREVER!!!!


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## heavymetalmama (Jul 10, 2009)

I'm just not sure about how I feel about this one. On one hand, I love the idea of Halloween on Saturday every year, but like others said October 31st just IS Halloween. I cant imagine Halloween being on October 28th or October 27th. It just doesn't seem right, but that said, I'm a pretty easy-going person and I'm cool with whatever. I'll celebrate on October 31st either way.


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## DaveintheGrave (Feb 12, 2004)

Nah. October 31st is HALLOWEEN. They already took away one hour of our darkness a couple of years ago and now this?

How about instead we change to celebrating Christmas on the closest Sunday to Dec. 25th?


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## JohnnyL (Nov 6, 2005)

No thanks. Halloween has been celebrated on the same day for thousands of years. Changing the day would ruin all the magic. 

Agreed, this is purely for commercial interest.

Halloween, October 31st


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## UnOrthodOx (Apr 24, 2007)

DaveintheGrave said:


> Nah. October 31st is HALLOWEEN. They already took away one hour of our darkness a couple of years ago and now this?
> 
> How about instead we change to celebrating Christmas on the closest Sunday to Dec. 25th?


Works for Easter... (first sunday after the first full moon of the spring equinox)

I'm indeterminate on my feelings....Maybe if we could swing 3 day weekends...


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## Baron Samedi (Jan 15, 2009)

There are convincing arguments for and against, most of which have already been well addressed earlier in the thread.

Personally I'm a traditionalist and it's October 31st for me.

I agree with piraticalstyle in that the efforts would be better put to use in campaigning for a national holiday. We could do with one in October here in the UK as we have nothing between August and December.


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## Spats (Sep 21, 2006)

I agree that the actual date of the 31st has significant meaning to a lot of folks.

Easter has always been the first Sunday after the first full moon of the equinox, and Halloween has always been the last day of October. 
I don't even like people deciding when Trick or Treat is. Halloween is Halloween, no matter how convenient or not it may be to a city council.

The idea of making a federal holiday has it's merits. Like Christmas, it has huge appeal for the masses, apart from it's spiritual meaning for a large and growing religious community - my problem is, I'd rather have the day after. I'm up until dawn on All Hallows. My Jack O' Lantern flickers until dawn.


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## theworstwitch (Aug 14, 2006)

I do like the idea of making Halloween a national holiday, or maybe better yet, All Souls Day, November 1st, so that everyone gets the day after off!


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## Madame Leota (Sep 19, 2005)

Call me a purist but it just has to be October 31st for me. That way, we get the whole month of October to enjoy. I just can't imagine having 5 or 6 days left in October but halloween is already over. Seems like that would be a real downer...


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## thegingerowl (Sep 8, 2009)

JohnnyL said:


> No thanks. Halloween has been celebrated on the same day for thousands of years. Changing the day would ruin all the magic.
> 
> Agreed, this is purely for commercial interest.
> 
> Halloween, October 31st



Ditto. There's no way I'd vote to change the day any earlier than what is traditionally celebrated.


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## Uruk-Hai (Aug 31, 2008)

Has to be Oct. 31st for me too. I like looking forward to a year when Halloween falls on a weekend or even better a full moon - it makes for an extra special night that year. Actually I'd much more prefer it if we could guarantee good weather for the big night - no rain, no snow, just perfect weather year after year. Now THAT is something to get excited about!


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## Spooky1 (Oct 19, 2008)

Halloween is October 31st. If they want to make it a holiday and give everyone the day off, fine. But don't mess with the date. It's the day before All Saints Day.


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## DRKSAINT (Sep 30, 2009)

October 31st is Halloween. A national holiday would be cool but it has to be on October 31st.


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## bethene (Feb 12, 2007)

I have to say, I agree with the majority, Halloween is October 31st. maybe you can't teach "old dogs new tricks" but it's worked for my 54 years, and while the week ends are fun, kids still manage to TOT on Mondays and Tuesdays too. Making it a national holiday would be great, don't believe it will ever happen, to many crazy's think it is "evil" blah, blah, but it would be great


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## Bubbels (Nov 30, 2008)

Logstically its a great idea. Signed it and linked it on facebook. The person who mentioned day light savings. Consider the fact that if its on a saturday. Instead of going from 6 to 9, you could go from 6 to 10. For those that consider the 31st significant. Consider the fact that many cultures over thousands of years disagree on calendars. Its just a number.


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## Halloweenfan (Sep 18, 2008)

I think this would be better for the Trick or Treaters, or just for a lot of people who don't have much time for Halloween on a Monday - Friday.

Spirit is going to want Halloween to be on a Saturday because they could get more business at the store because they figure more people will Trick or Treat on a Saturday, and other businesses would love it because they figure on a Saturday, there are going to be more people trick or treating for longer hours, and that means more candy for people to buy.


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## JohnnyL (Nov 6, 2005)

So we should change a historical date just for people who don't have time and so kids can stay out longer? It just doesn't make any sense to me. October 31st isn't just a number, its the birthdate of Halloween.


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## Reynard Muldrake (Oct 29, 2004)

N.O. Spirit needs its ass kicked. The 31st of October is Halloween! Not only that, but it allows the entire month leading up to it to be official Halloween season. Imagine if "Halloween" was on the 25th or something. Less time leading up to it, more time to usher in the damn Christmas takeover. Halloween out of stores and Christmas in on the 26th of October. Barf!


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## Ugly Joe (Jan 13, 2004)

it wouldn't feel right to me to have Halloween on any day but the 31st, but it's likely due to my upbringing...it's just how it's always been.

I mean, Halloween existed before we were using our current calendars...we use the Georgian calendar, which is based upon the Julian calendar, which was created by the decree of Julius Caesar. That was just over 2000 years ago, and I'm pretty sure Halloween has roots pre-dating that by a large margin.
So, even though Halloween is just an arbitrary day on a calendar that was created out of compromise more than anything, I dislike the thought of it being any day but the 31st of October.


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## the dogman (Jul 8, 2007)

> Less time leading up to it, more time to usher in the damn Christmas takeover. Halloween out of stores and Christmas in on the 26th of October. Barf!


You have stores that *don't* have their Xmas stuff out already?!?!?! 

A lot of stores are putting out their Xmas decor side by side with the fall and Halloween decor.
Every year Xmas decor is out earlier and earlier even if it is only by a few days. 
It's not full blown Xmas stuff but it starts little by little and grows and takes over all other holiday displays.

I would much rather have Halloween be a national holiday instead of the last Saturday of the month. It would still boost sales for Halloween companies because its a paid holiday a lot of people will gladly take.
Not everyone takes the weekends off. A lot of people work weekends so make ends meet, so having it on a Saturday doesn't guarantee kids will ToT more.


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## Dr.Ghoul (Sep 6, 2009)

I signed the petition, but I'm kind of on the fence about the whole thing. It would be great to have the day off on Halloween. This year everyone will have way more time to set up everything, if they choose to do so on Saturday. But like others have said, the 31st just feels right. It would feel weird to have Halloween on the 25 or 26, because then it would be over so quick. I'd rather just have the day after Halloween off.


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## Mr. Scratch (Aug 1, 2009)

I HATE this idea so much. It's completely ridiculous Halloween is Oct. 31st.


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## JohnnyL (Nov 6, 2005)

If you're on the fence about it why'd you sign a petition for it? lol ;-)


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## TheWarden (Oct 4, 2006)

Stephbat said:


> I pledged! I really hope it happens. When I was a kid I use to hate having to get home from trick or treating and immediately go to bed because it was a school night.


Yup. But you know what, I've never made my kids go to bed on time on Halloween night. Not in a million years. In fact, they never had to go the next day. They typically always did, but I never made them. Stay up eating candy and reeling from a long night of walking and screaming!  That's the way it should be. So moving it to a Saturday every year...I'm all for it.


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## cinders (Oct 12, 2003)

October 31.


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## maximpakt (Aug 11, 2006)

While I do have a sentimental spot for the 31st im gonna have to support this one. My favorite holiday always on a Saturday and the day after sales always on Sunday.


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## texmaster (Aug 25, 2008)

mementomori said:


> not for me thanks, for me halloween is on oct 31, whatever day that falls on.


Not just that, kids stay out later so that means more mischief for my props!

and late night trick or treaters


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## walkingcorpse (Aug 29, 2008)

Leave Halloween on October 31st. But, let's start a petition for National Haunt day(night) on some random Saturday in say late April


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## MedeaViolia (Aug 31, 2009)

Halloween, All Hallows Eve.. the day before All Saints Day. Samhain

I apologise if I ruffle some feathers but it's a legitimate religious holiday. I would point blank refuse to celibrate it on any day but the 31st of October. I am disgusted that anyone would seek to change it. Why would anyone change it but for money? I am really annoyed by the suggestion. Actually.. annoyed doesnt cut it. I am disgusted by the suggestion. Would anyone move Christmas?


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## Mr. Scratch (Aug 1, 2009)

Otaku said:


> Of course Mr. Silverstein would like to have a Halloweekend - he has a financial interest.
> 
> 
> > Absolutely. Why should some company get to have a Holiday changed just so they can make more money? If Wal Mart did this people would freak out about it. It's sickening. I'm done with Spirit.


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## slaz (Aug 18, 2008)

Count me out. Oct 31st is Halloween, period.


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## ZombieRaider (May 18, 2008)

It's safe to say I'm in the majority vote of not changing it....It wouldn't change what I do...I have my party on Sat always anyway and I try to catch as much local haunts/events and TV shows through out the whole month as I possibly can....To me all of October is Halloween in one way or another to enjoy...I agree it's a business move which isn't in my best interest....ZR


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## texashalloween08 (Oct 4, 2008)

October 31st for me, whatever day that falls on!


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## pdcollins6092 (Aug 8, 2009)

Too many things have already been changed as far as Halloween goes. I mean most places the kids have to now start TOTing before it even gets dark outside, haunted houses aren't what the use to be they are more like skits now. Anybody that likes halloween sould like the tradition of it too. Yeah its great when it falls on the weekend but come on Halloween is October 31.


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## larry (Apr 5, 2002)

Remember to be nice. Share your opinion...be nice and remember the rules of the forum. Thanks.


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## Boo Baby (Oct 7, 2008)

I'm with the masses here. To me there is something magical about October 31, it just wouldn't be Halloween on any other day...not to me anyways...


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## Bubbels (Nov 30, 2008)

MedeaViolia said:


> Would anyone move Christmas?


Sure! If I didnt get the day off.


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## ICKYVICKI (Sep 12, 2003)

It's funny, but this same topic was my original post 6 years ago! Nobody wanted it changed and in the end, I couldn't help but to agree. Although, for parents with small children Sat. would be ultra-convenient!


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## Bubbels (Nov 30, 2008)

walkingcorpse said:


> Leave Halloween on October 31st. But, let's start a petition for National Haunt day(night) on some random Saturday in say late April


This has potential. However a national haunt day in april might be tough to pull. I would be up for it, but I doubt many others in town would.

How about we just comprimise with national ToT night being the last Saturday of October? That way people can keep their precious number 31 if for religious or magical reasons. ToTs will get more time out and about. I will get more time scarying kids.

No more stress of being prepared for kids bombarding your door on a work night. I mean seriously, I dont know about you guys, but I am rather tired after work each day. So when Halloween falls on a work day it can get rather tiring running around. If a national ToT night hits on a Saturday I am well rested for the event. And yes I am speaking under the assumption that the majority of people in America, first job, full time, work Mon - Fri. I don't have a stat on it but I would bet my best prop that I am correct.


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

Wow, I am surprised by the majority view here but I can understand the reasons for it to stay on the 31st.

For me though, I like the idea for Saturdays a lot. Here's my take: Halloween, to me, is the one holiday that is all about fun. No deep reverence to a person(s) or event. It's just a day to have a blast. Plus it's a chance to see your neighbors again while the kids play. When Halloween is on a weeknight, you are rushed, the parents are rushed and it becomes more of a hassle really.

Now, to have it on Saturdays...that is exciting. It makes it a more relaxed day for all and there will be more and better displays. Plus, if this actually happens, imagine the media focus on our beloved holiday. Lately, it seems to be on the decline in popularity...though, the jury is still out on that one. Either way, it could always use a PR boost.


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## GhoulishCop (Oct 18, 2008)

Changing the day to some floating date kind of undermines what the real "meaning" of Halloween is: All Hallows Evening, the night before All Saints Day. Rather than moving Christmas, it's more like changing Christmas Eve to some floating point. It just doesn't make sense.

I'm pretty much a traditionalist, so for me Halloween is October 31. Now the idea of a National Haunt Day, and one coming earlier in the year...I like it!

As for Spirit doing this for more profit, how is that going to happen? Is it more profitable when Halloween falls on a Saturday than on a Thursday? I don't think so! Just because kids trick-or-treat for a few hours less perhaps on a weekday doesn't mean the kids don't still buy costumes and homeowners don't still buy props for displays. You don't buy any less stuff because Halloween is on a weekday. It's a non-sensical argument that Spirit is "going to make more profit" if Halloween is on a Saturday every year.

Boy, between some of the posts on this thread and the tirades some went on on the anti-Wal-Mart thread it's obvious some people have a real problem with businesses doing business. I guess we'd be better off if every company just lost money and all the employees lost their jobs. That would be a real improvement.

No doubt Spirit is doing this to get some PR, but it's not going to put one dime more or less in its pocket if it passes. As for the commercialization of Halloween, are you freakin' kidding me?! That's all Halloween is is commercialization! Unless you're sitting at home praying for the saints on October 31, you're pretty much participating in the holiday's commercialization by putting up props, haunts, and wearing costumes.

