# My 3 axis skull...in progress



## Dusza Beben

No questions, just WOW!


DB


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## Dr Morbius

I agree...I was thinking why doesn't somebody doing the gimble thng use those rotating socket bolts? I see someone has! nice work. Got a vid? I'd love to see it in action!


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## HalloweenBob

No video yet....I don't have a video camera. I'll have to try setting up my webcam to capture something.

I'll get something up as soon as I can.


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## HalloweenBob

If memory serves me right, the rod ends I purchased were part number 2458K111 fom http://www.mcmaster.com

The exact specs really aren't that important. Anything even close to this will work fine. The only thing is that the rod you slip through it must be the same diameter as the opening of the rod end.

The main piece that I had machined for me was the rod that sticks up through the ball joint rod end. I don't have a good picture of it yet, as the only one I have is mounted in the prototype skull at the moment, but here is a drawing I made and a description:










I don't have the exact dimentions, but as long as you make it to fit whatever coupler you are using and whatever rod-end you are using it will work fine. The actual dimentions should be something close, but are not that important.

The rod starts out thicker, somewhere around 1/4 20 bolt size at the bottom with threads cut into it so that it will fit in the threaded rod coupler I bought at the hardware store. The shaft extends up for about 3" or so and is then shaved down with a flare so as not to restrict movement as it goes into the rod end, but it keeps the rod end from moving any lower onto the shaft.

Above the rod end I have a thin spacer made of nylon. At that point, the shaft is threaded again. The threads match the two nuts that are attached here.

The portion of the shaft going through the rod end is not threaded. It probably wouldn't make any difference, however.

The first nut is tightened down over the spacer and holds the rod end tightly in place. Then a small aluminum arm is placed on the shaft with another nut on top to hold it in place. This arm sticks out towards the back of the skull and is for the servo which controls Rotation (left right movement) to attach to.

The very top of this rod has a small hole drilled in it in the center and it is threaded (inside threads) for a 4/40 screw. This screw can be seen in the picture in my first post. It holds the two armatures from the other two servos in place. They control the nod movement (up and Down) and the tilt movement of the skull. So there are your 3 axis'

I will post another picture of the skull mech including the jaw servo shortly.


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## HalloweenBob

To answer the question posted above, the shape of the Pirate Skull by Lindberg (http://www.lindberg-models.com/71302_pirate_skull.htm) allows me to drill a small hole behind the jaw and extend the rod end male threads through that hole, attaching a nut on the either side.




























I had to bend the threaded end of the rod end slightly to acieve the correct angle. This was done by putting it in a vice, heating it up a bit placing a steel tube approximatley the same diameter around it and banging it gently with a hammer. Be careful not to damage the threads or snap them off. I would buy a couple extra rod ends for practice. I didn't need much of an angle, maybe 10 or 15 degrees. I didn't measure, I just did it by eye.

In that last picture, you can also see where and how I mounted the Jaw servo into the plexi plate and attached the jaw wire through a hole drilled in the skull. Exact location of the hole is not important. just find a spot that doesn't show too much and allows you to hook up to the lower jaw.


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## twistedvisions68

*sweet*

sweet bob you are the man, thanks for showing us this. and email more when you can
if you could show us a picture of the rod and neck mec with out the skull on it that would be great. Is the neck rod all one peice that runs up into the rod end? if so then I get the point.

thanks again


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## HalloweenBob

Yes, it is all one piece. My friend machined it on a lathe and added the theads, changed the diameter, etc.


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## twistedvisions68

*sweet*

cool thats what I thought. thanks a bunch again Ill keep an eye open for new pictures thanks bob


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## meterman

I would like to see a video of not just the skull in action but the workings inside as its operating. Nobody has ever recorded the inside workings of their skull movements. I think it would help a bunch. And great job BTW.


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## HalloweenBob

Once I work out a way to video the whole thing, I will be glad to catch all the servos in action for you.

Has anyone else recorded something like this on a webcam? The software I have does not appear to allow me to record sound with the video.

I could dub it in later, but it may end up out of sync. My digital camera is old and does not do video. I'll ask around the neighborhood and see if anyone has a newer camera that does do video clips.

I have finished programming one skull fo one entire routine...except for the blinking of the eyes. I still haven't hooked that part up. I guess that part is next, Then I'll try to get a video done.


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## twistedvisions68

*vid*

I would not worrie to much about sound at this point bob. I think most of us would like to see it work. just do what you can.
Im working on putting one together now so with in a few weeks I should have all kinds of video up to help everyone out if you dont mind. also do you mind if I at this link to the fx lab
don


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## HalloweenBob

Go right ahead. I am just putting out this info to help anyone anywhere who wants to join the 3 axis club.


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## HalloweenBob

OK, I need some help here.

I took a video with my webcam of the entire routine (Just one skull so far). I was able to dub the music track back in using adobe audition. I really have no idea how, but it worked.

I don't have the editing software or the know how to edit this video. It needs to be compressed and chopped up into small segments. As it stands now it is just 3 minutes long and over 700 meg!!! And the quality certainly isn't DVD quality. I have no idea why it is so huge.

I am uploading it to my server now. Does anyone want to download it (I know it may take an hour to download!!) and do the editing, then post it back up here in a form that people can view?

Or maybe just tell me how to do it, but I don't think I have the right software. I wasn't able to cut it up in Audition, and was also not able to add compression. Maybe it's just me.

Anyway, I will describe a couple things about the video. The skull seems to bounce a little bit when it makes fast moves. This is caused by the stand it is on, not the weight of the skull verses the servos. If I hold it tight at the base, it does not bounce. That was one of the main reasons I went with this skull instead of the Bucky. It is so light, that the servos handle it easily.

The eyes have still not been put in. All in all, the programming has gone well.

I will still be tweaking it a bit. I apologize for the poor camera work. I was moving my webcam around and watching my screen to get some views of the servos in action. Since everything I see seems reversed from the way I move the webcam, it messed me up a bit.

Anyway, if you are brave and can help me with the video, you can download it here:

http://rewindshow.com/Download/3AxisSkull.avi

I think you will need to right click the link and choose "Save Target As" to download it as simply clicking it trys to play it.

Don't try to download it until about Noon Eastern Time or a few minutes past.

My upload speed is limited and it says it will take 2 hours to complete.

Thanks in advance.


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## twistedvisions68

*ok*

Im downloading it know about 45 min or so Ill see what I can do to help ok
don


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## twistedvisions68

*watching*

well that wasnt to bad about 35min at 265kbs Ill be back here in a bit..


ok I watched it, it wasnt to bad. nice work there bob for getting it out there for us. with it being a web cam there isnt much we can do about the grain in it but you can see what you need to see. thet the work begain. there will be lots of them coming up soon. once I get mine done Ill post it to.. post any and all pictures you have bob and Ill do the same..

thanks again for your time and work
don


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## HalloweenBob

Thanks Don...

Sorry to be so useless in video editing. I did some years ago with a very simple tool that stopped working after Windows 98. I'm lost with all the new editing stuff. I look forward to seeing my video.

PS... I tried encoding it as a DivX file. It knowcked it down to only 13 Meg and it looks fine, but the audio was several seconds out of sync!

In the avi I have posted, it is right on.


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## twistedvisions68

*welcome*

Hey no prob Im not all that myself . I dont have the time anymore to mess with much of this stuff any more. what kind of program are you looking for, if any. wow 98 se hehehe its been a while it seens like forever hehehe


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## HalloweenBob

Any takers on helping me get that video up?

Twisted...Have you gotten anywhere with it?

you can download it here:

http://rewindshow.com/Download/3AxisSkull.avi

I think you will need to right click the link and choose "Save Target As" to download it as simply clicking it trys to play it.
It will take you 30 min to an hour to download the 700 meg 3 min long file.

Please refer to my post a few posts up for details.

Twisted, please check in. If you are able to get it done, then no one else will need to download, but if you are having troubles, please let me know.


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## twistedvisions68

*IM trying now*

ok the link is this






youll have to wait for the vid to go into there system ok but it shoud come up soon. I have never use them before so I dont know how long it will take

bob I got it down to 28meg it runs the same on my computer but will have to wait and see how it comes out on youtube ok when it comes up Ill put the main link up ok


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## HalloweenBob

*The Video*

Twisted has compressed my huge video for me.

He has posted it on YouTube, but the link isn't ready yet. He will post it when it becomes active.

In the meantime, I have uploaded the new smaller video in case anyone wants to download something of reasonable size. 

This one is still the full 3 minutes, but is only 28 Meg.

Thanks, Don!

Here is the link:

Remember to right click on the link and choose "Save Target As" otherwise it will try and load and play in the browser....maybe with the smaller size that will work. We'll see.


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## Dr Morbius

I downloaded the HUGE one..LOL! Man, that looks FANTASTIC! Now I gotta try my hand at the "gimble" version...You can't beat the fluidity of the motion! Nice tune too...Exellent job! Oh, and welcome to the 3 Axis skull club!


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## twistedvisions68

*Link Is Up*

I have it up on myspace and youtube here are the links
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and youtube but for some reason on youtube the sound wont work yet.if it dont work with in a day Ill re-uplaod it for every one






working so far

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hey bob what it the name of that song?

HERE YA GO AND ENJOY

THANKS BOB


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## HalloweenBob

A friend of mine let me use his Adobe Premiere Pro software.

A bit of a learning curve, but I was able to chop up the video into a couple smaller pieces.

The first one just shows some of the motion along with the music and is about 4 meg in size:

Right Click Here and select "Save target As"

The next one is about 8 Meg and shows the servos working while in motion and then some motion of the skull also to the same audio.

Right Click Here and select "Save target As"

And thanks to Don at Twistedvisions68, it is now up on YouTube with sound at this address:




Thanks for looking and credit for this project goes to Mike C for providing all the inspiration (as well as quite a bit of information and imagination!)

The song is called "The Headless Horseman" by Kay Starr

You can fnd it along with a bunch of others on my sound effects page HERE.

I will be posting quite a bit more on this as it all starts to come together.


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## spookineer

Excellent engineering Bob, nice work. And a very easy to follow tutorial too, thanks!


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## bourno

GREAT WORK !!!

And nice pics of the setup. It is a really clean, simple method you have there.

A note for not needing a custom shaft for others:
From the pics, I think using a piece of all-thread, with a couple nuts to lock against each other, a spacer, then the rest (rod end, spacer, nuts, servo connections) as shown in the earlier post would work fine IMO.

Again, nice work. Not sure if I will get around to building one, but I appreciate your work and sharing what you made.


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## HalloweenBob

You are probably correct about the custom rod.

The reason I did it this way was that I wanted a heavier (thicker) rod extending all the way to the rod end (gimble) to add extra support so the head will not shake around when in motion.

You will see in the video that it does shake, but that is because it is not actually attached to anything yet, and the rod is longer than it will be when finished. Right now it is bolted to a small paint can filled with dirt.

I suppose you can buy a larger diameter rod end to accomodate the thicker threaded rod and go that route. I don't see why it wouldn't work. You would still need to drill a hole in the top and cut threads into it to accept a screw that would hold the two armatures in place, but other than that, you probably would not need any other special tooling for that rod.

Having an engineer friend with his own machine shop in his house, he designed it that way because he could. If you didn't have the tools to make one, the design would most likely be different, but would achieve the same thing.

Just make sure that the rod fits snugly through the rod end even if it is threaded, or you will get sloppy movement (and who wants a sloppy movement) and bouncing of the skull.


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## bourno

I know exactly what you mean.

When you got the tools available, why dink around trying to mesh other pieces together when you can do it the way you envision it should be done


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## JohnnyL

Very nice! How much?  No, seriously. lol..


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## JohnnyL

What program are you using to control the servos? That's where I get confused.


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## HalloweenBob

I am using Brookshire VSA (http://www.brookshiresoftware.com) to control the servos. I also bought an SSC-32 servo controller from Lynxmotion (http://www.lynxmotion.com/Product.aspx?productID=395), it can control up to 32 servos and is compatable with VSA. It runs off the serial port. In addition I purchased a Kit 74 Parallel card (http://kitsrus.com/jpg/k74v2_1.jpg) to control lights I want to run with VSA.

VSA is easier to use and understand than it looks. Once you read the FAQ's and play around with it for a while, you will be on your way.

Lynxmotion was VERY good with tech support. I called them and they answered right away and helped me get set up on the spot. A+ to them.


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## Affine

HalloweenBob,

I just wanted to congratulate you on the design of your 3 Axis mechanism. Brilliant. What I love about it is the elegant simplicity. It uses an absolute minimum number of components and delivers maximum results. That's the epitome of good engineering. 

You can see the mechanism I built for my skull on my website. Simple, but it only provides pan/tilt. I intend to build another skull for this year's show based on your design. Fortunately I can do the machining myself.

Did you come up with the design yourself, or were you inspired by anything? 

Thanks,
PeterM


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## Lakeside haunt

wow awesome I dont think I have seen a talking skul with this much movement before great job.


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## HalloweenBob

Thanks guys. I did design it (For the most part) myself. I had decided to use a rod end as my main motion component, and played around with layout if servos for some time. After I had decided on a layout, I came across Twisted Dementa's version of the 3 Axis Skull. It was almost identical to what I had laid out! After seeing that, I knew I was on the right track. (http://twisteddementia.com)

Anyway, I have been busy programming routines for the last few weeks. I have one complete and two others in process.

I have just now started building my other 3 skulls. I will be uploading detailed pictures in the next few days


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## buckaneerbabe

Can you tell me if you purchased the small aluminum arm or made that yourself?


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## HalloweenBob

If you are talking about the small aluminum arm that extends from the center rod just above the rod end, yes, I made that. It was just cut from a piece of aluminum. Then I drilled a hole in the end and tapped it so I could screw in the linkage from the servo which rotates the skull left and right.

You could just drill a hole and use a nut on the other side if you don't have a tap set.

Was that what you were asking about?


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## buckaneerbabe

Yeap, thanks that exactly what I needed to know.


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## HalloweenBob

I just finished making the additional 3 Plexi-Glass inserts that you mount the servos to.

I actually made them out of 1/4 inch Lexan.

Here are two of the finished products (I have 4 all together now):










Making these was easy because I was able to use the right tools!

My neighbor with the machine shop has a drill press with a CNC X-Y table under it, so the square holes were cut with a router bit in the drill press, and I adjusted the table which was holding the lexan from side to side and up and forward and back the cuts.

This picture is one I found on the net of a similar machine. I didn't take a pic of my freinds press.










Anyway, I used the drill press to cut the square holes and to make all the holes for the screws that I later tapped with a 440 thread tap bit.

I cut out the main outer shape with a bandsaw and then filed the edges with a buffing wheel.

The large center hole was cut with a bit similar to a doorknob hole cutter, just smaller.

I have an actual size template that you can download and print out. I used this template to cut all the pieces of Lexan.

First, I sprayed some 3M spray adhesive on the back of the paper template, then stuck it to the protective paper coating on the lexan. Once it dried, I cut a rectangle out of the lexan around the glued paper template making sure that the outside edges were parallel with the square hole cuts I needed to make for the servos.

So I had a rectangle shaped piece of lexan that had a piece of paper glued to it with my template design printed on it.

Here is the template:

TEMPLATE

Right Click on the above link and select "Save Target As" from the right Click Menu. Print the file using the windows Picture and Fax Viewer full page to get the correct size.
There are ruler marks on the left edge of the image. If they are one inch apart, then you have printed it to scale.


Here is what I mean by the edges being parallel to the square holes:










Then I was able to put the lexan into the CNC table and cut the square holes easily with the drill press. If they weren't parallel, I would have to make constant adjustments and would not have been able to make straight edges.

Here is what the plate looks like with a servo through one of the holes:










And finally here is how the plate fits into the skull:










The back end of the plate is mounted right at the top edge of the skull with two screws which go through the skull and into the edge of the lexan. The front is screwed down to the inside base of the skull between the eyes using the single hole at the very bottom of the template. It rests in the skull at an angle on purpose. When the lexan plate is parallel to the ground surface, the skull is lifted up slightly and seems to be looking straight ahead instead of looking down. This provides a "Center" spot with range of motion in both up and down directions.

This template is made specifically to fit the "Pirate Skull" by lindberg. It is a lightweight skull kit that can be found in many places such as this one:

http://www.monstersinmotion.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/14_228/products_id/10457










I will post more pics and instructions when I finish making the custom rods I will be using that fit through the rod ends.

More to follow....


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## buckaneerbabe

I want one of those drill presses for christmas. I was so ready to get started yesterday and must have called 20 machine shops and they were too busy, so I have to wait till Mon to get started. I must have looked at your pic, drawing and videos a million times, but believe I can do this. I really appreicate the time you are spending on the how to's. Thank you


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## HalloweenBob

I hope all my instruction is clear enough.

Perhaps I should have put this in the Tutorial and How To Section.

Maybe I will make a condensed version when I'm all done and put it there.

Once I get the new rods made (Hopefully next week) I will take detailed pictures of each step as I assemble one of these buggers.


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## indianaholmes

Halloweenbob, How do I print the template out full size? I can only get a small version. I have already ordered two of the lindberg skulls and am waiting or them to arrive. Can't wait to see more of your tutorials. One other question; what size and brand of servos are you using. I want all of the mounting holes to match up. Thanks for sharing.


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## HalloweenBob

Right Click on the link to "TEMPLATE", and choose "Save Target As" from the right click menu. Save the image on your hard drive. I have added a bunch of lines on the left hand border of the picture that are exactly one inch apart. After you print the image, check it with a ruler to be sure that it is actual size.

Once it is saved on your hard drive, double click on the image and let the windows "Picture And Fax Viewer" open up. Click on the printer icon at the bottom and follow the prompts printing the item full page.

It should come out the correct size that way.

The servos I am using are Hitec HS-425BB servos. 

http://www.servocity.com/html/hs-425bb_super_sport_bb.html

Most servos are the same standard casing size, however.


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## Guest

WoW Bob, I have been following your project. You sure have put alot of hard work into this. And I know that the Haunters here Apperiate your hard work.
Do you think you will have all the spooks up a running in time for this Halloween? I Hope you do. Love ya Blinks


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## HalloweenBob

*IMPORTANT Rod End Modification*

At the beginning of this thread I mentioned that I had bent the threaded end of the Rod End to achieve the correct angle.

Turns out that was a bad idea. I must have bent the casing slightly when I did that, and the rod end became VERY stiff, exerting extra pressure on the servos making it difficult for them to move the skull smoothly.

I have rethought this and decided to make a minor modification to the skull which will allow me to mount the rod end at the correct angle without any alterations to the rod end.

Here is the skull before I started the mod. Note the shape of the neck hole:









That's a view from the top, now here's the same skull from the bottom:










Now I start the modification. I needed a heat gun (Which I had) and a pair of plyers with wide grip ends. You will see it in the pictures.

Setting the skull upside down on a piece of metal to absorb the heat, I started heating the area around the neck hole:










Once the plastic became soft and pliable, I got my plyers and grabbed the plastic area that I was going to attach the rod end into:










Very slowly, I moved the plyers upwards to change the angle of the mounting area for the rod end:










When I was done, it looked like this:










Then, I had to drill the hole for the rod end. I discovered that by changing the angle of that area, I no longer had a clear shot in there with a drill, so I used the edge of the drill bit to carve a small slot in the plastic which allowed me to hit the right area with the bit.


...to be continued


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## HalloweenBob

Here's what it looked like:









Cutting through here...here's what the slot looked like:










Then it was time to make the hole:










So now, this is what the skull looked like...Top view:










And bottom view:










All that was left was to mount the rod end, which went something like this:










And here's the bottom view:










Thought I would share that bit of info.

And Blinky, I will have them all done and operational for this year! Thanks!


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## propmastertucson

*Rod end*

Hi Bob

Nice work, Where did you get the Rod End?


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## HalloweenBob

I get most of my hardware from http://McMasterCarr.com. Go to that website and enter Part # 59915K271 in the search window.

They are about $9.00 each.


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## bandacoot

Are you using the standard 90 degree rotation on your servos? and standard clockwise?

Thanks!


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## HalloweenBob

Yes. Although the range I need to use is much less than that, everything I purchased or set up was standard.


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## bandacoot

Are you using the same servos for the Jaw and eyelids? They look smaller or something.. 

Also what servo arms are you using?

Thanks for you help!


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## HalloweenBob

All servos are the same except for the one controlling the eyelid action. That is a much smaller Hitec HS 65HB servo.

Remember, that my eyes are not going to move back and forth, instead they will appear to blink.

The servo arms, I go at Servo City. They are very small (http://www.servocity.com/html/2-56x3_16__mini.html)
I use bits of 2-56 threaded rod to hold the two ends together.


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## HalloweenBob

I have completed some more of my skeleton Quartet, and wanted to share some more "In Progress" pictures for anyone who might be following this project.

I'll start with all the linkages, since that's where I left off before.

This is what the linkage pieces look like. In the next picture, I have two linkage ends and one long 2-56 threded rod from McMasterCarr.com
(The linkages are from ServoCity.com...see link above)










I start by cutting a piece of the threaded rod. You might need to file the sharp edges off:










Then screw one linkage end on each end of the threaded rod piece as shown in the next diagram:










With my arrangement, most of the linkages end up touching each other with no rod showing inbetween. It just worked out to be the right distance. If you need one to be longer, just don't screw them together all the way. You shouldn't need any to be shorter, but if you did, you could snip a little off each of the linkages with wire cutters. They are made of plastic.

Anyway, next, we want to attach the linkages to the servos. I opened up the bag of servo armatures that came in the package from HiTec. I started with the armature shown in this picture:










I cut off one side of the arm, since it wasn't needed, and might hit the edge of the skull if left there.










Then I needed to tap one of the holes for a 2-56 screw. For the nod and tilt servo, I tapped the hole farthest to the outside. For the rotate servo, I tapped the center hole:










Then I mounted the armature onto the servo:










And finally screwed the linkage onto the armature using a 5/8ths inch long #2-56 screw into the hole that I just tapped:



















Always be sure that when the servo arm is in the "Rest" position, which is how it is shown in the last photo, that it is set so that the servo is roughly "centered". As soon as you apply power and control wires to the servo, it will attempt to find it's "center" position. If you just screw the arm on without checking to see if the servo is centered, it will move to the center position which could possibly be beyond the possible range of your skull once it is all hooked up. This could result in breaking something, stripping some threaded screw holes, or hurting the servo itself. So when you screw the arm on, swing it all the way in one direction, then the other and make sure that the center is just about as pictured above.


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## HalloweenBob

Then, I worked on making the small steel armatures that attach to the center rod that goes through the rod end which is attached to the skull.

I posted a drawing of this on the first page. I will have all 4 of my rods in the next few days, and will take pictures of those as soon as I get them. For now, here is the drawing again:










The thin piece of metal between the two nuts where it says, "Rotate Armature Attached Here" is the piece I made next. In the drawing, you are seeing a side view, so it doesn't look like much. Using the one my friend fabricated for my first complete rod as a model, I made three more. Mine didn't come out as pretty, but they will be just as functional.

I started with a small random piece of steel.










Then I drew the shapes I needed to cut out with a sharpie and put it in a vise:










Next, with a hacksaw....a VERY DULL hacksaw, I did my best to cut out the pieces, and file the edges down. I put the three pieces back in the vise and drilled out the large holes where the rod goes through, then turned them over to drill and tap the holes that I will connect the linkages to that will rotate the skull left and right:










Finally, I tapped the holes:










And now I have all 4 of the rotate armatures needed for the central rods:










As I said, Mine were not pretty, but the holes are in the right places. My friend made the second one in. That's the one I copied. It does not have to be exact....thank goodness.

As I mentioned, I'll have a lot more detail on the central rod in the next few days.


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## buckaneerbabe

Thanks Hb, your timing is perfect. I got my rod back from the machine shop and cut my plexi, next on my list to do was the armatures. Yea!!! No guess work.


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## HalloweenBob

Finally, today, I drilled and tapped the holes that will hold the lexan plates I made the other day in place in the skulls.

I found that the easiest way to get it lined up right was to drill holes where I wanted them in the skull first, then line up the lexan inside the skull and mark off where the holes come through.

I didn't even measure. I made the holes about a half inch below the top of the skull and put one near the seam on each side. You can see the seam where the skull is put together if you look close. The holes look like this:










Just remember that the plate fits in at an angle. The back is near the top and the front get's screwed down to the inside of the skull.

Here is the lexan placed in the skull after the holes were drilled in the skull:










Then, with a silver sharpie, I marked the spots where the holes come through the skull:










Then with the spots marked, I put the plate in the vise and drilled a small hole (Which I will later tap for a 4-40 screw) in the edge of the lexan:










Then, as I mentioned, I tapped the hole with a tap made for 4-40 screws, since that is what I will be using to hold the plates in:










If you look close, you can see the hole in the edge of the lexan in this picture:










Next, I will mount all the servos on the new plates, but I can't screw them into the skulls until I finish all the central rods and mount them to the rod ends in the skulls.

I also still need to make the aluminum strips that hold the jaw servos in place.

I'll document that another day.

For the Jaw servo, I did use a different armature. I wanted a longer one, so I used a two part armature that came in the package with the servo. It includes a small square section that mounts right on the servo, then a long adjustable arm slides into that first piece. I set it all the way out. It looks like this:










I will not be using the linkage pieces I got from ServoCity.com for this servo. The jaw is moved by a piece of thin wire that I fit through the outermost hole in the armature. It then goes through a hole I drill in the skull and attaches to another hole I drill in the jaw. You can also see in that picture that I am going to cut off one side of the servo mounting brackets. I am doing this because this servo stands up on end. It needs to be flat on what will now be the bottom as it will be held in place with the aluminum strap I will be making.

I could have cut a slot in the lexan for these mounting brackets to fit in. That would have been a better idea, but I didn't think of it until I was done with the lexan plates. It would not be easy to do that as an afterthought. So it was easier to chop off the brackets. After I cut them off, I filed the remaining stubs off like so:










One of these days, I'm going to spend that nickel!


----------



## HalloweenBob

I mounted most of the servos on the lexan plates and wanted to post a pic of what they look like with the servos attached.

I have not done the jaw servos yet, because I still need to make the aluminum brackets to hold them down.

I wanted to show a picture so that you can see what the default "center" position should be for each of the servos.

The picture below is the view from the bottom of the lexan plate showing the servo arms and linkages. Each of the servo arms is screwed in place as shown with an equal amount of motion possible in either direction. This is so when they get hooked up to the controller board and they center themselves, they should not move more than a few millimeters from where they are now.

If you are following this project, please make note of which end the servo gear is mounted and the direction of each servo arm. They are measured out to meet up in the right places to connect to the center rod, which I will be posting pics of soon.

Here is the pic:










You can also see where I drilled into the edge in two places and tapped the holes so I can screw this to the skull.


----------



## bandacoot

Thanks HalloweenBob... please keep the pics coming.. I appreciate it very much! 

So you are attaching the lexan with a screw that goes through the skull??? do you notice those screws?

Is that armature steel or aluminum?


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## HalloweenBob

The screws are counter sunk and are towards the back of the skull. I plan to have a wig on one and hats on the others, so for me, they will not show. You could fill in over the screws with some wood putty or even spackle, or just paint the screws to match the skull color. It shouldn't be a problem.

It's much more of a challenge to make the line where the skull cap is cut not be noticeable.

Yes, the small armature is steel, but aluminum would also work fine. I think I did say it was aluminum at the beginning of the thread, but I was wrong. Don't think it makes a difference. It is not under any real stress. If you use aluminum, just be sure it's thick enough to be rigid.


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## bandacoot

ok cool.. thanks.

Yes the line on the skull seems to be the hardest to hide....

ya i was thinking alum might be easier to cut also. I'll find out anyways.


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## HalloweenBob

Speaking of Aluminum, I did use some here for the clamps that hold down the jaw servo for each skull.

First, since I did not cut a slot into the lexan plate, I had to shave off the mounting brackets on the side furthest away from the servo gear on the servo which will be controlling the jaw motion.










Then, I had to file down the stub that was left so the servo will sit flat on it's edge










Then it was time to make the brackets:










I started with some strips of aluminum I cut out with a hacksaw...(new blade this time)

Then I measured out the dimensions of the servo casing leaving a half an inch on each side for the 'feet' of the bracket.










I cut off the extra length with the hacksaw, then bent the aluminum strips on the marks I made so they would fit tightly around the servo. Here's what they looked like:










I checked them all by fitting them around one of the servos like so:










Then I drilled out the mounting holes. I used 4-40 screws again here to hold the brackets down, so use an appropriate drill bit for the screw you are using. Remember earlier when we made the lexan plates we tapped these holes for a 4-40 screw.










Finally, I mounted the bracket over the servo on the lexan plate.

Here's a couple shots at different angles:


----------



## HalloweenBob

*...But how much will it COST??*

I thought I should take a minute to document how much money you might be spending to duplicate this project.

First, I will list a bunch of misc. items that I did not pay for, because either myself, or my friend with the machine shop had laying around, so I didn't buy them, and I am not sure of the cost.

These items are as follows:

Tools - Including hacksaw and blades, heat gun, drill press, band saw, lathe (or the cost of hiring a machine shop) as well as standard tools, like screwdrivers, plyers, cutters, a vise, etc.

Hardware - Extra pieces of steel, aluminum, welding wire, Threaded rods, nuts bolts and screws, stain and paint, and whatever material you will use for the skull's body and clothes and a wig or hat if you decide to use one.

A computer to run it all. (I did buy a dedicated machine for this, but it was an old used one from ebay for about $50.00 plus shipping. You may have an old one laying around.

Wire to extend all the servo wires with to connect to the controller board. (I also bought multipin plugs and jacks to make the connection modular)

Lights and a kit 74 or similar board if you plan on using it to enhance your setup. Cost will depend on how extravegant you plan to get.

Now for the tangible costs.

First, the skull itself. The Pirate Skull from Lindberg is between $15.00 and $20.00 at most retailers. We'll go with $20.00 because you will probably be paying shipping as well...so:


skull - $20.00
5 servos - $70.00
Sheet of 1/4" Lexan - $18.00
Rod End - $9.00
Servo Linkages - $4.50
Bag of wooden balls from Michaels to make eyes with - $3.00
Brookshire Software's VSA - $55.00
Lynxmotion SSC-32 Servo Controller Board - $40.00

...not letting your wife find out how much you spent - Priceless!

Total cost for one skull like the one I am detailing in this thread not counting the misc. materials and tools mentioned above: $219.50


I wanted you to be prepared for the costs involved before starting.

I am buliding 4 of these suckers! Of course, I only need to include the cost of the computer, VSA software, SSC-32 borad, kit74 board, sheet of lexan, etc once. They will control ALL the skulls, so the main expense for each additional skull is the servos, and the skull itself.

Hope that doesn't scare anyone away! I know we don't scare easily around here.


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## Evil Bob

It's an investment! And you also need to get the beefy power supply for the servos.


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## HalloweenBob

Forgot about the power supply!

I bought a 5 AMP 5 VDC supply on ebay for about $40.00 after shipping.

Actually, it has one 5VDC 5 AMP output and 2 adjustable 2 AMP outputs - (0-12VDC)


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## buckaneerbabe

...not letting your wife find out how much you spent - Priceless!

Or husband...hehehe


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## bandacoot

Hey HalloweenBob... can you let us know what Power Supply you are using specifically? Thanks...


----------



## HalloweenBob

The exact type of power supply isn't all that important. What is important is that you have one that produces 5 or 6 volts DC with plenty of current.

I hope mine is good enough for the task. I haven't tested it with all four skulls running at once. I hope to have all 4 skulls put together and ready to test next week.

My power supply is giving me 5 VDC at 5 amps. It also has two additional outputs which can provide 0 - 30 VDC at up to 1 amp each. I use the 5 AMP output for all the servos, and the other two outputs power the SSC-32 board and the Kit 74 board. (Earlier I said the extra two outputs were 0-12 VDC. That was a mistake. They are 0-30 VDC and each output is only 1 AMP. I was writing from memory and hadn't looked at the actual unit first.)

Here is a picture of what I am using:










I found this on ebay while searching for DC power supply. It was a good price, so I bought it. Not very compact, but that isn't a problem in my situation.

I will report back to let you know if a 5 AMP output is good enough to run 18 servos as soon as I get to test it out next week.

Does anyone know off hand if I have made a mistake, or will the 5 AMP 5 VDC output be enough?


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## Evil Bob

I hope not, 'cause that's what I plan on doing! Well, two 5v 3A power supplies. Do you need to do anything special to keep your servo controller cool? I was thinking of putting in a muffin fan.


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## bandacoot

That is like the one I was looking at. I was curious to see if you had a smaller one or not.

The HS-425BB use 180mA (no load operating). So you should be able to power around 27 servos with the 5 amp PS.... right?


----------



## HalloweenBob

I guess you are right with those calculations, however, they will all have a load.


I hadn't thought of heat issues with the controller. I actually never checked to see how hot it gets.

Does it get very hot?

Again, I have not tested it yet with all channels running.


----------



## DIY Guy

Not sure how much juice you need for the servos, but you guys might want to look at an atx power supply.

It will give you 5v and 12v.. i think 3.3v too?

The real plus is it's regulated, especially the 5v where all your money is. I think the 5v is ±5% and 12v is ±10%

Be careful with cheap transformers, the dc output will vary with the line voltage going in.

Bob has a nice bench transformer which is giving him clean power.

Why do i know this.. I am looking at using it to power some blacklight LEDs I'm tinkering with (look for a thread on this in the coming weeks).

And thanks for all the info Bob. Don't think it's something I can tackle this year. But it gives me something to think about at work.. er during my lunch break 

Tim


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## Dr Morbius

How much current does an ATX power supply put out at 5V?


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## DIY Guy

The power out will ultimately depend on what size ATX power supply you use. However, the 350w ps I have will do 32A/185w at 5v and 26A/312W at 12v. Of course these are not concurrent; the max output cannot exceed the rating of the ps.

The nice thing is that most of us have.... or know somebody who has.. an old computer laying around that you can scavenge a nice power source from.

Tim


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## Dr Morbius

32 amps would fry my servos..wouldn't it? I'm only using 4-6 at a time. do you use resistors to limit the current? Ooops I didn;t mean to hijack this thread. Sorry, HalloweenBob...This is my last post here on the subject. Looking forward to seeing your eye mech!


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## Guest

doc, a high amperage power supply will NOT fry servos or any other device. a device will only draw the amps it needs to operate. There is no need to place resistors in the circuit.


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## Dr Morbius

Thanks spookster..I'll try an ATX...Heck I have about a hundred of em!


----------



## HalloweenBob

*Center Rod Update*

My friend finally got me the rest of my center rods so I can put this whole group together.

I wanted to outline this part for everyone as it is the central part to the whole project.

First, Here it is completly unassembled:









Here are the dimensions and specs:









The only part that is missing is the rod end. The rod end is part of this assembly, but it is already mounted in the skull, so the center rod needs to be assembled in the skull. 

I will go through the order of assembly outside of the skull because it is easier to see that way. The only step that would be missing would be the first step where the rod is inserted into the rod end that is attached to the skull.

After insertint the rod into the rod end, you would take the beveled spacer.....

It looks like this:
















and slip it over the top of the center rod with the beveled side down like so:










The rod end would be filling the space you see between the bevel at the top of the wide portion of the center rod, and the beveled spacer. The rod itself, the beveled spacer and the rotate armature (Which I will show later) were all custom machined for this project.

Next we add a nut over the top of the Beveled Spacer to hold it tight to the Rod End so we don't get sloppy movement.










Now it's time to add the Rotate Armature that I cut out of steel earlier in this post. Here's how it goes:










Now, another nut on top of the Rotate Armature to hold it tightly in place so it won't move:











Just to show you, this armature has a small hole which was tapped for a 2-56 screw which will hold the rotate servo linkage. That screw goes in here:


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## HalloweenBob

Now a look at the very top of the center rod. It has a small hole drilled in it which is also tapped for a 2-56 screw. This is the hole that you attach the tilt and nod servo linkages to. The two linkages sit on top of the rod, one on top of the other, and the screw goes through them both and into the rod:










You can see how the screw goes into the top here:










That's the whole thing for the center rod.

Here's how it goes into the skull. Remember, we left out the rod end step since it was already attached to the skull.


















Then, flip the skull over, and add the beveled spacer over the rod end like so:











Just follow all the steps laid out above, adding all the pieces in the same order with the skull and Rod End now in place.

As soon as I get all 4 skulls put together and tweaked, I will post another video with them all going.

...Any Question?


----------



## Guest

I have been following your work, and I was wondering what happen to the pic's in the post. number #79. The work you are doing is so cool. Good Luck.


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## HalloweenBob

I see all the pics in post #79. Try refreshing your page.


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## HalloweenBob

My wife took a picture of me working in my makeshift workshop. My basement.

Here's what it looks like so far:










Just me and my friends hanging out. I am busy tweaking and adjusting VSA commands.


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## buckaneerbabe

HB, I'm building my skull with a threaded rod not tapered. Do you think it's necessary to use a spacer also on the underside of the rod end between the bolt holding it in place?


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## buckaneerbabe

I think I do need a spacer. When I tighten the bolt underneath the rod end I don't get as much range of motion as when I loosen it up a bit. I think that the beveled spaced will make the difference.


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## HalloweenBob

Yes, that's the whole reason for the tapering. To give you more range of motion.


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## Dr Morbius

Terrific How-to, there Bob...I wonder though...could you use two beveled spacers back to back instead of machining a bevel into the rod itself? Also, what is the outer diameter of the rod, both the large and the thinner end?


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## Guest

Sorry Bob, Its was this computer for some reason it will not load the pic's But I did see them on another computer, GREAT WORK. BTW nice work area. I wish i had a basement.


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## buckaneerbabe

Where do you get beveled spacers? I just got back from 2 hardware stores and looking at the McMaster-Carr Web and can't find any. And I thought McMasters had everything. Is this something that you had machined also? Or maybe called something different? I have some nylon spacers that if I can't find any might have to try shaving off to work. Thanks for your help!


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## HalloweenBob

Yes, the central rod and beveled spacers were machined by my friend with the machine shop. There may be something like that out there, but I had them made.

I also need to note that I am having some trouble with alignment after modifying the skulld to mount the rod ends on. You have to be sure that the top of the central rod is centered between all the servos. All servo linkage bars need to be at 90 degree angles from each other and from the central rod, or they will all start working against each other.

I find it will involve a bit of tweaking before I get right.


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## buckaneerbabe

I'm, sorry HB, you had already stated that the beveled spacer was custom machined. DUH!!! If I could learn to pay attention maybe I could finish this but I get way too excited when you do updates.


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## HalloweenBob

Keep watching. I will have another update on my alignment issues soon. Going to try to get it worked out today.

This one will be awesome if it works as expected.

A full post with pictures (Of Course) will be included once I get it done.


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## HalloweenBob

Dr Morbius,

Sorry, I missed your question earlier.

Yes, I don't see why you couldn't use 2 beveled spacers with a nut on either side to hold them into place. Should have the same effect.

Problem is, you still have to machine those beveled spacers. I haven't found anything like them for sale.

The other reason I wanted the thicker main rod was for better support and more rigidity. With a long 3/16 rod, you might get some shaking and swaying when the skull moves.


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## HalloweenBob

OK, I have made a fix.

First, let me recap.

Very early on in the thread on the first page, I mentioned that I needed to bend the shaft of the rod end that attaches to the skull in order to get the correct alignment within the skull with respect to all the servos.

Then I realized that this had damaged the rod end, so I decided to modify the skull with a heatgun and mount the rod end on the modified skull......MORE problems. Each skull I modified came out at slightly different angles. Making this mod also ended up lowering the position of the rod end within the skull. All of this combined caused real problems when I hooked everything back up. The skull would not run off the same program as before because all the servo arms were out of alignment becuase of the rod end.

So I thought and thought and then thought some more about how to mount the rod end so it would be aligned exactly the same in every skull. Just where I needed it so that the servo linkages all line up right.

Everything needs to be 90 degrees from everything else in order for them to work, otherwise each servo will start affecting the other servos and they will fight each other.

Then it came to me. I didn't need to mount the rod end in the skull at all! I could attach it to the lexan plate! The plate is screwed to the skull so it will move with the plate and the result will be the same.

This solved a multitude of problems! It makes it easier to hook up the tiny screws to the center rod that hold the linkages on, It keeps the rod end exactly where it's needed and can be precisely reproduced in every skull no matter how the angles may vary, and it makes mounting and removing the mechanism MUCH easier. In fact, it is now all one piece ready to drop into any skull.

Here are pictures of what I did. I started with some raw steel. Actually, this was a part for a garage door, but it would have been just as easy to cut and bend a piece of a steel sheet. Here is what I started with. I have already drawn the outline of what I was going to cut out on it.










Then I put it in the vise and started cutting and drilling.










When I was done, I ended up with this:










The bottom is measured out to fit around a servo, and slips under the servo bracket for the "Nod" servo in the lexan plate. I removed the screws from that servo, slid the bracket under the servo mounts, and screwed the screws back in (actually, I used longer screws) to hold down both the new bracket, and the servo.










Here are some other angles:




























You can see where I bolted the rod end into this bracket. The mounting hole for the rod end is 1 11/16" up from the feet of the bracket and is roughly centered. Be sure to adjust your mounting hole so that the center rod extends through the neck hole of the skull in the center and has enough clearence on all sides so that movement is not restricted.

I had to re-adjust all the servo arms, and actually used different arms. These are two piece arms that you can slide in or out to change the alignment of the linkage. These also sit higher up on the servo giving me clearence to mount some of the linkages under the arm instead of over it.

The servo arms came in the package with the servo. The servo box looks like this:









And the small package of servo arms that comes inside looks like this:









This package contains the adjustable servo arms that I am using.

The tilt servo linkage should come in at 90 degrees from the nod servo linkage when the center rod is straight up and down. They should be mounted so that they are at the least possible angle, making them as parallel to the lexan plate as possible. Keep adjusting the servo arms so that all linkages are either parallel to each other or at 90 degrees to each other. 

I hooked up the mechanism again and tested it with the program I originally made and it is working again now that my alignment has been corrected.


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## Dr Morbius

That's really cool, in that it is now a self contained mech...no advantage to it, really, just very elegant. Nice solution...you genius you.


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## BATFLY

isn't that a cool and weird feeling when you figure something out all of a sudden?! for me when that happens on a tough project it's like i don't believe myself at first. kind of like, "no, it can't be that simple". 

very nice solution indeed! i love the drop and screw method of it. (wait that didn't sound right =P )


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## bandacoot

Bravo halloweenBob! Looks like you came up with an excellent solution there! Thanks for the update! Keep em coming!


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## joesmo

HalloweenBob, thanks for the inspiration and tutorial. I just got my bucky up and running. It feels like Christmas morning. I need some input on why my servos are not responding when I run Brookshire VSA. They work fine when I run with the Parallax program but not the VSA. The controller is receiving the signal but no movement. Anybody had this problem. I've got a msg into tech support but I remember a thread about them being very slow in responding. Thanks


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## HalloweenBob

Make sure your controller board is running at the right baud rate. I forget the actual setting, but it should be set for the fastest one. My SSC-32 board came with the baud rate set at 9600. It did nothing. After a call to tech help, they explained it to me. I changed the jumper on the board and everything came to life.

I'd love to see some pics of your creation.


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## thedudedrummer

yea I had the same problems with the baud rate on my board as well, just one click and the dang servos started working lol! Show us some picts!


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## joesmo

*Kudos to tech support*

You guys were right, it was the baud rate. But I have to credit tech support for their quick response. They even beat you guys with a reply. I'm impressed and in the future will not take anybody elses bad experience with tech support as gospel. It's up and moving but the does a baud rate of 2400 sound right?


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## HalloweenBob

I think mine was even higher. It was the maximum allowed on my board.

But as long as it's working, you're good!


----------



## Rooey

I just wanted to chime in real quick here... This thread is the reason I joined the Halloween Forum... What a fantastic job you're doing on the 3 axis skull! I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to use many of your ideas and see what I can come up with also. I'll be sure to share any info as well. This is my new favorite site!

This will actually be my first animatronic project. I've already received my threaded rod (1/2" outside diameter), rod end (1/2" inside diameter) from McMaster. I'm going to see if I can make it work with the larger components. I also just ordered a Pirate Skull like yours, but haven't received it just yet.

I was just tearing apart on old CD-Rom drive and found an interesting little motor/screw-drive combination... Maybe I can find some way to use that for the left and right eye movement somehow? It's nice and compact. Has anyone else considered using CD-Rom parts for their animatronics? I think this one only requires 9volts.

If not, I can always use normal servos.


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## HalloweenBob

Glad to have inspired you. This thread is a result of me being inspired by others here and their work.

Have never thought of using the parts from a CD rom drive, but it sounds do-able. You should be able to use larger components without any trouble. Please post pics and let us know how it is coming along.


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## Rooey

Also, as an FYI to you all. I have stumbled on a neat little site for renting specialty videos. It works similar to NetFlix, but is focused more on educational videos. Subjects include welding, sculpting, molding and casting, Special Effects, etc... it is SmartFlix dot com. The titles are usually about $9.99 to rent, but considering that most of the titles are between $20-$50 and up when purchasing, it's a bargain. 

I wanted to learn about the casting and molding just in case I need to create a custom piece out of clay or wood, but want to cast it in resin, or be able to reproduce more quantities.


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## Rooey

Sorry to be a Board Hog.... Here's a picture of the CDROM drive motor I mentioned....


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## bw1

If you are doing a skull you already have a servo controller. You will save yourself a lot of time and effort if you stick with servos. Servo City has some very small ones in sub-micro catagory. check out http://www.servocity.com/html/hs-55_sub-micro.html
or http://www.servocity.com/html/hs-45hb_premium_feather.html either one should be able to move the eyes without any problem.


----------



## twistedvisions68

*Beveled Faucet Washer*

just a note: if any one needs a Beveled Washer, look here. this would work for the top and they are made of super hard rubber and should work great. I know they make a teflon one to an any size but Ill have to look for it.

just a bit of info that might help some one out they also make Beveled metal grommets too will look for likes


http://plumbing.hardwarestore.com/51-286-faucet-washers.aspx

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:JsLb0gDD05AtQM:http://www.jespares.com/catalog

http://sth2.com/Z-car/cone-washer.jpg

google Cone Washer


----------



## azspecter

Bob-
Any chance on you posting a template for that new bracket you made? It's the one that holds the rod end...
Thanks!


----------



## HalloweenBob

I will try to make a template for the bracket. They are all mounted and inside skulls now, but I'll see what I can do.

Sorry I didn't see this posting until now.

I have just made a new video showing all 4 skulls doing the song together.

It is going up on YouTube. I'll post the link as soon as it's up there.


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## Dr Morbius

twistedvisions68 said:


> just a note: if any one needs a Beveled Washer, look here. this would work for the top and they are made of super hard rubber and should work great. I know they make a teflon one to an any size but Ill have to look for it.
> 
> just a bit of info that might help some one out they also make Beveled metal grommets too will look for likes
> 
> 
> http://plumbing.hardwarestore.com/51-286-faucet-washers.aspx
> 
> http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:JsLb0gDD05AtQM:http://www.jespares.com/catalog
> 
> http://sth2.com/Z-car/cone-washer.jpg
> 
> google Cone Washer


HA! I knew they existed somewhere..I saw one somewhere before. Thanks TD for posting that...I might also add that you could use two..one for the bottom and one for the top, sandwiched between two nuts (no jokes!! LOL!) on a straight 1/4" threaded rod. No machining needed at all!


----------



## HalloweenBob

Good find on the beveled washers. You will still need to drill and tap the hole in the top of the rod. Not sure if that counts as machining....

Anyway, here is the YouTube Video of my four skulls working together:

YouTube - My 3 axis skull quartet.

Sorry about the quality. It's from a laptop with a webcam. But you get the idea. The skull all the way on the right is the lead singer. The eyes are in and they blink, but you can't tell from the video. Still need to paint them and add eyelashes.

Oh, and here is the template for the bracket that I made. Print it out and make sure that the ruler in the picture is actual size. If so, the template will be actual size. The white lines at the bottom just above the feet show you where to bend the steel at 90 degrees.

TEMPLATE


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## HalloweenCouple

thats awesome bob!


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## LV Scott T

Bravo, Bob! You're an inspiration to us all!


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## buckaneerbabe

Wow, I think all your hard work really paid off. Those are just awesome!!!! What are you using for bodies? Buckies or a frame? I can't wait to see them all dressed up the the big night.


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## HalloweenBob

I am using both, actually. The lead singer is a girl, so I have a nice black velevt and sequen dress for her as well as a wig. Since the dress has a low neckline, see through sleeves and goes down to the knees, I have a complete bucky skeleton for her.

The guys will just be frames as they will be dressed in tuxes. I do have bucky hands for each of them, however.

I am open to frame designs, and still need to figure out how to attach the girl skull to the bucky body and make it good and secure.


----------



## Evil Bob

Yeah I was wondering that for mine. Thank heavens for Bondo.


----------



## buckaneerbabe

Sounds very formal. Are we all invited too?


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## Dr Morbius

Is there such a thing as a reducer coupler for threaded rods? You could attach it that way to the bucky skelly. Very nice, Bob. No, nice isn't the right word...spectacular. Yes, that's it. VERY SPECTACULAR! One question..those skulls look far apart. Did you splice in longer wires for the servos? How do they all reach the servo controller board? Do you have a pic for the wiring?


----------



## HalloweenBob

Right now, I just have extensions on all the servos. I bought them at ServoCity.com.

I will be cutting those up and extending them even more shortly. I will take pictures and document that process as I go along.

I have made a box for the servo controller that has 4 big jacks on it. One for each skull. That way, setup will only be connecting four plugs instead of 20 tiny servo wires.


----------



## Evil Bob

HalloweenBob said:


> Good find on the beveled washers. You will still need to drill and tap the hole in the top of the rod. Not sure if that counts as machining....
> 
> Anyway, here is the YouTube Video of my four skulls working together:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsupmVTXk4w


Dang!! I missed this message. Excellent! Do you have any problem with overheating board or lines? That looks better than anything I've seen!


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## buckaneerbabe

Dr M, I found a reducing coupler for my skull to a bucky body. I Found a 5/16" to 1/4", at McMaster-Carr, item #97088A190.


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## Dr Morbius

buckaneerbabe said:


> Dr M, I found a reducing coupler for my skull to a bucky body. I Found a 5/16" to 1/4", at McMaster-Carr, item #97088A190.


AWSOME BB!!! That's exactly what I need! Thank you


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## HalloweenBob

EvilBob....I haven't had any trouble so far, but I haven't boxed up the controller yet. Does it really heat up that much?

I wouldn't think so. There are no components on the board with heat sinks, which leads me to believe that nothing gets very hot. The board is only sending small pulses to the control wire of the servos. I would think that any heat would be in the servos themselves. not on the board.

What components on the board would be likely to produce heat?


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## Evil Bob

I dunno. I never fired up 20 servos like you have all at once. I'm glad there isn't a heat issue! BTW, my wife just saw your vid and she agrees it's fantastic!


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## joesmo

*Servo controller*

Excellent job HalloBob, I've got to add some back up singers to my bucky for next year. Has anyone got any first hand experience on how far an extension you can run from your PSC to your servos. I'm wanting to go about 25 feet but have not tried it yet.


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## HalloweenBob

I've heard people say that they have run extensions up to 75 feet with some good gage wire. I'm sure 25 feet won't be a problem.


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## joesmo

I was thinking about cat 6 with 22ga. or if that won't be big enough, I use 18/7 for my pneumatics.


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## joesmo

*Kit 74V2 question*

Being somewhat computer challenged, I need some suggestions on hooking up a Kit74 that just came today. My computer only has one DB25 parallel port and one DB15. I don't want to keep unhooking my printer every time I want to use the DB25 connection. I thought I saw a thread about adding parallel ports but I'm not sure what that would involve. Is this the easiest/cheapest way to go or is there another way??


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## HalloweenBob

You can add extra parallel ports to your computer. You can buy PCI cards that add the port like this one:

https://www.pactecenclosures.com/free-samples.php

I saw someone on this board that added 3 to their computer.

joesmo - the 22 ga wire should be fine for runs of 20 - 25 feet. for longer runs, you probably want to go with your 18/7, but I would try the cat5 first and see if youy have any trouble.


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## HalloweenBob

I just made my extensions and it all works just fine. 

I started by getting a really nice plastic project box to mount the SSC-32 controller board in. I got the box (2 of them actually) for free from this website:

http://www.pactecenclosures.com/New-Enclosure-Products.html

In hopes that you will mass produce a product and use their boxes, they offer you 2 free samples. Good deal.

Here is a pic of the box opened up after I mounted the SSC-32 board in it. I used 1/2" standoffs.










I cut 4 square holes in the top of the box at my friends machine shop, cut out a hole where the serial port is, and mounted a small terminal block on top.

Here's what that looks like with all the hardware in:










By the way, I got the plugs and jacks for the extensions here: http://www.mouser.com/catalog/630/1117.pdf. They were pretty cheap. Under $4.00 each.

here's what it looks like from underneith where I will be doing all the wiring:










Then I had to hook up the internal wiring. First, I connected the power for the board to the terminal block being careful to pay attention to polarity.










then I wired the power that will go to the servos. What I did, was send the power for the servos directly out to the servos using 2 pins on each of the extension jacks. This way, to hook up 5 servos, I only need 7 wires. Two power wires that get distributed to all the servos at the skull end, and a control wire for each servo.

I started like this:










Then I ran wires in parallel to the last two connectors on all 4 jacks. I also started hooking up the control wires for the servos here. You can also see that I labeled what all the jacks were, where the + and - wires go, and the pin numbers on the underside so I don't get confused. (I did anyway, but I fixed it later)










Every servo has 3 wires going to it. A Black one (Which is Ground), A Red one (Which is your DC Voltage (Typically 5 or 6 VDC....I'm using 5VDC) and a yellow one (Which is the Pulse or Signal wire)

Since the DC Voltage is constantly on for all the servos, I decided to run two wires out of each jack to supply voltage for all the servos in that skull. I connect all the ground wires and all the Positive wires to these two at the other end, so all the servos have power. then All I have to worry about is the control wires (Pulse Wires)

I discovered, that even though I was sending the voltage directly to the servos, and was not using the voltage wires off the SSC-32 board, I still had to feed the DC voltage for the servos into the board in order for it to work.

I just tapped off the terminal block wires and sent that to the board, again being careful to get the polarity right.

You can see that here:










Anyway, to hook up the outputs from the board to my jacks, I did the easy thing. I bought a bunch of 3 foot servo extensions and cut them in half. For some reason, the colors are different on the servo extentions. They are Brown, Red and Orange. Red is the same. It is the positive voltage wire. Brown is the ground and the orange wire is the pulse wire.

I took the end of the extension that plugs into the board and cut off the brown and red wires, leaving just the Pulse wire (The one closest to the center of the SSC-32 board) connected. Then I soldered the control wires to each of the appropriate connectos on the jacks that I mounted, making a chart of where every wire is hooked up and what it does.

I labled my four jacks L (for Lead Vocal) 1,2 and 3 for my three backup singers.

The "L" jack has 5 control wires. one for the Jaw, three for the 3 axis motion and one more for the eyelid action.

Jacks 1 and 3 each have just 4 control wires. The Jaw and the 3 for the 3 axis movement, and number 2 has 2 additional wires. One is an extra jaw wire, because the guy in the center will be lifting up a skull that he holds in his hand, and the jaw on that skull will move. The other extra is for a high torque servo I have hooked up to a pulley system that will raise his arms so he can hold up the skull. I'll post pictures of that when I get to it.

Anyway, here's what I mean by separating the pulse wire and only hooking that up. Heres a pic just before I cut off the Brown and Red Wires:










Here's what it looks like all wired up:










And here's the finished product all closed up and ready to hook up:


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## HalloweenBob

Then I made the extensions themselves. This was pretty simple.

I used servo extension wire that I bought at ServoCity.com. (2 50ft lengths)










I'm sure you could use cat5 cable, but I had already bought this stuff, so I decided to use it. My only concern with Cat5 cable would be that you double up on the DC voltage wires. In some cases, those two wires need to carry the current for 6 servos all at once. Cat5 cable strikes me as a bit thin for that. Fine for the Pulse wires, however.

Since I had the wire, I doubled up the voltage wires on these extensions even with the thicker wire. I figured it can't hurt, and it might help.

Here is the plug end:










At the other end, I reconnected the remaining end of the short servo extensions I bought from ServoCity.com. I had used the other ends on the SSC-32 board earlier.

I connected all the brown wires together and soldered them to the ground wire that I ran out. I attached all the Red wires together and soldered them to the Positive DC voltage wire that I ran out. Then I connected the pulse wires to the right mini servo sockets and numbered them all for eaiser reference.

Here's the other end:










I just taped up the area where I made all the splices, and taped up other spots every foot or so just to keep the wires all together and easier to handle.

That was it! Just hooked it back up and everything worked fine. Each extension is about 12 feet long. They would have been longer if I had more wire, but 12 feet will be fine for what I'm doing. That means that one skull can be 20 feet away from the others if I want to set it up that way.

This will be long enough for me to run the cables down the back of each character where it won't be seen, and then connect them all to the controller board.

Now to hook up the whole 20 servos, I just need to plug in one plug for each skull and I'm done!


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## Dr Morbius

Cooooool! I ordered my boxes today...Gonna copy ya!


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## KernelHappy

So yesterday I finally broke down and decided to build a 3 axis skull. I had a partial sheeet of 1/4" lexan and a miniSSC laying around so I shot over to my local hobby shop and luckily they had some large ball links for the gimbal. 

I'm using 1/4" x 6" carriage bolt with a hand drilled and tapped 4-40 hole in the end (my local hobby shop rocks and they are going to drill and tap a couple bolts on the lathe this week for me so I can replace the hand done ones). For the spacers I'm using 9/32 brass tubing over the threads and it works well, I think it may even give me more motion than the conical spacers do.

I made the supporting bracket out of 1/8" aluminum stock and it seems to be beefy enough. 

I'm so close to being done it hurts. The only real problem I have now is that the ball link uses something like a 1/4"-28 thread and I don't have a nut for it and I need to put a little more thought into the servo links. 

So my questions to you HalloweenBob;

1) Do you have any pictures of the new metal mounting bracket installed in a skull that wasn't modified with the heat gun? I'm hesitant to dremel out more material than I have to from the base of the skull. I'd like to see how your gimbal is seated in the opening. I actually have to re-do my metal bracket since I somehow cut it offset. I started actually assembling at 11pm and by the time I got to this bracket it was 3am, and I had to cut everything with a 4" hacksaw or a dremel (I would have woken everyone up if I went to dig out the jigsaw)

2) Do the servos chatter alot at rest since they are in tension supporting much of the weight (using the neck location as the mounting spot rather than the point the kit stand uses )?

3) Did you have to take a lot of material out of the inside of the skull to make room for the servo links? I haven't started canibalizing the inside since I need to redo the bracket and find a couple 1/4-28 nuts. Would there be room to use ball cups and studs on the end of the servo arm as linkages (they provide great range of motion compared to the ball links). 

Hopefully tonight I'll try putting it together using the ball links on both ends of the servo connecting rods. 

Provided I get one working right I'm going for the duet (I got you babe!) thing. Some other ideas were to add shrugging shoulders to it, it's easier to raise the shoulders than to raise the hold skull assembly without adding lots of slop.


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## HalloweenBob

To answer your questions....

1. I did have to cut away some of the skull where I had modified it with the heat gun. basically, I just had to make the opening larger so that the center rod had enough clearance all the way around. This is because by attaching the rod end to the bracket, it is a little higher up inside the skull, making the rod need more room to move at the skull's base. To make the hole larger, just use a dremel tool or just about anything, really. I used a hacksaw blade that I just held in my hand. The skull plastic cuts very easily.

2. No, my servos don't chatter at all. I set them up so they are all in the center position when the skull is looking straight forward and all servo arms are at 90 degrees. I have no trouble with chattering or with the servos fighting each other. I did have that problem before when they were not properly aligned.

3. I did not have to cut anything out of the skull with the exception of making the neck hole larger. All the parts were designed to fit in the skull as is without any modifications to the skull. (Again other than the bottom opening)

I use the following ball linkages from ServoCity.com:

http://www.servocity.com/html/2-56x3_16__mini.html

they take a 2-56 screw, so that is the size I tapped into the top of my threaded rod. They are small so they don't bump into anything else inside the skull.

Perhaps you are running into trouble because you have chosen larger parts, and they take up too much space. Without pictures, it's hard for me to tell.

I hope that is helpful.

To the good doctor...Please post some pics of your finished extension box, and let me know if you find any improvements!


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## KernelHappy

I already enlarged the hole a bit using the dremel and a sanding barrel, I guess I need to get everything together and see the clearances first. I just don't want to take too much away. It actually seems like the little bit I did before pitting everything together (basically just rounded the hole a little bit) is giving me some decent clearance).


As far as chatter, I haven't even turned on the servos yet, I just know that unless you're using heavy duty servos that when there is a static load on them, even if they are centered, sometimes they tend to chatter as they try to stay at a specific position (usually a sign of a servo getting old, but this thing isn't exactly featherweight)


As far as clearances for the linkages, I think I'm ok, I have enough clearance that I can mount one between the servo and the arm and then the other on the outside of the arm (like normal) so that I won't have as much stagger (keeping the linkages as close to perpendicular to the rod as possible)

I'm using 4-40 ball ends which are pretty tiny to begin with, I'll know a little later if I'm in trouble or not.

As far as the alignments to the main supporting rod, I used your template as a guide, but as I'm looking at it, I think I need to flip the nod servo around and it'll line up better (I don't know if it's even a problem yet).


Here are some pictures I took to show the 9/32 tubing as spacers. Don't laugh at the condition of my cuts, it was late and I really thought I was going to have to build this thing twice so I just basically hacked away at parts of it. The lexan looks particularly crappy, but it'll be concealed.


Grrrr, I don't have enough posts yet pics in next post.


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## KernelHappy

Also note that I don't have nuts for the ball link acting as the gimbal, so it's slopping all over the place. By eye it actually looks like it's lined up fairly ok.


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## HalloweenBob

Lookin pretty good! You may find that you need a largger hole in your bracket to accomodate the rotate armature once you put it on. I don't see it attached to the rod yet. Those spacers look fine. They are thin enough not to get in the way, but thick enough to hold the rod end in place.

Nice work.


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## KernelHappy

Thanks!

The hole in the mounting bracket is for the nod servo linkage from the back of the skull (did I do something different from your design?) and you are correct it's definitely not big enough for the linkage to smoothly move through, I ran out of sanding bands for my small barrel last night and just decided to test fit everything. At that point I was mostly concerned about the spacing form the gimbal to the point where the nod and tilt linkages attach. 

Speaking of which... I know your machined rod is 2" from the top of the bevel to the top of the rod (before the screw in the top), would you increase the distance from the gimbal to the linkages or decrease it if you could do it over again? Basically I figure I want to keep it as long as possible for the sake of smoothness (want to use as much servo travel as possible), but at the same time I want to make sure it's short enough that the swing of the servo arm will be enough give me full range of motion.

I do think I need to swap the nod servo orientation, it doesn't come off perpendicular to the support rod the way the tilt servo does, I have to go back downstairs and look at it again to see if that's the problem. 

If rotating the servo doesn't make it line up beter I'm going to just connect it and see if it works. I need to get a couple flat nuts to secure the pan arm, those standard hex nuts are too thick and waste too much space.


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## HalloweenBob

Once you add the rotate armature onto the central shaft, it will stick out towards the bracket you made. It needs a big clearance area because of the way it moves around when you use the nod servo at the same time as the rotate servo.

If you don't enlarge that hole, you will find several areas where the rotate armature hits the bracket while the skull is in different positions.

It will become obvious once you add the armature.

I am glad so many people are following this thread and getting this project done! It is very gratifying to see others come out with successful projects based on my input here.

If there are more people out there building these, please post and let us know. You can see that as this group gets together, they find easier ways to get this done that does not require as much custom machining as I had in my original design.

The more who post here, the better refined the design becomes.


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## thedudedrummer

Im making three of these, and other than finding a place to drill and tap a #2 screw this project is turing out to be quite easy! Thanks for putting together a great tut! Also the brass spacers look like an easy soultion as well.


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## KernelHappy

thedudedrummer said:


> Im making three of these, and other than finding a place to drill and tap a #2 screw this project is turing out to be quite easy! Thanks for putting together a great tut! Also the brass spacers look like an easy soultion as well.



Let me start by saying that I have yet to fully connect my servos so there is still some open questions about any possible kinks in my setup. That said I'm pretty confident that the way I'm doing it is going to work.

You can look for local machine shops to turn the bolt on a lathe or you can do like I did, run to Lowes, buy a bunch of 1/4" x 6" carriage bolts, slap 4 or 5 nuts on them and stick the nuts in the vise and drill the end by hand. It really wasn't that hard although I don't know about drilling and tapping #2s by hand, I broke two drill bits and one tap doing the 4-40s (they broke because I was rushing, just remember to keep the drill straight, take your time and then use WD40 or 3-in-1 oil while doing the tapping and once it starts getting firm, go one turn, back it out, repeat a couple times, then back the tap all the way out, spray some parts cleaner in there, reoil and repeat until you get to the desired depth)

Like I said, I'm using 4-40 screws and I don't think they are going to pose a clearance problem and they are readily available (did a late night Lowes run and picked up some extra 4-40s). I should have my skull done within the next night or two, if you can wait a bit I'll let you know if 4-40 turned out to be too big. 

I would recommend checking out some local hobby shops that do RC cars and planes, although not all shops are created equal. I happen to be extremely lucky, my LHS is owned and by a bunch of really nice, knowledgeable and willing to help people. I have lived in other areas where the people that the LHS were arrogant and generally unpleasant, just try another one if you encounter that. Mine had pretty much everything I needed except the miniSSC.


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## HalloweenBob

It wasn't actually the 4-40 screw that I was concerned about as far as size goes. If you use a 4-40 screw, then you will need a larger size linkage arm. Put two or three of those larger linkage arms in that tight space and they might start hitting each other limiting your motion.

I'm guessing here because I know space was tight in mine and I used smaller parts.

Please let us know how you make out with that. It would be great if space is not an issue at that size. Those screws, drills and taps are all easier to work with than the 2-56 size, so it may simplify the process.


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## KernelHappy

HalloweenBob said:


> It wasn't actually the 4-40 screw that I was concerned about as far as size goes. If you use a 4-40 screw, then you will need a larger size linkage arm. Put two or three of those larger linkage arms in that tight space and they might start hitting each other limiting your motion.
> 
> I'm guessing here because I know space was tight in mine and I used smaller parts.
> 
> Please let us know how you make out with that. It would be great if space is not an issue at that size. Those screws, drills and taps are all easier to work with than the 2-56 size, so it may simplify the process.




I agree with you that the ball links themselves could pose a problem. Worst case scenario, since the loads on them are going to be relatively light, I can shave some of the nylon off to make them a little more cooperative. I already called my LHS and told them not to tap the two other bolts just in case I have to go down to a #2 screw. 

I'm more concerned about the fact that my nod servo doesn't line up perpendicular to the other servos. I have a couple options for fixing it if rotating the servo doesn't bring it closer into line.

In all reality the build time for these things is relatively short once you start to see how the pieces fit together, I'd say to start from scratch again build time would probably be under 4-5 hours knowing what I know now. 

Wish me luck, I'm going to try and steal an hour before dinner and get this thing together.


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## HalloweenBob

Good Luck! Be sure to report back. Can you take some pictures of the servos that show how they line up with each other. I don't understand how they can't be perpendicular.


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## KernelHappy

Ok, so I flipped the nod servo around and the links are pretty perpendicular now. I created a new support bracket, and created a cam to mount on the rod for the pan function. 

Put everything together and fired it up.

The good news is - the 4-40 ball links seem to be fine, the bad news is that something is not right with the pan linkage. Tilting the head causes it to turn when the pan linkage is attached. It was pretty late when I got to this point last night so I wasn't thinking super clearly, but I think this may be unavoidable and that the only way to correct it is to do some servo mixing.

I'm only a member of the 2 axis club at this point =/.

I'll post some pictures later today.


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## HalloweenBob

It's all in the alignment. If everything including the rotate servo linkage are lined up right and on the correct plain, no servo mixing is necessary.

I do not have to do any mixing with any of the 4 I made.

The answer will be in the pictures.


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## KernelHappy

HalloweenBob said:


> It's all in the alignment. If everything including the rotate servo linkage are lined up right and on the correct plain, no servo mixing is necessary.
> 
> I do not have to do any mixing with any of the 4 I made.
> 
> The answer will be in the pictures.



I couldn't leave for work today without looking at this some more. I have some clearance issues that I need to work out. 

The rotation when nodding is caused by the nod linkage hitting the screw connecting the cam to the rotate linkage. This should be fairly easy to fix. 

I had to remove the right side of the bracket so that the arm on rotate servo could travel freely while noddind and tilting. I actually have to remove a little more of the bracket (the rotate cam still hits the bracket at the extreme nod down position), I'm just glad I created the new bracket with a hole in the middle rather than cutting out the entire middle the way you did it. 

The bigger problem with unintentional rotation is with the tilt servo, I think the rotation cam has to be closer to the point where the tilt and nod ball ends connect to the rod. 

Tonight I'll try moving the rotate cam up on the rod and mounting the rotate linkage from underneath but something tells me there is always going to be a little bit of rotation at the extreme ends of tilt. I also need to put some more thought into the length of the servo arms and the distance between the gimbal and the point where all the linkages attach to the top of the rod. If I rotate the skull too far to the right (skulls left) I end up passing the point of no return and when I try to go back the skull keeps rotating left, this is because I shortened the cam prior to cutting the bracket for clearance. I also need to work on my nod up, I don't get much travel that direction, I think I just have to put some thought and possibly some math into the distances. 

Here are some pictures:

Top - centered









Top - nod up









Top - rotate left









Top - rotate right









Front - centered









Front - nod down









Front - tilt right









Front - rotate and nod interference


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## KernelHappy

HB:

Do you recommend the LynxMotion SSC32? 

I seem to be having a few problems with my MiniSSC II, I am using the VSA demo and I can't control anything other than the first two channels (I have to keep swapping the servos out to test different motions). I also noticed that occaisionally it stops responding to commands until I restart the program and it's not very smooth, setting the jumper for 90 degree range of motion helps but it's still not very smooth. I'm going to try running the MiniSSC test program but I think I'll just spring for the $40 for a LynxMotion, I figure the higher baud rate may be beneficial once I add a additional skulls to my setup. 

I'm looking to do a duet kind of thing and for backup singers I'm going to do a simple jaw movement with head tilt and possibly a lift for the entire head to go up and down.


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## HalloweenBob

I can see by your very first picture that you need to pull your rotate linkage in closer to the center of the servo at the servo end. It is no where near 90 degrees and does need to be as close to that as possible. It looks like you will get some fighting between servos until that is resolved. The others seem to be lined up fairly well.

Keep playing with alignment until everything is as perpendicular to everything else as possible. It will start working right once you have achieved that.

You can adjust which hole on the servo armature you mount to, wether you mount the linkage on top or under that servo arm. Which servo arm you choose, and the length of the linkages. Plenty of things to play with to get the alignment right.

I do recommend the lynxmotion board. I have had no trouble with it at all. It is a great bargain at that price since it can control 32 servos instead of the standard 8 and their customer service is excellent.

I had trouble setting it up because I was confused with setting the baud rate. They talked me through it no problem and were easy to get on the phone.


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## thedudedrummer

where are you guys finding the #4 gimble ends for the servos? I bought the ones that were linked to from this thread and theyre 2-56 ends. lol what am I going to do with 20 of these then?


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## HalloweenBob

The #4 linkages are avilable on the same website. Here is the link to them:

http://www.servocity.com/html/4-40x3_16__standard.html

I still recommend using the smaller size and tapping your holes for the #2 screws. The servo arms are also really made for the smaller size screw. To get a 4-40 screw into the servo arm, you really have to drill out most of the arm, and I don't think you can mount the #4 linkage on the underside of the servo arms.

To line everything up, I did mount several linkage arms on the underside so that it attaches to the servo arm and sits between it and the servo itself.

I am watching to see how it goes with the 4-40 screws, but again, I used all 2-56 screws for all the servo linkages.


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## KernelHappy

The dubro 4-40 ball links do fit under the servo arm on a futaba 3004 servo (hitec 425bb equiv). 

If you are ordering the parts and are reasonably confident as to being able to machine the end of the rod and tap such a small screw I would say go with the 2-52 ones just to be safe. Looking at Hb's setup they seem to be plenty sturdy and the extra clearance definately would not hurt.

At this point I do not think the 4-40 ball links are going to be a problem but I'll know after tonight. I'm off to my local hobby shop to get some other eyeballs on my setup.


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## thedudedrummer

got em machined to 2-56 and they turned out great thanks to BB's reccomendation. Now i just have to make the gimble support and I will be up and running soon!


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## KernelHappy

HALLOWEENBOB - HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you happen to have any video or pictures of your newer skulls (with the metal bracket) running without the skull on? In other words just the servos mounted to the lexan on the rod?

The more I study the design the more it seems impossible for it not to rotate when tilting unless you compensate with the rotation servo. Is that how you do it? I've tried a bunch of different positions for the rotate cam and the linkages, moving everything up and down, and I can't minimize it mechanically. 

To make things worse I used up a good portion of my bench time yesterday trying to understand why my controller stopped responding after a couple seconds. Apparently my desktop has some sort of issue with the serial ports (probably a issue with the physical IRQ routing on the mobo, since com1 is alone on IRQ4). So I'm down to running it off a old pentium 233 notebook. 

I don't think it's an issue with the 4-40 ball ends because without the rotate linkage connected, the head tilts and nods perfectly, it's only when the rotate servo is connected and energized (holding it's position) that I get the unintentional rotation.


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## HalloweenBob

Unfortunately, I did not take any video of the mechanism running without the skull attached, but that was the way I tested it before attaching the skull. That's how I found problems and tweaked my alignment.

I am confident that you can correct the problem you are having. Before I got everything aligned correctly, I was experiencing the exact same thing. Every move had to be a combination of moves between at least 2 servos. Once I lined everything up right, that problem went away.

From your pictures I can see that your tilt and nod servos look pretty well aligned (90 degrees to each other and relatively on the same plane.

Your rotate servo looks way out of wack and I think that is where most of your problem lies. I do have a bunch of pictures of the mechanism at all different angles. It's not a video, but you can see pretty well how I have things lined up.

You can download a zip file of all those pictures HERE.

It's almost impossible to get it lined up perfectly, but you need to get a lot closer than you are. Once you have them aligned and tweaked, you should be able to move the plexi by hand and observe the interaction of all the servos. When I moved mine by hand in a tilt motion, my other two servos did not move. The ball joints on the end of the linkages took up the extra motion as they rocked back and forth slightly, but the servo arms did not move. The same when moving it in a Nod motion. Then the rotate. If everything is as close to perpendicular as possible, it will work. It is a law of physics.

I'm sure you just need some more tweaking.

Look over the pictures I have in the zip file and see how they compare to what you have.

Even after taking those pictures, I still had to twaek a tiny bit, but it basically worked pretty well the way you see it in the pics.

I hope this helps.


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## KernelHappy

I took some pics and some video of the skull in action. In the videos first I run through tilt and nod motions without any compensation, then the second time in the video I add rotational compensation. 

I also have two pics of the new plate (easier to see the alignment from). Ultimately the design will inherently rotate due to the fact that the rotate and tilt servos are on the same plane, if they were connected to the exact same point they would have to offset each other otherwise you'd never be able to move them, the fact that the linkage connects further down the rod and offset from the top, makes i possible to move one without moving the other but it causes the rotation. I have not been able to find the magic distances where the rotation goes away and I'm pretty frustrated .


















Videos: 
Top View - Hi Res (5.43MB) 
Top View - low Res (1.63MB)

Front View - Hi Res (5.42MB)
Front View - Low Res (2.31MB)

I'm close to the end of my rope, I really don't want to start from scratch, and I do not want to have to mix the servos manually (really tedious).

Any Ideas?


----------



## Evil Bob

I'm really sorry you're having alignment problems, but I'm really glad you are having alignment problems so you had to post those videos. They did more to illustrate Halloween Bob's concept than still pictures ever did. Without the skull getting in the way. Good luck fixing your problem, but thanks for posting the vids!!


----------



## KernelHappy

evilbob said:


> I'm really sorry you're having alignment problems, but I'm really glad you are having alignment problems so you had to post those videos. They did more to illustrate Halloween Bob's concept than still pictures ever did. Without the skull getting in the way. Good luck fixing your problem, but thanks for posting the vids!!


Before I started building this thing it took me a while to understand just how it was supposed to work, probably spent a good 40 minutes just imagining the mechanics of it. So I'm glad the vids help demonstrate it, just wish I could get it working better.


----------



## buckaneerbabe

Kernelhappy, I would guess and this is only a guess that your rotation servo arm is to low on the rod. Have you tried raising it up some? I saw you had some room there. I can't explain technically why but somehow that just looks too low. I looked at mine and it's tightened up as close as it can get to the other servo arms. There's less strain on the rotation arm this way. I don't know if this makes since but give it a try. Your so close. Don't give up.


----------



## KernelHappy

buckaneerbabe said:


> Kernelhappy, I would guess and this is only a guess that your rotation servo arm is to low on the rod. Have you tried raising it up some? I saw you had some room there. I can't explain technically why but somehow that just looks too low. I looked at mine and it's tightened up as close as it can get to the other servo arms. There's less strain on the rotation arm this way. I don't know if this makes since but give it a try. Your so close. Don't give up.


Actually raising it up makes the problem worse because it's closer to the plane of the tilt linkage and it's fighting the motion on a more 1:1 basis. By mounting it lower I actually get away with a little more tilt before the rotation becomes pronounced.


----------



## buckaneerbabe

What about shortening the servo arm. Mine has no visable thread at all in between the arm linkages.


----------



## KernelHappy

buckaneerbabe said:


> What about shortening the servo arm. Mine has no visable thread at all in between the arm linkages.




I'm using dubro 4-40 ball ends and I cut the nylon to make them shorter, if I hadn't cut them there would be no visible thread showing. 

You have the same setup and you don't have to counteract tilt with rotation to keep the head from turning as it tilts?


----------



## KernelHappy

I just tried lowering the rotate servo (put it on standoffs so it hangs lower than the plate, that makes it just as bad as having the rotate cam all the way at the top of the rod.

I just don't see why I'm effected and everyone else isn't.


----------



## buckaneerbabe

Just a thought but do you still have the plexi-glass template? If the cutout for the rotation is off even a little that could be your problem also. Even a 1/4" difference could make the difference. I'm so sorry your having this trouble and just wish I knew how to help you.


----------



## HalloweenBob

I see something that might help after viewing your videos. Try attaching the linkages to a hole closer to the center on the servo arm. The further out to the outside you go, the more turning takes place in addition to the straight out "pushing" you want to tilt or nod. By moving the linkage closer to the center, you get less of an arc motion. You may find that the linkages become a bit more lined up (90 degrees) as well, although yours are pretty good.

I would also try adjusting the height on your center rod of the rotate armature (move it up a bit if you have clearence). I see this has been discussed a bit already, but it shouldn't interfere with other motion. I know mine does not. Lowering the rotate servo is a viable option, but shouldn't be necessary.

It is also important that all linkage arms be as close to parallel to the plexi plate as possible.

Mine are still at a bit of an angle, but not as much as what I see on yours. That may be causing some trouble.

All in all it does seem to be working pretty well.

I should have shot video of that phase of my setup. Those videos are very helpful.


----------



## HalloweenBob

I just noticed something else from your video. I don't know how much difference this will make, but my "Tilt" servo faces the other way from how you have yours mounted.

Both the tilt and rotate servo are mounted facing the same direction with the servo arm pointing towards the back of the skull.

The square hole in the plexi was put where it was with that placement in mind. It may help to also turn that servo (the tilt servo) around.


----------



## KernelHappy

HalloweenBob said:


> I just noticed something else from your video. I don't know how much difference this will make, but my "Tilt" servo faces the other way from how you have yours mounted.
> 
> Both the tilt and rotate servo are mounted facing the same direction with the servo arm pointing towards the back of the skull.
> 
> The square hole in the plexi was put where it was with that placement in mind. It may help to also turn that servo (the tilt servo) around.


I originally mounted everything the way you had them, but I noticed that the rod was rather close to the nod servo and flipped everything to try and get the spacing more like yours. 

I'm feeling a little under the weather but I hope to be able to cut another plate from your template today or tomorrow and try again.

I really appreciate everyone's help and I'm sorry to have hijacked your thread. I started another thread and only double posted it here to see if I could get your input as well.


----------



## Dr Morbius

Have you tried running it without the rotate servo? If it performs properly without it, then you know that's the culprit. try it with one servo removed at a time, if that doesn't work. It really looks like your rotate servo linkage is WAY too low down the rod.


----------



## joesmo

I was having the same problem with my rotation binding with the nod. I adjusted the 90 deg alignment a little, but what really helped me was to bring the connecting rod on a more even plane and out of the way of the nod. Looking at you pictures it seems that you have quite an angle on your rotation rod and that might be causing it to bind. Just a thought cause I know how frustrating it can get.


----------



## KernelHappy

DrMorbius:

Yes, I have removed the rotation linkage and everything tilts perfectly. If you look at the design of the mechanism itself, the rotate and tilt servos are directly opposite of each other, only the rotation one is moved a hair towards the back of the skull so that it lines up with the rotation cam attached to the rod. The skull tilt motion works by shortening the distance between the center of the servo and the top of the rod, because the rotate servo is energized and holding it's position, the distance between the center of that servo and the rod does not change. Because the rotate servo is connected to a point that is not lined up perfectly with the tilt servo linkage, the plate rotates as it maintains the distance from the cam to the center of the rotation servo. 

Eureka! As I'm writing this, I think I know what my problem might be! The problem may be the distance between the gimbal and either the connection point for on the top of the support rod, or the gimbal to the plate. If the distance is too long, the arc that the top of the rod sweeps through the skull on will be larger than if that distance was shortened up. A shorter sweep would mean less change in distance between the rotate cam and the center of the rotation servo which in turn means that when I tilt, the amount of unintentional rotation would be very minimal. When I created the metal bracket and through my initial setup, I figured a longer throw would be better, allowing me finer control by using more of the servos range of motion. 

In an ideal world, the rotate servo would act on the gimbal itself minimizing the amount of movements from other motions it would have to deal with. I thought I had approximated what everyone else was doing, maybe the gimbal is too far down.


josemo:

I actually had a similar problem early on, the screw for the rotate linkage was rubbing against the nod linkage and when enough pressure was applied it would slip off to one side or the other. As it's adjusted now nothing rubs or touches through the motions except at the very far limits of the motions well after my the skull has rotated while tilting (the rubbing is easier to fix than my current issue).

As far as the angle of the rotation linkage: I intentionally moved the rotation cam further down the rod hoping that the extra angle in there would make it less susceptible to the rotation problem. I've actually moved that thing up and down a whole bunch, bringing it right to the top, and all the way down to the bottom. I also tried pushing the rotation servo further down to keep it on the same plane as the rotation cam, by making little stand offs. Based upon my current theory above I think I was on the right track, just didn't get far enough down. 


I'm actually kind of hopeful that this will minimize the problem!!! It's the first thing that makes any kind of sense. If anyone still has their skull apart and cares to measure everything up (distances between all the linkages and connecting poitns) I'd appreciate it. 

I just wish I had time to work on it tonight .


----------



## dyceskynes

What made you decide to use the HS-425BB vs the HS-311 or the HS-322HD.


----------



## HalloweenBob

Basically the recommendation of others. I did look at the torque specs on that servo and they seemed to be within what I needed.

They are working fine for me, so that is good. There are probably many other servos that would also work, but I didn't have the money to experiment, so I went with a servo that I knew others were using for similar applications that worked.


----------



## HalloweenBob

*Bodies*

I said I would post again as soon as I got these guys all dressed up.

Well, I have started the body-making.

The girl lead singer is a full bucky in a dress. She will also be wearing a wig.

I made a wooden stand that holds her up from the bolt that extends down in her pelvis. It is actually one long solid rod that goes the entire distance of the spine and holds everything together. I cut off the tailbone, and rested the end of that rod in a hole I made in the frame, and then bolted it down tight with oversized washers and nuts.

Here she is standing there:










Here is the frame I made to hold her up:










To attach the skull that I made, I cut off the bolt at the top. Slid a coupler over it, and tapped a couple holes in it to hold it tight. Now all I have to do is screw her head on right.










I left some of the vertibrae attached in front to hide the metal couplings.

For the guys, it was a different story. I had to make an entire body frame for each one. They will be fully dressed in a complete tuxedo. (I bought 3 of them) so nothing will show except for their heads and hands.

Here's how I started:










here's what it looked like from the back:










Then I started padding it out a bit. First I added shoulder pads:










You can also see where I added Chicken wire to build out the chest.

Continued in next post....


----------



## HalloweenBob

Next, I added padding to the Chest:










A couple of arms (Made from pool noodles, held together with those nylon tie-wraps. I'm not sure of the real name for them)










Then the hands....










Almost done now. I just had to get them dressed. I put the tuxes on them the same way I would put them on a real person except that I used a staple gun to hold things in place.










There he is!

So far, I have made 2 out of the 3 Background Singer bodies. I am purposely making them different heights because all people are not the same height. I wanted a little variety and it adds to each one's personality.

Here's the group so far with one background singer missing. (They will be displayed outdoors)











More as I get things finished up.


----------



## Evil Bob

Looks great!!! Kinda ironic that they'll be singing about a headless horseman...


----------



## KernelHappy

They look absolutely great HB.


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## BATFLY

WOW, this is turning out first rate so far!!! it's at the top of my "props i want to see finished most" list!


----------



## JPettis

Where did you get your skull from. I am using a bucky skull...just wish I had something with a little less weight.


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## Moon Dog

Excellent work! Can't wait to see the finished video!


----------



## HalloweenBob

This is one of the places you can get the skull:


http://www.monstersinmotion.com/cata...ducts_id/10457


It is a plastic model from Lindberg.

If you look back through this thread, it is referenced with links a couple of different times.

My last body is built, and I am almost ready to attach the heads. Perhaps this weekend. When I do, I will post more pictures and more video.


----------



## twistedvisions68

*new vid*

just thought I would post some of my work. the video is not all that great . the head mec isnt like the one here. its a simple one Ill be saleing soon. nothing like the work bob put into his.
I hope you enjoy Ill have to post the pictures here soon ok
thanks 
later guys

YouTube - my animatronic


----------



## Avery

I have been following this conversation in awe but, apart from wondering if Bob's neighbor is interested in adopting me, didn't really have anything to add.

Last night, while working on a shopping list for my current project, getting my grandfather's metal lathe back into good working order, I saw that Enco (http://www.use-enco.com) had ball joints and thought, "Hey, since I'm thinking about doing one of those skeleton's some day, I ought to throw one or two of those onto my order." This morning while putting my list together (and thinking about how much money I really want to drop today) I noticed Enco's price is about half of McMaster Carr's. Not sure how shipping will stack up, but though I'd share that little bit of information.


----------



## HalloweenBob

*Getting There...*

Now that I have my heads screwed on straight, I can take care of other details.

Here's how the group is shaping up so far...





















I still have to finish progamming routines, make something for their necks that look like vertibrae, and hide the metal, attach the top hats to the guys, finish painting their stands with black spray paint, build and program all the lights and lighting sequences, build the tombstones that will be in front of these guys, give them mic stands and mics, and a few other details. 

I'll post video once I get the whole system together out in the barn where the bodies are.

Then I have to get to work on the rest of my haunt. This quartet was only an addition to all the rest of the stuff that I do.


Well, it's back to work for me!

Thanks for keeping track of this project.


----------



## Dr Morbius

Would it look better to have the clothes distressed like they were a zombie quartet? Or are those tuxes rented? LOL! Looks terrific though, nice work!


----------



## HalloweenBob

I wasn't sure which way to go with the clothes, but here is my logic for them being non-distressed.

The songs they will be singing are comical. This is the part of my haunt that will be geared to the young TOTers who are too afraid to enter the bard with all the real scary stuff. I decided to make them more 'fun' and less 'scary'. They will also be telling jokes and having dialog between songs. I figured they could get all dressed up for the big night.

They aren't rented tuxes, but they are the real things. Each has a complete tux except for the shoes. I thought cumberbuns came with these, but they didn't. Still on the lookout for those.

The other reason I didn't want to distress the clothes was because I hope to use these for a number of years, just change the content of what they sing and say.

I figure if I started with clothes that were falling apart, I would end up having to do it over in a few years as there would be nothing left to them. This way, as time goes on, I can distress them another year if I want.


----------



## buckaneerbabe

I love their looks, very classy!! Have you thought about making the cumberbuns? I would think that would be an easy thing to make and save you a few dollars too. You could iron in some pleats and either stitch it down or use some fabric glue. You might need to look at yours first but that should be a piece of cake after everything eles you did!


----------



## HalloweenBob

That sounds like an idea. I'll go out and grab some black fabric.

Should I get a silky finish, or just flat black?


----------



## BATFLY

man i'm diggin this set up! i'd say silky, as that's pretty much all i've ever seen them in. i guess price will dictate that. you might also want to check out burlington coat factory if you have one in your area. they have them for real cheap!


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## buckaneerbabe

I would just go to the fabric store and see what you like best. Fold the fabric in your hands to see how it will look. I probably would go the the least expensive and easiest to sew if you should go that route. Sometime silky fabric is too slippery and difficult but you could always use fabric glue. I used it alot last year and love the stuff for quick fixes that I don't want to take to machine or needle and thread. I know Johann's has the satin fabric pretty inexpensive this time of year too.


----------



## The_Caretaker

Have you thought of a halloween print for the cumberbuns?


----------



## Lynn

I think shiny red would be great, get a splash of color in there. Satin or silk is harder to sew but you could glue it or get the iron on seam binder stuff. easy and only take a minute to do.


----------



## Dr Morbius

I see your point HB!! If it's for the kiddies, then hey, let 'em shine! I would go with a shiny black cumberbun to offset the flat black jackets. Adding any other color will make them look like they are going to the prom. Or look like waiters. Or ushers. Or something.


----------



## buckaneerbabe

So Bob, will you be adding led's to the eyes of your 3 skelly heads? I wanted to do that for mine and was wondering if this was another way other than just using the 9v battery type?


----------



## HalloweenBob

No. For these guys, I have made eyeballs out of wooden balls. I have painted them with florescent paint and will be using a blacklight, so they will light up, but no LEDs.

I think I will look for some satin like fabric, for the cumberbuns. Probably black. But I will look to see if there is something with skulls on it or some sort of halloween design. If it isn't crazy colors, maybe just black and grey, I might go for that.


----------



## buckaneerbabe

I just want to say thanks to you again for everything you do for this forum. This has been one of the best threads. I so can't wait to get all my skellies programed and running. I've decided to get the exorcist, so now I'm really excited with all the new possibilities.


----------



## HalloweenBob

You're Welcome. It has been my pleasure.

Please don't forget, that this whole thread was inspired by the great work that Mike C had done over a year ago. That was the thread that I just couldn't get out of my head until I did it myself.

All credit for this idea and concept goes to him!

I may do exorcist next year. My budget has run out for this year, I'm afraid!

I have a new shot of the group decked out in their tophats:










I see I need to raise the plunging neckline on the girl singer. After all, this is a family show! The dress was made for someone who fills it out a bit more.

I also have uploaded 2 new videos to YouTube. They are not available yet, but I will post links as soon as YouTube is done processing them.

If you want to check yourself, the title of the first one is "My 3 axis skull Halloween Quartet sings Graveyard Rock". If you type that in the search bar on YouTube exactly, and it has finished processing, it should bring you right to it. The second Video title is "3 axis skull Halloween Quartet sings The Headless Horseman"

My wife is on her way home now with material for cumberbuns. I just couldn't help myself. Normally, she has not gotten into my Halloween habit, even avoiding it some years altogether, but she is finally coming around. She loves this new project and actually has asked to see the progress and has started participating in making stuff. I'm not going to push her into any of it, but I'm glad she is finally coming around to the "dark side".


----------



## hitchhiker

For the covering of the dress opening how about some black tuille. $1.00 a yard most time at Wally-World. Awsome quartet. The kids should enjoy the "Show".


----------



## HalloweenBob

Here are the YouTube links:

YouTube - 3 axis skull Halloween Quartet sings The Headless Horseman

and

YouTube - My 3 axis skull Halloween Quartet sings Graveyard Rock

Sorry the video quality is so bad. Still no video camera, just a cheap webcam!


----------



## BATFLY

EXCELLENT!!!!!!!! **claps**

i love the two screams near the end of the headless horseman song. the casket closing in the second video at the very end is cool too. so is in the beginning when they all look around! great programing. how much time have you spent on just programming?


----------



## HalloweenBob

It took several days for each song, but of course, I wasn't able to spend an entire day on it, so probably 8 or 10 hours per song.

There is going to be more to the headless Horseman song. The middle guy will be holding another skull, which he will lift up at appropriate times during the song. The jaw on that extra skull is also programmed to move.

There will also be all the lighting that I have programmed through the kit74 card. It will include spotlights for all featured singers, a large 3 foot blacklight tube for the whole group, one light for the audience and a couple of general color wash lights for the whole group.

It's getting there, but there is still plenty more to do.


----------



## Evil Bob

Dang Bob! Great job!!


----------



## thedudedrummer

absoulutely amazing!!! I was completely floored when I saw this! Cant wait to see the addition of lighting to the mix!!


----------



## ruafraid

awesome job ! That's just so freaking cool.


----------



## dionicia

Where did you snag the nice threads?


----------



## childofthenight

WOW my hat off to you and bowing. I hope to be able to do that some day then I'll know Ive reached the top of my game. once again ...a...aa.. i just can't find words!WOW!


----------



## Dr Morbius

Vey nice work, Bob...I have just one TINY little detail that bugged me, and you may or may not care, but when the whole group sings "With a hip-hip hop and a clippitiy clop" more towards the last 1/4 of the song, the females jaw isn't moving, yet it can be clearly heard that she is vocalizing along with the background singers. Otherwise fantastic job, man.


----------



## HalloweenBob

Good point, Doctor. In fact, I do care, and I will fix that.

Originally I did have her jaw moving there. Then it looked to me that there wasn't time for her to be singing that line and then get back to her own lead without taking a breath. It seemed 'unnatural' to me, so I took her jaw motion out. It has bothered me a bit ever since because I do hear her voice in there, but I have shown it to a bunch of people and no one has noticed until now.

I suppose that if I have created a group of skeletons all dressed up for the prom singing songs on Halloween, I shouldn't worry about whether something looks 'unnatural' in the way one of them sings a phrase.

I will put the jaw motion back in! Thanks for bringing that up.

To answer dionicia's question about the threads........eBay! even the dress and the tophats.

Pretty good prices too, but it does all add up.


----------



## Dr Morbius

After she sings "He's a looker with a head to chop", she takes a breath, so I don't think it's a studio dub at all. It'll be better with the jaw motion added, I'm sure of it. But yea, even if you don't add it, it would look fine. I'm just a stickler for details.


----------



## Evil Bob

Dang, I'm not going to post my finished video! lol


----------



## The_Caretaker

*WHAT!* you can't do that to us


----------



## BATFLY

hey, wait woa WHAT? no battling of the Bobs!!! we need to see your video too evil bob. =D

no contrast and comparing!


----------



## Evil Bob

Well okay then. But Dr. Morbius can't see it. 
;-)


----------



## BATFLY

HOOO AH!
LOL too funny! xD


----------



## Dr Morbius

evilbob said:


> Well okay then. But Dr. Morbius can't see it.
> ;-)


LOL!


----------



## buckaneerbabe

Come on E'Bob it's show and tell time.


----------



## HalloweenBob

Brookshire software's VSA

http://www.brookshiresoftware.com/


----------



## needbrew

*Larger Rob*

Let me just start by saying great work. I am looking at building three of these for next years haunt and was wondering if you though a lrger threaded rob could be used with a larger Steel Ball Joint Rod Ends. They have some at McMaster that have an opening that is 3/8" instead of the 3/16" you have.

Thanks in advance


----------



## HalloweenBob

I think that would work fine. Probably overkill however.

I tried to design mine with smaller parts because of the limited room inside the skull.

Just make sure if you go with larger parts that your linkages dont start hitting each other and getting in each other's way.


----------



## needbrew

*Would these work for spacers*

Hi All,

I was searching for spacers and came across these.

https://fairwayfasteners.com/display.asp?id=566&sra=5

They might give enough room


----------



## HalloweenBob

Nice find!! Those look like they would work very well. I have saved that page in My Favorites!


----------



## HalloweenBob

*Update...*

I haven't had a lot of time to work more on this project lately. Stupid things like work have been keeping me busy!

I have been having trouble with the pulley mechanism that will enable one of my undead to lift a skull he is holding in the air while that skull sings or delivers his lines.

I have a high torque servo mounted in a servo power gearbox from servocity.com. I attached a large (6") pulley wheel on the large gear of the gearbox, but the ratio was off and it was too slow. I think I will also have to incorporate a counterweight to help with the lifting.

At any rate, I just ordered a different gearset and installed it that will give me a one to one ratio. That will speed tings up a little. I hope to test it later today or at least this weekend.

You may ask, if it's a one to one ratio, why use the gearbox?

Good question.

I need the gear to spin around more that 360 degrees. This requires a special multi-turn potentiometer which has to be mounted outside the servo in the gearbox. I have the pulley mounted on the gear that is attached to the potentiometer because it has mounting hardware on it. The servo gear does not.

If I have lost some of you, don't worry, I will post more pictures.

For now, here's a picture of the servo power gearbox:










you can see more pictures and specs here:

http://www.servocity.com/html/spg645_power_servo.html

I am using the Hitec HS-645MG servo as pictured.

Instead of the long arm attached in the picture above, mine has a pulley wheel attached to that gear.

The other difference is the ratio. The picture shown is a 5 to one ratio. Mine now has two gears of equal size.


----------



## Moon Dog

HalloweenBob said:


> I haven't had a lot of time to work more on this project lately. Stupid things like work have been keeping me busy!


Don't 'cha just hate it when that happens?!? 

Excellent work! Do you just Google what you looking for to come up
with these different sites?

Like "servocity"?


----------



## HalloweenBob

Yes, I googled the items I wanted and found the places with the best prices or places that have been recommended to me by others. Servocity has good prices and excellent customer service.


----------



## Evil Bob

And they include candy with their shipments. I got two tootsie rolls and two dum dums. And two hi- torque servos, lol.


----------



## Evil Bob

HalloweenBob said:


> I haven't had a lot of time to work more on this project lately. Stupid things like work have been keeping me busy!
> 
> I have been having trouble with the pulley mechanism that will enable one of my undead to lift a skull he is holding in the air while that skull sings or delivers his lines.


Wow Bob, you are very ambitious! I've limited my singers' secondary motions to cyclical repeating motions like pivoting at the waist, kicking peglegs, playing instruments. In other words, motions that can be done with ordinary, non-servo motors. Please take a video of this!


----------



## HalloweenBob

EvilBob,

Why did you mention that? Now I have to find a way to get all the singers to pivot at the waist to the beat of the music while playing the Upright Bass, the Drums, and Piano and kicking their legs while they lift up singing skulls!

That's a lot more work than I was planning on!

LOL

I will post more video as soon as I get the kinks worked out. Hopefully this weekend.


----------



## Evil Bob

Go ahead Bob, you still have 3 weeks!
I can control when the secondary motion turns on or off within the song, but not what part of its cycle. Oh well, it's a cheap trade off for the additional motion. If I get enough things moving, the trick or treaters might not notice I'm not using 3 axis skulls...


----------



## HalloweenBob

OK...here's what I have so far.

I have re-assembled the gearbox with the new 1:1 gear ratio and have re-attached the pulley wheel.

Here's what it looks like bolted to a shelf with an aluminum bracket I made:










I drilled a small diagonal hole from the center of the wheel inside the groove to the outside of the inner wheel. You can see the fishing line knot tied where the hole comes out.

I inserted 2 separate fishing lines. The two lines are wrapped around the wheel in opposite directions. One goes up to the ceiling and through a small pulley:










And the other goes the other way and is attached to a plastic bag filled with sand. You can see it hanging down in this picture:










The bag is a counter-weight so that I don't need as much torque to lift the arms and the skull.

Here's a closer look at the wheel with the two lines extending from them:










The line that goes up to the ceiling then extends straight down to where it is attached to the top of the skull being held by the middle singer. Here is a shot while the head is NOT lifted. It is my hope that while it is in the down position, it will be hidden by a large tombstone I will have in front of these guys. (The lighting will be behind the tombstones)










Finally, here is what it looks like when the pulley spins and the skull is raised up:










The skull also has a servo in it running it's jaw. The wire runs up the sleeve of the singer holding it. The skull has a bunch of lines in the dialog we are writing and also sings some important lines in the Headless Horseman song. This was a solid foam one piece skull that I had to hollow out and cut the jaw off, then re-attach it with the servo. It looks fine if you don't look too close.

As soon as I can get some video shot, I will post it. I was very happy with the smooth and quick motion of the arms and skull lifting up!

Remember, the placement of these guys is temporary. They will be outside on the big night.


----------



## Evil Bob

Great pics! Those foam skulls are terrific, aren't they. Good luck and hurry up with the video!


----------



## dionicia

I'll take two of everything please.


----------



## buckaneerbabe

HB, you never cease to amaze me with with your talent!! I can't wait for the show!!


----------



## indianaholmes

First let me say "Props to Halloweenbob for a tutorial that got me thru this". I used a spoof of Abott and Costello's "Who's on first". I am thrilled with the way it came out. I would have liked to add moving eyes to this but time did not allow. Maybe next year. Also for next year I will add some lighting that will enhance the entire prop. But for this year, I plan to have these two as scarecrows. Here is a link to my photobucket showing the progress I have made. http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/indianaholmes/ . It is the first entry. Thankyou Halloweenbob for making this prop a reality. I had a blast doing it.


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## dionicia

Those were pretty good. 

I can't wait to try and make one.


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## HalloweenBob

Nice job indianaholmes!

Good script and good job on the voices as well.

An all around first class job.

I'm glad if my work has either inspired or helped you in some way. That's what makes it worth posting all this stuff.

Got real busy over the weekend, so I didn't get my new video made yet. It's still coming. I'll post it here soon.


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## HalloweenBob

OK, I've been busy tonight. I finished programming two more sequences and added some more functionality to the Quartet.

I have posted 3 new videos on YouTube.

The first is a revised version of the Headless Horseman song with a new twist. It's hard to see in the lighting I used, but there is a tombstone in front of the three background singers. It will be set up that way on Halloween, but they will all be outside.

Here is the first link:

YouTube - 3 axis skull Quartet REVISED

Next, I figured the group needed a good introduction before they sing a song on Halloween night, so I have one programmed in now. This intro will play each time they sing, but it will lead into a different song each time. Actually, I will be rotating through 3 songs, with a little banter before and after each one throughout the night. It will go off every 15 minutes and will last 4 or 5 minutes each time. My Freind Chip Harris suggested the name "Sindy Skinless and the Decomposers" for the group and it stuck.

Here is the intro I will use:

YouTube - 3 Axis Skull Quartet Gets Introduced

Finally, the last song. This is all original (Except for some of the jokes which are mostly all bad puns.) My sister wrote the Zombies Song, and my wife sings the lead. I do all the backup singers. The skit and short tune that comes on first was the result of a good friend of mine and myself putting our heads together for a few minutes to try and come up with something funny and it just hit us. It sort of wrote itself once the first line came out. Feel free to critique, although I won't be changing anything major this year as time is running out!

YouTube - More 3 axis skull Quartet

You can see that I have added the servo that lifts the head up and finally gotten it working. It moves pretty smoothly.

You'll notice that the guys finally have their cumberbuns! My wife made them with some fabric from JoAnne's Fabrics.

Now I just have a few more short routines to program, and all of the lighting. There is actually quite a bit of lighting programmed into the intro and some other routines, but I don't have the spotlights set up yet. 

That's next.


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## Guest

Standing ovation !!!!


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## indianaholmes

Brilliant, simply brilliant. You have taken this to the highest level. I would go so far as to say, "better than skulltronix!!!"


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## Dr Morbius

LMAO!!! That original song you guys did...BRAVO! You guys can sing purty! Nice work on that Mr. Head..Looks terrific! and your expression when you peek in at the end..Too much! Oh and I see you have the female in sync with the Clippity clop bit..PERFECT!


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## HalloweenBob

Thank you for the kind words and encouragement. I wouldn't say these are better than skulltronix, but they are not bad for something I threw together in my basement! Add the right outfits, some good lighting and other props along with a halfway decent script and you can make up for what you are lacking in expertise and the professional polish that you get with a quality product like skulltronix.

Thank you Doctor, yes we enjoyed writing and performing the original stuff. Glad you liked it, and yes, I did take your suggestion and add in the female jaw to the sections where it was missing. It does look better now. We hope to make the kids laugh, and the adults groan with the puns and bad jokes. We realize that none of the kids will recognize the Mr. Ed theme, but it's still funny on it's own, and the parents will get the parady to add an extra level of fun for them that goes over the kids heads.

Before and after each song, we have some banter between the characters for 20 or 30 seconds. they tell some jokes that are in some way related to the song that is about to play or has just played. Kind of like putting bookends on either side of the song.

Still trying to come up with a good way to combine routines and automate them to play in the sequence I want without having to wait for each one to load first. It looks like exorcist would do that fine, but my budget is really blown for this year and I can't buy it now. I may have to wait for next year. I will be running batch files executed by a macro program, but I wish there was a way to get around the wait time for each routine to load.

Any ideas?


----------



## TNBrad

I have been readying your posting and WOW this is rally awesome and instituting too. Thanks for being so good about sharing. My sister works at Disney and your work is awesome, a great deal of detail for sure.


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## HalloweenBob

Thanks!

Ask your sister if there are any openings.....


I could get along quite nicely with the mouse.


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## buckaneerbabe

Wow!! Definitely standing ovation!!!!! Now where's my popcorn?


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## Phoenix

HalloweenBob said:


> just played. Kind of like putting bookends on either side of the song.
> 
> Still trying to come up with a good way to combine routines and automate them to play in the sequence I want without having to wait for each one to load first. It looks like exorcist would do that fine, but my budget is really blown for this year and I can't buy it now. I may have to wait for next year. I will be running batch files executed by a macro program, but I wish there was a way to get around the wait time for each routine to load.
> 
> Any ideas?



yeah.... give Jerry a call at SkullTroniX and ask about sequencer..... its Exorcists baby brother, and may be up your street


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## LV Scott T

Hey Bob, ever heard of Mini-ITX computers? Next time you've got 10 minutes (November?), go to http://www.mini-itx.com/projects.asp and browse through some of the items people have turned into computers. Two of my favorites are "Windows XP" and "PSU PC".

I notice in the list of projects on the right, there is no "skull" or "skeleton"...


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## HalloweenBob

I did find some time to look at some of those. Very cool stuff. Don't think I can fit one inside a skull however.


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## HalloweenBob

I solved the sequencer problem for VSA.

If I open all the routines, I can use a macro program to open the "Window" menu and choose one of the routines. Then the macro hits enter and it starts to play. After that, it waits the number of seconds that the routine runs, and goes back to the "Window" menu, selects another routine, and hits enter.

I played with it for a while tonight and it fired fine every time. No more than a second delay, and I put that in myself so I can be sure I don't try to start the next routine before the first is over.

The macro program can even open up all the routines I plan to use and load them up just before I need them, then execute them according to the computer clock.

The .bat file method works well, and you don't have to time out the routines, but it loads a new one each time, and you have to wait for that.

Anyway, just thought I would report that. I am using Macro Express to control it.

My new videos:
YouTube - 3 axis skull Quartet REVISED

YouTube - 3 Axis Skull Quartet Gets Introduced

YouTube - More 3 axis skull Quartet


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## HalloweenBob

Almost Human....but not quite. I do have to improve in the Video editing dept. I didn't watch the video all the way through to see that I was still in it before I uploaded. Oh well.....

By the way, Buckaneerbabe.....Do you have any new video of your work? What have you been doing with your skull?

Also KernelHappy, any new pics or video of your creation? You can never have too many ideas with this type of project.

I'd love to hear from Mike C since he was the Guy I copied all this from. Mike, how's your haunt shaping up for this year? Is your quartet making a comeback? Have they learned any new songs? As I mentioned before, after seeing your videos last year, I just couldn't get it out of my head. I wish I had the creativity to come up with an original idea like that! Props to you!


----------



## buckaneerbabe

I finished my programing last weekend but no new video yet, I think I'm actually going to wait and take them with me to my campsite then video them next weekend. I ended up only making 1 -3axis, 2 - 2 axis (Zeenon design) and 2 plain old scary terry jaw motion talking heads, I needed 2 non moving heads due to the props on top of one head and the other's positioning. I plan on building some more next year and will have the rod machined like you did as it makes me a little nervous that the 4-40 screw might not hold. I'm definitely taking extra parts with me camping though. I know I really should test them all together but I guess I live dangerously. I have ran 2 at a time but not all together. And beside HB do you think I want to put my video up after seeing what you did? I can only aspire to be as creative as you some day.


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## thedudedrummer

Absoultely incredible work there HB! I always wanted to work as an Imagineer for disney but you deserve the job over me! I am stunned!


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## HalloweenBob

Just wanted to put in an update on the spot where my quartet will be set up. I am making a graveyard next to my barn. It will have 5 or 6 tombstones in it. A couple of them right in front of the skeletons. I will be hiding spotlights behind those tombstones aimed at the skeletons.

Here is the scene as it stands now with just the fence up.










And another shot. You can see in this one that I went around the corner with the fence at the far end of the cemetary. 









Now all I need is some good lighting and some tombstones. I have the tombstones already. just have to work out how to secure them in the ground.

Finally, one more set of pics. In this one, you can read the street sign in the graveyard area.










I am thinking of using some reflective tape and making some minor adjustments to the street sign. I photoshoped it in here to give you an idea of what I want to do.










Any links to places to get relective tape, both white and green would be appreciated.

Any ideas?

My new videos:
YouTube - 3 axis skull Quartet REVISED

YouTube - 3 Axis Skull Quartet Gets Introduced

YouTube - More 3 axis skull Quartet


----------



## thedudedrummer

Great fence! Is that origional or new and distressed? My advice would be just to make a cover for the sign that just slides on over the existing one. They sell reflective spray paint at either hardware or autoshops for signs and such. I cant remember If they carry a green like that though, but they did have white. But this way if you get any complaints from police about altering the sign all you gotta do is slide the new one off. Just an idea.


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## HalloweenBob

It is an original fence. A neighbor had it in part of their back yard and just put up plastic fencing. I asked him if I could have the old stuff, and that's what it looked like.

I may look into a cover for the sign. Not a bad idea.


----------



## HalloweenBob

*Update...*

My graveyard is now set up with tombstones, a coffin sticking out of the ground and some lighting. On Monday, I am planning on bringing my quartet outside into my graveyard for a dry run. I want them out at night so I can set up the lighting and test positioning and all that stuff.

I will try to capture it on video and will take pictures. I know they will look so much better set up out there than they do now, so be on the lookout for some new pics and videos monday night.


----------



## Mr. Halloween

thats neat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## HalloweenBob

Well, I did get the guys out into the graveyard, and did a lot of work setting up the rest of my haunt as well. I had one local paper come down while I was working. They took some pictures and did a short interview. A different paper is coming down today.

What I didn't get to do was to take any video or night pictures!

Everything took longer than I thought and it just started getting too late to do the video. I did manage to get it all set up so that I was able to check and adjust the lights, hook up the real sound system, etc,

I did take some pictures of the group while they were in the graveyard, so here they are:





























It is likely to rain for the rest of the week here, so it's doubtful I will have a chance to set these guys up again outside until much closer to the day. Sorry about missing the night time video (and pics).


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## dionicia

It looks good. Can't wait to see the video of them in the graveyard.


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## Evil Bob

Bob, is putting them outside a good idea?
Looks great!!


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## HalloweenBob

I am not leaving them out unattended.

They are back inside now. I will set them up on Halloween Morning again. I don't want any rain or morning dew or animals or vandals getting ahold of them in the meantime, and I don't want them wandering off on their own, terrorizing the neighborhood before they're supposed to.

I have made them modular enough that they do set up pretty quickly. With 2 people, I can get it all set up in less than half an hour.

The rest of this week will be spent setting up wires and testing wireless devices...hooking up amplifiers and placing speakers, digging holes and trenches through my yard to hide extension cords and other mondane things.

Halloween morning starts at about 5 AM when I make the run to buy Dry Ice, then start putting everything else together.


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## MsMeeple

What good use of space. Nice details. They are stunning, Bob


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## HalloweenBob

And here is what the scene will look like at night. I did not bring the quartet out as it was still rainy tonight, but I have set up a lot of the lighting that I will use in the Graveyard scene.










The only light that is not on in this scene is the blacklight. That will only come on when the quartet sings however. I will try to get a night video, but I am doubtful that it will come out very good with the low light. I don't have a video camera. I am just using a tiny webcam for all my videos.

The reddish/orange light you see in front of the fence is actually from my streetlight. I cut a small hole in the cover that I put up on the light to let some light through and use it directionally, and to my advantage.

There actually is more light in person than what shows up here on film, but you get the idea.


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## dionicia

I know I am jumping the gun but how did your Halloween go?


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## HalloweenBob

It was awesome! thank you. Lots of TOTers AND adults who read about us in the paper. Not sure on a precise headcount, but well over 200.

The quartet was a big hit.

The only part that didn't work out was getting pictures or video. I sent some of the kids helping me out with my camera in hopes of getting some good shots. I took some before the event.

I'll see how they came out and post what I got later today.


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## Lynn

Love this ! Something like this is going to be my next BIG project ! Cant wait to get started and I know I will have lots of questions for all the experts here !


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## HalloweenBob

I don't have much, but here are a couple pics from Halloween Night.


This one was taken right before TOTing started. It was still light out, so I went around and took some shots.









Here's another angle:









We got a couple pictures of the crowds, but most were really blurry or too dark. This one was OK. Here is a shot of the group that gathered to watch the Quartet sing. They were programmed to sing every 15 minutes, and I rotated three different routines. Each of the routines would play three times in total during the 2 hours we were running.

Each "Set" consisted of an introduction to the group (YouTube - 3 Axis Skull Quartet Gets Introduced), some banter and bad jokes and puns related to the song they were going to sing (This part was short and only lasted 15 to 20 seconds....sorry no videos for these segments) Then the song. Here are the three songs we played last night:

YouTube - More 3 axis skull Quartet

YouTube - 3 axis skull Quartet REVISED

YouTube - My 3 axis skull Halloween Quartet sings Graveyard Rock

(these videos were not taken last night, but the routines are the same. The group is inside in these viedos, not outside like they were last night)

Then there was some more banter and jokes after the song played that were all customized to the particular song that just played, and finally a final segment that I call an Out-tro that thanked everyone for coming, said we would love to sing another song, but we don't have the GUTS.....and other bad jokes like that. No videos on any of that either.

Then they would shut down and the lights would go off for another 15 min. Each set lasted about 5 min.

So as I said, here's a shot of the crowd that gathered for one of the sets early on in the evening:









We got crowds like this each time it came on, then a mad rush into the Haunted Barn right after they were done.

A lot of adults came out after seeing this in the papers. We did have a LOT of kids, but did not run out of candy or glow necklaces. We gave out 160 of our 200 glownecklaces, but everyone didn't take one. Some took just candy, and others took just glowsticks, and most took both.

Hard to get an accurate count, but in total it had to be upwards of 250 (All adults included)

I have started another thread to show pictures of the rest of the haunt and some of the backstage stuff as well, since this thread is really just about the quartet.

By the way, Here's how the street sign I altered came out. The sign sits right in the graveyard. Earlier, I had posted a photoshop mock-up of what I intended to do. Here is the actual result:










The real name of the street is SCHOOL street. You can see the "S" under my green tape if you look close.


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## dionicia

Fabulous. It looks like you had a blast. Great job.


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## Sadler Vampire

*Kudos from your newest student*

I have to say that it says alot about you to see how generous you have been with information about your 3 axis skulls. 

Up to this point I have been playing with hacking Gemmy Douglas Firs, but after seeing your project, I'm eager to begin as others have in your footsteps.

Before I ask a lot of questions and waste your time, I'll read thru the older posts.

... again, what a wonderful presentation you had.


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## Sadler Vampire

*I've Been Bitten By The 3 Axis Bug*

Before stressing over details, I want to see if I have a general idea of the overall configuration. Can you please let me know if I have a handle on this, or am missing a lot of components and processes.

I put together a little overview graphic so we are all looking at the same thing.


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## HalloweenBob

Sorry, nothing shows up in your post. You are linking to a file which is on your PC. That won't work. You need to upload the picture somewhere first.


----------



## HalloweenBob

That is more than what I did.

I only had four skulls....except for Mr Head, but he only had one servo in him for the jaw. Since he was a severed head, and was being held by one of the characters, there was no motion servos for pan, tilt and yaw. I also did not set up an eye servo for him, although I could have.

My female lead singer was the only one I built with eye motion, and it was only to make her blink. Not move side to side or up and down. Just one servo for the eyes in her. The other three guys did not have this feature....although again, you could add it.

o aside from having only four characters instead of the 6 you have listed, and the fact that only one of mine includes the eye servo.....yes, that is pretty accurate.

Things you left out are misc hardware, servo linkages, the skulls themselves, and whatever you are making the bodies out of.

There are more small misc. items (mostly hardware) that you will need. I also had a high torque servo in a gearbox moving a pulley that allowed one of my characters to lift his arms and hold up Mr. Head.

You don't have that listed, but I don't know if you plan on doing something like that or not.


----------



## Sadler Vampire

O.K. for a few more general questions... 
The SSC-32 Servo Controller is:
... a board in a workstation? 
... an external board that can connect to a workstation /l aptop? 
... can control up to how many servos?


----------



## Sadler Vampire

Can you use CAT5e or similar between the SSC-32 and the servos ?


----------



## HalloweenBob

Yes, you can.

However, I would double up on the power wires if you are running a long distance or if you are running 5 or 6 servos from one cable.

cat5 wire is very thin and may not transfer enough power (amperage, not voltage) to effectively run many servos.


----------



## HalloweenBob

*WOW! Big changes!!!! Quartet For Sale (Most Likely)*

Well, I am in a quite unexpected situation. My wife has a new job which involves a five year contract two states away and it looks like we are moving.

We will be moving to a condo, not another house, so my halloween display just won't work out where we are going....and I will have no place to store any of it.

This means that I have lots of stuff for sale. The only thing is that this big move is not 100% confirmed yet, and we won't know for sure for another month or two.

I need to know if there is any interest in my quartet or any other of my halloween props before the traffic at this site slows down too much.

Most of my things won't ship very well, so it would have to be a pick up only situation.


The quartet will include everything. All four charaters complete with bodies and outfits. The computer with software installed, the servo controllers and the kit74 board, and all the lights. Even the custom routines that I have already made will go with the set.

This is ready to go. Just set it up and plug it in.

It kills me to let these guys go....we've become very close.

Any takers? Any offers?


----------



## BATFLY

so sorry to hear that =( wow, craziness. at least you got to see your vision realized for the big night. i hope they are bought at a high price and to a good haunters home!


----------



## HalloweenBob

Yes, anyone wanting to make a purchase must provide a good home. I will not break up the group. They come as a package.

I do want to see them live on....well, maybe "live" isn't the right word....


----------



## dionicia

If you were any closer to Arizona, I would be totally all over this. If you consider shipping, please let me know.


----------



## HalloweenBob

I can't even imagine how much shipping costs would be. They would have to be crated up and shipped by truck.

I believe that would be just too costly.


----------



## Evil Bob

Why don't you cut off the heads and store them until you can use them again. Like they did with Walt Disney.


----------



## bradg896

Evil Bob has a point, why not remove the heads, pack them nicely in a closet in your new place and then crate the bodies and rent a storage space? I really can't see you giving up Halloween, condo or no. You may be able to set them up in your new living room, depending on it's size, or getting hooked up with one of the various organizations in the new town that run Halloween events, haunted houses, etc. They are always looking for talent, and you have a ready-made show stopper right at your disposal! Personally, I'd give my front teeth for your quartet, but I can't see you letting it go for anywhere near 1K (IF that is ballpark, PM me, we gotta talk!), and unless you have another Halloweenophile near by, they are going to have to be shipped (Truck freight's not all that bad, Ebay does it with cars all the time). All said, I think you might regret letting this masterpiece go in the long run. I know you can always build another, but why bother if all you have to do is store what you already have?


----------



## HalloweenBob

I probably would, except that now, with this new turn of events and me having to find a new job, I will really need the money. I think I will be selling everything and down the road, I can start over again when my finances and situation is better.


----------



## MsMeeple

bradg896 said:


> Personally, I'd give my front teeth for your quartet, but I can't see you letting it go for anywhere near 1K (IF that is ballpark, PM me, we gotta talk!), and unless you have another Halloweenophile near by, they are going to have to be shipped (Truck freight's not all that bad, Ebay does it with cars all the time).


So HalloweenBob, give us a ballpark figure of where the bidding needs to start please.

MsM


----------



## HalloweenBob

I was hoping to get 2K for the quartet.

That's plug and play. All the characters with bodies, the computer with VSA software loaded, my power supply, the servo controller board, the Kit74 board, all the lights, my custom routines already loaded.

Basically, just set them up and go.

Of course, you can offer whatever you want, and I will take the best offer I get, but that's what I'm hoping fpor.


----------



## thedudedrummer

thats really fair, I cant believe how much work youve put into these and how great they turned out... I wished I had the money to help you out but I have to sell my pirate show as well... I cant even affoard a cell phone right now lol


----------



## buckaneerbabe

HB, it makes me so sad to think you have to give up your quartet. With all the work you put into them I wish I could afford to buy them off you and hold them until you get another house.
I think at 2k it's a steal and anyone who buys them from you is damn lucky!!


----------



## Evil Bob

buckaneerbabe said:


> HB, it makes me so sad to think you have to give up your quartet. With all the work you put into them I wish I could afford to buy them off you and hold them until you get another house.
> I think at 2k it's a steal and anyone who buys them from you is damn lucky!!


I'll say.

There's a reason why Skultronix charges $1300 a pop for their skulls.


----------



## Dr Morbius

Why not put them in storage? There are alternatives to selling, if you would rather keep them.
Storage facilities aren't expensive.


----------



## Sadler Vampire

How many list members on this thread are just looking into, have started, or completed and are operational with a 3 axis solution? A roll call would be helpful.
I'll Start

Bart - Just fact finding in prep to begin


----------



## thedudedrummer

I followed this plan and made a great 3-axis skull for my pirate captain


----------



## buckaneerbabe

Thanks to HB, I did!


----------



## Dr Morbius

I made one...Still have it too.My own design though, and it's a bucky.


----------



## guitarist155

i will be starting mine soon using the design here with a few mods, thanks a million HB


----------



## HalloweenBob

You're welcome. Please be sure to post your mods. Everyone benefits when you improve on a design.

This is an 'open source' forum.


----------



## thedudedrummer

The only mod I did was run the jaw servo parallel to the plate so save space, as well as routing cat5 inside and making it only two connections outside to make it more plug and play using the cat5 end terminals (male ends)


----------



## guitarist155

i am going to use the BOC from Skull Tronics mounted inside the skull as my servo controller and fit ether single axis eyes or duel axis eyes with the RGB leds. i am trying to get as close to the skull tronics as possible


----------



## MrOCT31

Is there a detailed parts list anywhere? If not, can there be?


----------



## HalloweenBob

Sorry, not all in one place. Everything is listed somewhere within this thread, but I really don't have the time to extract it all out into one list at the moment.


----------



## HalloweenBob

My move is now a sure thing. I will have to sell everything including these guys. Please see this thread 

http://halloweenforum.com/showthread.php?t=65890

for a complete list of items and email me at [email protected] to make offers on anything you see.


----------



## HalloweenBob

Congratulations to Troy who drove up from NJ to purchase my Quartet.

I have been assured that they will have a good home and he will send me pictures and video.

Thank you Troy. It was nice meeting you. 

Take good care of these guys.

(BTW, I think the lead singer has a crush on you)


----------



## Lynn

Glad they went to a good home HB......


----------



## Bilbo

I think I missed something here HB... can you start over at the beginning?


----------



## Bilbo

Seriously HB... you are missing a prime oportunity here. You should tour the country (world?) teaching people to make these. Charge a bunch, give them a shopping list, and have week-long instructional seminars.

I for one would take a week's vacation and save up all year for a personal tutorialage to make these babies!!


----------



## HalloweenBob

No problem, just give me about 8 months or so


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

HB, do you have any pix or videos of the eyeball servos/linkages?

teege


----------



## HalloweenBob

No close-up pics, but I can describe it pretty well.

I used small wooden balls I found at Michaels. They had holes drilled through them for a dowel. I drilled a small hole through the bridge of the nose and put a dowel through that hole. I mounted (and glued) one of those wooden balls (After painting them) on each end of the dowel so that they were centered in the eye socket.

I had cut a slot in one of the eye sockets of the skull. You can see it here:










That slot lines up with a small servo mounted under the lexan plate inside the skull:










You can see the servo mounted UNDER the Jaw servo. You can also see the slot that is cut for the eye movement from the inside of the skull from this angle.

This next picture is of the lexan plate turned upside down, so you can see the small servo used to control the eye motion. You can see a small metal linkage attached to the servo armature in this picture. When mounted in the skull, that linkage sticks through the slot in the eye socket.










Finally, you can see here, how I attached the eye to the servo linkage. I used a small metal hook with threads on one end. I threaded it into the eyeball and curled the other end into an eyelet. Then I connected that piece to the linkage. Once the eyeball was attached to the dowel that ran through the hole in the nose bridge, it restricted the movement to up and down only. Since the other eye was attached to the same dowel, they moved together.










To complete the effect, I added fake eyelashes so when she blinked, it showed up better.

Unfortunately, I had to sell these guys, so I no longer have them to take more pictures. I have to use pictures that I took while building them.


----------



## Troy

HalloweenBob said:


> Congratulations to Troy who drove up from NJ to purchase my Quartet.
> 
> I have been assured that they will have a good home and he will send me pictures and video.
> 
> Thank you Troy. It was nice meeting you.
> 
> Take good care of these guys.
> 
> *(BTW, I think the lead singer has a crush on you)*






You know it is kind of funny every time I'm in my Den she always seems to be looking at me. 

All four of them are in my Den (no off season storage for them), they have a few other friends also such as Freedy, Dead Donna & several Boris Skulls to play with...No wonder I hear strange noises in the night!


----------



## HalloweenBob

Thanks for taking such good care of them. Snap a picture and post it in this thread.

Tell them I miss them.

Bob


----------



## Troy

Sure will when I get Home, I'm at work.


----------



## Dr. Z

OOooh Man ! You are a genius Halloween Bob! Never Seen something like this!! I just found this thread. What an awesome masterpiece of work you did ! What are the songs your skeletons sing?


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

HB... Thanks very very much for the pix, I can see how it's done now, up, down movement..genuis again... and I think I can adapt to (and snap some pix of) side-to-side movement by running piano wire vertically thru each ball, linking them together at the back, same way you did and make the servo arm move the eyes side-to-side, maybe even drill thru for LEDs... I wonder if ping-pong balls would work well, as they have very little weight/mass/inertial for the servo to move/overcome.. I have a couple 4th grade buckys, and a whole bunch of the Wallyworld styro skulls, the same ones EB used. I will prob have to hot-glue/fiberglass cloth reinforce them so the foam isnt so frangible.. ya shudda named the servos, Winkin, Blinkin' and Nod 

Hey Troy, what part of NJ? I'm originally from Somerville(Hillsborough, across from Doris Duke's estate), wife's from Manville..

TJ


----------



## Sadler Vampire

OK ... Made the Leap and have joined the ranks ( thank God its Christmas ).
Just ordered Brookshire's VSA software and Lynxmotion SSC-32 serial port servo board.

...now heres the rub. I was also going to get the Kitsrus Kit 74 PC Printer Port Relay Board, BUT... My laptop does not have a Parallel Printer port. Just USB. So my question is this, is there another way to acomplish the same thing the Kit 74 Relay Board did but with USB? 
Likewise, if someday I want to pop for the Brookshire RAPU and dump the production on to it, how does the relay board interact / connect to the RAPU ?

Looking forward to hearing from the experts.

Bart


----------



## HalloweenBob

Dr Z,

Thanks for the compliments. I did expand on them a bit, but I can not take credit for the concept here. Mike C from this forum made the first Graveyard Quartet as far as I know, and I took his idea and ran with it. Even used one of the same songs that he did.

The songs that they sing are 1. Headless Horseman by Kay Starr 2. Graveyard Rock by Tarantula Ghoul and the Cryptkickers and 3. a Halloween carol that my sister wrote and my wife and I sang. You can see videos of all these songs by my quartet on YouTube. Just search for "3 axis skull"

Sadler Vampire - I gave you a link to USB Parallel Port adaptors in another thread. Hopefully that will help. I have no expereince with the RAPU board.

Come on Troy....where are some pictures of your Den and these guys hanging out in there?


----------



## Handy_Haunter

*Thats Amazing*

Thats soooooo cool! Thanks for posting the video out there, I love it!


----------



## Sadler Vampire

Has anyone using the Brookshire software utilized a joystick for Real Time event capturing?

It looks like it would really speed up programing.


----------



## Evil Bob

It controls only one axis at a time. I wrote my own real-time software that imports into VSA. It saves a boatload of time programming.


----------



## Phoenix

Our hot project next year is the Optical motion capture system, this can capture, record and playback in real time or via VSA up to 6 simultaneous axes.


----------



## Sadler Vampire

...and while I have the floor, does anyone know if there is a Brookshire Software users group and forum?
Thanks,
Bart


----------



## Sadler Vampire

evilbob said:


> It controls only one axis at a time. I wrote my own real-time software that imports into VSA. It saves a boatload of time programming.


can you talk me thru the practical application of your software, and the hardware involved? Its sounds like a great timesaver.

Bart


----------



## Troy

Bob,

So sorry I havent posted the pics, I will asap. I assure you the foursome is quite happy currently..Besides getting into a few "scuffles" with Mr. Krueger all is well.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Has anyone thot of buying/selling/trading VSA routines? Would they be "copyrighted" or "artitstic property of.." In the case of Christmas Light shows (light routines) the commercially available light controllers have a list of songs you can _buy_ but I havent seen anything for/abt skellys in the way of VSA routines for sale...

TJ


----------



## Sadler Vampire

Since Im starting out as a newbie myself, Ive thought about the very same question, but was too embarassed to ask.

Even a TEST sequence, that would allow you to see that all servos work and are coordinated would be helpful.

Im all for that.

BTW, just ordered (4) Lindberg Skulls. next it will be the servos. The Brookshire software is loaded on the laptop, but I don't have a good feel for it yet. I think it wont make sense to me untill the shulls are built and wired into the SSC-32 ( Whick scares the crap out of me ). Thank goodness for this forum. The SSC-32 circut board is very intimidating., but with the help of past and future posts, Even a newbie like me will get thru it. I hope Halloween Bob doesn't drop off the face of the earth on us now that his quartet have found a new home. - Bart



skygodtj said:


> Has anyone thot of buying/selling/trading VSA routines? Would they be "copyrighted" or "artitstic property of.." In the case of Christmas Light shows (light routines) the commercially available light controllers have a list of songs you can _buy_ but I havent seen anything for/abt skellys in the way of VSA routines for sale...
> 
> TJ


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

It's really easy to get things started with just a test.. 

First, come up with a simple audio clip to test the servos.. like this one: http://slavjane.org/DeadMenTellNoTales.mp3 It says "dead men tell no tales.." from the Disney ride..
here's a little longer one: http://slavjane.org/PirateWarning.mp3 d/l it, save it.. then..

With the board NOT powered... plug a servo into the Lynx board, ch1 is good.. skull off for now.. once 
it's plugged in, power the board. Open VSA, click on Tools, Load Audio File, find the DMTNT.mp3 file, click it, you should now see the sound in the lower window. Click Tools again, select WaveMotion Analysis, then OK. You should see the bar loaded in the upper window, that's what drives the servo. 

You see it's almost a solid bar the length of the sound file. You have to go in an clean it up, removing some of the "sound" from the upper window, leaving the bar just where the actual words are. Takes a little doing but you'll get it. Once the upper bar is "cleaned up" click the Play button(right edge of VSA frame), it should play, the servo should move.

The other way to do it is click-drag the mouse the length of each word in a blank CH1.. meaning do the steps above, but skip the WaveMotion Analysis step. You'll still have the audio clip which drives the servo, but YOU have to make the segments in the upper window to move the servo. That how most people do it. It's cleaner that way, and you dont have to "fix the mistakes"(remove segments) but it does take longer(maybe).. If you want sounds, you can make them, clip them from movies, songs, anything you want, save them in any format, VSA does'em all.. but .wav or .mp3 are the best quality, .wav's are lots bigger tho..

Let us know how it turns out..

TJ


----------



## Sadler Vampire

Im guessing that most people are using similar (4) 3 axis skulls? Im wondering what most are using for power supplies. Can Computer workstation power supplies be used? and if so how many would it take? One is enough for all skulls? One per skull?
-Bart


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

the board is powered by a wallwart.. and the servos get their power from the board thru the Cat5 cable... only three wires are used, the + and - DC and the signal wire, unless you have reeeeally long runs, then you can power each servo from wallwarts. You have to watch the current load.. if you have more than... oh.. 5 skulls or so, then unless you've got a 1A(approx) wallwart, you'd have to go with a bigger supply. Computer PS's have been used, as well as bench supplies... just a matter of current needed for the servos and SSc32 and whats on hand..


----------



## rottin corps

is it to late let me know I love what you did I have a great home for them my 9' grim reaper lives in the house and stand right next to the christmas tree
let me know


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Is it too late for what?


----------



## Evil Bob

skygodtj said:


> Is it too late for what?


Too late for Halloween 2007. I'd say yes.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Harharhar!!!


----------



## Sadler Vampire

Sky,

Ya lost me there a little bit there. Im tracking a few 5 vdc power supplies and wonder how big is enough, not enough, too much to basically replicate what Halloween Bob did. Are any of these a good choice?

Thanks in advance

#1) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280187011813&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=018

#2) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140193697239&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=004

#3) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140193697239&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=004

#4) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=300185997821&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=020





skygodtj said:


> the board is powered by a wallwart.. and the servos get their power from the board thru the Cat5 cable... only three wires are used, the + and - DC and the signal wire, unless you have reeeeally long runs, then you can power each servo from wallwarts. You have to watch the current load.. if you have more than... oh.. 5 skulls or so, then unless you've got a 1A(approx) wallwart, you'd have to go with a bigger supply. Computer PS's have been used, as well as bench supplies... just a matter of current needed for the servos and SSc32 and whats on hand..


----------



## gym_ghost

Folks,
I have an extra 14 servo boards that fit the bucky skull for this project. They can fit the Lindberg but will require removing some material - easily done with a file. These boards are not centered to the skull axis and you will have to modify the skull rod hole so the axis rod can clear it. Or when you make the axis bracket, you can offset the rodend to be centered to the skull. They are machined for the servos (Hitec 425BB and the 625MG). Please see attached pictures. 

If interested, please send me a PM. I WILL ONLY RESPOND TO PM and not postings on the thread. I will only charge for shipping - $3.50. And this will not be a repeat of the air cylinder fiasco. 

Again, I only have 14 and will limit it to 2 per person. 




























Basically, during our prototype run we somehow accidently moved the tooling on the second operation and it caused the servo mount holes to shift .30 off center. I did modify a bucky and we got it to work okay. Had to file away about 1/4" from the skull rod hole...

I will also include the 5-40 screws necessary to hold down the servo's. 

Regrettably, I do not have any rejected axis rods or skull brackets. 

Nothing else, you can use it to make a talking bucky skull. 

Graveyardmadness


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## thedudedrummer

Wow Teege has gone frome student to master really quick  You are the chosen one


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

(Yoda speak) Err.. the chosen one, not am I. Powerful Jedi are yooo... powwerful Jedi! 800yrs(..ok 8 months..) council given you have! Padawan learner am I, not powwwwerful Jedi you. Learning the ways of the force am I, not knowing, learrrrning... powwwwerful learrrrning.. reeeeeeading! Much reading in me.. muuuch reading.. Try, or try not.. there is no fail..


----------



## thedudedrummer

hahahahahahahahahaha jedi or not young padawon, make me laugh you have


----------



## gym_ghost

ALL PLATES ARE GONE - NO MORE PLATES! If we get any more rejects, I will post them here. 

Sorry,
Graveyardmadness


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## Dr Morbius

Wait...you made 3 axis plates for BUCKY's? I thought Buckys were too heavy for this kind of setup. How well do they work?


----------



## gym_ghost

"- Testing has been completed with using the 425 servo's and the servo's took a beating. In fact, one servo sustained some serious gear damage and another hour of testing it would have failed completely. We're moving the bucky to the 625MG servos. This morning, we assembled two and they are currently running. We plan to run them until they fail. Some good news, the 425 will work for the Lindberg." Engineering Notes: 12/30/07 SKULL 3 and 6 REV X4. 

We ran three complete assembled bucky's, using the 425 servos, for about 32 hours. This test was very aggressive with tilt and rotate movements. The average haunter would never encounter such movements. After about the 15th hour, we notice delays and some noise. We brought them down and checked the servos. They seemed okay and we continued testing. At 32 hours, we notice a big delay on one of the buckys. We took it apart and did an autopsy on the servos. See notes above.

We are currently running Bucky's with the HS-625MG and they seemed to be doing very well and we have notice a big difference with movement and such. 

We have successfully tested the Lindberg skull for 60 hours (using the 425) and did an autopsy on the servos - perfect. 

To answer your original question - yes, you can build a bucky using 425 servos. We designed the plate, servos, and angle bracket to be dead center with the bucky skull. For the normal haunter, our system will work with no problems. 

The secret is keeping the skull center and true to center movements. This took us about 10 trials and errors to discover. Once found, it made a big difference and I mean a big difference. I will post a picture of the angle plate that we’re using. Those 3 holes are critical for centering the skull. How this works is once the Bucky is assemblied, run it and if you notice drag, move the complete assembly either up or down on the three holes. In most cases, it fixes the problems. Keep in mind, we do validate the bucky weight prior to assembly. Of 30 checked, 2 were outside our weight limit... this is one of the main reasones were not going any further with this 425 setup configuration. 










Regrettably, we won’t publish pictures of the finished product. We added one little feature that acts like a counterweight – is it needed – no, but its making a big improvement. So far, were up to 64 hours and at 50 hours we encounter our first noise. This is using the 425 and a bucky skull. 

Testing is done via 20 minutes on, 20 minutes off. 

I will see about getting some video uploaded. 

The plates we supplied will work as long as they are true to the skull, that is they are right at the top of the skull lower half top, and the rod area is cut away so it can move freely. Is it the best setup, no. But we did build one bucky out of these and had encounter very few problems - problems that can easily be overcome by making some bracket adjustments. To ensure there are no problems, we recommend the users of this plate go to 625MG. Yeah, they are expensive. To make it even better, I will ship out brackets to those that got plates in a few weeks (we're modifying the axis rod). I rather them use are plates then them trying to fabricate something and coming back here saying its does not work. Ugg... I better include the rod assembly too... okay, for those of you that recevied our plates - I will mail out brackets and rods too. Please post feedback here of how it worked for you. 

Graveyardmadness


----------



## Dr Morbius

Crap, I can't believe I missed the great plate giveaway. Any chance of posting templates for those of us who want to machine our own? Nice work BTW. Glad to see it works!


----------



## gym_ghost

Regrettably, I can't post drawings or templates - YET! We're still in design and development and hope to have this project wrapped up soon. I will continue to post rejected material on this site for those that can use it. Reason being is I hate having different configurations out there that do not work with other revisions. Configuration control is very important.... ugg, speaking like an engineer again. 


Sorry,
Joel


----------



## Sadler Vampire

four,....count 'em FOUR lindberg skulls arrive UPS today. Time to order servos. 
Tee Hee Hee


----------



## thedudedrummer

congrats! just dont breath in too much of that modeling glue  

oh btw... rustoleum makes a great aged bone color spraypaint called "fossil"... I used it on all my lindbergs and that way they werent super brilliant white (tea and coffee staining do not work on this type of plastic so paint and airbursh are your best bets)...

Post some picts of the new arrivals


----------



## MsMeeple

Where do you order your skulls from?

MsM


----------



## thedudedrummer

They look to be bucky skulls, and those go on sale right after the transworld show for about 2.50 each at ACC, but again those are 4th quailty skulls.


----------



## thedudedrummer

as for lindberg skulls, ebays your best bet, just ask for a deal when you buy several


----------



## wilbret

Wow. 

I am amazed with myself for something as lame as making a box jump, spit smoke and growl. This stuff is off the charts remarkable. I wish I had a quarter of your talent!


----------



## gym_ghost

I have 8 rejected servo plates for the Lindberg skull. These are pre-cut for Bob's 3-axis configuration. The only problem with them is the threads are all stripped out . You can drill a bigger hole and retap or use a small nut and bolt. Originally they were for 5-40 screws. 

Those that already got their plates for the bucky, please do not ask for them. I will be shipping these out next week, or if you want, and you can wait two weeks, I will include the axis rod and bracket. 

And just out of curiosity, for those that got the original bucky plates? Are they going to work for you? Look for your bracket and axis rod in two weeks. We finally got the new rod to work (better adjusting). 

Please send me a PM. I will only respond back to PM for these requests. 

Only 2 per request.

Thanks
Graveyardmadness


----------



## gym_ghost

All taken! Thanks


----------



## thedudedrummer

wow that was quick


----------



## gym_ghost

Some good news and some bad news...
Folks, we had a failure today on one of our 3 axis skulls using the aluminum rod axis. The rod snapped at the base where the rod end is mounted. Basically, at the .185 diameter to the angle cuts to allow the rod end to move more freely. We took the other two off line and notice one rod .185 was bent about 5 degrees off center axis. And the other had some stress cracks developing. This was after 38 hours of testing. 

The good news is - the new rod dimensions work and there is plenty of clearance to use 4-40 rod connectors and the like. 

We're going to go back to using steel bolts (McMaster Carr 91247A234) to manufacture the rod axis. We plan to start machining these parts early next week. The servo brackets are done.

So for those of you that already got your plates, look for the new rod and bracket sometime during the end of Jan. For those of you that elected to hold off and have everything delievered at once, around the first of Feb. 

Again, no charge for this and just post pictures of how it works out for you.

Also, for those of you that PM about what servo to use - if you received a bucky plate and plan to use it in a bucky skull, use the HS-625MG (the 425 will work, but you have to have the center axis to the servo plate dead center - the plates we gave you are not dead center). For those of you that plan to use the Lindberg skull, you can use HS-425BB. 

I will send directions out on how to use the HS-625MG with the new rod. You have to mount to servos on the back side of the plate.... 

Thanks
Graveyardmadness


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Has anyone tried using a little larger diameter rod bearing.. 3/8", 7/16" or even 1/2" opening for strength? That would make the rotate arm a little bigger, but would going with at least 3/8" vertical rod make it less seceptible to fatigue or is it a matter of "neck" clearance, letting the skull tilt/nod without 'bottoming out' on the rod? Wondering..

TJ


----------



## gym_ghost

CaptnJackSparrow,
The 10-32 x 3/16 rod bearing works nicely. Small and easy to adjust. Going any bigger is going to increase the sizes of some other components (the rod axis and the rod end height holes on the servo bracket.) And now the area for movement gets smaller. Luckily, the axis rod has absolutely no bearing with the weight of the skull. And keep in mind, all rod ends have an angle of movement and it’s pretty much universal. We originally went with aluminum for it was easier to machine and thread on our NC Lathe. When we originally did it with steel, we went through about ten 4-40 taps. And scrapped about 30 rod axis. We calculated the aluminum rod to handle about 65 lbs. Some how we screwed up on our engineering calculations. Regardless, steel parts will be cheaper and work much better and it should support about 300 lbs. 

Also, we purchased 500 10-32 x 3/16 rod ends and must use them.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Hi Joel,

ok, was thinking that the larger diam. rod (maytbe even all-thread) would be able to take the shaking/weight having a larger core than the thinner 3/16" rod... Waiting with baited breath on the rod and bracket 

Thanks again for all you do!

TJ


----------



## gym_ghost

How many plates did you get? And do they fit your skulls? And what type of skulls? Sorry for all the questions... just making sure we do it right this time.

Thanks
Graveyardmadness


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

I got the two plates couple weeks ago. I using a Bucky skull from Cowlicious.com. The plate's a little loose in it. I'm going to put small nylon washers between the edge of the servo plate and the skull to make it snug and once its drilled and screws installed it'll be a solid fit. The Cowlicious skull kit was a single jaw servo only, but the plate'll work fine. I'm waiting for the after-sales to pick up a bunch more skulls and full buckys. 