Sheesh! There are a lot of reasons to not like the idea and it doesn't have to get all political -- again! -- because of it. 

Rich


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## DeepSix (Jun 20, 2009)

At first I thought this was a joke because I've never heard of anything so ridiculous before. I gotta say I don't see the point. I'm hearing a lot about partying here. If most of us are going to party on Halloween we book the day off ahead of time. I party on my days off, there's no day of the week specifically set aside for that. If it would change anything it would probably be that the younger kids go trick or treating earlier, and that's about it. So yeah...pretty damn pointless.
I definitely wouldn't get worked up about it though. I'm guessing by next year we'll have forgotten about it completely.


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## Oasis25 (Aug 6, 2009)

NO WAY!! I disagree!! 31st of October is an traditional and we have already used that way. I never heard of anybody saying changing the dates on the Holiday. If you change on Dec 25 to something and that would not be good so just leave it that way!!


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## Dr.Ghoul (Sep 6, 2009)

JohnnyL said:


> If you're on the fence about it why'd you sign a petition for it? lol ;-)


Because I'm pretty certain that petitions going to go absolutely no where.  If the date actually changes because of this thing, I'll be completely shocked. I actually don't know why I signed that thing now that I think about it.


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## Bubbels (Nov 30, 2008)

This is more than likely just a publicity stunt. Spirit probably has intentions to try and go somewhere with this, but you know on the back side they are loving the fact that the news stations will give them free air time.

It would be interesting to see if it goes somewhere though. Just to see what the general public would say about it.


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## HauntedAcresManor (Oct 22, 2007)

throw a poll up here!!!! i doubt there is alot of support for this [email protected]!!!!

i am APPALLED by this petition Spirit Halloween has created!

instead of focusing on the all-mighty dollar, spirit needs to focus on us!!! 

bring us quality products-decor, props and costumes! that's a petition i would sign!!!!


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## 13mummy (Aug 26, 2007)

October 31st, is Halloween. I would never change it.


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## 22606 (Aug 11, 2008)

I'm kind of torn on this issue. I agree with those who said that October 31st _is_ Halloween, due to its historical significance. On the other hand, I think that Halloween being on a Saturday certainly could have its advantages, since many people don't have to work on the weekend, so they'd get to enjoy it, rather than having to rush once they get home from work or miss out on it altogether. I'd honestly rather just have Halloween recognized as a national holiday than have it fall on a Saturday, though; if there were a petition for that, I'd gladly sign.


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## Bubbels (Nov 30, 2008)

HauntedAcresManor said:


> bring us quality products-decor, props and costumes! that's a petition i would sign!!!!


You apparently don't have to deal with the Halloween Express in your area.


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## HauntedAcresManor (Oct 22, 2007)

Bubbels said:


> You apparently don't have to deal with the Halloween Express in your area.



lol bubbels, your good. why yes that is correct. the nearest halloween express to me is in college station i believe!

but to be open and honest. spirit has left a bad taste thus far to me..

-they treat their employees like poo! (trust me, i know)

wait, let me rephrase that. Spirit allow's their consignment operator's to treat the employees like poo!

-their releases for this year are bland, extremely high-priced, and recycled.

-generally, their costumes lack actual quality.

- BIGGEST PROBLEM: They WON'T STOP sending me the same e-mail about this "UP TO $30 OFF PROMO" I got 10 e-mails about the same promotion!!!!


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## Gothikren (Aug 17, 2008)

I have to say I'm totally against this. I believe firmly that Halloween is October 31st. I don't like it when the towns try to force kids to trick or treat the weekend before halloween if it's during the week, and this seems like just another means to make that happen. 

I also think that if this were to happen then Halloween would be completely gone from schools and they wouldn't ever really have a Halloween (or fall) party anymore because of it. 

This may not be as big of a recognized religous holiday (or holiday eve) as other holidays, but for many people it is one. I personally think they should have marched up the hill and asked it become a government recognized holiday instead of asking to set it on a certain day of the week every year.


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## Bubbels (Nov 30, 2008)

HauntedAcresManor said:


> lol bubbels, your good. why yes that is correct. the nearest halloween express to me is in college station i believe!
> 
> but to be open and honest. spirit has left a bad taste thus far to me..
> 
> ...



I don't know anything about how they treat their employees I guess. The guys I saw at the store last week looked like they enjoyed being there. They had this coffin in the middle of the store with a touch pad in front of it. So people would go up to hit the touch pad, but little did they know that someone at the front desk would pull down on a wire that launched a skeleton up to the top of the coffin. Gave the employees something to do to pass the time.

Halloween express is just bad in my opinion. They don't really setup any displays, props are limited, and they have alot of damaged goods (still full price). Many occasions of price tags missing. With that said I still take my 2 year old daughter in there so we can get inspired. There are 6 Spirit stores about 70 miles away so we dont get there much.

But when we went last week I was just taken back at how cool it was. Scenes setup and tons of animatronics to play with. Sure they are pricey, but on the other hand the regular stores don't carry a 10th of what they have. Especially the animatronics. I was very much inspired when I went there. I didn't buy alot, but they have a few things that I will be watching for in after halloween sales and on ebay.


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## jdubbya (Oct 4, 2003)

It would appear that the nays have it! Not a lot of support from the haunt community. It really does go way beyond the convenience of having it on a Saturday. I personally love when Halloween falls on a Saturday night, but would be against a change of the celebration date. IMO, most people who really love Halloween find ways to celebrate all month long anyway.


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## Sychoclown (Sep 1, 2005)

I vote for Halloween on Saturdays .On weekdays you have to rush home to set up and that's no fun. I have to have my kids home at a decent hour for school the next day and that's no fun. You can't take advantage of some of the sales and that's no fun. I vote for fun which is Halloween on a Saturday!!!
I can adjust to it not being on the 31st , and I don't have to rush to take my decorations down. I know young people will be in favor of this and they will adjust better that older people. If you don't do it for yourself do it for the kids , they will be able to enjoy Halloween as it should be every year.


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## Bubbels (Nov 30, 2008)

jdubbya said:


> It would appear that the nays have it! Not a lot of support from the haunt community.


Eh. You got yays. You got nays. And a whole bunch of people sitting on the fence. A national ToT day or even a national holiday seem like something that could be more pratical. However one has to wonder what the debacle would be like if the concept of a national holiday made it somewhere. I could imagine people on one side screaming about economical implications of shutting the nation down for another day. Then on the other side people screaming that other holidays should get this as well.


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## jdubbya (Oct 4, 2003)

It is highly doubtful that Haloween will ever be made a national holiday. If anything it will wane in popularity among certain groups and demand even less consideration. Based on the responses here and on another forum, there is more opposition to the idea of a set Saturday for Halloween, than support.


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## larry (Apr 5, 2002)

Ummm. 
Respectfully..

- Consignment stores have owners who employ people. Employees of consignment stores are not their employees. How would they be able to do something about a problem that they do not know about? 
If you had a problem with this did you complain?
They actually treat their own employees very well from what I can tell.

- They have lowered many price-points this year and have increased their product line. 

- I would guess that many of their costumes are the same manufacturer of most other stores with the exception of some of their exclusive costumes, which appear to be better quality. $19 costumes are going to be different than $70 costumes. 

- yes. They send out a lot of emails.

I have no problem when members voice their opinions. But when you bullet-point problems with our premium sponsor when the complaints are questionable complaints, then I do need to comment.

If fact, they have many more halloween decorations that are catered to the home haunter than ever before. It is likely that they will improve even more next year. 

Spirit IS focusing on us. They are our primary sponsor and recognize home important the Home Haunter is to Halloween. When they see the GOOD props sales go up, they are going to have more of those types of products.

I bought some of my first Halloween things at Spencers, shopped at Spirit Halloween and now upgraded to shopping at SpiritHalloween.com. I am a personal fan. I am very pleased that they have chosen US to be a major sponsor. I am proud that they consider our opinions very important.

I disagree with your opinion regarding those statements.


HauntedAcresManor said:


> lol bubbels, your good. why yes that is correct. the nearest halloween express to me is in college station i believe!
> 
> but to be open and honest. spirit has left a bad taste thus far to me..
> 
> ...


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## HappyScientist (Aug 24, 2008)

At first I was appaled by the idea. It seemed unnatural and greedy to move Halloween. 
Then I read all of the intelligent, well thought out (for the most part) responses. I think there are some good points made by the pro-Saturdays. Although it feels like it would be sacreligious to move OUR holiday, I can't think of a logical reason not to change besides that it "just wouldn't feel right."
Although I won't be marching on Capitol Hill to get it changed, I don't think I'd mind if it was moved. 
That being said, I think the chances of it being moved are very slim. I doubt anyone is going to want to deal with the legislation involved with moving a holiday like that. Most people just don't think Halloween is all that important. 
Either way, enjoy this Saturday Halloween!


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## The Real Joker (Sep 8, 2008)

Nope for me either - 
sure it's a great idea, but look at the source,
from Spirit Halloween - an idea that they can bank on


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## dippedstix (Jul 2, 2009)

DaveintheGrave said:


> Nah. October 31st is HALLOWEEN. They already took away one hour of our darkness a couple of years ago and now this?
> 
> How about instead we change to celebrating Christmas on the closest Sunday to Dec. 25th?


Hey Dave- doesn't the time change come after Halloween this yr? I think I read that someplace. I could be totally wrong about that....


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## jdubbya (Oct 4, 2003)

dippedstix said:


> Hey Dave- doesn't the time change come after Halloween this yr? I think I read that someplace. I could be totally wrong about that....



This year the clocks actually get set back on Sunday, November first, at 2:00 a.m.


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## maleficent (May 20, 2007)

Look, Charlie, let's face it. We all know that Christmas is a big commercial racket. It's run by a big eastern syndicate, you know.
Lucy Van Pelt A Charlie Brown Christmas 1965

But everyone here knows that Halloween was invented by the candy companies.
Max Denison Hocus Pocus 1993

Is this the way we want Halloween to be viewed? Will Halloween become the new holiday to humbug? Have we become so wrapped up in the pursuit of props and parties that we have forgotten the joy of Halloween? The significance of the holiday? Move Halloween to a day other than October 31st? I don't think so.


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## Forever Haunting (Jan 1, 2009)

*Signed!*

Oh yea! I signed it...I would prefer it consistently on a Saturday ....similar to the consistency of Labor Day, Memorial Day, Mother's Day, and Father's Day.


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## Dr. Dark (Aug 6, 2009)

NO WAY! All Hallows Eve is October 31st. Always has been, always will be. At least for me!


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## Bubbels (Nov 30, 2008)

maleficent said:


> Have we become so wrapped up in the pursuit of props and parties that we have forgotten the joy of Halloween? The significance of the holiday? Move Halloween to a day other than October 31st? I don't think so.


Beyond the props, parties, and ToTing what else is there? I have never partaken in any religious ritual on the 31st or the day after, so I have troubles understanding the significants people have of the date. For me, props, parties, and ToTing is the true joy of Halloween. So doing something that makes these 3 elements more enjoyable just sounds like a really great idea.


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## CraigInPA (Sep 11, 2007)

If Halloween were permanently on a Saturday, the scant number of Tot'ers we get would diminish even further. Many people are afraid to send their kids out on Halloween to stranger's houses. So, you have kiddy Halloween parties, and "trunk or treats". If it's always on a Saturday, it encourages more of this anti-ToT behavior, much to our collective disappointment.

Craig


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## Samhain.Voodoo (May 17, 2009)

piraticalstyle said:


> As the day has significant religious meaning for many, as well as all the fun that can be had, I am opposed to changing it to a floating holiday. I recommend we start a new petition to make it a recognized National Holiday, thus providing a day off from work or school like any other "bank holiday".
> 
> October 31... FOREVER!!!!


I agree with that. I actually rallied one year when my county moved Halloween to a different Day due to the school having Homecoming. I think it's disgusting personally to move a holiday. It has deep religious meaning to me and I believe should always be October 31st. Would anyone move Christmas? No, because of religious complications. Halloween means the same way to me and many others. That's so sad that there's something out there wanting to change that. I hate the way times are rolling.


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## Bubbels (Nov 30, 2008)

CraigInPA said:


> If Halloween were permanently on a Saturday, the scant number of Tot'ers we get would diminish even further. Many people are afraid to send their kids out on Halloween to stranger's houses. So, you have kiddy Halloween parties, and "trunk or treats". If it's always on a Saturday, it encourages more of this anti-ToT behavior, much to our collective disappointment.
> 
> Craig




Craig - Finally a point for the nays that I can wrap my head around. This is very smart and I don't think I could disagree with it. However I think I would be fine if ToTing dwindled. Became more of a party scenario since that is how it was for me growing up as I lived in the country. But I am sure losing ToTs for others is a much bigger deal. In my mind, I make a big deal about Halloween and I am going to share it with everyone possible. So if that means sending invitations out to all my neighbors and friends, then so be it.


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## GhoulishCop (Oct 18, 2008)

Bubbels,

_"I have never partaken in any religious ritual on the 31st or the day after, so I have troubles understanding the significants people have of the date."_

I'd say that but for a small minority of very religious people, Halloween is a Mardi Gras-like experience. That's one of the differences between it and, say, Christmas, for which there is a large religious significance. That its roots needs to be repeated annually shows just how disconnected from religion the day has become.