TJ
(formerly skygodtj)


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

For HalloweenBob.. HB, I know the quartet has moved on (sniff sniff) but re-reading thru all the posts from the beginning, did you switch swivel bearings once, or twice? The first bearing I see was page 1, post #6, part #2458K111($4.97) from McMaster, then on page 2, post# 50, you list part #59915K271($9.. that came from the "bend skull with heatgun" mod).. reading more, on page 3 when you switched to the A-frame pivot, (post #94).. is that the second swivel bearing? With a Zerk(greasegun) fitting? Before I got to pg 2(the second swivel) I ordered the first part number  Is there much difference?

Thanks, TJ


----------



## gym_ghost

CaptnJackSparrow,
If you need a few rod ends, I have a few hundred in inventory (we paid $2.29 per each). Let me know and I will ship a couple out too you. I can include it with the rod and bracket that will be going out soon - no charge. (Rod's are being manufactured as we speak and should be ready for pick up next week.)

I'm glad the plates will work!

Thanks
Graveyardmadness


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

That'd be excellent!! Thanks GG!! Other than those for the lexan plates and brackets that were rejects, you'll be "mass-producing" ...if 50 or so is a mass  ... machined rods and brackets for haunters to buy? 'Would sorta be like buying finished parts to make our own skulltronics skulls?

What I'm planning for some of my skulls.. I made up a bunch of 3-servo only Cat5 cables using this wiring plan for 2-axis only(rotate/nod/jaw):

Solid color wires = servo control(pulse) 
Bright striped (grn striped/org striped) wires = B+ (POS)
Dark striped (blu/brwn) = B- (GND)

I cut the end off a 6' Cat5 cable, split the colors as above, soldered each:

servo's yellow(pulse) to a solid color...
servo's red(B+) to the grn/org striped pair
servo's black(GND) to the blu/brwn striped pair.

The solid brown is spare right now but is open for adding the 4th servo anytime. Can also be used to power LED eyes! The snipped end from the servo goes into the controller box. For extra controller servo sockets I am using CD audio plugs.. I have a lot from old computers, just move the outside wire next to the other two and it goes on perfrctly.

Soldering one end of the Cat5 to the servos leaves the other plug end intact, so it can plug straight into the controller socket, or into a Cat5 cable coupler to lengthen the run. If I think I will need it longer, I can use a 25' Cat5 cable. The sockets will have all the control wires punched into the left side of the socket, and the B+ and GND on the right side of the socket..

Each skull will have the same setup, a lexan plate, swivel/rod end and mounting area for the 4th servo(tilt). Why just 3 servos? Cost mainly.. but 4th can be added anytime..

I'm also goin to have abt a dozen bluckys either with the bucky skulls, or just a pan-in-the-neck servo  so it will look around the yard for now.. Will be better than just having him stare straight ahead.

TJ


----------



## gym_ghost

parts for sale... NAH ;-) Mass producing 50 skulls... hmmm... kind of low. 

At this time, were glad the rejected material can be used. I would hate to have thrown it all away. Some good news with first turn arounds - our third NC machine goes online Monday so we will be doing more prototype and production runs... 

More material to be coming soon!!!


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

G_G... you arrrrrrr funding all this urself, and even tho they arrrrrr rejects, you arrrrrr still paying for shipping all this out, can we send something to help this 'research'.. seems only fair to us.. or at least me anyway  If you do have enough, I could use 6-8 rod ends for some bluckys I'm trying to build for distantly-viewed props...

I figured out some very easy obtainable tapered spacers... plumbing compression sleeves! These are $1.40/per bag of 24 at HD. I also bought a bag of 10 plastic compression sleeves to try but I thot that the brass would be stronger. Only limitation is that 1/4" OD is the smallest HD had.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Build update... 

the plate for the bucky fits very well, I only had to flatten the front of the inside of the skull so the plate would sit flat. The screws secure the plate inside, level with the back of the skull, and just less than an inch below the front of the skull. I have the jaw servo to install, fit a pivot bracket, the servo arms and this test bed skull is finished..



teege


----------



## gym_ghost

CaptJack,
My philispohy about this whole thing is if someone else can use them - let them use them. Its not about money - its about having fun and learning at the same time. Plus, we make enough money selling other props and such. Keep in mind, to most of us, this is a hobby and not a full time gig (yet). I am just a regular haunter like you!

I'm, no, WE, are all excited that our material can be used elsewhere. And the reward will be to see the finish products up and running.

I will ship you 8 rodends, 6 more servo plates, 8 brackets, and 8 rods - all meeting our quality standards. Just keep posting pictures of your work so all can learn.

Again, they will be going out early Feb.

I am glad to see the rejected plates are working. I have received a few nice emails.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Ok, G_G, many many thanks from mmyself, and the others out there that arrrr using the rejects, tho we cant figure just _how_ they arrrr rejects.. they look A1 to us!  

Thanks again!

teege


----------



## Dr Morbius

gym ghost, check your Email. I think you might be interested.


----------



## HalloweenBob

Capt Jack---

I used both types of swivel joint or rod end. I bought the one listed in McMaster Carr, but got a few others locally. If I remember correctly, they were the same size and had the same thread size, only some had the grease gun nipple and some didn't. It was just what they had in stock.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Thanks HB.. I got 8 of the 1/4" rod ends from McMaster, two 1/4" x 3' threaded rod cut into 12" sections from HD, and used 1/4" brass compression sleeves on each side of the rod end.. its beveled edges allow another couple degrees of tilt with the rod end.. works really well.

TJ


----------



## Sadler Vampire

OK gang...
Before I smoke the SSC-32 board... I wanted to post how I think the board is supposed to be wired. 










I also am not sure of the baud rate so I can set the jumpers. I am posting a graphic so we all have something to look at.

Help guys.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

You dont need the second supply line to servos 1-16(VS1). Just feed the board at the main DC input(VL only). Set the baud rate at 115K.

TJ


----------



## HalloweenBob

It is true that you don't need to wire the second supply line. We are assuming that you are using only one power supply. You can run everything from one supply line by using the jumpers to connect them, just be sure your power supply is rated for AT LEAST 2 amps......However.....

I did things a little differently, I used a wall wart to power the board, and a high amperage supply to power all the servos. Using the jumpers I hooked together the two servo lines, but left the board independent. The reason I did this was to reduce wear and tear on the servos. With this arrangement, I was able to cut power to the servos when not in use, while keeping the board powered up and ready.

I was also using a KIT74 board and used one of the relays to control power to the servos. Whenever a routing was over, the relay would kill the power to the servos and they were no longer active, holding the skulls in a particular position.

At the start of the next routine, I had the relay kick the power back on for the servos and off they went.

I was switching the output from the power supply, not turning the supply on and off. I didn't want any spikes.

Anyway, that's just an idea. The way you have it wired may be a bit redundant with the two power lines, but it is electrically correct and will do no damage.


----------



## Sadler Vampire

Bob, I thought I read in an earlier post that you HAD to run the second set of power lines because the board needed to see it ???

This is exactly why I wanted to put up this graphic...and why I will keep stroking it and reposting it untill it is correct.
The thread in question is this one
http://www.halloweenforum.com/showpost.php?p=371379&postcount=131
Quoating your thread below:

_* " I discovered, that even though I was sending the voltage directly to the servos, and was not using the voltage wires off the SSC-32 board, I still had to feed the DC voltage for the servos into the board in order for it to work.

I just tapped off the terminal block wires and sent that to the board, again being careful to get the polarity right.

You can see that here: "*_









[snip] end of quote

I didn't quite get it and was a little confused by this, especially since the photo is obscured and I can't see where the newer connections actually terminate to on the SSC-32. 
I hate to be a pain, but I hope that this will clear things up. I would also like to add the Kit74 feature and want to add it to this "flow diagram" . Thanks Bob for your patience.

...and per the good Capt'n , the baud rate is 115.2k which uses BOTH baud rate jumpers.


----------



## HalloweenBob

What I had done was a little different. Originally, I did not run any power for the servos to the board at all. I ran the power for the servos directly out to the servos and only ran the control wires from the board out to the srvos reducing the number of wires needed in my harness.

It ended up that I had to run the power to the board as well as to the servos to create the common ground connection shown above.

You can use a single connection to the board for power, set up the jumpers so that all the servos and the board share the same power and then power the servos from the same power supply. You would be doing the same thing there.

Sorry if this is getting confusing.

Basically I wanted to run ONE set of power wires to each skull and divide up the power at the skull end sending 5 volts and ground to each servo.


----------



## Sadler Vampire

Bob,

Again , thanks for your response. I think that this should be correct for the SSC-32, just need your signing off on the schematic & flow.
Note that I have the (3) groupings of jumpers to correspond with the correct application.










If this is correct, then next I'll ask about the KIT74 for the relay cut-out of power to the servo groups. I like that idea and would really like to impliment that.


----------



## Sadler Vampire

I believe that this is also correct for the KIT74 relay board, but being the chicken I am, thought I'd also post this for comment and confirmation.

In the case of the Computer power supply Im hacking for this project, it has both a 5VDC AND 12VDC tap, so I'll be able to power both boards AND the relays and servos for the skulls, and with the AC coming in, power the last (4) open relays for some AC lighting...I think.










Bart


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Does anyone have an idea how to power eyeball LEDS, or if a servo board is available out there that can run servos and LEDS... or would that just be a BoC (skulltronix) or ScaryTerry board?  Hmmm, wonder if I could just power the LEDS off the servo B+ and Grnd... they'd be lit as long as the servo is powered..


----------



## thedudedrummer

sorry can you translate that to english? lol ... Im great at soldering and building circuit kits, but at reading electrical diagrams I am not. Is this the equivilant of a picoswitch... I believe their called


----------



## Toetag

Hey Halloweenbob where did you get those eye bolts with the swivel inserts?


----------



## thedudedrummer

mcmastercarr.com sells them... the link is somewhere in the thread


----------



## fravak

You can also look under HEIM joints on Ebay. Make sure you get the correct threads. They come in right and left handed threads.


----------



## HalloweenBob

All the info above on the rod ends are correct. You can get them almost anywhere. With regard to the eyeball LED question...

You wouldn't take the power from the +5v off the servo board, unless you want them on all the time. That power is not switched. It stays on all the time and the pulse wire is what moves the servo around.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Yeah, I knew that  it would be on all the time.. I guess I'll look for a 5v color organ kit to run the leds, or something like the schem that put up above.. If I can find/make one small enuff, might even be able to mount it in each skull..

I got my 1/4" rod ends from McMasters... used 1/4" all-thread for the rod for more strength, two 1/4" nuts above and below the swivewl, backed against each other and 1/4" brass compression sleeves(from HD) for more swivel spacing/clearance. I'll check the machine shops around the Valley here to see if I can get them locally, might be a lil cheaper.. the 1/4" swivels were abt $5/ea.

Mike, I havent got a chance to play with VSA yet, havent really had enuff time to program but I'm hoping during the rest of the month I will.. Havent figured out if I can use my DMX Pro with VSA, but as it's really a dimmer would only work with lighting..

Thanks for the tips..

teege


----------



## MrOCT31

Just in case anyone would like the condensed version, we created a .pdf file that is basically the instructions from this post to build the 3 axis skull but in a much easier format to use or study from:
http://www.calhaunts.com/downloads/3_axis_skull.pdf


----------



## Sadler Vampire

I just finished the Computer Power Supply Hack... Clean 12 VDC, 5 VDC, and 3.3 VDC.
It's a nice package...

I also opened up the Brookshire software and basically got nowhere. Is there an online tutorial, or users group? I have so many questions.


----------



## thedudedrummer

PM me and Id be glad to answer some of them


----------



## Sadler Vampire

Whats the best On-Line deal for the HiTec servos used on these 3-axis skulls?

ebay stores range $15 to $20 ea. for the HS-425BB's , 
and $21 to $26 for the HS-65HB's

not including shipping...

Anyone find better pricing out there?


----------



## buckaneerbabe

I recently compared 5 different on-line stores and found they were all within about .50 of each other. They were all about 15. for the HS-425 BB's. You might check your local hobby shops, at least then you can save the shipping.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

I usually did pretty well on eBay, I found six -425BB's for $10/ea in Dec, and tho they shouldnt be used for skulls(but u can use them for eyes) there are a lot of -325BB's for abt $8/ea. Just keep looking on eBay. I've been to the three LHS nearby and they either dont stock -425BB's or they want $25/ea for them 

TJ


----------



## thedudedrummer

really? they have them at my hobby shop for 15 nearly all the time!


----------



## Dr Morbius

I got lucky I found a local hobby shop that will order any servo I want from HiTek..no more shipping! YAY!


----------



## Lynn

Yea, thats what I found for servos..... about the same prices. I get mine from Servo city. They are within that price and very fast shipping.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

NowThisIsScary said:


> I've had good luck with SG-5010s also. I got mine on Ebay for about $15-$16 a pair.


How do these work for you? I found a guy in HongKong that's selling 10 for $59 + $8 shipping.. ok, just got them... wahoo.. and just bought eight 425BB's at $14.95/ea + $10 shipping, so I'm set to build six 2axis or four 3axis skulls..

Also does anyone have what the min specs should be for skull use, operating speed, torque, etc?

TJ


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Good choice then, that guy has abt a hundred 5010's for abt $6/ea, coming from HongKong tho.. 3 bucky skulls came in today from GrimReaper, 2 more coming still, those are Lindbergs so I hope they work well.

teege


----------



## Lynn

Wow Captn, you're gonna have a whole army of skulls !!! I'm feeling pretty good by making one !!


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

an army of darkness (my favorite movie) 

this... ...is my _BOOM_ stick!!!


Got an email today from the eBay seller that told me that there has been a run on 425BB's and the eight I won are backordered... I _HATE_ that!! Glad this is only February and not October!


----------



## Sadler Vampire

Does the VSA software have to see the SSC-32 powered up and connected to the computer serial port in order to work?


----------



## thedudedrummer

Atleast connected... that was how it was with my kit74 and parallax boards... it wouldnt recognize anything being connected to the ports after you open it up.... it didnt seem to matter about being powered on or not tho


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

If you click the Disconnect Servos button on the far right menu line(abt 4th or 5th button down, the servo with the international NO symbol), you can make your routines and play them without the SSC32 being connected.

TJ


----------



## Twisted Dementia

Looks like its coming along real good there HalloweenBob!!!


----------



## HalloweenBob

Yes, this thread really seems to have exploded and taken on a life of it's own!

It's ALIVE....It's ALIVE!!!!

It is very cool to see what everyone is doing with this design.


----------



## Sadler Vampire

Has anyone made 2 axis eyes based upon the 3 axis skulls of this thread?

I started working on a set based upon 1" wooden round beads that I believe will articulate correctly, but I do not have the plates, Rods or servo's yet...so I don't know if there will be any interference issues.


----------



## evileyes

could you just use a PING-PONG ball instead?


----------



## Lynn

Sadler, My eyes started out like the 2 axis mechanism, but I couldn't find the room to make it work out quite right. Let me know if you find a way !!!

I think I have a mechanism that seems to work ok though....Not as much range of motion like I was hoping, but not bad... Where the rod goes down for the jaw movement made the side to side movement restricted somewhat... but it will move the eyes in a circle if wanted...

I haven't tested yet with VSA to see how it looks yet...... the computer I had given to me didn't have a power cord and I didn't realize it till this afternoon. I'll have to wait till tomorrow eve to get vsa installed on it and try it out in a day or two..


----------



## HalloweenBob

I have also seen the deoderant balls used. They seem to work out well. Evileyes, you could just use ping pong balls, but then you would have to build something to hold them and allow them to swivel in all directions, etc. Why re-invent the wheel. The deoderant balls already come assembled and they are even the right color. Just paint on some pupils, throw an LED in there and your off to the races.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Has anyone used styro skulls(other than EvilBob)? I bought 12 from BigLots last season and want to use them in addition to the buckys, but I dont have any info on where's the best place to cut the skull cap to mount a plate(if I even can), servos, etc. EvilBob used 2axis servo brackets he got from Lynxmotion.com, but he said they had poor performance.. If nothing else i'll use them for jaw-only singers..

USPS just delivered the two Lindberg skulls I won last week... WOW!!! I have NO idea the difference in the weight between Lindbergs and Buckys! An empty Bucky weighs 2.8lbs! The Lindberg close to 1.2lbs... the Lindberg actually didnt register on the digi-scale so I had to weigh them together (4lbs), then just the Bucky(2.8lbs)... I see why Buckys need beefier servos... dang!! ..means I gotta pop another $6-$8 per Lindberg.. and why Gym_Ghost's reject plates fit Bucky's, I'll have to trim them down on the bandsaw to fit the Lindbergs.. Anyone wanna buy 4 bucky skulls 

TJ


----------



## buckaneerbabe

Hey Capt'n, have you seen this thread showing where EB cut his out yet? I purchased the bracket from lynxmotion last year but really didn't need it so it's just collecting cobwebs. I'm thinking I'll use it for something else this year, although it does look to be an easy build. 

http://www.halloweenforum.com/showthread.php?t=61938&highlight=pirate+skulls&page=2


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Hi BB, thanks for the link, dont know how I missed EB's thread, but I see it was way before I joined this rollikin' band of scallywags  'got the pix of the foam skull opening so I'm going to try that version and attempt to make my own brackets, if I cant then I'll have to call Lynxmotion to order a couple.. the foams arrrrre half the weight of the Lindbergs, which arrrrre less than half the weight of buckys..

TJ


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Anyone find a good, low-cost source for Lindberg skulls? Most places I found arrrre abt $19 + $8-$10 to ship...

TJ


----------



## thedudedrummer

haha Ive been looking for one of those for over a year now


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

yeah, the ones I found are almost $30  'guess we just have to keep looking Mike..

teege


----------



## Dr Morbius

Sadler Vampire said:


> Has anyone made 2 axis eyes based upon the 3 axis skulls of this thread?
> 
> I started working on a set based upon 1" wooden round beads that I believe will articulate correctly, but I do not have the plates, Rods or servo's yet...so I don't know if there will be any interference issues.


Well, I haven't built a linberg 3 axis, bit I have built a Bucky skull 3 axis, and I'm currently working on the 2 axis eyes for it. Servos not mounted yet, the uneven motion is my crappy manual puppeteering the mech while holding a video camera. 2 micro servos will actuate the mechanism, the eyes are 2 rollon deoderant ball halves. The space in a Bucky skull is incredibly small, and since I don't have a Lindberg skull, I have no idea if my mech would work in it.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

They look good, those arrrre just roll-on halves? How did you do the pivots? Did you try leaving the full ball in the sockets? Have you got a pix of the inside showing the drive rod?

TJ


----------



## Dr Morbius

Thanks, and yes, they are rollon halves for design purposes..I plan to replace them with molded eyes.
Yes, I tried the full ball in socket, and it made it look robotic. REALLY bad. Besides, there's no room for them. I have a vid.


----------



## Troy

*The Quartet is stirring!*

Well after a winter slumber in the Den The Quartet will be practicing this Thursday Evening as HB & I will be hooking up via Webcam, he will be able to remote access the PC that runs the Routines and give me a nice Training session. I can hardly control my excitement ....

I'll tell you I had to move them, Miss Skinless was becoming very agrivated with Dead Donna, it surely would have "come to blows" very soon if I didn't Move them.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Troy said:


> I'll tell you I had to move them, Miss Skinless was becoming very agrivated with Dead Donna, it surely would have "come to blows" very soon if I didn't Move them.


Wow, I wudda paid money to watch that! Throw in a little jello and you cud have ur own WWF(WorldWideFright) pay-per-view event going 

TJ


----------



## bw1

What happened to the videos Dr Morbius? When I click on them it says "Oops! no video"


----------



## Dark Hawke

Halloweenbob
You have probably answered this already but I could not find it. It appears that you are not using a Bucky Skull, what are you using and where are they available?
Thanks


----------



## Crypt Keeper

Is a standard 4th quality bucky skull to heavy to use for these?? I just picked up a few in hopes to get started on them !


----------



## thedudedrummer

not if you use some beefy servos... but with this design with the Hitec 425BB or the DS821's (what I use)... unless you have a system to counteract the weight such as springs or elastic tension... the servos will not be powerful enough. Look for some high torque metal gear ones on ebay... but dont be surprised to pay in excess of 30+ for each of the head movement servos (you can get away with a normal one for jaw movement).

Only problem with lindberg skulls is that they are a bit smaller than the buckys so they dont quite match the scale of the skellies.


----------



## Karlov Manor

*Finding parts at low costs*

Hi Haunters: 
I have been following this 3 axis forum for a couple of month's and have started building Bobs quartet and thought these sources might help anyone else building this phenomenal machine. 
So anyone looking for the Lindberg pirate skull P/N 71302 at 15.99 and low shipping try : Burbank's House of Hobbies 
I just bought 4 and received them in a couple of days. Fast

Enco: use enco.com can supply all the rod ends screws /plus. good source. and pricing.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Karlov, 

Thanks for the info, these guys arrrre abt $4 less than most of the eBay sellers and the shipping beats all of them by $5.. I just ordered four myself from Burbank's! I'll prob order four more next month.. 

TJ


----------



## bw1

CaptnJack I have seen the Linberg skulls at the Hobby Bench here in Phoenix. I know they have them at the 19th ave store and should have they at the Paradise Valley store.
give them a call


----------



## Karlov Manor

Hi Caption Jack
Glad this helps. As I have started to build Halloween Bobs quartet I see the need to watch costs.
For my female I am hopping to have her arm lift and wile her arm is raised she will turn her body.
I found small windshield wiper motors !2.00 but I want them to act like regular servos.
I just found a supper small controller for 50.00 its a Pololu SMC03A that will use any DC brushed motor and have it function like a R/C servo.
Although this mod to Bobs unit will be last on my construction plans
ENCO for the rod ends 4.?? boxes of screws 5.00 for 100 PCs. Worth a look If you haven't yet.
I would like to add :that Its great to see so many friendly and generous sols on this form. 
HAPPY HALLOWEEN...........................just practicing
PS :no, no web sight


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Hey Brad, Karlov!

Brad, thanks for the Hobby Bench info, HobyHouse just sent an email that they're sold out but shud have some by Tues.. How much does HobbyBench charge for the skulls?

Karlov, sounds like a great project, you can never start too soon!

TJ


----------



## bw1

CaptnJack I think they were 19.95 at the Hobby Bench


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Thanks Brad,

Ordering from HouseOHobies they are $16 and $10 to ship, but the $10 ships up to 5 skulls, so for the four I bought, they are $18/ea, came to $74 for the four, shipped. 

TJ


----------



## thedudedrummer

supposedly someone just picked up 6 from them before you ordered... and Im gonna try to stop by there and pick up atleast 5. I would do more but that takes money lol


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Yeah, thats what the guy told me.... hey, if you knew that it musta been you DD!! Did you clean him out?  BW1 said the LHS up in Phoenix has them for $20(then add tax), I will have to check the LHS's by me(there's three here) and see what they charge(or if they even have, or can get them)..

teege


----------



## thedudedrummer

nah just five for me and Im getting them tomorrow! hehe


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Just got an email frm Glen @ houseofhobbies, saying the 4 skulls went out today UPS Ground, hope they get here by Friday..

teege


----------



## Troy

The Quartet lives again! Well did a trial run on the Quartet minus Miss Skinless because she must have been damaged in transport but Bob is going to make me another servo holder. The Videos don't do these guys justice as I can attest. I'm lucky to have them and couldn't be happier...Also Bob has been a most excellent mentor with VSA & such...I've always said you can't beat Haunters, best people around!


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Yeah we just cant be beat, 'xcept with maybe a pipe or bat


----------



## HD-Lilly

really cool ..love it
love the song she singing..now where the rest of the band?


----------



## Sadler Vampire

PLEASE... PLEASE... PLEASE !!!!
We need pictures and tutorials on the 2-axis deodorant Roll on "EYES" and the mechanisms that drive them.

I for one am at a point in construction where it is better to plan for it as an addition, rather than try to retrofit it in after the skulls are completed. 

They are sooooooo cool. The 3-axis movement of the heads give the skulls life, ...but the 2-axis eyes add personality. 

* What size roll on.... ( Brand etc) ?
* What mods were made to the roll on ends ?
* What drives the roll ons ?

Has anyone been successful installing them in :
* 4th Class Buckies?
* Lindbergs ?
* other ?

...and has anyone used another technique better suited for full 2-axis movement and control of eyes in this application. something other than the deodorant "roll on" solution?

Many Thanks...
Bart


----------



## Dr Morbius

If you're referring to my mech, here I've reposted the vids..bear in mind, they aren't finished yet. The micro servos that drives them will be located just under and behing the mech. I had to remove the face from the 4th class bucky I used and removed the hard pallat bones to accomodate the mech, the face bone will be glued back on after mounting the servos.


----------



## shadowopal

Greetings all. I've spent a bit of time watching this thread and am getting ready to start on one myself. In the proccess, I have created a trimmed down version of this thread with all the important info. I haven't edited the text or anything, just cut down on the "cool" and "nice work" replys (not that they don't belong here. It is excellent work and deserving of praise. It just makes it easier to find the info.). I split it up into HalloweenBob's build and Kernelhappy's build as the file was getting to be long. They are microsoft word docs. If anyone wants them, shoot me an email with your email address. I'll try to keep them as up to date as possible. But, they are both current to this point. I'm also building a parts list and vendor list for myself today and am willing to share those with anyone who wants it. But, it may be a few days before I have a finished version.


----------



## Garage-of-Evil

Incredible.


----------



## jimmyzdc

Anyone know what happened to gym_ghost and graveyardmadness.com? I thought he was supposed to be making all the custom parts for this design for the masses to purchase?

His website looks in limbo. I have tried contacting him but nothing. I'm wondering if I should just go out and start buying the parts and getting them machined. Although it would be nice to get the stuff from him since I could get all the parts and make sure its done correctly.

Thanks!


----------



## dadgonemad

I know he was in the process of moving shops, and I think he had some quality control problems with some of the plates. My guess is that he wanted to make sure that everything was in good shape before making them available to fellow haunters.


----------



## jimmyzdc

Ya...His site says it would be back online the end of Feb. but no updates since Feb 5th....just dont wanna wait around and then his stuff never comes out.


----------



## Lynn

I talked to him the other day.... he did have a problem to correct and it sounded like that should be worked out shortly. I would think that the web site should be up any time now.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Anyone have a good lead on servos? I just filed a Paypal complaint againt a seller in HongKong, been over a month for 10 servos I ordered... last bloody time I buy anything from overseas..


----------



## buckaneerbabe

CaptnJackSparrow said:


> Anyone have a good lead on servos? I just filed a Paypal complaint againt a seller in HongKong, been over a month for 10 servos I ordered... last bloody time I buy anything from overseas..


Capt'n, Just the sale over at servocity.com. They were sold out of the 311's but still had some 425's. The prices really are pretty good.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Hi BB! 

Thanks luv, but I guess I missed the sale, 'just checked and the 425BB's are $14.99.... unless that IS the sale price.. 
I did see Futaba S3003's(10.99) and 3004's(13.99) but alas, also looks to be normal price..

Well, well... the squeaky rudder really does get the grease.. I filed the Items Not Received complaint againt the seller.. and just received an email from the seller that the servos (supposedly all 10 of them) were shipped on the 13th.. yeah.. and Davy Jones is my BFF! NOT!! We shall see what we shall see.. IF they come, that should give me 28 servos in all..


----------



## buckaneerbabe

Capt'n 
Are you trying to build a whole crew? And I thought I was crazy building 5 last year!! That's gonna be some haunt this year!!! Sure glad to hear you maybe got the servo problem resolved.


----------



## jimmyzdc

Lynn,

Thanks so much for the update!! I'll hold out a bit longer. I'm getting really excited to start this project  My Lindberg skull is looking so lonely sitting on my workbench with no servos or parts


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

BB,

Well, I have to build the Captain, to holler at 4 swabs for the pirate ship, a Spaniard to taunt on the spanish fort, three pirates in the jail cell trying to get the keys from the dog(oops, forgot, thats _another_ servo) and three pirates for the wench auction(W_e wants the red'ead_!) .. a couple of the swabs can be the bucky jaw-only skulls.. Too ambitious?


----------



## jimmyzdc

I can't wait to see that setup Captn. I hope you make a thread so we can all follow along with your progress. Good Luck!!


----------



## dionicia

CaptnJackSparrow said:


> BB,
> 
> Well, I have to build the Captain, to holler at 4 swabs for the pirate ship, a Spaniard to taunt on the spanish fort, three pirates in the jail cell trying to get the keys from the dog(oops, forgot, thats _another_ servo) and three pirates for the wench auction(W_e wants the red'ead_!) .. a couple of the swabs can be the bucky jaw-only skulls.. Too ambitious?



I don't think you'll have a problem with all that. You just have to give up extra circular activities like sleeping.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Weeeeelllll, Dionicia, you're close enuff. I'm halfway between Fiesta & Superstition Malls, right off -60 in E. Mesa... -202 to -101 to -60...


----------



## dionicia

Yeah....That would be the other side of Dodge. 

I am thinking of putting together a few of the little guys to have them argue in the prison cells. 

Definitely not as many as you're planning.


----------



## dionicia

Hey Capt'n, are you on azhaunters on Yahoo? Need to inject fresh blood in the valley for haunters.

You might be able to get extra help with your army.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Hey D, I wasnt, but just signed up... thanks for the idea, dint know there was a group here..

I donthink I've seen any thread go past abt 300 posts, and here we arrrre, knockin on 470!


----------



## dionicia

Check the, "You might be a home haunter if..." That one has been going for a few years now.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

*Lindberg Skull COOP Order*

*A COOP order for Lindberg skulls* is open right now at the "I Was Wondering.." thread: http://halloweenforum.com/showthread.php?t=67365. RBC started the coop order today(Monday, 24th), so far we have abt 15-16 skulls to order. _*These are abt the best skulls to use for 3-axis motion*_, weighing in at just over a pound(Bucky skulls are 3lbs), very little mass for servos to sling around so they would operate much better than buckys. Searching eBay, or other hobby stores can get you a Lindberg, _-at best-_ for *$16 plus abt $10* to ship _a single skull_. Right now the prices for this multiple order falls in this range:

5-10 skulls =$13.00/ea
11-20 skulls= $12.00/ea​ 
Apparently the dealer buys them for $10/ea so doesnt look like much chance to get down to a $10/ea price for us. I would think $11 would be rock-bottom, but that would prob be for 20-30 skulls. I think we could *scare up* at LEAST a 20+ skull order.. _ESPECIALLY_ at these prices. Shipping will be costs to get to you, from her... I'm ordering 6 myself, so getting a high total should be pretty easy..

Anyone wanting to get in on this COOP order, please PM *RBC* and tell her the number of skulls you want, your shipping address, and how you'd be paying.. Paypal and checks(cashiers chk/Money Order) are good, however.. 

_for Paypal payments(especially credit card).. the PayPal fee would prob be abt $2 for a 2 skull order, $3-$4 for a 4 skull order, and $5-$6 for 6 skulls... so I would plan to add that to the total, once there is a final, per-skull amt and shipping. _If that fee is not added in, when you make your payment, the cash amt would be short that fee, and RBC would have to make up the differance... and we dont want to happen.. so please figure in the above amt.. If you want to send in a check/Money Order, then it would be just the COOP amount for the total, no fees. RBC has said that there is no profit in this for her, that it is cost-only! 

If you wanna get some Lindberg skulls cheaper than you can find them anywhere, PM her, and get in on this COOP!!​ 
We now return you to our regularly scheduled thread...​


----------



## dionicia

MrOCT31 said:


> Just in case anyone would like the condensed version, we created a .pdf file that is basically the instructions from this post to build the 3 axis skull but in a much easier format to use or study from:
> http://www.calhaunts.com/downloads/3_axis_skull.pdf


MrOCT31, you have the patience of a God to put this together. 

Thank you so much.


----------



## RBC

HalloweenBob said:


> Then, I worked on making the small steel armatures that attach to the center rod that goes through the rod end which is attached to the skull.
> 
> I posted a drawing of this on the first page. I will have all 4 of my rods in the next few days, and will take pictures of those as soon as I get them. For now, here is the drawing again:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The thin piece of metal between the two nuts where it says, "Rotate Armature Attached Here" is the piece I made next. In the drawing, you are seeing a side view, so it doesn't look like much. Using the one my friend fabricated for my first complete rod as a model, I made three more. Mine didn't come out as pretty, but they will be just as functional.
> 
> I started with a small random piece of steel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I drew the shapes I needed to cut out with a sharpie and put it in a vise:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next, with a hacksaw....a VERY DULL hacksaw, I did my best to cut out the pieces, and file the edges down. I put the three pieces back in the vise and drilled out the large holes where the rod goes through, then turned them over to drill and tap the holes that I will connect the linkages to that will rotate the skull left and right:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, I tapped the holes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And now I have all 4 of the rotate armatures needed for the central rods:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I said, Mine were not pretty, but the holes are in the right places. My friend made the second one in. That's the one I copied. It does not have to be exact....thank goodness.
> 
> As I mentioned, I'll have a lot more detail on the central rod in the next few days.


 I have found that a metal coat hanger wire works well to just cut the length you need and super glue it in the ends of link set-ups. I also use a ball and cap on the jaw wire ( this is the little thing that looks like a trailer hutch and the cap snaps down over it. and swivels ) that way the wire has less stress and don't break or rust. Hi HB its Blinky


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## RBC

Thanks for posting that Jack,lol
you are a hoot


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## HalloweenBob

Hey, Blinky!

I like the swivel connector for the jaw wire idea. I haven't had any trouble with mine, but it sounds like a good idea.

I would be a little concerned with the coat hanger wire, however. Parts of my routines have the skulls rapidly shaking their heads side to side. I would think that if the super glue even holds through that, the wire would bend from the stress. I would run something like that through some pretty rough stress tests before going that way.


----------



## RBC

HalloweenBob said:


> Hey, Blinky!
> 
> I like the swivel connector for the jaw wire idea. I haven't had any trouble with mine, but it sounds like a good idea.
> 
> I would be a little concerned with the coat hanger wire, however. Parts of my routines have the skulls rapidly shaking their heads side to side. I would think that if the super glue even holds through that, the wire would bend from the stress. I would run something like that through some pretty rough stress tests before going that way.


You May be right I have only used them to make them talk not move around.
do you still have the invoice the has the part # on them for the swivels and stuff. i'm trying to set up a group buy, Thanks


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## HalloweenBob

The linkages I used were these:

http://www.servocity.com/html/2-56x3_16__mini.html


Although some people preferred the slightly larger versions here:

http://www.servocity.com/html/4-40x3_16__standard.html

As far as I can tell, either will work fine.


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## RBC

Thank you HB hugs and Kisses


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## RBC

HalloweenBob said:


> The linkages I used were these:
> 
> http://www.servocity.com/html/2-56x3_16__mini.html
> 
> 
> Although some people preferred the slightly larger versions here:
> 
> http://www.servocity.com/html/4-40x3_16__standard.html
> 
> As far as I can tell, either will work fine.



One more question HB.. what size metal strip did you use to make your brackets 1/4" or 1/2". Thanks Many Many Hugs
and how wide was the metal rotating arm piece befor you made it 1"?


----------



## DooBeeDooBeeDoo

Very good stuff, HB, thanks.

I should be ordering enough stuff to be able to follow your lead on one skull and play with my own theories on the others.

There is going to be a ton of animated skull info on this forum in a few months! Wheee!


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## RBC

I can Hardly wait to see everyone project, : Blinky is doing the happy Dance:

I'm in the process of setting upo the page for the group buy for the extra stuff we will need.
like linkages and Rods and everything else


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## HomeyDaClown

For those that would prefer an alternative to the hand-made armature,
Great Planes manufactures a large scale aluminum servo arm that is a little over 1" long by ½" wide. Just drill out the hole to fit the rod you use.










http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&P=PR&I=GPMM1100

I was digging through my parts box tonight and came up with another idea that would work for the armature.
A Hold-Open Clip for a screen door closer. It is the right size but you have to flatten out the bent lip and drill/tap
the small a hole for the servo linkage. You can get them in any Storm Door Closer Repair Kit (Ebay...).
They also can be purchased individually and on-line at $2.00 each here: http://www.allglassparts.com/product/781715460


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## Lynn

For anyone that was asking..... Graveyard Madness asked me to post this for him Or as he is also known as Gym_Ghost.

Sorry for the long delay... I thought I would get you all up to speed at once. Graveyardmadness is no more, that is to say, wa are now called GYM Engineering, LLC. These past few months the whole organization was revamped and we merged with another company that specializes in pneumatices and robotic applications. We know have accounting books, a business license, and are a LLC. Basically, a legit business.

We're still doing high end Halloween props and this includes the 3 axis skull. Unfortunately, it will only be about 35% of the business. The other 65% will be more toward factory applications and lean manufacturing. As most of you are aware , we moved the shop back in February. Two weeks ago we finally started making chops in the new shop (machining).

What of the rejected parts for the 3 axis skull. Some of you already received the parts, otheres are still on a waiting list. For those of you on the waiting list - I have not forgotten about those reject parts and I am currently pulling it all together to get it all our to you as a kit. We will want feedback. I know I have had a few requests for them. The good news is - in about two months, we will be offering a complete 3- axis skull kit, with all the hardware and servos for around $225 Bucky / $175 for the Lindberg. You will have to put it together.

At this time, we have 4 full time employees to include 2 engineers with 40 years experience between the two, specializing in robotic applications. We have a General Manager with 30 years experience as a prototype machinist and designer for robotics and pneumatic applications. He worked for Disney and Hollywood building props.

Beyond that - everything is good !

Thanks,
Joel


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## CaptnJackSparrow

Good news folks, Gym_Ghost is BAAAAACK!! He sent this earlier today with updates what's going on with his skull kit build.. Stay tuned for more info and updates on his skull kits. I asked him if the kits were avail as partial kits and we've got a number of folks with skulls and (soon to be) servos, so complete kits wouldnt be nessassary. Read thru his msg beow and start plannin for the future!

===============================================================
From: Gym_Ghost:

Sorry for the long delay… I thought I would get you all up to speed at once. Graveyardmandess is no more – that is to say, we are now called, GYM Engineering, LLC. These past few months the whole organization was revamped and we merged with another company that specializes in pneumatics and robotic applications. We know have accounting books, a business license, and are a LLC. Basically, a legit business. 

We’re still doing high end Halloween props and this includes the 3 axis skull. Unfortunately, it will only be about 35% of the business. The other 65% will be more toward factory applications and lean manufacturing. 


As most of you are aware, we moved the shop back in February. Two weeks ago we finally started making chips in the new shop (machining). 

What of the rejected parts for the 3 axis skull. Some of you all ready received the parts, others are still on a waiting list. For those of you on the waiting list - I have not forgotten about those reject parts and I am currently pulling it all together to get it all out to you as a kit. We will want feedback. I know I have had a few requests for them. The good news is – in about two months, we will be offering a complete 3-axis skull kit, with all hardware and servo’s for around $225 Bucky / $175 for the Lindberg. You will have to put it together. 

At this time, we have 4 full time employees to include 2 engineers with 40 years experience between the two, specializing in robotic applications. We have a General Manager with 30 years experience as a prototype machinist and designer for robotics and pneumatic applications. He worked for Disney and Hollywood building props. 

Beyond that – everything is good!
----------------------------------------
Second msg:

Sorry for the long delay - we have been busting our ass here with moving some contracts under our LLC (military). 

I am finally back on the 3 axis skull project and will be wrapping it up in a few weeks. We have made several improvements with the buckys and its weight. I can honestly say, the 425 servos NOW work on the Bucky skull flawlessly. We added a pully system that counteracts on the weight with the movement. Makes it move smoothly and with very little torque on the servo. Yeah, I like the bucky and hate the lindberg. 

Feel free to post any of this.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_Answer from Joel (Gym_Ghost/Graveyard Madness) as to whether he'll have skull kits MINUS the__ skulls and servos for those who already have them:_
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes we can. I would need to know how many are building Lindberg and or Bucky.
I am going to run another 40 sets this week; brackets, rods, servo plate, etc. 
And yes, we do piece by piece orders.

Joel 
(909)800-3761

========================================================

Wahooo! so there you go kiddies and campers.. The more professionally-done lexan plates, rods and brackets will be available to build with the skulls and servos we'll be getting very soon. Uh, um, I mean...

Avast there ye swabs and scurvy dogs, the booty be there for the takin soon enough to add to yer treazure of baubles an trinkets! Keep a weather eye for more loose talk an' skullduggery to folla', savvy?


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## gym_ghost

I am going to try to post a piece by piece item list here with prices. I wont gouge you!!! I am going to do a complete inventory and post it here shortly. Regrettably, we're out of Lindberg plates, but its easy enough to machine about 50 or so. Also, we made some major changes with the rod axis bracket - much easier to find center gravity of the skull and this makes the servos work much more smoothly and easier. I have the list of what I still owe a few of you and will get them out this month - finally (hurray). 

Yes, were finally back up and running - machine wise. Regrettably, Graveyardmadness is gone - but will use it for something else. 

Might interest a few of you - we are working on a robotic skeleton hand that makes a fist with the index finger moving back and fourth as to say, come here. Cool thing is, we know for a fact we can do it for less than $100. 

We're working on a flying remote control witch - yeah, I know its already been done... but still, this is something I have wanted to do for a while...

Hearses are coming along nicely and we made some major improvements with the model we posted earlier in the year.... I will be posted some pictures later on.

Joel


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## dionicia

Gym is back! Hurray. And it looks like he robbed Santa Claus for us.


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## gym_ghost

Item Number	Description	Cost
34-001 Bucky skull, pre drilled for 34-002 $15.00
34-002	Servo plate poly ¼” 425/625, Bucky	$21.25
35-002	Servo plate poly ¼” 425/625, Lindberg	$19.55
34-019 4-40x .6" flat hd socket scr (4 req) $.10
34-005	Axis rod, w/spacer 3.75”	$15.00
34-006	Bracket, axis rod	$18.50
34-009	Nut Lock, 10-24	$0.25
34-011	Pivot servo arm 18gauge	$3.25
34-015	Pivot servo arm 16gauge w/rod end 2-56	$5.20

Here is our cost price list. I wont be able to take orders for about three weeks. I am just sending it out to you all as FYI. I am not making any profit on these pieces. I will send an update out when we are ready... again, toward the end of the month. And yes, we can take credit cards or paypal, or if you have a rating of over 50 posts, we can extend terms. 

On the 4-40 cap head screws, you will have to drill the holes to match the plate. It may be easier to set the plate in and then and drill and tap it as one unit. Trying to match it with out a fixture - good luck. I can sell the pre-drill bucky. Regrettably, we only have about 5 Lindberg skulls. I am going to see if I can order a hundred or so and pre-drill them. Last order we got them for $15.50 / when we order 20. 


Joel


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## CaptnJackSparrow

Joel, 

If it's Lindbergs you need a good price for, Blinky has got them lined up at $12/ea all the time from a seller in Ca. Dontthink there is a min order...

If you need servos, I've got a permanent supplier of 425BB's at Franks Hobby House here in Phoenix, $12/ea, min order 20.

Also, your rod and rod end.. is that still 3/16" or did you bump up to 1/4"?


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## jimmyzdc

This is great news. Once I get the servos from the coop all i need is to get the misc. custom parts from gym and away I go! Thanks to everyone for making this process easier!


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## dionicia

gym_ghost said:


> Item Number	Description	Cost
> 34-001 Bucky skull, pre drilled for 34-002 $15.00
> 34-002	Servo plate poly ¼” 425/625, Bucky	$21.25
> 35-002	Servo plate poly ¼” 425/625, Lindberg	$19.55
> 34-019 4-40x .6" flat hd socket scr (4 req) $.10
> 34-005	Axis rod, w/spacer 3.75”	$15.00
> 34-006	Bracket, axis rod	$18.50
> 34-009	Nut Lock, 10-24	$0.25
> 34-011	Pivot servo arm 18gauge	$3.25
> 34-015	Pivot servo arm 16gauge w/rod end 2-56	$5.20
> 
> Here is our cost price list. I wont be able to take orders for about three weeks. I am just sending it out to you all as FYI. I am not making any profit on these pieces. I will send an update out when we are ready... again, toward the end of the month. And yes, we can take credit cards or paypal, or if you have a rating of over 50 posts, we can extend terms.
> 
> On the 4-40 cap head screws, you will have to drill the holes to match the plate. It may be easier to set the plate in and then and drill and tap it as one unit. Trying to match it with out a fixture - good luck. I can sell the pre-drill bucky. Regrettably, we only have about 5 Lindberg skulls. I am going to see if I can order a hundred or so and pre-drill them. Last order we got them for $15.50 / when we order 20.
> 
> 
> Joel


I'll need to work some OT just to take care of my Halloween habit.


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## gym_ghost

3/16 - hmm... no, we use 3/8 dia. rod for the axis. Send me a private message with your email address and I will send you our drawing. The part we machine down to is 10-24. I must stress, our parts all fit together (bracket and rod).

B/P Notes:
NOTES:

1. USE McMASTER CARR P/N 91236A640 AS BLANK
2. TAP PRIOR TO TURNING DOWN TO .37 DIM.


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## HomeyDaClown

Joel,

I talked to the main distributor for Lindberg about large quantity pricing.
I will pass on the contact info for you via PM. At your quantity, the price should be about $10 each.


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## RBC

Hi Joel Long Time No See Welcome Back

As soon as this group Buy Is Over, I will be selling Lindberg skulls all the time as a distributor if you need some.. Let me know..Hugs Blinky


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## gym_ghost

Folks,
WOW - my message box is full. Unfortunately, I am not able to take deposits nor sell until we finish up some necessary tax stuff with the state and federal. The accounting firm is currently working on this and as I mentioned before, they should be done with everything in about three weeks. Once this is done, then I can start taking orders. 

Now, I want to stress - I am only selling to you folks on this board, in particular, this thread. We are not making any profits. So with that being said, I will be validating user accounts against this thread. That is to say, if you have posted on this thread before April 1, 2008, I will sell these parts to you at our cost. If not, you will have to contact me directly for other pricing. Those I still owe parts too, I will be sending them out shortly at no cost. 

Website – yes, we will be having a website soon. I am going to post some of the products on Graveyardmadness of what we will have forsale. 

I am going to run 100 Lindberg servo plates early next week. I am going to contact Lindberg to see what our costs would be for 100 Lindberg skulls. If doable, we will be machining these as a unit; servo plate to match skull for the four 4-40 cap screws. We have a fixture design to do this flawlessly and very quickly. 

Side note - give the Bucky skull a chance ;-)~ (I am going to set one up today and take pictures and show you how it all works.... ) LONG LIVE THE BUCKY!!!! Yeah, I am a big fan of the bucky. 

Thanks,
Joel


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## dadgonemad

Like many of us, I've been watching this thread closely. Especially the pros and cons of Lindberg vs. Bucky. I'm super psyched that a method has been developed to use the Bucky with 425 servos. Can't wait to see the pics, Joel! Welcome back, and congrats on getting your business going!

-dgm


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## Uncle Mikey

Joel,
I have been following this thread for about six months. I have built the lindbrg skull. I would relly like to build the bucky skull. Could you let me know when you are up and running. Also I am a hands on person and would like a crack at cutting my own servo plate. Would you be interseted in selling the template for the Bucky?

uncle mikey


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## gym_ghost

Template for the bucky or lindberg. I have no problems posting a 1:1 scale PDF copy of the template. But keep in mind, the bucky template works with our system and parts. You would have to duplicate all the parts to make it work. This applies to the Lindberg too. 

One of the most important factors with building the skull is keep it balance to the center line of the axis rod. We took in consideration all the components (servos, screws, wire, plate, etc.) to establish the center point of the axis plate and it to be inline with the axis rod (easily over 30 skulls were built to figure this out.) 

If you plan to "stuff" the skull with the PCB boards and other stuff, you will get some drag on the servos, for you have change the center point of the axis road in ref. to the weight of the skull. 

I will post them later today or early tomorrow. 

Thanks
Joel


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## gym_ghost

One more note - if you plan to build a bucky using the 425 servos, it wont work. You will "KILL" the servos very quickly. Now with that being said, we manage to use the 425 servos with the bucky. In order to accomplish this task, we developed a pully system that acts on the weight. This we wont post. If you want to use Bucky, the HS625MG will work. The pully system is something we want to keep under wraps until were ready to go full production - sorry about that. 

joel


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## ChiliPete

This kit looks good. I was about to get started on my own, but now I may wait until I can buy the kit before I really hurt myself.


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## dadgonemad

thanks for clarifying on the 425s with Bucky. Curious, for the Bucky kits, are you including the pully system, or the beefier servos?


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## gym_ghost

The bucky kit will have the pully system. Pretty easy to fabricate, just a &#^@*( to get it all aligned... but again, that is why you will assemble it!!! (No we will include step by step instructions on how to assembly it together. In fact, that is what I doing as we speak. Getting the manual in rough draft and then sending it over to an illustrator house to make it look pretty and to make sure the grammer is correct (engineer's can't smell... ah, spell.)

Joel


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## dionicia

Will the 425 servos be a problem in lindberg skulls Joel? 

On a side note, you totally rock and it's not because it's April fools day neither.


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## gym_ghost

Yeappers - they will work fine, 425, with the Lindberg. Almost all the folks building the Lindberg are using them - with great results. 

Myself, I just like the Bucky and plan to stay with it. We built a few using the 425 and they had some problems. When we want to the 625, it was a major improvement. 

Good Luck,
Joel


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## dionicia

I will need to purchase 6 of your kits. Just wanted to let you know I am calling "dibs" on 6 of em. For the lindbergs of course. 


I've been meaning to ask, how did the haunt go last year. I remember you were doing a dead man's party theme. What do you have planned for this year?

Thank you.


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## Crypt Keeper

gym_ghost said:


> Yeappers - they will work fine, 425, with the Lindberg. Almost all the folks building the Lindberg are using them - with great results.
> 
> Myself, I just like the Bucky and plan to stay with it. We built a few using the 425 and they had some problems. When we want to the 625, it was a major improvement.
> 
> Good Luck,
> Joel



What sorts of problem did you have using the 425BB's and the Bucky skulls???

Another member said using the combination would be fine!

This makes me worry starting the project now with the buckies and or if i should get the lindbergs or what!??! 

ah the confusion


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## CaptnJackSparrow

Just a note, I'm uploading my Lindberg builds to YouTube so I should have the links to it here in a little while...

I finished my first skull tonight, and actually learned VSA! YIPPPEEEEE!!!! uh.. um.. I mean...

I've single-handedly tamed that timerous beastie wot known as the elusive tri-axis scallywagged skull! Did learn of the secrets of yon VSA giant, and fought the dragons, swash-swash-buckle-buckle.. a sequence in said program did I make, and lay waste to the disarray on my bench...

This is the day that you shall remember VSA almost bested Capt Jack Sparrow!!


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## Dr Morbius

I used 425's in my 3 axis bucky, but I didn't use the plate design...just for that reason, I knew it would be too heavy for the 425s. My mech is gangly and difficult to fit but it uses the bucky's center of gravity to keep things balanced. The weight of it is supported nearer to the to the front. Seems to me that that the key to balance is keeping the weight off of the servos as much as possible in relation to the center of gravity, meaning if you're going to do a plate design using a bucky, mounting the tilt/nod servos closer to the front would work if you modify the gimble to work forward of the neck hole. I'll draw up a pic and post it to get advice from all you engineer types to see if it is feasable. You shouldn't need pullys if this works.


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## gym_ghost

With the 425s we tried several different configurations. The Bucky skull center of axis needs to be at the center of the hole at the base of the skull and it needs to be inline with the axis rod - if not, problems. The weight ratio to front of skull to the back of the skull is 65% to center of skull base hole. Basically, the center of gravity on the skull is about 1.5" from the center of the skull base hole toward the front of the skull. Here lays the problem - how to center the skull with out machining out new holes and it interferring with the jaw?

Now, as I said before, we used 425 on the bucky with the lindberg setup and had one run for about 30 hours before one of the servo's failed. We did not have rapid movements nor did we have any X, Y, or Z plane movement extend beyond 20 degrees in one direction. The bucky is a heavy skull and the servos were working about 135% of torque to move it back to 0 plane. 

If someone got it to work without a pulley or counterweight system, KUDOS to the them. 

Now with all the being said, we're looking at a whole new approach to using the 425 servos with the Bucky. We will not be using the servo plate, but working off the skeleton rod itself and attaching the skull to U Yoke Joint that attaches to the skeleton rod. We're in the preliminary stages of development and if we can get this to work, it will be a much easier to build and control. The dynamics of movement will be flow like - that is to say, human like. Weight will not be problem for this setup. In fact, with some preliminary model build up using 4 lbs weights, we use a HS-322 with very favorable results. At 6 lbs, we encounter the first limitations of no movement. At 5 lbs, it was okay, but movement slowed down about 15%. But again, were in the R/D phase and wont be building a skull until May.

As I remind myself every now and then, the mouse trap has been around since the building of the pyramids in Egypt. The first Patent was in 1894. Since then, about every five years or so, a new idea comes about. 

Joel


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## gym_ghost

Dionicia, 
I responded under, General, title "Halloween 2008 - graveyardmadness", regarding last years and this years halloween plans. 

Thanks
Joel


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## Crypt Keeper

Thanks for the clarification on the problems.

Looks like i need some lindenberg skulls to make my life easier


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## Dr Morbius

gym_ghost said:


> With the 425s we tried several different configurations. The Bucky skull center of axis needs to be at the center of the hole at the base of the skull and it needs to be inline with the axis rod - if not, problems. The weight ratio to front of skull to the back of the skull is 65% to center of skull base hole. Basically, the center of gravity on the skull is about 1.5" from the center of the skull base hole toward the front of the skull. Here lays the problem - how to center the skull with out machining out new holes and it interferring with the jaw?


You don't. In my idea, the axis stays where it always has been. It's the point at which the servos move the axis that changes. Extending the rod into an L shape so that the servo rods are located forward towards the center of gravity would increase thier leverage thus removing the burden off the servos.
I hope this pic helps explain better.


----------



## Deathtouch

This is nothing. I made my car into a time machine. Beat that servo Boys! LOL


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## Dr Morbius

And it's all powered by a cigarette lighter! Impressive!


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## Deathtouch

No it is powered by the flux capactor.Where have you been man? LOL


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## Deathtouch

Ok, this isn't even my car. I guess I just needed a hug. You guys are hogging all the good props.


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## dionicia

Oh DT, don't feel bad. Just watch Mythbusters. They will give you lots of ideas. 

If not and you're bored, you can come down to Arizona and help me. I still need to build 6 of these skellies, a Axworthy rig, and retro-fit the tombstone poppers I made from last year so they will stop grinding the metal washers. 

I can offer you 80 degree weather.


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## Deathtouch

80 degs. I almost forgot what that feels like. It was 70 in Vegas but that was about it. I am there. Now where did I do with my time traveling car?


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## CaptnJackSparrow

Here is my BFF William Turner...

YouTube - 3-axis Pirate Skull Test


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## CaptnJackSparrow

Deathtouch said:


> This is nothing. I made my car into a time machine. Beat that servo Boys! LOL


Hmmm, just seems something's LEFT out... cant put my finger on it... just not quite RIGHT..


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## dionicia

Looks good so far Capt'n. I noticed it looked like it was having a little trouble. Is it catching on something?


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## CaptnJackSparrow

The rotate linkage rubs the nod linkage, but it's just a matter of bending the rod arm to clean the linkage..

Here's the first of 3(or 4) build videos, starting with a clean skull, cutting away the plastic for rod clearance.. the videos say it's a 2-axis build, but they are really going to be 3-axis.


YouTube - 3-axis skull How-To 1


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## dionicia

I like the plate you used to attach the rod to the plastic. So far, your video clears up a lot of gray areas of this. 

I am wondering, will a Dremel will work just as well as a drill press for cutting out the bottom of the skull?

Thank you for posting.


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## CaptnJackSparrow

Dremel... hmm... Well, if you have a dremel cutter blade or cutter drill bit to actually cut away the area just behind the nose.. because it's plastic, it will melt as you cut it. You might try using a hole cutter(door knob cutter) to cut away the extra. I used the sabre saw to cut a line straight to the front on either side of the rear nose area and tried to cut sideways but the shoe of the saw wouldnt let it go, so I used the drill cutter bit...


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## dionicia

That's a better idea. I have some hole cutters I use to make fog chillers.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

You'll have to run the drill at slow speed, I found the faster, the hotter, the goooier, so run the drill at slow speed..


----------



## dionicia

I learned that lesson with the plastic coolers I used to make fog chillers. Almost broke my nose. Serves me right for trying to overdo it on quality control.


----------



## jimmyzdc

OMG Captn thanks so much for the videos. They clear so much up. It's much easier to follow and understood whats going on. Keep the vids coming!

Jaime


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## CaptnJackSparrow

For you luv, anything... I've got two others to upload if YouTube would get the server back up, will be tomorrow I guess...


----------



## Lynn

A dremel is what I used to cut away mine too. YES slower speed, its MELTS !! hehe.


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## HomeyDaClown

dionicia said:


> I am wondering, will a Dremel will work just as well as a drill press for cutting out the bottom of the skull?


I use my dremel with a 3/4" sanding drum to widen the holes out. I draw the outline of hole with a sharpie and sand to the mark. It does it fairly quickly and leaves the holes smooth. Another easy way to do it is with a soldering gun and a piece of #14 bare copper wire as the tip, makes a nice plastic cutter.


----------



## HomeyDaClown

Captn, 
looks like you've not only beaten that VSA monster down, 
you actually convinced him to empower the first of your new crew.

Nice job man!


----------



## gym_ghost

Folks,
Recieved 200 1/4" poly blanks for the skull servo boards yesterday. As I got a ton of messages for the Lindberg, were going to run the whole 200 for this configuration. We should have them completed today. These servo boards are for the 425 and 625 servos, and include the cut out for the jaw servo. 

Some bad news - the supplier of our blanks increased the cost by $.32. Now that may not sould like a lot, but when you times it by 200 = $64 increase. Plus we got hit with some tooling costs by our supplier - almost an 8% increase. So prices will be increasing - but again, we will sell it to you at our cost. 

Funny, accounting firm we hired is tyring to explain to us about FIFO and LIFO with our inventory and general ledgers. I guess we must decided which one to go with for our accounting practices (whatever that means). I had no idea it was this hard to run a business... oh I miss the days of just tinkering out inthe garage building the props... 

Joel


----------



## buckaneerbabe

gym_ghost said:


> I had no idea it was this hard to run a business... oh I miss the days of just tinkering out inthe garage building the props...
> 
> Joel


Yea, but now you'll get paid to do that tinkering!!!! We still do it for nothing!


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

There's a couple schools of thots here.. one, while it's nice to make a couple out in the garage (but not in the AZ heat), it's really good to make something everyone think is the bees knees and wants! The other is while it's good to make something everyone thinks is the bees knees and wants, it doesnt leave much time to think up new stuff that'd be kewl to build for yourself..

G_G, you are doing the community, both here for us, and our communities(where we'll play these) a great service! A neighbor walks past the house each day to the mailbox and she has been stopping in to watch me building these skulls. They were astounded by the Pirates I had last year and says they cant wait to see what I'll be putting out forthis year..


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

B_B, ye be keepin a weather' eye out for ye 500th post! Yer close to th berried treazure luv, savvy?


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

As promised, Parts 1, 2, and 3 of my skull build.. I will be making a vid on how to use VSA, making a sequence actually move the jaw or head.. takes a lil doin, but it goes very quickly after you see how to set the number properly!

Part 1:
YouTube - 3-axis skull How-To 1

Part 2:
YouTube - 3-Axis Pirate skull How-To 2

and Part 3:
YouTube - 3-axis Lindberg Pirate Skull How-To, Part 3


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## Dark Hawke

Captain, 
I read a post a little while back comparing the Skultronix BoC and some other controller board. The BoC is quite a bit more money, but the article explained that the BoC comes with all cables (and the LED eyes) where the other controller board does not. Did you see this post and what is your thoughts. From what I understand, you are not using the BoC. I just don't want to make a mistake on this purchase
Thanks
Dark Hawke


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## gym_ghost

CaptJack,
Looking at your video, I am a bit confused why your cutting away the base skull hole? Where is your swivel point - inside the skeleton? You should try to get it as close to the skull base hole as possible. It will do wonders. And open your holes up on your bracket. If you move the bracket around with the skull plate mounted, you will find center of gravity faster (I hope that makes since). Basically, what we do after we mount the servo plate to the skull, with the rod axis attached, we loosen up the bracket and move it around, off the axis rod, until we find the center point of the skull. You will know you have found it when the skull seems balance. Tighten it up and run your routine. If you notice drag, go back and move the bracket opposite of the drag. It takes us about five minutes to balance one and once done, it does wonders with movement and reducing the servo sound. 

And the pause with the my name about the servo boards.... to much rum???? 


Great videos!!!

Joel


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## CaptnJackSparrow

Aye, too much rum indeed...I was thinking of about thirty things at that moment, some of them had skirts  and quickly had to sort them  (my head needed a faster processor, or more rum.. I mean ram...)

I'm using Bluckys right now (blew this years budget on skulls and servos) so the neck is small.. I know I will be having a difficut time mating the bottom of the rod to something other than blown plastic. I think I had decided on a tapped hole in a 5' piece of re-bar in the ground, to screw the bottom of the rod into...

I think I realized the rod hole is a lil too far aft to get the skull to balance, if I bottom out the rod end, up against the L-bracket, I can move the CG a lil more forward, as the skull, without any linkages to the servos, is a bit nose heavy. Adding a lil counter weight (some lead fishing sinkers) to the back of the servo plate would do the same thing( and prob be a lot easier. For centering the CG inside the skull I can move everything up or down the rod just a little to try to put more of the weight above or below the rod end attach point.. Still some adjustments needed, I hope I'm on the roight track..


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Dark Hawke said:


> Captain,
> I read a post a little while back comparing the Skultronix BoC and some other controller board. The BoC is quite a bit more money, but the article explained that the BoC comes with all cables (and the LED eyes) where the other controller board does not. Did you see this post and what is your thoughts. From what I understand, you are not using the BoC. I just don't want to make a mistake on this purchase
> Thanks
> Dark Hawke


Aye, the Lynxmotion SSC32 is without a power supply, LED pins or cables but.. it does not require a OpenDMX dongle($50 box) to make only 32 servos (to BoC's 16) work either. So if you go with the BoC, you will pay $149, plus another $50 for the DMX box to get ONE set of eyes. Granted DMX does make movement smoother, and it can be used for lighting, but it controls only 16 servos(4 skulls), to Lynx's 32(8 skulls), to add more is another $149 to Lynx's $40. BoC is not -specifically designed- for Hitec servos, Lynx is.. Would you add $159 on a power supply, cables for the Lynx? No. The additional slots on the Lynx can run relays, and control lights too, so you're still 16 servos or relays ahead of BoC.

To answer quickly, I dont use BoC, dont plan on using one as I dont have $$ to waste. Would I buy one? Only if it were $50-$100 cheaper.


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## Dr Morbius

Thanks for posting those vids, Capt! I got real good laugh at the end of the third one. I'll post vids too of that process for the Bucky fans. I have some good ideas I mean to apply from my own mech and balancing techniques...BTW, my mech used 2 311's in it and it worked fine!! That shows how a good balance can really save on servo use.


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## dionicia

Me, I can't wait until GG gives a green light to buy the kits. 

I am a visual person and work better when I see what I need. Then I don't fret about buying more locally if I decide to increase my army.


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## CaptnJackSparrow

....if I decide to increase my army.....

Ooeeooo yeeeooooo
Ooeeooo yeeoooooo
(from Wizard of Oz)


----------



## MrOCT31

Do we PM you Gym Ghost if we want to get in on a purchase for a couple of the plates for the Lindberg skulls?


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Here a number of pix abt the servo rod-ends, putting them together and mounting them on the servo.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

A couple more..


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## dionicia

gym_ghost said:


> Folks,
> Recieved 200 1/4" poly blanks for the skull servo boards yesterday. As I got a ton of messages for the Lindberg, were going to run the whole 200 for this configuration. We should have them completed today. These servo boards are for the 425 and 625 servos, and include the cut out for the jaw servo.
> 
> Some bad news - the supplier of our blanks increased the cost by $.32. Now that may not sould like a lot, but when you times it by 200 = $64 increase. Plus we got hit with some tooling costs by our supplier - almost an 8% increase. So prices will be increasing - but again, we will sell it to you at our cost.
> 
> Funny, accounting firm we hired is tyring to explain to us about FIFO and LIFO with our inventory and general ledgers. I guess we must decided which one to go with for our accounting practices (whatever that means). I had no idea it was this hard to run a business... oh I miss the days of just tinkering out inthe garage building the props...
> 
> Joel


I still want 6 of em. Compared to the cost of screwing up and having to start over, this is cheap.


----------



## Dark Hawke

Captn:
Thanks for the info on the controller boards
I have not yet purchased the BoC and you now you have me thinking about this again.
Ok, I go with the SCC32 controller board, I assume that you are using VSA for software.
i'm e-mailing Lynxmotion now to ask them what else i need to control 4 servo's
Power supply, cables, and anything else they can think of
Thanks again


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Hey Darke,

Everyone here that started this thread and built their skulls had used the Lynx SSC32. No one used the BoC, primarily because it was not out yet. If it had been out a year ago, it still wouldve been pased up as its a $200 outlay to use it. The BoC is $150, then you need a $50 DMX dongle to make it work. Thats the price of two complete skulls...

I -really- recommend reading thru this whole thread if you havent yet. It answers a lot abt the build, using VSA, power supply for the board and servos and cables to use. I know its a lot to go thru, but it sheds a lot of light on why we all use what we use.

In a nut shell.. You will need:

Lynx SSC-32 controller,
VSA from BrookshireSoftware.com
Power supply capable of running all the servos 
....(figure they will all run at the same time), abt 1/2 to 3/4 amp for board & servos.
Serial cable between computer and Lynx(abt 75' max),
Cat5 cable from Lynx to skulls(abt 50-75').

I'm going to be making a vid for YouTube how to use VSA. It isnt difficult, just time-consuming..

Capt Jack


----------



## Scary Jerry

Jerry here... I'm sure if you want to purchase a volume of boc boards we can strike a deal. The end product will be safer for the servos and you'll simplify the entire project.

916 600-2295


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## thedudedrummer

Hey Captain! Dont forget Im using the parallax board instead for mine!  But Im doing a joint venture with the SSC as well .


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## Dr Morbius

If you guys want to save those servos, here is the link for the PWM relay..it hooks up to your servo controller board (any kind) just like a servo. Put a command at the end of your routine in VSA to turn the power off to your servos.
http://www.lynxmotion.com/Product.aspx?productID=561&CategoryID=106


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## CaptnJackSparrow

Avast ye barnickled bildge rat(DD), where in Davy Jones locker has ye been? Ye tell me ye hasnt traded over to ye Lynx board yet? Cods-wallops man! Tis easy to get, tis easy to stow, tis easy to wire and easy to go(run). I be plannin on some bilious relays to run me lights along with the machines to make me crew sing! I be start makin me video fer that blastered VSA, for if i do not, to the depths with me, to Davy Jones I go see...

Doctor, doctor, gimme the news, I gotta bad case of servo blues.. but this thing be good to power down the infernal machines to make me boys sleep.


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## Dr Morbius

I have a Parallax, but the Lynx board is a better value for sure. I'm getting one as well...Speaking of relays, I saw a member use the lynxmotion board to control the kit74's..or a board like it. Anyone know how that's done? Or has anyone used a servo board for controlling relays othe than using the PWM I linked to?


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## Phoenix

Dr Morbius said:


> If you guys want to save those servos, here is the link for the PWM relay..it hooks up to your servo controller board (any kind) just like a servo. Put a command at the end of your routine in VSA to turn the power off to your servos.
> http://www.lynxmotion.com/Product.aspx?productID=561&CategoryID=106


Actually it wont protect your servos.........much.

SkullTroniX Skulls used to contain one of these, yet Jerry still spent half his life replacing burnt out servos.

That's a $25 part and its functionality is already included on the BoC, and will only save servo burnouts from accidentally leaving the skull powered up and will only protect the skull whilst VSA is active... if the computer crashes, goes to sleep, you botch the VSA routine, turn on the power to the skull before the computer is active then your servos are toast!


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## Dr Morbius

I'm confused...if it doesn't protect your servos..much, then why is it included in the BoC?


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## Phoenix

Because BoCs servo protection strategy is multi layered, you get 

the power off command as per the PWM relay
null communication auto power off
...
and most importantly, you program the limits of motion onto the board, the biggest cause of servo burnout is crashing the limits of motion, with a BoC this becomes impossible, once set-up the board is not capable of sending a signal that will cause your servo to hit anything solid.


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## Dr Morbius

Ahhh, I see. Thank you for the clarification...However, just one more question, pardon me if I come off as anti BoC..because I'm not, I'm just curious. And I know these are hard questions, and I appreciate your patience...anyway, I know you can program the limits of motion in VSA, so wouldn't that be a redundant function?


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## Phoenix

you would think......

The limits in VSA are not a protection device they are a programming aid.....yes they may help you not crash the limits, but only when VSA is running and setup with the correct routine.... when VSA is not running or you are using a different control software or just starting your VSA routine or accidentally load the wrong routine for that prop....

With BoC the protection becomes part of the Prop, and there is absolutely no way (other than reprogramming the board) you can violate the props limits.... and believe me during the development and demonstration of Magic Motion, I've tried, VERY hard, and not always intentionally.


----------



## Dark Hawke

Does anyone have a recomended supplier for cat 5 cable and plugs?
I'm probably going to use this to go from my controller board to the servo's
There is also Cat5e and Cat6.
Any opinions/suggestions on what to use?
thanks!


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Dark, if I remember I got a 50' roll of Cat5 at HomeDepot for $20.. If ou have a Frys Electronics store they had the same... they also carry Cat5e, better shielding, but lil more $$...

I had used Cat5 sockets to go on the controller box, to be able to use ready-made runs of Cat5 cables, but decided (because 10 sockets are $30) to wire the end of the servo plugs to one end of roll of Cat5 and solder the other end right to the servo wires..


----------



## malibuman

Dark Hawke said:


> Does anyone have a recomended supplier for cat 5 cable and plugs?
> I'm probably going to use this to go from my controller board to the servo's
> There is also Cat5e and Cat6.
> Any opinions/suggestions on what to use?
> thanks!


Try www.monoprice.com. They are cheap with fast shipping. I have ordered from them many times.


----------



## MonkeyBasic

malibuman said:


> Try www.monoprice.com. They are cheap with fast shipping. I have ordered from them many times.


I second monoprice.com, I order the majority of my cabling from them. From A/V to home networking, they are great!


----------



## Scary Jerry

Yo pirates,

Just clearing out the bilge and found some Parallax boards. First come first served. $22 each plus shipping. Paypal $26 to [email protected] If I run out I'll decline the payment.

Perhaps we should do a group discount for the forum on the BOC board. Buy it without the cables, power supply and leds. $65. If I get at least 20 orders then it's a deal. Configuration program is $20 (I have to pay the programmer). 

Perhaps enough of these skulls will become available to justify us offering our routines for them!

Best regards to all

Jerry Jewell
SkullTroniX
916 600-2295


----------



## Dr Morbius

That's a generous offer, SJ! I have a question..(yes, I'm full of them, sorry), Can you use the BoC's for more than one prop? Or does it have to be dedicated to just one in order to configure the servo settings?


----------



## Phoenix

Dr Morbius said:


> That's a generous offer, SJ! I have a question..(yes, I'm full of them, sorry), Can you use the BoC's for more than one prop? Or does it have to be dedicated to just one in order to configure the servo settings?



Do you mean at the same time?, i.e. run two skulls off it using cables, the answer is yes, though if you want to give both skull colour changing eyes then you will have to get a little creative.

If you mean reuse the board and move it between props, then again the answer is yes, you configure the BoC using our PC software, and can save the configuration file on the PC.

Configuration is very easy, you can even configure it on the fly after the prop is finished and buried somewhere in the middle of your hardware, its done via the DMX connection.

When configuring you have the choice to send the values to the board as temporary test values (and not overwrite your previous values) or save them on the board such that they are not lost when the board is powered down.


----------



## Phoenix

Scary Jerry said:


> Perhaps enough of these skulls will become available to justify us offering our routines for them!


hm..... thats an interesting thought Jerry, couple of technical problems, but it brings up another feature of the BoC that I never thought about before.......

Sorry guys this explanation may get complex..... in short with other servo boards you cant easily share routines, but BoC makes this VERY easy....

What would normally make this suggestion unfeasible is that if each and every one of you build a skull based upon this design, its unlikely that each and every skull will have the same limits of motion, this means that a VSA routine for skull A will need a lot of work to function on skull B.

...however, BoC has something called '8 bit mode', the default mode of BoC will receive a 16 bit signal and only send values to the servo that are between the programmed limits of motion.. it exactly the same as the Parallax board in many respect and was originally designed this way to be compatible with old Parallax routines.

8 bit mode is different, in 8 bit mode you set the limits of motion, and then the 8 bit signal (0-255) will get scaled between the limits, in VSA all axes will have limits of 0-255, but where with the mini SSC 0=0 degrees and 255 = 180 degrees, on the BoC 0= minimum limit and 255=maximum limit.

This feature will mean that BoC users can share routines, and even if their skulls have significantly different limits, the routines will still work flawlessly becasue the BoC is handling the limits for you.


----------



## HomeyDaClown

Getting way off topic again..... 

What happened to HalloweenBob's design? 

Seems to me it works great just the way it is and was inexpensive and easy to build. 

This thread is a tribute to his ingenuity....lets not spoil it
If you have an alternate major design change....you should start your own thread


----------



## dionicia

I can't believe I am saying this but NTIS is right. It might be a good idea to create a separate thread explaining how the BoC works and compares to similar items. For the purchase, a group buy thread would be good. 

All this technical stuff is making my head hurt. I was happy with just trying to get a square peg in a round hole.


----------



## gym_ghost

Okay folks this is the deal, (over 32 private messages), 
I am running inventory to build two hundred 3 axis skulls. This inventory build up includes all hardware to include rod ends and ball joints, axis rod bracker, axis rod, 4" of threaded rod, and the servo plate. My first obligation is to fulifill those who got rejected material back in Feb. After that, I will be selling the kits. Presently, we just finished machining the servo plates and bracket. I am currently running the axis rod and this match of bolts we received are really being a pain in the *(&)(. In fact, I am thinking about sending them out to have the 10-24 threads grind/form. I am ordering all the rod ends to include those for the servos and threaded rod. Basically, all you will need to supply is the skull and servos. 

I am targeting to have these available May 1, 2008. At that time, I will be taking orders.

Thanks
Joel / Gym_ghost


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

'twould be good, if it werked as said Lynx, in number, ease and cost.. Bu' as HalloweenBob uses th' Lynx, an' EvilBob uses th' Lynx, an' Captn Jack uses the Lynx, a consensus thar seems ta be on which be better, in use an' cost. If the BoC and Lynx, apples ta apples, an' oranges ta oranges.. comparision thar be, Lynx comes out ahead still by $100... two BoC's you be needin' ta do what Lynx does with one.

Tha's why thar be no group buy for BoC.. fer us it be untried an' untested..


----------



## buckaneerbabe

Scary Jerry said:


> Yo pirates,
> 
> Just clearing out the bilge and found some Parallax boards. First come first served. $22 each plus shipping. Paypal $26 to [email protected] If I run out I'll decline the payment.
> 
> Perhaps we should do a group discount for the forum on the BOC board. Buy it without the cables, power supply and leds. $65. If I get at least 20 orders then it's a deal. Configuration program is $20 (I have to pay the programmer).
> 
> Perhaps enough of these skulls will become available to justify us offering our routines for them!
> 
> Best regards to all
> 
> Jerry Jewell
> SkullTroniX
> 916 600-2295





I for one would be thrilled to buy one of your Boc's. So if they are others who see the value of saving all your hard work and not burning up your servos speak up cause I do think this is a great value. If not I'll still be getting one.


----------



## dionicia

gym_ghost said:


> Okay folks this is the deal, (over 32 private messages),
> I am running inventory to build two hundred 3 axis skulls. This inventory build up includes all hardware to include rod ends and ball joints, axis rod bracker, axis rod, 4" of threaded rod, and the servo plate. My first obligation is to fulifill those who got rejected material back in Feb. After that, I will be selling the kits. Presently, we just finished machining the servo plates and bracket. I am currently running the axis rod and this match of bolts we received are really being a pain in the *(&)(. In fact, I am thinking about sending them out to have the 10-24 threads grind/form. I am ordering all the rod ends to include those for the servos and threaded rod. Basically, all you will need to supply is the skull and servos.
> 
> I am targeting to have these available May 1, 2008. At that time, I will be taking orders.
> 
> Thanks
> Joel / Gym_ghost


We only PM you because we care (and we are really eager).


----------



## indianaholmes

> Originally Posted by Scary Jerry
> Perhaps enough of these skulls will become available to justify us offering our routines for them!


I am interested in knowing what this means. Are you offering the skulltronix routines that you have already created? If so, I would like to hear more. I think your product is fantastic. I am somewhat software/hardware challenged and don't really understand why the BOC is so much better than the MiniSCC II or the Lynx. I used the Mini last year and had no problems, but I struggled finding an adequate routine for my two skulls. Once I found "Whos on First" by Ambrosio, it was the best I could do on short notice. Everyone was requesting voiceovers from various members so I didn't feel right asking for someones time without any compensation. Tell us more about what this offer means, to us that want to explore 3-axis possibilities. I would spend extra dollars for something that I can't create on my own.


----------



## Scary Jerry

Well the hope was to populate the 200 skulls with bocs, which would make it worthwhile to release our routines for use on them. But there seems to be some who are married to the lynx boards for whatever reason. And to call our board "untested" is a bit laughable. 

I guess I'll just stay out of this thread.

Jerry


----------



## MonkeyBasic

Phoenix_UK said:


> hm..... thats an interesting thought Jerry, couple of technical problems, but it brings up another feature of the BoC that I never thought about before.......
> 
> Sorry guys this explanation may get complex..... in short with other servo boards you cant easily share routines, but BoC makes this VERY easy....
> 
> What would normally make this suggestion unfeasible is that if each and every one of you build a skull based upon this design, its unlikely that each and every skull will have the same limits of motion, this means that a VSA routine for skull A will need a lot of work to function on skull B.
> 
> ...however, BoC has something called '8 bit mode', the default mode of BoC will receive a 16 bit signal and only send values to the servo that are between the programmed limits of motion.. it exactly the same as the Parallax board in many respect and was originally designed this way to be compatible with old Parallax routines.
> 
> 8 bit mode is different, in 8 bit mode you set the limits of motion, and then the 8 bit signal (0-255) will get scaled between the limits, in VSA all axes will have limits of 0-255, but where with the mini SSC 0=0 degrees and 255 = 180 degrees, on the BoC 0= minimum limit and 255=maximum limit.
> 
> This feature will mean that BoC users can share routines, and even if their skulls have significantly different limits, the routines will still work flawlessly becasue the BoC is handling the limits for you.


Phoenix makes a good point. I'm a software developer and I am about 98% sure that I can make an application that will convert VSA output files to allow you to change a routine EASILY from one person's servo preferences to yours... Would any of you find this useful? I will post a new Thread regarding this. (There isn't already something out there, is there?)


----------



## dionicia

New thread time. Programming, boards, cables, servos thread...Oh my!


----------



## Phoenix

nbviper said:


> Phoenix makes a good point. I'm a software developer and I am about 98% sure that I can make an application that will convert VSA output files to allow you to change a routine EASILY from one person's servo preferences to yours... Would any of you find this useful? I will post a new Thread regarding this. (There isn't already something out there, is there?)


I've got a program that can do this, and I did offer in the past to do routine conversion for folks, but there was no interest


----------



## MonkeyBasic

Were you charging for your software?

As far as usage, I guess it all depends if we want to start trading routines. I'm going to start developing and we'll see what happens. I will do this for free.


----------



## Phoenix

Truth is the software is not really past a basic development/prototype stage, in its current condition I couldn't even give it away, and I've no the time to polish it up.

I was actually offering to do the routine conversion (free)

I've used some of its functionality in Magic Motion, and I've another product on the drawing board that will incorporate more of its functionality, but there are no plans of creating a publically available conversion program


----------



## gym_ghost

WOW... min order for 2-56 and 4-40 steel ball joint - 5,000. Min order for plastic ball cups for 2-56 and 4-40, 5,000. 

Total cost... well, ...

I ordered them today and they will be here at the shop by May 6, 2008. 

Joel


----------



## MonkeyBasic

Phoenix_UK said:


> Truth is the software is not really past a basic development/prototype stage, in its current condition I couldn't even give it away, and I've no the time to polish it up.
> 
> I was actually offering to do the routine conversion (free)
> 
> I've used some of its functionality in Magic Motion, and I've another product on the drawing board that will incorporate more of its functionality, but there are no plans of creating a publically available conversion program


Very cool. Would you be willing to share any insight or knowledge (or even source)? May cut down in dev time.
Thanks!


----------



## dionicia

gym_ghost said:


> WOW... min order for 2-56 and 4-40 steel ball joint - 5,000. Min order for plastic ball cups for 2-56 and 4-40, 5,000.
> 
> Total cost... well, ...
> 
> I ordered them today and they will be here at the shop by May 6, 2008.
> 
> Joel


Jeez Joel, what are you building? Robotech or are you a hip doctor in you're spare time?


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

5000???? OMG!! I mean... oh bugger!!! Well, thats slightly less than completely unhelpful....


----------



## naberhoodhaunts

Does anyone have a parts list for the 3 axis skull?


----------



## dionicia

Check this thread http://halloweenforum.com/showthread.php?p=438476#post438476

Courtesy of the Capt'n.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

(whisperin')

_I see servos..._ 

Where Jack, where?​ 
_Everywhere!!!!_​ 
_Oll hands, this is the Captain!! Wondeous news everybo-dy! Servos were picked up, packaged and mailed out today, you will oll remember that this is the day you olmost caught Captain Jack Sparrow (in a fib)... I said that they'd be mailed to-day, and I, bein a pirate, am a man of me word... cept when it comes to rum, an' wenches!_


----------



## naberhoodhaunts

Thanks D That helped alot. found what i needed.


----------



## Abunai

Alright. Here is my first of 4 three axis skulls. 
Thanks to HalloweenBob for the design, RBC and CptJack for the group buys and the how-to videos. 

It's a short clip, but you get the idea.








[/URL][/IMG]


----------



## dionicia

I love it. Great job. What did your wife say about you clamping it to the kitchen table?


----------



## Garage-of-Evil

She said "at least he's using the high chair tray as a parts holder"...

The kidless are so clueless sometimes.


----------



## Abunai

dionicia said:


> I love it. Great job. What did your wife say about you clamping it to the kitchen table?


Heh heh. I'm blessed with a wife who is as crazy about Halloween as I am. She was out in the garage working on the Dangling Crank Spider as I was finishing this up.


----------



## RookieSpooker

Your dog didn't look too thrilled, but I think it's awesome.


----------



## dionicia

You know the only part of this process I haven't seen anyone do is programming VSA to the skull. 

Anyone game? I would but I don't even have the skulls (yet).


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

'ello luv, I will be trying to make a tut on VSA an' makin a thread fer it this week. It'll be using the DeadMenTellNoTales.mp3 so it be goin fas' an easy-like...


----------



## dionicia

Sweet! I can't wait to order the skulls from Blinky.


----------



## wicc_ed

OK I realize I should wait for the new thread, but I am currious on how people are interfacing with VSA? Are you using the mouse, or are you letting the software analyze it, and then removing the unwanted parts, or are you using a joystick to record the motions?


----------



## Abunai

wicc_ed said:


> OK I realize I should wait for the new thread, but I am currious on how people are interfacing with VSA? Are you using the mouse, or are you letting the software analyze it, and then removing the unwanted parts, or are you using a joystick to record the motions?


I'm very new to VSA. I define the events for each device (servo) one at a time on the VSA screen. 

If there exists an easier way to do it (some sort of motion capture) I hope someone will let me know. If not, I was planning on writing some code specific to the 3-axis skull movement for creating VSA routines. 

A lot of people are doing these this year, and it looks like the majority of time will be spent developing the VSA routines.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

If you use EvilBobs joystick capture file (parlay.zip) it'll capture.. cant remember if it's 2-axis or 3.. movements for the head, then make the jaw event yourself. I spent abt 4 hours Saturday doing a 4-part harmony 15 Men On A Dead Mans Chest, was easy as just the first singers part had to be made, the harmony guys was just copied off the chorus of the first guy and pasted in place for the other 3 singers.

I'm also going to post links so anyone can download the DeadMenTellNoTales.vsa and 15MenOnADeadMansChest.vsa files. The limits are set small.. from abt 900 to 1800, tho they can be translated to any number..


----------



## dionicia

Next best seller for Home Haunters. The 3-Axis Skulls for Dummies by CaptnJackSparrow.

Hint, HINT, H I N T!!!!!!


----------



## wicc_ed

2 Axis possibly 3 Axis at once? Ok Jack where do we find the Parley.zip? Thanks


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

I've got it on one of my servers.. here:  parlay.zip


----------



## Dr Morbius

Parlay is a 2 axis mouse capture program, with an added capture for jaw using the mouse wheel. You COULD use the mouse wheel for the third axis, then recapture the jaw using the mouse on any axis and then import it to VSA. I'm still interested in using this program for a hacked mouse hand puppet capture device, where instead of a mouse you use a puppet like contraption made from a hacked mouse that slips over your hand. I think it would be more intuative that way to capture motion.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

I have this naggin notion of using some type of mouse wheel, attached to a jaw strap(no, not bra.. jaw...), fitted to yer head, using that to capture jaw movements as you sing to the song you want to use... similar to what the good Dr. wants to do with his hand puppet.. That appeal to... anyone? ..anyone? ...Bueller? 

What i'm thinkin is, ..take a riding, bike, construction... helmet.. with elastic straps. fit a slider potentiometer or something like it, to the strap, run the wirin into the serial port, start Parlay to capture the movement.. start the music, sing your song, Parlay captures, then imports it into VSA.. yeah, yeah.. it's just like the motion capture system ScaryTerry made, but this is not camera/motion based. far simplier..


----------



## wicc_ed

Now that would look just ridiculous!... you could mount it to a PC headset with a boom mic (might have to zip strip a stiffer wire to the boom to support the POT - that would have a spring return) and another wire bent in the shape of an L with the bottom of the L under your chin. Then wire this into an old mouse.

I wonder if this is this what the original imagineers went through?


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

I was thinkin the normal strap would be better holdin in on the head, but a PC headset might work.. wouldnt use the mike part, as your using the already supplied audio file, besides, the mike would pick up the strap, or pot movement noise.. And that is what Disney did. I have a video of how the origianal(DL PoTC) was built and it shows a guy wearing a helmet, pots on the side to move the pirate jaws, captured into their main frames.. I'll post it on my YouTube or Hauntspace site.. it's great to watch.. oh check out my Hauntspace, PoTC video. It's Johnny Depp, seein hisself as an animatronic pirate.. 2:15 into it.. FUNNY!


----------



## wicc_ed

Yeah I think I have seen the clip of johnny depp looking at the Jack in the barrel... but it may be different then the one you have... which my browswer wont open.

As for the mic.. I was thinking that using it just for the frame work, not as a mic.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

I think that the PC mike frame, bein just slipped on, would move too much, nothing to actually anchor it to your head, the chin 'bar' would move the headset, not the pot lead... but tha's jus me...


----------



## Phoenix

Ill give you this for nothing guys.... forget trying jaw capture. 

I've been a LONG way down that road, and have even created a system that can do jaw capture, and its included in Magic Motion, and it works, and there is a reason why I reverted to sound to motion.

The problem with jaw capture is counter-intuitive, its only after you spend several months studying the issue that you fully understand it, and the shock revelation is that we don't use our jaws for talking as much as we may think.

When we speak the Jaw motion only really changes the shape of the mouth cavity, which gives the sound resonance, and allows the tongue to move, you can try this yourself by clenching your front teeth and try talking.... you should find that you can talk in quite an understandable fashion.... and you identify that the real talking is done with the lips.

Now, when it comes to skulls you are really just trying to create an illusion, there is no tongue or lips, just jaw motion, however to create a realistic illusion you use the jaw to suggest that its making the sounds, and often need to exaggerate the motion get it right and the viewers brain will make the connection between sound and motion, and ignore the inconsistencies.

That's not to say that its not possible, but you find that trying to speak with definite jaw motion is like patting your head and rubbing your belly, and then you add the challenge of trying this with a character voice and.... well I gave up.

BTW Magic Motion can infact be set up to capture lip motion rather than Jaw motion... gives a much better effect than Jaw motion, but still inadequate.


----------



## wicc_ed

Talk in character? Im using pre-recorded material, so I would just be mouthing the words... and since Im using both hands to record the 3 axises at the same time with a control pad I thought that controlling jaw movement with my jaw vs my toes would be quicker, not to mention easier to duplicate.


----------



## Phoenix

I played with that route too, requires way more memory than I have at my personal disposal, not only do you need remember the script, which admittedly you can read, but also every enhanced intonation and pause.


----------



## wicc_ed

OK so what is the difference in doing it this way verses the standard way of programming with VSA?
And for what its worth... If I made a 100k a year I would buy all of your products. But since I make less then 1/3 of that I have to resort to building my own, and doing what I can. And Im sure that is true with most of the people here on the forum.


----------



## Abunai

Dr Morbius said:


> Parlay is a 2 axis mouse capture program, with an added capture for jaw using the mouse wheel. You COULD use the mouse wheel for the third axis, then recapture the jaw using the mouse on any axis and then import it to VSA. I'm still interested in using this program for a hacked mouse hand puppet capture device, where instead of a mouse you use a puppet like contraption made from a hacked mouse that slips over your hand. I think it would be more intuative that way to capture motion.


Well, I downloaded and tried out Parlay, from CptnJack's provided link. It appears to be three axis (x, y, and z) with an additional M axis, which I will assume means "mouth."

It gives you four different servo controller boards to choose from, but then gives you constant warnings that only the mini ssc is supported. You cannot turn on the servos if you choose anything else, and the mini ssc option won't drive my parallax board. 

There is no help file provided in the zip archive, and no help available from within the program. 

I tried searching the Internet for more information with no luck. 
I never did figure out how to adjust the M axis. 

Any suggestions?

I had the idea of trying to use VSA's wave motion analysis function with an audio file that I created of ONLY the voice portion of my VSA project file. I was hoping to be able to create events for jaw motion in a way similar to a color organ. I couldn't find the right combination of settings in VSA to get that to work.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

The program was written by EvilBob. He's got the skinny on the in's n' out's and how to make it work. Tha' be why ye not be findin' any help from th' internet...


----------



## Evil Bob

Oops. I probably should have been keeping up with this thread.


----------



## Evil Bob

The mouse wheel controls the z-axis when in mouse mode. The z-axis is controlled by the twist axis of the joystick when in joystick mode. the M-axis (Mouth) is controlled by a mic.



Dr Morbius said:


> Parlay is a 2 axis mouse capture program, with an added capture for jaw using the mouse wheel. You COULD use the mouse wheel for the third axis, then recapture the jaw using the mouse on any axis and then import it to VSA. I'm still interested in using this program for a hacked mouse hand puppet capture device, where instead of a mouse you use a puppet like contraption made from a hacked mouse that slips over your hand. I think it would be more intuative that way to capture motion.


----------



## dionicia

You created a monster Evilbob. 

Way to go!


----------



## Dr Morbius

evilbob said:


> The mouse wheel controls the z-axis when in mouse mode. The z-axis is controlled by the twist axis of the joystick when in joystick mode. the M-axis (Mouth) is controlled by a mic.


I stand corrected, thanks for the clarification..I was gonna use the wheel for the jaw, and completely forgot about the mic input. Yea, it's a terrific piece of software! I wonder why you named it "Parlay"? Just curious, I'm funny that way. It's a nice name, just wondering how you came up with it.


----------



## Evil Bob

The full name of it is Parlay, Servo Play which is a bastardization of parler s'il vous plait which means to speak please. Throw in the pun on servos and there you go. But mostly I used that because I wrote it for my pirate band, and Pirates of the Caribbean says Parlay a lot.


----------



## keepsmiling

Hello
I'v got a question about the Lynx ssc32 controler. Do you have to keep the computer attached to it during the show or do you program it and take the computer with you? If so, how long a program will it hold?
Thanks


----------



## Abunai

keepsmiling said:


> Hello
> I'v got a question about the Lynx ssc32 controler. Do you have to keep the computer attached to it during the show or do you program it and take the computer with you? If so, how long a program will it hold?
> Thanks


It remains attached to the computer. It translates messages coming from the computer into signals that move the servos.

There are other boards that will store a program to move servos but I don't know how long the program can be. Look for boards like the "Prop-1."


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

You can run VSA into the SSC-32 from any computer that has a serial port, so if you've got an old Pentium II desktop or laptop that's got serial ports on it, you have a platform to run VSA and plug the controller into.

I got an email from the Lynx guys for a way to make _your _setup(servos, ports, speed, etc), the default in which VSA starts up.

Open VSA,
Click on Tools(menu bar),
Settings,
Uncheck all but the number of servos you have.. 4 servos, uncheck all but the first 4 boxes.. 8 servos, uncheck all but the first 8 boxes, etc.. (yeah, there are 64 boxes, takes a lil time) then..

If you are using Hitec 425BB's, 
double-click on the servo name(prob miniSSC), a pull down menu opens, 
scroll down and click on the SSC32 Servo for EACH of your servos..
then click Port Settings tab, choose the port you are using(prob COM 1), double-click Rate number, set it to the setting your board is jumpered to, (should be 115K). Then click on the lil hammer, bottom left corner, choose Save Defaults.

Now each time you make a new routine, your servos, port and speed, will be already there.


----------



## perdidoman

The kits sound good, just what I will need. Looking forward to the release.
Got my skull and servos at the ready... : )
Thanks for the info.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

I be back in port today, 'got liberty fer these next three days. I'll be makin' a tut, "How to make routines with VSA". It'll be an easy one, with a speakin' file: "Dead Men Tell No Tales", an' another one usin' a song file, somethin' lil mor complex... I will also attempt to pu' in usin' a joystick for head mo'ements, unless some othe' scallywag 'as olready got Parlay workin'...

Capt Jack


----------



## gym_ghost

Okay folks,
Here is the price lists for the components. I will start to take orders for parts and such April 28, 2008. I will ship out twice a week - Wednesday and Friday. Shipping will be what UPS or USPS charges. I want to stress, these prices reflect our costs. We are not making any profits. These prices are only good until May 15, 2008.

I will accept paypal or mail payment. If you have over 25 posts and been a member of this board for over six months, I will trust you will send payment in 15 days. 

I am currently working on the directions on how these components fit and how to adjust. We will not provide tech support with programming or other. Just how to install the components and adjust them to work with our components. If you use them on a component that is not ours, we will not be able to help you. All of these components have been tested on over thirty 3-axis skulls and have over 400 hours of testing with very favorable results. 

If you plan to order, please send order to "sales AT graveyardmadness DOT com". Do not send order through the PM for this forum. This email address will be up and running April 25, 2008. If you email be before, it will bounce back. 

Item	Qty	Description Cost 
34-002	1	Servo plate poly ¼" 425/625, Bucky	$21.25	
35-002	1	Servo plate poly ¼" 425/625, Lindberg	$21.25	
34-005	1	Axis rod, w/spacer 3.75" $15.00	
34-006	1	Bracket, adj. for axis rod $20.05	
34-008	1	Nut 10-24 $0.05	
34-009	1	Nut Lock, 10-24 $0.15	
34-010	1	Screw, Cap 4-40 with nylon patch	$0.40	
34-011	1	Pivot servo arm 18gauge / not drilled	$4.25	
34-018	1	Rod end, 3/16-10-32 $4.50	
34-019	1	10-32 Lock Washer $0.05	
34-020	2	Nut, 10-32 $0.10	

OR ORDER THE KIT, minus the skull, servos, rod ends, caps, wiring, controller, thread rod, and clevis. 

35-000B 1	Lindberg Kit, no servo rod ends, caps or rods	$60.00	**
34-000B 1	Bucky Kit, no servo rod ends, caps or rods	$60.00	**

**You will need to supply: skull, servos, servo rod ends and caps, threaded rod, and wiring. 
For those individual waiting for components on the rejected parts or rejected plates, they will be mailed out Monday, April 28. 

Thanks,
Joel


----------



## dionicia

Just one question. Are the kits at the bottom of the list separate from the other stuff or do we add them to the rest?

Sorry to sound silly but with making 6 lindbergs, I want to make sure I get only what I need. 

Thank you.


----------



## gym_ghost

Sorry for the confusion.... the kit consist of all the parts list above. It saves you around $7. 

I separated the parts as single items for I have received many requests just for plates, or rod, etc...

Thanks
Joel


----------



## dionicia

So If I am reading this correctly, we will have to also get the servo rod ends and caps, threaded rod, and wiring if we get the kits?

I just want to make sure I get everything I need so I can stop getting strange looks at the hardware store for being there so much.


----------



## gym_ghost

Yes, you will need to purchase the following: servos, skulls, the threaded rod ends for the 4-40 and 2-56 rod ends and caps, and thread rod (either 2-56 or 4-40). We will supply you with the 10-32 rod end needed for the axis rod. 

And yes, we're selling to all on this board. New members will have to pay in full prior to any shipping. Those with the messages and being a member for awhile, we will ship with the understanding payment to be made in 15 days.

I hope this helps?

Joel


----------



## dionicia

I hate to sound silly but what is the difference between 2-56 and 4-40? Is one better than the other? Does one work better with Lindbergs as opposed to the other? 

I'm still working on which came first the chicken or the egg. Broken a dozen eggs trying to figure that out and the chicken....can you say KFC?


----------



## mikeythemars

Abunai said:


> There are other boards that will store a program to move servos but I don't know how long the program can be. Look for boards like the "Prop-1."


One of those options (if you don't want to deal with sending programming to a separate board; ergo, want a true "stand alone" setup) is Bluepoint Engineering. Somewhat pricey stuff, but well made, quite flexible (some of their boards can programmed to control up to 8 servos as well as sound, pneumatics, etc. for up to five minutes) and are simple to use.


----------



## Tonguesandwich

The Kits sound like a good idea.... saves some leg work. I am good for 6 of the Lin Skull kits. What is going to be the turn around once you get it all together?


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

For those trying to decipher our gibberish... 2-56 and 4-40 are screw/thread sizes of the links we're using for this build.. 2-56 is #2 screw, 56 threads per inch... 4-40 is #4 screw, 40 threads per inch.. which to use is entirely a matter of preference, and what screw size you are using for the top screw in the rod. You can mix sizes.. a 2-56 rod on one end, 4-40 on the other. Th only thing you have to coordinate is the 2-56 rod end (called *clevis* by RC'ers, pronounced cle-vis.. it's been called cle-veyes too) comes in two flavors.. threaded for just a 2-56 rod, or threaded for a 4-40 rod. Now if that sounds confusing.. it's just this: the hole in the swivel is for the "2", but the rod that crews into the end of it can be a 4-40 thread, that way you can mix rod ends..


----------



## gym_ghost

Yeah, what CaptnJackSparrow said... the axis rod we machined uses a 4-40 cap screw. So you will need to purchase the clevis end for this. This attaches to the servo via a threaded rod to a ball joint with cap. 4-40 is easier to use, but you will lose about 15% of axis movement - its bigger. The 2-56 is smaller and can possible break with abuse. We use the 4-40 all around. This is up to the end user. 

Regarding inventory - we have enough inventory to build 125 Lindberg Skulls and 150 Bucky skulls. So once you place your order, and depending on what day of the week, we will will be shipping Wed and Friday. 

Joel


----------



## MrOCT31

Where/how are we placing orders?


----------



## gym_ghost

I will start taking orders April 28, 2008. You can email me at sales AT graveyardmadness DOT com . This email address wont be up until April 25, 2008. Just let me know what you want and how many on the emila and I will email you back confirmation and payment information. Why the 28th - I will be in the shop during the evening hours 2:30PM to 9PM / M-F) working on these orders and some other props for some others on this board. 

Joel


----------



## MrOCT31

Guess I should have read back a few posts to have seen the information you just typed again! DOH!


----------



## jimmyzdc

Joel,

Any way you can post a picture of all the parts that come in the kit? Sorry I'm a visual person little easier for me to understand what I'm getting


----------



## gym_ghost

I will take some pictures tonight and try to post them. If not, someone here will have to post them. We're still having some issues with our FTP site and transferring of data. I will also try to modify our solidwork (3D modeling) of the skull assembly with all the components as to point out the components you will get in the kit. 

Stay tune... 

Thanks
Joel


----------



## dionicia

Yet another question. With the servo plates, will they already have all the holes where they need to be or will we need to do some drilling?

Thank you for putting up with us novices Joel.


----------



## gym_ghost

The servo plates are complete. That is to say, they are pre-cut to work with the Lindberg skull and for the 425 and 525 servos. Basically, install the servos, screw them down and install in the skull. 

Granted, you may have to do some take a file to the plate to make it fit right inside the skull. With plastic injection molding, each lot run always has abnormalities. That is to say, they change geometry - here and there. We built 14 Lindberg skulls and on 6 of them we did have to file away some material to make it fit. Do not attempt to squeeze this plate in or modify the skull. Doing this will cause the skull cap not to fit right and then you will need to modify that piece. This is especially true with the Bucky – sometimes up to a ¼ of inch off and in that case, we did heat up the skull to reshape it. I do not recommend you do this for the Lindberg. 

Important and needs to be pointed out… we did not tap the servo screw holes (4 holes that secure the servo to the servo plate). We will provide you the cap screws that mount the servo to the servo plate. You will have to screw these in carefully and straight into the hole. If you’re uncomfortable with doing that, we can tap them for you at no charge. Because this is plastic, there is a chance you could pull the threads out with them being pre tap. Reason we don’t tap them. The screw is capable of forming the threads. CAUTION: if the screw is not straight up and down when screwing in, it could crack or break the plate. We had this happen four times with about 300 builds. 

Mounting the plate into the skull. We will be provided you a template where you will drill into the skull and plate. If done right, all the holes will line up and it’s just a matter of screwing in four screws to hold it into place. We decided to not to do this for if you need to modify the plate, it may not align with the skull right. We do not provide the screws for this. We will recommend what to use. We will have the screws available for purchasing, but I did not list them on the list I posted early. I will fix that shortly.

FYI – last week we got a neighborhood kid (13 years old) to come to the shop. With basic tools (drill, screw driver, allen wrenches, small wrench, and pliers) we asked him to build a three axis skull with the kit provided and with the servos, skulls, rod ends/cap, etc. He was able to build it in three hours, using this thread and only asking us two questions: (1)how do I drill/align the holes to mount the plate to the skull (we came up with the drill template paper), (2) how do I orientate the servos prior to mounting the rod ends to the axis rod. (we added this to the instructions.) 

One more note – we did not pre drill for the jaw servo. Because many of you use different servos to make the jaw move, we decided to leave it up to you. We do have a cut out area on the plate where the rod will go to make the jaw move. But again, you will need to do all of this. 

I hope this helps?
Joel


----------



## uncle

Is that kid for rent? I am not at all sure I have figured out which end of the hammer to hold.


----------



## gym_ghost

Laughing... unfortunately, no. My advice to all of you, have fun... go with it and do it. Before you know it, your skull will have its own personality. Really - I have a skull here I swear is a joker, where we have one we call the chatter. Each skull should be different in its own way. 

Now with that being said, ff you break something or something worse, I have no problem replacing the part at no charge. Just dont abuse this gift. 

My beliefs, as always, Halloween is for the kids and for adults to take a step back in time and to remember those days of ToT and or doing them tricks... I tell me wife, one year I am going to go in costume and ToT - just for the heck of it... I, no all of us, are big kids at heart. 

Have fun... if you build it, they will come!!!!

Arrr...parlay that (I suck at being a pirate)... but I like the RUM!!!

joel


----------



## dionicia

If you go TOT, the kids will miss out on meeting you at your haunt. 

By the way, what is your theme this year?


----------



## jimmyzdc

Any luck with getting some pictures up Joel?

Thanks,


----------



## gym_ghost

I will get the pictures up this weekend. Been very busy here. 

THanks
Joel


----------



## RBC

gym-ghost I would like to put a website page for your product on my website. for those that need plates already would that be ok with you?
The link would go to you so you get the orders, Thanks Blinky


----------



## ScaryTinker

Gym_Ghost

I'm trying to clarify what the 3-axis kit does and does not do. The head turns, tilts, and elevates... right? What about jaw motion? Any provision for eye movement?

Ordering starts tommorow?

Thanks

ScaryTinker


----------



## RBC

ScaryTinker said:


> Gym_Ghost
> 
> I'm trying to clarify what the 3-axis kit does and does not do. The head turns, tilts, and elevates... right? What about jaw motion? Any provision for eye movement?
> 
> Ordering starts tommorow?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> ScaryTinker



as I undersatnd this is the kit will make the skull move in the directions you mentioned and if you add a servo for the jaw Gym ghost has predrilled that hole for the jaw wire to go through to make the jaw work too it will take 4 servos to do all this..


----------



## gym_ghost

Sorry for the long delay. RBC is correct. We will provide the necassary hardware, minus servos and their linkage, to build a 3 axis skull. Because everyone uses different servos to move the jaw, we did not pre-drill for the servos, but did provide a cut out area for the jaw linkage to go. Where and how you place the jaw servo is up to you...but we gave you plenty of room.

Pictures will be up tomorrow!!!! We finally got our FTP site up and running... 

Also, to date - over 80 orders, 3/4 of them for kits. 

Thanks
Joel


----------



## Lynn

Great Joel ! Can't wait to see the site !


----------



## dionicia

Woo Hoo! Joel is da man!


----------



## RBC

dionicia said:


> Woo Hoo! Joel is da man!



yes he is and Blinky ant half bad either,lol no big head here


----------



## gym_ghost

Okay... I lied... still cant get the FTP site to work... we cant see the pictures once we post them. I have call into the network geek to fix it - again. So bear with me for another day!!!

Joel


----------



## Specter

Has anyone found a better solution for the servo armatures that connect the arms to the center rod? I see that HalloweenBob cut his out of sheet metal. I was hoping to find an easier solution at HomeDepot or something (where I don't have to order it- I wanna get this up and running TODAY!) I just think there would be an easier solution by now... anyone? I didn't see CaptainJack's armatures in his videos...
Thanks!


----------



## Specter

Also- I just realized I don't have the threaded rod that connects the two black linkages together (the ones that connect the servo to the center rod). I have the black pieces themselves, but nothing for them to screw onto. Where would I get that from?


----------



## Abunai

Specter said:


> Also- I just realized I don't have the threaded rod that connects the two black linkages together (the ones that connect the servo to the center rod). I have the black pieces themselves, but nothing for them to screw onto. Where would I get that from?


I bought mine at a hobby shop. Hobby Town (or equivalent) should have the threaded rod. 

I found that even when I used just enough rod to connect the two linkages together, the resulting "arm" was too long. I ended up cutting a little bit off of the end of each linkage. 

As far as the armature you asked about in the previous post; the only servo that attaches to an armature is the rotate servo. I cut the armature out of some aluminum stock that I had laying around. The other two servo arms should be connected to the top of the rod. You will have to drill and tap a hole in the top of the rod (hardest part of the build, for me.), then put a machine screw (I used 2-56) through the linkages into the tapped hole in the rod.


----------



## gym_ghost

Any hobby store carries the threaded rod. Regarding the armatures... well, before I answer this, were currently working on our server here at work. We found out we have a problem with an IP address that is not allowing us to view pictures out there in the internet. We can see them internally, just not beyond the firewall. So were currently reconfiguring this and should have pictures up in a few hours: Sunday, PST 8:42. With that being said, I will show you how we make them... pretty simple: basically, purchase a 3/4" manual knockout punch. Purchase either 16 gauge or 14 gauge sheet metal - any hardware store will carry this (go to roofing and they sell blanks of one sf for $1.99. DO NOT DRILL FOR THE BOLT HOLE. Instead, use a vise and squeeze the parts together. Once you get the circle, take a pair of tin snips and make your sides. Drill for the linkage hole and you have your armature.

Again, pictures fourth coming...

And yes, I am working on 94 orders this morning. WOW.... Lots of 3-axis skulls being built out there. I hope you all plan to post pictures (might add, 48 of the orders are from individuals that have been monitoring the thread, but not YET members.)

Joel


----------



## RBC

Specter said:


> Also- I just realized I don't have the threaded rod that connects the two black linkages together (the ones that connect the servo to the center rod). I have the black pieces themselves, but nothing for them to screw onto. Where would I get that from?


 go to my website and order them by clicking on the blue flame skull just follow the skulls to the hardware page,if you plan on putting them on the bucky you will need a reducer coupler too.


----------



## Specter

ok, I"ll check out a hobby store today for the threaded rod. Also- how do I go about drilling/tapping the center hold on the rod? I guess I need to buy a tap set? Any suggestions on that one?
Thanks!


----------



## Specter

Gym- you completely lost me here. Can you clarify? I don't know what a manual knockout punch is. I'm googling it- and finding sets for $700! Surely that can't be what you're talking about. Any hints?
Thanks


----------



## Specter

Gym-
Actually, I think I get what you are saying now- but not completely. Why use a knockout punch at all? Can't we just use tin snips and cut the shape out of the sheet metal?
Thanks!


----------



## Specter

Yeah- sorry to be a psycho-poster today- but I wanna get this done! LOL. I'm not finding a tap/die set that carries a 2-56 size. Checked harbor freight- nothing. They have other sets, but none that go that small. Suggestions?


----------



## RBC

Specter said:


> ok, I"ll check out a hobby store today for the threaded rod. Also- how do I go about drilling/tapping the center hold on the rod? I guess I need to buy a tap set? Any suggestions on that one?
> Thanks!



spector go to my tutorial and read what some of the people have used to make what you want and it doesn't cost much Thanks


----------



## Specter

RBC-
I'm not seeing anything in there about this stuff. The tutorial ends at the spinal coupling- am I missing something?
Thanks


----------



## Abunai

Specter said:


> ok, I"ll check out a hobby store today for the threaded rod. Also- how do I go about drilling/tapping the center hold on the rod? I guess I need to buy a tap set? Any suggestions on that one?
> Thanks!


Spectre, 

The hobby store will probably also have a tap and a drill bit packaged together to drill and tap a 2-56 hole. They have them for 4-40 holes too. 

I ended up buying a titanium bit from Home-depot, because the one in the set from the hobby store broke on my first attempt. (I don't remember the exact size, but if you find the bit/tap set at the hobby store, you'll know the right size for the titanium bit.) Drll SLOWLY, and back out every couple of seconds to let the bit and the rod cool down. I used a drill press. I drilled a hole in a piece of scrap 2x4 to put the rod in to hold it steady.


----------



## Specter

Ahhh- ok- that's a big help. I was trying to decide between a scroll saw, and a drill press the other day. I went with the scroll saw. DANG IT! LOL. I'll check out the hobby stores around here and see what I can find.
Thanks!


----------



## RBC

Specter said:


> RBC-
> I'm not seeing anything in there about this stuff. The tutorial ends at the spinal coupling- am I missing something?
> Thanks


is a work in progress I just started writing it but Thanks


----------



## Specter

ok, apparently I don't know how to tap grooves into a piece of all thread. I just broke my tap inside the hold of the all thread- I'm not very happy about it. Let me ask you guys- do you put a lot of pressure on it when you're twisting the tap? I wasn't putting any pressure at first, and it was just spinning in circles on me- not cutting grooves in there. I AM using oil with it- any suggestions here?
Thanks


----------



## wicc_ed

For the side to side linkage, I used a washer with a hole drilled in it between two nuts.


----------



## Abunai

Specter said:


> ok, apparently I don't know how to tap grooves into a piece of all thread. I just broke my tap inside the hold of the all thread- I'm not very happy about it. Let me ask you guys- do you put a lot of pressure on it when you're twisting the tap? I wasn't putting any pressure at first, and it was just spinning in circles on me- not cutting grooves in there. I AM using oil with it- any suggestions here?
> Thanks


I didn't use oil. The general process is to drill the hole first, with a bit that is slightly smaller than the threads. Then twist the tap in. It doesn't take a whole lot of pressure, and the tip of the tap is narrower than the main part of the tap so that the tap can get far enough into the hole to start cutting threads. If it was spinning without cutting threads, it sounds like the hole was drilled the wrong size. (not sure if it was spinning inside the hole, or not able to get into the hole to start cutting threads.)

p.s. I ruined two or three rods by snapping the drill bit off inside the rod as I was drilling. Once the bit is broken inside the rod, it can't be re-drilled or tapped. Luckily, quarter inch threaded rod is cheap.


----------



## HalloweenBob

using oil, start turning the tap into the hole until it starts cutting....just a little bit. Then back it off. Twist it in again going a little farther, then back it off again. Making sure to keep it lubricated, continue that pattern until the hole is tapped as far as you need it to be.

For starters, be sure that you are using the proper sixe drill bit to put that tap in.

For your info....they do make a broken tap removal tool. I have used them. they work well. It may be worth it if you have an otherwise good rod that you want to save.


----------



## Specter

ok, I got it tapped. Wicc_ed- can you explain more about the washer thing you did? I am very interested at hearing alternative solutions. Do you have pictures possibly?
THanks guys!!!


----------



## Specter

Yeah, I figured out how to do it. I was very slow and gentle with it. It doesn't grab too well at the top- but- when it gets down in there, it's pretty solid. I guess now I'm a 'tapper' too... ;D


----------



## Specter

Also-
I thought I was reading that in order to center the weight of the skull and provide less stress on your servos, we need to move the center hole in the plate towards the front (face) of the skull a little bit. Is this true? If so, how much do we move it? Is there a newer, corrected template to use for cutting the plate out with this correction in it?
Thanks!


----------



## HalloweenBob

No, the center hole itself is not the problem. It is much larger than it needs to be to allow your fingers to do some work in there.

The adjusting is made by moving the centerpoint where the rod end is. This is an adjustment of how far out from the bracket you tighten the nuts on the rod end which holds the center connecting rod.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Spectre, go buy either 2-56 or 4-40 all-thread from D&D, Viper, or that shop on Baseline @ Gilbert.. using pliers/cutters, cut into 3/4 to 1" lengths to join the rod-ends together. I ran out of all-thread so I cut the head off 4-40 screws.. I also had to cut abt 1/8"-1/4"" off each to shorten them up to the correct length.


----------



## Specter

Yeah, already bought some from there today. That's next- I just got done cutting out the plate, man, what a pain that is! BTW- I had some 3/8" plexi I am using- I know you guys used 1/4" stuff- but this was free and available. It's only 1/8" thicker than yours- I hope that's not too much to put a strain on the servos...


----------



## Crypt Keeper

The most important thing when using a tap and die set is the size hole you make or the size material your using that needs the thread

the drill size is crucial as the tap is specifically designed for a certain size. Most tap and die sets come with a chart....if not.....

Here are the common sizes people are discussing here

2-56 Thread requires #50 Drill Bit or .0700 Inch Diameter
4-40 Thread requires #43 Drill Bit or .0890 Inch Diameter
1/4-20 Thread requires #7 Drill Bit or .2010 Inch Diameter


----------



## Specter

ok, maybe Jack can answer this one for me...

How did you mount the jaw servo? I see that HalloweenBob used Aluminum strips... is that what you used? If so, where do I get those from? How thick are they?

Almost done! Just gotta mount the jaw servo, then screw everything together and hope it works! YIPPEE!!!


----------



## RBC

Specter said:


> ok, maybe Jack can answer this one for me...
> 
> How did you mount the jaw servo? I see that HalloweenBob used Aluminum strips... is that what you used? If so, where do I get those from? How thick are they?
> 
> Almost done! Just gotta mount the jaw servo, then screw everything together and hope it works! YIPPEE!!!


I'm not Jack but I can answer you. Go to Lowes or Home Depot and buy a flat strip of alum stock and we hammer bend it in to a bracket to hold the servos. we then drill holes for mounting the servo in the alum before we place it on the skull plate then we put our screws in to hold it dont predrill holes in the plate.(once you have remove the drill this makes the holes to big if you predrill )

I Hope this has helped you HUgs  ps 1/2" wide at least


----------



## Specter

Wicc_Ed just sent me a KILLER tip- soo simple and easy. Instead of fabricating a jaw bracket- he just used a Zip Tie. DOH! That's the easiest solution I've seen yet! Just gotta drill the holes big enough, and ziiiiiiiiiip! It's done! Thanks Wicc_Ed!


----------



## Specter

RBC- that's a great tip too! Thanks!


----------



## RBC

Specter said:


> RBC- that's a great tip too! Thanks!



your welcome sweety 

and the zip tie thing sounds interesting but over time I wonder if it will hold up? after all the time you have spent on this and the money . How can I put this with out hurting feelings sometimes the easiest it not always the best way. Way would you want to have to keep repearing something to make it work..I Hope it does hold up. only time will tell..


----------



## RBC

JPettis said:


> Where did you get your skull from. I am using a bucky skull...just wish I had something with a little less weight.


i sell the lght weight skulls on my website.


----------



## Abunai

RBC said:


> your welcome sweety
> 
> and the zip tie thing sounds interesting but over time I wonder if it will hold up? after all the time you have spent on this and the money . How can I put this with out hurting feelings sometimes the easiest it not always the best way. Way would you want to have to keep repearing something to make it work..I Hope it does hold up. only time will tell..


I thought about going the zip-tie route, and wanted to get the thing DONE! I contained myself and knocked out an aluminum bracket. I had put so much time and money into my first skull, I wanted to make sure it was done right and done sturdy. 

I have one skull, out of four complete. I have all of the parts for the other three, cut out, drilled, and ready to go, but have not put them together yet. I'm having too much fun playing with the first one. I can't wait to get the Linxmotion controller board so that I can work out a full routine with Parlay. Then I will complete all four and post a video. 

Sooner or later, we will need to get a VSA routine trading thread going. Lord knows there will be plenty of people out there working up routines for their new 3-axis skulls.


----------



## Specter

So what's this Parlay thing everyone's talking about? Does it REPLACE VSA?
Thanks


----------



## wicc_ed

No it doesnt replace VSA, it assists in programming it, allowing you to program more than one axis at a time.


----------



## wicc_ed

RBC said:


> your welcome sweety
> 
> and the zip tie thing sounds interesting but over time I wonder if it will hold up? after all the time you have spent on this and the money . How can I put this with out hurting feelings sometimes the easiest it not always the best way. Way would you want to have to keep repearing something to make it work..I Hope it does hold up. only time will tell..


Not hurting any feelings here, I never mentioned the zip strip idea here, because I was using it as a temp fix. I can get impatient and want to see things working. And living in an apartment, I have limited times that I can use noisey power tools.


----------



## Specter

huh- I thought VSA already had that capability. How much does Parlay cost? Where do we get it from?


----------



## Dr Morbius

Parlay costs $500.00 for a 30 day liscence only. After that it stops functioning and you have to renew it every month for $10.00 to keep using it. It's $30.00 more per month for a Mac, I don't know why. You could get the free pirated version....Oh wait! The original is free! I was just joking before...Capt Jack has a link somewhere around here maybe he can repost it. Sorry, I'm in a weird mood tonight.


----------



## RBC

wicc_ed said:


> Not hurting any feelings here, I never mentioned the zip strip idea here, because I was using it as a temp fix. I can get impatient and want to see things working. And living in an apartment, I have limited times that I can use noisey power tools.


Cool because I hate to hurt peoples feels. as a temp thing i can see how that would work. and like you I too live in a apartment but since my neighbour don't care who they bother I don' t care much either. lol
she once told me on Halloween i was going to hell for worshiping the devils birthday..so I asked how did she know it was the devils birthday was she there when he was born?lol
everyday she came down stairs with her kids to go out, the kids would say stuff like thats cool. and she would tell them NO its Not she is going to hell. Dont look at it.


----------



## wicc_ed

*Devils Birthday*



RBC said:


> Cool because I hate to hurt peoples feels. as a temp thing i can see how that would work. and like you I too live in a apartment but since my neighbour don't care who they bother I don' t care much either. lol
> she once told me on Halloween i was going to hell for worshiping the devils birthday..so I asked how did she know it was the devils birthday was she there when he was born?lol
> everyday she came down stairs with her kids to go out, the kids would say stuff like thats cool. and she would tell them NO its Not she is going to hell. Dont look at it.


Wow The Devils Birthday... Now see I was under the impression that the Devil was once an angel... Gods favorite Angel... Gods Right hand Angel. A Supreme Angel... That fell into disgrace... and create his own kingdom... of hell.
I was also under the impression that the Supreme Angels were jealous of the humans because god love the humans more. And that humans when they went to heaven... they could not become these Supreme Angels. So that led me to believe that they came from the same place (where ever that may be) as God did. That they had always existed. 
And if that is the case... then like God... the Devil doesnt have a birthday!


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Spectre, 

'look at me YouTube video page, _First_ _3axis skull test_, you'll see the jaw servo mounting and strap. I know it sounds like a lot ta do, bu' ya *reeeally* need ta go thru each post in th' thread 'mate. Eacha th' questions you asked arrre in th' thread.. VSA, Parlay, linkages, servo mountin'... 

Capt. Jack


----------



## RBC

wicc_ed said:


> Wow The Devils Birthday... Now see I was under the impression that the Devil was once an angel... Gods favorite Angel... Gods Right hand Angel. A Supreme Angel... That fell into disgrace... and create his own kingdom... of hell.
> I was also under the impression that the Supreme Angels were jealous of the humans because god love the humans more. And that humans when they went to heaven... they could not become these Supreme Angels. So that led me to believe that they came from the same place (where ever that may be) as God did. That they had always existed.
> And if that is the case... then like God... the Devil doesnt have a birthday!


ok didnt mean to side track thre thread but yes your right that is what I learn to through the years


----------



## Specter

Jack-
A couple questions. That test video shows the skull movements to be a little jerky and bounces at times. Is there any reason for this that we can put a fix to? I've seen other videos that didn't seem that way, and ones that seem worse. 

Also- looks like you used different types of armtures/linkages for the Nod & Tilt linkages. In the video, it looks to be a single piece in an 'L-shape' that is connecting both of them together. Can you explain what this is? The others I've seen have the linkages independently mounted on top of the center rod (via the tapped screw), just one sitting on top of another. 

Yes, it's a VERY daunting task to go through 68 pages of posts. Believe it or not, I have read all of it, a couple times now. I've read HalloweenBob's PDF/tutorial a number of times, and watched your videos a number of times. The problem is that there's information all over the place, from different techniques, methods, etc. It's very overwhelming and confusing when you have 7-8 different ways to do something, all intertwined within one thread. So when I go back to find an answer to something, I MAY find it- but it MAY be for a different method or technique- so I have to go back another 5-10 pages to figure out what we're talking about in that moment. I'll try to go back more, but it just triples the timeframe on getting this done. Very daunting, to say the least. Hopefully it'll pay off when the thing is up and running!
Thanks for all your help!


----------



## RBC

If I may Jack is Off line : The Bounce come from the way he has the test bench set up once it is mounted to the body of the Victim you will not get that bounce.


yes you or right about having to go through all the posts that is why I'm doing the tutorial on my tutorial page you will see Jacks name if you click it. it takes you to a page that has all his videos on it


----------



## Specter

Ahhh- very cool. Hopefully he can explain the L-Shape arm when he gets back online. I really appreciate all the help here!
Thanks guys! Maybe tonight I'll have some video to show!


----------



## RBC

Specter said:


> Ahhh- very cool. Hopefully he can explain the L-Shape arm when he gets back online. I really appreciate all the help here!
> Thanks guys! Maybe tonight I'll have some video to show!


sorry had to rewatch the video to see what you were talking about trying to keep up with everyone ways of doing thing s is hard ,lol

In Jacks video he used a 1x1 lumber "L" bracket to make the connection between the skull plate movement and the controller rod so when the servos move, the skull plate will move too. does this answer what you needed ? because he didnt have a heat gun to do it Halloween bobs way of bending the plastic to make the bridge.

Most people don't have heat guns laying around the house, unless your nUtts like us,lol and have everything Lowes has and then you can be a branch store. Hugs Hope this has helped you out


----------



## gym_ghost

PART 1 of 2 

PICTURES ARE HERE... WOW, I HATE SERVERS, THE INTERNET, IP ADDRESSES, and anything else related to it... (took us 6 hours to configure our server IP's to do this.) (LINKS ARE TO BIGGER PICTURES +800K)









For larger picture: http://www.graveyardmadness.com/Props/3axis_Skull/IMG_7188.jpg

This is the kit assemblied!








For larger picture: http://www.graveyardmadness.com/Props/3axis_Skull/IMG_7183.jpg








For larger picture: http://www.graveyardmadness.com/Props/3axis_Skull/IMG_7181.jpg








For larger picture: http://www.graveyardmadness.com/Props/3axis_Skull/IMG_7180.jpg

This is the basic Lindberg or Servo Kit. 








For larger picture: http://www.graveyardmadness.com/Props/3axis_Skull/IMG_7178.jpg


----------



## gym_ghost

PART 2 of 2









For larger picture: http://www.graveyardmadness.com/Props/3axis_Skull/IMG_7175.jpg








For larger picture: http://www.graveyardmadness.com/Props/3axis_Skull/IMG_7174.jpg








For larger picture: http://www.graveyardmadness.com/Props/3axis_Skull/IMG_7172.jpg








For larger picture: http://www.graveyardmadness.com/Props/3axis_Skull/IMG_7171.jpg








For larger picture: http://www.graveyardmadness.com/Props/3axis_Skull/IMG_7170.jpg


----------



## gym_ghost

Folks,
Updates on orders: I am up to 107 orders (with half of them purchasing +3 or more kits) I spent the better part of yesterday processing about half of them. Invoices and the like will be going out this evening with the balance of orders (invoices) going out over the next few days. My goal is to ship out product as they are paid within 48 hours.

Also, we received a shipment of 10-32 Rod Ends for the Axis Rod. They are very tight (drag) to the point they will cause the servo's to work harder. I am sending them back and we will going with a different supplier. These rod ends wont be in until May 13. So some orders will be delayed until then. (I have 79 good rod ends in stock). I just ordered an additional 200.


I am going to do another production run later this week on plates and axis rods. 

I am glad to see many of you are purchasing Bucky kits!!! Long live the bucky!!!

Joel


----------



## Specter

Gym-
Pictures aren't working at all...


RBC-
No, that's not the bracket I was talking about. I AM using the same bracket to attach the plate to the controlling rod. But, the one I am talking about connected the servo linkages to the controller rod. Looks like the Nod/Tilt (not the rotate servo) are both connected to a single, L-Shaped piece. The servos have the black linkage, but then connect to the l-shape piece which is connected to the controller rod. So the linkages are black, but then the piece in question is a whitish color in the video. Know what I mean?


----------



## Specter

Gym, pictures are working now!

Oh man- I TOTALLY would have bought this kit, knowing now what I know! Just cutting the plate itself out is worth saving the hassle and buying it. Shoot- I might just buy it anyways and replace what I've got- or, add in another couple of characters. Dang, that looks AWESOME.


----------



## perdidoman

They do look good, great pic's. Looking forward to getting the invoice and making this a done deal. Great job GG


----------



## gym_ghost

Thanks for the kind words. Just feel bad it took so long. This move to the new building hurt us and with our server problem, just more gas on the fire. But going forward, it should be better.

In my opinion, the kits are the way to go. I am shocked with how many people are buidling them!!!! I am going to do another production run later in the week. Just ordered the materials to do it. I just hope they dont come alive or something, there will be an Army of 3-Axis Skull taking over the country...

Joel


----------



## dadgonemad

Great pics Joel! I can't express the appreciation we all have for your hard work on the R&D for this kit. 

Question: Since, blinky is putting together a full kit including your kit and all the other stuff (skull, servos, linkages, etc.) needed to build the entire prop, am I ok waiting for that to be ready, or should I order from you now? In other words, do I need to be worried about available stock and/or pricing for your kit?

Blinky, I welcome your input on this as well!

Thanks again!
-dgm


----------



## jimmyzdc

Great pix Joel...thanks so much! I'm going to be putting my order in today


----------



## RBC

Specter said:


> Gym, pictures are working now!
> 
> Oh man- I TOTALLY would have bought this kit, knowing now what I know! Just cutting the plate itself out is worth saving the hassle and buying it. Shoot- I might just buy it anyways and replace what I've got- or, add in another couple of characters. Dang, that looks AWESOME.


let me look at the video again Lol brb

I'm sorry I don't know what video you are watching I don't see any arm like thing in Jacks video do you have a link? are you sure it was jack video you were watching there are so many . if you can post a link I will try and help you.


----------



## Specter

Sure- it's the '3 Axis Pirate Skull Test' video- YouTube - skygodtj's Channel

When he is filming from the top, and moves the wires out of the way, you can see a clear shot. Maximize the video to be full screen and you'll see it clearly...


----------



## wicc_ed

Specter said:


> Sure- it's the '3 Axis Pirate Skull Test' video- YouTube - skygodtj's Channel
> 
> When he is filming from the top, and moves the wires out of the way, you can see a clear shot. Maximize the video to be full screen and you'll see it clearly...


What your seeing is two linkages together. There are no spacers between them and they look like a single unit. When in fact they are two seperate arms.


----------



## RBC

Specter said:


> Gym-
> Pictures aren't working at all...
> 
> 
> RBC-
> No, that's not the bracket I was talking about. I AM using the same bracket to attach the plate to the controlling rod. But, the one I am talking about connected the servo linkages to the controller rod. Looks like the Nod/Tilt (not the rotate servo) are both connected to a single, L-Shaped piece. The servos have the black linkage, but then connect to the l-shape piece which is connected to the controller rod. So the linkages are black, but then the piece in question is a whitish color in the video. Know what I mean?


ok what you are looking at in that shot of video is this:
The captain used 2 different size servo connectors and some come in Black and some come in white plastic that is what you are looking at.
Hope this has helped you out. Hugs


----------



## Specter

Yup- it does. Any reason he used 2 different sizes? Just curious...
Thanks!


----------



## wicc_ed

from what I understood, the 4-40 provides a stiffer rod (stronger) but the 2-56 rod end allows more clearance. (or it could be his hobby store is like mine and only keeps a couple of each size on hand at a time).


----------



## RBC

Specter said:


> Yup- it does. Any reason he used 2 different sizes? Just curious...
> Thanks!


Jack use a threaded rod he bought at Home Depot or Lowe's so he had to use a larger size servo connector to fit his arm servos. This can be done with the same Great results. And less money too. That is what I'm going to put in my skull packs. so they don't cost so much.!!!
Altho Gym Ghost has come up with a Great WAY of making the skulls talk. Not everyone can afford it. So I'm going to offer both version on my website . Gym Ghost's version as well as The Poor man's version.


----------



## Specter

RBC- what do you mean by a larger size servo connector? I did the same thing- used all thread from home depot- but I still tapped it with a 2-56 screw. Just curious if that's going to work, and how it's different than Jack's?


----------



## wicc_ed

I think what RBC meant was that... the servo rod (not the head supporting all-thread) was made of a very small all thread... Actually I think I remember reading that Jack actually used small bolts and cut the heads off to screw his ball links together.


----------



## RBC

Specter said:


> RBC- what do you mean by a larger size servo connector? I did the same thing- used all thread from home depot- but I still tapped it with a 2-56 screw. Just curious if that's going to work, and how it's different than Jack's?


there are different size servo connectors as well, Its a matter of what a person like they come in 256 and 440 size 


It just depends on what the person like to use.


----------



## bradbaum

Has anybody tried to add more servos to control eyeball tilt and roll?

It looks like Jaw and eye lid servos are common additions, but I don't think I saw a post about eyeball movement in this 70 page post.

Just curious.


----------



## HalloweenBob

I'll help here. What I did was take a piece of aluminum, cut it into strips with a hack saw, and bent it using vice-grips. Then I just drilled holes in the tabs.

It was really pretty easy. There are some closeup picyures of the process much earlier in this thread.


----------



## Specter

Yeah, I too would like to add some eyeball movement to this rig. Any suggestions for that? I imagine it could be mounted UNDER the plate, but then I worry about the overall weight of the thing stressing the servos out...
Anyone?


----------



## RBC

HalloweenBob said:


> I'll help here. What I did was take a piece of aluminum, cut it into strips with a hack saw, and bent it using vice-grips. Then I just drilled holes in the tabs.
> 
> It was really pretty easy. There are some closeup picyures of the process much earlier in this thread.



HUh? what are you in ref to here Bob BTW HI. I love your work.


----------



## gym_ghost

Couple of things: my kit uses 4-40 linkage. But this afternoon we had one member of this board come by the shop to pick up his kits. He asked if the 2-56 linkage would work. We told him yes. He asked how with our 4-40 screw for the axis rod. DOH... I am having a screw shop make up a 4-40 to 2-56 thread adapter. I should have these this Friday. Linkage really does not matter, but we did have a 2-56 break on us during one of our test.


Eye movement up and down - we experimented with this a few months back and got it to work with the board we provided. It will require two micro servos and some small clamps to hold them on the underside of the servo board. The linkage was straightforward with each servo driving one eyeball and the other link to it. You will have to cut some material out of the skull to make it work. When I get home tonight, I will try to find the pictures of how this worked and post them here since our server now works.

Good Luck,
Joel


----------



## HalloweenBob

Back on Page 7 of this thread shows pictures and explains how I made the brackets for the Jaw Servo. It also shows the mod to the servo itself.

Hi Blinky


----------



## Specter

ok- I see that- however, what EXACTLY did you use for the aluminum material? I found some strips of aluminum at Home Depot- but they seemed really thick to me. Seemed too thick to use for this application. Can you tell me exactly the material you bought so I can try to match it up? I get how you did it- just haven't found material there to make it...
Thanks!


----------



## RBC

Specter said:


> ok- I see that- however, what EXACTLY did you use for the aluminum material? I found some strips of aluminum at Home Depot- but they seemed really thick to me. Seemed too thick to use for this application. Can you tell me exactly the material you bought so I can try to match it up? I get how you did it- just haven't found material there to make it...
> Thanks!


you don't want to material to be to thin 1/16 or better. Flat alum stock any thing that you can cut will work like lumber plates .metal kick stop, alum strips in the hardware section. Hope this has helped.
ps you can put mini servos in for eye movement and use straight links to operate them as Gym already has stated guess i will make a sell page for them too on my website.


----------



## RBC

Specter said:


> Yeah, I too would like to add some eyeball movement to this rig. Any suggestions for that? I imagine it could be mounted UNDER the plate, but then I worry about the overall weight of the thing stressing the servos out...
> Anyone?



the servos that are used in the eyes don't weight alot they are 38.9 oz. and are no bigger then a quarter. the power your other servos have can handle their weight. I now have a eye servo page on my website. if you still want some. Mini servo cost more then the other servos that is why I think alot of people by pass on them.


----------



## RBC

bradbaum said:


> Has anybody tried to add more servos to control eyeball tilt and roll?
> 
> It looks like Jaw and eye lid servos are common additions, but I don't think I saw a post about eyeball movement in this 70 page post.
> 
> Just curious.



just letting you know I added a eye servo page to my website if you want some.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Finally got video of me color coded wires, and fer Spectre, the end part of the video has the linkages..

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MIW638ya6pA


----------



## Specter

dude that rocks!


----------



## RBC

aye that's why he be captain Jack sparrow

ello luv

if you need anything in writing to refer to is on my new Numbskull* tutorial Jack put his to bits in the tutorial last night.


----------



## HalloweenBob

Spector,

I see that there have been other replys about the aluminum strips. I really don't know the specs on what I used. It waqs just a scap piece that was laying around. The thickness isn't really that important. It has to be thick enough to hold it's shape and be somewhat rigid, but thin enough so that you can bend it into shape without too much trouble.

Maybe a sixteenth of an inch or a little less. I never measured it. Just use something that is easy to work with and you'll be fine.


----------



## Specter

yeah, found a metal strap for like $0.88 last night- I plan on cutting it down and using that. It should bend fairly easy...
Thanks!


----------



## RBC

Specter said:


> yeah, found a metal strap for like $0.88 last night- I plan on cutting it down and using that. It should bend fairly easy...
> Thanks!



I was going to tell you to use the top of a green bean can if you dont have anything else,lol


----------



## HalloweenBob

By the way, I am pleased and amazed at how this thread has taken off. I love that so many have taken on this project and have had such great results. Gym Ghost is making a whole industry out of it! Fantastic!!

Some of your modifications have been great as well. Many of you have found parts that I didn't know existed, things I had to make myself for my project.

I am glad to have been part of this, and to have inspired so many just as you have inspired me to get into this.

For those of you that have followed this thread and what has happened to my quartet, I thought I would provide an update.

Just after last Halloween, I had to move for work purposes. I didn't have storage room for all my things and badly needed money for the move, so I sold just about everything I had including the quartet. Troy, from this forum ended up with the quartet and most of my other stuff also got a good home with wandererrob, also from this forum.

Now that I am in the new place (a condo in Vermont) I am beginning to get the Halloween bug again. I have started looking for people or groups that put on haunts in my area. Haven't really found too much, but I would love to hear from anyone who Haunts in Vermont. I am right on the border near Hanover, NH and Dartmouth College.

We moved because my Wife had just gotten a 5 year research grant from Dartmouth College where she worked and the commute was way too much from Massachusetts where we lived. What I didn't know was that after getting up here, I would also land a job at Dartmouth College. I now work in the Biology Department which is part of the medical school. My job is to fix broken lab equipment as well as to build and design new equipment when needed for lab experiments. They would tell me what they want it to do, and I would design and build whatever it is.

The videos of my quartet that I posted on YouTube actually got me the job. After seeing what I had made, and telling them that this was my first robotics project, the entire staff here at Dartmouth decided that I was qualified to do the job. It is one of the best jobs I have ever had, so thank you again to all who inspired me to do this. Again, I need to remind everyone that although this was an original design, the concept of the singing graveyard quartet and even some of the songs they sing came from my inspiration here on this forum, Mike C!

Now in my new job, I have my own office which is fully stocked with electronics parts, nuts and bolts, motors, and just about every tool you can think of and several you can't. It has an electronics workbench and plenty of room. I also have my own woodshop and machine shop that only I use to manufacture all the stuff I need to build here. It is amazing. I can come in on my off time whenever I want to use the shops, and it's only 15 minutes from my new place.

Here are some of the folks I work with down in the basement in the "Bone Room"









This is a lion...It has large retractable claws, that probably don't show up too well in this picture









I think this is a dolphin or something similar









This guy is some sort of sea animal. It has hands and feet, but they were webbed, more like fins.









No, these are not buckies...these are the real deal!

Oh, and that Big Brown bone at the right edge of the picture... That is a femur bone from a T-Rex! For real! I had to build a display stand for it.


----------



## RBC

Wow Bob talk about Halloween Heaven you are in it,lol
Good Luck In your New Job Hugs Blinky


----------



## wicc_ed

Wow That is just too Cool HB! And for some reason Im having visions of Animal Bones teaching the class next year!


----------



## Lynn

I second that ! Great job ! You will fit in quite nicely! I'm jealous !

So, what do you have on the agenca HB ? Going to try building anything yet ? Or waiting to find a haunt to work with ?


----------



## RBC

here is what would be real cool : if he made a Numbskull teaccher skeleton to give the class lesson more kids would pay attension and not skip classes then. I can see it now a skeleton sitting at the teacher desk give the class instructions,lol


----------



## perdidoman

*Congrats, Glad it's working for you.*


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Aye Bob, congrats on a job well earned an' done!! It be really nigh a surprise tha' ya got the job for the quartet build, as it be a tremendous display of buildin' prowess, bringin' together mechanics an' electronics! Hazzah!!


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

me next video tha' I got togetha fer Gym_Ghost be me lynx controller build.. is nigh much, bu' shows 'ow it be mounted in a 4x4 PVC electrical outlet box from HD. The faceplate an' Cat5 sockets also be from HD. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQjaIxOsWDE

Secondly.. I suggest everyone go to th' Jameco Electronics website ta order a catalog which 'as mounds o' booty fer builders. Th' connectors alone make it a world o' difference ta wirin' servos to the Cat5 cable.. pages 70-74 are pin(molex) plugs and connectors I be usin' to plug servos in, 'stead of solderin' 'em directly.. wishin' I'd found it 'fore I started th' build, wouldnt be strippin' it apart to put on th' connecters..


----------



## thedudedrummer

great video TJ! Couldnt have done it better myself  How many of the army do you have built so far?


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

'ello DD, I 'ave yer servos, an' the address now, so I be 'eadin out th' door ta get them off ta ya.. I be ashamed ta say jus' 3 skulls so far.. bu' I 'ave me assembly line in place, an' skulls lined up waitin ta be fitted with th' plastic plate.. they be cut, and drilled an all, jus 'ave ta slip in th' servos, screw'em down an mount th' plate in th' skulls.. I 'ave a couple plates I promised ta Dionicia and a couple others ta get them started on thar builds, an' ken try ta get them out tis week too.. If I ken get abt one done a week, I be set in abt 2 months('ave abt 15 ta build..)

Dionicia.. can ya PM me agin wit' yer addy?


----------



## RBC

CaptnJackSparrow said:


> me next video tha' I got togetha fer Gym_Ghost be me lynx controller build.. is nigh much, bu' shows 'ow it be mounted in a 4x4 PVC electrical outlet box from HD. The faceplate an' Cat5 sockets also be from HD.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQjaIxOsWDE
> 
> Secondly.. I suggest everyone go to th' Jameco Electronics website ta order a catalog which 'as mounds o' booty fer builders. Th' connectors alone make it a world o' difference ta wirin' servos to the Cat5 cable.. pages 70-74 are pin(molex) plugs and connectors I be usin' to plug servos in, 'stead of solderin' 'em directly.. wishin' I'd found it 'fore I started th' build, wouldnt be strippin' it apart to put on th' connecters..


Hey sweet stuff the green line goes to the rotate servo and the brown line went to the Jaw Lol
see I do to listen to you lol


----------



## fravak

I know I'm a few hours behind on this thread, but I thought I'd chime in on how I mounted my jaw bracket. 

I used a blank slot cover I pulled out of an old PC I had in the garage. All I had to do was drill a screw hole in one end. The end that attached to the PC originally already had a slot that fit perfectly under the screw at the front of the skull. 

It's very lightweight aluminum, but it also had two grooves running the length of the cover that gave it enough strength.


----------



## buckaneerbabe

Wow HB, that sounds like a dream job!! I'm so glad it all worked out for you!!! I can't wait to see what you cook up in your new laboratory!!!!


----------



## Specter

Gym_Ghost-
After fabricating my own parts, I gotta say, THE KIT IS THE WAY TO GO! Yeah, it's slightly more expensive, but what's it cost you in TIME to make it all? Also- I had to buy extra tools for the job, so for me, it cost me about the same, if not MORE than just buying the kits.

I am VERY tempted to just buy a couple kits myself and make a few more of these things. If I'm already buying the software and the board, I may as well have a few more...

I see that the kits are $60. I thought someone here had a good deal on the Lindberg skulls, servos, and everything else we need to purchase (the whole kit and kaboodle). Any insights as to pricing for all the rest?
Thanks!


----------



## dionicia

Blinky aka RBC is selling the extra odds and ends. She has just about everything but the kitchen sink on her site.

Wait a minute....I just found it. Nevermind, she has everything on her site.


----------



## RBC

fravak said:


> I know I'm a few hours behind on this thread, but I thought I'd chime in on how I mounted my jaw bracket.
> 
> I used a blank slot cover I pulled out of an old PC I had in the garage. All I had to do was drill a screw hole in one end. The end that attached to the PC originally already had a slot that fit perfectly under the screw at the front of the skull.
> 
> It's very lightweight aluminum, but it also had two grooves running the length of the cover that gave it enough strength.


now that was cool idea do you have a pic?
i tell secptor when he was looking for something to make the servo arm to use the lid of a green bean cam but i was joking . Good job of brain power there.


----------



## RBC

dionicia said:


> Blinky aka RBC is selling the extra odds and ends. She has just about everything but the kitchen sink on her site.
> 
> Wait a minute....I just found it. Nevermind, she has everything on her site.



I laughed so hard when I saw your post Thanks but you forgot the Cat under the bed and the dog at the back door and a zombie in every closet that my goal,lol


----------



## Specter

RBC-
I don't see the Lindberg Skulls on your site- I thought someone was selling them for $12 on here?
Thanks


----------



## RBC

Specter said:


> RBC-
> I don't see the Lindberg Skulls on your site- I thought someone was selling them for $12 on here?
> Thanks


go to my main page and click the blue flame skull it takes you to all the Lindburd sale pages that you need or you can look in the menu under sale items and buy the Numbskull* kit. I'm sellig them for 412.00 but there is a paypal fee . making them atotal of $14.00


----------



## Specter

got it- thanks!


----------



## RBC

Specter said:


> got it- thanks!


cool, in the memo note slot put your halloween name so i have a way to match orders up Thanks


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Dudedrummer, I got yer servos on th' way to ye.. ye shud see them Friday/Saturday.