I don't think that argues in favor of moving it to a floating holiday -- because we call it Valentines Day and not St. Valentine's Day anymore [and have completely forgetten the martyred saint to which the day honors] doesn't mean it shouldn't be on February 14, when the feast was originally held. Nor should we stop handing out heart-shaped cards either. 

I could probably be swayed either way on the issue, though as I previously said, being a traditionalist I would generally be against it. But now that I'm throwing my "1st Annual Halloween Party" this year, having the event fall on a Saturday every year would certainly be more conducive to throwing this bash. 

Cheers,
Rich


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## Bubbels (Nov 30, 2008)

Hey Rich,

That is probably where my disconnect is. Being that I am agnostic. I had plenty of religious study growing up. And it comes down to the fact that I prescribe to Einsteins theory that a higher being is something that our minds could not comprehend. Ever since finding that theory I have just had hard times believing that any religion has it figured out.

For me Christmas is just a time to get together with family, share presents, and tell my daughter about Santa. If I had it my way, I would move Christmas to a warmer time a year. Not only would that make me consider going outside to decorate, I think a sunnier time of year would lower the amount of depression and suicides that occur around the "holiday season". Now we all know that would never happen. At least for as long as the church is around.

As for your party. Do you have to have it on Halloween? Most parties I hit up are on Friday or Saturday near Halloween.

Logistically speaking we have already adapted to better nights for parties.

We can't do anything about the ToT night unless it is organized by local or national government.

As for religious and traditional I can respect others views. I don't celebrate saints days, and the druid view on Halloween... Well every night is spooky for me. And if there is ever a time that feels more supernatural than others, it would be during full moons.


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## JohnnyL (Nov 6, 2005)

Wanting to change a holiday so you don't have to rush from work etc just seems a bit selfish in my honest opinion. I've never once held a party on the actual date of Halloween. Its usually the prior weekend or following. On Halloween I take the night to enjoy the holiday, sit back and welcome the trick or treaters while watching our favorite Halloween movies. Going outside and sitting in the graveyard next to my jack o lanterns has always been a tradition as well. Doing that on a day that's not truly Halloween just so people don't have to rush around seems saddening to me. Just prepare ahead of time or take the day off. As for trick or treaters getting to stay out later, I doubt it would make a difference at all.

Sure we all get excited about a whole weekend dedicated to Halloween but have we forgotten that we enjoy this holiday almost year round? The entire month of October is a celebration for us.

It's a downer to see how some have become more focused on their displays and own interests than the actual history of the holiday. Just like Christmas has become...

Halloween, October 31st - Forever.


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## Aunt Sissy (Aug 24, 2006)

I agree 100%. That way I can have the 31st (if it's on a weekday) all to myself to haunt, spook, play with other ghouls or just have an ALL adult Halloween party, where we can actually drink without having to worry about the little ones.


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## HomeyDaClown (Aug 27, 2007)

*Spirit's Bad Idea*



mementomori said:


> not for me thanks, for me halloween is on oct 31, whatever day that falls on.









​
Halloween is Halloween period it's a traditional celtic holiday not a retailer's free for all no matter what the money grabbers would like to have. If they had their way, Christmas would happen six times a year too.


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## HomeyDaClown (Aug 27, 2007)

larry said:


> Spirit Halloween started a campaign today with a petition to change Halloween to Saturday.
> 
> Personally..I love that. Not sure if it could be pulled-off. But if anyone can, it would be them with us fans help pushing it through.
> 
> ...


*I think it's a joke. 
To be fair about it:
Where is the link for a petition to keep Halloween just the way it is?
I don't see one. 

The real truth behind their disjointed effort:

A quote from Steven Silverstein, Spirit Halloween's CEO*,
"Halloween-related retail sales are as much as 30% higher when Halloween falls on the weekend versus a weekday."

*Somehow I just don't think retailers have my best interest in mind especially if they are greedy enough to want to change holidays.*


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## WeirdRob (Aug 22, 2009)

I don't know where I stand on this. I'm pretty much on the fence. While the tradition has been the 31st, it would be more fun if it were on Saturday. I want to see how retailers react to this.


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## Bubbels (Nov 30, 2008)

HomeyDaClown said:


> *I think it's a joke.
> To be fair about it:
> Where is the link for a petition to keep Halloween just the way it is?
> I don't see one.
> *


If politicians start considering this as legitimate, I am sure something like that would show up. But if you feel so strongly against this, then I would encourage you to get the ball rolling!


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## WeirdRob (Aug 22, 2009)

This is not a joke. It's a real petition and can be put into action.


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## the dogman (Jul 8, 2007)

> I think a sunnier time of year would lower the amount of depression and suicides that occur around the "holiday season".


I really doubt moving Xmas to a sunnier time will lower the rates of depression and suicides. It's not the holiday season that causes it, it is the change in season itself. Winter would still happen and people would still get depressed. It's called Seasonal Affective Disorder. Yes the stress involved in preparing for Xmas does lead many to suicide but that won't change by moving it to a warmer time of year, because stress based suicide can happen anywhere, not just in the snow belt.

Moving Halloween is not a good idea to me. Sure Labor day, Thanksgiving, and Mothers day fare pretty well with being a floating holiday, but Halloween already has a set date. If people want the day off they can petition the National Govt. to make it an official holiday so they will have the day off. 
If they don't want the stress of "rushing" home and getting their kids into costume, they can A) get their kids costumes they can get themselves into and B) form a neighborhood group so that the parents who have the time can take the kids ToTing. My Uncle took my siblings and I ToTing while my mom ran her haunt, and everything worked out fine.

Halloween has been celebrated on the same day longer than the US has been a country. The tradition came to the States with immigrants and We, nor the companies that profit off of the holiday, have no right to try and change the date. 
Cities across the country are already holding ToT based events away from Halloween for convenience and so called safety. If you want to have your haunt or party on a more convenient day, then put up a sign in your yard, and send out invites, saying you will haunt and party on the last Saturday and not on Halloween. If you want ToTing to be on the last Saturday, the petition your city, don't try to change the holiday for the nation for something that you want locally.


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## WeirdRob (Aug 22, 2009)

Bubbels said:


> If I had it my way, I would move Christmas to a warmer time a year. Not only would that make me consider going outside to decorate, I think a sunnier time of year would lower the amount of depression and suicides that occur around the "holiday season".


Don't quote me on this but I think holidays like Thanksgiving and Christmas are good for the colder parts of the year. During winter it's wet, cold and dark. That's depressing already. But when you have warm family togetherness it makes it seem much better. Moving it to a warmer time of year would leave us cold, quiet and alone.



> Now we all know that would never happen. At least for as long as the church is around.


Well they did [inaudible mumbling]


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## Bubbels (Nov 30, 2008)

the dogman said:


> I really doubt moving Xmas to a sunnier time will lower the rates of depression and suicides. It's not the holiday season that causes it, it is the change in season itself. Winter would still happen and people would still get depressed. It's called Seasonal Affective Disorder. Yes the stress involved in preparing for Xmas does lead many to suicide but that won't change by moving it to a warmer time of year, because stress based suicide can happen anywhere, not just in the snow belt.


X = Seasonal Affective Disorder
Y = Stress of Christmas if that is preparing for it, or even worse.. distressed over some family disfunction that makes Christmas nothing more than a dark time for you.

So wouldn't logic dicatate that X + Y > X ? Where as if X and Y were seperate, escalated reasons for depression and suicide would be lessened. Its like if you came home one day to find that your Wife left you, but she left you your dog. Versus she left you and ran over your dog on the way out.


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## stygma (Mar 13, 2009)

Speaking as a Celt, I take issue with someone who wants to mess with and change our traditions. (Halloween having its roots in the Celtic festival of Samhainn/Samhain a Gaelic word meaning "summer's end"). Samhainn is largely a secular celebration, meaning it is separate from religion. It is a festival held at the end of the harvest season in Gaelic cultures and was a celebration of the "fall harvest". Halloween is also rooted in the Christian "All Saints' Day" also known as "Solemnity of All Saints" also called "All Hallows" or "Hallowmas"

I am in agreement with most others here, changing long standing traditions for the sake of convenience or consistency is just plain wrong! This is on the same lines of changing Christmas from December 25th just because it doesn't fall on a weekend or changing New Years Eve and New Years Day to a weekend because it is more convenient!

If the day that Halloween falls on is too "inconvenient" or "inconsistent" for anyone then "*don't participate*", it's that simple. It all comes down to choices and what's important. We all make choices and sacrifices every day as to what's important and this is no different.

Is it more work to prepare and setup for a weekday than a weekend, absolutely but that is all part and parcel of Halloween. (I take the good with the bad) Do I take any less enjoyment or put in any less effort just because Halloween fell on a weekday instead of a weekend *ABSOLUTELY NOT*! Do the people who stop by receive any less enjoyment because it is on a weekday instead of a weekend, I would say "I don't think so". Has anyone said they were unable to stop by because it was too inconvenient or it wasn't held on the weekend, not yet. The bottom line is that it would be an order of magnitude easier on me and my family if Halloween were held on the weekend every year, but that is no reason to change it.

It really comes as no surprise that some "Genius" wants to change the dates of "cultural traditions" in the name convenience in order to make more money.

Spirit, SHAME ON YOU, I will never sign a petition of this kind for the sake of convenience or consistency! (end of rant)

-Stygma


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## Duke Scarecrow (Sep 27, 2009)

Halloween will never change. It will always be on October 31st. It is the day that the boundary between the living and the deceased dissolved. That is hard coded into the world and that cannot change because some company wants more money. Even though Halloweekends are really amazing. :-D


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## Bubbels (Nov 30, 2008)

stygma said:


> Has anyone said they were unable to stop by because it was too inconvenient or it wasn't held on the weekend, not yet.


My Sister and Nephew are coming down this year. They live in the country about 3 hours north of me. My Nephew has never been ToTing for the simple reason that he lives out in the country. This is happening because Halloween lands on Saturday. Sunday - Friday and it just wouldn't work. Maybe down the road she will consider taking a couple days off, but for now she is a single mom just starting out in her career. She needs all the hours she can get.

So I am very thankfull that I get a chance to celebrate my favorite holiday with my only nephew before he gets to old.

Just wanted to point out that their is more than economical motives here. But then again, stores making more isn't necessarily a horrible thing. Just means we will have more product to choose from and competitive prices. I bet Target is loving the fact that Walmart put out 0 props this year.

But on the rest of your post. Totally respect your view on religion around Halloween. How would you feel about a national ToT night? It could be like having the best of both worlds. We keep traditional Halloween where it should be, but still have the advantage of a Saturday for ToTs.


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## ZombieRaider (May 18, 2008)

GhoulishCop said:


> As for Spirit doing this for more profit, how is that going to happen? Is it more profitable when Halloween falls on a Saturday than on a Thursday? I don't think so!


Actually Spirit had mentioned it WOULD be more profit/jobs on the link at the beginning of this thread....That's why everyone is saying that....I'm definitely in favor of more jobs/sales in ANYTHING at this point because people need jobs, no arguement there.....I don't view Halloween as a religious holiday but I still don't like the idea of changing the date....I DO think we are getting somewhere by making a National Haunters Day or maybe even a Halloween Observation Day being the last Sat of Oct.....I've spent about $800-$900 on Spirit merchandise so far this year but it has nothing to do Halloween being on a Sat and everything to do with I've actually been blessed this year to have the funds to make it happen.....ZR


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## the dogman (Jul 8, 2007)

Bubbles, I wasn't saying that "X" and "Y" are disconnected.

I was saying that moving Christmas wouldn't effect the rates of suicide and depression for the season greatly enough to justify it.

A family falling apart will kill every holiday, not just Christmas. It makes every season intolerable as long as the misery continues. 

If your wife leaves you, it doesn't matter much if she left the dog, because she is still gone. You will hold onto and cherish the dog for being the only thing you have left, but you are still going to hurt because she left.

X + Y does suck a lot more than X or Y alone, but Y can happen at anytime. X is a constant.

Christmas moving isn't the debate here though. Neither is depression and suicide. 
The debate here is the petition to move Halloween, a long standing tradition, to a more convenient date, seemingly without regard to the holiday's roots or traditions. 
I think it is wrong to move it and I feel there is no logical justification for moving it.


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## pdcollins6092 (Aug 8, 2009)

Here is my input, if a STORE ends up getting Halloween changed to where it falls on a certin day every year, there will some people (groups) that will try and just have it taken away totaly. I mean, look at saying the pledge and having a moment of silence in school, that was taken because there were some that said it was against their religion and that they didnt want their kids to have any part of it. So like I said if a STORE can make a change to Halloween so can others..


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## HomeyDaClown (Aug 27, 2007)

*Petition Against Proposed Permanent Saturday Halloweens*



Bubbels said:


> If politicians start considering this as legitimate, I am sure something like that would show up. But if you feel so strongly against this, then I would encourage you to get the ball rolling!


*Ok, the ball is rolling. 
Click the link below to sign the petition:* 

http://www.halloweenforum.com/Petition Against Proposed Permanent Saturday Halloweenshttp://www.petitiononline.com/KEEPIT31/petition.html


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## Bubbels (Nov 30, 2008)

the dogman said:


> Bubbles, I wasn't saying that "X" and "Y" are disconnected.
> 
> I was saying that moving Christmas wouldn't effect the rates of suicide and depression for the season greatly enough to justify it.
> 
> ...


I still disagree. Y is just as much of a constant as X. Depression and suicide can happen any time. Agreed. But depression / suicide revolved around Christmas does happen. That is a for certain thing.

You also missed the point of my anology. Wife leaving sucks. Wife leaving and killing your dog on the way out sucks even more. The comparision is in regards to stacking winter with christmas in regards to people who are affected by both.

I also disagree that moving a holiday to lower the rate of suicide / depression at any number isn't justifiable. I don't have the numbers and I doubt you do either, but 1 is good enough for me.

But more on the point to why this came up. Simply put, people earlier on used the debate "you wouldn't change christmas so why would you change halloween"? Where it is relevant is that I would consider moving Christmas if it was pratical just like I would Halloween. Depression / suicide just happens to be one of those reasons.


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## Bubbels (Nov 30, 2008)

HomeyDaClown said:


> *Ok, the ball is rolling.
> Click the link below to sign the petition:*
> 
> http://www.halloweenforum.com/Petition Against Proposed Permanent Saturday Halloweenshttp://www.petitiononline.com/KEEPIT31/petition.html


Excellent! I think this deserves its own thread. The majority will not see it hidden in this thread.


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## Bubbels (Nov 30, 2008)

pdcollins6092 said:


> Here is my input, if a STORE ends up getting Halloween changed to where it falls on a certin day every year, there will some people (groups) that will try and just have it taken away totaly. I mean, look at saying the pledge and having a moment of silence in school, that was taken because there were some that said it was against their religion and that they didnt want their kids to have any part of it. So like I said if a STORE can make a change to Halloween so can others..


Would you be against it if someone on here started the movement instead?


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## selz (Oct 19, 2007)

piraticalstyle said:


> As the day has significant religious meaning for many, as well as all the fun that can be had, I am opposed to changing it to a floating holiday. I recommend we start a new petition to make it a recognized National Holiday, thus providing a day off from work or school like any other "bank holiday".
> 
> October 31... FOREVER!!!!


Perfectly said.



I read this post, and I'll be honest, the very idea that people would suggest changing the date to make it more convinient disgusts me. Thats the talk of someone who only sees the date as a chance to go collecting sweets or as an oppertunity for financial gain, not someone with any idea about the occasion itself. If someone was to suggest changing Christmas to always be Sunday, there would be riots. Enough said.


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## pdcollins6092 (Aug 8, 2009)

Bubbels said:


> Would you be against it if someone on here started the movement instead?


Yes, I would. It don't matter who starts the movement store, person, group or what ever, it's still the same and can cause the same effect. Don't get me wrong, it is going to be nice that it falls on a Sat. this year but I also think that it will be nice that it will pretty much be a full moon too to add to the effect of Halloween. But that don't mean that I think that we should only have Halloween on a Sat. when the moon is full.


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## selz (Oct 19, 2007)

Ok, I've read every single post in this thread now, and I am truely shocked at the attitudes of many members. I just don't understand how someone could justify changing a religious occasion just to make it more convinient for themselves! I am uttery astounded.


I personally love Halloween falling on a weeknight. It means I get to have a whole evening to celebrate and dole out goodies to TOT's, without the hassle of having to look after the party too. 


Ugh, I still can't comprehend the though process some people must have. I'm gonna dissapear for a cup of tea (or six) before I start truely ranting and offend some people to the level that I'm offended, as I don't think that would be appreciated or helpful in any way.

'Night folks.


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## Tumblindice (Aug 19, 2008)

selz said:


> Ok, I've read every single post in this thread now, and I am truely shocked at the attitudes of many members. I just don't understand how someone could justify changing a religious occasion just to make it more convinient for themselves! I am uttery astounded.
> 
> 
> I personally love Halloween falling on a weeknight. It means I get to have a whole evening to celebrate and dole out goodies to TOT's, without the hassle of having to look after the party too.
> ...


When did Halloween become a "religious occasion" and what church do I have to go to to celebrate?


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## wilbret (Oct 8, 2004)

I think it's a good idea. Really, all it does is make the day for trick or treating a Saturday. Halloween day would still be Halloween day. If whatever religion you follow has something to do with Halloween, October 31st won't disappear.


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## Bubbels (Nov 30, 2008)

pdcollins6092 said:


> Yes, I would. It don't matter who starts the movement store, person, group or what ever, it's still the same and can cause the same effect. Don't get me wrong, it is going to be nice that it falls on a Sat. this year but I also think that it will be nice that it will pretty much be a full moon too to add to the effect of Halloween. But that don't mean that I think that we should only have Halloween on a Sat. when the moon is full.


Ok! Just wanted to check as it seems you got hung up on the fact that a store was running the movement.


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## Bubbels (Nov 30, 2008)

Tumblindice said:


> When did Halloween become a "religious occasion" and what church do I have to go to to celebrate?


 My wife used to drag me to Catholic Christmas Mass to appease her grandparents. Every year the priest would open with "Its good to see you all here, please come back again before next Christmas".

Maybe you got to be a druid? The only church gatherings on Halloween, that I have heard off, are the ones to keep the kids away from people like me.


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## spiderqueen (Aug 31, 2009)

I'm with everyone who said that Halloween is October 31, period. You don't mess with that. 

Also, not everyone follows the same schedule and not everyone is free on Saturdays...


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## Samhain.Voodoo (May 17, 2009)

Tumblindice said:


> When did Halloween become a "religious occasion" and what church do I have to go to to celebrate?



uuuuum Halloween has ALWAYS been a religious occasion...that's how holidays are started. It's just commercialism comes in and makes it okay for all religions to participate. Like Christmas. (I'm not even getting into how it's Yule....) Christmas is considered a Christian holiday, but with the comercial addition of characters like Santa or the Grinch or whatever mascott they throw in there, it becomes more of a family/retail/kid/whatever occasion where you don't really have to be religious to enjoy it. I enjoy Christmas for The Grinch. I love the story and I love Islands Of Adventure's Grinchmas that's held every year. 

i'm sorry, Larry, that Spirit is the board's sponsors, but because of this issue and the fact I feel so strongly against it, I've informed many MANY customers at work today as Borders is right down the road from Spirit and so far everyone has been disgusted with Spirit and is joining me in boycotting the store. I'm sure that won't really hurt them since there are plenty others who don't care, but I just can't give money to a company so selfish. I know other retailers have thought about it and would love the idea as well, but Spirit is the only one I know of that is actually DOING something about it and it disgusts me to no end.

Just because my religion is a minority doesn't mean it deserves any less respect than the mainstream. 

And if anyone is curious about how shopping at spirit would affect my religious views, I believe deeply that around October 31st I need to decorate my home and on Halloween I need to disguise myself as the veil is very thin between that of the dead and living. If I don't I feel I run the risk of mischievious spirits reeking havok on my home and me personally. I have many rituals I do, I enjoy them all as they're not only nessesary to me but also extremely fun.


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## Samhain.Voodoo (May 17, 2009)

wilbret said:


> I think it's a good idea. Really, all it does is make the day for trick or treating a Saturday. Halloween day would still be Halloween day. If whatever religion you follow has something to do with Halloween, October 31st won't disappear.


I'm sorry to double post, but toting is PART of the religious aspect of Halloween. You're supposed to disguise yourself as not human and join the spirits in collecting door to door. It's a way to trick spirits into believing that you're not human so that they don't prank or try to take you back to the afterlife. I believe sometimes the dead want you to come back with them especially if it's a family member or someone you knew when they were alive. If they think you're one of them, they don't bother you.

This may be different from other Wiccan belief, but it's how I was raised by my mother, and after she passed, I feel the need more and more every year.


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## HomeyDaClown (Aug 27, 2007)

The entire existence of Halloween is based on religion and has been for almost 6000 years with many religions involved (not just Celtic and their Druids). But that has little to do with my position against changing the day/date at all. The whole deal is fronted by a retailer with dollar signs as their prime motivation. It's like creating another Black Friday after Thanksgiving, that weekend is very prosperous for retailers. I worked in marketing, advertising and retail for 17 years and I know all the tricks retailers use to suck people in. This is just another scheme. I would think that WalMart and or Kmart/Sears would be on top of this but instead they have cut way back on Halloween inventories.


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## HomeyDaClown (Aug 27, 2007)

*Hauntcast is Now Onboard*

Hauntcast said:

I may not let them (Spirit) advertise on my show anymore for this redonkulous petition. What is wrong with some people?


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## larry (Apr 5, 2002)

If a friend has an idea that you disagree with, do you dis-own them? Do you not become their friend anymore? Or do you tell them that you disagree and attempt to work things out?

Personally, If you disagree...great. Voice your opinion. However, it makes me sad that members will condemn a company that got ME into Halloween and probably responsible for this forum existing because you disagree with one of their campaigns.

Does everyone who condemn this idea build a bon fire the last week of October? Why not? Is this not part of the traditional religious actions? I think that it is okay that you do not. I do not do a lot of things that are the original ideals of Halloween. 

Pumpkins were not the orignal icon. Turnips were. Does that make you anti-Halloween? Pumkins were not the tradition. Somebody changed the tradition.

If somebody disagrees with you, should they abandon you? No!


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## Tumblindice (Aug 19, 2008)

Maybe we should go back to the original celebration and sacrifice a few animals so we don’t forget the roots of this “religious holiday”.


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## savagehaunter (Aug 22, 2009)

I say don't change the day. it has to be October 31. But if it became a national holidy and we all had it off then I would jump on that band wagon in a second.


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## larry (Apr 5, 2002)

I do have a suggestion. 

Go to Spirit Halloweekend | Facebook

Trying to destroy or boycott the biggest Halloween retailer is NOT good for our holiday and not good for anybody here. 

If you disagree with somebody, tell them. Tell them why you disagree.

Technically, if you are 100% for the traditions and religious background, the term Halloween can be offensive to pagans. The holiday just as many holidays has evolved where the name is acceptable. 

I live in Las Vegas. We have a more than 13% un-employment rate and it is growing. There are statements made in this thread that implies that a company that is trying to increase business is bad. It is good.
The National Retail Federation claims that spending is down 18% this year for Halloween. If this was to happen in future years, our props, materials for building props, costumes, candy and everything will become more expensive. Our economy is in trouble. Companies are attempting to be creative in order to not only make money, but to survive.

If you boycott a company like this, they have 700+ stores and a web site. If a movement like this was successful, think of the amount of people that you would personally be responsible for losing their jobs. That includes the companies that also distribute their products, the local landlords who lease the buildings.

There are already many Halloween oriented businesses that went out of business this year. 

Those of you who say commercialism of Halloween is horrible. I disagree. Most items that we build and buy for Halloween would be MUCH more expensive. Pumpkins would not be as available, horror movies would not be as popular. Pre-built props and costumes would not exist. Many people that I know would not be employed. The podcasts and web sites on the net could not exist.

Again...if you disagree with a person or a company, tell them. Do not attempt to destroy them. 

I applaud those who voice their opinion. However, please consider that their intentions were probably good. Trying to increase business in a bad economy is A GOOD THING!

I love Halloween! I have been a fan since I was young! I will always be a fan. I love being able to buy Halloween items. I love the members of the forum. I love the forum. and I love Spirit Halloween! Please respect that if you consider this campaign a mistake, just tell them. Do not try to destroy them.


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## Bubbels (Nov 30, 2008)

HomeyDaClown said:


> Hauntcast said:
> 
> I may not let them (Spirit) advertise on my show anymore for this redonkulous petition. What is wrong with some people?


Geeze. I guess hauntcast has sponsors lined up out the back door! Ironically, this makes me more intrigued to hear their next podcast.


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## OpenTrackRacer (Sep 12, 2008)

I'm not in it for the money like Spirit is but I agree with the concept. Halloween has outgrown it's random day of the week status. Having Halloween "Officially" celebrated on the last Saturday in October would be outstanding.


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## Baron Samedi (Jan 15, 2009)

Who says we have to celebrate Halloween _only_ on October 31st?

In many of the posts in this thread, a comparison has been drawn between Christmas and Halloween. Most people I know don't just celebrate Christmas on December 25th...There are parties and events in the preceeding weeks, and up to New years Eve.

Although I'm not a Christian, a Pagan or Wiccan there are certain traditions that I keep for the night of October 31st...personal traditions. I can't see the problem with having a Halloween _party_ on the last saturday in October, but it's not _Halloween_.

I think most of us who are serious about Halloween, especially those of us who have haunts, usually plan our annual leave to enable us to take a few days off over our favourite holiday. Sometimes it isn't always possible...but there are people who have to work over the Christmas and (in the US) Thanksgiving periods too. 

I believe the downturn in the economies on both sides of the Atlantic is the primary reason for the lack of stock in stores and decrease in revenue. (It's noticeable over here, too).
People don't have a rake of money to spend this year, and retailers know it. I really don't see how changing the actual date that Halloween is observed, or making it a floating holiday is going to change any of that. 
I can't comment on Spirit Halloween, as we don't have them here in the UK, but for a retailer to seek ways of increasing revenue and profits is perfectly normal. One could say it is essential for survival in business, whether one agrees or disagrees with the methods they employ.

One question though...Do any forum members think that changing the date to the last Saturday in October would actually encourage more people to get involved in Halloween?
(hard line "anti's" aside)?


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## spiderqueen (Aug 31, 2009)

I think the petition is ridiculous, but in no way will it stop me from shopping at Spirit and enjoying every minute of it.


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## Hauntcast (Oct 3, 2007)

I was just joking with my comment. I did sign the petition against changing the day, but I don't hold the company responsible for the actions of their PR department.