----------



## thedudedrummer

Swwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetttttttttttttttt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## dionicia

> Secondly.. I suggest everyone go to th' Jameco Electronics website ta order a catalog which 'as mounds o' booty fer builders. Th' connectors alone make it a world o' difference ta wirin' servos to the Cat5 cable.. pages 70-74 are pin(molex) plugs and connectors I be usin' to plug servos in, 'stead of solderin' 'em directly.. wishin' I'd found it 'fore I started th' build, wouldnt be strippin' it apart to put on th' connecters..


Any particular plugs and connectors you took a fancy to?


----------



## gym_ghost

All 192 invoices have been sent out as of this morning. If you sent me an order and did not get an invoice, be sure to email me at sales at graveyardmadness d o t com. Remember for those that have not ordered yet, and are a members of this board, be sure to get your order in by May 15, 2008 for the 15% discount. After that, there will be no more discounts. 

Long night and I am hitting the hay... goign to sleep like the dead!!!!

Joel


----------



## RBC

gym_ghost said:


> All 192 invoices have been sent out as of this morning. If you sent me an order and did not get an invoice, be sure to email me at sales at graveyardmadness d o t com. Remember for those that have not ordered yet, and are a members of this board, be sure to get your order in by May 15, 2008 for the 15% discount. After that, there will be no more discounts.
> 
> Long night and I am hitting the hay... goign to sleep like the dead!!!!
> 
> Joel


Thank you GG Rest In Peace,lol we love ya , you work so hard for us Thanks again
PS got your orded Will call it in tomorrow.


----------



## Specter

Can someone post close up pics of where the jaw mounts to the arm of the servo? I am using a ball/cap- got the ball ON the inside of the jaw- cap on the arm, but it just doesn't seem right.
Thanks!


----------



## RBC

Specter said:


> Can someone post close up pics of where the jaw mounts to the arm of the servo? I am using a ball/cap- got the ball ON the inside of the jaw- cap on the arm, but it just doesn't seem right.
> Thanks!


what kind of skull are you using lindberg or bucky?


----------



## Specter

Lindberg...

Also- a pic of the wiring coming off the SSC-32 to the Cat5 jack would be helpful...


----------



## RBC

Specter said:


> Lindberg...
> 
> Also- a pic of the wiring coming off the SSC-32 to the Cat5 jack would be helpful...


I can't take a pic right now my hubby has the camera and he is out of town.so i had to borrow this pic its is a bucky but on the lindberg skull put it as close to this point on the inside as you can..
The Jaw ball joint goes as follows:

Inside either side of the jaw depending on how you put the servo plate in











Captain jack will have to make you pic of the wiring Sorry


----------



## Specter

I talked to Jack- he explained the wiring for me. I'll let you know if I have more questions.
Thanks!'


----------



## RBC

Specter said:


> I talked to Jack- he explained the wiring for me. I'll let you know if I have more questions.
> Thanks!'


 Ok Cool I hope the pic I posted Helped sorry I can't help you with the wiring picture.. How is is coming along? are you almost done with that one?


----------



## Specter

well, if it all goes smooth, I'm finishing up wiring tonight, will power it up, and see if I did it right or not. Keep your bones crossed!!!


----------



## Specter

oh boy, soo many questions!

I am using a walwart to power this thing up. I'm really confused- been reading the thread over and over- still not getting it. My wallwart is 6v DC 2.0A max. Is that ok for the SSC-32 to run off of?

Also- I assume I plug this into the VL power inputs on the board- NOT the VS1 or VS2, right?

Lastly- I know that you need the 115k baud rate- how do I set the jumpers to do that? I see the ABCD and jumpers, and the + and - pins... how do I put the jumpers exactly?

Any other jumpers or things I need to do before I attempt the power up?

Man, any help you guys can give is VERY appreciated! 

OH- I am just using 4 servos right now (1 skull, lindberg, HS425BBs).
Thanks!


----------



## RBC

Specter said:


> oh boy, soo many questions!
> 
> I am using a walwart to power this thing up. I'm really confused- been reading the thread over and over- still not getting it. My wallwart is 6v DC 2.0A max. Is that ok for the SSC-32 to run off of?
> 
> Also- I assume I plug this into the VL power inputs on the board- NOT the VS1 or VS2, right?
> 
> Lastly- I know that you need the 115k baud rate- how do I set the jumpers to do that? I see the ABCD and jumpers, and the + and - pins... how do I put the jumpers exactly?
> 
> Any other jumpers or things I need to do before I attempt the power up?
> 
> Man, any help you guys can give is VERY appreciated!
> 
> OH- I am just using 4 servos right now (1 skull, lindberg, HS425BBs).
> Thanks!


 the power supply gets hook to the vs1 just dont cut any thing off the cord that looks like a covered battrie that is a power reducer.
I dont have a board at the momment to look at to tell you how to set the jumpers maybe CJS can help you there.

but the power supply cord has a positive side and a negitive side to the cord. feel the cord and the positive side has a ridge in it. and the negitive side is smooth make sure you hook it up the right way so you dont burn the board.


----------



## Abunai

Specter, 

I don't have the ssc-32 board (yet) so I can't say anything with any authority, but I did look at the user's manual, which I found here:

http://www.lynxmotion.com/images/data/ssc-32.pdf

It looks like vs-l is to power the board itself (logic), vs-1 is for servo power on servos 0-15, and vs-2 is for servo power on servos 16-32. 

It looks like there are two sets of baud rate jumpers/pins. For 115k baud, you would put jumpers on both sets of pins. 

Good luck. Get this thing finished, and post us some video!


----------



## RBC

Abunai said:


> Specter,
> 
> I don't have the ssc-32 board (yet) so I can't say anything with any authority, but I did look at the user's manual, which I found here:
> 
> http://www.lynxmotion.com/images/data/ssc-32.pdf
> 
> It looks like vs-l is to power the board itself (logic), vs-1 is for servo power on servos 0-15, and vs-2 is for servo power on servos 16-32.
> 
> It looks like there are two sets of baud rate jumpers/pins. For 115k baud, you would put jumpers on both sets of pins.
> 
> Good luck. Get this thing finished, and post us some video!


Thanks but my eye sight is so bad i cant read that so i have to hold the card under a magifying glass to look at it. May you guys can ask Jack he has used this board lots of times . i was using the paralex


----------



## Specter

Yeah-
Saw that manual, still don't understand it. My newborn is causing a big lack of sleep, so maybe my brain isn't fully functioning here, either! LOL.

Got the servos running off of 0-15 side. I DID test to make sure I had the polarity right. I read something about a 5V power supply and mine is 6- that's why I was worried about it. 

As for the jumpers- I just looked again, I see the pictures in the manual. I'll try that and see if it explodes or not. 

I think I need to re-wire the Cat5 jack again. I called Captain Jack about it- thought I understood, but it doesn't seem right. If you're using 4 servos, that's a total of 12 wires coming off the board. The cat5 jack only takes 8 wires. Up in the skull, I DO have all the power (+B) wires spliced together, as well as all the ground wires spliced together. I used Jack's color code system. However, wiring from the board (pigtails) to the jack is some confusion for me.

- I took 2 pigtails, and spliced the 2 powers (red) and 2 grounds (black) together into one wire (that's one red wire, one black wire). I did this again for the other 2 pigtails. So overall, I have 2 power wires going into the jack, and 2 ground wires going into the jack (using the color codes again). The yellow servo wires I went straight into the jack as per their respective color codes. Is this right?

Thanks again guys!!!


----------



## Specter

BTW- I picked up a 3 axis joystick from walmart today- will this work? Last I read you couldn't control more than 1 axis at a time... That's ok, as long as it works for me. 
Thanks


----------



## dionicia

Let me know how that turns out. I'm almost ready to get this party started.


----------



## Abunai

Specter said:


> BTW- I picked up a 3 axis joystick from walmart today- will this work? Last I read you couldn't control more than 1 axis at a time... That's ok, as long as it works for me.
> Thanks


Specter, 

The 3 axis joystick will work with a program called Parlay, written by our own EvilBob...let's you control all three axes and the jaw servo (with microphone input) at once. CptJackSparrow posted a link somewhere on this site. (Just search the posts for 'Parlay'.)

Also, as far as power to your board goes...I wouldn't worry about the voltage of your wal-wart if you are using the one blinky sent you. The input range that the board will accept is pretty lenient. A 6 volt wal-wart is not going to hurt it. 

My parallax board uses power from the USB port to power the logic (the board itself) then requires an external power supply for the servos. It looks like the lynxmotion board, since it is serial and not USB, requires external power for both the logic and the servos. Some of the jumpers look like they may be able to be set to power both from just one input, but I can't be sure without having worked with the board. 
You can probably hook the walwart up to VS1...then run two wires from VS1 to VSL (positive to positive and negative to negative)


----------



## RBC

here is a pic of the board showing where the jumpers are : READ THE MANUEL
on page 2 and 3 they tell how to set the jumpers and the jumpers come with the board.


----------



## Specter

ok, I'm pretty sure I got the jumpers figured out. Can someone explain the wiring from the board to the Cat5 Jack? See my earlier post on it...


----------



## RBC

Specter said:


> BTW- I picked up a 3 axis joystick from walmart today- will this work? Last I read you couldn't control more than 1 axis at a time... That's ok, as long as it works for me.
> Thanks



Evil Bob has quit a set up at his house we call him Bob Disney,lol
and he found a way to make the joy stick work 


Specter , I'm not trying to be mean by not giving you the answer right away because I want you to learn how to set the jumpers If I tell you you dont learn. If, You read you will figure it out if not I will tell you then..Don't hate me.


----------



## RBC

Specter said:


> ok, I'm pretty sure I got the jumpers figured out. Can someone explain the wiring from the board to the Cat5 Jack? See my earlier post on it...


OH Goody, What did you set the jumpers at?


----------



## Specter

They came already set at 115k...


----------



## Dr Morbius

Specter said:


> Yeah-
> Saw that manual, still don't understand it. My newborn is causing a big lack of sleep, so maybe my brain isn't fully functioning here, either! LOL.
> 
> Got the servos running off of 0-15 side. I DID test to make sure I had the polarity right. I read something about a 5V power supply and mine is 6- that's why I was worried about it.
> 
> As for the jumpers- I just looked again, I see the pictures in the manual. I'll try that and see if it explodes or not.
> 
> I think I need to re-wire the Cat5 jack again. I called Captain Jack about it- thought I understood, but it doesn't seem right. If you're using 4 servos, that's a total of 12 wires coming off the board. The cat5 jack only takes 8 wires. Up in the skull, I DO have all the power (+B) wires spliced together, as well as all the ground wires spliced together. I used Jack's color code system. However, wiring from the board (pigtails) to the jack is some confusion for me.
> 
> - I took 2 pigtails, and spliced the 2 powers (red) and 2 grounds (black) together into one wire (that's one red wire, one black wire). I did this again for the other 2 pigtails. So overall, I have 2 power wires going into the jack, and 2 ground wires going into the jack (using the color codes again). The yellow servo wires I went straight into the jack as per their respective color codes. Is this right?
> 
> Thanks again guys!!!


Yes, that sounds right, all the servos share the common power wires, so that's 4 wires, (2 wires twisted together for POS and 2 wires twisted together for NEG...Black and Red wires from ALL the servos connect to these together) then each yellow wire frome each servo gets it's own colored wire, that's the remaining 4 after the you use the twisted wires fro power, 4+4=8 wires, 4 servos and power.


----------



## Specter

The servos are moving! The servos are moving! 

hehe- got them in the LynxTerm program, got all 4 moving! I must have them wired right! Now, just gotta hook up the linkages, throw it in the skull, and go for a test!!! I'll post back when I can.

I'm soo excited...


----------



## RBC

Specter said:


> The servos are moving! The servos are moving!
> 
> hehe- got them in the LynxTerm program, got all 4 moving! I must have them wired right! Now, just gotta hook up the linkages, throw it in the skull, and go for a test!!! I'll post back when I can.
> 
> I'm soo excited...


LOl blinky does the happy dance...Don't have any accidents in your pants lol
we are proud of you !!!!


----------



## Abunai

Specter said:


> The servos are moving! The servos are moving!
> 
> hehe- got them in the LynxTerm program, got all 4 moving! I must have them wired right! Now, just gotta hook up the linkages, throw it in the skull, and go for a test!!! I'll post back when I can.
> 
> I'm soo excited...


Specter, 

Have you forgotten where you are? I believe the proper terminology on HalloweenForum is "IT'S ALIIIIIIIIIIVE!!!"

Well, maybe that will go over better when you have it all hooked up. 

Congrats, and post video.


----------



## RBC

I have heard a lot of members have been breaking their drill bits when drilling the threaded rod for this project. What is the best way to do this so this doesn't happen. Thanks Blinky


----------



## Toetag

Heres my 2 cents. I have only broken drill bits in the past when my bits are dull and too much pressure is applied and using no cutting oil.


----------



## Abunai

RBC said:


> I have heard a lot of members have been breaking their drill bits when drilling the threaded rod for this project. What is the best way to do this so this doesn't happen. Thanks Blinky


Buy a titanium drill bit. 

Use a drill press. 

Secure the threaded rod so it won't vibrate or move around (I drilled a hole in a scrap piece of 2/4 to hold the rod at the base.)

Drill only about 1/16 to 1/8 of an inch deep at a time, then back the bit out and let it spin free for a few seconds to cool (and let the rod cool too.)

I didn't use oil, but I'm sure it would help.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Aye lads!, slower an' slower! Sharps bits ye must be usin', small steps in drillin' depp.. no no no, not _Depp_.. D-E-P-T-H (oh, me apologeez). an' while I'd rather prefer rum.. oil, be it 3-in-one, or 30W, be good, an' drillin' small amounts at a time ta keep said sharp bit from heatin' said oil.. savvy??


----------



## gym_ghost

WOOT - they are alive... alive I tell you... as soon as we figure out how to post video (once again - server has to be configured for the extension type) I will be posting video of a completed animatronics skeleton with the Bucky 3-Axis Skull with arm and hand movement. And a preview of our new lighting system that will be rolled out later next month - it’s going to blow away anything out there!!! 

UPDATE ON THE KITS: We're going to be kitting the orders this week with the first "mailing" batches going out the 15th. We're only concentrated on members of this forum (46 of you). All together, we have received over +200 PAID orders. Daddy is going to Vegas (no, daddy is going to recoup out of pocket expenses). 

After the 27th of this month, Blinky (RBC) will be taking over all future part sales. 

The website for how to assembly these things will be up and running the 16th. 


Tired and Exhausted Joel.... its alive...its alive...


----------



## gym_ghost

Bolts/Hardware - keep in mind too; hardware from Hell Depot and Lowes mostly comes from China. China uses metal without the best controls - similar to rebar; just a whole lot of metal mixed together to come up with something. Sometimes the metal materials composition / structure are not an accurate mix and you can encounter hard spots in the bolt or threaded rod. This can break drills and taps. Basically, bolts from China and several other countries are fabricated from recycle metals. In some cases, metals of difference hardness are mixed in and not completely absorbed with the rest of the materials. Thus, you get hard spots. Rebar – very soft in some places and harder in orders to the point it kills the blade cutting it. 

Also, drilling such a small hole… and doing it by hand or drill press – I highly recommend you use cobalt. Do not use Harbor Freight HSS drills. These things are okay for wood, but not for metal. Nothing worse than having a drill break in a hole and binding!!!


Just my two cents!!!

joel


----------



## gym_ghost

And one more thing about drilling, make sure the part does not move, start of with a center drill. This will keep everything straight and prevent drill from wandering.

Drilling - use a heavy oil and keep steady pressure. About every 1/16th - 1/8th inch, pull out, and ease it back in there until you fill it cut again and then apply steady pressure.

Joel 


Joel


----------



## RBC

I want to Thank everyone for they helpful hints Love ya all Thanks


----------



## Lynn

Anxious to see the video Joel !!!


----------



## dionicia

I hope the stuff I'm buying from you doesn't need to be drilled Joel. I almost broke my nose last year with the cordless drill. I'm libel to kill myself with a drill press.


----------



## Specter

Hey guys-
I'm getting it all hooked up now. The big problem is alignment. Specifically, on the Nod motion. When it nods down, it actually moves down and to the left (when facing it). When it nods up, it goes up and to the right. 

I adjusted the linkage arms so that they're all perfectly centered- and that their lengths leave the center rod perfectly centered in all directions. But- the nod servo has a sideways motion to it.

When the arm on the servo swings, it's swinging in a circular motion. So for a small rang of motion (say, 15 degrees on either side of center) it moves fairly straight. However, it's the last 30 degrees or so on either side of center that it throws the nod to one side or the other. I can't figure out why- any suggestions?


----------



## wicc_ed

*Servo arc*



Specter said:


> Hey guys-
> I'm getting it all hooked up now. The big problem is alignment. Specifically, on the Nod motion. When it nods down, it actually moves down and to the left (when facing it). When it nods up, it goes up and to the right.
> 
> I adjusted the linkage arms so that they're all perfectly centered- and that their lengths leave the center rod perfectly centered in all directions. But- the nod servo has a sideways motion to it.
> 
> When the arm on the servo swings, it's swinging in a circular motion. So for a small rang of motion (say, 15 degrees on either side of center) it moves fairly straight. However, it's the last 30 degrees or so on either side of center that it throws the nod to one side or the other. I can't figure out why- any suggestions?


Try using different holes on the tilt servo arm I think that was the problem someone else was having.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Spectre, really glad ta see ya got yer macines runnin'.. I be naught findin' yer msg from Saturday evenin' til early Sunday mornin' an' I be thinkin' ye want me nigh callin' at 6:30am.. 

Dionicia, I'm markin' yer plates tonight, an be cuttin as many as I can tomorra' an' Wednesday. I be tryin' ta get them in the mail Wednesday so's ye can get ta buildin yer own black-hearted swabs..

Gym_Ghost, me be pleased as punched tha' ya finally got yer stuff goin' full speed an' dead-on course..

Blinky, got yer skull in th' mail t'day.. He be already occupyin' a place on me bench, is set ta 'ave 'is neck open'd wide wednesday, an th' rod fer 'is neck 'ready ta mount on th' plate...

'Tis nigh werd one from Brookshire, on makin' more VSA download slots available than the 30 fer the salty buckeneers 'ere. I proposed tha' the $10 discount be less, ta increase th' number o' people tha' ken get VSA.. as we got 'near 50+ needin it, so's a lil less discount fer mor swabs ta get it.. If they be honorable pirates (like thar be such a thing), $5 ta $7 'or $8 off fer 50-75 downloads be a good thing.. or en'ertain a standin' Forum discount fer those buildin' these numbskulls... if'n i 'ear an whisperin's from Brokshire, post it in VSA Buy thread I will.. Arrg!

'Off ta me dungeon ta mark said plexiglass plates an' make noise I will..


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Watch the nod linkage, what it be doin is rubbin on th' rotate link screw as 'es noddin' 'is 'ead down, an' tha' makes it turn left or right.. mine be doin' the same thin', an' it took bendin' down th' rotate arm(metal) to clear the nod link..



Specter said:


> Hey guys-
> I'm getting it all hooked up now. The big problem is alignment. Specifically, on the Nod motion. When it nods down, it actually moves down and to the left (when facing it). When it nods up, it goes up and to the right.
> 
> I adjusted the linkage arms so that they're all perfectly centered- and that their lengths leave the center rod perfectly centered in all directions. But- the nod servo has a sideways motion to it.
> 
> When the arm on the servo swings, it's swinging in a circular motion. So for a small rang of motion (say, 15 degrees on either side of center) it moves fairly straight. However, it's the last 30 degrees or so on either side of center that it throws the nod to one side or the other. I can't figure out why- any suggestions?


----------



## dionicia

I have to download a pirate translator.


----------



## Specter

Well, adjusted it to the closest hole I could. It's still not perfect- to be honest, the entire servo probably needs to be moved 1/16" over to center it out better. But for now, I think this might work- no one will know except me... 

Question on Parlay- it says it only supports the Mini-SSC32 board, and any other board may cause damage. I am using the SSC32 (not the mini). Also, I can't get it to work. LynxTerm works fine- but Parlay doesn't move my servos at all. It doesn't communicate with the board, it seems. The com and baud rates are set properly, too. I saw someone else ask this earlier- but I never saw a solution to it. Any help here?
Thanks!


----------



## Regor

dionicia said:


> I have to download a pirate translator.


Do you have a link to that translator?


----------



## Specter

yeah, Jack- that's not it. I just checked it out. The entire thing rotates a little bit, and none of the linkages are hitting anything. I really can't figure it out here.


----------



## wicc_ed

Hey Specter, Do you have a video cam? If you do, why not go ahead and tape this problem. It is a common one. That way when it is fixed a solution can be added.

As for the Parley Have you set your com port? What port were you using with the linx software?... Set the Parley to that com port. Also set your Baud rate to 115 (I think that what you said it was set to in an earlier post). And I believe that it has been modified by evil bob to work with the linx boards.


----------



## Specter

ok- another question.

In VSA- I have the port setting setup, baud rate, devices enabled. I drag on the 1st servo to create a bar- hit play, nothing happens. The light is on on my board. I put the settings to the SSC32 servo. Seems like it SHOULD be working- any ideas what I'm missing here?


----------



## Specter

Yeah, Wicc-
Tried that. Set it to Com port 4, baud 115k. I get nothing. I'm afraid to switch it to the SSC32 board setting as a warning pops up saying that it will damage the board. Ideas on either?
Thanks


----------



## Specter

ok- went ahead and turned on the servos in parlay- ignored the warning- that did it! It worked fine- moved the skull in real time!!! Still not sure on the VSA tho...


----------



## Specter

Is there a way in Parlay to set min/max values for your servos?
It's taking past the points I want it to go...


----------



## Crypt Keeper

RBC said:


> I have heard a lot of members have been breaking their drill bits when drilling the threaded rod for this project. What is the best way to do this so this doesn't happen. Thanks Blinky


Speed and wobble is the biggest problems

Don't get that drill going so fast, take your time

Make sure your pieces are secure and your drilling straight


The reason its hard to drill is that most threaded rod is hardened zinc and some drill bits are made from this material, its hard to cut the same material with the same material ! Like someone else suggested higher quality drill bits

I have a rather expensive set of drill bits, i think it was about 200dollars ( 70bits) and its lasted me forever. I stay very very far away from cheap bits as they normally cause more damage and are way less accurate in size, seriously!


----------



## Specter

Parlay-
has to be turned to Mini-SSC and click the servo's on checkbox for them to work in real time. Otherwise, it won't work. Also- it just crashed on my while I was trying out different settings. Odd. If I can set the min/max values so it doesn't wreck my setup, that'd be awesome. Gonna hook up the joystick next.


----------



## wicc_ed

*Vsa*



Specter said:


> ok- another question.
> 
> In VSA- I have the port setting setup, baud rate, devices enabled. I drag on the 1st servo to create a bar- hit play, nothing happens. The light is on on my board. I put the settings to the SSC32 servo. Seems like it SHOULD be working- any ideas what I'm missing here?


Ok in VSA, when you drag an event onto a servo, you have to then set the start and stop points.

Easier way.... along the right side of the screen you will see a bunch of icons. at the bottom of these you will see a red dot with a play symbol. This is the capture button. 

I think I remember you saying that you bought a joystick. plug it in!
Now click the capture button, then select a servo, then play with the joystick. I used a control pad, and I have to hold a button down to activate the movement.

Another thing to check out is did you set up your servos? Press F3 (I think) and you will have to select the servo, Max Left and Max Right points the com that its connected to.
Hope that helps.


----------



## wicc_ed

On the Right side of Parley, about 1/3 the way down you will see the servo limits boxes


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

A single bar by itself wont move the servo, ye be needin two bars, one ta move it to th' position ya want, and the second to move it back... double-click on the first bar ya created lad, an' look at th' positions, startin' an' stoppin'... th' positions need ta be different... say.. startin' 1500, and stoppin 1020 (or somethin' ta tha' effect)... then dbl-click on th' secon' bar, and th' startin' position shud 'ready be 1020... dbl-click on the stoppin' position an' make it 1700... 

When ya say ya put th' settin's fer the SSC32 servo, did ya set the speed(115k) and com port right? Did ya save it as th' defualt settins' (lil hammer at bottom left corner) ? Everythin' move like it shud with LynxTerm jus' nigh with VSA? Then lad, it jus be a com port or speed settin in VSA.. Plus, ye canna be havin' LynxTerm AND VSA open together, tha' be the com port conflict. Ye must close LynxTerm ta run VSA..



Specter said:


> ok- another question.
> 
> In VSA- I have the port setting setup, baud rate, devices enabled. I drag on the 1st servo to create a bar- hit play, nothing happens. The light is on on my board. I put the settings to the SSC32 servo. Seems like it SHOULD be working- any ideas what I'm missing here?


----------



## Specter

yeah, Jack. That helps- didn't know how that worked. However, still getting NO response to my servos when I play it back. Do you have a sample file I could open up and see if it works on mine?

Again, works great in Term, getting nothing in VSA. And yes, nothing else is open except VSA. I don't get it.


----------



## Specter

ok, I got it now. Grrrr... I'm getting tired- somehow I DIDN'T have the Com port setup. I did earlier- I dunno, I'm tired. LOL...


----------



## Specter

oh man, using a joystick ROCKS compared to any other method!!! I haven't tried it in Parlay yet- but just doing 1 axis at a time in VSA TOTALLY rocks!!!


----------



## Specter

well, I'm posting a TON of questions- hoping to solve them, and, help others out as they come across the same problems...

Has anyone had a problem with the linkages not holding well? I've had linkages pull apart twice tonight- like the hole gets stripped out or something. I know that sounds like it's not lined up correctly, but I can tell you it's as centered as possible. Anyone else have this problem on theirs?
Thanks


----------



## RBC

Specter said:


> well, I'm posting a TON of questions- hoping to solve them, and, help others out as they come across the same problems...
> 
> Has anyone had a problem with the linkages not holding well? I've had linkages pull apart twice tonight- like the hole gets stripped out or something. I know that sounds like it's not lined up correctly, but I can tell you it's as centered as possible. Anyone else have this problem on theirs?
> Thanks


What size connector and rods are you using. are they the same size. cant say I have heard of anyone having this problem Unscrew them and drop a tad of superglue on the rod end and put them but together. This may help.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Spectre, if th' links be pullin apart, then ye be nigh 'avin' enough thread in th' link. Ye be needin *at least 1/2" *into each link. Do not use superglue as th' touch of it will make it lock where it touches together an' ye be nigh able to screw it together enough. Just use a 1" thread rod, screw at least 1/2" into each end. I be off tomorrow if ye want to come by an' lok at what I've got..


----------



## wicc_ed

.


Specter said:


> well, I'm posting a TON of questions- hoping to solve them, and, help others out as they come across the same problems...
> 
> Has anyone had a problem with the linkages not holding well? I've had linkages pull apart twice tonight- like the hole gets stripped out or something. I know that sounds like it's not lined up correctly, but I can tell you it's as centered as possible. Anyone else have this problem on theirs?
> Thanks


How long is the rod that you have in the link? Perhaps you cut them too short, and this is why they are pulling out.


----------



## RBC

I want to thank Halloween Bob for the recurring nightmares I have been having of Kay Star singing over and over in my head for the last 4 days . My Grson saw you skellie trio singing and now that is all he plays on the computer. But the funny part of the whole thing is he is telling me how to do the skull plate and servos and he grabbed the threaded rod and was showing his Mom. this is where this goes and this is where that goes...etc. oh did I tell you he is only 3..Madame X said he spends to much time over here making Monsters with me,lol

Don't worry EB he still plays your too.lol


----------



## RBC

CaptnJackSparrow said:


> Spectre, if th' links be pullin apart, then ye be nigh 'avin' enough thread in th' link. Ye be needin *at least 1/2" *into each link. Do not use superglue as th' touch of it will make it lock where it touches together an' ye be nigh able to screw it together enough. Just use a 1" thread rod, screw at least 1/2" into each end. I be off tomorrow if ye want to come by an' lok at what I've got..


well it worked for me lol but ok. Captain


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Aye, seems if ya use tha' glue, they bond where they touch an' ya cant screw 'em in 'fore they freeze.. everytime me fingers be glued togetha usin' superglue, an' me crew 'as ta pull me 'ands apart.. 'tis nigh pretty..


----------



## Toetag

For the ones using the bucky skulls what servos are you using?


----------



## dadgonemad

I'm going to be building a bucky. Under Gym_Ghost's advice, I'm using 645s. I got them on eBay for $25.99 each + shipping. 

I'm still waiting for my kit, and I have a bunch of other components to buy yet. But I have the servos!

-dgm


----------



## Toetag

what rotation?


----------



## Toetag

Does the ssc-32 controller have to be hooked up to the computer all the time or just once to program the controller?


----------



## thedudedrummer

Yep, its not like the Prop 1.. etc... The SSC-32 and Parallax servo controllers have to be hooked up to the computer at all times. They just translate the signal, not store it. Brookshire sells an RAPU if you want to go computerless... but its 300 (including a copy of vsa) and you still need your servo controller on top of this.


----------



## Dr Morbius

It stays hooked to the computer. you need the computer to store and play VSA and your soundtrack too.


----------



## Toetag

Can Vixen controll the ssc-32 controller?


----------



## Dr Morbius

No........


----------



## dadgonemad

Toetag said:


> what rotation?


I would assume 90-degree clockwise as that's the stock standard. I haven't tried it yet, tho.

-dgm


----------



## guitarist155

i ended up having to scrap building my 3 axis this year due to other hobbies and school hopefully it will get done in time for next year


----------



## dionicia

Maybe the build process will get cheaper in time G. On a good note, next Halloween 2009 is on a Saturday.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

I got me a CD with some terrific pirate songs while at Disney last week... made a routine with me 3 pals...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV22v94zrTs


----------



## thedudedrummer

wow looking good the captin! with a bit of fine tuning that will be amazing!


----------



## thedudedrummer

its a great cd btw. I was thinkin about using about half the songs on there before I ran outta time last year and just did the muppets one.


----------



## wicc_ed

Wow! And your going to have what 16 or 18 of these going? Seems like it might be alot of conversation going on at once. (unless you have a big yard. But worse it seems like you better get programming now just to get it done in time lol.


----------



## Pumpkinprincess

I'm just blown away with this technique, but I don't see any information about how well they weather the outside. What if it is raining?


----------



## RBC

guitarist155 said:


> i ended up having to scrap building my 3 axis this year due to other hobbies and school hopefully it will get done in time for next year


I'm so sorry to hear that maybe nest year you can make it then.


----------



## RBC

Pumpkinprincess said:


> I'm just blown away with this technique, but I don't see any information about how well they weather the outside. What if it is raining?


alot of the people corpse them after they are done so the latex over the head or by patting move-able masks on them prevent the weather from getting to the motors they hold but quite well.
the only problem you might have is they wonder in the night by them self or with help you would have to make sure they are chained down some how


----------



## RBC

Hey CJS Great song Love it that was so cool


----------



## gym_ghost

Folks,
First orders are going out today... we received over 300 orders for these kits WOW. It has brought my shop down to a crawl with invoicing and such. But no worries!!!

Also, some freebies we sent out Monday came back to us with not enough postage. I did not realize until yesterday that postal fees went up. No worries. They will be going with today’s mail.

Also, for those of you building our kits: I have received a few emails and phone calls about how to assemble them with regard to the rotate linkage; the questions asked - that it interferes with the bracket - hitting it as it rotate. First, our bracket should allow about .03” clearance when it rotates. 

Some of you have sent pictures and we did notice the servo arm is not at the right alignment. When asked if you can extend the linkage, 50% of said you can’t. So, we went back to the shop and played around for a few hours and came up with a solution: 

To make it work we highly recommend you move the rotate linkage to the front, and not to the rear - nearest to the bracket. See attached picture. In some cases, you might have to rotate the servo 180 degrees. 











If this is not possible because of programming / routines already completed (as several of you stated) we will be including two rotate linkages. See attached drawing. We will not be charging for these - but they will be mailed out early next week. This will give you the ability to either go rear or front with the rotation arm, and yet, provide enough clearance regardless of the rotation and length of linkage. 
http://www.graveyardmadness.com/Props/3axis_Skull/DWG_34-011_X1.pdf

Sorry for the mishap and confusion, but this should solve the problems with interference, linkage lengths, and programming. 

Thanks
Joel Briggs

http://www.graveyardmadness.com/Props/3axis_Skull/DWG_34-011_X1.pdf

http://www.graveyardmadness.com/Props/3axis_Skull/rotate_1.jpg


----------



## dadgonemad

Great pic! That explains a lot and will totally help with the assembly. Looking forward to receiving my kit!!!

-dgm


----------



## keepsmiling

Howdy
Does it matter what brand of servo's you use and will the ssc controler work with digital or whatever types?
thanks


----------



## Regor

Hi all,
Can anyone tell me if a basic run of the mill USB to Serial cable will work with the SSC32. I know that some controllers, such as the Prop 1, have proprietary adapters. I just want to make sure before I order a cable. Thanks.


----------



## RBC

I 'm running only 1 prop this year and this is How I was told to do it by CJS
serial cable from computer to the controller, then Cat5 cable from the
controller to the skull. I cut the pigtail off each servo, about 6" long, and
soldered each to a wire pair of the cat5 cable, so it plugs right into the
controller. Then soldered the other end of the Cat5 cable to remaining
pigtail still on the servo.

so to answer your question yes ,they will worlk . if you dont know how to do cat5 you can get ready made extention cables drop me a pm.Hugs


----------



## RBC

1-48” standard-duty extensions are great for micro servos up to standard size digital servos. They offer 24awg wire and come with gold plated connectors. These come directly from our own manufacturing facility for the highest quality for $6.95


1- 48” super-duty extensions are perfect for standard servos up to 1/4 scale and digital servos. They offer 22awg twisted wire, gold plated connectors and thick wire jackets. Twisted wire cuts down on electrical interference. These come directly from our own manufacturing facility for the highest quality.for $7.95


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Aye 'mate, search eBay fer "USB to RS232 adapter", ye will find many at $6. In th' Lynx manual it be sayin' "connect with serial cable or USB ta Serial be workin fine" It be what I usin' on me higher-end laptop with no serial port.. an' it be fine. When ye installs the cable ye 'ave ta go inta Control Panel, System, Device Mgr, Ports and set th' Com port of th cable ta one not used, or change th' others. I made me cable address Com1 by changin th' others..

Capt. Jack



Regor said:


> Hi all,
> Can anyone tell me if a basic run of the mill USB to Serial cable will work with the SSC32. I know that some controllers, such as the Prop 1, have proprietary adapters. I just want to make sure before I order a cable. Thanks.


----------



## fravak

I'm using two Belkin USB -> Serial adapters to SV203 controllers to CAT-5 cable to the skulls. I am running VSA on a WIndows XP laptop that doesn't have a serial port. 

Like Capt. Jack said, you may have to go to the device manager and set the correct COM port for the adapter.


----------



## dionicia

I like the Capt'n idea of connecting the CAT5 using Molex to the controller. Seems safer.


----------



## guitarist155

wow i had not kept up with this thread and didn't realize a kit was being made, this makes me very happy as i was worried about spending alot on trial and error for this project


----------



## Specter

Hey guys-
I'm having trouble getting Parlay to work using the SSC32. Has anyone figured this out? Seems like hte servos only work when selecting the MiniSSC- but then the servo settings are all wrong. I get the error message about it damaging hte board, etc etc. Any clues on this?
Thanks


----------



## Evil Bob

It only works with the mini ssc or the SSC-32 in mini ssc mode. But then, I only have the SSC-32 and I only use it in mini ssc mode. You don't have to have servos hooked up to use parlay. you can export the data to VSA.


----------



## Specter

Right. I want to use it with SSC32 and the joystick. But, I need to put the settings (min/max) in there for it to work right and not over exert the servos/prop. But it won't let me. I want it to work in real time so I can see what I'm doing, while I'm doing it. Any ideas here?


----------



## Specter

Yeah, when I try to set the servo limits- it give me an error- 'invalid property value '380' and then it closes the program...


----------



## Evil Bob

It only runs the servos real time when you have mini ssc button selected. you can set the upper and lower limits with the servo limit boxes on the right.


----------



## Evil Bob

Oops. I haven't seen that one



Specter said:


> Yeah, when I try to set the servo limits- it give me an error- 'invalid property value '380' and then it closes the program...


----------



## Specter

Hey Wicc_Ed (or anyone else for that matter)
Switching over to VSA... using the joystick, when I program the mouth movements to the audio- I have to move left/right while holding the button. Is there a way to orientate the joystick so that it's up/down instead? I know I can turn the thing, but it's more comfortable the normal way, especially while holding the button down. 

OR- if anyone has a better suggestion for how to program the mouth movements? I guess I could record a separate audio file of me *cough cough* singing the words, then do a WaveMotion Analysis on THAT file- get the captured event, then try to line up the REAL audio to it? What's the easiest way to do this?


----------



## Specter

I might start another Thread for these types of questions. We're into software questions, and it doesn't quite fit this thread... or does it?


----------



## wicc_ed

Specter, I had the same problem with the joystick. But I just delt with the sideways movement. After a few times it becomes second nature. 
Before I realized about the capture function I tried the wave analysis with me singing, and then loaded the original back in. It was close but I could tell the difference. This is what made me so happy that the capture was available.

But if your feeling realy ambitous, you could probably take the joystick apart and rewire it... however it wouldnt do you much good if you tried to use it for games.


----------



## Specter

No, don't have time for games, that's for sure! I'd rather use Parlay, as it's all axis at the same time, as per the joystick. But I'm having issues with Parlay...


----------



## Regor

RBC said:


> I 'm running only 1 prop this year and this is How I was told to do it by CJS
> serial cable from computer to the controller, then Cat5 cable from the
> controller to the skull. I cut the pigtail off each servo, about 6" long, and
> soldered each to a wire pair of the cat5 cable, so it plugs right into the
> controller. Then soldered the other end of the Cat5 cable to remaining
> pigtail still on the servo.
> 
> so to answer your question yes ,they will worlk . if you dont know how to do cat5 you can get ready made extention cables drop me a pm.Hugs


Thanks Blinky, I'm needing to get from my serial "portless" laptop to the controller. I think I understand the Cat5 to the servos.



CaptnJackSparrow said:


> Aye 'mate, search eBay fer "USB to RS232 adapter", ye will find many at $6. In th' Lynx manual it be sayin' "connect with serial cable or USB ta Serial be workin fine" It be what I usin' on me higher-end laptop with no serial port.. an' it be fine. When ye installs the cable ye 'ave ta go inta Control Panel, System, Device Mgr, Ports and set th' Com port of th cable ta one not used, or change th' others. I made me cable address Com1 by changin th' others..
> 
> Capt. Jack


Appreciate it Captn, Thats what I thought but I wanted to consult the experts first. Hmm, USB to serial at Radio Shack - $35.00 -, Ebay - $6.00. Gotta love the internet.



fravak said:


> I'm using two Belkin USB -> Serial adapters to SV203 controllers to CAT-5 cable to the skulls. I am running VSA on a WIndows XP laptop that doesn't have a serial port.
> 
> Like Capt. Jack said, you may have to go to the device manager and set the correct COM port for the adapter.


Thank ya fravak. More good information.


----------



## Abunai

evilbob said:


> It only works with the mini ssc or the SSC-32 in mini ssc mode. But then, I only have the SSC-32 and I only use it in mini ssc mode. You don't have to have servos hooked up to use parlay. you can export the data to VSA.


Can you explain the "mini ssc" mode, please. 
I just got my hands on the SSC-32 board, and I am not seeing any reference to mini ssc mode in the manual.


----------



## Abunai

Specter said:


> Yeah, when I try to set the servo limits- it give me an error- 'invalid property value '380' and then it closes the program...


254 is the max value for the mini-ssc servo controller. 380 would be out of bounds.


----------



## Toetag

On the ssc-32 on the board where it says VL what do i put there a 9 volt battery? and on the VS1 terminal i put the wallwart? I was reading the manual but im getting a little confused...


----------



## Evil Bob

Abunai said:


> Can you explain the "mini ssc" mode, please.
> I just got my hands on the SSC-32 board, and I am not seeing any reference to mini ssc mode in the manual.



You can run the SSC-32 with the same commands as the MiniSSC-II. You don't have to set any jumpers.


----------



## Evil Bob

Abunai said:


> 254 is the max value for the mini-ssc servo controller. 380 would be out of bounds.


Yeah. What Abunai said, lol. I guess that it crashed because I didn't have error checking when on that part of the code.


----------



## gym_ghost

GOOD NEWS - All 312 orders are shipping out this morning! We got the new armature part in yesterday and installed them on the axis arm. For those receiving rejected materials, we included the armature at no cost.

For those still wanting to order, please email me at [email protected]. 

Our inventory level is at solid 300 Lindberg Kits and 125 Buckys.

Thanks
Joel Briggs


----------



## HalloweenBob

Be careful on the SSC-32 board! I am also not in front of my board, but seem to recall that the board itself will run off of 5vdc to 9vdc, but the servos need either 5vdc or 6vdc.

I think if you hook up 9vdc and run everything off that, you will burn up servos that are not designed for 9VDC.

If your DC voltage source is 5VDC or 6VDC or somewhere inbetween, there should not be a problem linking all the jumpers together and running just one power source ASSUMING that the power source provides enough current to run the number of servos you are using.

Don't hook up a 300ma wallwart and expect it to run the board and 20 servos. Get something that has at least a couple of amps output.

If you are just running 3 or 4 servos, you don't need as much.

Double check the specs on the voltage requirements for the SSC-32 AND the servos first. I am doing this from memory.

BTW, that is Good News Gym Ghost!!!!


----------



## HalloweenBob

I have confirmed my suspisions.

DO NOT run the board AND servos all off the same supply unless you are using a 6VDC supply with plenty of current available. At least a couple amps if you are running multiple servos.

If you connect a 9VDC supply to the VL (or logic) input to the board, that is fine for the board, but if you leave the jumper on that says VL=VS you will burn up your servos.

You can remove that jumper, connect 9VDC to the VL and 5 or 6VDC to the VS and you will be fine. You can also leave the VL=VS jumper on, AND leave the VS1+VS2 jumper on and run the whole thing off 6VDC (with enough amperage)

5 VDC is NOT recommended for VL. It might work, but it is really at the lowest limit and you may experience board resets and problems, Run the VL at a minimum of 6VDC and no more than 9VDC.

I hope that clears up any questions.


----------



## Toetag

I have a 6vdc 2 amp wallwart comming with the board. Im so confused now.....


----------



## gym_ghost

WOOT - I just got a call from Craig - All 312 packages are on there way!!! A majority of you will be a getting a few dollars back for over paid postage. For those that paid by paypal, we will refund the overpayment to your paypal account - give us a week. Those that paid by check, it will take about two weeks to get the checks out to you.

Enjoy the kits and please post pictures. 

Thanks
Joel Briggs


----------



## dionicia

Wow. You sold a lot. Great job.

If you don't mind me asking, how many were bucky and how many were lindberg?


----------



## gym_ghost

Yeah, I am having 3-skull axis twitches... I am so glad I dont have to see a 3 aixs skull until Tuesday of next week...

I AM IN NEW YORK... today and tomorrow and then back home, only to head out the door again heading up to Death Valley (near the Charlie Manson camp) for some R&R. I swear, if I come across a skeleton out there... .AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


Joel (finally relaxing)


----------



## dionicia

If you're trying to relax, why are you checking on here talking shop?

Silly, there's plenty of time for that when you get back.

By then everyone should have their stuff and driving you CRAZY with questions.


----------



## Abunai

I don't want to give bad information to anyone. 

One of my previous posts said that one could use from 5vdc to 9vdc to power servos. It looks like I was incorrect, and that voltages above 6vdc can damage the servos. 

Can someone tell me how to go about editing that post so that I'm not the cause of someone burning up their servos? (I'm not seeing the "edit" button at the bottom, right corner of that post.)

Thanks for calling me on this, HB.


----------



## dionicia

You should see an edit button on the bottom right side of any post you have made. Unfortunately it appears to only works on the page that is currently active.


----------



## RBC

Abunai said:


> I don't want to give bad information to anyone.
> 
> One of my previous posts said that one could use from 5vdc to 9vdc to power servos. It looks like I was incorrect, and that voltages above 6vdc can damage the servos.
> 
> Can someone tell me how to go about editing that post so that I'm not the cause of someone burning up their servos? (I'm not seeing the "edit" button at the bottom, right corner of that post.)
> 
> Thanks for calling me on this, HB.


 or you could ask larry to delete the post . Give him the thread name and post #.


----------



## larry

For reference, the best thing to do if you need action on a post or thread is to use the REPORT POST function. (the ! on each post).

Then just comment on why something needs attention.

Thanks.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

*Hitec 425BB current requirements: *

_NO LOAD (idling current, just sitting there),_ 8ma; 
_UNDER LOAD (moving)_ 150ma, so running 4 servos, you need at a least 5-6vdc, 600ma wallwart, thats th' minimum requirement, at least 1amp would be wot I would run mine at, with 2amp wallwart even better.

What I'm going using: a computer power supply to run the servos. Most supplies provide regulated 5dv, at up to 20amps, so you could run up to twenty-plus, 4-servo skulls. I picked up a 200watt supply fer $18. I connect an extension cord to the supply's 5volt output, run that across the yard to my pirate ship where abt 12 pirates will be (abt 48 servos), and not worry abt current loading. My single pirates will be powered by single 6v, 2.5-3.7amp wallwarts (have several) so no worries there either. Again, each Hitec 425BB under load requires 150milliamps, so each 4-servo skull should be run by at least a 5-6vdc, 600milliamp wallwart.

Hope those numbers help ya figure if yer currently, under-current 

Capt. Jack


----------



## Dr Morbius

I run everything from a computer power supply. That way I never have to worry about current. BTW, Capt. Jack, where did you pick up a power supply for 18 bucks?


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

I got mine from a local computer store. Ye can pick up one jus 'bout any computer store.. doesnt 'ave ta be a new one, or some 700w model.. anythin 140-200watt be plenty!


----------



## Evil Bob

I got a 200W one for $20 from newegg.com


----------



## willettfx

Well ,Ive been doing some research on this RC Head Tracking System
And its cool ! Wow!!! a waldo system .
2 Axis is out and 3 axis is coming soon
Some cool video shots
Head Tracking System Calibration video 
YouTube - Head Tracking System Calibration

YouTube - HEAD MOUNT DE RC-TECH
this could move your skull with the right servos
hope this helps 

Gary


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

6volt, 2amps.. yer good 'mate..



Toetag said:


> I have a 6vdc 2 amp wallwart comming with the board. Im so confused now.....


----------



## dionicia

I just got my order from Joel (aka Gym Ghost). He is so cool. He even included some plate rejects. He rocks.


----------



## guitarist155

willettfx said:


> Well ,Ive been doing some research on this RC Head Tracking System
> And its cool ! Wow!!! a waldo system .
> 2 Axis is out and 3 axis is coming soon
> Some cool video shots
> Head Tracking System Calibration video
> YouTube - Head Tracking System Calibration
> 
> YouTube - HEAD MOUNT DE RC-TECH
> this could move your skull with the right servos
> hope this helps
> 
> Gary


that is such a sweet system i can just imagine being able to look around while flying an rc plane that would be amazing, and using that for real time control of a 3-axis would be sweet. down side is the module alone is $390.00 and if you don't have a good radio it's about another $400-500. dang now that i have seen this i want one though


----------



## gym_ghost

For those that ordered kits.... I received a few emails that the instruction URL page not working. I just got off the phone with our IT consultant and he is looking into it. He suspects we may have an IP conflict once again. He said he needs one day to fix it. I will keep you posted!

Joel


----------



## dionicia

I am going to be attaching some of the skulls to blucky bodies. Does anyone know the best way to do this?


----------



## RBC

dionicia said:


> I am going to be attaching some of the skulls to blucky bodies. Does anyone know the best way to do this?


MHO: would be to use PVC pipe to pose them . then you would use a straight 1/2" connector and a end cap with a hole in the cap to put to brain stem in. crank it down with a lock nut and washer and there you have it see my tutorial website for pics


----------



## buckaneerbabe

dionicia said:


> I am going to be attaching some of the skulls to blucky bodies. Does anyone know the best way to do this?


There are as many ways to attach as there are buckys out there. 1st and maybe the easiest is using a coupler. You'll need to get one the sizes of the bucky rod, 5/16 and the size of your rod end. This looks look a long nut and you simply screw it onto both rod ends. You'll just have use lock tight to the bottom portion so it doesn't unscrew itself off. Or I found that by grinding down the threads on my rods to get a flat surface and attaching them with small hose clamps worked good too. But watch out if you do grind down the threads as there were sparks flying everywhere, yea I know I'm scary with power tools!


----------



## RBC

buckaneerbabe said:


> There are as many ways to attach as there are buckys out there. 1st and maybe the easiest is using a coupler. You'll need to get one the sizes of the bucky rod, 5/16 and the size of your rod end. This looks look a long nut and you simply screw it onto both rod ends. You'll just have use lock tight to the bottom portion so it doesn't unscrew itself off. Or I found that by grinding down the threads on my rods to get a flat surface and attaching them with small hose clamps worked good too. But watch out if you do grind down the threads as there were sparks flying everywhere, yea I know I'm scary with power tools!


 I believe she said Blucky but That is ok, I sell the couplers on my website Click on the blue flame skull on The main page to see all the things you will need to make the numbskulls* Thanks BB


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

I be takin' a block o' wood, shapin' it ta slip inta th' neck. Drill a 1/4" hole in th' center, slidin th' neck rod down init, 1/4" nut on each side ta lock the rod inta th' block, slidin' th' block inta th blucky's neck. Drive small deck screws inta th' wood, anchorin' it around th' neck 'round th' wood.


----------



## skullboy

Can you please repeat that in English?


----------



## buckaneerbabe

RBC said:


> I believe she said Blucky but That is ok, I sell the couplers on my website Click on the blue flame skull on The main page to see all the things you will need to make the numbskulls* Thanks BB


Oops!! I guess we're all guilty of that one at least once in our lives.


----------



## dionicia

I don't blame you Skullboy. I have to say it out loud to figure out what he wrote. 

Hey, Capt'n. Got any pics for the foreign language how-to?


----------



## gym_ghost

UPDATE ON INSTRUCTIONS: We found the problem and will have it fix Tuesday (hopefully). We did in fact have an IP conflict. My IT geek is going to obtain a static IP and do something - he said this will rid our system of all problems. I have no idea what he is talking about. Just in case it does not work, I plan to mail out the instructions.

Joel


----------



## dionicia

Why not scan it and email it to everyone who purchased the kit. Save yourself on postage.

It's getting to where you have to take out a loan to buy a stamp. Jeeze!


----------



## gym_ghost

DOH!!!! What a great idea dionicia!!! Let me do that now... 

On another subject - I think we have a possessed 3-axis skull here at the shop! Last week twice and tonight, it started up by itself doing its own thing... the funny thing is - we moved it to another board and computer this evening, but yet, it still goes off by itself... freaky!!! 

I hate to think what will happen when we attach it to is skeleton frame tomorrow and all the animatronic hardware that goes with it!!!!

Time to call for an exorcist!!

Joel


----------



## Toetag

On this wallwart http://www.lynxmotion.com/images/Products/Full/l5wp01.jpg Which wire is positive? Or does it matter when hooking up to the ssc-32?


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

I took a block of wood, shaped it to fit the neck of the blucky, drilled a 1/4" hole in it. Inserted the rod, backed two 1/4" nuts on each side of the rod to secure it tight on the block. Inserted the block into the blucky's neck, ran several 1/2 to 3/4" deck screws thru the plastic neck into the block to secure it.

You can do the same with a 1 1/2 PVC pipe. Take abt 12" of 1 1/2" PVC, take a 1 1/2" PVC cap, drill 1/4" hole on the end of the cap. Insert yer rod, back 1/4" nuts to tighten the rod onto the cap. Insert the cap into the pvc pipe, secure it with a couple sheet metal screws. Insert pvc opipe into the blucky neck, secure that with a couple sheet metal or deck screws. Run a couple screws from the back(spine) of the blucky to keep the "neck" from wobbling with movement.

==========================================================

As for the wallwart, cut the plug off the cable, strip the jacket off, abt 2" or so. If there's a red/black pair, red's positive, black's negative. If they are both the same color _*use a voltmeter. *_You *REALLY *need a voltmeter to positively ID the positive wire. If you wire it backwards you WILL blow the board, and any servos plugged into it. Quick way ta shoot $35.


----------



## Regor

The plug should have a symbol on it indicating either center positve (example below) or center negative. If you are going to cut the plug off, just put a meter on the wires to check the polarity.

View attachment 1170


Center Positive.
Indicates that the center (tip) of the output plug is Positive (+) and the barrel of the output plug is Negative (-).


----------



## wicc_ed

*skeleton frame*



gym_ghost said:


> DOH!!!! What a great idea dionicia!!! Let me do that now...
> 
> On another subject - I think we have a possessed 3-axis skull here at the shop! Last week twice and tonight, it started up by itself doing its own thing... the funny thing is - we moved it to another board and computer this evening, but yet, it still goes off by itself... freaky!!!
> 
> I hate to think what will happen when we attach it to is skeleton frame tomorrow and all the animatronic hardware that goes with it!!!!
> 
> Time to call for an exorcist!!
> 
> Joel


I have been anxiously waiting to see this animated body... when do you think you will post pics and info on ordering?
Thanks


----------



## RBC

Positive wires on eletronic item have a ridge and the Neg side is smooth that is also one way to tell if you don't have a meter.
It does matter if you hook it up wrong you will burn the board or hurt the servos


----------



## RBC

dionicia said:


> I don't blame you Skullboy. I have to say it out loud to figure out what he wrote.
> 
> Hey, Capt'n. Got any pics for the foreign language how-to?


Maybe this will help you out, I don't know if you were planning to posing him but..
Fitting The Blucky with PVC
then instead of using a Blucky head use your skull attached this way








using a straight connector and a end cap just drill a hole into the cap and and use lock washers and nuts to hold it. This is how I'm going to do Dead Fred.


----------



## gym_ghost

KIT INSTRUCTIONS

IP issues resolve. Instruction link is up and running!

Sorry for the delay. 

Joel


----------



## gym_ghost

The animated body is staying under wraps for awhile. We hope to have something out sometime in July. 

Joel


----------



## Toetag

Gym_Ghost Curious if you sale just the plexi plate for the bucky skull and whats the price on that? 

Thanks


----------



## sledge

Hi guys
How much 2 -56 or 4-40 threaded rod is required per skull? I see that McMasters sells by lengths or precut lots. Which is better?
Thanks Sledge


----------



## gym_ghost

With the Lindberg using 2-56 linkage 3/4" to 1" long (per link arm) (3"max). The Bucky using 4-40 / 2-56 linkage 1" to 1 1/2" long (per link arm) (4" max). Keep in mind, that is with our plates and achieving center alignment with the servos never extending beyond a 60 degrees limit in either direction. 

HINT: I recommend you purchase the 36" length. Pick up a 2-56 die to chase the threads. Have a good pair of sharp wire cutters to cut the lengths you need. And trust me when I say this: when you need it, it wont be there. When you have it, the job is much easier. 

HINT HINT: We're working on animatronic hands. We will be posting pictures of how this is done sometime late in June or early July. If interesting in building a pair, it will take two microservos, and about 16" of 2-25 thread rod. The effect of this is unreal and very spooky. We have it so the hand can fist, and the index or middle finger (thanks Craig and John) can extend out and move back and fourth. 


Joel


----------



## Regor

Gym_ghost, Are you still taking orders on kits/parts ? If so, how do we place an order, the email link at graveyardmadness wasn't working for me. 
Thanks
Roger


----------



## sledge

Thanks Joel The hands sound very cool indeed so we best all get very busy with the skulls so we can get to the hands. Thanks again!


----------



## sledge

Hi

Just one more question. Does it matter if it is steel, brass or stainless?


----------



## gym_ghost

Yes, we are still taking orders for the skull kits. Regrettably, the 15% discount is no longer offered. Please send all inquires to [email protected]. Shortly we will be posting a shopping cart page to order these parts directly. 

Thanks
Joel


----------



## RBC

wow Gym hands now How Cool.. Thanks for helping answer sledge question can wait to see the hands,lol What taking so long,lol J/K you. Hugs

sledge brass is softer so order stainless steel rods


----------



## RBC

Regor said:


> Gym_ghost, Are you still taking orders on kits/parts ? If so, how do we place an order, the email link at graveyardmadness wasn't working for me.
> Thanks
> Roger


I to will be selling Gym's kits on my website


----------



## gym_ghost

Material wise I highly recommend you stay with steel. Any steel will work. Brass is okay, but I would use it as a last resort. 

Joel


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

All those who paid, yer links went out in the mail yesterday morning, 

Dionoicia (plates, servos & links)
Regor
DadGoneMad
MrOct31
Sledge
Gym_Ghost

I got Abunai's payment, so I'm droppin yer package in the mail this morning. They all went with insurance (going ta be standard to protect/recover th' cost of the items).

I have to order more servos (abt 28 -425's) and links, both 2-56 and 4-40's this morning.. Anyone on this morning need more?

Capt. Jack


----------



## gym_ghost

RBC will be selling all of our kits effective June 23. We're trying to close out orders and those that have email me to date. After June 11, we will no longer be taking orders. We will be referring them to RBC to place orders. 

Thanks, 
Joel


----------



## RBC

Captain i need you call me


----------



## gym_ghost

I will start a new thread on the hand. I just spoke with the other partner and we will release some photos and video later next week. This is for one hand: 4th class bucky hand, 2 HS-55, about 16" of 2-56 thread rod, 4 torsion springs (180 degrees) and 1 torsion springs (360 degrees), 8 nylon 1/8" bushing, and 20 lb fishing line. To build one will take about 3 hours from start to finish. One hour to assembly, two hours to adjust everything.

Joel


----------



## RBC

CaptnJackSparrow said:


> All those who paid, yer links went out in the mail yesterday morning,
> 
> Dionoicia (plates, servos & links)
> Regor
> DadGoneMad
> MrOct31
> Sledge
> Gym_Ghost
> 
> I got Abunai's payment, so I'm droppin yer package in the mail this morning. They all went with insurance (going ta be standard to protect/recover th' cost of the items).
> 
> I have to order more servos (abt 28 -425's) and links, both 2-56 and 4-40's this morning.. Anyone on this morning need more?
> 
> Capt. Jack


ywsz check on Futaba mini eye servos for me,the #s3115 Please cost? i will be needing 11 Thanks


----------



## gym_ghost

Okay folks, I have received a few calls regarding not being able to get the skull center of gravity right??? 

It is imperative that you have the center axis rod aligned to the skull base hole prior to modifying it or opening it up (if you must modify it ) - see picture! The center hole on the servo plate should aligned with the base skull hole. If it does not, then adjust to the skull base hole - do not modify the base hole to be center to the axis rod. A few Lindberg molds are not true to center . They could be off as much as a ¼” in any direction – based on the mold. Once everything is aligned, the axis rod should be center to the servo plate and the skull base hole. Also, do not open the skull base hole any bigger than it needs to be. It should only be rounded off to allow clearance of the rod axis not to hit based on the limits of the program. A couple of suggestions: I highly recommend you hard adjust the TILT servo arm 10 degrees of centerline toward the back of the skull. This will allow the servo to brake on its self. And if you’re still getting servo tilt toward the front with the servos energized, there is a bigger issue and has nothing to do with weight. Check your servos and make sure they are not worn out or have broken teeth. The 425 when energized easily handles the weight of the skull in any position. 









. 

And this brings up another issue I was trying to avoid. Programming: adjust the limits on the program so the axis rod does not fully extend to any one direction. There is no reason to max out the limits. You’re only going to cause pre-wear on the servos and stress on the other components. My suggestion is to write a simple program with NOD, TILT and ROTATE at small increments. Then start the process of extending them out until you reach the limits of the hardware (skull, servos, linkage, axis rod, etc.) My advice to you is move your head (NOD, TILT, and ROTATE) and mimic that to the skull. 

Also, do not use a 425 servo to move the jaw up and down. Its extra weight and extra money you do not need to spend. Use a micro 55 or something similar to move the jaw. Keep the jaw hinge loose. Adding springs and other whichmycallits only hamper the ability for the servo to work for the jaw. 

I am going to post a simple program that moves the skull using all three axises – later today. There will be no support for this program. I am doing it as a member and contributor to this forum. What you do with the program from there is your own business. 

Those that purchased product from me – we will continue to support you with assembling of the hardware. Regrettably, we cannot assist you with programming issues. 

SOME GOOD NEWS: I spoke with the other partner and we decided to have a work shop at our shop in San Bernardino, California. This work shop will be for the 3-axis skull. It is tentatively scheduled for July 12. The workshop will cover the basics of building your skull, adjusting for center of gravity and linkage, adding moving eyes, and writing generic scripts using VSA. This work shop will be open to all on this forum and hauntforum.com only. The workshop will be free. You will be responsible for purchasing the kits, hardware or bringing your own (Lindberg or Bucky). We will have enough hardware to on hand to build 50 complete working 3 axis skulls, or you can bring your own. We figure the workshop will last a good 8 hours. We will also be providing lunch. Again, this will only be open to members of this board and hauntforum.com. Stay tune for additional information and how to sign up.

Thanks
Joel


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Aye, servos be ordered, futaba 3115's be $16/ea.. was nigh listed on th' invoice? I be expectin' th' servos ta make landfall Thursday. I return ta port 'bout 1pm, so's I be makin me way to Franks ta retrieve'em when I makes landfall, box'em ta go out.. 



RBC said:


> ywsz check on Futaba mini eye servos for me,the #s3115 Please cost? i will be needing 11 Thanks


----------



## RBC

wow Joel you sure do stay busy,lol that sounds so cool 


captain I worry about you sometimes down in those island,lol all the women to side track you.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Invoice be sent again, ta the uniquefaces addy... callin Dubro now..


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

On deck ye scabberous dogs.. made up a music page I did fer Pirate-born music an' sounds.. http://www.slavjane.org/halloween/PiratesMusicList.html. Be thar a multitude of music, sound bytes an' couple .vsa routines made fer me crew... servo limits be 'bout 1000 to 1800 usin' SSC-32 servo. Right click on any o' th' links, choose "Save As: " an saves it ta whar ye wants.. sames fer th' .vsa routines. Th' .vsa audio file be th' song tha' goes with th' title... ye needs ta save both ta run th' routine.

BEFORE ya run yer skulls usin' these routines, check yer movement limits so's ye dont possibly bend yer links.. If'n yer limits be GREATER(more) than the 1000 to 1800 ye be safe. If'n yer limits be LESS THAN 1000 ta 1800 (say's 1200 ta 1600), then go in an change th' limits in MY routine ta yer limits!!!

Capt. Jack


----------



## sledge

Great Link Captain Jack that must of taken you awhile. Thanks for doing it!
Sledge


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Nay 'mate, was nigh long ta do.. 'twas longer uploadin' th' files than makin' said page.. feel free ta use wit' reckless abandon..

Capt. Jack


----------



## Dr Morbius

OMG Have you guys tried macros yet!? They sound intimidating they did to me which is why I never tried them, then I remembered HalloweenBob used them for switching VSA routines..So I Downloaded a demo of Advanced Key and Mouse Recorder, an application that converts your keystrokes into macros automatically. This is a must have if you want to switch between VSA routines on the cheap. I got AutoHotKey, which is open source (FREE) but I haven't been ablr to get the recorder that comes bundled with it to work yet. I guess it's worth it though to learn it...I like FREE! Has anyone used AutoHOtKEy to make macros for VSA yet? Any advice on how to use the recorder? Anyways, I'll upload a screen vid of CaptnJacks routines so you guys know what I'm talking about so you can see what macros can do. I know alot of you guys already use them, but I just discovered them and I'm excited about them..can't you tell? HarrHarrrrrrrrr.....


----------



## Dr Morbius

Yo, Captn'! Some 'O yer chanties be nigh on the dowload. Me thinks they've walked th' plank!


----------



## Dr Morbius

Ok, here is the video of the Macro working. I know, it's a crappy capture. Sorry, but it does give you an idea of what happens when it's running. When you see the yellow iconed window in the lower right corner of the VSA screen, that's the macro software running. It's all hands off from there, the hotkeys are running AUTOMATICALLY with no intefernce from me. I have two of CAptn Jacks routines windows tiled one on top of the other. The keys are hitting the Window and Exection command on the top menu of VSA and is toggling between routines, pausing, stopping, playing between markers and so on. I know this is old news to the macro-heads out there, but I hope it helps those not familiar with them to start using macros as a way to automate VSA.


----------



## thedudedrummer

wait wait wait! What RRRR u doing? Im confused


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Dr. Mo, fix th' links I did, walk th' plank I made those scurvy songs do, an' name them right too sez I.. so's now they be oll good 'n true, an ganged by 'genre, so's ta speak..

merged a couple songs tagether I did, a cheap an' taudry version of yer macros, taggin' one song after 'nother ta make more uninterupted carrousin' by me scallywags.. guessin it be th' same'... 'stead o' 6 single songs/routines, mergin' them does make 2 or 3 longer ones ta play.. upon my return(Saturday) I intent ta do mor mergin' an' drinkin my pukin' guts out o'er these songs, postin' em 'ere too fer oll ta see an use savvy? 

Until my return Saturday, steer straight an' true, steady course an oll tha rot..

Capt. Jack


----------



## wicc_ed

DD imagine if you will...
A group enters, and your VSA begins playing Skull #1's routine. The group watches, when the routine ends (or stops), they move on around the corner where Skull #2 is located. You need to start a different routine for that skull. The Macro will automatically start it for you. Then when it is done, and they move on to skull#3 that routine will start. Now say your exit is right by your enterance, Skull one can now switch to a goodbye routine. You never have to stop handing out the candy to run your routines. 
Does this help?


----------



## Dr Morbius

CaptnJackSparrow said:


> Dr. Mo, fix th' links I did, walk th' plank I made those scurvy songs do, an' name them right too sez I.. so's now they be oll good 'n true, an ganged by 'genre, so's ta speak..
> 
> merged a couple songs tagether I did, a cheap an' taudry version of yer macros, taggin' one song after 'nother ta make more uninterupted carrousin' by me scallywags.. guessin it be th' same'... 'stead o' 6 single songs/routines, mergin' them does make 2 or 3 longer ones ta play.. upon my return(Saturday) I intent ta do mor mergin' an' drinkin my pukin' guts out o'er these songs, postin' em 'ere too fer oll ta see an use savvy?
> 
> Until my return Saturday, steer straight an' true, steady course an oll tha rot..
> 
> Capt. Jack


Aye Capt..I saavy your words fer I didst the same 'afore I unburied the treasure Macro. 'Tis anuther asunder, and I bestow upon you the map to salvation....Follow it true, for on the 21st day ye be converted in the ways of our Crew Macro....X marks the spot, laddy. Do not let yer fears desway ye.


----------



## Dr Morbius

thedudedrummer said:


> wait wait wait! What RRRR u doing? Im confused


Real simple. I used a program called a macro recorder. All it does really is record the key stroke I make while using a program, in this case VSA, then I just play it back like a tape recorder and all the commands I used play back automatically. Couldn't be easier!


----------



## Dr Morbius

CaptnJackSparrow said:


> Dr. Mo, fix th' links I did, walk th' plank I made those scurvy songs do, an' name them right too sez I.. so's now they be oll good 'n true, an ganged by 'genre, so's ta speak..
> 
> merged a couple songs tagether I did, a cheap an' taudry version of yer macros, taggin' one song after 'nother ta make more uninterupted carrousin' by me scallywags.. guessin it be th' same'... 'stead o' 6 single songs/routines, mergin' them does make 2 or 3 longer ones ta play.. upon my return(Saturday) I intent ta do mor mergin' an' drinkin my pukin' guts out o'er these songs, postin' em 'ere too fer oll ta see an use savvy?
> 
> Until my return Saturday, steer straight an' true, steady course an oll tha rot..
> 
> Capt. Jack


Oh one thing you want to consider Capt...The longer your routine and the more songs you add the greater the chance your VSA routine will lag, due to the large amount of memory it needs to hold all the info. If your computer is doing nothing else and you have a good bit of memory you should be OK though, but you'll have no control over which routine will play, it'll just play in one long sequence. Remember, there are free macro recorders out there, AutoHot key being one of them.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Aye 'mate, did folla th' map, an' find th' swag I did, unearthed th' booty, an' it resides on me Desktop. Thank you I do 'mate... To the East I go in th' morrow, th' Capitol City, whar thar be bush, an lush greenery.. Domed structures,an tall monuments does find me thar, for nigh long, bu' long enough ta explore th' wonderment o' Macro'corders 

Memory, it 'as lots, least 1gig, an runnin nothin else it does bu' VSA. Next week be findin me loadin' long audio files to test out its latentcy. Post me findings I shall too..

'til then.. I am off to me Capt'ns cabin an' th' rack.. for th' alarm be raised at 4:15.. ugh.. uh, I mean... Arrrg!

Capt. Jack


----------



## Dr Morbius

LOL! Have fun man.


----------



## thedudedrummer

lol well I picked up an exorcist last year so I guess it all works out the same


----------



## guitarist155

ok i need some information from anyone who can help. I am getting ready to order a lindberg skull kit from gym ghost and it says it does not include servo rod ends, caps or rods. i am wondering other than the skull itself and electronics, servos etc. what parts i need to order. i will be using hitech 425bb's or the like as my servos. i am also wondering where is a good place to get the lindberg skull.

thanks.


----------



## RBC

thedudedrummer said:


> lol well I picked up an exorcist last year so I guess it all works out the same



Do you need some Holy Water too.?lol

Good going Doc but it may be better to show the skulls singing for those that need a visual and then the routine used. IMHO


----------



## RBC

guitarist155 said:


> ok i need some information from anyone who can help. I am getting ready to order a lindberg skull kit from gym ghost and it says it does not include servo rod ends, caps or rods. i am wondering other than the skull itself and electronics, servos etc. what parts i need to order. i will be using hitech 425bb's or the like as my servos. i am also wondering where is a good place to get the lindberg skull.
> 
> thanks.


we have been running a group buy for all things on my website.Just click my banner once on the main page click the blue flame skull and it will take you to all the sale pages you need.Hugs Blinky


----------



## HalloweenBob

In addition to the servo group buy page, you will need this to get your skulls:

Rock Bottom Cemetery - Lindberg Skulls Sales

Also, you will need the servo linkages. I recommend these:

2-56x3/16" Mini

But if you want something a little larger, go with these:

4-40x3/16" Standard

They also sell the matching threaded rod on that site, although you can get longer ones for less at McMaster-Carr.


----------



## gym_ghost

I do want to add a quick note: thanks to many of you for your pictures and video of our kits... when they are assembled and working... but it would be beneficial to all here if you post them here. Some of your pictures are unreal and scary!!!!

Joel 

P.S. I will be selling another lot of fully assembled lindberg skulls used for prototype builds on the forsale section. All money for these sales will go toward "Freedom Is Not Free."


----------



## jimmyzdc

Captn...on your routines which device #'s go with what servos. I was testing out my skull with your routine but I'm not sure if your devices match how my servos are plugged into the Lynx.

Thanks!


----------



## guitarist155

blinky. is there a group buy on the lindberg skull? i can't seem to find one


----------



## HalloweenBob

Rock Bottom Cemetery - Lindberg Skulls Sales


----------



## wicc_ed

H-Bob... so tell us, have you figured out a way to animate the bones in the basement without getting into trouble?


----------



## HalloweenBob

I'm working on that. I'll let you know.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

'ello 'mate,

My channels be organized:

channel 0: Jaw 1
channel 1: Tilt 1
channel 2: Rotate 1
channel 3: Nod 1
channel 4: Jaw 2
channel 5: Tilt 2
channel 6: Rotate 2
channel 7: Nod 2
channel 8: Jaw 3
channel 9: Tilt 3
channel 10: Rotate 3
channel 11: Nod 3.. an' so on..

Capt. Jack



jimmyzdc said:


> Captn...on your routines which device #'s go with what servos. I was testing out my skull with your routine but I'm not sure if your devices match how my servos are plugged into the Lynx.
> 
> Thanks!


----------



## jimmyzdc

CaptnJackSparrow said:


> 'ello 'mate,
> 
> My channels be organized:
> 
> channel 0: Jaw 1
> channel 1: Tilt 1
> channel 2: Rotate 1
> channel 3: Nod 1
> channel 4: Jaw 2
> channel 5: Tilt 2
> channel 6: Rotate 2
> channel 7: Nod 2
> channel 8: Jaw 3
> channel 9: Tilt 3
> channel 10: Rotate 3
> channel 11: Nod 3.. an' so on..
> 
> Capt. Jack


Perfect! No wonder my skull was making all sorts of weird movements!


----------



## dionicia

I have a strange question. Where does the wallwart go?