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## selz (Oct 19, 2007)

Tumblindice said:


> When did Halloween become a "religious occasion" and what church do I have to go to to celebrate?


Seriously? Or are you just trying to wind people up?


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## Forever Haunting (Jan 1, 2009)

*Halloweek*

I signed the petition....BUT...I what I would really like to see is Halloween remain on the 31st...BUT allow the festivities (including Trick-or Treating) to BEGIN on the last Saturday of the month. For me...this *"Halloweek"* would help to extend the Halloween fun. I am always disappointed with how Halloween seems to come and go so quickly. If the Trick or Treating began on the last Saturday, it would let the decorations go up sooner and stay up longer (i.e. until the 31st).


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

Baron Samedi said:


> ......One question though...Do any forum members think that changing the date to the last Saturday in October would actually encourage more people to get involved in Halloween?
> (hard line "anti's" aside)?


Absolutely, for the reasons I stated in my first comment. Weeknight Halloween becomes a hassle for parents and for some people who decorate_ (rushing home from work, etc.)._ If it was on a Saturday, many more people would get into the *event*. _(I was going to say *spirit* but thought against it. heh_ )


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## DayTek (Aug 20, 2005)

I'm so torn on this! On one hand, for a 9 -5er like me, this would be beneficial. It feels so rushed to get home from work, have dinner, put out the pumpkins, put on the costume, prep the candy, ect. A Halloweekend would be less stressful and the anticiapation for that night could really sink in because I'm not busy all day consumed by work.

But on the other hand, if something like this was in place, say, last year for example, it would mean TOTing would happen on the 25th, which is waaaay too pre-mature for me, being also a traditionalist. Our Canadian Thanksgiving is on the second Monday in October, and Halloween that soon after is just too early for me. 

Halloween will never be a stat holiday here in Canada regardless of any number of petitions or public complaint; Government regulated businesses, like the bank I work for, have Thanksgiving in the middle of Ocotber as a stat holiday and then Rememberance Day on Nov.11. And here in Ontario we just got a new stat holiday last year called "Family Day", which is on the third Monday in February, or something rediculous like that (Yeah, lets spend the day freezing together and going no where cause Mother Nature decided to cough up yet another blizzard...LOL), so we're already pretty much peaked in the stat holiday department.

Our community put TOTing the one year on the Saturday (I forget the date, but Halloween probably landed on either a Thursday, Sunday or Monday or something close like that) They haven't done it since and I'm not sure why.

All in all, I would not like something to be formally passed deeming TOTing to be on the first Saturday before Halloween. Halloween really only gets a month of attention and come November 1st (and sometimes before) Christmas takes up the scene.

Let's just say, for me, even with being rushed after work with all the set up and preparation, it just wouldn't feel "right" if it wasn't on Oct.31.


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## Samhain.Voodoo (May 17, 2009)

I'm sorry it just reminds me of when Homecoming was on Halloween and Okeechobee County police Department decided they were moving Halloween to November 1st instead and had stated that anyone out on halloween would be arrested. 

The only thing about this making it worse is that it's a store telling us when our celebration should be only for the dollar aspects of it. And I find this extremely belittling. It feels like another way that the government/corporations are telling me "Oh it's not like Pagan is a REAL religion." I've seen it before and have rallied against this sort of thing before. In Borders, our Religion section consists of Christian, Catholic, Atheist, Islam, Hindu, and Buddhist religious books. Off in another section, next to bargain, erotica, and cooking, is "Magical Studies" Satanic, and ONE book for Vodou. 

Not to mention they won't even let me DO a Halloween display in the store other than children's books. And we had even taken out a lot of Halloween Pagan books right before we started to display things! It really feels like everyone is trying to take the religion out of Halloween, especially corporations.


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## Dalloween (Jun 25, 2006)

Maybe we should just make the entire last week of October "Halloweek". lol

Seriously, there is a faith side to this discussion for those who are Pegan/Druid/Wiccan, etc. Can you imagine the uprising if you told Christians that you wanted to make Christmas a floating holiday? Yikes!

Jim


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## Shattered (Sep 23, 2007)

Not a fan of this. If Halloween is on a weekend, your local gov can impose laws that only allow trick or treating to be done during the day. They cant do it now, because it often falls on a weekday. I know big cities do this already, but think about how it could affect your haunt.


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## Samhain.Voodoo (May 17, 2009)

Tumblindice said:


> Maybe we should go back to the original celebration and sacrifice a few animals so we don’t forget the roots of this “religious holiday”.


Actually the sacrifices were part of the Feast held because they knew with the coming winter everything would die anyway. The animals being killed were to be eaten at the feast, and the ritual that was held was to thank the gods and goddesses for giving such a plentaful feast. It's still done to this day, only instead of going out and slautering a pig (Well you still can if you live on a farm and have the means to do so) you can go to the store and buy a ham. It's the same concept, just we have more convienient ways of obtaining our food. Some sacrifices were symbolic anyway and didn't actually spill blood. There were dances held around goats. Some cultures were big into the blood sacrifices but it wasn't limited to Halloween. Some used to do sacrifices every full moon or new moon.


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## RattandRoll (Sep 6, 2007)

I am torn on this as well Halloween needs to be a national holiday like Xmas and Thanksgiving


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## Tumblindice (Aug 19, 2008)

Terra said:


> Absolutely, for the reasons I stated in my first comment. Weeknight Halloween becomes a hassle for parents and for some people who decorate_ (rushing home from work, etc.)._ If it was on a Saturday, many more people would get into the *event*. _(I was going to say *spirit* but thought against it. heh_ )


Very well said Terra, I totally argee!!!
Halloweekend, I'm all for it!!!


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## Tumblindice (Aug 19, 2008)

Samhain.Voodoo said:


> A Some cultures were big into the blood sacrifices but it wasn't limited to Halloween. Some used to do sacrifices every full moon or new moon.


Halloween's origins date back to the ancient Celtic festival of Samhain (pronounced sow-in). The Celts, who lived 2,000 years ago in the area that is now Ireland, the United Kingdom, and northern France, celebrated their new year on November 1. This day marked the end of summer and the harvest and the beginning of the dark, cold winter, a time of year that was often associated with human death. Celts believed that on the night before the new year, the boundary between the worlds of the living and the dead became blurred. On the night of October 31, they celebrated Samhain, when it was believed that the ghosts of the dead returned to earth. In addition to causing trouble and damaging crops, Celts thought that the presence of the otherworldly spirits made it easier for the Druids, or Celtic priests, to make predictions about the future. For a people entirely dependent on the volatile natural world, these prophecies were an important source of comfort and direction during the long, dark winter.

To commemorate the event, Druids built huge sacred bonfires, where the people gathered to burn crops and animals as sacrifices to the Celtic deities. During the celebration, the Celts wore costumes, typically consisting of animal heads and skins, and attempted to tell each other's fortunes. When the celebration was over, they re-lit their hearth fires, which they had extinguished earlier that evening, from the sacred bonfire to help protect them during the coming winter.


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## Bubbels (Nov 30, 2008)

larry said:


> Those of you who say commercialism of Halloween is horrible. I disagree. Most items that we build and buy for Halloween would be MUCH more expensive. Pumpkins would not be as available, horror movies would not be as popular. Pre-built props and costumes would not exist. Many people that I know would not be employed. The podcasts and web sites on the net could not exist.


Right on Larry. As much as someone may hate how much halloween has become commercialized, we are all benefitting from it.


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## Howlatthemoon (Jun 25, 2008)

I'm on the fence.


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## Mistress of the Abyss (Sep 21, 2007)

Yeah I'm kinda old-fashioned about that. As much of a pain in the butt it is sometime sto having Halloweein falling on a weeknight (and I have to book it off to enjoy it)....Halloween is on the 31rst.

Tradition is tradition................I like things the way they are right now.


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## CaliforniaMelanie (Sep 8, 2008)

I hope nobody gets ticked at me for these thoughts...and no, I'm not signing the petition because I don't feel strongly enough _for_ changing it. So why mess with it? There's no hugely compelling reason to change the date, IMHO. 

But that said...those who are practicing pagans I would think would see the logic in this even more than non-pagan folks (or folk, har har). I today am a pagan but even as a young child, I wondered how the "veil between the worlds" would thin exactly on Oct. 31, rather than at some astronomic/geologic type occurrence like a solstice or an equinox, for example.

Yes, I truly did wonder about this.  I know. I was a weird kid. I'd think, "But what if the spirits don't have the same calendar we do? What then? Will they show up earlier or later?" At that time, it was because I was very little and believed the part about the "bad" spirits--I wasn't thinking religiously, trust me. I wanted to make sure my jack o'lantern was lit on the right night to scare them away! Hey, I was little...give me a break... 

Now. As for Halloween having religious significance to pagans today. Actually, Halloween _as we view it today_ historically is placed in the context of a Christian celebratory calendar (obviously...being All Hallow's Eve) and not on a pagan (astrological and astronomical) one. That means that the date of Oct. 31 was already almost certainly NOT what pagan communities were using to celebrate Samhain. So realistically, folks...particularly for those who are spiritual in an earthy way, we've probably already been celebrating it on the wrong day basically every year! 

I mean were pagan communities using Julian calendars? Of course not. Most pagan communities in fact seem to have used the stars, the sun and the moon, and a 13-month 28-days-each style of reckoning.

In this context having either Halloween or Samhain (or both) on a certain day of the week at a certain time of year _would_ make sense. (Just like Passover and Easter; Easter _is_ reckoned firmly as a Sunday, but it's also reckoned to follow Passover which is based on lunar calculations.)

For me, a religious person, if the date of Halloween--and I do think of Halloween and Samhain as two different things--were changed, then instead of trying to stuff two things into the same day--fun, frolic and the explosive awesomeness that is "today's Halloween," plus solemn respect for the dead a la Samhain--would no longer exist and I would simply celebrate one at the one time, and the other according to the earth's calendar. THAT is what would make sense to me.

Again, I'm not soap-box-ing here or trying to be a purist; just pointing out that the religious reasoning doesn't make much sense to me. Samhain is NOT Halloween, though we celebrate it on the same day and have blended the traditions since the beginning, when pagans really didn't want their New Year taken over and eradicated--and pagans, remember, when we do, it's because the Christian community decided that this is "when" to do it! Not the actual Celts. So it wouldn't take away the religious significance at all, to me, to have Today's Halloween changed as far as the date goes.

I don't think it would affect how much we haunt...please...I'm thinking about my haunt in May...a shorter time to celebrate? Hardly. We'd probably all just start a "full month" before plus by having an unofficial "unveiling" of our props on Sept. 21 or 22 (the first day of autumn) instead. I'm sure we would get a full month's fun out of this. We here on this community get a full _year's_ fun out of this.

As for the day having historical significance, again, it does in the context of the Christian calendar--and that only after a whole bunch of shuffling and shifting and disagreeing on it in the first few centuries A.D. (As far as the history having the feeling of tradition, I agree; it does feel traditional--it has been traditional for centuries. BUT it's not religiously accurate for those worrying about their holy day being changed around.)

Re: Halloween becoming a national (i.e. "bank") holiday, honestly, paganism is sooooooooo "new" (was only made an "official" religion in the past few years from the government'st standpoint, actually) that I can't see it. Compare it to Hannukah. How long has THAT been a holiday? 4,000 years? But how many bank holidays do we get for Hannukah? And how many schools close for Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur? We have had Jews in this country for hundreds of years but they STILL don't get their religious days so how much less of a chance is there that Samhain will become one? 

So we don't really have that particular option, probably (having everything close for Halloween in the name of it being Samhain for a portion of the population).

Again, these are just my thoughts. Again, I'm not petitioning for the changing of the date because even these reasons aren't compelling enough to me; as I said, I'll celebrate it religiously regardless and I'm not offended at having "my" date changed since it was already changed by the Christian calendar coming up on a millennium ago. 

That part doesn't bother me. And I know I'll continue haunting my little heart out and I feel everyone else will too. If sales are up when H'ween is on a Saturday (sorry, I know that's a touchy point) then obviously people ARE celebrating just as much, or perhaps more, when the day comes on a weekend so I'm not worried about that part either.

So I won't be petitioning, but I wanted to point out those things about certain pagan faiths and my feelings on that.

Halloween will live forever...if they couldn't eradicate it in 2000 years of calling it Satanism, it's not going to be eradicated now. Vote by your conscience, of course, but these are my own thoughts on it.


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## CaliforniaMelanie (Sep 8, 2008)

Tumblindice said:


> Halloween's origins date back to the ancient Celtic festival of Samhain (pronounced sow-in). The Celts, who lived 2,000 years ago in the area that is now Ireland, the United Kingdom, and northern France, celebrated their new year on November 1.


Hon, again, not to split hairs, but the only reason we have documentation of Samhain being celebrated Nov. 1 is because that's when Romans observed it; it was the "observation" of an outsider looking in and it could have been based on just one single year when Samhain fell on the Romans' Nov. 1. Or it could have been an average of various days. But whatever it was, one thing's for sure: it_ wasn't_ consistently the one singular day that actual Celts would have celebrated it year to year. ANY pagan holiday was much more likely to have been determined based on astronomy and the seasons than on the Julian calendar, which they would not have even heard of for decades or even a century or two after it was introduced.

It's very, very doubtful that non-Romanized Celts used a Julian calendar (which was introduced I think 40 years BC or thereabouts?). In fact, it's pretty much impossible that they did. Celts and their holidays predate the Roman Empire by many many centuries. After becoming inhabited by Rome, they would eventually have started using a Julian calendar, yes. Probably nowhere near as much in the countrysides where many pagan groups continued to exist. Eventually churches began telling people what the actual "date" was on any given day.

But not so for the pre-Christianity Celts...definitely not.

Other pagan days that fall on an "exact day" (for instance, Imbolc on Feb. 1) would have followed this same post-Christianity enforced morph. After the druids were gone, there was no one left to keep the old pagan calendar. The church is what began keeping track of dates and the church is what wrote "history". Not dissing the church. Just saying that in most cases, when we celebrate a pagan holiday on an exact, specific Roman date, it is probably in the ballpark of, but almost definitely not ON, the actual pagan day...which, again, would have been based on moons and seasons and not on any 30- or 31-day long month. Now obviously, the church wasn't helping pagans pick their holy days, based on a Christian calendar or not, LOL. But for the few surviving pagans (the big "resurgence" really didn't happen until at least the 20th century), they would have been druid-less for many centuries by that time (druids kept the pagan calendars) and _themselves_ wouldn't know what "actual date" their ancestors would have celebrated Samhain except in the context of the now-universal Gregorian calendar.

Sorry. I just wanted to point that out because again...this "historical" context is not based on what the Celts, whose religion we purport to be upholding, would have practiced.

ETA: Because the way I'm stating things may be confusing...when I have said "Christian calendar" or "Christian holiday" that would be based on the modified Julian calendar after the Romans accepted Christianity (which again would have post-dated the pagan celebration of Samhain by several thousand years, almost certainly). When I say "Gregorian" calendar, that is yet a further modification and one that we use today (particularly the leap years). That one didn't even happen until...umm..(my history is failing me) I think the 1500s.


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## Severeth (Sep 14, 2009)

mementomori said:


> not for me thanks, for me halloween is on oct 31, whatever day that falls on.


Same for me. I personally don't want noisy kids ruining every Halloween. I like my Halloween in with my family and they usually get home between 4 - 7pm which is just fine. The Saturday this year is a bonus of course, but I prefer it when it is. It's already hugely commercialised. I'd rather have Christmas on Saturdays, to be honest.


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## WeirdRob (Aug 22, 2009)

This has turned into quite a heated debate. Spirit has made some ripples in the Halloween community. I can't wait to see what happens next. 



Severeth said:


> Same for me. * I personally don't want noisy kids ruining every Halloween.* I like my Halloween in with my family and they usually get home between 4 - 7pm which is just fine. The Saturday this year is a bonus of course, but I prefer it when it is. It's already hugely commercialised. I'd rather have Christmas on Saturdays, to be honest.


Hey! Halloween is for everyone.


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## CaliforniaMelanie (Sep 8, 2008)

Tumblindice said:


> Maybe we should go back to the original celebration and sacrifice a few animals so we don’t forget the roots of this “religious holiday”.


How could you even SUGGEST we kill innocent animals...how could you...

...Now my son's last-year teacher, OTOH...

Okay, so maybe there IS a place for sacrifice in the current day.

(Kidding, folks, just lightening the mood...)


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## Samhain.Voodoo (May 17, 2009)

Tumblindice said:


> Halloween's origins date back to the ancient Celtic festival of Samhain (pronounced sow-in). The Celts, who lived 2,000 years ago in the area that is now Ireland, the United Kingdom, and northern France, celebrated their new year on November 1. This day marked the end of summer and the harvest and the beginning of the dark, cold winter, a time of year that was often associated with human death. Celts believed that on the night before the new year, the boundary between the worlds of the living and the dead became blurred. On the night of October 31, they celebrated Samhain, when it was believed that the ghosts of the dead returned to earth. In addition to causing trouble and damaging crops, Celts thought that the presence of the otherworldly spirits made it easier for the Druids, or Celtic priests, to make predictions about the future. For a people entirely dependent on the volatile natural world, these prophecies were an important source of comfort and direction during the long, dark winter.
> 
> To commemorate the event, Druids built huge sacred bonfires, where the people gathered to burn crops and animals as sacrifices to the Celtic deities. During the celebration, the Celts wore costumes, typically consisting of animal heads and skins, and attempted to tell each other's fortunes. When the celebration was over, they re-lit their hearth fires, which they had extinguished earlier that evening, from the sacred bonfire to help protect them during the coming winter.



There a lot of cultures that celebrated Halloween under different titles. Yes Samhain was one of them hence my screen name, but it's not limited to Druids and Celtics. And again not all of those cultures used actual blood sacrifices. The actual origins of Halloween are sketchy at best, collected from a number of different cultures to create the holiday as is with other holidays as well.


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## Samhain.Voodoo (May 17, 2009)

double posting again sorry



CaliforniaMelanie said:


> I hope nobody gets ticked at me for these thoughts...and no, I'm not signing the petition because I don't feel strongly enough _for_ changing it. So why mess with it? There's no hugely compelling reason to change the date, IMHO.
> 
> But that said...those who are practicing pagans I would think would see the logic in this even more than non-pagan folks (or folk, har har). I today am a pagan but even as a young child, I wondered how the "veil between the worlds" would thin exactly on Oct. 31, rather than at some astronomic/geologic type occurrence like a solstice or an equinox, for example.
> 
> ...


Yes I agree that religiously speaking Halloween could be on a different date, my issue is that, this is the holiday date that has been observed for x-amount of years and to change it now simply for a convienience and retail issue sounds very very greedy and insensitive to those who view it as a sacred holiday. And again it feels like just because it's a minority, people feel it can be changed easily because "It doesn't matter." But if it were flipped to the majority there'd be no way they'd ever be able to move a holiday that appealed to the religious masses. I feel that this is a HOLIDAY and should be observed as one, not a retail money-maker.

Commercialism isn't nessesarily bad for Halloween, I'm upset that they're looking to CHANGE Halloween. Providing stock for the holiday is one thing, but trying to CHANGE it is a completely different scenario.


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## CaliforniaMelanie (Sep 8, 2008)

Samhain.Voodoo said:


> There a lot of cultures that celebrated Halloween under different titles. Yes Samhain was one of them hence my screen name, but it's not limited to Druids and Celtics. And again not all of those cultures used actual blood sacrifices. The actual origins of Halloween are sketchy at best, collected from a number of different cultures to create the holiday as is with other holidays as well.


Many cultures have/had rituals for their dead, and many/most cultures that experience seasonal changes have autumn/death of the old year/death of summer rituals, but I do have to say that Halloween specifically did seem to be geared toward the Celts inhabiting the British isles and their traditions specifically.

I mean people in, say, France and Germany don't really have a "Halloween" today under any name. But the British countries do and these are the people who brought over some semblance of the old ways (a very very loose semblance...which since has changed yet further) to America, etc.

As far from the original as it almost certainly is, today's Halloween really is more a British (and hence, going back, post-northern Europe Celtic) thing than anything else. The Christian day definitely was put in place specifically to replace Samhain in the Great Britain of the time, though as you say, other traditions were also pulled into it. But only the British Samhain matches up roughly with the same time period, the same type of festival and the same imagery.

And yes, ancient pagans did have sacrifice. Just about any ancient people can be shown to perform some sort of sacrifice...check out the Bible and there you'll see it, in the very first book, in fact.


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## CaliforniaMelanie (Sep 8, 2008)

Samhain.Voodoo said:


> double posting again sorry
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, I know. Changing tradition is very, very hard. However, traditions DO change, pretty much all the time. One hundred years ago Halloween definitely wasn't what it is today, though there were/are similarities.

I fully understand. That part would be hard (if this went through--which, again, I really doubt).

As far as the commercialism, I may be naiive, but what if this Spirit Halloween guy is one of us and he really wants to see a resurgence of Halloween and that's part of what's motivating him? I mean I don't know anything about the guy but if he owns Spirit Halloween he must really love Halloween...right? What if making it easier and more accessible is his way of making Halloween bigger than before and getting people back into it? Just an idea...as I say, I have no idea if this is true or not, but considering the guy owns Halloween stores, doesn't it seem logical?


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## Tumblindice (Aug 19, 2008)

CaliforniaMelanie said:


> How could you even SUGGEST we kill innocent animals...how could you...
> 
> ...Now my son's last-year teacher, OTOH...
> 
> ...


Obliviously just being sarcastic.


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## HomeyDaClown (Aug 27, 2007)

larry said:


> I do have a suggestion.
> 
> Go to Spirit Halloweekend | Facebook
> 
> ...


They are simply trying to make more money period. They did not tell us when they started their own campaign, they just did it without asking anyone's opinion ahead of time. Also you will find that any religion (however large or small the following may be) will have a dim view of a commercial vendor impacting one of their traditional days. It is just a bad idea. I have no reason to boycott but I have no reason to shop and pay inflated prices for things especially with less than favorable reviews. 

Unemployment in Ohio is over 13% but we always have more pumpkins than can ever be sold, some of the biggest pumpkins. We already have great Halloween stores that are locally owned and are doing quite well. 

If Spirit was really interested in increasing business, why did they not open their store here until last Monday? Hmmmm? 

I know dogs don't bite the hand that feeds them.


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## CaliforniaMelanie (Sep 8, 2008)

Tumblindice said:


> Obliviously just being sarcastic.


Ha ha, sort of, I mean you'd have to know this teacher....yes, kidding.......


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## larry (Apr 5, 2002)

Many MANY Spirit Stores are local owners. They are consignment stores. 

So chances are that your store is owned by local people, employed by local people. 

Most Spirit Stores opened by Labor Day. 

Perhaps there were problems with the local permits or other local issues. Many stores opened in August. Most by Labor day.

Spirit Stores is not a sponsor. SpiritHalloween.com is.



HomeyDaClown said:


> Unemployment in Ohio is over 13% but we always have more pumpkins than can ever be sold, some of the biggest pumpkins. We already have great Halloween stores that are locally owned and are doing quite well.
> 
> If Spirit was really interested in increasing business, why did they not open their store here until last Monday? Hmmmm?
> 
> I know dogs don't bite the hand that feeds them.


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## CaliforniaMelanie (Sep 8, 2008)

larry said:


> So chances are that your store is owned by local people, employed by local people.


Yeah, that was my impression too. I was in a Spirit store last year and the kids working there (ETA: by "kids" I mean...maybe...17? 18-ish?) were freaking out with excitement that the store had opened there that year and therefore they were able to work in it.

YAY for enthusiasm at work.  It was actually a really fun experience...I went back twice more!

But that's here. People who work retail in this area are generally pretty nice and very easygoing.


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## Tumblindice (Aug 19, 2008)

CaliforniaMelanie said:


> Ha ha, sort of, I mean you'd have to know this teacher....yes, kidding.......


Oh I didn't mean you... I meant my quote about the animal sacrifces. Being a teacher I know it is ok to burn educators at the stake.


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## CaliforniaMelanie (Sep 8, 2008)

Tumblindice said:


> Oh I didn't mean you... I meant my quote about the animal sacrifces. Being a teacher I know it is ok to burn educators at the stake.


Don't worry...I don't have my torch lit and my pitchfork raised for ALL teachers. This year's teacher, for example, is a GEM. Love, love, love her. She paints her toenails black. And she teaches well. That's two for two!

I kind of figured out after I'd posted that you meant you were the one who had been sarcastic...d'oh! (slapping own forehead)


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## Tumblindice (Aug 19, 2008)

CaliforniaMelanie said:


> Don't worry...I don't have my torch lit and my pitchfork raised for ALL teachers. This year's teacher, for example, is a GEM. Love, love, love her. She paints her toenails black. And she teaches well. That's two for two!
> 
> I kind of figured out after I'd posted that you meant you were the one who had been sarcastic...d'oh! (slapping own forehead)


Yeah there are a few people in the field not for the love of teaching but for a paycheck and retirement or they are control freaks. We can do without them.


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## Count Chocula (Oct 19, 2007)

Halloween is Oct. 31, no matter what day it is....Do not upset the spirits..


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## Samhain.Voodoo (May 17, 2009)

Count Chocula said:


> Halloween is Oct. 31, no matter what day it is....Do not upset the spirits..



a-men



and I'm not saying there weren't sacrifices, I'm saying not all cultures did sacrifices. 

ugh this thread exhausts me


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## CaliforniaMelanie (Sep 8, 2008)

Samhain.Voodoo said:


> and I'm not saying there weren't sacrifices, I'm saying not all cultures did sacrifices.


Oh, sorry, I see what you're saying.


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## Bubbels (Nov 30, 2008)

Melanie,

I just wanted to say that I greatly enjoyed your post. You sound like a very down to earth person and we need more like you in the world. I greatly agree with your calendar points. Having studied history, I can concur that there are many different variations of the calendar in the world. Also being a logical person, I have never understood why we don't have 28 days months. I am sure there is a reason why it happened, and im sure I will have to look it up now. But why we still hold onto out of date ideas like this are beyond me. Well except that all holidays would have to be shuffled. 

I really think people are getting religion confused with tradition. I don't know all the specifics, but I do know that Christianity adopted various pagan traditions in order to easily convert them. "You mean I get to still decorate a tree and I get to be part of the 'in' crowd? Count me in!". Furthermore I doubt Jesus ever said: "on hallows eve let thy children harrass thy neighbors dressed in animal skin".

So I really think its tradition. You grew up with Halloween on Oct 31st, your parents did, and your kids did.


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## the dogman (Jul 8, 2007)

With the political correctness that is taking over our holidays, I think Halloween turning into a floating holiday is the least of our worries.