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Ya runs th' wallwart's wires into th' Lynx board.. me thinks th' VS or VS1 screw-down contacts.. cont rememba without th' book, luv..


----------



## RBC

dionicia said:


> I have a strange question. Where does the wallwart go?


Thats ok cause we have strange answers,lol
click my numbskull* link below my banner and you will see the tutorial that the Captain and I wrote. and it has pics if you are using a SSC32 board


----------



## dionicia

Don't tell me I gotta get a book now too!


----------



## RBC

dionicia said:


> Don't tell me I gotta get a book now too!


No sweety he meant the manual that comes with it that thing no one reads,lol


----------



## Dr Morbius

This thread is as long as a book.


----------



## dionicia

Tell me about it Doc. 

I got as far as "Caution! Don't do this if you don't know what you're doing."

I think the instructions on your website need to be dummed down a bit more Blinky. I'm feeling real De De De right now.


----------



## 1jimbeam

*older verison of vsa*

Capt. Jack,
When I try one of your routines, I get this error message:


This routine was created using an older version of VSA.
The Routine will be updated to the current version when saved.

I cannot get it to open with a wave file in the wave view area of vsa. And I get no sound at all. If I try to save it in vsa. The program completely shuts down.


What can I try to resolve this?
Jim Beam


----------



## Dr Morbius

1jimbeam said:


> Capt. Jack,
> When I try one of your routines, I get this error message:
> 
> 
> This routine was created using an older version of VSA.
> The Routine will be updated to the current version when saved.
> 
> I cannot get it to open with a wave file in the wave view area of vsa. And I get no sound at all. If I try to save it in vsa. The program completely shuts down.
> 
> 
> What can I try to resolve this?
> Jim Beam


This happened to me too. What I did was convert the wav file to Mp3. Load just the VSA file, get the "...will convert when saved" messege, then load the mp3 file seperatly. Save the whole routine, then when you reload it should work. There must be some conflict between the different VSA versions when WAVS are used.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Hmmm, thats interesting.. as me version is 3.100. Wot version be yers 'mates? I got mine back in October..

Also, th' .wav versions of th' songs tha' were on me Prop music page be now .mp3 versions.. so's ye ken get tha' version ta make it a shorter download. 

I'm off to Cancun an' otha exotic ports o' call this mornin' I return ta port th' morrow's eve, an' as such, bein' in a foreign land, 'ave no internet available ta me.. until Saturday night then..

Capt. Jack


----------



## guitarist155

what is everyone using as a jaw servo?


----------



## 1jimbeam

*jaw servo*

hitec 55 mini servo you can even buy a sideways servo mount for it


Jim


----------



## RBC

guitarist155 said:


> what is everyone using as a jaw servo?


Hey sweety Captain Jack is handling the servos buys there is a group sale thread for them he can get you what you need and he will send you a invoice for it.


----------



## jimmyzdc

What is everyone using to connect their jaw servos to the jaw? I was thinking about using a piece of coat hanger. Also can someone post a a couple of pix on where they drilled the holes on a Lindberg to run the wire for the jaw?

Thanks!


----------



## HalloweenBob

I used a piece of welding wire. I got it from my friend with the machine shop, so I don't know the exact diameter, but it was thinner than coathanger wire and easier to bend into the holes on the servo arm.

If anyone that works with welding wire can recommend a good one, that would be helpful. I know it came from McMaster-Carr


----------



## guitarist155

i was planing on just using servo rod and ball joints or ball joints and flexible servo cable.


----------



## sledge

Hey halloween Bob
You are the Guttenberg of the talking skull the head Bone Daddy guru. I have been working on my skull all day with pre-made parts and crying like a little girl. I am amazed at what you did from scratch. My hats off to you.
sledge


----------



## dionicia

Here is a picture of 3 of my four prisoners. 

I painted them with acrylic paint with an overcoat of glow in the dark paint.

Only one of them is about ready to talk his butt off. I decided to get a power jack to plug my wallwart into because I didn't want to cut into it.

I'll need to paint the bluckies the same way. Thank goodness I have time (I hope).


----------



## guitarist155

alright i just got done with my proof of concept for my 2 axis eyes, they will be linked together and use two micro servos and a gimbal design. the best part is i can make them as small as i like 
and place the servos where i have room with servo cable linked to the eye mechanism. here is a vid 

this is just a proof of concept the real version will use an eye with transparent iris and dmx leds


----------



## RBC

jimmyzdc said:


> What is everyone using to connect their jaw servos to the jaw? I was thinking about using a piece of coat hanger. Also can someone post a a couple of pix on where they drilled the holes on a Lindberg to run the wire for the jaw?
> 
> Thanks!


Most have been using cap and ball joints for the linkage see my tutorial


----------



## wicc_ed

guitarist155 said:


> alright i just got done with my proof of concept for my 2 axis eyes, they will be linked together and use two micro servos and a gimbal design. the best part is i can make them as small as i like
> and place the servos where i have room with servo cable linked to the eye mechanism.
> this is just a proof of concept the real version will use an eye with transparent iris and dmx leds



Not to bust your bubble, but will your 'outer ring' fit into the eye socket easy enough and allow your eye movement? 
The eyes that I have required dremeling out the eye socket, and I still didnt have enough room. So I ended up with just ended up with left right movement








.


----------



## Abunai

jimmyzdc said:


> What is everyone using to connect their jaw servos to the jaw? I was thinking about using a piece of coat hanger. Also can someone post a a couple of pix on where they drilled the holes on a Lindberg to run the wire for the jaw?
> 
> Thanks!


I'm using the metal wire from a utility marking flag. It's more narrow than a wire hanger, but it's strong and holds its shape well. Tough to bend.


----------



## dionicia

jimmyzdc said:


> What is everyone using to connect their jaw servos to the jaw? I was thinking about using a piece of coat hanger. Also can someone post a a couple of pix on where they drilled the holes on a Lindberg to run the wire for the jaw?
> 
> Thanks!


I used wire from Home Depot that is is used for rebar. It's easy to work with and strong. The only down side is it's greasy so you will need to wear gloves and wipe it off a bit unless you're cool with the grease. I plan on using it for my FCG aswell. 

Here are a few pics of the hole I drilled in Harvey. I hope you can see them ok.


----------



## guitarist155

i do not have any of my skull parts to work with yet so i can't know for sure, but the way it is designed i can make a metal or or pvc gimbal and have it be ultra thin so that it is just bigger than the eye itself that mockup was larger than scale as it was a 1inch pvc pipe and a rubber ball i had lying around . i also have multiple backup plans to where i would only need a slit in the eye socket to get the same movement. i will post my findings once i have time to play with it in the skull. i am determined to have 2 axis eyes 

either way it is a fun build to do and i might use it in something else


----------



## dionicia

Here is a better pic of the jaw wire.


----------



## RBC

wicc_ed said:


> Not to bust your bubble, but will your 'outer ring' fit into the eye socket easy enough and allow your eye movement?
> The eyes that I have required dremeling out the eye socket, and I still didnt have enough room. So I ended up with just ended up with left right movement
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Loved you song you picked that was a good One. and the video of your work Thanks for sharing but I could hardly see the eyes move because the video was so dark. But its looking good Glad you got one working,Hugs to you


----------



## gym_ghost

GRAVEYARDMADNESS.COM domain is transferring. For the next 72 hours, I will not be able to receive or send email. During this period, please use the message function here on this forum. I apologize for this. 

Thanks
Joel Briggs


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

If ya has a local hobby shop, th' .072" (or .078", cont remember which) wire be werkin' fine, an' be less than $1. Coat hanger is nigh stiff enough ta not bend a way ya doesnt want... I be usin' tha' on my sjkulls. Blinky an' a few others be usin' th' ball socket links(which came in while I was sailin th' Seven Seas), I be gettin' them out ta 'er Monday.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

HalloweenBob.. 'mate, when ya did yer servos, did ya set each servo ta its midpoint or did ya set th'e servos ta th' smallest settin' and "open" from there? I did install my servo arms when each was in it's midpoint.. ...defaulted each ta th' middle, then mounted it's arm ta th' shaft, allowin' equal travel in both directions. Did I then realize, fer.. say th' jaw servo, if it be set closed at th' smallest settin' (say full CCW), it'd open ta larger numbers oll th' time. Wonderin' if it be makin any differance..

ex:
Jaw1 Max: 1700 (_jaw wide open_) Min:250 (_jaw closed_) Default: 250 (_jaw closed_)
Tilt1 Max: 2000(_full right_) Min: 500(_full left_) Default: 1250(_midpoint_)

At this moment, oll of me servos be set ta their midpoints, an' go back 'n forth from thar.

Capt. Jack


----------



## HalloweenBob

I set all mine at the midpoint EXCEPT the jaw servo.

That one I set at the lowest setting and made that the default for "Mouth Closed".


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Aye, tha' be wot I thot, thanks 'mate..


----------



## sledge

*VSA trouble*

Has anyone had a problem with the VSA settings page? I am trying to set the port for a skull routine and it won't give me a com port setting?? the only options are none or LPT1. I have gone through the troubleshooting guide but this issue is not addressed.
Sledge


----------



## gym_ghost

graveyardmadness.com is still down and will be for the next week. This domain name transfer has become a nightmare!!! Complaining here: we have three domain companies involved with this transfer. One saying we need an authorization code, another saying no, and yet, another saying we have froze the domain name from being transferred over for 60 days. Ugggg... In the mean time, if you would like to order product or have any questions, please email me at joel_briggs at verizon dot com.

Thanks,
Joel


----------



## Dr Morbius

sledge said:


> Has anyone had a problem with the VSA settings page? I am trying to set the port for a skull routine and it won't give me a com port setting?? the only options are none or LPT1. I have gone through the troubleshooting guide but this issue is not addressed.
> Sledge


Are you using a USB Servo controller? If so, you need to download the USB drivers for it. If not, COM1 should com up if you are using a regular serial port card like a minissc or SSC32. You may need drivers for that too if it doesn't show. Or maybe you need to make sure there is power going to the card, or it won't be recognized by the computer. Come to think of it, COM1 shouls show in VSA settings no matte what, if your computer has a standard serial port. What are you using?


----------



## Phoenix

Make sure you plug your devices in before starting VSA, VSA will not recognise devices that are plugged in after VSA is started.


----------



## guitarist155

has anyone tried using servo savers in their skulls i am getting ready to place an order and was wondering if they fit here is the link Great Planes Spring Over Ride Servo Saver


----------



## sledge

Thanks guys it was the drivers


----------



## Dark Hawke

*Problems talking to SSC-32, com port problems?*

I finally got a serial 9 pin to USB cable. Tried to get the SCC-32 to talk to the PC and am having problems. 
I was talking to Lynxmotion support and they say it's a bad cable or I'm not using the correct com port. 
I seem to remember talk about making adjustments to a com port to have it recognize the board. I can't find that info. Can anyone direct me to find this info. 
Thanks


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

If ye be usin' th USB ta Serial adapter, couple things ta check if'n yer nigh gettin' it ta be recognized, or work..

1. If ye 'as th' drivers, follow th' instructions wit' th' adapter fer loadin th' drivers. Usually ya must load th' drivers first.. tha' is.. put in th' CD, install, then plug in th' adapter.

2. If ya dint get a CD(or drivers) with th' adapter, go back ta th' webpage, or place ya got it, an see if'n thar be a link ta th' driver page. If'n thar be no drivers thar, ask th' seller. If 'e be a scurvy dawg, an' nigh 'elpful, *AFTER* ye run 'im thru, 'ere be *USB to Serial drivers**.* Ya shud be able ta find somethin' tha' works.

3. If'n ye did oll tha' an it still be nigh werkin', go to(fer XP):
_*Control Panel, System, Hardware tab, Device Manager, Ports... *_an check ta see if it shows up thar. Ye may 'ave ta change th' port ta one nigh in use.. but' less than COM 5(I thinks) as VSA only goes up ta COM4. 'ope tha be 'elpin' mates..

Capt Jack


----------



## Phoenix

CaptnJackSparrow said:


> Ye may 'ave ta change th' port ta one nigh in use.. but' less than COM 5(I thinks) as VSA only goes up ta COM4. 'ope tha be 'elpin' mates..



This is incorrect, I've seen and used COM addresses up to 20 in VSA, however from memory I think there is a problem beyond 20.


----------



## RBC

Dark Hawke said:


> I finally got a serial 9 pin to USB cable. Tried to get the SCC-32 to talk to the PC and am having problems.
> I was talking to Lynxmotion support and they say it's a bad cable or I'm not using the correct com port.
> I seem to remember talk about making adjustments to a com port to have it recognize the board. I can't find that info. Can anyone direct me to find this info.
> Thanks


for windows system= plug your card into the computer and then turn your system on.

go to control panel then system them hardware configuration,you'll see it under ports
VSA will work with the card but the computer will not see it.If, you have the right port the servos will work.

You Change the ports through VSA by changing the card in the software

If you dont have the right port it will give you a run time error.



I hope this has helped


----------



## Dark Hawke

I now believe that my problem is that i don't have a driver for my HL-340 cable. I have tried various source found via Google, but am just can't get the driver installed.
any suggestions would be greatly appreciated
thanks!


----------



## gym_ghost

Two of our laptops have the port at 21. Make sure the jumpers are set right, the baud rights are matching. It took us about 20 minutes one time to sync everything together. Just double check everything. 

Good Luck,
Joel


----------



## Phoenix

The bottom line here is, the COM port control in VSA sucks, Jerry had no end of support issues over this very problem, and it gets exponentially worst the more COM ports you use.

This is another reason why using the Enttec DMX is so much better, its a native USB device, not a COM device and VSA automatically identifies the DMX converter regardless of which USB port you connect it to. so it makes it possible to ship a completed skull to a customer and for it to be truly plug-n-play, and not plug, screw about with the COM ports and hope it plays like you get when using COM devices.


----------



## dionicia

Can someone take a picture of what the jumpers are supposed to look like? I don't understand how we are supposed to adjust the jumpers. Where the jumpers are indicated on the how-to on Blinkies site and what the manual says appear to be two different things.

Thank you.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Everyone look at th manual. Title page. Shows a picture of the board. In th' center of th board is th long logic chip. Jus above that is a silver oblong can. To the right is the jumper field, pins and two jumpers. If the pins are on the first two sets of pins that are labeled BAUD, th board comes from Lynxmotion with 115K already enabled. 

Slide down to page 3. Bottom right image, labeled: Baud rate 115.2k
for PC use, again, first two jumpers set th rate to 115K.


----------



## dionicia

Oh. Whew! I'm glad I double checked that. 

As soon as my laptop is done defragging, I can try out the skull I just finished.


----------



## RBC

dionicia said:


> Can someone take a picture of what the jumpers are supposed to look like? I don't understand how we are supposed to adjust the jumpers. Where the jumpers are indicated on the how-to on Blinkies site and what the manual says appear to be two different things.
> 
> Thank you.



I didn't realize I had the wrong pic in the wrong place on the tutorial I'm sorry here are the jumper locations I will fix my tutorial Thanks for pointing it out Hugs


----------



## dionicia

So what is that thing the dot in the other picture is pointing at for???


----------



## guitarist155

dionicia said:


> So what is that thing the dot in the other picture is pointing at for???


looks like a 8pin slot to add another chip to add on options


----------



## RBC

dionicia said:


> So what is that thing the dot in the other picture is pointing at for???


LOL good question I will have to open someones SSC32 board and look at the manual I not using that board for my props I'm using a COW maybe The Captain can tell you.


Redmond I opened your SSC32 board to look at the manual 

it is a expansion socket for add ons Its called a EEPROM socket


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

The picture show th' jumpers set fer 115K baud rate, bu' tha's not important, wots important is tha the SAME rate be set in VSA.


----------



## dionicia

I am getting ready to run one of the skulls and I want to make sure the power jack is wired correctly.

I included a picture of the wiring I have done so far. I hot glued around the wire (as I had the soldering iron) as I want to be able to re-wire if I need to. I want to make sure it's wired right so I don't burn out my controller. 

Any thoughts, comments, concerns?

Oh and don't mind the hot glue on the sides. I was just filling in a hole.

Thank you.


----------



## RBC

dionicia said:


> I am getting ready to run one of the skulls and I want to make sure the power jack is wired correctly.
> 
> I included a picture of the wiring I have done so far. I hot glued around the wire (as I had the soldering iron) as I want to be able to re-wire if I need to. I want to make sure it's wired right so I don't burn out my controller.
> 
> Any thoughts, comments, concerns?
> 
> Oh and don't mind the hot glue on the sides. I was just filling in a hole.
> 
> Thank you.


Since there is not enough in the picture to trace back to the correct wires I can't tell if you have it wired correctly, if the Captain was helping you then I will leave the answer to him,maybe he can tell


----------



## HalloweenBob

I have a couple concerns...


1. Did you say that you hot glued the wires to the contacts INSTEAD of soldering them??

If so, that will be a big problem. If the hot glue is just over the solder connection, then that's fine.

2. The other concern is that it appears you have connected the black wire to the tip part of the jack.



Conventional wiring is that Black is the Ground, or Negative and the Red wire would be your 5VDC, or 6VDC, whichever you are using. It is also most common that the shield part of any plug or jack is the negative, and the tip is almost always positive.

That is not the case 100 percent of the time, but it is most of the time.

So, if your black wire IS indeed the ground, and the red wire really IS the positive, and you have really wired the ground to the tip and the positive to the shield, it is probably backwards.

The other thing is we can't see where the wires come from or where they go, so there isn't anything absolute that I can say about the wiring because I can't see those other parts.

Just from what you have shown, it APPEARS to be wired backwards, but I can't tell for sure without seeing more.


----------



## dionicia

Here is a better picture. I just removed the hot glue and switched the wires around.

There is also a prong at the front that I left alone. The other two prongs have holes in them.


----------



## RBC

> The other thing is we can't see where the wires come from or where they go, so there isn't anything absolute that I can say about the wiring because I can't see those other parts


Thanks HB that is what I couln't tell , for the very same reason..


----------



## sledge

NO Message i just wanted to crack 100 pages WOW he he he he


----------



## sledge

Is anyone doing eyes? I was just curious what the best (easiest) design might be?


----------



## sledge

This really is an impressive thread though and a lot of good is coming out of it. Thanks to everyone on this forum that makes these dreams become reality.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Dionicia, I dont see any difference in the wiring, you still have the tip as the ground and the sleeve as the hot, or still backwards, it'll absolutely blow the board. You *REEEEALLY* need to use a volt meter to find the pos and neg side of the plug. The red wire MUST go from the center pin lug on your jack to the + block screw(+) on the board, the black wire, MUST go from the sleeve lug to the RIGHT screw block on the board. Unless you are using a second power supply to run servos seperately from the board, screw the wires down into th VL block, not the VS1.

If you cant unsolder the wires off the jack, then take a black magic marker and color the RED wire BLACK... ALL of it. Then take red nail polish and color the BLACK wire RED... call me if you need help on this(um, not the nail polish thing..), the East Valley area code, 325 0602.

Capt Jack (TJ)


----------



## wicc_ed

Awww Jack you dont want to help with the nail polish?

Also About the EYES... Check my profile... then Albums... ALT 3 AXIS BUILD. I have a few pictures in there of eyes.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Nail polish an' pirates naught mix.. Now, throw in some eye liner an' I'm there...

Looked at yer eyes 'mate, lookin' mighty fine, bu' cramped in thar.. Maybe next year I be tryin' tha' in mine..

Capt. Jack


----------



## wicc_ed

The picture I posted above shows the eyes in an frame made from aluminum flashing. The ones in the skull use the actual eye socket to hold the eyes, thus making the only room inside the skull needed is room for the servo, and the acrylic bar (which you could use a wooden dowel in place of).


----------



## RBC

sledge said:


> Is anyone doing eyes? I was just curious what the best (easiest) design might be?



yes Sledge a few of us are doing eyes, Wicc_ed, and Guitarist and Myself for starters. I'm sure there are others doing them too


----------



## dionicia

CaptnJackSparrow said:


> Dionicia, I dont see any difference in the wiring, you still have the tip as the ground and the sleeve as the hot, or still backwards, it'll absolutely blow the board. You *REEEEALLY* need to use a volt meter to find the pos and neg side of the plug. The red wire MUST go from the center pin lug on your jack to the + block screw(+) on the board, the black wire, MUST go from the sleeve lug to the RIGHT screw block on the board. Unless you are using a second power supply to run servos seperately from the board, screw the wires down into th VL block, not the VS1.
> 
> If you cant unsolder the wires off the jack, then take a black magic marker and color the RED wire BLACK... ALL of it. Then take red nail polish and color the BLACK wire RED... call me if you need help on this(um, not the nail polish thing..), the East Valley area code, 325 0602.
> 
> Capt Jack (TJ)


Luckily I did not solder the wires to the powerjack. There are three prongs two of them have holes. The picture here is showing the prongs without the wire.


----------



## wicc_ed

Whoo Hoo... am I # 1000 post?

Yes!... I remember how excited everyone was when it made it to 500... and now we have doubled it!


----------



## dionicia

Just imagine when this hits 1500. It will probably be closer to Halloween.


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

right, ok, look on the power supply plug, thar should be a lil molded diagram on it which shows th center an th sleeve wiring. Usually looks like a crescent(half circle) with a minus sign, and a dot with a line from it with a plus sign. Means tha fer the jack, th' center lug (pin) be th' positive(red)wire, th' outside lug be th negative(black) wire.

Again unless ye are using multiple power cubes, wire the power into just the VL block, leave the jumpers on the pins between the VS1 and VS2 and the VL blocks.


----------



## wicc_ed

OK Dionica... 
on your wall wart you should see something that looks similar to

- ──(· ─ +
Representing ouside neg and center Pos. 
Or if the +/- signs are reversed then center is neg. See anything like that?


----------



## wicc_ed

*Wall Wart Polarity*

Ok I searched out a pic of what to look for on your wall wart. 










The (+) goes to the (+) on your controller board. (Whether it is the VS1 VS2 or VL3).


----------



## Regor

Dionicia,
Be careful using metal washers for standoffs. It would not be good to short across a couple pins on the bottom of the board. Looks like your washers are small enough not to be a problem though. I thought it worth mentioning.


----------



## RBC

Wicc_ed I have my eye slide made to bad I dont have camera.
I got the idea when I saw you slide to use Ball joint and caps. so if you can picture this in your head here goes:
Half eyes fulled with epoxy putty and counter sunk and brass ball connector with the cap sticking out of the putty.I then cut the ball part off the plastic cap and add a small piece of rod with other cap on the opposite end. did this for both eyes Next


I took a piece of rod long enough to make the slide part .and put another ball cap plastic connector on each end. cutting off the plastic tiny ball again and screwing in the tiny trailer hitch part at both ends. But FIRST before you put the second Trailer hitch section on I took one Plastic Ball cap and drill a tiny hole through the ball. and then where the staff is I added a piece of wire for the servo to go to. and slid that to the middle of the wire slide. Then put the second end on. I Hope you got the picture because I have no Camera now Thanks to JTR

I Opened the eye socket up as far as I could nice and round and used the pivot point in middle rod through eyeball method.This is only a 1 axis but thats all I needed for this Prop.

WoW I'm over a 1000 too when I was Blinky the house elf I had someting close to 1500 then I changed My Name


----------



## wicc_ed

Blinky, 
I think Im getting the jist of what your saying. (goodness you guys like to use the exspensive parts lol). I havent used the ball and cap parts, but it sounds like it should work.


----------



## RBC

wicc_ed said:


> Blinky,
> I think Im getting the jist of what your saying. (goodness you guys like to use the exspensive parts lol). I havent used the ball and cap parts, but it sounds like it should work.


 This skellie is for a customer That is why I have to use the GOOD STUFF .. so I don't have to repair it every year, and my customer wouldn't like it breaking on the BIG day. I make things that last..lol It will out live me. Hmm I wonder where JTR put my old crappy camera at , will have to look for it..

Question do you Guys and Gals spray paint the inside of your skulls black?


----------



## wicc_ed

RBC said:


> ..
> 
> Question do you Guys and Gals spray paint the inside of your skulls black?


Since I have put eyes on my skulls, I havent found the need to paint the inside of the skull.


----------



## dionicia

I appreciate the information and the heads-up on the washers Regor. The plug I have looks like the first pic Wicc_ed. I taped up the wires with black electrical tape so hopefully that will hold for the time being. If I have to solder them...I have to tear apart the garage to find the solder. 

I am still learning that electrical work is more than just electrocuting myself putting up Christmas lights. 

I almost have two more skulls ready to hook up. I think I will just wait until they are wired up and then test it out using one of the VSA programs the good Capt'n has put together.

Thanks again.


----------



## HalloweenBob

OK, I can see a little more now, and I still see some problems and there are still unanswered questions.

First, I see a new problem that wasn't in the picture before. You are using a stack of washers to raise up the SSC-32 board. Metal washers conduct electricity and those are pretty wide washers. It looks as though those washers are easily touching the tracks on the bottom of the board possibly shorting out several at a time. You should change those to nylon standoffs of use anything you want there as long as it's not metal or any conductive material.

The way it looks now, you could blow up the whole board as soon as you turn on the power.


As for the rest of it. You did not say if you are using conventional wiring, meaning that the black wire is negative and the red wire is positive.

Are you using a wall wart to power this or some other power supply?

If you are using a wallwart, does it say what the polarity is? 

If the center point is positive, you should have the red wire connected to the centerpoint on the jack. From the new picture, it looks like you have disconnected all wires from the tip.

I am also a bit confused as to what kind of jack you are using?

You mentioned that there are 3 contacts. DC power has only 2. Positive and negative (or Ground).

Can you take a closeup picture of the power supply that shows the type of jack coming off it?

I can not tell from the picture if your red wire is attached to the positive (+) post on the SSC-32 board. It's a bit out of focus there, and I can't see which order the wires are in.

I also see that there is no solder on the wires. That needs to be fixed. Without solder, there will be a poor and possibly intermittant power connection.

I will stop here, because I just realized that several others have pointed out some of these same problems before me. I went right to your post from my email notification and missed the fact that there were other replys after that. Sorry to be redundant.


----------



## HalloweenBob

According to the answer you gave as to which diagram matches your wall wart, you should have the red wire attached to the tip of the jack and the black wire attached to the sleeve.

Still not sure why your jack has 3 contacts. Can you tell us where you got the jack and what part number it is, so I can look it up and see why it would have 3 contacts?


----------



## wicc_ed

My Power jack has 3 terminals as well (purchased at radio shack), however I am using the center as the positive and the one to the outer edge as the negative. The one in the middle is used if you are using a battery for "unplugged" usage. (a spring type connector for the ground is inside the jack. When you plug in adapter, it presses the ground to middle connector. 
So the middle connector is just not used in this project.


----------



## HomeyDaClown

HB: if it has three contacts it has an internal switch (which could be open or closed contact activated when the plug is inserted) this is the type they sell at Radio Shack (274-1565). 

It would be a problem if she has soldered to the wrong switch tab.
I would solder both switch (upper in the pic) solder tabs together (bypassing the switch). 
If the wart is actually tip positive (center positive) the RED would be connected the bottom solder tab, the BLACK the upper two in this picture:


View attachment 1240


----------



## gym_ghost

Dionicia,
Couple of things; I highly recommend you call someone on this board and have them walk you through your setup. I am looking closely at the pictures you have provided and do want to point out a few things: the wiring needs to be validated. Is it possible to take some detail pictures and post them here? And you’re using washers on the circuit board (I know this was already pointed out). Using metal to support a board - very bad and can ruin your board. You can run over any auto parts store and pick up rubber grommets. They work great and should be used. 

I know you’re so close and this is where we have a tendency to rush things... I highly recommend you take a set back and have another set of eyes look at the setup.

Nothing worse than trying to troubleshoot something as minor as a wire crossed or some major that can ruin the whole setup. 

Just my two cents!

Joel


----------



## gym_ghost

Halloween bob,
I am thinking it may be a stereo jack or something like that!!!

Joel


----------



## HalloweenBob

I think it is the right jack, and it has a switch in it so that when you remove the adapter, it switches to battery power.

The post a couple above is correct. Short out the two swich connections and solder the black wire there.

Solder the red wire to the tip.

The jack in the picture and the one from RS shown above don't seem to be the same model, but the theory and wiring is the same.

without a doubt, be sure someone walks you through this process and checks all your wiring and connections before applying power. If you have a webcam, I will be happy to walk you through as long as I can see what you are doing at each point before applying power.

I will need some good closeups of all the contact points and the board in general as well as the wall wart.


----------



## Dr Morbius

I use segments of ball point pen casings to make standoffs. Papermate has thicker casings then Bic, so I use those. They really work great and cost nothing if your throwing away an empty used pen anyway. Just make sure you remove the ink tube before cutting, or man, what a mess.


----------



## dionicia

HalloweenBob said:


> According to the answer you gave as to which diagram matches your wall wart, you should have the red wire attached to the tip of the jack and the black wire attached to the sleeve.
> 
> Still not sure why your jack has 3 contacts. Can you tell us where you got the jack and what part number it is, so I can look it up and see why it would have 3 contacts?


Allelectronics.com and the part number is CAT# DCJ-6.

I will have to hunt down some nylon standoffs. I will check a few websites to see what I can find. I am using 22 AWG servo wire for the power. Is that ok or should I use something else?


----------



## HalloweenBob

We have figured out what the third contact is. It ios indeed the Batt/AC switch on the jack.

Here is a picture of the jack from the Allelectronics page:

http://www.allelectronics.com/mas_a...t.500;width.500;modified.1207856344.DCJ-6.jpg

It doesn't show it from the back, so I can't see all the contacts.

It appears to me that the red wire should be connected to the tip, which should be the lone connector at the bottom. (or opposite end of the jack from where it gets plugged in to) The black wire should connect to one of the side connectors, and it should be fine to connect the two side connectors to each other.

Befor powering it up the board, you should check the voltage with a meter before you hook it to your board

the 22 AWG wire should be adequate for power depending on how many servos you are running off that one power wire. 

How many are you running?

If you are running 4 or 5 it should be fine. If you are running 20 or 30, you should use thicker wire.


----------



## dionicia

I'm running 16 servos. I think I have some stronger guage wire in the garage from a project last year. 

I appreciate the help with this.

Thank you.


----------



## RBC

Redmond and Ruetten The Servo God has smile on you this day:

Your orders will go out at 10a I will send you the tracking #'s when I get them.Hugs


----------



## dadgonemad

I'm using the same type of jack. I wired it up last night and checked the voltage with a meter to ensure the polarity was correct coming from the power supply. Everything checked out.

For this particular jack, when facing the solder tabs on the back of the jack, there are three tabs and it should be viewed with the middle one at the top. Assuming your powersupply is center-positive: The left tab is the tip and should be wired to the red (+) wire. The top tab is the shell and should be wired to the black (-) wire. The right tab is the other contact for a normally closed switch to the top tab. This can be ignored. I can take a picture of mine tonight.

I'm also going to use these standoffs to mount the board inside this box.

I'm using 22AWG wire to power 4 servos (one skull) and the board. It's a short run from the jack to the board, so I think it will be ok. I may expand it to 8 servos (two skulls) next year. 

*Does anyone know what's the max guage wire the SSC-32 board can accept on those small terminals?

Also, is it correct that if you want to power the 0-15 servo bank and board logic from a single power supply you connect the power supply to the VS1 terminal with the VS=VL jumper set?*

-dgm


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Th' standoffs look fine.. Ya powers th' board by VL, an' leave th' jumper on to get power to th' VS1 or VS2 side. Th' power block shud be able ta take 16-18 gauge wire, but 18-20 gauge 'tween th' jack an board be fine fer mor than 4 servos..

An' 'ave ye oll been ta me Pirates Music, Fonts and VSA page?

Jack


----------



## dionicia

O.k I just discovered something. There is sheets of plastic up at Home Depot called Lucite Tuf and it has paper on both sides. 

I found that if you leave the paper on one of the sides, you can run it through your scroll saw and use a rotary tool without melting the plastic (unless you leave it in one place for too long). I had to make some more plates (Sorry Capt'n, the ones you made didn't quite fit) and it was SUPER easy. I can't believe how fast and accurate it was. 

I hope this helps for those who want to make their own using HalloweenBob's template. 

Cheers.


----------



## RBC

dionicia said:


> O.k I just discovered something. There is sheets of plastic up at Home Depot called Lucite Tuf and it has paper on both sides.
> 
> I found that if you leave the paper on one of the sides, you can run it through your scroll saw and use a rotary tool without melting the plastic (unless you leave it in one place for too long). I had to make some more plates (Sorry Capt'n, the ones you made didn't quite fit) and it was SUPER easy. I can't believe how fast and accurate it was.
> 
> I hope this helps for those who want to make their own using HalloweenBob's template.
> 
> Cheers.


hmm interesting how thick is it? and what department did you find it in and How much $$$$? and what color is it?


----------



## dionicia

I had to glue to pieces together to get the thickness of the plates I got from GymGhost but I imagine you can buy em that thick too. You get them in the glass area as they have different type and pieces of plastic.

I bought them a few years back so I couldn't honestly tell you how much I paid for each piece. They were for a Christmas gift project that was taking way too darn long.

I can tell you that if you buy a 8 x 10 sheet, you can cut out two of the plates. Just please be really careful.


----------



## HalloweenBob

Yes, actually, you are supposed to leave the paper on until you are all done cutting.

In fact, earlier in this thread, where I have the template, it instructs you to take the template, print it out, and glue it to the paper that is still on the plexiglass with spray adhesive.

Then you peel the whole mess off after your done with all your cuts.


----------



## dionicia

After 103 pages. That's a tough bit to catch.


----------



## GrimShady

Yep, my thoughts exactly...the socket bolt thing seems like a natural for this.




Dr Morbius said:


> I agree...I was thinking why doesn't somebody doing the gimble thng use those rotating socket bolts? I see someone has! nice work. Got a vid? I'd love to see it in action!


----------



## RBC

here is something pretty nice he is using mini pneumatic cylinders, controlled by silanoid valves. instead of servos

YouTube - The Bone Tones


----------



## dionicia

Looks like talking Boris right?


----------



## mkozik

Can someone suggest model #'s of P. E. beams used to trigger the props?


----------



## RBC

you all just have to see this video

YouTube - Mr Howle

Now I can't get this song out of my Head,lol


----------



## bonemanB

Now that is just freaking great........Nice find.


----------



## RBC

I found it because of wicc-ed he told me about it. But It was just to good to hide .. I think it should be the Halloween Forum Theme Song,lol


----------



## dionicia

Just curious what everyone is using speakerwise for the making the skull talk.

Putting the speaker inside the body or setting up speakers around the skull?


----------



## RookieSpooker

Blinky, that video is FANTASTIC!! You have GOT to post this in General Halloween.


----------



## RBC

dionicia I'm doing a self contain unit so it will be inside but That just me lol

Rookie Spooker I can't repost it. its against the rules for me too, But I think you can.. Keeba did a Great Job on it.. I wonder if she use the FCG method to move the hands (puppet style ) and then the sissor method for the body movement and 2 axis for the head? What do you think? Also I Hope she got around to giving him a bottom half to him , he looked unfinished with no legs.But He still is Great !!


----------



## HalloweenBob

I had amplified speakers on stands on either side of the group. This is only because mine was supposed to be a singing quartet at a "gig" in the graveyard. If it were a real group, they would have speakers set up like that and people would expect to see them. These were full size speakers with 15" woofers and horn tweeters. They were amplified and had 300 watt amps built in. I put them on tripods. The lead singer also had a microphone and a mic stand.

Since they were outside, and there were large groups of people watching, I felt that I needed some good amplification, and I didn't want to use computer speakers that might be weak or distort.

Now, if this were a single skull set up as a greeter for my haunt or in a room where there were just a small group of people at a time....AND it wasn't a singing group that are supposed to have speakers and microphones, etc. then I would have embedded a speaker inside the body.

It all depends on your application,


----------



## HalloweenBob

For mkozik,

Another member here, Oct 31 Man has gone to the trouble of making a PDF file of the important parts of this thread including all the links on where to buy parts, pictures of the proceedure, etc.

That is back somewhere between pages 25 and 30 I think, but I will repost it here:

http://rewindshow.com/skull/3_Axis_Skull.pdf

Just note a couple of things. 

1. There are parts shown in this post and in the pdf that are not used in the final product (Such as modifying the neck hole with a heat gun, and bending the rod end.

Since this was a learn as I went post, I tried several things out, documenting them as I went, and some of the things I tried didn't work out. So, please read all the way through so you do not simply repeat my mistakes and waste your time.

2. Also, this PDF was made quite a while ago, and a lot has been added to this post since then. Many members have come up with other alternatives for parts and other ideas.

Also since this PDF was made, Gym Ghost (Another forum member) has started mass producing kits that include everything you need to make these skulls! Just look over the last 20 pages or so of this post to find all the info you need about how to get these. He is working with Blinky (RBC Rock Bottom Cemetery) from this forum who is selling the kits on her webpage for him.

I believe it will turn out cheaper for you to buy the kits which include giant bulk buys of product than to try to buy everything yourself and make these.

If you want the hands on experience and you love to make things with your own hands, then by all means, do it yourself and follow the directions here, but the kits made from this design (and considerably tweaked and improved) by Gym Ghost and high quality, rugged and more than fairly priced.


----------



## gym_ghost

Couple of things:
1-	Ordering product: Effective immediately, all GYM 3-axis parts will need to be ordered through Blinky. I will be talking to her today and getting everything in order to make this a smooth transition over to her. May take up a week to get everything finalized. Warranty repairs and technical questions will still be handled by GYM. Orders place to date will be fulifilled and ALL to be shipped out this week. 

2-	Axis Rod breaking: I have received three feedbacks about the 2-56 brazed rod snapping or breaking away from the 10-24 base (axis rod). Last week we completely redesigned the axis rod to make it more robust and easier to use. One of the better improvements, we made it universal for the Bucky and Lindberg and a screw is used to secure the linkage to the axis rod – no more small nut. If you encounter a breakage, contact me immediately and I will send out replacement parts. 

a. Root cause of this problem: we found out one of our production workers heated up the 2-56 rod red hot when brazing – not good and was causing brittleness of the material. 
b. Corrective Action: Complete redesign of the rod to eliminate brazing. Parts to be fabricated in three parts. Will be assembled by screw type configuration using lock-tit / red. 

3. Website and email addresses will be up and running by June 27. Very disappointed with our previous host provider and will never do business with them again. Refuse to transfer our domain over for 60 days because we had to change the register name. Unreal. Had to hire an attorney to help us move it. 

Sorry about the long delay in answering emails and such. Been very busy and just these past few weeks, we had two film crews in the shop for some upcoming shows related to Halloween. 

Thanks
Joel
Graveyardmadness


----------



## gym_ghost

WOOT!!!! Email addresses for graveyardmadness.com are up and running. So send away!!!!

Sorry for the confusions these past few weeks!!!!

JOel


----------



## RBC

well gang i found that Mr. Howle is an entirely pneumatic driven 
animatronic. There are no servos used. The APC-16 was used to animate 
him . he is still a cool prop but this breaks my heart.. Now I have to find a way to make him with servos for a self contain unit.lol


----------



## dscrimager

*eye mounts - still looking*

Anyone have any pictures of available hardware used for eye gimballing. I've seen references to some items that suggest a hardware solution but am not sure what item it is, are we talking a Heim joint like is now used on the updated skull gimballing design? I'm looking to do two axis movement.

I think I have looked at every page but....

Thanks
Freshly Doug


----------



## Phoenix

Can someone explain to me the attraction of a self contained unit?

If you absolutey must have a 'stand alone' system you can buy a new laptop for less than $400, which is cheaper than most stand alone control units, and can easily outperform all of them, or a new desktop PC with a 7.1 sound card and 8 usb ports for less than $250.

I think it was halloweenbabe who last year set up a singing group using surround sound and gave each member of the group a separate speaker... I forget the exact details
, but it sounded pretty cool.


----------



## Running_Scared

You guys (and girls) have done a great job on these skulls especially Bob and Joel ! I definitely have to build at least one of these before Halloween. I have been reading over all 105 pages of this thread over the last two days and fell very comfortable trying this build because of everyones hard work. Just wanted to share.


----------



## wicc_ed

Welcome to the group Running Scared!

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask, since that is what we are here for.


----------



## Running_Scared

Has anyone tried or heard of the ServoCenter™ 3.1?
SERVO-CENTER.COM

Here's a link to te ServoCenter 3.1 in action
Interactive Cybernetics


----------



## sluggo

Phoenix_UK said:


> Can someone explain to me the attraction of a self contained unit?
> 
> If you absolutey must have a 'stand alone' system you can buy a new laptop for less than $400, which is cheaper than most stand alone control units, and can easily outperform all of them, or a new desktop PC with a 7.1 sound card and 8 usb ports for less than $250.


I'm not sure what kind of system you're talking about when you use the term "self contained unit", but I use a PIC microcontroller to control my props. I can have a 13 I/O pin system for about $10. For another $60, I can add a fully controllable stereo MP3 player from Rogue Robotics. So, for $70 out the door, I can have a self contained unit. If I were to do multiple moving figures (which I haven't done yet), I'd either use a bigger micro, or else chain together a couple micros. Still way cheaper than a laptop and more portable than a desktop.

Mark


----------



## Phoenix

sluggo said:


> I'm not sure what kind of system you're talking about when you use the term "self contained unit", but I use a PIC microcontroller to control my props. I can have a 13 I/O pin system for about $10. For another $60, I can add a fully controllable stereo MP3 player from Rogue Robotics. So, for $70 out the door, I can have a self contained unit. If I were to do multiple moving figures (which I haven't done yet), I'd either use a bigger micro, or else chain together a couple micros. Still way cheaper than a laptop and more portable than a desktop.
> 
> Mark


yup, perfectly workable way of doing it, it you have the electronics and programming skills, however most people who don't have these skills are looking for an off the shelf system.

Also you don't say how you sync your servo routines to the sound... or are you just doing digital control?


----------



## RBC

Phoenix_UK said:


> Can someone explain to me the attraction of a self contained unit?



because I rent alot of my props out to Hotels and Restaurants here in the Houston area. and If I don't make them as self contained as possible the kids miss with stuff. Heck last year I caught some kids trying to pull the eyes out of one of my witch's that was on display.So I walked up to them and asked where their parents were. And told them that if they didn't stop trying to pull the eyes out of the props I was going to tell their parents..so the little smart @'s said "what's it to you?" and I said "OH, about $500.00 that I will charge your parents because you tore up my Prop"..


Yes , I know kids are kids and they will do that every time someone isn't watching them. so the less stuff for them to mess with the better. Now I know Gemmy has come up with a board to make their products stand a lone ( I just have to find the right combo of boards)
.


----------



## mkozik

Thanks HolloweenBob for the reply. New to the post and have not had a chance to go through all 100+ pages !! Please send a link to the website so I can look at the kits you mentioned. I have looked at many of these type "mods" and have found yours to be the best of them. Great work.

Are you triggering your prop using a PE beam or pressure mat or just have it on a timer?


----------



## mkozik

HalloweenBob: I found the link to the website and found the kits. Question for you is in your posts you are using an SSC-32 servo controller and the kit shows the Parallax servo controller. Have you changed and if so, why? I have not had a chance to read all the posts yet so if this is redundant, I appologize!


----------



## HalloweenBob

No, I haven't changed anything. The controller is not part of the kits as far as I know.

I used the SSC-32 because it was cheaper and had more outputs. I have had no problem with it.

Either will work fine, it's just personal preference and how many outputs you need.


----------



## Running_Scared

Has anyone tried the ServoCenter™ 3.1 controller? It is a lot more expensive then the SSC-32 or the Parallax controller. Here is a link:
SERVO-CENTER.COM

Here is a link to the board in action (by the way this thing is awsome):
Interactive Cybernetics


----------



## Running_Scared

Has anyone tried theServoCenter 3.1 controller?
SERVO-CENTER.COM

Here it is in action
Interactive Cybernetics


----------



## RBC

mkozik said:


> HalloweenBob: I found the link to the website and found the kits. Question for you is in your posts you are using an SSC-32 servo controller and the kit shows the Parallax servo controller. Have you changed and if so, why? I have not had a chance to read all the posts yet so if this is redundant, I appologize!


Here is the link to where the kits are being sold and Yes I sell a parallax controller with mine. but if you want a ssc 32 that is no problem .when ordering just leave me a Note in the Note Field stating that you want a ssc32 .instead Halloween Bob didn't put these kits together , so there for unless he goes to my website and reads want is in the kits he has No Idea.. parallax is used for a self contain unit. That is why I choose to go with that option . I Never know how many skulls One person is making till they order. Thanks Blinky
Numbskull kits


----------



## sluggo

Phoenix_UK said:


> Also you don't say how you sync your servo routines to the sound... or are you just doing digital control?


The mouth is hand-coded to sync up with the audio. It's not really that painful to do. Maybe an hour for 20 seconds or so of talking. In my experience, a speech any longer than 20 seconds is a waste, as no one sticks around long enough to hear it. Let me know if you want more detail than that.

Mark


----------



## Phoenix

Its OK, I get the picture

btw if your happy with a PC and VSA then there is a bargain offer in the group buy section, Exorcist for $95 (normal price $299)


----------



## HalloweenBob

Actually, Most people doing these are using Brookshire Software's VSA. It plays the audio file and allows you to set servo motions on a timeline that runs along the top of the audio wavefile.

It's really simple to do once you learn it and get some practice.

Sorry Blinky, I didn't know the controller borads were part of the kit. Didn't mean to give out bad info. I'll have to look over your website more closely.

In fact, Please PM me. I have some questions.

My routines are about 5 minutes long each. They are, however a singing group, not just giving a speech or talking, so it's a little different. But I had no problem holding the attention of the crowds that came for each performance. Even got rounds of applause at the end.


----------



## sluggo

HalloweenBob said:


> Actually, Most people doing these are using Brookshire Software's VSA. It plays the audio file and allows you to set servo motions on a timeline that runs along the top of the audio wavefile.


The advantage of being a computer programmer with some minor electronics skills. I can go with the cheaper hardware and software. In fact, I prefer it over something like VSA. It is the programming that I enjoy most when building props. VSA would take the fun out of it for me.



> My routines are about 5 minutes long each. They are, however a singing group, not just giving a speech or talking, so it's a little different. But I had no problem holding the attention of the crowds that came for each performance. Even got rounds of applause at the end.


Perhaps the music helps hold the crowd. Or, perhaps you just have people with a different mentality than I have around here. I've had 30 second routines before, and I've had people in and out before it was half over, hardly even looking at the prop.

Mark


----------



## Running_Scared

I have been watching this thread for several days now and have a question about using RGB leds in the eyes. I have no programming skills what so ever so I am unaware if what I want to do is possibe or will work with VSA. What I want to do is control the RGB leds with this www dot picprojects.org.uk/projects/zcode/index.htm so I could have my led bo and color I want. It is a diy type kit with free code to control it. I know there are products out there already that can do this I am just looking for a lower cost alternative.


----------



## RBC

HalloweenBob;
Sorry Blinky said:


> Thats ok HB I put a kit together with servos, and cards and linkage and hardware that I'm selling on my website. So people don't have to run all over looking for what they need. I also am selling Gym Ghost version as well. But his I don't think include everything that is needed you may have to order the servos and hardware seprate , I will have to get with him and Finialize the set ups..He has been very busy of late. Hugs HB


----------



## wicc_ed

Blinky, 
Eyes got me skulls today.. Thanks


----------



## RBC

wicc_ed said:


> Blinky,
> Eyes got me skulls today.. Thanks



Lol are you on Line? I'm Glad you got them today Hugs.


----------



## dionicia

They live!!!!!

All of em to move but they seem to want to move on their own now without VSA running. 

I unplugged everything for now until I can figure out why.


----------



## guitarist155

dionicia said:


> They live!!!!!
> 
> All of em to move but they seem to want to move on their own now without VSA running.
> 
> I unplugged everything for now until I can figure out why.


simple, they are possessed


----------



## HalloweenBob

Ahh... now we're getting somewhere.

Is it jerky motiion, or smooth? You say they are moving without VSA running at all? Is VSA even on?

You might have a missing ground issue on the controller board. Which board are you using as the controller?


----------



## Abunai

dionicia said:


> They live!!!!!
> 
> All of em to move but they seem to want to move on their own now without VSA running.
> 
> I unplugged everything for now until I can figure out why.


Is it possible that the servos are fighting against each other, trying to return to their center position?


----------



## HomeyDaClown

I agree with HB. If all the servos are experiencing jitter it is from a common source, either the ground connection(s) or power. I would double check all the connections and make sure every single ground wire is tied to the same place and shared by the controller the servos and the power supplies.

Otherwise:

Once you bring them to life...............Remember Frankenstein???


----------



## dionicia

I am using a lynxmotion ssc-32 servo controller. 

I set them aside for a while so my neck can recover. I worked with them too long for the last few days and now my neck is killing me.


----------



## HalloweenBob

Maybe you need a new neck servo for yourself. What hurts moet....tilt, nod or rotate?


----------



## Highball

Well I've lingered here long enough, finally got all my parts for my skulls, hardest to get locally was the rod ends. Now its time to start the build, I hope mine turn out half as good as the ones I've seen so far. One question I have is, do you need to have a skull hooked up to start working on a program , or could you just ROUGH it in before you have the skull done?
Ken


----------



## HalloweenBob

Yes and No. You can "rough it" and then fine tune it later, but you really need to have some experience seeing what the actions you take do to the skull first.

You need to know what limits to set for your servos. That's most important. Then you can wing it a bit putting in specific moves where you know you will need them, and then filling in the rest later. Then you can hook them up and tweak it all.

I do some of that, But I really prefer to see it happen as I program it.


----------



## Highball

Thats kind of what I thought , I haven't downloaded the software yet so I haven't had a chance to see what it will or can do. Need to get a skull done so I can start programming, not a lot of time left to learn, build and tweak.


----------



## puterdoc

Blinky, are you selling Gym Ghost's version of the kit yet? Way back in the thread there was a kit for about $60 that di not include the skull, servoes, etc. I did not see this version on your site.


----------



## RBC

That is because he is know longer selling them like that His is On my website for sell now
as the complete kit


----------



## 1jimbeam

*link to complete kit*

can you post a link here to the complete kit on your page?
Jim


----------



## HalloweenBob

Rock Bottom Cemetery - ***NEW Gym-Ghost Skull Kit


----------



## RBC

HalloweenBob said:


> Rock Bottom Cemetery - ***NEW Gym-Ghost Skull Kit


Thanks HB I was tied up in chat talking with some Peeps who wanted to make make skulls Thanks for the cover. I Hope you have a Happy Forth of July.. Hugs


----------



## 1jimbeam

*new kits are ??*

So the new new kits for the lindberg skull are $350.00?
Jim


----------



## RBC

1jimbeam said:


> So the new new kits for the lindberg skull are $350.00?
> Jim


Yes Sorry Jim his introductory offer is over, I'm sorry you missed it. Gym Ghost kit is $450.00 for the bucky's and $350.00 for Lindberg


----------



## puterdoc

Thanks HB and Blinky for the quick replies and information. Just my luck, a day late and a dollar short. I just found the build thread on these last week.

Are the skull plates on RBC the ones that Gym Ghost makes? I read an earlier post that Capt. Jack was making them, but using one of Gym Ghost's reject plates as a template. Did GG ever post the template for these? I saw a note back 50 or 60 pages ago about it, but did not see it.

I have a source for the servoes, walwarts, and hardware, but will be needing the skulls, plates, and controller. I will look further at RBC for parts and prices. How do the shipping charges work if I order from several of the group buys?


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Aye mate, i be makin them, but jus' in small quantities, an' aye, the original plate i got be th' rejected design, but ones made from it are adjusted to be correct. It be th' plates I be usin in my skulls.

As fer shipping, if ye be gettin multiple parts from Blinky(RBC), me or GG, shipping usually be combined into just flat rate.. tha' be wot I use anyways.. if it can fit in the USPS box, shipping be $10 and $5-$8 fer insurance.

Capt Jack


----------



## indianaholmes

Template for Lindberg here; http://halloweenforum.com/halloween-props/62161-my-3-axis-skull-progress-5.html 
This is the original from HalloweenBob.


----------



## HalloweenBob

Just a note about the original template. It is the one that I used and all my skulls worked fine, but Gym Ghost did a lot of R&D on the design and made some modifications to get the exact center of gravity, and the plates are professionally machined. I have several of them, and they are nice.

So his new design to the eye looks about the same, but there are modifications made especially for the lindberg skull. Also, for his Bucky kits. The bucky plates are different from the Lindberg plates so that they fit right in the skulls correctly and are balanced as well.

Just an FYI


----------



## RBC

Yes I am making them from the same pattern as Halloween Bob and Gym Ghost


----------



## 1jimbeam

*lindberg skull kits*

So is anyone still making and selling the kit with just the skull plate, machined axis rod, and mounting bracket. And If so how much.
Jim


----------



## RBC

1jimbeam said:


> So is anyone still making and selling the kit with just the skull plate, machined axis rod, and mounting bracket. And If so how much.
> Jim


I will ask gym ghost if he will do a package like that for you Hang in there..I will call him today but he is in Ca and time zone is diff so I dont want to wake him tooooo early..


----------



## 1jimbeam

*kits*

Thanks, 

I bought 2 of the kits at the $60 club price. And I knew the price was going up. I just did not know the kits would not be available in the 3 part set.
Jim


----------



## Skeletons in my closet

I'm a bit confused, sorry if I'm repeating others, but my eyes are crossing at all the info in this thread. 

The controller card can control several servos for several skulls, correct? So, I'd only need one card to control, say, 4 skulls? If so, is there a kit I'm not seeing that has the skull, plate, hardware, servos, etc...everything except the controller card that isn't needed for the additional skulls?

thanks in advance!!


----------



## guitarist155

it's alive  i got my plate and rod from gym ghost today and have finished all the main parts. I still have to mount the jaw servo and build the eye mech, then it will be time to get the brain wuahahahahahaha


----------



## RBC

Skeletons in my closet said:


> I'm a bit confused, sorry if I'm repeating others, but my eyes are crossing at all the info in this thread.
> 
> The controller card can control several servos for several skulls, correct? So, I'd only need one card to control, say, 4 skulls? If so, is there a kit I'm not seeing that has the skull, plate, hardware, servos, etc...everything except the controller card that isn't needed for the additional skulls?
> 
> thanks in advance!!



yes just send me a email of what you need and I will redo a invoce for you I will need your email addy. Hugs PM me


----------



## RBC

1jimbeam said:


> So is anyone still making and selling the kit with just the skull plate, machined axis rod, and mounting bracket. And If so how much.
> Jim


I am the only Person that Gym Ghost is letting sell his kits:

I asked this question of him today and he is send me a parts lists for the cost he wasnt going to part the kits out, but I think he is re-thinking this so hang in there for a couple of days and i will get back to you on it.


----------



## MESHOUSE

*servo question*

I noticed that there is a HS 311 servo for Jaw movement on Rock Bottoms Cemetery Site. Why the 311 instead of the 425BB for the movement of the Jaw?


----------



## RBC

MESHOUSE said:


> I noticed that there is a HS 311 servo for Jaw movement on Rock Bottoms Cemetery Site. Why the 311 instead of the 425BB for the movement of the Jaw?


you can order a 425B if you want but you dont need as much power in a servo for just the jaw. If you place a order make a note in the NOTE BOX if you want ALL 425Bs and give your Forum name too Thanks


----------



## Evil Bob

I would be interested in these too.



RBC said:


> I am the only Person that Gym Ghost is letting sell his kits:
> 
> I asked this question of him today and he is send me a parts lists for the cost he wasnt going to part the kits out, but I think he is re-thinking this so hang in there for a couple of days and i will get back to you on it.


----------



## RBC

evilbob said:


> I would be interested in these too.



Morning EB Yahoo me

I Hope you and DE have a Great 4th of July. I have to go to Madame X's house this AM.. But email me a list how what and how many you want and I will send you a invoice based just on those part Hugs Have a Good day

Jimbeam send me a email of want you want and i will send you a invoice based on those parts. I will need your email addy too PM me


----------



## RBC

puterdoc said:


> Thanks HB and Blinky for the quick replies and information. Just my luck, a day late and a dollar short. I just found the build thread on these last week.
> 
> Are the skull plates on RBC the ones that Gym Ghost makes? I read an earlier post that Capt. Jack was making them, but using one of Gym Ghost's reject plates as a template. Did GG ever post the template for these? I saw a note back 50 or 60 pages ago about it, but did not see it.
> 
> I have a source for the servoes, walwarts, and hardware, but will be needing the skulls, plates, and controller. I will look further at RBC for parts and prices. How do the shipping charges work if I order from several of the group buys?


sorry i missed the part about the shipping charges. since part are from different companies i charge what they charge me to place a order.most the time its $7.00 dollars. i have been shipping the group buy stuff for free. as long as it not to big a order. you can email me a shopping list i can send you a invoice.Hugs Blinky


----------



## gym_ghost

YES BASIC KITS ARE STILL AVAILABLE - the plate, axis rod, bracket, and 3/16 rod end are the basic builders kit. You will need to purchase the skull, servos, and the small 2-56 or 4-40linkage to hook it all up. 

My original pricing was $60 for either the bucky or lindberg. I will keep it the same!

Not to step on any toes RBC - I am in the process of switching it over to RBC. If urgent, please email me at sales at graveyardmadness dot com and I will send over an invoice. 

Thanks
Joel


----------



## puterdoc

That's fantastic..............

I want to get two of the kits. I know with the last offering, the kits went quickly based on the all of the messages. I will followup with an email just to make sure I get on "the list".

Blinky/RBC - No offense, just wanted to make sure I was in on the kits this time around.


----------



## dionicia

Be careful working on these. 

I worked on the skulls so much, I threw my neck and back out. My chiropractor wanted to know what I did to mess my back up so much. 

After I told her, she just shook her head at me and said, "I have to come over to your house this year".


----------



## RBC

puterdoc said:


> That's fantastic..............
> 
> I want to get two of the kits. I know with the last offering, the kits went quickly based on the all of the messages. I will followup with an email just to make sure I get on "the list".
> 
> Blinky/RBC - No offense, just wanted to make sure I was in on the kits this time around.


no problem I will put you down for 2 pm me your email so I can send you a amended invoice.. 

dionicia sorry you hurt yourself I came from the doctors today and I twisted my ankle lol
so now Im back in the wheel chair again..lol


----------



## dionicia

Goodness Blinky! I know how that feels. I hope you get better soon.


----------



## RBC

gym_ghost said:


> YES BASIC KITS ARE STILL AVAILABLE - the plate, axis rod, bracket, and 3/16 rod end are the basic builders kit. You will need to purchase the skull, servos, and the small 2-56 or 4-40linkage to hook it all up.
> 
> My original pricing was $60 for either the bucky or lindberg. I will keep it the same!
> 
> Not to step on any toes RBC - I am in the process of switching it over to RBC. If urgent, please email me at sales at graveyardmadness dot com and I will send over an invoice.
> 
> Thanks
> Joel


No problem Gym Ghost , The skulls are for sale on My website and so is the rest of the things you will need to make your skulls . just click the BLUE flame skull on the main web page, Happy 4th to all my friends..


----------



## puterdoc

Blinky, I received the info I requested. Thanks a bunch. The links you noted (20 of them), are they bagged up in sets? Also, I did not see the cap and ball links on the list. Are they available? I will be finalizing what I need this weekend and getting an order to you. Thanks again for putting the info together.

One other question, with the Lindbergs, has everyone been using the 2-56 sizes on their linkages? I thinking that since these are much lighter, this size should work.


----------



## RBC

puterdoc said:


> Blinky, I received the info I requested. Thanks a bunch. The links you noted (20 of them), are they bagged up in sets? Also, I did not see the cap and ball links on the list. Are they available? I will be finalizing what I need this weekend and getting an order to you. Thanks again for putting the info together.
> 
> One other question, with the Lindbergs, has everyone been using the 2-56 sizes on their linkages? I thinking that since these are much lighter, this size should work.


yes they have been using the 256 . Cap and ball links are $9.00 a bag and there will be about 3 set in total of 6 cap and balls. so just add $9.00 to the invoice and make a note in the note for what it is for if you want them.


----------



## puterdoc

Thanks Blinky, I am going to PM you with the order for specifics. I did cancel the original invoice thinking it was just an estimate. Happy 4th.


----------



## puterdoc

gym_ghost said:


> I will start a new thread on the hand. I just spoke with the other partner and we will release some photos and video later next week. This is for one hand: 4th class bucky hand, 2 HS-55, about 16" of 2-56 thread rod, 4 torsion springs (180 degrees) and 1 torsion springs (360 degrees), 8 nylon 1/8" bushing, and 20 lb fishing line. To build one will take about 3 hours from start to finish. One hour to assembly, two hours to adjust everything.
> 
> Joel


Hey Gym Ghost, did you ever get this idea up and running? I did not see any posts on it and it sounds like a great prop.


----------



## RBC

puterdoc said:


> Thanks Blinky, I am going to PM you with the order for specifics. I did cancel the original invoice thinking it was just an estimate. Happy 4th.


 thats ok if you want to amend the invoice I can make the changes and send you a new one. just email me the changes are pm me that is ok too.Hugs


----------



## puterdoc

Blinky, I just paid the invoice. I will PM you my information (not sure if you got it from paypal). Thanks for the quick responses and help on this. Enjoy the rest of the weekend.


----------



## dionicia

Can anyone explain how VSA works with the joystick? I read through the instructions and the VSA website and there is no explanation about how it works. 

Thank you.


----------



## Evil Bob

dionicia said:


> Can anyone explain how VSA works with the joystick? I read through the instructions and the VSA website and there is no explanation about how it works.
> 
> Thank you.


I believe it works with only one axis.


----------



## dionicia

Do you have a how-to for yers EB?

Parlay looks much easier to manipulate than VSA, but I am not sure how to use it.


----------



## wicc_ed

Dionicia
Not sure what type of joy stick you have, but I have a Saitek Control pad. To use it with VSA, I have to click on the capture button (right hand of screen, near the bottom). then I have to hold down button 1 and use the left stick left and right. (I realize this is can be disoriented doing the jaw, but after some practice it becomes easy). You just have to make sure you have the com settings right, and the other set up info


----------



## dionicia

Ok. I figured out how the joystick works with the VSA. I now understand that you turn the joystick to where the left side is facing you (I put an arrow on the joystick as a reminder) and press the "fire" key on the stick part. I just figured out that you can set the event as long as you want and run with it. So much to learn. 

Now I just have to.....grumble....pull the skulls apart so I can center them so some of the skulls wont forcibly look down. I have to do that anyway when I get the new rods so I am gonna wait until then. 

I'm learning more and more about this. I think I might put a bug in the ears of the tech guys over at VSA to see if they can create a software that allows multiple servos to go at the same time for us folks.


----------



## RookieSpooker

*Has anyone made any progress on the 2-axis eye movement??*


----------



## puterdoc

I'm getting ready to start working on my skulls and have a few quick questions for some of the experts our there...

What is everyone using for their wire runs from the controller to the skulls? Captain Jack's set up sounds great for running the four main servos. But what about the eye movement servos or adding some lighted eyes? How long are your wire runs between the controller and the skulls.

For those who built them, have you had any issues with the weight of the wiring coming into the skull? It seems like it would throw off the balance once the wiring is attached.


----------



## HalloweenBob

I made mine with servo extension wire (probably 20 GA) and 18 GA wire for the power connections.

My runs were all under 20 feet. I know many have been using cat5 cable. That should be fine for short runs like mine. I know Joel has had someone do tests on how much signal loss there is in cat5 for various lengths. Perhaps he will chime in here with the results.

The upshot is that even though people have reported very long runs with cat5, there is considerable signal loss which could cause delays making your routines get out of sync with the audio file.

As far as the balance issues, I didn't have any. I ran my cable right up the neck and wire-tied it to the lower portion of the center rod. From there it went to all the servos from the inside.

I have seen pics of Capt. Jack's with the cat5 plug at the rear of the skull. I don't believe he has had any issues with balance, but I don't know. Maybe he will chime in as well.

I know that the servos are powerful enough to overcome a small issue like that. The problem would be when you shut off the power to all the servos, does the wire at the back pull the heads down causing them all to look up to the sky?

I don't know the answer to that either, but the Capt. might.


----------



## RookieSpooker

*Does anyone remember the name of the circuit board that actually holds the entire VSA routine so that you don't have to move your computer to where the skulls will be displayed?*


----------



## HomeyDaClown

That would be the RAPU from Brookshire.

Several people have said it is very temperamental though.
I would use a cheap laptop for the money, you don't need much to run VSA.


----------



## dionicia

HalloweenBob said:


> I have seen pics of Capt. Jack's with the cat5 plug at the rear of the skull. I don't believe he has had any issues with balance, but I don't know. Maybe he will chime in as well.
> 
> I know that the servos are powerful enough to overcome a small issue like that. The problem would be when you shut off the power to all the servos, does the wire at the back pull the heads down causing them all to look up to the sky?
> 
> I don't know the answer to that either, but the Capt. might.


I did mine using the Capt'n how to and all of mine look down. I have to solder the wires though. Have a bit of a jitter problem.


----------



## 1jimbeam

*skulls looking down*

I have been playing with one of my 3 axis skull. Two of mine are looking down. In one I changed the nod servo out to a Futaba s30003 I had to whittle out the servo plate with a knife. But the skull seems to be looking right now. The futaba has 44.4 oz of torque at 4.8v.
Jim


----------



## 1jimbeam

*Ready to purchase again*



gym_ghost said:


> YES BASIC KITS ARE STILL AVAILABLE - the plate, axis rod, bracket, and 3/16 rod end are the basic builders kit. You will need to purchase the skull, servos, and the small 2-56 or 4-40linkage to hook it all up.
> 
> My original pricing was $60 for either the bucky or lindberg. I will keep it the same!
> 
> Not to step on any toes RBC - I am in the process of switching it over to RBC. If urgent, please email me at sales at graveyardmadness dot com and I will send over an invoice.
> 
> Thanks
> Joel


Hey,
I am ready to purchase 2 more of these kits, if they are still available. I got low on funds and had to wait.
Thanks,
Jim


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

'ello all,

I 'ad two 'eads tha' look down when they finished, so I put the events at th' end of th' song ta keep 'em up.. Wouldnt really be a bad thing 'mates, as 'twould signal th' end of th' play, an' people would move on.. easier than a cattle prod.. You could also put a lil weight at th' back of the skull ta balance it a bit... Wit' slack in the' Cat5 cable, an' it runnin' down th' neck, I naught 'ad issues with th' cable pullin' th' 'eads up..


----------



## Troy

HomeyDaClown said:


> That would be the RAPU from Brookshire.
> 
> Several people have said it is very temperamental though.
> I would use a cheap laptop for the money, you don't need much to run VSA.


Or you could use a old desktop, ad a USB wireless adapter so it can be connected to your network, then remote access it from a laptop or PC in the House..Halloween Bob turned me on to this method and it works very well. You can go to logmeon.com and download a free remote access program. it worked very well for Bob and I've also tested it out. Seems more "professional" to not let the audience see you start the routines.


----------



## Phoenix

hasnt wireless USB got a maximum range of 30'? with a serial cable you have a maximum cable length of 75'...vs USB with a maximum cable length of 15'

Using DMX gives you cable length of up to 1,000 feet, and you can have a virtually unlimited number of props on a single DMX cable.


----------



## guitarist155

i think he was talking about a wireless usb LAN. but i would agree by the time you have that money and time in it, unless you have the parts and computers already, it would be better to go dmx


----------



## Troy

Phoenix_UK said:


> hasnt wireless USB got a maximum range of 30'? with a serial cable you have a maximum cable length of 75'...vs USB with a maximum cable length of 15'
> 
> Using DMX gives you cable length of up to 1,000 feet, and you can have a virtually unlimited number of props on a single DMX cable.



Phoenix, I use a wireless Router (netgear) and a USB wireless adapter for this setup and I only need about a 50 foot range (also through two walls), signal strength is very good and haven't had any issues. I like to eliminate cables where I can. Also the Quartet is the only props I'm controlling with VSA.


----------



## Phoenix

Troy said:


> Phoenix, I use a wireless Router (netgear) and a USB wireless adapter for this setup and I only need about a 50 foot range (also through two walls), signal strength is very good and haven't had any issues. I like to eliminate cables where I can. Also the Quartet is the only props I'm controlling with VSA.


OK, so your using Wifi, but that only has a range of 100' or if you live in a brick built house just about the next room.

Eliminating cables is exactly what DMX is about, you could even go to wireless DMX, you use just one cable for every prop in your haunted house... your not going to completely eliminate all cables because you still need power and what about sound? rather that concentrate on impossible cable elimination you need to think about cable management.

'I've only got the one prop' is what everyone says when they dismiss the benefits of using a proper controls architecture.... and next year you may only have 2 or 3, eventually you get to a point where you no longer have just a couple of props and find that your simple controls have become a liability rather than an asset....trust me Ive made that mistake myself!

And don't forget the huge range of off the shelf DMX lights and effects that you can buy that just plug straight into your DMX chain, last year I bought several DMX fog machines and an awesome 1500W DMX strobe light, this year I've bought a DMX strobing UV light, which straight out the box plugs into my existing control system.. as well as a growing collection of RGB lamps, and DMX Skulls, Ive probably now got about 25 DMX devices that all get controlled from a single cable


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

stop pushing.


----------



## Phoenix

jesus christ, isnt there any contribution I can make to this bloody website without having to clear it with you!


----------



## HalloweenBob

Let's all play nice...

Here's my opinion. The DMX stuff sounds fantastic, although I haven't used any of it yet and admit that I don't fully understand how it all get's controlled. I think it probably is the most professional and the cleanest alternative. I simply didn't have the budget for it. 

My system was not as complicated as all that. I had (and Troy now has) a simple string of lights (On/Off no fading or color changing) and the quartet itself. That was it.

In order to make it all neat without people seeing me start anything and to keep my wire runs short, this is what I did.

I put the desktop out right next to the setup hiding it behind some tombstones and props.

I ran a macro program (Macro Express Download) that I bought for other things quite a while ago. With the macro program, I automated my routines so I could play clusters of them in order with no gaps between them and start the sets at specified times.

I realize that if you buy VSA console (Which I did) and Exorcist (skullTronix), you can do that same thing without all the programming. But again, I didn't have the budget.

Since then, I have gotten another program from nbviper on this forum called ComposeIt. He asked me to try it out and I did. I love it and will be using it this year for grouping together routines. Check that out at (Welcome to MonkeyBasic). This program also requires VSA Console. Anyway, if you are interested in a way to organize playlists of routines, to loop them, or preload them and get them to play one after another with no delay, you have 3 options that I know of.

1. Buy a macro program like I did and program it yourself (Macro Express Download)
2. Buy Exorcist (skullTronix)
3. Buy ComposIt (Welcome to MonkeyBasic)

Or, I suppose if you are a programmer, you could write your own solution. I encourage everyone who wants to be able to do this sort of automation with VSA to look over ALL these options. Weigh all the pros and cons of each. Decide how much you can afford to spend, and then decide for yourself which works best for you. We don't need to argue about it here, just present options for people to look over themselves.

Finally, as mentioned by Troy, I did use a wireless connection to my PC in order to monitor it from inside my house. I bought a linksys USB wireless access point (



) and hooked it up to my computer. I have a Netgear wireless N Router (



) that had plenty of range. I was able to connect to my computer from inside my house which was about 200 feet away from the PC with no problems using free remote access software from 



. 

By the way Troy, you listed it as LogMeOn.com....It's actually LogMeIn.com just in case anyone wanted to use it.

Of course, the distance you are able to achieve will bepend on your equipment, and the area you are in, the walls in your house, etc. but you should be able to get a fair distance away.

To be fair, I really didn't control the whole thing remotely....I monitored it. My macro program ran the routines all night automatically. I just checked in to make sure it was going smoothly, and occasionally decided to run a set of routines early if a crowd had gathered.

That is my explanation of what Troy was talking about, and what I am planning to do this year differently.

This is a very long thread with TONS of fantastic information in it that is very useful to a lot of people. I ask that people posting here refrain from fighting. Just list your information so that others can benefit from it and leave it at that. I would hate to see this post degenerate and get closed.


----------



## puterdoc

Thanks for all of the fantastic information HB. Keep up the good work.


----------



## Dr Morbius

Love the Macro idea HB, and I used the ever budget friendly (FREE!!) Autohotkey. AutoHotkey - Free Mouse and Keyboard Macro Program with Hotkeys and AutoText 
It comes with a macro recorder for both mouse and keyboard and it works GREAT with no script writing needed. The only problem I had with it was it wouldn't pause the keystrokes long enough to allow a routine to run so the work around to it was to edit the script and locate where the {ENTER} commands were to start each routine and I simply add a "Sleep" command followed by a number. The number is in 1000th of a second, so a 30 second routine would be 30000. 