Soon Halloween will join the ranks of the "Winter Holidays" Turkey Day, Santa Day, and Big Party Day. It will be known as Candy and Costumes Day. After that change, Easter will be known as Bunny Day, Passover (and all other Jewish holidays) as That Jewish Day, St Valentines Day will be Cards and Candy Day and Mothers Day will be called Hallmark Day.

Really, this is getting out of hand here. Some people will like it, some won't. Profit makes things happen faster than anything else, and that isn't always bad thing. Sure a company using a beloved holiday is heartless, but companies are making a profit in much worse ways than this. 

I don't want to see the date changed. Will I stop celebrating because it does? No. I will celebrate Halloween as long as it is legal to do so. And I'll probably still celebrate if it's made illegal.


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## Bubbels (Nov 30, 2008)

Dogman,

Is there some movement happening that I am not familiar with?


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## CaliforniaMelanie (Sep 8, 2008)

Thanks, ((Bubbels)).

Dogman, your post made me giggle. ("That Jewish holiday..." etc.) Yep, we're politically correct up one end and down the other but I do think Halloween will stick around for a while.  Call me an optimist. Oh, and if it's illegalized (is that a word?), I'll be right there with ya, sneaking around to haunt under the radar!!


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## v_gan (Aug 19, 2009)

That is absolutely ridiculous. How could any of you who claim to love Halloween sign that?

Halloween is on October 31, and a stupid campaign started by a retail chain is never going to change that. 

This makes me dislike Spirit Halloween. They probably just make more money when the holiday is on a weekend.

So ridiculous.


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## HomeyDaClown (Aug 27, 2007)

*Exactly*



v_gan said:


> That is absolutely ridiculous. How could any of you who claim to love Halloween sign that?
> 
> Halloween is on October 31, and a stupid campaign started by a retail chain is never going to change that.
> 
> ...


Steven Silverstein, Spirit Halloween’s CEO, who is leading the uprising. “Halloween-related retail sales are as much as 30% higher when Halloween falls on the weekend versus a weekday."


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## Bubbels (Nov 30, 2008)

Stores making more money is bad how?


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## HomeyDaClown (Aug 27, 2007)

Bubbels said:


> Stores making more money is bad how?


No, but when they try to do it at the expense of a traditional holiday, yes.


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## HomeyDaClown (Aug 27, 2007)

larry said:


> Does everyone who condemn this idea build a bon fire the last week of October? Why not? Is this not part of the traditional religious actions? I think that it is okay that you do not. I do not do a lot of things that are the original ideals of Halloween.


*Bonfire every year* *here*



larry said:


> Pumpkins were not the orignal icon. Turnips were. Does that make you anti-Halloween? Pumkins were not the tradition. Somebody changed the tradition.


*The tradition NEVER changed only the location.*

*700,000 immigrants came to America in the 1800s during the Irish Potato Famine, bringing with them the traditions of Halloween and the use of Jack-O-Lanterns. Traditionally, the lantern was carved from a turnip, potato, or beet and lit with a burning lump of coal or a candle. These lanterns represented the souls of the departed loved ones and were placed in windows or set on porches to welcome the deceased. They also served as protection against malevolent sprits or goblins freed from the dead. Turnips and gourds were not as readily available in the Americas so the pumpkin was used and found to be quite an adequate replacement. The pumpkin jack-o-lantern has been an essential part of Halloween celebrations since the Victorian days and today is a universal symbol of Halloween. *









Massilon, Ohio
World Record Contender at 1725 Pounds
We know a little about how to grow them here.
Last year a neighbor carved an 1100 pounder and sat it in her front yard for Halloween, just because it was a tradition.​


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## larry (Apr 5, 2002)

Some final words on this subject from me.

You as always are welcome to debate anything that you wish.

Do remember that they are members and sponsors of this forum. So rules apply to personal attacks are not acceptable. Keep this debate civil. Keep this debate nice. Rules will be strictly enforced from this post forward.

As one of the biggest Halloween fans on the planet, I do not overlook their history in the industry. I do not overlook the doors that have opened for all of us because of them. 

It is re-posted "Steven Silverstein, Spirit Halloween’s CEO, who is leading the uprising. “Halloween-related retail sales are as much as 30% higher when Halloween falls on the weekend versus a weekday." If this is a fact, then the ONLY reason why sales are higher is because people spend more money when it is on a Saturday. If they spend more money when it is on a Saturday it is because they LIKE it and are able to do more on a Saturday. This is not a bad thing.

It is a fact that Halloween is more popular when it falls on a Saturday. That is what they focused on. They apparently should have also considered other items in this campaign.
Their intentions were not bad. Attempting to increase business in the economy is not bad. 

Could this campaign have been handled differently. Yes. 

Homey...You have previously been banned from this forum because of not following the rules. I gave you another chance. I think that you should consider doing the same for others that you wanted done for you. You do not agree. Great. Attack the campaign, not the company.

If you really wish that their campaign is not successful, why continue to spotlight it? 

They are probably very happy that you have created a keep it 31 petition. ( Which I have published on HalloweenNews.com and the other sites that it was submitted it too).

You are welcome to debate. Just remember to follow the rules.


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## the dogman (Jul 8, 2007)

Bubbles,
The movement is a slow one in which, right now, you cannot wish people a Merry Christmas, you must say Happy Holidays, especially in the workplace lest you be fired. I have jokingly snowballed it into a movement (probably generations from now) where the holidays are no longer about what started them but what is shown to them, i.e. Santa Day. Xmas could very well become Pretty Trees and Gifts Day, but I think a shorter name is more likely.  

Melanie,
I'm glad it made you giggle, that was the main point of the post, to get people to laugh a little. 

And a small note on the Halloween being milked like a black and orange cow, All holidays are used for profit. Turkey farms make money off of Thanksgiving, almost every kind of retailer makes profit on Christmas, candy and card companies rake in cash over Valentines and Mothers day and even Easter. Profit makes the world go 'round no matter how we feel about it. 

... I wouldn't mind seeing a black and orange cow... that might market pretty well...hm...


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## JohnnyL (Nov 6, 2005)

Kind of curious as to why the thread that was put up in protest of the change was closed and moved to a forum that is rarely ever read while this one stays (even though it is a News/Announcement thread) here.


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## larry (Apr 5, 2002)

It was an announcement. So it was moved. All items in that section were closed including the Spirit annoucement. Items in that section, merchant, and links are periodically closed as those sections are for posting of information rather than discussion.

Since I knew that there needed to be a discussion on that announcement, I created a thread for it.



JohnnyL said:


> Kind of curious as to why the thread that was put up in protest of the change was closed and moved to a forum that is rarely ever read while this one stays (even though it is a News/Announcement thread) here.


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## creepyhomemaker (May 10, 2008)

ZombieRaider said:


> It's safe to say I'm in the majority vote of not changing it....It wouldn't change what I do...I have my party on Sat always anyway and I try to catch as much local haunts/events and TV shows through out the whole month as I possibly can....To me all of October is Halloween in one way or another to enjoy...I agree it's a business move which isn't in my best interest....ZR


I agree October IS Halloween. With the grand finale being on the 31st. Whichever day of the week it falls on. 

If Halloween on Saturday makes the greatest year for Halloween sales why is there nothing worth buying this year? And it would seem to me that the haunted attracton industry might suffer actually. If Halloween is on say Oct. 26th what will make people go after that date? People will go to a haunted house any day of the week up until Halloween itself. And if the haunted houses still run through Oct. 31 then we are still celebrating it on that day and we pretty much are only moving the trick or treating date. 

I don't like the idea. I like that people celebrate it when and how they want. I always have my Halloween party on the last Sat. of Oct. but I don't want the date of the actual holiday changed. It will cram everything in one day. I guess we need more time for Xmas. I better stop now before I get going on my annual "Why Christmas sucks" rant.


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## Bubbels (Nov 30, 2008)

HomeyDaClown said:


> No, but when they try to do it at the expense of a traditional holiday, yes.


Got it. A store trying to stimulate the Halloween economy and in result increasing Halloween celebration nationwide is bad because we would then have to check our calendars each year.

So on those same lines, Cash 4 Clunkers was a horrible idea because traditionally I sell my clunker to the junk yard for $50. Its a family tradition. We buy a new car and run it down to the ground over the next 10 years. Where then we celebrate the death of our old car and the life of our new one. Its a tradition that has been in my family dating back to the origin of the automobile.


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## Bubbels (Nov 30, 2008)

creepyhomemaker said:


> I agree October IS Halloween. With the grand finale being on the 31st. Whichever day of the week it falls on.
> 
> If Halloween on Saturday makes the greatest year for Halloween sales why is there nothing worth buying this year? And it would seem to me that the haunted attracton industry might suffer actually. If Halloween is on say Oct. 26th what will make people go after that date? People will go to a haunted house any day of the week up until Halloween itself. And if the haunted houses still run through Oct. 31 then we are still celebrating it on that day and we pretty much are only moving the trick or treating date.
> 
> I don't like the idea. I like that people celebrate it when and how they want. I always have my Halloween party on the last Sat. of Oct. but I don't want the date of the actual holiday changed. It will cram everything in one day. I guess we need more time for Xmas. I better stop now before I get going on my annual "Why Christmas sucks" rant.


Interesting points. Sales are down this year just in general because of the recession. Someone on this forum said that they spoke to a Walmart rep and the reasoning they didn't release alot this year is because of the amount they had to clearance last year. I think its probably safe to say that Walmart had a task force analyze ways to safeguard sales this year in a flat lined economy. The statement of Saturday Halloween bringing in more is based of previous statistics. Without a recession, I am certain those statistics would hold more true.

The haunted attractions one, is an interesting question. It would be interesting to hear how they would adapt. Would they start earlier? Would they go to Oct 31st? Would they be able to pull in the same numbers? Would a stimulated Halloween maybe even increase those numbers? This all would be a great discussion to have with a haunt attraction owner.

One piece of knowledge that I do have is that Crypticon Minneapolis runs every year in early November. It seems to attract a descent number of people, even though it is competing with the opener of deer season.


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## CaliforniaMelanie (Sep 8, 2008)

Bubbels said:


> One piece of knowledge that I do have is that Crypticon Minneapolis runs every year in early November. It seems to attract a descent number of people, even though it is competing with the opener of deer season.


Wow, really???? Now THAT I'd sure sign...something that says Halloween should last even longer.  Nov. 1 is always a little sad for me...I'd love to see the season extended farther! And here in the southwest, it's only *getting* cool by mid to late October. This is more the beginning of autumn for us than the middle or the end.

Sorry...that's going off track but...I love hearing about stuff that doesn't just take place on Halloween but rather extends the whole season! There is SO much to love about this season and to me, the more, the better.

Okay, carry on.......


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## Bubbels (Nov 30, 2008)

Yah its a good time! Get to meet lots of interesting people. Just found out Ernie Hudson is coming. Its going to rock!


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## Samhain.Voodoo (May 17, 2009)

creepyhomemaker said:


> I guess we need more time for Xmas. I better stop now before I get going on my annual "Why Christmas sucks" rant.



Oh ugh....I just realized if if became a floating holiday how much sooner Christmas would seep into stores. Even more than it already is....as it stands, ON Halloween they're rolling out the Holly Jollies....if Halloween is sooner than that means there's that much more Halloween they're cutting to make room for the festivities...*shudder*


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## the dogman (Jul 8, 2007)

Christmas is going to seep out earlier and earlier regardless of when Halloween is.
Micheal's had their Christmas decor out side by side with the Fall and Halloween decor in September.
Christmas stuff shows up in department stores before Halloween.
That won't change until people stop buying Christmas stuff in September.
If Halloween becomes a floating holiday we may just see more decor for Halloween out earlier too. 
That way those who buy Christmas decor in September can complain about Halloween decor in August and July. 

But honestly, who needs Christmas stuff in September?


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## ChrisW (Sep 19, 2006)

I didn't bother reading all of the posts (18 pages...) so if this has already been mentioned I apologize.
There has been an attempt by retail interests to move Halloween to a "Saturday always" holiday for a number of years now - this isn't anything new, except for the fact that a big gun is promoting the idea. the attempt died away, but it looks like its back full force. Personally, I hope it peters away again.
I'm a traditionalist - Halloween is the 31st. If it falls on a Tuesday, so be it. The retailers/wholesalers make more than enough money, and have corrupted the calendar with pushing holiday goods on us sooner and sooner. Plus, moving Halloween UP a few days means that the CHRISTMAS holiday selling season is extended...
Personally I LIKE that last week-end before the holiday to tweak and prepare for the big night. you would think that retailers would recognize that the last full week-end in October is good for last minute Halloween sales - but of course, Halloween has already been subjugated to the clearance aisle, and Christmas is in full force...


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## Tumblindice (Aug 19, 2008)

Bubbels said:


> Got it. A store trying to stimulate the Halloween economy and in result increasing Halloween celebration nationwide is bad because we would then have to check our calendars each year.
> 
> So on those same lines, Cash 4 Clunkers was a horrible idea because traditionally I sell my clunker to the junk yard for $50. Its a family tradition. We buy a new car and run it down to the ground over the next 10 years. Where then we celebrate the death of our old car and the life of our new one. Its a tradition that has been in my family dating back to the origin of the automobile.


Bubbels you are too funny and yet make your point everytime. Love it.

Halloweekend works for me. Many a weekend night I work and can not get off so this would be perfect.


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## halloweenbarb (Jun 9, 2008)

OCTOBER 31 for me!
I can hardly find enough help for my haunt on a usual halloween night, and now that its a saturday, everyone wants to party. There is even a halloween wedding in our family this year.. there goes more of my help. We like to have around 25-30 people helping out on haunt nights. So I can live with halloween on a saturday once every 7 years no problem.


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## WeirdRob (Aug 22, 2009)

I'm usually a guy who honors tradition. But day by day I'm learning that sometimes tradition is a bit meaningless. Change is good and we should except change, especially when there are benefiting factors.


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

WeirdRob said:


> I'm usually a guy who honors tradition. But day by day I'm learning that sometimes tradition is a bit meaningless. Change is good and we should except change, especially when there are benefiting factors.


Reminds me of a story:

A husband was helping his wife for dinner and she told him to cut the ends of the ham off before putting in the roasting pan. The husband proceeded to do that but wondered why it was necessary to cut the ends off the ham. "_Honey,"_ the husband asked, _"Why do you cut the ends of the ham off?"_ The wife replied, _"I don't know.... that's what my mother did."_

Later that evening, the husband was really getting curious as to why the ends of the ham needed to be cut off. So, he called up his mother-in-law. "_Mom, why do you cut the ends off the ham off before putting it in the roasting pan?" _His mother-in-law responded."_Well, hmmm...., I don't know. That's what my mother taught me."_ 

Well, now the husband was really curious. He just had to know why the ends of the ham HAD to be cut off the ham. Undeterred, he called his wife's grandmother. _"Grandma Betsy, why do you cut the ends off the ham before putting it in the roasting pan?"_ The grandmother responded, _"Because the ham didn't fit into my roasting pan, silly."_


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## blackfog (Oct 9, 2008)

lol! That was a great story Terra! Thanks for the chuckle this morning! I to think to leave things as they are. October 31st will always be Halloween to me and it just wouldn't feel right celebrating it on another date. What would ya do on the 31st?


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## digbugsgirl (Aug 15, 2007)

Not for me. Halloween is Oct. 31st. We never cared what day it fell on. We always went TOTing and had fun.


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## CaliforniaMelanie (Sep 8, 2008)

Terra said:


> Reminds me of a story:
> 
> A husband was helping his wife for dinner and she told him to cut the ends of the ham off before putting in the roasting pan. The husband proceeded to do that but wondered why it was necessary to cut the ends off the ham. "_Honey,"_ the husband asked, _"Why do you cut the ends of the ham off?"_ The wife replied, _"I don't know.... that's what my mother did."_
> 
> ...


Bwah ha hah!!!!!!!!!!!! That is cute. And probably very true.


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## CaliforniaMelanie (Sep 8, 2008)

digbugsgirl said:


> We always went TOTing and had fun.


Well, that is true. We didn't care, either. We ran home, begged Mom to let us go out, waited aaaaaaaaaaaand waited until "after dinner" because we shouldn't interrupt people while they were eating to ring their bell, couldn't eat really a bite of "real" food, then rushed out to ToT as much as possible before the 9:00 curfew.

I don't think it's so much a question of being able to stay out later on a weekend than a weeknight...most towns/cities have curfew, don't they? I think it's more the littler ones being able to go out earlier in the day.

But I agree with you. H'ween was on a schoolnight most of the time (well, six out of seven years!) and we just went.


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## stealth_eagle (Sep 10, 2009)

for me I like the 31st if need be my kids can stay home the next day when I was a kid I did not come home untill I had a garbage bag full of candy if it took untill midnight ohh well and I pass that onto my kids they can stay out untill they are satisfied wth the amount of candy they get if to tired for school the next day don't go it's the one day I feel should be a stat holliday and if you are tired hung over ect.. skip out the next day leave it on the 31st and just get halloween back to the way it was back in the 80's and 90's


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## Scary Firefighter (Sep 13, 2009)

Halloween should be on October 31st no matter what day it happens to fall on. 

Because it's on a Saturday this year I'll be missing a home football game of my college alma mater for the first time in 7 years. Halloween isn't on a Saturday again until something like 2015 so thankfully I won't have to miss another one for a while.


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## WeirdRob (Aug 22, 2009)

digbugsgirl said:


> Not for me. Halloween is Oct. 31st. We never cared what day it fell on. We always went TOTing and had fun.


Well if the day doesn't matter and you'll have fun no matter what, why would it matter if it's always on a Saturday?



Terra said:


> Reminds me of a story:
> 
> A husband was helping his wife for dinner and she told him to cut the ends of the ham off before putting in the roasting pan. The husband proceeded to do that but wondered why it was necessary to cut the ends off the ham. "_Honey,"_ the husband asked, _"Why do you cut the ends of the ham off?"_ The wife replied, _"I don't know.... that's what my mother did."_
> 
> ...


Lol, thanks for the story.


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## MrNightmare (Mar 2, 2009)

I like the idea, but too many of us are steeped in Tradition of October 31st. Halloween as we know it was created due to the last day in October... All Hallowes Eve and such... 

My real question is, how would they be able to change Halloween to the last saturday in October... Officially change it that is??

Though it would be nice to have the luxury of weekends for Halloween, it just woulden't be the same. 

...And as for people spending more on Halloween when it's on a weekend... I have to say NOT! By looking at all the mechandise that the retailers are selling this and last year, I am more then dissapointed with the terrible selection and poor quality of the products. I'm just glad I got all my props and decorations years ago when the quality and selection was better. You would think the retailers would carry better stuff since Halloween is on a Saturday this year, but I am sadly mistaken. This "recession" must have really effected the stores.


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## Bubbels (Nov 30, 2008)

MrNightmare said:


> This "recession" must have really effected the stores.


Yes that is why. Sales statistics are based on previous non recession years.


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## Johnny Thunder (Oct 7, 2004)

No - terrible idea.


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## MedeaViolia (Aug 31, 2009)

WeirdRob said:


> I'm usually a guy who honors tradition. But day by day I'm learning that sometimes tradition is a bit meaningless. Change is good and we should except change, especially when there are benefiting factors.


I do find that insulting because the date is not meaningless for countless pagans and cathlolics alike. It's the eve of all saints day and it is the pagan new year.

it's an important date to me and it is an important date to millions of others. 

Moving the date makes it meaningless.

gah... I'm sorry if I am repeating myself but I can not believe anyone would give moving a religious holiday credence.


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## shafe (Oct 4, 2009)

Liked the idea of it always being on a Saturday at first but....Halloween is the 31st and should stay that way. 
Gives us the whole month to have decorations up and celebrate. 
Just my opinion


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## Samhain.Voodoo (May 17, 2009)

My feelings exactly. The idea of moving it for commercial reasons...or any reason...is kind of like a slap in the face saying "You're religion doesn't matter."


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## JohnnyL (Nov 6, 2005)

If you've got Facebook, join our group: Keep It 31! | Facebook

Also help by voting *NO* in Spirit's new poll: Poll | Facebook

Thanks! Keep spreading the word!


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2009)

well, at the risk of getting my head chopped off- I think it's a good idea to make it on Saturdays. yikes....please don't hurt me. lol
haven't read all the post on this enormous thread (my ADD doesn't allow it  ) , but I haven't seen anything to convince me otherwise. If they moved Christmas (my religious holiday) to another date, it wouldn't bother me. The date is not important, to me, it's what happened that's important.
and if Spirit wants to push this to, alledgedly, make a few more bucks, so what? isn't that why we all get up and go to work in the morning? well, except me- I am a 'kept' woman. LOL


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## larry (Apr 5, 2002)

I wanted to further share my opinion on this topic as Halloween is also very important to me.

---Hooray for us ---
I am very impressed and very happy that everyone of the passion for Halloween! 

While I believe that the idea is not completely bad as I believe that all enthusiasts could benefit, there are certainly reasons why it has and probably always will be October 31. I do respect the true history and background of Halloween. Including everything that has made it the wonderful holiday that it is today.

I applaud the petition to “Keep it 31”. I think that it is good to fight the fight. 


--- 30% ---
I do think that some things are not taken within its full context. If for some reason, Halloween was on a Saturday (I understand that it is not), then the 30% increase in sales that would be expected is not just for one company. It is for ALL Halloween oriented companies. Big and small. A 30% increase in sales for ANY company would mean more jobs, bigger wages. I do think that while the message probably missed some points that probably should have been included, it is true that our economy is very bad. If you are saying no to one company for that one reason, then you are saying no to all other Halloween oriented companies. Including all of our small companies that we see on all of the forums and communities.



--- Oct 31 ---
Do I think Halloween will be any day except October 31? No. Not ever.


--- Commercialization ---
What do I think about commercialization? I think that it is misunderstood. 

Defined: the act of commercializing something; involving something in commerce

I am very happy that Halloween is popular. If you say that commercialization of Halloween should not exist, then that may be implying that it should not be in any stores, television, radio, catalogs or nothing regarding Halloween should be sold on online or offline.

I am VERY happy that I can buy a fog machine. If it was not for the popularity of Halloween BECAUSE of the commercialization of it, then fog machines would still be VERY expensive. I bought my first fog machine for around $300. When I bought it, I could not find it cheaper. The ONLY reason why you can get one now for under $100 is because of commercialization of Halloween.

I have seen people complain about stores not having a good selection. Supply and demand is a factor here. The better the demand, the better the selection. The best way that any company can improve the demand, is to let people know about them and their products. 

Think of your props and costumes.. Regardless of whether they are homemade or store bought, I am willing to bet that there is a great chance that if commercialization never existed, your prop or costume would either not exist, or may have been very expensive. Without commercialization of Halloween, the Halloween sections would not exist. Without commercialization at all, the Home Depot or fabric store probably would not exist. Only small stores would exist and prices would be much higher for everything and selection would be minimal. 

--- Thanks Again ---
Thank you again everyone for your passion. I appreciate the discussion and debate.

Respect everyone's opinion. Stay nice.


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## piraticalstyle (Sep 1, 2009)

I am very frustrated with this thread. In a good way. Though I stated early on that I am against moving the date, I have been very impressed with the arguments to the contrary. As to boycotting Spirit... if you feel that way, then do it. However, as Larry mentioned, go to their website and make it known to them that you are bothered by the concept of moving Halloween, and tell them you are boycotting them this year. If they don't hear from you, any noticeable decline in sales is likely to be attributed to the economy. I believe the only way to get companies to listen is through their pocketbooks. There is nothing wrong with boycotting a store to stand up for what you believe in. Be aware of the far reaching effects of such a boycott. You may very well be putting people out of work. 

I am also very impressed with all of you. I have read through all 20 pages of this thread, and I never saw a rude or derogatory posting. Some very vehement ones, but nothing bad. Thank you all for having such an intelligent and lively discussion. 

Whatever the outcome... whatever the day... happy haunting!


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## Baron Samedi (Jan 15, 2009)

larry said:


> --- Commercialization ---
> What do I think about commercialization? I think that it is misunderstood.
> 
> Defined: the act of commercializing something; involving something in commerce
> ...


What larry says here makes perfect sense.
One only has to look at the UK, or any country outside the US where Halloween is not so commercialised and see the very poor selection of props and decorations in the stores and the extremely high prices of any merchandise of quality.

As I have mentioned previously, I cannot comment on Spirit halloween as we do not have them here and they do not ship internationally.
Personally, I would welcome such stores here in the UK....

I still say keep it 31 though...


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## kprimm (Apr 3, 2009)

This is quite possibly the stupidest idea that i have ever heard ever. Halloween is october 31st period, not whatever someone thinks would be convenient. I have totally boycotted SPIRIT and have told my whole family to do the same. They will not get any more of my money again period. If anything make it a national holiday, the way it should be. I could not care less if i was the only person left on this earth to celebrate halloween on the 31st, i will always celebrate on the day that it is the 31st.


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## Samhain.Voodoo (May 17, 2009)

piraticalstyle said:


> I believe the only way to get companies to listen is through their


I whole-heartedly agree which is the whole reason why I even started the boycott to begin with. And yes, I have informed them for the same reason you said. If they don't know they're losing business from a boycott, they'll assume it's failing economy.


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## AliJoi5 (Feb 24, 2011)

No no no no no this is SO wrong! I recently heard about this again and I googled it to learn more. Halloween has been my favorite "holiday" since I was a kid. It is October 31st! I don't care about the parents who don't want their kiddies out late on a weekday or the churchgoers who are finding it inconvenient to celebrate Halloween on a Sunday. The day has special meaning... October 3st is All Hallows Eve with all the myth and legends and magic that surrounds it! To make it just any Saturday would be to dismiss its relevance. We have managed all this time to celebrate Halloween regardless of the day it fell on. I don't see why this should be changed now! I suspect though, that this has more to do with those few who are interested in 'marketing' Halloween as opposed to the desire to make it 'more fun' or 'more convenient' for those of us who actually celebrate it. Maybe we should change Christmas to any ol' Saturday to? To an agnostic like me, December 25th is as much a fantastical day as October 31st and we wouldn't mess with that day now would we? Yes, I think it's an appropriate analogy. Vote no!


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## Its the Great Pumpkin (Jun 20, 2010)

I say leave Halloween alone! October 31st should stay period! When I was a kid we always had off the next day from school because it was all saints day and I did attend a catholic school. We celebrate Halloween for the whole month of October, not just October 31st! We decoarate on the 1st of the month or sometimes the week before October and just enjoy our decorations. I say if it aint broke don't fix it!  Vote NO!!


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## larry (Apr 5, 2002)

Actually, This is a old topic. Nobody that I know has any efforts to see if Halloween should be on Saturday since 2009. Since this topic is out of date, I am closing this thread as it is no longer relevant.


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