Sleep, 30000 

Simple! Also, so I wouldn't have to attach a monitor or keyboard or mouse to the PC outside I put the macro in the wndows STARTUP folder. Just plug in the PC, turn it on and it loads windows (of course) then the macro which loads VSA, sorts out the windows, routine order, and starts ALL BY ITSELF!!! If you want a FREE way to autoload vsa and start routines then autohotkey is by far and away the best alternative. For free, I think it's the only one, no VSA consol needed. Just tile your VSA routines in the main window and record.


----------



## Dr Morbius

My test script for Capt Jacks routines look like this after I recorded my mouse and key strokes.

Run, C:\Program Files\Brookshire Software\Visual Show Automation\VSA.exe
WinWait, VSA - [VSA1], 
IfWinNotActive, VSA - [VSA1], , WinActivate, VSA - [VSA1], 
WinWaitActive, VSA - [VSA1], 
MouseClick, left, 42, 28
Sleep, 100
MouseClick, left, 70, 156
Sleep, 100
WinWait, VSA - [YoHoYoHoAPiratesLifeForMe], 
IfWinNotActive, VSA - [YoHoYoHoAPiratesLifeForMe], , WinActivate, VSA - [YoHoYoHoAPiratesLifeForMe], 
WinWaitActive, VSA - [YoHoYoHoAPiratesLifeForMe], 
MouseClick, left, 34, 32
Sleep, 100
MouseClick, left, 61, 156
Sleep, 100
WinWait, VSA - [15menOnADeadMansChest-5Part], 
IfWinNotActive, VSA - [15menOnADeadMansChest-5Part], , WinActivate, VSA - [15menOnADeadMansChest-5Part], 
WinWaitActive, VSA - [15menOnADeadMansChest-5Part], 
MouseClick, left, 236, 27
Sleep, 100
MouseClick, left, 252, 143
Sleep, 100
WinWait, VSA - [YoHoYoHoAPiratesLifeForMe], 
IfWinNotActive, VSA - [YoHoYoHoAPiratesLifeForMe], , WinActivate, VSA - [YoHoYoHoAPiratesLifeForMe], 
WinWaitActive, VSA - [YoHoYoHoAPiratesLifeForMe], 
MouseClick, left, 236, 28
Sleep, 100
MouseClick, left, 238, 93
Sleep, 100
WinWait, VSA - YoHoYoHoAPiratesLifeForMe, 
IfWinNotActive, VSA - YoHoYoHoAPiratesLifeForMe, , WinActivate, VSA - YoHoYoHoAPiratesLifeForMe, 
WinWaitActive, VSA - YoHoYoHoAPiratesLifeForMe, 
MouseClick, left, 915, 392
Sleep, 100
MouseClick, left, 901, 79
Sleep, 100
WinWait, VSA - [YoHoYoHoAPiratesLifeForMe], 
IfWinNotActive, VSA - [YoHoYoHoAPiratesLifeForMe], , WinActivate, VSA - [YoHoYoHoAPiratesLifeForMe], 
WinWaitActive, VSA - [YoHoYoHoAPiratesLifeForMe], 
MouseClick, left, 253, 38
Sleep, 100
MouseClick, left, 250, 87
Sleep, 100
Send, {ENTER}
Sleep, 32000
WinWait, VSA - YoHoYoHoAPiratesLifeForMe, 
IfWinNotActive, VSA - YoHoYoHoAPiratesLifeForMe, , WinActivate, VSA - YoHoYoHoAPiratesLifeForMe, 
WinWaitActive, VSA - YoHoYoHoAPiratesLifeForMe, 
Send, `{ESC}{ALTDOWN}w{ALTUP}{DOWN}{DOWN}{DOWN}{DOWN}{DOWN}{ENTER}
{ENTER}
Sleep, 50000
WinWait, VSA - 15menOnADeadMansChest-5Part, 
IfWinNotActive, VSA - 15menOnADeadMansChest-5Part, , WinActivate, VSA - 15menOnADeadMansChest-5Part, 
WinWaitActive, VSA - 15menOnADeadMansChest-5Part, 
Send, {ESC}


The sleep commands are in red the ones I added. Try it!! any questions, just ask.


----------



## HalloweenBob

For mine, I had the macro pre-load all my routines into VSA and then scroll through the active window list in the menu top choose which routine to play. I also had to add a time delay as it played the routine which was accurate to within half a second, then it would play the next routine that was already loaded.

So, no waiting for a routine to load and no pause between routines.

I do find that the software specifically written for creating playlists with VSA routines are the way to go if you have a lot of them.

The two I am aware of are exorcist and ComposeIt as I mentioned and linked to a few posts up.


----------



## Dr Morbius

HalloweenBob said:


> For mine, I had the macro pre-load all my routines into VSA and then scroll through the active window list in the menu top choose which routine to play. I also had to add a time delay as it played the routine which was accurate to within half a second, then it would play the next routine that was already loaded.
> 
> So, no waiting for a routine to load and no pause between routines.
> 
> I do find that the software specifically written for creating playlists with VSA routines are the way to go if you have a lot of them.
> 
> The two I am aware of are exorcist and ComposeIt as I mentioned and linked to a few posts up.


Yup, me too using the macros. Not sure why a long play list is limitation on using a macro though. You don't have to use the menu bar to scroll for the routines, but it is easier to record a macro that way. How many routines DOES the menu bar hold anyways? I never found out.


----------



## HalloweenBob

I used 9 routines and was able to preload them all. I haven't tried more than that.


----------



## Dr Morbius

HalloweenBob said:


> I used 9 routines and was able to preload them all. I haven't tried more than that.


I can't imagine having any more than that for my haunt. Now a pro haunt may be different, but for our front lawns that's more than enough. Thanks again for pointing me in the direction to macro magic. A simply wonderful tool that everyone using VSA on a budget should try.


----------



## dionicia

And the Doc teases up with a new thing to try without providing a website.

Getting yer tricks in early?


----------



## Dr Morbius

dionicia said:


> And the Doc teases up with a new thing to try without providing a website.
> 
> Getting yer tricks in early?


AutoHotkey - Free Mouse and Keyboard Macro Program with Hotkeys and AutoText I posted that site a few posts back. Ohhh, you must mean my "Macro Magic" comment....That's just my term of endearment for macros in general.


----------



## Dr Morbius

TO Gym Ghost and anyone else using 3 axis plates for buckies...I had a thought.
Why is the NOD servo located in the BACK of the plate instead of in front? Picture the large hole in the plate, with the 3 rectangles cut out for the servos. The rear one is for the nod servo. If that rectangle cutout were placed in the opposite side of the hole, wouldn't that give the servo more leverage and thereby negeating the need for a more expensive servo?


----------



## keepsmiling

Originally Posted by gym_ghost 
I will start a new thread on the hand. I just spoke with the other partner and we will release some photos and video later next week. This is for one hand: 4th class bucky hand, 2 HS-55, about 16" of 2-56 thread rod, 4 torsion springs (180 degrees) and 1 torsion springs (360 degrees), 8 nylon 1/8" bushing, and 20 lb fishing line. To build one will take about 3 hours from start to finish. One hour to assembly, two hours to adjust everything.

Joel

I can't find this anywhere. Did Gym_Ghost ever post how to do this?

Thanks
Terry


----------



## Dr Morbius

Nope.............


----------



## wicc_ed

Dr Morbius said:


> TO Gym Ghost and anyone else using 3 axis plates for buckies...I had a thought.
> Why is the NOD servo located in the BACK of the plate instead of in front? Picture the large hole in the plate, with the 3 rectangles cut out for the servos. The rear one is for the nod servo. If that rectangle cutout were placed in the opposite side of the hole, wouldn't that give the servo more leverage and thereby negeating the need for a more expensive servo?


In either skull the weight is in the face, putting the servo at the back of the head adds weight there to help counter balance the face. If it were in the front it would be to heavy for the servo to lift.


----------



## Phoenix

HalloweenBob said:


> For mine, I had the macro pre-load all my routines into VSA and then scroll through the active window list in the menu top choose which routine to play. I also had to add a time delay as it played the routine which was accurate to within half a second, then it would play the next routine that was already loaded.
> 
> So, no waiting for a routine to load and no pause between routines.
> 
> I do find that the software specifically written for creating playlists with VSA routines are the way to go if you have a lot of them.
> 
> The two I am aware of are exorcist and ComposeIt as I mentioned and linked to a few posts up.


ComposeIt is a poor comparison to Exorcist, its more akin to Sequencer.

Exorcist is developed more as a control system for an entire haunt, it can and indeed frequently is used to drive a single prop or set but that is only scraping the surface of its capabilities.


----------



## gmacted

Dr Morbius said:


> TO Gym Ghost and anyone else using 3 axis plates for buckies...I had a thought.
> Why is the NOD servo located in the BACK of the plate instead of in front? Picture the large hole in the plate, with the 3 rectangles cut out for the servos. The rear one is for the nod servo. If that rectangle cutout were placed in the opposite side of the hole, wouldn't that give the servo more leverage and thereby negeating the need for a more expensive servo?


I agree with wicc-ed on this one. All the weight is in the front of a bucky skull. I've been using HS645MG Hitec servos on my two 3-axis bucky skulls. Yes they're expensive, but they should last a long time.

I think Gym Ghost did a lot of testing with configurations.


----------



## RBC

keepsmiling said:


> Originally Posted by gym_ghost
> I will start a new thread on the hand. I just spoke with the other partner and we will release some photos and video later next week. This is for one hand: 4th class bucky hand, 2 HS-55, about 16" of 2-56 thread rod, 4 torsion springs (180 degrees) and 1 torsion springs (360 degrees), 8 nylon 1/8" bushing, and 20 lb fishing line. To build one will take about 3 hours from start to finish. One hour to assembly, two hours to adjust everything.
> 
> Joel
> 
> I can't find this anywhere. Did Gym_Ghost ever post how to do this?
> 
> Thanks
> Terry


Keepsmiling Hey, There is no How To on the hand. Wicc-ed You did a Great job on explaining why Thanks


----------



## HalloweenBob

Phoenix,

Sorry, that was apples and oranges. 

I was comparing tools based on only what I needed them to do. I didn't need all the other features that exorcist has....not yet. So to buy it JUST as a tool for sequencing VSA routines, it is a bit pricey compared to other tools that do that.

However, if you are going to use more or all of it's features, then it becomes much more of a bargain.

I didn't mean to diminish the program or it's features, I just was saying that if you want to sequence VSA routines, here are some options that do it. It seems that I forgot to even mention Sequencer. What is the link for that if people want to check it out?


----------



## Phoenix

Info an sequencer is on the SkullTroniX site, its a very simple loop player program.


----------



## Dr Morbius

gmacted said:


> I agree with wicc-ed on this one. All the weight is in the front of a bucky skull. I've been using HS645MG Hitec servos on my two 3-axis bucky skulls. Yes they're expensive, but they should last a long time.
> 
> I think Gym Ghost did a lot of testing with configurations.


I would think the leverage you get by placing the very light servo in front would off set any weight issues. I just never saw it done and was curious. I see why you guys might think the servo would add weight if placed in front, it SEEMS logical. The only way is to try it I guess.


----------



## HalloweenBob

I believe that the way it is currently set up, the skull is pretty much balanced as is.

The weight of the three servos where they are balance out the weight of the extra plastic in the skull mold in the front, meaning that without the servos energized, the skull should balance on the center rod without leaning in any direction.

I see no advantage to placing the nod servo in the front. Besides that, it would start to get crowded up there especially if you are adding jaw servos and mechanisms for eye motion.

By the way, you CAn rebalance the skull after adding in those other servos by moving the rod end assembly in and out on it's threads.

I am now working with several kits from Gym Ghost, so I will know soon about all the balance issues and how to adjust them all.

I am planning a detailed step by step instruction page on the process of putting together the kit.


----------



## dionicia

I am waiting on pins and needles for your instructions HB.

I want to make sure when the skulls I made start their run, they don't start to jitter and fall apart (jaw already fell off one mid sentence but I think that was a loose jaw).


----------



## HalloweenBob

I had a lindberg with a loose jaw. I fixed the problem by heating the chin area of the jaw with a heat gun from the front and the back until it became soft enough to bend. Then I bent it in very slightly so that it would fit on the skull tighter.

I ran cold water over it when I had it bent just where I wanted it to cool it down and harden it up. It works great now.

I squeezed the outer edges in about a quarter of an inch. That's all it took. Be careful not to use too much heat and melt the thing! Just heat it enough to make it plyable. It will not melt away the textured molding of the bone if you do it right.

I should have a detailed kit assembly instruction page available in the next few days.


----------



## gym_ghost

Folks,
I want to stress, once the servo is energized, the nodded will not be an issue. When not energized, it will nod forward. Also, I highly recommend you offset the nod servo arm back (torward the back of the skull) by at least 12 degrees from centerline. And I highly recommend you not have the servos extend to their max movement. This will prematurely kill or damage the servos. 

Adding a HS55 to move the jaw is not an issue. I have built many this way and so far the HS645 and 625 have held up okay. 

Now, we're working on the eyes and its requiring an additional two servos to be mounting on the servo plate. This is causing a weight ratio problem and we're looking at using a spring to control forward nod. We're building some prototypes and hopefully will have this resolved over the next few weeks. As HBob mentioned, we're working closely together to build a much better product. He is aggressively testing and the like and is providing GYM valuable feedback. 

I hope this helps?

Gym / Joel


----------



## gym_ghost

HAND: Regarding the hand - we have some working models - unfortunately, it was place on the back burner. We have received so many orders and some big jobs - all of our time is devoted to filling orders, these big jobs, and perfecting the 3-axis skull. . I would not hold your breath for this year. Definitely by January 2008 we will have the kits available to build the hands. My apologizes for jumping the gun on this.

EYES: And about the eyes - we manage to come up with a system for the eyes. Works off a pivot point system. The problem were encountering, you cannot take one set of eyes and put it in another skull without some heavy edits to your program. We have “off source” this to another engineering firm and they are currently working on what is causing this. We will have an answer back this week. Once we find out the problem, we do plan to go into pre-production immediately, and sending out the kits to those folks we have already contacted. Once we get their feedback and we feel comfortable with going forward, we will begin to offer them to the public. If everything goes to plan, we should have them available by August 25. I know this is cutting it close, but we must make sure it works!!!

Gym / Joel


----------



## gym_ghost

And last but not least - anyone thinking about ordering the lindberg or bucky kit should do so now. Halloween is only 3 short months away. Come Sept 12, 2008 - I plan to shut down the shop so I can concentrate on my haunt. If you wish to place an order or have custom routines done, please contact either myself or HalloweenBob. If you wish to wait until next week, Graveyardmadness Stores will be online with all the parts necessary to build a 3-axis skull. But again, Sept. 12 the shop is shut down.

Gym / Joel 

Joel


----------



## clee

*remedial help*

I have watched the videos on the 3 axis and understand the servos. Now I am trying to figure out how to get the computer to run them. I need info on program of hardware to get to make it work. Any help would greatly be appreciated. Also, I'm not real technical so please explain in short bus rider terms. THanks in advance


----------



## clee

Meant program and hardware to make it work.


----------



## HalloweenBob

I know it's hard to find the info in this thread, but it's all there. Probably within the first 25 pages or so.

The software that everyone is using is Brookshire Software's VSA (Brookshire Software - Visual Show Automation (VSA) - The Solution for Show Control Software). It's about $55.00 although there are some group buys going on from time to time, to bring the cost down.

You will also need a servo controller board. People use different ones. There are several that will all do the job.

I use this one: Lynxmotion - SSC-32 Servo Controller #C-100-SV-SSC-32


You will need those two parts to get started. Once you have the software and have read through the FAQs, feel free to ask questions here. Once you get familiar with it, it is not hard to use.


----------



## Haunted Wolf

I think most people here have been using VSA software to run their skulls. Capt. Jack is working a group buy on it...you may want to jump on it. Go here:

http://halloweenforum.com/group-buys/67858-vsa-group-buy-11.html#post476250

Basically you connect the servo controller of your choice to your computer and VSA will run it. Pretty straight forward.


----------



## clee

Thanks everyone. I love the little bus versions. Excellent job on the animatronics. Up I can one day be up to all of ya'll standards.


----------



## Highball

Clee,
Check out page 53, post #529 by CaptnJackSparrow he list pretty much what you need.


----------



## Highball

HalloweenBob,
On your Skull plate template ,do the lines you put on the side come out to EXACTLY 1 inch or is it a 32nd under . I've tried printing it a couple of different ways but nothing is coming out EXACTLY 1 inch.
Highball


----------



## HalloweenBob

They should come out to exactly 1 inch. If they don't, then whatever program you are using to print it is shrinking it slightly to fit the page with margins, etc.

This is what I would do...Print it out and go to a print shop like Kinkos or somewhere with a really high end copy machine that you can use.

Make copies enlarging it by a tiny percentage each time until it comes out right.


----------



## dadgonemad

*It's ALIVE!!!*

It's ALIVE!! I've finally finished my first 3-axis skull! 

I built the GraveYardMadness Bucky (long live the Bucky!) skull kit with 645MG servos for axis control, and a 422 servo for the jaw. I'm using the SSC-32 with Cat5 cabling, and I added a set of LED eyes.

For those of you that don't know already, I must point out that the parts in these GYM kits are great. Professionally engineered, machined, quality products. To take it further, it's really the service he provides that shows the true dedication Gym_Ghost has to his work and product. Any issues I encountered, he was able to address quickly and help me through it via both email and phone. When an improvement was made, he shipped out replacement parts free of charge. This is what customer service should be! Thanks, Gym_Ghost, for doing the heavy lifting on such a cool prop. I plan on building more of these for next year! Keep up the great work!

Also, I'd be remiss if I didn't thank HalloweenBob for getting this craze started, and Capt. Jack Sparrow and RBC for the group buys that made this a bit more affordable. What a great community.

Here's a video of the rough test animation I've thrown together. Credit goes to Dusza Beben for providing the pirate monologue. It's too jerky right now, but you get the idea. I can see myself spending hours perfecting the movements. It's like an addiction...

YouTube - 3-axis skull test

-dgm


----------



## wicc_ed

DGMad, did you use the wave analysis for your rutine or a joystick? (Mouth appears to have extra movements that the analysis always gave me). The joystick capture is a little more time consuming, since you have to record each servo movement one by one, but gives it a much smoother look.
Other than that it looks pretty good.. great job!


----------



## dadgonemad

Hi Wicc_ed, 

Yeah, I used the wave analysis for the jaw. I tried adjusting the max error to smooth it out as much as possible, but it clearly suffers from those extra events. Fortunately, this is just my test routine. I plan on re-animating it with a joystick to slow it down and smooth it out.

Thanks!
dgm


----------



## gym_ghost

Dadgonemad

Sniff... thanks for the kind words and I am glad to see another Bucky is alive. It was my pleasure and congratulations for such a terrifying and terrific skull!!!!

Graveyardmadness / Gym_Ghost / Joel


----------



## clee

Do you happen to have anymore of these kits available?


----------



## gym_ghost

Yes. We have hundreds of kits available. Contact me at sales at graveyardmadness dot com.

Thanks,
joel


----------



## clee

I tried your website but it still says you are down for construction


----------



## gym_ghost

Wiring and Servo lost... here is some data we received from an engineer friend of mine:


After our discussion the other day regarding Ethernet cable, I contacted my electronic expert and explained to him what were doing. He ran some numbers and came back with the following. 

Ethernet is either 22 or 24 gauge. 24 gauge is typically consider thin. 22 is standard. Using a formula of 6V at 2.5 AMPs for the 22: at 50 feet, we will loose 1 volt. At 100 feet, 2 volts. He recommends not using Ethernet, but the following:

Outside Diameter	.16"
Type	Multiconductor Cable and Cord
Multiconductor Cable and Cord Type	Thermostat Cable
Volts	150 VAC
Amps	Not Rated
Gauge (AWG)	20
Number of Conductors	6
Shielded	Unshielded
Conductor Type	Solid
Conductor Material	Copper
Conductor Insulation Material	Polypropylene
Jacket Material	PVC
Jacket Color	Brown
Insulation Cord Color(s)	Red, White, Green
70985K75


----------



## gym_ghost

Website should be up by Friday. if you cant wait until then, you can contat me at sales at graveyardmadness dot com


----------



## HomeyDaClown

gym_ghost said:


> Wiring and Servo lost... here is some data we received from an engineer friend of mine:
> 
> 
> After our discussion the other day regarding Ethernet cable, I contacted my electronic expert and explained to him what were doing. He ran some numbers and came back with the following.
> 
> Ethernet is either 22 or 24 gauge. 24 gauge is typically consider thin. 22 is standard. Using a formula of 6V at 2.5 AMPs for the 22: at 50 feet, we will loose 1 volt. At 100 feet, 2 volts. He recommends not using Ethernet, but the following:
> 
> Outside Diameter .16"
> Type Multiconductor Cable and Cord
> Multiconductor Cable and Cord Type Thermostat Cable
> Volts 150 VAC
> Amps Not Rated
> Gauge (AWG) 20
> Number of Conductors 6
> Shielded Unshielded
> Conductor Type Solid
> Conductor Material Copper
> Conductor Insulation Material Polypropylene
> Jacket Material PVC
> Jacket Color Brown
> Insulation Cord Color(s) Red, White, Green
> 70985K75


You can simply double up on the Cat5 to double it's current carrying capabilities. If you just double a few leads and dedicate them for servo power, the servo data lines do not require much and can be run a good distance. I think many (including me) have already used this technique to great success. Besides, I've got over two thousand feet of Cat5 in the garage to use up.


----------



## Dr Morbius

Got the servos and linkages assembled on the plate and parts from gymghost and Captjack..fired it up on a Parallax (I also got a SSC32 for a different app)...WORKS GREAT!! The range of motion isn's as much as my homebrew mech, but it's sufficient. Video soon.


----------



## gym_ghost

Understand HomeyDaClown,
Myself, I just like to keep things clean - easier to find problems later on down the road. From past experience, I can tell you that 75% of my Halloween display problems stem from wiring issues. Myself, I too have used the ethernet wire and it worked okay (distance no more than 50'). But unfortunately for this year's haunt, I am running approximately 1,200' of wire and controlling approximately 23 props. 

And under no circumstances I'm I saying it won't work. Myself, I am just going to upgrade the wiring to be more robust and allow better traceability with troubleshooting.

Joel


----------



## dadgonemad

I'm using cat5, and have doubled up for the power leads. I've even noticed that at 25 feet, my LED eyes (that pull from the same power) dim when the servos move at top speed (mostly the jaw). But at 3-ft, it's imperceptable.

I don't feel comfortable going more than 25 ft. As I build more of these, I may consider powering the servos and eyes locally, and just using the cat5 to send the servo signals. With 2-axis eyes, the servo count becomes six, so cat5 alone won't be able to handle the load. 

Is there an 8-conductor wire that can carry the signals and load a considerable distance?

-dgm


----------



## HalloweenBob

Yes, there is, but it can get expensive depending on the number of wires and the gauge.

Start by going to McMaster-Carr at McMaster-Carr and type "multiconductor wire" into the search box.

You can select many different options including number of conductors, stranded or solid wire, amperage it can handle, etc.

The wire recommended by Gym_Ghost above is listed on McMaster.com. It is part number 70985K75. Just type that into the search box.

That wire isn't all that expensive, just 28 cents per foot.

In fact, if you really wanted to make a long wire run, you could bump it up to 18 Ga wire and use part number 70985K75. That is 46 cents per foot.


----------



## HomeyDaClown

dadgonemad said:


> I'm using cat5, and have doubled up for the power leads. I've even noticed that at 25 feet, my LED eyes (that pull from the same power) dim when the servos move at top speed (mostly the jaw). But at 3-ft, it's imperceptable.
> 
> I don't feel comfortable going more than 25 ft. As I build more of these, I may consider powering the servos and eyes locally, and just using the cat5 to send the servo signals. With 2-axis eyes, the servo count becomes six, so cat5 alone won't be able to handle the load.
> 
> Is there an 8-conductor wire that can carry the signals and load a considerable distance?
> 
> -dgm


You could also separate the data and power feeds, and use a heavier gauge zip cord (18 or 16 gauge) to carry the power.
Or,
Use a separate power source local to the skulls ( i think drummerdude did this in his setup). Just make sure they share a common ground.


----------



## Evil Bob

It's elegant to have all data and power lines in one cable, but I think splitting off the power lines is a good idea.


HomeyDaClown said:


> You could also separate the data and power feeds, and use a heavier gauge zip cord (18 or 16 gauge) to carry the power.
> Or,
> Use a separate power source local to the skulls ( i think drummerdude did this in his setup). Just make sure they share a common ground.


----------



## Dr Morbius

In a seperate local power source scheme, how would the servo controller be wired? Doesn't the powers source need to go through the board? If so, how would having a local power source close to the skulls save on cabling?


----------



## Phoenix

You just have to link the 0V between the Power source for the board and the power source for the servos


----------



## skullboy

When a servo is powered on and holding the weight of the skull(nod) is it normal for servo to make a buzzing noise or does that mean I have a problem?(without skull weight it is quiet.)


----------



## gmacted

I'm using the Cat 5e cable for the control wiring and zip cord for the power. I'm using two ethernet lines (i.e. green, green/white) per servo for the control and am just connecting power to the servos.

Dr. M,

To answer your question. The servos need power, but not necessarily through the control board. The control board, however, may need the 4.8V - 6V also. I'm not sure as I am using a prop-sx with VSA to control my skulls. The prop-sx has an on-board 5V regulator that supplies the control voltages to the servos.


----------



## gmacted

Phoenix_UK said:


> You just have to link the 0V between the Power source for the board and the power source for the servos


Just make sure you do this at one point and one point only as you could start creating ground loops. That would not be good.


----------



## gmacted

skullboy said:


> When a servo is powered on and holding the weight of the skull(nod) is it normal for servo to make a buzzing noise or does that mean I have a problem?(without skull weight it is quiet.)


Gym Ghost suggested that you adjust the nod to look slightly upward (at least 12 degrees from centerline). This may be the reason he suggested it. There may be too much strain on the servos otherwise. Just a guess though.


----------



## Dr Morbius

Phoenix_UK said:


> You just have to link the 0V between the Power source for the board and the power source for the servos


By that you mean share a common ground between two seperate power sources one for servos and another for controller board?


----------



## HomeyDaClown

Dr Morbius said:


> By that you mean share a common ground between two seperate power sources one for servos and another for controller board?


Exactly. Everything needs to reference a common ground connection.

This also facilitates running a controller on a 5 volt supply and the servos on 6 volts (for more torque).


----------



## Running_Scared

Another good wire to use is sprinkler wire. For example Lowes has 50 feet of 7 conductor 18 awg wire for $17.57, that comes out to 35 cents per foot and you don't have to pay shipping. You can get different lengths and more conductors if needed.


----------



## gym_ghost

I'm sorry I think I confused you with the 12 degrees on center line. Keep the skull level. The nod servo arm should be off center back toward the skull by 12 degrees. Let me take some pictures. Tonight is catch up on emails and getting orders out. I am about a week behind. Shame on me!!!

Joel


----------



## gym_ghost

Speaking of dudedrummer, has anyone heard from him. I dropped of a few skeleton models a few weeks back and email. To date, I have heard nothing from him. 

Thanks
Joel


----------



## skullboy

Thanks gym,I think I understand.
So unless servo is in motion it should be making no noise at center,Is that correct?


----------



## dadgonemad

If it's a Bucky, and the servos are energized, the nod servo will make a little buzzing sound as it is keeping the skull up and level. When the servo is de-engergized, the skull will nod back down. The buzzing you're hearing is just the servo working to keep the skull level. 

I asked GYM the same question and he confirmed that this is normal for the bucky. The 12-degree servo horn repositioning will just take some of the torque off the servo so it doesn't have to work as hard to keep the head up.

-dgm


----------



## skullboy

AH,Thank you.Thats what I needed to know.


----------



## buckaneerbabe

gym_ghost said:


> Speaking of dudedrummer, has anyone heard from him. I dropped of a few skeleton models a few weeks back and email. To date, I have heard nothing from him.
> 
> I was wondering that myself. I too left him a note and haven't heard back either, I think between school and work he's on overload...Thinking of going to Disneyland next week, maybe even get a 2 park pass and hunt that dude down!!


----------



## gym_ghost

Folks,
This last batch of 4th Class Bucky Skulls... wow. I am not sure what happen, but they weigh an additional 5 oz and it shows. We had to dremel away alot of material to make our servo plate and axis bracket fit. 

And looking at them, I think they are from another mold... the injection pin is in a different location. 

I'm not going to adjust the plates to fit them until I get confirmation that in fact a new mold has been put in service and what happen to the old mold (or was it modified/reworked). 

I will keep you posted... I will get some pictures posted here shortly on what needs to be dremel out/removed.

Thanks
Joel


----------



## keepsmiling

Hello
Does anyone have a template of that A shaped metal bracket that goes on the lexan plate?
Thanks
Terry


----------



## Highball

Keepsmiling,
HalloweenBob posted a template for his on page 12, post #112. Captjack posted a video with his bracket on page 52.
Highball


----------



## gym_ghost

Finally... I got the store up. This should greatly accelerate shipping and invoicing. I have listed the most common parts for the 3-axis skulls here. Not trying to push my products, I just a lot of you have emailed me about ordering and such and I have been putting you off.

Graveyardmadness - The Ultimate Props For Your Halloween Scare

Paypal is accepted and will be paid through via email. Sometime next week we will have the means to do credit card and automatic paypal payment.

So order away. 

Joel / Graveyardmadness


----------



## keepsmiling

Thank you, Highball


----------



## clee

We are doing a tour of local haunts in the area and i want to use the 3 axis for the front of the bus as a tour guide. My question is can the axis be controlled manually instead of going through the programmable program. If so how do you do it. Remember I need the little bus instructions.


----------



## gym_ghost

Hmmm.... a couple of suggestions... go with a programmable servo sound controller card. Unfortunately, you would only have one routine, but you can input your voice to make the jaw move. 

Gym

Welcome to Graveyardmadness


----------



## Phoenix

Funnily enough we has a customer asking for something very similar with Magic Motion, where the driver could control a skull whilst he was driving and narrate the tour.


----------



## Highball

> We are doing a tour of local haunts in the area and i want to use the 3 axis for the front of the bus as a tour guide. My question is can the axis be controlled manually instead of going through the programmable program. If so how do you do it. Remember I need the little bus instructions.


 Clee,
Depending on how "manually" you want to get , I would say the easiest way to do it, would be to use a Radio remote controller, like the kind used for RC airplanes. It's wireless and you could work it from anywhere on the bus. I have a Futaba Radio that Ive used with servos to trip a couple of props ( nothing major just a lid on one prop and a snake that shot across the driveway ) its easy you plug the servos and battery into the reciever and start moving the skull.
Highball


----------



## clee

I forgot I have an old busted RC plane in the attic. Have to check storage for controller. Thanks


----------



## Dark Hawke

*VSA Play back question*

I"m to the point where I'm trying out VSA. I've hooked up 3 servos and have everything communicating. When i create an event for a servo, the servo moves to the location defined in the event.
When i hit play, the servos set back to the default location as they should, but then do not react to the events being played. 
The devices are enabled.
I've been looking in the FAQ's' for VSA, and have searched for a VSA Forum but have found nothing to help.
Any ideas ?


----------



## skullboy

Have you checked your PORT settings?


----------



## Abunai

Dark Hawke said:


> I"m to the point where I'm trying out VSA. I've hooked up 3 servos and have everything communicating. When i create an event for a servo, the servo moves to the location defined in the event.
> When i hit play, the servos set back to the default location as they should, but then do not react to the events being played.
> The devices are enabled.
> I've been looking in the FAQ's' for VSA, and have searched for a VSA Forum but have found nothing to help.
> Any ideas ?


That is an odd problem. 

Are you defining an event manually (click and drag with a mouse, then setting the start and stop positions?) Or, are you using motion capture?
My guess is motion capture, since I normally do mine manually, and I don't believe that I see my servos move as I'm defining the event....just when I play it back. 

I would double-click on the event and re-verify that the start and stop positions for the event are correct. 

Also check the duration of the event. Is it possible that you are trying to go from one position...running an event...and returning to the original position in a period of time that is too short for the servo to react in real-time?


----------



## gym_ghost

More tilt and nod can be achieved with the Lindberg or Bucky.

Folks, last night HalloweenBob and myself spent a few hours working on some routines with understanding how to better improve the tilt and nod on the 3-axis skulls. The 3/16 rod ends I have been supplying are limited to 10 degrees +/- 2 degrees. McMaster Carr sells a rod end that achieves 13 degrees +2 degrees or even a 17 degree (which I have not tried out yet). Going forward with my kits, I will only be supplying the McMaster 13 degree rod end The McMaster Part number is 2458K111 or 60645K111. 

Based on skulls I have built and those skulls posted here with my parts, I feel okay with the rod end supplied to you. The McMaster Carr rodend will just give you more tilt and nod. 

But again, going forward, I will only be supplying the McMaster RodEnd.

Thanks
Joel / Graveyardmadness


----------



## dadgonemad

Dark Hawke said:


> I"m to the point where I'm trying out VSA. I've hooked up 3 servos and have everything communicating. When i create an event for a servo, the servo moves to the location defined in the event.
> When i hit play, the servos set back to the default location as they should, but then do not react to the events being played.
> The devices are enabled.
> I've been looking in the FAQ's' for VSA, and have searched for a VSA Forum but have found nothing to help.
> Any ideas ?



If you're manipulating the virtual servo arm in VSA for the event properties, the servo will move to that new position as you command it. However, you have to hit the "capture" button to save that end position in the actual event. Otherwise, the start and end positions will remain the same as before you started once you close the properties box.

Hope this helps, 
dgm


----------



## Dark Hawke

*nod servo straining*

Thanks for all the help, I've go it all working. Even taking a crack at Parlay.
With all of the weight towards the front (forehead) of the skull, my nod servo 'hums'. If i lift slightly, then it stops
has anyone else had this issue and is there anything to worry about (damage to the servo).


----------



## RBC

Dark Hawke said:


> Thanks for all the help, I've go it all working. Even taking a crack at Parlay.
> With all of the weight towards the front (forehead) of the skull, my nod servo 'hums'. If i lift slightly, then it stops
> has anyone else had this issue and is there anything to worry about (damage to the servo).




why is there so much weight in the front? what did you do to it ?do you have pics?


----------



## Skeleton Jay

Joel ... newb here. Not new to the DIY stuff. Started years ago with the FCG and have been playing ever since. Probably going to do a small hack of the grave jumper/barrel jumper this year. Moved into a new house with more room so I can now (after the 3 kids are a bit older and less scared) get back into haunting. I sent you an email to your site asking about the kits for the Lindberg. I am super excited about this project. I am hoping to order kits through you as it is easier than trying to order a zillion parts from a dozen web sites. Hopefully you can help out.

I have made it through much of this post and the info is outstanding. I appreciate all the contribution and hopefully will be able to contribute as I advance in my haunts.


----------



## gym_ghost

Blueshrt94,
Presently, I am concentrating on filling orders. What I thought would be a one or two order per week turned out to be bigger than I thought. Plus I landed two big haunts for the Southern California area. 

Also, HalloweenBob and I are improving the axis configuration on the Lindberg and Bucky. I am doing this for we have pretty much finalized our eye kit and now must make room for it on the servo board that fits in the skull. Since we’re redesigning the board, we also want to incorporate some other improvements: easier adjusting of the center axis balance, servo installation, and fixing some clearance issues. And adding a wire connector hook up to the back of the skull. Also,we're trying to reduce the cost of the kits by $50.

Unfortunately, none of this won’t be rolled out until early next year. Plus, I need to concentrate on my haunt… I am already way behind and I mean way behind.

So my best advice is to purchase the basic kit, and build your own. The basic kit provides 75% of the framework. The rest is servos and linkage. 

I hope this helps!

Graveyardmadness


----------



## Specter

Wow- take a couple months off and this thread explodes even furhter! Geez, I've got some reading to do!


----------



## Skeleton Jay

I understand and wish you much success on those haunts!

So, I open this to anyone willing to reply. I am going to order 1 or 2 Lindberg basic kits. I know I need the skull, servos, board and power supply (plus software). I am making my shopping list now. I will order the following from Joel:

Linberg basic kit ($60)
Rotating arm ($5)
The hardware kit for the servos ($.55)

I will need the following:

Skull ($20)
SSC-32 controller ($40)
3 - 645 servos ($120)
1 - HS-55 servo ($14)
Power supply ($20)
Software ($100)
3 Linkages ($2.25)

What else am I missing? Are there inexpensive servos that can replace the 645 that run $40 a piece or am I looking at the wrong servo?

Any insight provided is greatly appreciated.


----------



## Skeleton Jay

FYI - found some 645's on Ebay for around $27 a piece if those are the servos I need. Listed as 645MG.


----------



## gym_ghost

No need to worry about linkage. I will include it with the kits. In fact, I will be including it going forward. Can't see someone spending $28 for $10 worth of linkage.

Thanks
Gym / Joel


----------



## Skeleton Jay

Thanks so much Joel. I just placed my order via Paypal payment.

BTW, My name is Jamie (male version).


----------



## bandacoot

Hey gym... i emailed with you a week back or so about two kits and haven't heard anything... Just checking to see if you got the order?


----------



## briwesk

Gym i sent you a PM and a message through the ordering on your site.

Just want to make sure I can pay with Money Order


Also, can any of these parts be found at a store? i searched my Hardware stores/tractor supply, autoparts , and hobbyshop, and i cant find anything that looks like it would work.

Doesnt really matter though, because I will just purchase the pre made stuff from Gym


----------



## gym_ghost

Money order or check is fine. I just finished shipping out 24 orders tonight. Still have about 30 to go. Regarding orders, please email me at support at graveyardmadness dot com

Gym


----------



## gym_ghost

Has anyone heard from the thedudedrummer? Its been almost two months and not a word???? I hope he is okay!

Graveyardmadness


----------



## puterdoc

Has anyone had any luck with controlling LED eyes from the SSC-32 and VSA? Since the output of the SSC-32 is pulsed for the servo control purposes, it does not seem like it would be a good source to turn on the LEDs. I've seen a few DIY "switches" that can be used with the pulsed output. Any feedeback, good or bad?


----------



## Phoenix

The kind of PWM that you use for dimming is a 'duty' based PWM, ie if you want 50% brightness then you flash wit a 50% duty

Servo PWM signals are not a duty based signal, it sends a pulse of a measured length 40 times per second, in duty terms the maximum duty of a servo PWM signal is 10%, so if it did work then you would only get 10% brightness


----------



## Dark Hawke

I wrote LynxMotion and asked them this very question. I was told to use device type SSC32 Servo for my Servo's and SSC32 relay for my lights.
I measured about 4.9volts that turns off and on between the pulse and ground.
Each Channel can handle 20ma with a total of 72ma per chip
hope this helps


----------



## puterdoc

Thanks for the feedback so far on controlling the LEDs. Phoenix_UK, that's pretty much what I have been seeing in the little bit of testing I've done so far. Dark Hawke, as I noted when Iasked the question, I've also seen some DIY RC switches that can be built as a substitute. Has anyone had any success with other options for the LEDs? I will probably try one of the DIY options to see how they work.


----------



## gmacted

puterdoc said:


> Thanks for the feedback so far on controlling the LEDs. Phoenix_UK, that's pretty much what I have been seeing in the little bit of testing I've done so far. Dark Hawke, as I noted when Iasked the question, I've also seen some DIY RC switches that can be built as a substitute. Has anyone had any success with other options for the LEDs? I will probably try one of the DIY options to see how they work.


Have you thought of using the EFX-TEK Prop-SX to control the whole thing instead of using the the SSC-32? The Prop-SX can interface with VSA and contol 8 servos and 8 PWM outputs. They have the source code on their forum web site.


----------



## Phoenix

gmacted said:


> Have you thought of using the EFX-TEK Prop-SX to control the whole thing instead of using the the SSC-32? The Prop-SX can interface with VSA and contol 8 servos and 8 PWM outputs. They have the source code on their forum web site.



That's called opening a can-o-worms, alternative servo boards have been suggested before now, and the result was little more than bile and vitriol


----------



## gmacted

Phoenix_UK said:


> That's called opening a can-o-worms, alternative servo boards have been suggested before now, and the result was little more than bile and vitriol


I am personally using the Prop-SX to control eight servos with VSA. It is working great. EFX-TEK also has superb technical support.


----------



## Dark Hawke

*Get greater movement for less than 50 cents*

I'm using one of Gym_Ghost's kits for my 3-axis and have come up with an idea to increase the movement to almost 45 degrees in all directions. 
Ace hardware has brass compression fittings that will fit the small threaded rod. 
They are 1/8 inch and about 17 cents each.


----------



## guitarist155

hunh thats an idea i might have to try this


----------



## HomeyDaClown

Dark Hawke said:


> I'm using one of Gym_Ghost's kits for my 3-axis and have come up with an idea to increase the movement to almost 45 degrees in all directions.
> Ace hardware has brass compression fittings that will fit the small threaded rod.
> They are 1/8 inch and about 17 cents each.


Yes, that was already discussed a long while back, it's the same concept as heim joint spacers. I started testing those on my skulls about the time HB got his quartet going only I'm using larger hardware. Captn Jack was using them as well I think.


----------



## Dark Hawke

Most reading this thread is well aware of this technique. The point of this post was to inform the hundreds of Gym Ghost kit users that this is an option for them because this hardware is available in the much smaller size.


----------



## gym_ghost

Here is a Bucky 3-Axis nearly completed. I still have to add the eye kit and attach it to this skeleton frame. HalloweenBob did the programming. This Bucky was built from the kit I offer on my website (not selling or pushing product). Just have had many request to post video. I will have a Lindberg posted shortly. Thanks Bob for posting this.






Gym_Ghost
Graveyardmadness


----------



## sledge

Fantastic Job JOEL!!!!!


----------



## lerandell

cool! that is awesome! I am sooo ready to get my parts are get to programming.


----------



## jamma

OK, just starting to put together the GYM Ghost kits I ordered a while ago. I ordered 2-56 linkages and threaded rod from Servo City, but now see that the hole in these linkages is a #2, meaning the 4-40 screw that goes into the top of the kit's big threaded rod doesn't fit. 

So, I guess I need 4-40 threaded rod and #4 ball linkages. However, I don't see where the 4-40 ball & socket linkages are sold. Anyone got a supplier? I've only ever seen these in 2-56. Did GYM Ghost change the screw to 2-56, or is there a 2-56 linkage with a #4 hole that I don't know about. Any help appreciated!


----------



## HalloweenBob

I think if you take the threaded rod that has the 4-40 tapped hole in the end of it, and unscrew it from the main rod, you will find that you can turn it around and screw it in the other way and you will find the 2-56 threaded hole.

He made them reversable because there were people who wanted to use the larger linkage size.

If you just want the 4-40 linkages, servocity.com sells them.

4-40x3/16" Standard

If it were me, I would turn around the rod and go with the 2-56 size.


----------



## Abunai

jamma said:


> OK, just starting to put together the GYM Ghost kits I ordered a while ago. I ordered 2-56 linkages and threaded rod from Servo City, but now see that the hole in these linkages is a #2, meaning the 4-40 screw that goes into the top of the kit's big threaded rod doesn't fit.
> 
> So, I guess I need 4-40 threaded rod and #4 ball linkages. However, I don't see where the 4-40 ball & socket linkages are sold. Anyone got a supplier? I've only ever seen these in 2-56. Did GYM Ghost change the screw to 2-56, or is there a 2-56 linkage with a #4 hole that I don't know about. Any help appreciated!


Hobby Town (national chain) sells all of this stuff, but it is kind of pricey. 

ServoCity.com is your best bet. 

You also might be able to talk Cpt. Jack Sparrow into a group buy, but it's getting pretty close to "H-Day."


----------



## jamma

Thanks for the quick response, Halloween Bob. It appears my threaded rod does not have the "reversible" feature you mention. It seems like it's one unit. Perhaps my kits are from an earlier lot. Any other suggestions?


----------



## HalloweenBob

I'm sure if you contact Joel at Graveyard madness, he will send you out a replacement part.

If you don't want to do that, then use the servo city link and get the 4-40 linkages.


----------



## jamma

Thanks. I'll ping Joel. BTW, the thing I'm looking for is the ball & socket linkages in 4-40 size. I haven't found them at ServoCity, only the 2-56 size:
2-56 Ball & Socket Linkage


----------



## HalloweenBob

4-40x3/16" Standard


----------



## indeva

Wow finaly caught up on this tread, 125 pages wwwheeeeww. Took me a few sittings but Im so excited to start this build. 

Ive order the skulls, the ssc-32 board and one basic linberg kit from Joel (need to order the other three) and just waiting for everything to arrive so I can start. 

You guys have posted some really great stuff! Seems like a bunch of really good people here, I hope I can be as helpful as you guys have been once I go thru the process. 

I hope everything goes smooth with my build but adding the computer into the mix kinda scares me. After reading all your info Im sure I can figure it out but it would be nice to get a quick once over the whole VSA programming by someone in person. If anyone in the Phoenix, AZ area is interested (PM Me) in giving a little how to demo I could pay a little for your time.


----------



## Abunai

I'm surprised that this thread has not moved in over two weeks. 

Additionally, I'm surprised that I haven't seen dozens of posts of 3-axis skulls built from GymGhost's kits or from scratch. 

I also have not seen posts from CptJackSparrow or RBC in an eternity.

I thought, for sure, that this would be the year of the 3-axis skull. What is going on?


----------



## HalloweenBob

I know there have been many dozens of kits purchased and my guess is that those people (as I am also) are just pretty busy putting it all together and getting ready for Halloween.

Just haven't had a lot of time.

But just to check....If you have bought or built a 3 axis skull this year, please chime in here with a quick post so we can get an idea of how many there are in this "Year of the Skull".

By the way, is that part of the Chinese calander?


----------



## guitarist155

i'm building one right now, working on 2-axis eyes currently


----------



## gym_ghost

I am building 16 for this years haunt. I have also built 31 for customers. I sold over 150 kits and over $4,500 in componets to build skulls. I am still filling the last of the orders. August 25 through Sept 12, I had over 25 BIG ORDERS come in and it really screwed me up on shipping... major delays. The good news is - all orders will be going out today and Monday!!! What a year!!!


Graveyardmadness


----------



## gmacted

I've built two. The first will be mounted on a corpsed bucky and the second will be a just a head with no body. I have a routine for the first one and am working on the second now. Got to get moving!


----------



## dadgonemad

One for me this year, but I have enough parts for three more for next year (just need to buy servos). I plan on posting my revised routine once the prop is complete. It's going to be a few weeks, though...


----------



## MsMeeple

Abunai said:


> I'm surprised that this thread has not moved in over two weeks.
> 
> Additionally, I'm surprised that I haven't seen dozens of posts of 3-axis skulls built from GymGhost's kits or from scratch.
> 
> I also have not seen posts from CptJackSparrow or RBC in an eternity.
> 
> I thought, for sure, that this would be the year of the 3-axis skull. What is going on?


I think that some people...Lynn for instance, posted in a seperate thread.
This thread has become very difficult to wade through.
I tried it and only got to page 50 something. 
So I posted a new thread asking for help/suggestions and got no response.
I guess I would have been better off posting it here but since it was inactive for so long...

MsM


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Aye, goes double fer me, says I... me days off 'ave bin few an' far 'tween, trips 'ave bin more days, with less days off 'tween ... last week th' Pear I did drag out ta assemble again, an' Monday did see th' buildin' of two more swabs fer th' pirate jail. Like others 'ave said, "tis next year" tha' th' tykes be seein' a greater show.. this year be jus' a taste o' wot ta expect... 'opin' everyone 'as bin ta me Pirate VSA, Music an' Font page, an' availed themselves o' th' routines, music an' fonts (ta make up yer maps an' party invitations o'course!). An some o' th' lack o' me nigh bin' 'ere goes ta Madam T, fer sendin me th' link to PiratesOnline.com, Disney's PoTC online game.. 'tis a terrific game an' ideas come from it fer me haunt too. Playin' since Fathers Day I 'ave..

I'm off... ta our Nation's capital fer the weekend.. check back in I will as I can.. 'ave a bloody good weekend e'eryone...

Capt Jack


----------



## dionicia

I think Blinky (RBC) was banned. 

I have been in full blown build mode. Just discovered how to use the event part of VSA. Also just discovered my MAC mouse will work on my PC laptop. I'm gonna try and use that for the movements as I agree with others that the joystick movement is jerky.

I've build skulls from both Joel's kit as well as Blinky's kit. Seem to both work really good except I like Joel's kit more as the all of the manufactured parts are clean cut. 

Had to have two of the rotation arms ordered as the one's from Blinky's kit were a bit big and a bit bendable. Haven't received them yet but I am hoping they arrive soon. Otherwise I may have to try my hand at making them (yikes).


----------



## Galen DreVahn

One here thanks to Gym Ghost, but working on 6 different props at once, so no real progress yet.


----------



## indeva

Im glad to see people posting here again after the little break. 

I know Im going to have a bunch of questions in the comming days as I get knee deep in this, I hope you all don't mind me asking alot of questions. I know theres alot of good info in this thread but at 126 pages it can be hard to find (even with search).

Im building three lindbergs with GYM kits that just arrived and I built my first one yesterday. 

Can you guys take alook and see if it looks like I have my linkages set up correct? and if it is not maybe a pic of what it should. I really didnt find a good source of build pic with gym kits (more pics of the DIY builds) so anything would be a help. Thanks alot!!!

<a href="http://s539.photobucket.com/albums/ff355/indeva/?action=view&current=CIMG8878.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i539.photobucket.com/albums/ff355/indeva/CIMG8878.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s539.photobucket.com/albums/ff355/indeva/?action=view&current=CIMG8879.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i539.photobucket.com/albums/ff355/indeva/CIMG8879.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s539.photobucket.com/albums/ff355/indeva/?action=view&current=CIMG8880.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i539.photobucket.com/albums/ff355/indeva/CIMG8880.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


----------



## indeva




----------



## Skeleton Jay

Got mine working thanks to the basic kits and some tweaking (plus input from the Captain). No vid yet but I did find a great sound clip to start off with.

The Haunted Mansion - Secrets

check out the "Unedited Ghost Host Library Spell". All you have to do is import the sound clip to vsa. Then set the settings as follows:

Type to SSC32 Servo
+value to 1700
-value to 1250
default to 1250

The jaw moves extremely well to this clip with these settings.


----------



## azdude

I posted some pics and the video of my 3-axis on the "how to" forum but it looks like not that many people go to that forum. You can see the other pics on that post here and here is the short video from that post again. The skull is going to raise up out of a crypt with a lid...if I can get it done - yikes!


----------



## dionicia

That's pretty good. What type of skull is that?


----------



## azdude

its just the standard Bucky skull


----------



## gmacted

Skeleton Jay said:


> Got mine working thanks to the basic kits and some tweaking (plus input from the Captain). No vid yet but I did find a great sound clip to start off with.
> 
> The Haunted Mansion - Secrets
> 
> check out the "Unedited Ghost Host Library Spell". All you have to do is import the sound clip to vsa. Then set the settings as follows:
> 
> Type to SSC32 Servo
> +value to 1700
> -value to 1250
> default to 1250
> 
> The jaw moves extremely well to this clip with these settings.


Skeleton Jay,

I have a slightly different version of this clip that you may be interested in (my version seems to sound clearer). If so, PM me with your e-mail and I'll send it to you.


----------



## Skeleton Jay

Appreciated but I've moved on to something more challenging! I'm working on Thriller by Michael Jackson. Almost a minute in and it looks good so far.


----------



## indeva

Wow, Thriller ! That sounds like alot of work.

Im just getting started on the VSA programing and I was just wondering is everyone just using the joystick method and programing one axis at a time? Is anyone using Parlay (i can't get it to import to VSA).

Im having a hard time with the wave analysis. It never seems to be anywhere close to the MP3 im using. the MP3 is just a voice with no background music and its still way off. Is that normal? Thanks!


----------



## HalloweenBob

Parlay will import into VSA. 

I will need some details on what settings you are using with Parlay. Are you creating the file as a MiniSSc or as an SSC32?

You have to set all the channels you are using in VSA to the same type of device before you import the data. Then it should work.

Also, could you post the wav file? I'll check it out using waveform analysis. Maybe your Min, Max and default settings need to be adjusted.


----------



## dionicia

Any pics of the new crew HB?


----------



## Sadler Vampire

Abunai said:


> I'm surprised that this thread has not moved in over two weeks.
> 
> Additionally, I'm surprised that I haven't seen dozens of posts of 3-axis skulls built from GymGhost's kits or from scratch.
> 
> I also have not seen posts from CptJackSparrow or RBC in an eternity.
> 
> I thought, for sure, that this would be the year of the 3-axis skull. What is going on?



I know that I've had setbacks and cannot see completing mine by this halloween. But I am looking twards 2009.

Once I get the last two blem kits from GymGhost... I'lll be hitting it hard.


----------



## Sadler Vampire

Speaking of... I have the opportunity to purchase my Daughters old Dell Laptop. 

( She's a poor college student... so I Buy her a new laptop, but have to buy her old one from her if I want it.... how does THAT work? )

Anyway, I believe it has windows 2000 on it and not XP, also I dont know about the processor, or memory yet, but It will be cheap and dedicated to just the 3 axis shulls... what do I need in Minimum requirements on a laptop to pull this off?

Bart


----------



## Sadler Vampire

azdude said:


> I posted some pics and the video of my 3-axis on the "how to" forum but it looks like not that many people go to that forum. You can see the other pics on that post here and here is the short video from that post again. The skull is going to raise up out of a crypt with a lid...if I can get it done - yikes!


Dang !!! How did you do the eyes ? 


I want to know


----------



## indeva

Hey Bob, Thanks for your response. Im not really sure what im doing here so please be patient if Im asking dumb questions.

Okay, to answer your questions I have the Mini SSc2 button selected in "Parlay"(even tho I have the lynxmotion ssc-32 board).

If I select the SSC-32 button I dont get any movements from my mouse or joystick (skull doesn't move). Not sure how to get it to move with the ssc-32 selected, maybe this is my problem.

Second you asked "You have to set all the channels you are using in VSA to the same type of device before you import the data" Im not sure what you are asking me? I have in the VSA program my channels set too 0 as Rotate, 1 as Nod, 2 as Tilt and 3 as Jaw. I had them set the way CaptnJack had listed on his web page but in Parlay I couldnt figure out how to change an axis to a different channel. So with CaptnJacks way of assign channels the microphone channel was my nod and is was all backwards and couldnt get any smooth movements, so I swaped the servos in the board to match the axis I though would work better in parlay. Im not but a few steps into this so if I need to change any of this let me know.

Lastly the audio file im using is an MP3 file, not a wave file. Not sure if that makes a difference. I haven't converted the mp3 to a wave to input into parlay cause i couldnt really get parlay to work for me. Second I dont know how to send you the MP3 file other than emailing it to you?


----------



## dionicia

Ok. This is from playing with VSA tonight so it's still nice and fresh in my confused little mind. 

First, bring up VSA. Make sure to have your controller plugged in and powered up before you launch VSA. Then go to Settings and check "Port" which should be set to none by default. Change this to the COM that is showing (mine was Com4). Also change the "Type" to SSC32 Servo. Then make sure before getting out of the Settings, go to the Port Setting Tab up at the top and change it to 115200 (this is for the linxmotion folks). On a side note, if you double click on name, you change it to whatever you want. 

Next, if you already have something in mind that you would like your skull to say, go to Tool then load audio file or hit F2. 

Once you have the WAV file up, go back up to tools and do the wave motion analysis. You will need to know what the minimum and maximum positions each servo can handle. This can be done in the Settings by double clicking on one of the value fields. You can then test the servo with the circle on the left and then enter the information about the minimum and maximum as well as where you want the servo to start (default) on the right. This information will be entered on the box that pops up when you click on the wave motion analysis. You will be selecting the servo that runs the jaw and entering the maximum and minimum your servo will operate between. 

Once you have done all of this, hit the little black arrow up on the top right and watch what the skull does.

If I have forgotten anything, please let me know. And as always, Legal Disclaimer: I am just a novice. Anything information I have provided is not intended to be the official instructions for VSA. I do not accept any responsibility for any damage as a result of the information provided (but I hope it helped to point anyone that was clueless like myself in the right direction).


----------



## GottaGetMyBooOn

HOLY diz-zam


----------



## dionicia

Is that good?


----------



## GottaGetMyBooOn

LMAO... yeah


----------



## dionicia

I hope it helps. I know I could have used the information a few months back.


----------



## indeva

Okay Thanks!!! I havent re tried the wave thing yet but after checking my settings looks like i didnt have the "Type" set to the SSC-32. it was set on the defualt "minissc" so I had already set my max and min valuse but it was with the mini selected so now it has gone from like 0-254 to now showing max and min of 500-2500. I had all the other settings you said set but I total missed changing that field. Thank you dionicia!!!

from what I described earlier do you think this was my problem?


----------



## dionicia

Could have been. Is your skull working now?


----------



## indeva

Okay so i went thru and did my min and max again for all channels now in the rage of 500-2500. My jaw as an example is set at a min of 1217 and max of 1780. I put the default at 1780. Sound about right?

I then go the the wavemotion and select the "Jaw" channel analyze "All" max is "1780" min is "1217" max error is "2%" scale is "100%" and event type is "Linear Bar"

I hit okay and it does its thing but when I play it back it barley moves the jaw??


----------



## dionicia

One other thing. 

I know HB may have mentioned this before (wwwwaaaaaayyyyyy earlier in this book) but sometimes the wav file you load may not analyze very well so it looks like your skull is mumbling. HB suggested recording your own voice and loading that and analyze it before you load your wave file. This way the jaws moves a lot better. 

I'm gonna have to do that with Vincent when he recites the Raven.


----------



## indeva

Well that could be my problem, Im using a simple track I found under the "Music" section on this form of a simple voice laying down some ground rules for the haunt their about to enter, so no mucis or background music of any kind. I figured it would be an easy MP3 to start with for a beginner like my self. Maybe not?

Did all my setting sound about right to you?


----------



## HalloweenBob

No pics yet. The heads are all functional, but I have been working on Routines all this time, and not on the rest of the props (outfits, hair, etc.) I hope to get to a lot of that this week.


----------



## dionicia

Yes. 

You might want to download a wav recording program and try using your own voice for the rules. Then you can use that for the wave analysis and then have your skull lip sync the other sound file. 



indeva said:


> Well that could be my problem, Im using a simple track I found under the "Music" section on this form of a simple voice laying down some ground rules for the haunt their about to enter, so no mucis or background music of any kind. I figured it would be an easy MP3 to start with for a beginner like my self. Maybe not?
> 
> Did all my setting sound about right to you?


----------



## Regor

dionicia said:


> I have to download a pirate translator.


I'm not sure if it works in reverse but here ya go. Home | Pirate Monkeyness


----------



## HalloweenBob

To answer some questions from before:



> Hey Bob, Thanks for your response. Im not really sure what im doing here so please be patient if Im asking dumb questions.
> 
> Okay, to answer your questions I have the Mini SSc2 button selected in "Parlay"(even tho I have the lynxmotion ssc-32 board).
> 
> If I select the SSC-32 button I dont get any movements from my mouse or joystick (skull doesn't move). Not sure how to get it to move with the ssc-32 selected, maybe this is my problem.
> 
> Second you asked "You have to set all the channels you are using in VSA to the same type of device before you import the data" Im not sure what you are asking me? I have in the VSA program my channels set too 0 as Rotate, 1 as Nod, 2 as Tilt and 3 as Jaw. I had them set the way CaptnJack had listed on his web page but in Parlay I couldnt figure out how to change an axis to a different channel. So with CaptnJacks way of assign channels the microphone channel was my nod and is was all backwards and couldnt get any smooth movements, so I swaped the servos in the board to match the axis I though would work better in parlay. Im not but a few steps into this so if I need to change any of this let me know.
> 
> Lastly the audio file im using is an MP3 file, not a wave file. Not sure if that makes a difference. I haven't converted the mp3 to a wave to input into parlay cause i couldnt really get parlay to work for me. Second I dont know how to send you the MP3 file other than emailing it to you?


It seems that dionica straghtened you out on your settings in VSA. That was what I meant by having each channel set to the same type of device that you used in Parlay.

You can indeed email me the mp3. That should be fine, my email is in my profile.

I will explain why I use wav files instead of mp3s. It is a matter of synchronization.

If you have an mp3, it is a compressed format. Some of the code in that file is not audio information. It is code that tells the mp3 player when it starts, how long the file is, what level of compression is used, what bit rate it is at, etc.

That translates into a small blank spot that lasts a fraction of a second at the begining and end of the file.

If you open an mp3 in editing software, and resave it, the resulting file will be just a tiny bit longer than the original. The audio contant hasn't changed, but the small gap at the beginning and end have gotten larger.

So, if you have to create your own file with your own voice in order to synch up the servo to only the spoken section of a file and ignore sound effects and music as well as other voices, each time you edit and save the file, it gets a little more out of sync.

Wav file don't do this. Since they are not compressed, the information is all audio information and no matter how many copies you make or changes you make in a file, it will remain exactly the same size.

Hopefully, I have explained that well enough.

Back to the first part of your question. Select SSC-32 as the device type in Parlay before you start any recording.

Then, change the "Type" on all your used channels in VSA to SSC-32 servo before you import the data.

Then it should work fine.


----------



## MsMeeple

*It moved BUT....*

We tested our 3 axis skull last night. It moved to the commands and it was great knowing that we are on the right path. BUT its obvious that the rod end that Pieter made is not good enough. We've looked and looked but can't find a rod end similiar to the one that HalloweenBob uses. That's why Pieter had to try to make an alternative. Its also not an option to buy one from the graveyard madness site as their store is closed for the season.

Anyone else have to make their own rod end and have any suggestions on what we can use to make it?

Thanks,
MsM


----------



## dionicia

Lowes has rod ends the smallest being 4-40. Also, McMasterCarr has rod ends as well and they have fast shipping.


----------



## HalloweenBob

Do you mean "Rod End" or the center support rod.

Can you post a picture?

I don't see how someone would "make" a rod end.


----------



## dionicia

I think she means the little servo bracket rotation arm.


----------



## Dr Morbius

HalloweenBob said:


> Do you mean "Rod End" or the center support rod.
> 
> Can you post a picture?
> 
> I don't see how someone would "make" a rod end.


TwistedDemetia made his own..I do beleive his is the first gimble 3 axis skull design. His "rod end" was made from PVC and a toy eyeball.
TwistedDementia's Skull Project - HauntForum.com


----------



## dionicia

I think this is what MSMeeple was talking about. I could see this working really well. Might need to tap the center hole to fit the main rod. 

http://www.twisteddementia.com/Prop_Pics/skull_inside_linkage_plate.jpg


----------



## Dr Morbius

yea, that picture is in the thread I linked to.


----------



## indeva

Hey Doc can I ask you about a voice over file you had Dusza Beben make for you last year?


----------



## MsMeeple

dionicia said:


> Lowes has rod ends the smallest being 4-40. Also, McMasterCarr has rod ends as well and they have fast shipping.


I checked both companies and they don't ship internationally.
But thanks anyway.


----------



## MsMeeple

HalloweenBob said:


> Do you mean "Rod End" or the center support rod.
> 
> Can you post a picture?
> 
> I don't see how someone would "make" a rod end.


Thanks for responding.

I'm talking about the rod end like the one shown on the graveyard madness part page:


----------



## MsMeeple

Dr Morbius said:


> yea, that picture is in the thread I linked to.


Thanks dionicia and Dr. I'll check out the website. Geesh, I hope this doesnt mean I have to start looking around for a tiny eyeball lol

MsM


----------



## Dr Morbius

indeva said:


> Hey Doc can I ask you about a voice over file you had Dusza Beben make for you last year?


Yes you can..which one?


----------



## indeva

Hey Doc, I am just getting use to the VSA program and for my first routine I wanted to try something simple with no background music. I was looking around in the "Music" section of this forum and came across "meltdown211"free download page and he had a voice over for a graveyard entrance skull. I later found the thread where you had Dusza make "Doc on the half shell" for you.

So I wanted to ask if when you used (if you used) VSA's wave analysis to do the jaw movements, was it pretty clean and accurate? Or did you have to clean it up alot manually?

This is the first routine im trying to make and when I used the analysis it was in the ballpark but not very fluid or close to what was being said. So Im having to go over it and smooth alot out. Just wondering if thats normal or do I need to tweak some settings somewhere. If thats normal than thats cool, but I didn't want to have to go thru the whole thing line by line if there was an eaiser way. I cant imagine how it is to do multi voice's when there is music and background noise.

Thanks!


----------



## Dr Morbius

indeva said:


> Hey Doc, I am just getting use to the VSA program and for my first routine I wanted to try something simple with no background music. I was looking around in the "Music" section of this forum and came across "meltdown211"free download page and he had a voice over for a graveyard entrance skull. I later found the thread where you had Dusza make "Doc on the half shell" for you.
> 
> So I wanted to ask if when you used (if you used) VSA's wave analysis to do the jaw movements, was it pretty clean and accurate? Or did you have to clean it up alot manually?
> 
> This is the first routine im trying to make and when I used the analysis it was in the ballpark but not very fluid or close to what was being said. So Im having to go over it and smooth alot out. Just wondering if thats normal or do I need to tweak some settings somewhere. If thats normal than thats cool, but I didn't want to have to go thru the whole thing line by line if there was an eaiser way. I cant imagine how it is to do multi voice's when there is music and background noise.
> 
> Thanks!


There are a couple ways to do this, the way I did it was just move the mouse to record the jaw servo only while the routine played. Just hit the record button in VSA. Another way is upload the soundtrack with voice only, no music and do your waveform analysis. After that is done, upload the track with the music. It should stay in sync. The hard way is to do like you said, and program each movement seperately.


----------



## mkozik

Hey ya'll, what type MP3 player are you planning to use with your prop? I need something that I can trip with a relay that will begin play and then reset for the next time the relay trips. Is Parallax the only one that will do this?


----------



## MsMeeple

Well I thought I'd update you all on my dutch rod end bearing adventure.
After googling rod end, I found some large companies that distribute internationally.
After searching the webpages of their dutch distributors, I came up with the correct dutch name for what we need. 
With diagram in hand, we went to places listed in Groningen, Holland that carried their products.
All three companies were located outside town in an industrial area.
First one didn't have them
Second one had them, but not in the smaller sizes (even though the smaller size was listed on their website)
The third one (why is it always the last one) finally had them and in the correct size. When the guy told us how much they cost we almost fell off the stools! 50 euros!! or 72 dollars!

But by using the correct name for the rod end, we were also able to find a store in amsterdam that has the smaller ones for 10 euros plus shipping. So this little thing is gonna cost us around 21 dollars with shipping included.

If this skull ends up working and we decided to make more WILL DEFINITELY have to find a friend in the US who will pick some up from Lowes and ship them to me.

Its times like this that I really miss the convenience that you have in the US.

MsM


----------



## geehh

MsMeeple said:


> If this skull ends up working and we decided to make more WILL DEFINITELY have to find a friend in the US who will pick some up from Lowes and ship them to me.
> 
> Its times like this that I really miss the convenience that you have in the US.
> 
> MsM


I'm going to make you feel even worse....I ordered some rod ends and other toys online from McMaster-Carr about noon today. They just showed up at my front door! I guess I won't be watching TV this evening!


----------



## MsMeeple

geehh said:


> I'm going to make you feel even worse....I ordered some rod ends and other toys online from McMaster-Carr about noon today. They just showed up at my front door! I guess I won't be watching TV this evening!


Hmmm the convenience of being able to order the rod end online AND have it delivered the same day.....nah, that didn't make me feel even worse. If you had also mentioned how cheap it was or that you got free shipping (not done in the netherlands), that would have made me feel even worse. lol

MsM


----------



## Toetag

I know what you mean about shipping i need a part the size of a quarter that cost 40 cents and i have to pay 9 dollars shipping. I swear they pack lead in the boxes and packages when your not looking. Shipped a box the other day and it cost me 20 bucks couldnt have weighed 5 pounds. This is getting ridiculous. I could go on a rant about it but im not BUT THIS IS INSANE!


----------



## indeva

I wanted to say thanks to Halloween Bob for all his help he gave me thru email. Im working on my first full routine and Ill post a video asoon as I get the last skull done.

Any sugestions for a good classic rock, rock, oldie, halloweenish maybe, fun upbeat song to do a routine that everyone who vists will know?


----------



## mkozik

Not that it probably has not been over done, but the Monster Mash is always a good one


----------



## MsMeeple

Yes! My tiny little rod end bearing arrived today!
Can't believe they have the nerve to charge 6 euros shipping for something that's a couple of inches long (if that) and weighs practically nothing.
Anyway, will be testing again tomorrow.
Keep your fingers crossed for us.

MsM


----------



## Conman

???

If only i had the brain capacity to do something like this


----------



## indeva

Well i got the jaw movements almost done on my first ever routinue. I still have a little tweaking to do but I figured Id share a little video of where I'm at. 

If anyone has suggestions on the jaw moments Id love to hear them (timing, starts word too fast, too slow etc..).

Thanks!


----------



## azdude

That is really cool! Keep it up!


----------



## MsMeeple

I think the jaw movements are great! We were mesmerized by them.

MsM


----------



## Abunai

indeva said:


> Well i got the jaw movements almost done on my first ever routinue. I still have a little tweaking to do but I figured Id share a little video of where I'm at.
> 
> If anyone has suggestions on the jaw moments Id love to hear them (timing, starts word too fast, too slow etc..).
> 
> Thanks!


Outstanding work!
I think the jaw movements look fine. 
You have the hard part out of the way now. 
You can motion capture all of the axis movements in real time with a joystick or a mouse. Then, cut and paste from one skull to the other.


----------



## bradg896

Very nice work, Indeva! I like it as is! Never really heard that version of "Halloween" before, but it works very well for this type of set-up.


----------



## bloagsat

You are a god!!! (an evil god, but a God)


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Indeva, 

it 'be proper ta my eyes.. it is both proper an' suitable, it is also acceptable an' adequate, it is in obvious fact, a terrific job... 

It will not have to be redone, none of it.
And let this serve as a lesson to th' lot of you, 

simple works wonders.. 

Yers does give me ideas.. as th' time is drawing closer, a number of my skulls will 'ave ta forgo th' 3-axis mountin' fer jus' flappin' jaw movement, naught totally unlike wots naught here.. yer skulls, mounted on pedestals (or spines) an' flappin' thar jaws ta th sounds o' pirate-speak.. Outstandin' job, an' I really mean it this time 

Also Inde... arrrre ye close ta Dioncia? I be makin' port (tho I prefer Rum) in th' East Valley.. VavVista & -60

Capt. Jack (in DC today/tomorrow)


----------



## indeva

Hey Captn, Thanks for the kinda words. I dont think I would have ever got this thing off the ground with out Halloweenbob's help. He suggested this song to me. It's Panic At The Disco's version. I like it, something a little different. 

Ya, I saw you too were here in town, just wanst sure where. I "make port" up by deer valley airport, 7th ave and loop 101.


----------



## indeva

okay i cant stop, this is too much fun. heres a quick trial


----------



## HalloweenBob

Addictive, Isn't it?


----------



## Galen DreVahn

Pardon me asking this, it should be easy deduction. I can actually grasp the construction of the axis assembly, even last night I set up the Lynx board into a single gang box for a plug in cat5 cord. Because I'm working on numerous props at once, including one never seen before in a home haunt, I can't get my head around this simple thing. Call it stress..

Anyways, how do most of you attach your jaw to the skull on a bucky? I'm not talking about the jaw to the servo for talking, I mean the hinge point to the skull to swivel on. I bought some 6/32" wood screws, but not sure if they would work the best. This is my first use of a bucky skull also, I might add.

Thanks


----------



## MsMeeple

VSA programming help

We spent the weekend putting the skull together. The very expensive rod end is in there, along with the servos, etc. He's balanced well. We've found the min and max points and the starting points. Now we need to program the routine.
I'm pretty computer literate but I'm just not getting this vsa program at all.
I've sifted thru this thread again looking for help/tips. The only things I could find were something about using your mouse to record or a joystick. Not even sure how the 'record' works.
We tried the mouse clicking thing without success. 
We tried the wave analysis.
Not sure how to do a seperate track so it just picks up the voice.
Read the help files.
I'm off this week and would like to work on a routine but need some basic instructions.
Can someone give me some basic instructions for programming the routine?
Something similiar to vsa programming for dummies? lol

MsM


----------



## dionicia

On page 129 #1287, I posted some information on VSA. To start recording movements left click in the section of the device you want to have the movement on. While holding the clicker down, drag to the length of the movement you need (if you used wave analysis for your jaw servo you pretty much can use that to help with defining the movement of the other servos). Then there is a red stop sign on the right side. This will allow you to record your event. It will bring up a record set up to verify what you want to work on. Click ok and a little box will show the movement of the servo. If your like me, a mouse worked better. But if your a pro at the joystick, have a blast. Once you have completed the movement you want, hit the square on the top right side and you are done.

Does this help?


----------



## indeva

Im really new to this whole thing also, so take that in mind when following any of this. The way I ended up doing my jaw movements after try to get the wave analysis to work and not having much luck was to use the joystick.

First I find (or make) a print out of the words in the routine. After listening to the track a million times or so I decide what jaws i want to say what. I then type all the words down in a word doc and make the words of the main voice one color and the second voice another color and so on. So the end result looks something like this









After I am real familiar with the song and the words I start with the main voice. I then load the song Wav. file which is just the full version of what ever song with all the voices all the music and background noise, no fancy audio editing here.

Just as people have described I click on the red dot (Record) on the far right hand side of the screen. This brings up the record setup window. 

Select the "Record Track" (I renamed mine to nod, jaw, tilt etc.), but the track number 0,1,2 and 3 should be your first skull. Select the track number that is your jaw you want to start with.

"Event Type" I leave at the default "Linear Bar"

"Smoothing" I have been increasing to 10 (personal choice)

"Overwrite Existing Events" box I leave checked as I do the entire song for one voice at a time (not sections or verse, the whole song) and if I mess up I start all over with that voice. It may take a few time to get it right but if you do mess up you just get practice on doing the first part again.

"Playback mode" i leave the button default of "Play All"









Once you it okay you will get an error message (or at least I do) because I have not defined an event









So what I do, and Im not saying this is right but it works for me. I simple click and drag my mouse pointer over a device # that i dont use and just make a small little box on that track (an event).









after I make that "event on a track im not using I hit the red dot again on the right and make sure all my settings are still what I want them to be and then hit ok.

After you hit ok the song will begin playing and a box on the top left will pop up showing you that you are recording movements.


----------



## indeva

I have my joystick hooked up and I use that to record my movements. When you push the joystick all the way to the right *"while holding the trigger"* the jaw will be at the default position you set or fully closed (my middle skull)









While still holding the trigger down the whole time if you move the joystick to the left the jaw will extend to what ever you set your maximum to or fully opened jaw. (my middle skull)









Then with some practice move the joystick left and right to make each jaw movement. It takes some time getting use to but after a while you can get good at it. Practice practice.

Again i am really new at this so there may be a better to easier way of doing this and if there is please let me know. Im not pretending to know what Im doing. Thanks!


----------



## jimmyzdc

Hey guys....I'm having so real big problems. I'm hoping some of you guys could help out. I setup my skull a while back and it worked fine. This was a couple months ago. Today I go to start finalizing all my movements and now my skull is going crazy. When I start playing my routine all my servos start moving around but there are no movements programed. Anyone got any idea whats going on? I'm wondering if there is something wrong with my board. Even if I stop my routine the servos still keep going.


----------



## dionicia

What type of wires are you using?


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Galen, use small plastic zip-tie wraps (for wire bundles), drill small holes at each jaw point.. keep them loose..

ScaryTerry.com has a great page for mounting a single jaw-only servo in a bucky skull:
http://www.scary-terry.com/buckyservo/buckyservo2.htm

Jimmy, load a new .wav file(you can use any of the ones on my VSA page, see my links) and do another waveform analysis and seee if that resets, or re-comands the servos.

Capt Jack


----------



## MsMeeple

Indeva and dionicia thanks a ton for the instructions.
We did get as far as clicking and dragging event boxes into the field. Needed to be able to do that in order to check the movements and set the min, max and begin points.
When we tried the mouse clicking, we did get the record window but ended uip having to click and drag the bar in the servo picture which wasn't very easy.
Later we played around with the joystick with some success.
I'll try again today with that tip about doing an event in another track.
We do have the device #'s labeled.
Were you really able to get such exact jaw movemetns with only the joystick?? Wow!
One other question. If I mess up and I want to delete the whole track for ONE device, is there an easy way to do that?

Thanks again,
MsM


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

'ello luv, aye, ya can delete just one channel(track) an' leave th' others.. click on th' position ya want to delete ALL after, then RIGHT-click an' choose "Select all to right (track #) ...th' remainder of th' track highlights, then right click on first highlighted block, select Cut or Delete..


----------



## Galen DreVahn

Tip of my hat to ya Capt Jack, one less thing to wrap my head around.


----------



## gmacted

*GSM Haunt Prodcutions 2008 "sneak peek" video*

Here is a "sneak peek" video of my 3-axis skull routine for 2008. Both skulls were made with the Graveyardmadness kits. Thanks again Gym Ghost! I still have some work to do, but the hard part is over. What do you think?

PS - Pardon the Southern accent.

YouTube - GSM Haunt Productions 2008 Sneak Peek


----------



## Abunai

gmacted said:


> Here is a "sneak peek" video of my 3-axis skull routine for 2008. Both skulls were made with the Graveyardmadness kits. Thanks again Gym Ghost! I still have some work to do, but the hard part is over. What do you think?
> 
> PS - Pardon the Southern accent.


Man, your head movements are outstanding! Excellent job!


----------



## MsMeeple

I agree! Great movements and look fantastic!
And loved the southern accent. Miss all the different american accents sometimes.

MsM


----------



## HD-Lilly

that turned out great ..I like it that you have 2 different voices on those.
movemnet is really good.


----------



## Toetag

Are you using the digital servos?




gmacted said:


> Here is a "sneak peek" video of my 3-axis skull routine for 2008. Both skulls were made with the Graveyardmadness kits. Thanks again Gym Ghost! I still have some work to do, but the hard part is over. What do you think?
> 
> PS - Pardon the Southern accent.
> 
> YouTube - GSM Haunt Productions 2008 Sneak Peek


----------



## gmacted

MsMeeple said:


> I agree! Great movements and look fantastic!
> And loved the southern accent. Miss all the different american accents sometimes.
> 
> MsM


I'm not from the South nor have I ever lived there. I just imitated the Southern accent because I didn't want the neighborhood kids knowing it was my voice. I'm really not sure if it was a good imitation or not, but I didn't want to offend anyone if it wasn't.


----------



## gmacted

Toetag said:


> Are you using the digital servos?


I'm not using digital servos. What would make you think that I am?

I'm using Hitec HS-645MG servos for all four servos.


----------



## Toetag

How did you get the movement so smooth? Mine is kinda choppy


----------



## gmacted

Toetag said:


> How did you get the movement so smooth? Mine is kinda choppy



You're the second person that told me that today.

I don't think I'm doing anything special.

I would guess that you're having a transfer rate or a power problem.

What is your frame rate in VSA? 

What is your baud rate?

What controller are you using?

What servos are you using?

What are you using for a power supply? How much current can it supply?


----------



## Toetag

Im sure everything else is correct but you mentioned frame rate i didnt mess with that whats that supposed to be set at?


----------



## gmacted

Toetag said:


> Im sure everything else is correct but you mentioned frame rate i didnt mess with that whats that supposed to be set at?


I have the frame rate set to 30 FPS.

Don't be too sure with everything else. If the baud rate is too slow you will still communicate, but just not fast enough.


----------



## Toetag

Thats what i have how about the baud rate?


----------



## Toetag

Ok ok i see now yeap its my baud rate. Thanks


----------



## gmacted

Toetag said:


> Thats what i have how about the baud rate?


I'm using a Prop-SX controller (with a 50 MHz oscillator) and have my baud rate set to 38400.


----------



## Torvus

I'm having a strange issue with my setup. Using prop-sx with vsa and a 645mg servo. While running the program my servos stop responding about 2-3 seconds into the run. I then have to reset the controller to bring them back up. Running selenoids alone doesn't cause the problem. 

I'm not running an external power supply, and the problem happens when using any servo. I don't have an oscillator installed, but not sure that would freeze up everything. 

baud rates are correct at 38400


Any thoughts?


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Thats interestin', me baud rates be set ta 115K.. jus' as long as th' computer and board's rates be th' same..

Torvus, thar be anythin' else runnin' in th' background while yer VSA be runnin'? Myself, I would try ta remove everythin' tha' runs when ya starts Windows (an' ya didnt mention if it be XP or Vista) by uncheckin' everythin' in msconfig (Start, Run "msconfig", Startup tab, write down which ones be checked first) rebootin', an' then see if VSA runs thru without any problems...


----------



## gmacted

Torvus said:


> I'm having a strange issue with my setup. Using prop-sx with vsa and a 645mg servo. While running the program my servos stop responding about 2-3 seconds into the run. I then have to reset the controller to bring them back up. Running selenoids alone doesn't cause the problem.
> 
> I'm not running an external power supply, and the problem happens when using any servo. I don't have an oscillator installed, but not sure that would freeze up everything.
> 
> baud rates are correct at 38400
> 
> 
> Any thoughts?


You need that oscillator/resonator installed in the Prop-SX. That provides the external clock reference for the SX28 microcontroller.

Think of it this way. If an orchestra had no conductor conducting, how would the musicians know what speed to play at.

The other purpose of the oscillator/resonator is to allow the micorcontroller to operate at 50 MIPS. This speed is needed to update the servos position every 20 mS (milliseconds) since they're analog servos.


If you're not using an external supply what are you using? The Prop-SX itself cannot supply enough current to drive the 645 servos.


----------



## Torvus

gmacted said:


> You need that oscillator/resonator installed in the Prop-SX. That provides the external clock reference for the SX28 microcontroller.
> 
> Think of it this way. If an orchestra had no conductor conducting, how would the musicians know what speed to play at.
> 
> The other purpose of the oscillator/resonator is to allow the micorcontroller to operate at 50 MIPS. This speed is needed to update the servos position every 20 mS (milliseconds) since they're analog servos.
> 
> 
> If you're not using an external supply what are you using? The Prop-SX itself cannot supply enough current to drive the 645 servos.



I believe the power is the issue since I'm only running off the power from the 12v power source that's also driving the controller. 

I'll look through this thread for the better methods of doing this for the servos. I believe I remember you mentioning that you aren't running the power the same way they stated on the EFX site. 

I appreciate the help


----------



## gmacted

Torvus said:


> I believe the power is the issue since I'm only running off the power from the 12v power source that's also driving the controller.
> 
> I'll look through this thread for the better methods of doing this for the servos. I believe I remember you mentioning that you aren't running the power the same way they stated on the EFX site.
> 
> I appreciate the help


Torvus,

Power may be one issue, but you still need to install the 50 MHz resonator. It is not optional.

I am using a dual output supply. The power supply has outputs of +12V and +5V. I am running the +12V output to the Prop-SX and the +5V output to the servos. Since it is a single power supply, the +12V and +5V have a common ground in the power supply. If you are using two seperate power supplies you will need to connect the commons together at one point otherwise you will have issues. The easiest place to connect the two commons together would be on the Prop-SX GND terminal.


----------



## Torvus

Yeah, I definately understand the need for the resonator. It was a lack of research on my part when I ordered the parts, now I'm looking to see if I can find one locally. 

I got a response back from EFX as well, and they stated that power was more than likely the cause as suspected. The board is browning out and then tripping the reset. 

I'll see if I can find a dual power supply, just to help simplify things. 

Thanks for the information, I truly appreciate the help.


----------



## indeva

how long is everyones cat5 cable? I did 25 feet but my servos are kinda sketchy when they turn to my max setting? I'm wondering if the cable is too long and they are not getting enough current and that's why they wig out? I'm using the power supply from gym ghost and I'm running the board and three skulls off it

Any thoughs?


----------



## Dark lord

Cat5 is pretty thin for running distance & powering 3 skulls, try a separate power line for the skulls.I have 30 ft of cat5 & i believe someone here has run 50ft + ,
The servos take alot of juice & with 3 skulls the draw is heavier than then line can provide.


----------



## indeva

Hey dark lord, thanks for your response. So if your running 30 ft and im running 25 feet and you are not experiencing the same problem, maybe its not my line distance. Are you running a separate power line out side the cat5 to each skull? I have mine wired as im sure most people here do and thats two of the lines in the cat5 for power, two for ground and one for each command line. So 1 length of 25 feet is feeding one skull not three.

If its not the signal strength (although Im still going to test a shorter piece) has anyone else ran into this (servos wigging out when you move them towards their max setting)?

Thank you!


----------



## Uncle Mikey

*Distance problems*

Hello,
Has anyone tried running a longer 9 pin cable from thier computer to the ssc 32? Such as a 25', 50', 100'. and then running a servo booster cable from the ssc 32 to the servos?


----------



## Uncle Mikey

Servo bosster runs in line between the ssc 32 and each servo. I found mine here and it fixed the problem. Boosted Servo Extensions


----------



## dionicia

I found earlier in this thread that Gym_Ghost and HalloweenBob suggested multiconductor wire (thermostat wire) for the skulls 16 or 18 gauge from McMaster-Carr. I found that they carried 6 strand wire and I selected 18 gauge. 

Even at 25 feet, the skulls are running like troopers.


----------



## indeva

Hello everyone,
Got my first routine final done, or just about. I still have a little smoothing to do on some of the movements so they are not so jerky but here it is

YouTube - 3 axis skulls Halloween


----------



## jimmyzdc

Hey guys...I finally got my skull working correctly. My servos got messed up some how and I think the gears got stripped. I replaced the servos and everything works perfectly. Now I got my buckys this week and unpacked one today. I took off the skull but now I'm kinda confused hwo I need to attach my skull. Do I need to cut off the large bolt that goes to the hook on top of the skull? I see a small thin rod sticking out the spine is that what I attach my 3axis rod to? It seems real thin. Anyone have any pix on how they attached theirs or explain how they did it?? 

Thanks!!!


----------



## gmacted

jimmyzdc said:


> Hey guys...I finally got my skull working correctly. My servos got messed up some how and I think the gears got stripped. I replaced the servos and everything works perfectly. Now I got my buckys this week and unpacked one today. I took off the skull but now I'm kinda confused hwo I need to attach my skull. Do I need to cut off the large bolt that goes to the hook on top of the skull? I see a small thin rod sticking out the spine is that what I attach my 3axis rod to? It seems real thin. Anyone have any pix on how they attached theirs or explain how they did it??
> 
> Thanks!!!



Jimmyzdc,

I'm currently working on attaching my bucky skull to my bucky. I am going to attach my skull to the main rod, the thin rod is way too thin. It would never support the weight of the skull.

The problem with the main rod is that it bends an inch or two down the spine. I used a dremel tool to modify a coupling nut that I'm going to attach using automotive epoxy putty. The coupling nut will basically be flush with the spine and the axis rod will screw into the coupling nut a be held in place with thread lock.

I'll take some pictures as I do it.


----------



## Phoenix

Uncle Mikey said:


> Hello,
> Has anyone tried running a longer 9 pin cable from thier computer to the ssc 32? Such as a 25', 50', 100'. and then running a servo booster cable from the ssc 32 to the servos?


the maximum distance of Serial cable is 75'


----------



## jimmyzdc

Gmacted,

Are you going to cut the thicker rod so it's shorter? Since right now it went all the way to the top of the skull its way to high to attach the axis rod too. Pics would be awesome! 

Thanks


----------



## MsMeeple

I have a question. Is it normal for the servos to get warm? And if that's not normal, what are we doing wrong?

Thanks,
MsM


----------



## Dark lord

Cut the main rod & rethread it..........thats what I'm about to do.


----------



## indeva

I started messing around with lights, after looking at the video the light is so bright you can't see the skull really well in the video, but in person the light highlights the moving jaw well. 


Love to hear what you think.


Anyone got anymore test videos of there skulls


Video of "Bad Moon Rising" and "Dragula"


----------



## wicc_ed

Indeva... Looks good! What are you using for lights? and to control them?
What if you were to put filters on the lights... say green on one, yellow on another and blue on the third? Im not sure how it would look.. however It might cast different personalities on each of them.... just a thought.


----------



## indeva

Thanks wicc ed!
Thats a good idea with the filters. Anyone know what to use as a color film or something?

The lights was just me throwing switches for now. Im wait for my Kit 74 relay board to arrive and then "Phoenix" is suppose to tell me how to make VSA control the timing. I hope its simply!!

Heres the lights


----------



## wicc_ed

I have a k74 (although I ordered mine pre assembeled). VSA will Recongnize it and control each of the relays. Its a little easier then programming the skulls, since it is just a on or off. 
Those lights look like they are halogen bulbs? I was gonna suggest just using colored bulbs but its not a standard socket. However Last year I bought a "flaming cauldren" from spencers... it uses hallogen bulbs, and came with orange and red filters. The are just a 1/8 inch thick plastic disk. (but it has a fan to blow the silk flames... and to remove heat from the bulbs). however... just did a search for colored halogen on google and found some interesting bulbs.


----------



## guitarist155

gel filters for stage lighting can withstand the heat you should able to get them at a local lighting or dj store or online like this Buy American DJ CGS-8A 8x8 Gel Sheet Packet A online at Musician's Friend


----------



## gmacted

jimmyzdc said:


> Gmacted,
> 
> Are you going to cut the thicker rod so it's shorter? Since right now it went all the way to the top of the skull its way to high to attach the axis rod too. Pics would be awesome!
> 
> Thanks


 The spinal column procedure is complete and was successful.

 Yes, you will need to cut the thicker rod to make it shorter. I actually had to cut the thinner rod (maybe an inch or so) too as it was in the way. In order to cut the rod, you will need to remove some of the vertibrae and then replace them once the coupling nut is in place. I haven't had time to mount the head yet, but will do this tonight. I have taken pictures along the way and will most likely post them tonight.


----------



## gmacted

Dark lord said:


> Cut the main rod & rethread it..........thats what I'm about to do.



I thought of doing that, but I could see any way of doing this easily and being able to get it low enough in the spinal column. I'd like to see some pictures when your done if possible.


----------



## MsMeeple

indeva said:


> I started messing around with lights, after looking at the video the light is so bright you can't see the skull really well in the video, but in person the light highlights the moving jaw well.
> 
> 
> Love to hear what you think.
> 
> 
> Anyone got anymore test videos of there skulls


They look great! Especially like the second song. Our skull keeps doing weird things, so no test video yet. One minute everything works great and then the next minute things are moving by themselves and he does an excorist head movement! But haven't given up yet.

MsM


----------



## Uncle Mikey

Today I recieved a new 100' 9 pin cable. I ran the cable from my computer to the ssc-32 controller 100' away from the computer. The prop worked fine no hitches no glitches. All four servos responed correctly and from what I can see no lag or missed q's.


----------



## gmacted

MsMeeple said:


> They look great! Especially like the second song. Our skull keeps doing weird things, so no test video yet. One minute everything works great and then the next minute things are moving by themselves and he does an excorist head movement! But haven't given up yet.
> 
> MsM


That sounds like a power problem to me. If the servos don't have enough current, they could act strangely.


----------



## Conman

wow, thats really nice, i like the 2nd song


----------



## gmacted

gmacted said:


> The spinal column procedure is complete and was successful.
> 
> Yes, you will need to cut the thicker rod to make it shorter. I actually had to cut the thinner rod (maybe an inch or so) too as it was in the way. In order to cut the rod, you will need to remove some of the vertibrae and then replace them once the coupling nut is in place. I haven't had time to mount the head yet, but will do this tonight. I have taken pictures along the way and will most likely post them tonight.


Here is a link to the pictures I took.

I hope this helps.


----------



## MsMeeple

gmacted said:


> That sounds like a power problem to me. If the servos don't have enough current, they could act strangely.


How and where can we check that?
Here are a few photos of our set up.
We ended up with a 2 axis with moving jaw because one of the servos didn't work.


----------



## gmacted

Trying to determine if the power supply is the problem would be a tricky thing without an oscilloscope. If you have a voltmeter, you could monitor the voltage output of the supply. During the entire routine, the voltage should remain constant. If there is a large current draw and the power supply is not capable of supplying the current, the voltage will "fold back" to compensate. This can be described as a "brown out".

What are you using for a power supply? Voltage and current rating? What are you using for servos? This will help to determine if the power supply is the problem.

Another thing that caught my eye is the power switch. What's the current rating on the switch? Does it get warm? If so, this could be your problem. You could try and short out or remove the switch to see if your problem goes away.


----------



## Kammo

Ok I have gone through like 300 post trying to find the answer to a question.. So now Im just gonna ask because Im sure its a easy one...
What is the power needed to power a ssc-32 controller? I have several walwarts all at different ratings but am not sure if I will have the correct power or if I will have to order one. I have the ssc-32 controller on its way to me now and should be here in a couple of days so need to know what kind of power I will need.
Thanks...


----------



## HalloweenBob

That all depends on how many servos you will be using.

There are 2 ways to power the SSC-32.

You can power the board and all the servos with one power supply, or you can power the board separately from the servos.

It would be a good idea to be sure that you are providing at least 1 amp of current for every two servos you are running. That way, you will not run into any trouble.

If you want to be able to keep the card powered up, but switch on and off the power to your servos, you will want to power them separately.

The board can take from 6 to 9VDC input and 200 or 3oo ma is a fine amount of current just for the board.

You can power the servos separately with a 5 or 6VDC power supply using the current formula I mentioned earlier.

If you power them together, you can use any power supply that has enough current to run all your servos, and anywhere from 6 to 9VDC.

I hope that clears things up.


----------



## MsMeeple

gmacted said:


> Trying to determine if the power supply is the problem would be a tricky thing without an oscilloscope. If you have a voltmeter, you could monitor the voltage output of the supply. During the entire routine, the voltage should remain constant. If there is a large current draw and the power supply is not capable of supplying the current, the voltage will "fold back" to compensate. This can be described as a "brown out".
> 
> What are you using for a power supply? Voltage and current rating? What are you using for servos? This will help to determine if the power supply is the problem.
> 
> Another thing that caught my eye is the power switch. What's the current rating on the switch? Does it get warm? If so, this could be your problem. You could try and short out or remove the switch to see if your problem goes away.


Hi gmacted, thanks for the response.

We are using sg5010 servos and a mini ssc card
The card has two power sources. One is a 9 volt battery (in the black compartment) and the other is an adapter/wall wart thingie. Its input is 100v-240vac 50-60hz 0.2a Output is 5vdc 1.5a
Pieter built the box and added the power switch himself. 
I'm pretty sure he has an oscilloscope and a voltmeter. I'll pass your suggestions on to him so he can check the switch and output during the routine.

MsM


----------



## Kammo

Ok thank you very much HalloweenBob. I think I understand.. I will be using the SSC-32, 3 HS-422 and 1 HS-81... 
I should have said that when I asked the question...

This is for a 3 axis bucky with tilt, rotate, nod & mouth. (HS-81 is for the mouth)


----------



## gmacted

MsMeeple said:


> Hi gmacted, thanks for the response.
> 
> We are using sg5010 servos and a mini ssc card
> The card has two power sources. One is a 9 volt battery (in the black compartment) and the other is an adapter/wall wart thingie. Its input is 100v-240vac 50-60hz 0.2a Output is 5vdc 1.5a
> Pieter built the box and added the power switch himself.
> I'm pretty sure he has an oscilloscope and a voltmeter. I'll pass your suggestions on to him so he can check the switch and output during the routine.
> 
> MsM



MsMeeple,

I think your power supply may be the source of your problem. I couldn't find any current specs on your servos, but I think that 1.5A may not be enough current to drive them consistantly. I would suggest trying a "beefier" servo supply (3A) to see if that will fix your problem. I suspect that it will.


----------



## MsMeeple

gmacted said:


> MsMeeple,
> 
> I think your power supply may be the source of your problem. I couldn't find any current specs on your servos, but I think that 1.5A may not be enough current to drive them consistantly. I would suggest trying a "beefier" servo supply (3A) to see if that will fix your problem. I suspect that it will.


Here are the specs that I was able to find:

Tower Pro HS-SG-5010 Standard servo

Spec:

- Size 41mm x 38mm x 20mm
- Weight 1.4 oz
- Operation Voltage 4.8V - 6.0V
- Compatible with JR/Futaba/Hitec/GWS
- Connector Wire Length 320mm
- Servo arms and screws are included

Features:-
- Operating Speed: 0.20sec/60 degrees 4.8V 0.16 sec/60 degrees 6.0V
- Torque: 3.1 kg/cm (4.8V) 4.5 kg/cm (6.0V)
- 3 pole ferrite, all nylon gear. Top boll bearing.

They were given (key word here lol) to us by someone who was involved in radio controlled airplanes but stopped.


----------



## Haunted Wolf

gmacted said:


> I'm using a Prop-SX controller (with a 50 MHz oscillator) and have my baud rate set to 38400.


I'm using an SX as well...did you use a joystick to capture movements? It would be nce if VSA let you capture all 3 axis movements at once...

I've been thinking about trying Parlay...has anyone used PayLay with an SX? Can Parlay be used to create a VSA file without being attached to a controller? I'm going to play with it a little tonight to see what I can do.

Thanks in advance!

- HW


----------



## gmacted

MsMeeple said:


> Here are the specs that I was able to find:
> 
> Tower Pro HS-SG-5010 Standard servo
> 
> Spec:
> 
> - Size 41mm x 38mm x 20mm
> - Weight 1.4 oz
> - Operation Voltage 4.8V - 6.0V
> - Compatible with JR/Futaba/Hitec/GWS
> - Connector Wire Length 320mm
> - Servo arms and screws are included
> 
> Features:-
> - Operating Speed: 0.20sec/60 degrees 4.8V 0.16 sec/60 degrees 6.0V
> - Torque: 3.1 kg/cm (4.8V) 4.5 kg/cm (6.0V)
> - 3 pole ferrite, all nylon gear. Top boll bearing.
> 
> They were given (key word here lol) to us by someone who was involved in radio controlled airplanes but stopped.


MsMeeple,

Maybe I didn't choose the correct wording. I didn't mean current (recent) specs, I meant "current draw" (as in amperage requirements). I was able to find those specifications, but I couldn't find how much current they would draw under normal load conditions. I still think your power supply is not supplying enough current (Amps) for the servos to function during heavy load times (i.e. all moving at the same time).


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## gmacted

Haunted Wolf said:


> I'm using an SX as well...did you use a joystick to capture movements? It would be nce if VSA let you capture all 3 axis movements at once...
> 
> I've been thinking about trying Parlay...has anyone used PayLay with an SX? Can Parlay be used to create a VSA file without being attached to a controller? I'm going to play with it a little tonight to see what I can do.
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> - HW


 I did not use a joystick to capture the motion. I did it all by hand.

Could you post a link to "parlay". I'm not familiar with that. 

You can use a Vex transmitter with a Prop SX to capture all of your motion at the same time. I bought one to see how it works, but I don't plan on doing anything with it until after Halloween.


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## dionicia

Here you go. Here is a a link to a thread with Parlay. 

http://www.halloweenforum.com/group-buys/67858-vsa-group-buy.html#post447539


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## Haunted Wolf

gmacted said:


> I did not use a joystick to capture the motion. I did it all by hand.
> 
> Could you post a link to "parlay". I'm not familiar with that.
> 
> You can use a Vex transmitter with a Prop SX to capture all of your motion at the same time. I bought one to see how it works, but I don't plan on doing anything with it until after Halloween.


Were you able to use VEX with VSA?

Or...are you running completely standalone?


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## dionicia

What type of speakers is everyone hooking up to their Skulls? I would like to use some rock speakers that will be near the skull but I am not sure how to connect them to my laptop. Is there an adapter I can use to go from speaker wire to plug into the laptop?


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## gmacted

Haunted Wolf said:


> Were you able to use VEX with VSA?
> 
> Or...are you running completely standalone?


I haven't done anything with it yet and don't plan to until after Halloween.


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## gmacted

dionicia said:


> Here you go. Here is a a link to a thread with Parlay.
> 
> http://www.halloweenforum.com/group-buys/67858-vsa-group-buy.html#post447539


Thanks for the link.


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## gmacted

dionicia said:


> What type of speakers is everyone hooking up to their Skulls? I would like to use some rock speakers that will be near the skull but I am not sure how to connect them to my laptop. Is there an adapter I can use to go from speaker wire to plug into the laptop?


I'm using standard computer speakers for mine (Creative Inspire T10), but my skulls will be in my front entrance so I really don't need the volume for outside use.

As far as using non-computer speakers, a laptop sound card would not be able to drive non-powered speakers. You would need an amplifier for that.


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## dionicia

I just completed a rough draft of one of the programs Vincent will be doing this Halloween. Still needs some revising but it's coming along nicely. 

Vincent 3 Axis - AZ Haunters

Sorry about the link. I don't know how to embed a video yet.


----------



## dionicia

I just discovered something that may help with quickly programming your routines using VSA.

Once you have one Event in your routine (doing a wave analysis to create the jaw movements does count) you can then click on the Red Stop sign on the right, change the device you are using (nod, tilt or rotate) and start recording the movements. This way, you can record the whole events in no time.

I finished one in a few minutes using my laptop touchpad (I found the movement for me is more fluid that way).

I hope this helps folks who are having a tough time with programming the events.


----------



## Kammo

Speaking of programming VSA, is there anyone out there that would be willing to share there saved programming that they have done on VSA?
I would like something to start with and change up in places that I want changed.
Im working with 3 DMX light controllers for scene setting and sound sceems. Also using 1 bucky 3 axis skull with tilt, nod, rotate and mouth.

If there is anybody out there that wouldn't mind sharing there time and effort with a few old or new VSA programming routines I would greatly appreciate it!!!

And like I said I will be changing things here and there so It would be different than the original.

Thanks guys!!!!


----------



## Dark lord

dionicia said:


> I just discovered something that may help with quickly programming your routines using VSA.
> 
> Once you have one Event in your routine (doing a wave analysis to create the jaw movements does count) you can then click on the Red Stop sign on the right, change the device you are using (nod, tilt or rotate) and start recording the movements. This way, you can record the whole events in no time.
> 
> I finished one in a few minutes using my laptop touchpad (I found the movement for me is more fluid that way).
> 
> I hope this helps folks who are having a tough time with programming the events.


Thanks for the "quick" tip. Been to busy to play with it yet .............


----------



## dionicia

What type of routine are you looking for Cammo?


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## Kammo

really anything at this point dionicia. I have 3 DMX dimmers that will be running my whole yard. Lights for cemetery, spider scene, witch scene, Christmas Halloween lights for the walk way. Then I have a 3 axis greeter. using ENTTEC.
So anything really, I just want something to start with that I can alter.


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## dionicia

How about this?

It is in txt format so you may need to import it into VSA.


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## Troy

guys I have a issue with one of my skulls, the pastic part that's attached directly to the tilt servo motor (it has two small edges that the armature attaches too) is broke, the two side edges somehow broke off, currently I have it rigged but need a new part. I looked at servo city but could not find it. Anyone know where one or two can be had? These skulls are halloween Bob's first build (quartet). I need one fast!


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## Troy

Here is a pic that shows the part I need.


----------



## skullboy

Servo city should have them,if not PM me I may have one downstairs.


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## skullboy

Is this it?
143SH Adjustable Arm


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## Troy

Yes, I see the arm but I need the piece that's under the arm (arm attaches to it, the screw actually goes into it. Or does this piece all come as one?


----------



## skullboy

Ok its early but,if you need the lil plastic piece which slides onto the servo and the arm slides into,I THINK it comes as one piece.If you mean the splined piece which comes off the servo I do not know what needs to be ordered.


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## Toetag

I dont think they sale those replacement parts but heres inside of a servo so you can see the whole piece.

How to modify a servo


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## Toetag

Or maybe they do Servo Gearsets


----------



## Troy

What I need is the piece the arm slides into, then the little screw goes through the arm and into the piece I need. I don't need the arm I need the "arm holder".


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## Toetag

Ooops sorry i thought you talking about the shaft piece.


----------



## Troy

skullboy said:


> Is this it?
> 143SH Adjustable Arm


after looking again at this it looks like the piece I need is included, it's the piece directly under the arm...Thanks to Skullboy who is gonna hook me up!


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## HalloweenBob

It is the little square piece that fits over the gears on the servo shaft and that holds the armature in place, but allows you to adjust it's length.


Call servo city at 620-221-0123. Do it on Monday since they are closed on Fridays.

Explain the piece and even email them the picture. I bet they will send you one free.

Tell them that all 18 servos in this project came from them.

I don't see that they sell the part separately, but I know they have them there, and the people there have been good to work with.


Since they come one to a pack when you buy the servos, I don't have any spares, but someone here might, I really think they will send you one however.


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## Dark Hawke

Look for a local hobby store that does a lot of radio controlled airplanes etc. I'm sure they have the parts you need. I found mine not to be close in price with Servo City


----------



## Kammo

Thank you very much dionicia, but it wont work. I got it to go into vsa after changing the .txt to .vsa but it isn't working. also says it cant find the Rules.wav. I know that is the sound file you used for your greeter.
I think I need the actual Rules.vsa file you save and If I could get the wav file as well, I have someone that is going to record a greeting for me so I wont be using yours but need something to work off of.
That would be great if you could send those files... and thank you very much for trying to help me!!!


----------



## buckaneerdude

dionicia said:


> I just discovered something that may help with quickly programming your routines using VSA.
> 
> Once you have one Event in your routine (doing a wave analysis to create the jaw movements does count) you can then click on the Red Stop sign on the right, change the device you are using (nod, tilt or rotate) and start recording the movements. This way, you can record the whole events in no time.
> 
> I finished one in a few minutes using my laptop touchpad (I found the movement for me is more fluid that way).
> 
> I hope this helps folks who are having a tough time with programming the events.


Are you using the event recorder in VSA 4? I've had some trouble getting movements fluid using a mouse, they are kind of jerky. Did using the laptop trackpad make a big difference or just a noticeable one? I played around with the adjustment that is supposed to smooth things out but I didn't notice much of a difference.


----------



## dionicia

I am using Version 3 of VSA. 

The rules wave is listed here AZ Haunters Kammo if that would help. 

If you load the wav of the rules your friend is making and do a waveanalysis, you can easily record the rest of the movements by just clicking on the red stop sign then selecting the device (servo) you want to record the event on and away you go. I was able to record the other day in less than 5 minutes one of my routines. Once you get the hang of it, you'll be recording all finds of stuff.


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## Nidhogg

gmacted said:


> Here is a link to the pictures I took.
> 
> I hope this helps.


You kind of lost me in your pics. I assume there are 2 rods in the skeleton spine. What are you using the liquid steel for? Is this what you use to attach the coupler to the rod you cut? The Buckey axis rod then screws into this coupler?

Scott


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## Kammo

ok dionicia im not quite understanding the whole 



> waveanalysis, you can easily record the rest of the movements by just clicking on the red stop sign then selecting the device (servo) you want to record the event on and away you go


Can you explain a bit more?


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## dionicia

I mentioned it a few pages ago but go up to Tools and click on Load Audio File. Once you have loaded a Wav file, then go up to Tools and click on Wavemotion analysis. You will need to know the Min and Max settings for your jaw servo and you will need to select the device (servo) that this is for. About 10 seconds later, your done. Then you can click on the red stop sign and record movements for the other servos. 

Make sure to wear a helmet, you might hit yourself like you should have had a V8 like I did.


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## wicc_ed

Dionicia, I can play your wav, but I cant download it to attach it to your vsa. When I right click it to save it, it saves the web page.


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## dionicia

PM me so I can email you the WAV. 

I wasn't able to upload it to the forum.


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## HalloweenBob

Here is the file.

Right click on the link and choose "Save Target As" from the menu. Save it to your hard drive.

http://rewindshow.com/skull/AZRules.wav

The original has been processed heavily, with an echo added. It has also been run through some kind of noise filter which has caused those odd frequency squeals called audio artifacts.

I have cleaned up the file as best I can and boosted some of the deficient bass frequencies.

I also muted all the dead spaces inbetween speaking. The background noise in the file will get programmed in as speech when you run waveform analysis.

Be sure your files are clean with no background noise before you do that.

Good luck.


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## dionicia

I was trying to get rid of a hum that was in the background. I'm still learning about Goldwave. 

Thank you for fixing it HB.


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## Haunted Wolf

dionicia said:


> I mentioned it a few pages ago but go up to Tools and click on Load Audio File. Once you have loaded a Wav file, then go up to Tools and click on Wavemotion analysis. You will need to know the Min and Max settings for your jaw servo and you will need to select the device (servo) that this is for. About 10 seconds later, your done. Then you can click on the red stop sign and record movements for the other servos.
> 
> Make sure to wear a helmet, you might hit yourself like you should have had a V8 like I did.


So, did you do wave analysis over and over for each of the servos? Once each for jaw, nod, tilt, and rotate? Interesting idea...


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## dionicia

Just the Jaw. Then I recorded events for the rest.


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## CaptnJackSparrow

Aye, wav analysis only be werkin' fer th' jaw, voices don' do much fer 'ead movements, 'less they be th' voices in yer 'ead.. mine keep sayin' "Stab th' 'eart, live ferever"

Jack


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## Haunted Wolf

So, what power supplies are people using for their servos? Anyone find a good and cheap place to get them?


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## CaptnJackSparrow

If ya has any power cubes from old routers (DLink be wot I use) they provide 5DVC at 2amps, enugh ta run 4-5 servos, or 4 an' th' comtroller. Be many computer PS's tha' work too, as they 'ave 5VDC taps..

This be a shameless plug fer me Pirate an' Spooky Font an' VSA page, 'tis over 1100 hits fer fonts, music, sounds, an' pirate clips.. 
Captain jack Sparrows Pirate Font, VSA & Prop Music page

Capt Jack


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## dionicia

Hey Capt'n, how is the haunt coming along? How many of the skulls were you able to put together?


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## CaptnJackSparrow

It be sailin' 'long fine 'luv.. 'past week, off I was, buildin' th' Pearl an' Tia Dalma's cabin, th' jail be finished (fer th' pirates ta get th key from th' dog) an' me two Bucky's arrived. I be off tomorrow moring (comin back from Maui I am tonight), then only Thursday I 'ave ta build 4 jaw-only skulls. Fortunate I am ta be off th' from th' 23rd ta th' 1st, so still prayin' I am I get me crew togather in time.. Pix of it all I will post sometime Monday afternoon, o' th' ship an' cabin..

I did see yer skull on e's Bay.. wish ya luck on it luv.. no trouble I think you'll 'ave findin' a 'ome fer 'im.. arrrg! 

Capt. Jack


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## HalloweenBob

*Rising From The Ashes...*

I thought I would share this year's incarnation of my skeletal Quartet.

After selling the first set I made last year, I thought it was over.

This year, however presented itself with new unexpected opportunities. First off, Joel from Graveyard Madness, whom I am now working with set me up with the parts I needed to get a new quartet going.

Then, I got involved in two haunted haouse projects this year. I was not expecting to have a place to use my quartet since I was moving to a condo and didn't have any land of my own.

The first was Wilson Castle which is in Rutland, VT

Welcome to the Wilson Castle Homepage

Here are a couple of pictures:


















My quartet is performing on the porch where people wait in line to get into the castle. The porch is the covered area you see in the second picture with all the arches.

Here is the quartet all set up by the entrance door:










Here ia a shot from the first night last weekend of all the people in line before we started:










and then you can see this looking the other way to see what the people in line are looking at:












....more in my next post.....


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## HalloweenBob

The saga continues this weekend at the castle. the 24th and 25th.

Then I pack up my toys and move the group to the Woodstock Inn and Resort in Woodstock, VT where they will be singing and greeting guests in the main lobby.










You can see more about the woodstock Inn here:

Vermont Hotels & Lodging | Woodstock Inn & Resort | Vermont Vacation Lodging

The town of Woodstock loves Halloween! Every year, they shut down the main road through the town at both ends. Every house on the street is decorated and they set the kids loose for trick or treating. Everyone ends up at the Woodstock Inn for hot cider, treats and a sit by the warm fire.

This year, after deciding to add my quartet, they also decided to do a walk through haunted house for the kids. They got me to help design it for them.

It will include a lightning storm flashing while they go down a grand staircase with lots of windows, the new Hallowindow projection, a dark walk through including dry ice fog, and several surprises starting with a witch and a cauldron and ending with a dot room.

This is the first year they have tried a walkthrough. Hopefully, it will become a regular thing.


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## doutcha

wow wow n wow congrats on your new project this must b awesome for u to do such nice things n have them diplayed in a excuse me a castle !!!!! GREAT JOB and i cant thank you enough for making me discover this forum i just love everybodys ideas n enjoy the good work n effort everybody does thanks n HAPPY HALLOWEEN


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## bandacoot

Awesome... I need to move to this town.. Any systems analyst positions open there??

keep us updated bob! very good work!


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## HalloweenBob

I did other stuff at the Castle as well. I set up a ligtning strobe outside the stained glass window behind the organ on the main staircase:










here's a closer shot of the landing. I placed a large speaker on the ledge between the organ and the window that played organ music and the thunder track. The strobe outside the window (a 750Watt strobe) was synced to the thunder track. the organist slowly sways back and forth.










And here is another prop I built this year for the castle in the tourture chamber.... The functional Guillotine.


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## dionicia

Great job on the new quartet and the two haunts HB. Woodstock sounds like a haunters paradise.


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## wicc_ed

So very cool! So did you use the same routines, or did you get to make some new ones? Did you get a chance to do some video for us? 
Hey... what about the saber tooth thingy... or other skellies you found in the basement... they wouldnt let you animate them? lol


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## Push Eject

Oh For Pete's Sake, Bob! As always, ridiculously brilliant.


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## HalloweenBob

To answser some questions,

I did use the same routines I did last year, but also added 3 new ones to the mix for this year. I hope to add another three for next year.

It is sometimes difficult to find songs that are:

Halloween Related
Sung by a female lead singer and 3 male backups
Not heavy metal (it has to sound like something a small quartet dressed like these guys would actually sing)

There are a few, but they are limited in number. Two of our songs we wrote and sang ourselves. We may do more of that. I have added missing voices to several others to fill them out.

Yes, I did take video of the 3 new songs at the castle and will post them ASAP. Been pretty busy the last few days, butr I'll see what I can do.

As for the real skellys in the basement...

I get to work along side them, but I'm not allowed to bring them back to life. Some silly regulations they have at the college....


And thank you for all the other nice comments.


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## buckaneerdude

OMG, wow! Amazing!!


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## HalloweenBob

Here is a video of one of the new songs for this year.

YouTube - 2008 Sindy Skinless and the Decomposers

I took video of all three new songs, but they all came out like this one, with all the faces washed out!!!

The crew will be set up again and singing on Halloween night. I will try and get new video of all the songs then and hopefully I won't have these lighting issues.

This will give you an idea anyway. This was shot in the Music Room inside the castle. Just out the door behind them and slightly to the left is the master staircase. This room was the waiting room where people came in from the line out on the veranda just before going through the walkthrough.

I'll post the rest after I get new video on Halloween night.


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## dionicia

Very cool.


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## Kammo

Issue diverted.... THANKS CaptnJackSparrow... Now on to the routines for me....
Hey Jack, your gonna post us some video of your setup in action when its done right????


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## CaptnJackSparrow

Ahoy HB, 

I jus' looked back thru th' thread (all th' way from pg 1), I was running inta trouble with too much clean-up nessessary on each channel ta remove music-triggered servo event, then rememberin' yer post ref: making a .wav track, sung to th' song ya want ta' use...

Bein' th' doofus pirate I am, when I moved me scallywags from th' workbench, to outside on the ship, I neglected ta keep them in th' same order, so ye can imagine wha' havoc ensued when I plugged 'em in and powered them up fer a test... Aye, head's be swivelin' round like Linda Blair's, noddin' like th' lil dog in a car window an' jaws lookin' like these guys danced on rusty nails.. so I 'ad to pretty much re-do ALL th' routines I had made... BUT...

THIS time, I did it th' smart way... ya know, yer way, 'mate... I stuck me iPod buds in me ears, cued up Goldwave v5.0, hit th' play button on me iPod, th' Record button on Goldwave and sang me lil 'eart out.. repeatedly, ta each track I needed. Fortunately I fly better than I sing, bu' no worries tho, it nigh be put on th' speakers.. Clean, no music, no extra sounds, saved in .wav format. Tomorrow they get loaded inta VSA, and onta th' jaw track fer each character.. Wish I 'ad done it tha' way ta begin with..

Yer quartet be lookin' proper ta my eyes, 'mate! Good show! How did ye stand up yer Bucky's? I can not tell what you made yer stands out of..

Capt. Jack


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## HalloweenBob

Capt. Jack... You can see the stands better in these new pictures. They are just a metal post up the middle with a hole in the top. I made small aluminum dics that fit in the hole at the end of the pipe and get secured by 2 set screws. The aluminum discs (about an inch lond and also about an inch in diameter) are tapped in the center so that the main spine rod of the bucky threds right into them.

The meteal posts and secured into small plywood stands at the bottom.

Here is a setup of what it all looked like at the Woodstock Inn Halloween night.










It was a fun night at the Woodstock Inn. A couple thousand people came through the doors last night and the streets were full of costumed trick or treaters. This town does things right!

My quartet sang continuously using the macro program I wrote and even played spooky intrumental music inbetween performances. I wasn't able to get up and get pictures until late in the night, so I missed all the big crowds that gathered to watch, but here is a small one at about 9:30PM. There was about 5 minutes between performances. It took an hour before it repeated a song.










I did take new video and will post some as soon as I get it mixed down.

Anyway, we also did a walkthrough in the basement of the hotel. You had to go down this staircase to get to it.










I had my lightning flashing in through the windows from outside and a speaker behind the people at the top of the stairs for the thunder effect.

Here is a the line of people waiting to go through the walkthrough:










It was pretty much solid like this from 6:00 until 9:30PM.

And... In case you were wondering how I transport the quartet around....


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## wicc_ed

Can I say I love it.. I bet you got quite a few double takes driving through town!
Cant wait to see the video.


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## Texan78

Holy Hell that is funny with them in the car...LoL! 

I bet that was a lot of fun...


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## wicc_ed

Ok I just found a good deal on ebay for rod ends if you are building for next year. Unfortunately there are only 7 left, and it ends within 5 hours. 
eBay Motors: 5/16 x 5/16-24 Male Heim Joint Rod End Bearing (item 110303134449 end time Nov-01-08 21:12:31 PDT)


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## Dr Morbius

HB, looks like an absolutely georgious hotel...Looks like you had a blast! Congrats on all your success!


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## bfjou812

That is GREAT you did a fantastic job again. Now all that is needed is get the one with the head to wave at people while you drive past them. I bet you have made a lot of people wonder if they saw what they saw.  Again FANTASTIC job.


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## Kammo

Thank you wicc_ed, Now if you can find some cheap lindberg skulls Ill be set...
btw I got the last 6 rod ends.. Thank you very much for the hot tip..!


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## wicc_ed

OK B4 you get set on lindberg, check you local K-mart.... they have (had) some skulls that light up inside... they are lighter then the lindberg and bucky... so you can use a non metal gear servos (so the servos are cheaper). Also they were only 10.00 b4 halloween... so by tomorrow they should be 50 - 75% off (so you might get them for 2.50!). They are also slightly bigger then the lindbergs... giving you more room for your servos (and if you check out the thread "Morbius 3axis skull from KMART" link... you can see his design for 2 axis eyes. The only draw back is you have to cut the top of the skull off. However to me it is worth the savings and to have the extra room.


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## Kammo

Well actually, I found lindberg skulls just now for $12 a piece so I just ordered 3... I will keep a lookout at Kmart though, thanks for the tip..

here is where I got the lindbergs.. Rock Bottom Cemetery - Lindberg Skulls Sales


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## Dr Morbius

wicc_ed said:


> OK B4 you get set on lindberg, check you local K-mart.... they have (had) some skulls that light up inside... they are lighter then the lindberg and bucky... so you can use a non metal gear servos (so the servos are cheaper). Also they were only 10.00 b4 halloween... so by tomorrow they should be 50 - 75% off (so you might get them for 2.50!). They are also slightly bigger then the lindbergs... giving you more room for your servos (and if you check out the thread "Morbius 3axis skull from KMART" link... you can see his design for 2 axis eyes. The only draw back is you have to cut the top of the skull off. However to me it is worth the savings and to have the extra room.


True, you do have to use a utility knife to cut the top off, but it is very easy...Kinda like cutting a Blucky only a little thicker. They are easy to glue back on though. Positive side of it is you can cut it like a suture line (the squiglly cracks you see on skulls) so you arent stuck with a flat cut seam.


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## HalloweenBob

For those of you who want to order more kits from Graveyard Madness, the store will re-open sometime in Mid November. We will take orders again for the existing kits and start filling orders that have been emailed.

I will be taking over most of the 3 Axis Skull division going forward to help take the load off of Joel.

Just a note, He and I are working on a major design change that should be ready about Mid February. This should solve a lot of issues and also make the kits easier to put together and not require much, if any tweaking or adjustmants. This will also make routines much more transferrable.

In any case, starting Mid November, you will be able to order the old version, but the new design should be out in Mid February.

This is just a heads up as we have been getting a lot of email asking about it.


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## dionicia

Are there any other animatronics you guys are planning? 

Now that I know what I am doing, I am having a blast and wanting to try to make other things with servos.


----------



## redrom

wicc_ed said:


> OK B4 you get set on lindberg, check you local K-mart.... they have (had) some skulls that light up inside... they are lighter then the lindberg and bucky... so you can use a non metal gear servos (so the servos are cheaper). Also they were only 10.00 b4 halloween... so by tomorrow they should be 50 - 75% off (so you might get them for 2.50!). They are also slightly bigger then the lindbergs... giving you more room for your servos (and if you check out the thread "Morbius 3axis skull from KMART" link... you can see his design for 2 axis eyes. The only draw back is you have to cut the top of the skull off. However to me it is worth the savings and to have the extra room.


Is this the skull you were referring too?
Totally Ghoul Color Changing Fog Skull - Model 68418111 at Kmart.com


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## Dr Morbius

redrom said:


> Is this the skull you were referring too?
> Totally Ghoul Color Changing Fog Skull - Model 68418111 at Kmart.com


No, that one produces fog and is NOT hollow.


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## HalloweenBob

To go back a couple of posts....Yes there are more animatronics in the works for next season. Stay tuned for more developments.


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## wicc_ed

THIS IS the skull that I was refuring to...

http://www.halloweenforum.com/halloween-props/74115-morbius-3axis-skull-kmart.html


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## Kammo

WOW! Thats all I can say WOOOOOW!


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## HalloweenBob

OK, here are the final videos of all my new routines for this year. There are 3. One is still uploading on YouTube and will be available soon. The other two are below:

YouTube - Sindy Skinless and the Decomposers sing Jingle Bones


And


YouTube - Sindy Skinless & the Decomposers sing Swingin at the Seance


You can just search YouTube for "Sindy Skinless" and all three will show up along with the old one that didn't come out so well.

I will post the third one as soon as it completes it's upload.

I had to set them all up again in order to get useable video.

Thanks for watching.


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## dionicia

Great job HB.


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## HalloweenBob

Thank you.

Here's the last one:

YouTube - Sindy Skinless & the Decomposers do "Skeletons in my Closet"


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## wicc_ed

Amazing! How did you have time to rebuild these guys and come up/Record these songs with you new job? I would like to also mention great video this year with the different angles. Only thing that I can think of that could ever make it more would be Sindy tapping her foot to the beat. but that would require a wire that could be spotted.


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## Kammo

HAHAHAHAH those are AWESOME!!! I love it!!
nothing like comedy from the bone yard LOL..

Ya know.... watching all of these I cant help but think one of those guys needs a mustache.. just my thought..

BUT LOVE EVERY BIT OF IT BOB!!!
Cant wait to see whatcha got up your sleeve for next year!


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## bfjou812

Excellent job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## JAG435

Does anyone have a good wiring diagram starting from the head servoes to the servo controller and power supply?

Thank you,
Jerry Greene


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

Ahoy Jerry,

'ere be th' thread where I list me color code.. http://www.halloweenforum.com/old-group-buys/67876-servo-wiring-color-guide.html


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## Kammo

Thats the same one I used..


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## wicc_ed

So did anyone else build this prop this year? Show us your pics/video please


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## wicc_ed

Hey, For what its worth, I went to Big Lots, and found "Bag of Bones" they are made from styrofoam. It isnt a complete set, but it did have both feet, all leg bones up to the hips, including where they attach to the spine. (although either the hips, or the tail bone is sized wrong, - there is a gap, but could be filled in if needed). You only get 2 ribs, and a small portion of the spine (that could be used as the neck) Shoulder blades, all arm bones and 2 hands (which I used a exacto knife, and cut them at the joints, making the fingers fully posable). Point is... Im thinking that if the skelly is wearing a costume, the ribs wont matter, Im going to use chicken wire to fill out the chest. The styrofoam, will make it light enough to possibly use servos to move the arms and legs (via cables). These were on clearance for $10.00 (alot cheaper then bucky's if you dont want to spend a 100.00- not to mention lighter & more realistic then a blucky). I also just thought that they could be strengthend by applying a thin layer of paper mache over them?


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## Systematic Chaos

I have two skulls on order. I'll then be ordering a kit and giving this a try.


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## guitarist155

i built one for my seance room this year with a BOC, but he will be getting some new parts. the servo i used for the jaw is way too noisy and i am going to change it to a standard 425bb i am also doing a 2 axis eye mod and the BOC rgb leds.

i will post some video and pics from halloween soon


----------



## danandmeg

Wiring guide worked perfect Capt. by the way! We've already began design for next years haunt which promises to be a step up from this past year. I posted our skull vid in prop showcase section.


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## Mr_Chicken

Thanks for helping us all out, HalloweenBob! I did two 3-axis skulls this year (actually, I built one of them last year) for my quartet (the thread is here).
Oh, and CaptnJack's CAT-5 guide was a lifesaver!

Thanks, guys!


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## HalloweenBob

Great job! Good selection of songs. I'm glad that I was able to help.


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## HalloweenBob

Just a note to all who have been waiting for the Graveyard Madness store to re-open.

We had several false starts, but it is now officially open, and you can go in and place orders

We are transitioning to a new webaddress, so please take note that the store will be at www.graveyardskulls.com.

I know many have been asking when it will open up, so I thought I would post it here.

Also, we are still working on the new design. Expect to see that out sometime in February. For now, the same kits we sold last year are still available.

Thanks


----------



## HalloweenBob

To answer your questions in order:

1. Yes, there will be pictures of all the parts on the order pages. they were up there before, but new software was loaded and all that stuff has to be put up again. That will get done soon. There will also be a step by step assembly guide going up, and there is a forum on that site that I will monitor to answer specific questions about those kits and assembly.

2. The hinge idea. Yes, that sounds good. I was hoping to be able to animate her arm and just have her holding the mic without the stand. Maybe next year. But yes, I do want to add more body motion, ect. to all of them.

By the way Mark, I am also a fan of your work. I used to be a mobile DJ up until about 2005 and had all kinds of wild lighting equipment, much of which has been turned into Halloween props as well as most of my audio equipment.


----------



## gym_ghost

Hmmm... cylinders can be controlled with there movement. You will need to get two to act against each other or purchase a programmable air valve. 

Sometime in Feb I will be rolling out a very animated Grim Reaper. This prop has 18 air cylinders and 12 step motors controlling its movement. My arm with finger movement works by two air actuators and wire. This prop will have torso, arm, leg, finger, and head movement. Much of it will be very life like. The goal is to build for less than $2,500. At this time, we have invested over $6,500 but learning much and already building new components at a fraction of the cost.... so stay tune. 

Gym

P.S. Pictures will be loaded today on the store.


----------



## HalloweenBob

Thanks Mark! I see what you mean now.

That would look good.

I will give it thought, we'll see what happens for next year!

Now....about that "Compliance" thing.....Hmmm.....


----------



## Dr Morbius

From an article about the Atlantis show in Las Vagas:

Everybody in animatronics wants their figures to look human,'' says Bob Crean, vice president of operations for Advanced Animations. "But humans move fast, and it's sometimes difficult for animatronics to handle that kind of fast movement. The biggest challenge is to move fast, then quickly come to a dead stop.'' 

By incorporating hydraulic compliance, Advanced Animations engineers say they can solve the "boing'' problem. They accomplish it by employing dual-loop PID servo control. To provide force feedback, they place load cells from Entran Devices, Inc., Fairfield, NJ, between the cylinder's body and rod end. Force and position data are gathered in separate channels in a servo card. Using a proprietary combination of hardware and software in the servo card, the system processes force and position feedback signals, then responds with commands to dampen potential vibration. 

In digital pneumatics, Advanced Animations uses a system called Advanced Inertial Management (AIM) to achieve compliance. Key to AIM is a small, custom-molded bumper made from Texin®, a thermoplastic polyurethane made by Bayer Corp.'s Polymers Division, Pittsburgh, PA. By placing the Texin® bumper at each end of the stroke, engineers can program quicker robotic movements without the associated vibration, Crean says. "When a cylinder reaches the end of its stroke, it's going to bang,'' he says. "That's where you need compliance.'' 

Crean says that compliance can be costly and complex. For that reason, he says, it's best applied only to those situations where it's absolutely necessary. 

On "Atlantis,'' Crean believes that the quantity and quality of the moves has taken animatronics to a new level. "We can safely say that these are the most sophisticated animatronics anywhere,'' he says. 

The animatronics, together with the sound, video, and special effects, is thus far having the desired effect. "Atlantis" officially opened in August along with The Forum Shops, to an extravaganza that included blaring trumpets, indoor fireworks, and CNN coverage. "It's only an eight-minute show,'' he says. "But it's knocking the socks off the audiences.''

From Wikipedia:

Compliance is a new technology that allows faster, more realistic movements without sacrificing control. In the older figures, a fast limb movement would cause the entire figure to shake in a strange way. The Imagineers thus had to program slower movements, sacrificing speed in order to gain control. This was frustrating for the animators, who wanted faster movements in many cases. Compliance improves the situation by allowing limbs to continue past the points where they are programmed to stop; they then return quickly to the "intended" position, much as real organic body parts do. The various elements also slow to a stop at their various positions, instead of using the immediate stops that caused the unwanted shaking. This absorbs shock, much like the shock absorbers on a car or the natural shock absorption in a living body.


----------



## Dr Morbius

In short, compliance is the dampening of inertia. 
Here is an experiment you can try in your own car to demonstrate the concept of compliance.
Have you ever come to a stop sign and when you car stops you kind of keep going and can feel the car "lurch" to a stop? The brakes grab the car at the last moment, stopping the wheels but the car frame, body, and you inside in your seat keep moving for a fraction of a second and it can be felt.

Nex time when you come to a stop, just before the usual brake grab, release the brakes SLIGHTLY (wouldn't want anyone to run a stop sign for obvious reasons), then reapply them at the moment of stop. This may take a little practice, but you can get to the point when the car stops you feel no inertia AT ALL. Funny, this techique to give your passangers a comfy ride was taught to me by my driving instructor over 25 years ago. Little did I know he was teaching us compliance technology!


----------



## Dr Morbius

I was thinking about a poor mans solution for the problem of compliance and thought about torsion springs. They look like this:









Placed at the joints and adding straight coil springs to the cylinder connections they may provide a dampening effect. How to incorporate them in a multi axis joint? Well, I'm still working on that. But at least it's a spring-board (Get it? Spring? Board? It's a, I say it's a joke,son!)..to jump off from.


----------



## gym_ghost

Shock can be controlled by lever switches. by their placement with respect the cylinder moving whatever. I use two to slow down rapid movements smoothly. Basically when the first switch is activiated it in returns triggers the air solenoid to put air in the second port of the cylinder using less pressure. This brakes the cylinder. When it reaches the second switch, it turns everything off and tells the program to continue with that sub routine or we can use it to to have smooth arm waving motion - like a sword fight. 

Just my two cents!

graveyardmadness


----------



## the-bearded-one

Interesting idea to use RC car shocks. FYI not only can you adjust how the shocks dampen by changing the springs to be stiffer or softer but you can also change the thickness of the shock oil and or the baffle in the shock itself to get the desired damping.


----------



## Dr Morbius

the-bearded-one said:


> Interesting idea to use RC car shocks. FYI not only can you adjust how the shocks dampen by changing the springs to be stiffer or softer but you can also change the thickness of the shock oil and or the baffle in the shock itself to get the desired damping.


This assumes a constant rate of motion one way or the other. I'm sure Disney thought of all this and concluded that the dampening has to be "smart" so it adjusts "on the fly" depending on the inertia exerted at any one time on the joint, since animated motions vary by quite a bit, a stiff shock on the joint might work well for a very fast motion, but may hamper slower motion to the point of unnatural movement. That's why they use load cells to determine the force exerted on the cylinder, and feedback circuits to automatically adjust the valves. I think this may be a fruitless effort, but heck you never know.


----------



## Dr Morbius

300 bucks per axis is WAAAY out of my budget..I agree, tinkering is a good thing and may yield a solution for us meek home haunters.


----------



## wicc_ed

Ok I am wondering if we are working on redesigning the 3 axis skull to work with pneumatics instead of servos? Or are we taking it a step farther and adding additional movement with arms, legs, etc.?
If it is the latter, couldnt we use servos to control mini ball-valves to control the speed and volume of air into a cylinder?


----------



## wicc_ed

Mini Ball Valves... an air valve. Couldnt we use the servo to operate the valve to control the flow of the air into the cylinder? It would require 2 servos and 2 valves (one for extend and one for retract) the servo would be attached to the valve, the arm connected via linkage to the handle of the valve. As the servo moves it would open the valve allowing air in (at the speed and volume set by the servo). Then the second servo could be used to control the airflow in a counter push - Giving the "compliance" aspect.


----------



## spinman1949

*Thinking same thing.*

I have been thinking about this concept for about two weeks now.

Not sure if ball valve is correct choice, but your idea is directly inline with my thinking. 

I have been thiinking that some type of variable valve could control air flow rate. But I think you still need a solenoid to start and stop flow. 

If a servo could control the flow rate by opening the valve. A valve that could control both inlet and outlet, then using a linear resistor like the kind we used to use for slot cars, you could create a feed back circuit.

So here is how it would work.

Solenoid for each side of a dual throw cylinder. A linear resistor with a wiper attached to the actuator. Like piggyback. The program does two things. First it provides a preset position for the servo to set the rate for this particular movement. IE how fast do you want the arm to move. The resistor provides a current resistor value at home position. The program is looking for home resistor value + or - a value that would represent the position the actuator needs to achieve. If the value is + then solenoid A opens while flow rate servo opens to correct flow rate. Or if value is - then solenoid B opens. Since the flow rate is only required in one direction at a time, then only one servo would be required to control rate.

If the rate valve controls inlet and exhaust, then fairly precise metering should be possible.

As to the valve. Likely I may sound crazy, but I think the answer may lie in the kitchen sink. Anyone that has ever put in one of those single lever faucet's knows that they contain a very unique valve. It is actually two pieces of highly polished ceramic plates. I am thinking that a valve designed using this concept might work faster and more precisely than a ball valve. I also think it might require less effort than a ball valve. To test the theory, a ball valve should work fine.

If the servo could react fast enough, then controlling flow rate near the end of a movement command could effectively dampen the movement. 

The key of course will be a board that can react to resistance value and modify the servo position as the desired value is approached to dampen the movement. The board will also have to open the solenoid circuit ( IE flow shut off ) when the desired value is reached.


----------



## wicc_ed

Ok, I just fell in and over my head! LOL... So how do I control that with VSA?

PS.. Whoo hoo I just made it past post 1500!


----------



## spinman1949

*Some more for you to think about.*

Per Axis. I servo control and two relay controls. I figure you might not need the resistor for feed back.

It would be harder to control without the feedback, but if the servo controls the flow, then you should be able to establish a set time for the solenoid valve to open to achieve the desired throw.

So if you want the actuator to move quickly, then you open the servo control valve to a higher flow position and activate the solenoid for a shorter period of time. You could put limit switches at the extreme end of the desired maximun movement to open the circuit to the solenoid valve in case your calculations are off. You might even be able to program the servo to reduce flow based on time as well and accomplish your damping effect.

It will be tricky, but from what I have seen with VSA it certainly is doable. 

I still wish we could design a true feedback circuit, but I am not a circuit designer, so help will be required. 

As a second thought, one of the machines I work on uses an array of bounce sensors to read the contour of the flap on envelopes. It would be like having a bunch of IR sensors in a row. 

The array has about 20 sensors in around 3 inches. Two of these could provide a pretty accurate positioning reference for 6 inches of throw. 

Anyway,

I think you have a basic idea which can work. How you go about doing it is obviously the million dollar question. 

One other idea I have been playing with is a rotary valve that would be motor driven. The valve would provide flow to the cylinder. As the valve rotates it opens and closes a port. Still would need flow control. But the rotary valve would in effect rapidly pulse air to the cylinder. This would likely require a stepper motor for accurate control and proper positioning for a home position.


----------



## themindshaft

*Pneumatic positioning*

Bimba and Enfield both make position feedback cylinders, but they don't make the tiny ones. I think the smallest bore size is 1", so they would be too big to put in a skull. You could however put your own feedback resistor externaly on just about any cylinder using like a "slider" type pot. I will have my .3 micron inline air filter on monday and I'll try to make a vid of the Enfield servo valve and feeback cylinder I have in operation. You will be amazed!

Bill Ehrsam.


----------



## spinman1949

*How about the flow valve idea?*

The cost of these feedback systems is prohibitive. 

What do you think of the idea of using a ball valve to control flow?

I was thinking instead of controlling input flow, how about controlling exhaust?

Along with the use of an RC shock. I would lose the spring. Just the shock with the correct piston and fluid should smooth out any jerky movement.


----------



## Phoenix

When using pneumatics you should always control Exhaust flow, never input flow


----------



## themindshaft

*position controll.*

A ball valve driven with a hobby servo will respond too slowly for proper compliance. The Enfield valves use a linear motor and can respond 5 times faster than a standard solinoid valve. It's basicly just like a speaker voice coil. It has a center off position, and then can move in or out just like a speaker, to controll position. Here is a pic of the Enfield setup I have. The valve is the little black thing with all the hoses connected to it. The controller is nexed to it with the two heat sinks. Blue box is just a power supply. As you can see, there is a wire coming out of the bottom of the cylinder. That's the feedback leads. Basicly 10 ohm pot inside. This controlls a voltage from 0 to +10V and that is sent to a comparitor circut. Imagine a hobby servo circuit but larger (and works with 0 to +10V instead of a PWM signal). Then imagine the liniar motor of the valve as the motor in the hobby servo, and the feedback on the cylinder as the pot thats hooked to shaft of the hobby servo. 

Hope this helps,

Bill Ehrsam.


----------



## spinman1949

*Did not know!*

I have not used pneumatics yet. I have some cylinders so far. 

The ones used for the toons are spring loaded, so I know no control of exhaust was done with this application. I have two of the same cylinders and the exhaust is just a small hole in the cylinder. 

I am beginning to understand why controlling pneumatics to mimic servo's is very challenging.


----------



## themindshaft

*pneumatics*



Phoenix_UK said:


> When using pneumatics you should always control Exhaust flow, never input flow


This is only true for speed controll of a solinoid valve driven cylinder. The Enfield valve a true 5 way center off setup. But because of the liniar motor, it becomes the supply on off and the exaust flow all in one, so you dont need those hard to set "just right" needle valves on your cylinder or valve exausts. Bill Ehrsam.


----------



## Phoenix

themindshaft said:


> This is only true for speed controll of a solinoid valve driven cylinder. The Enfield valve a true 5 way center off setup. But because of the liniar motor, it becomes the supply on off and the exaust flow all in one, so you dont need those hard to set "just right" needle valves on your cylinder or valve exausts. Bill Ehrsam.



You can control exhaust on most single acting cylinders, it really depends on how cheap the cylinders are.

Generally where single acting cylinders are used then flow control isn't critical.

You can get flow regulators for controlling input pressure but they are all too often used incorrectly, if there is one thing that most people get wrong with pneumatics is the use of flow controls, I know some pretty experienced engineers who still get this wrong.

The problem with flow control is the pressure differential, when you flow control the input then on the supply side you get line pressure, and on the cylinder side you get atmospheric pressure rising to line pressure, giving you a varying pressure differential over time.

If you flow control the exhaust then you start with line pressure in the cylinder and atmospheric pressure on the exhaust, and as the cylinder vents it doesn't raise the exhaust pressure giving you a constant pressure differential until the cylinder has reached max stroke when the pressure will bleed down to atmospheric.


----------



## Phoenix

themindshaft said:


> This is only true for speed controll of a solinoid valve driven cylinder. The Enfield valve a true 5 way center off setup. But because of the liniar motor, it becomes the supply on off and the exaust flow all in one, so you dont need those hard to set "just right" needle valves on your cylinder or valve exausts. Bill Ehrsam.



I've never seen a flow control valve in a servo pneumatic system, the servo valve is the 'flow' controller


----------



## themindshaft

*valve*

Yes. You use 80 psi instead of the usual 30 to 40 psi, and the valve can drive a double acting cylinder with insane precision. When the "destination" is reached via the feedback pot on the cylinder, the valve goes to it's center off position, locking the cylinder in place. Check the pic i posted a couple up in this thread.

Bill Ehrsam.


----------



## spinman1949

*Flow control*

Perhaps I am missing something. 

If you limit the orifice size on the inlet pressure side to the solenoid, aren't you in effect controlling the rate that the cylinder will move? Should be basic fluid dynamics. Pressure / Pipe ID/ = Flow rate. 

I am wondering how a high speed valve might be designed. 

I would like to know how a pneumatic solenoid would respond to AC input with a diode on one side of the circuit. This would mimic how fog machine pumps work. Would the solenoid in effect pulse the cylinder? I presume the very mass involved in the solenoid will dismiss this theory.

Or how about some kind of mechanical rotary valve. A stepper motor could be programmed to rotate back and forth at varying rates. With a cam attached, it could depress a spring loaded valve. Since stepper motors in effect step to specific points in the armature rotation, you could use one motor to control two valves. The motor could have a home position with the cam between two valves. Depending on how fast you want the actuator to travel you step the motor over to the valve. If the valve is designed correctly each step could also increase or decrease the flow rate. 

It seems to me that if you could provide a cylinder with short and precise bursts of air, you could control not only the rate of travel but distance of travel as well. They key of course is being able to control the duration and frequency of the pulses of air.

If the pulses were very short and delivered at high frequency, I think the movement would be very stable and fluid. Even a servo moves in small jumps.


----------



## spinman1949

*Stepper Motor Control Valves*

SMV stepping motor valve : Aalborg, Manufacturer of High Quality Flow Instrumentation

Darn things are expensive and handle high volumes. 28 L of fluid a minute. 

Description is pretty close to what I described. 

I figure a low tech version could be made.


----------



## ShadowmanN

Very nice of you to post this!


----------



## HomeyDaClown

Haven't been here lately but it seems this thread has gone way off the original topic.


----------



## RookieSpooker

HomeyDaClown said:


> Haven't been here lately but it seems this thread has gone way off the original topic.


*
They're still talking about different parts of the same prop, Homey. Just trying to get more natural movements out of certain components. I'm fascinated by the whole thing.*


----------



## spinman1949

*Stepper motors and controls*

I found this site.

Haydon 20841 Linear Stepper Motor | Alltronics

Motors are very inexpensive. I am thinking the linear unit could control a variable orifice valve. Resolution is .001 inch travel per step. Only thing I am not sure of is the unit powerful enough to overcome the pressure. Plenty of travel to contol both sides of a cylinder. 

I am ordering a control board and a couple of the motors. With some effort maybe we can create a hobby level feedback small pneumatic circuit.


----------



## wicc_ed

Ok so should this topic be moved to a new thread for brain storming... perhaps "Pneumatic Animatronic Control"? Then significant progress could be updated to this thread So not to confuse new people building 3axis skulls?


----------



## spinman1949

*Go for it Wick*

You pretty much started this new budget concept, so how about you start a new thread. 

I just went out to my garage and I think I found what may be exactly what we need for a variable orifice valve. Namely it is a slide carb on my nitro engine on my TMAXX. I have an extra engine, so I am gonna pirate the carb and put some pressure to it.

It moves easily, so I figure the linear stepper can move it with great precision.

But regardless, I think a new thread is in order.

OOPS make that WICC 

Sorry


----------



## fearmonger

Nice work! I can't wait to see the finished product. Keep up the good work, you're an inspiration to us all.


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## HalloweenBob

It is done....

The new thread that continues this fascinating discussion on compliance on a budget can be found here:

http://www.halloweenforum.com/halloween-props/75224-advanced-animatronic-controls.html

I am watching it and learning a great deal. Unfortunatley, it is still a bit over my head so I have little to contribute for now.


----------



## agentbud

I have been following this thread for a few months now and have read it from beginning to end. Wow, what an interesting read. Of course I now have the bug to build a couple of these and actually started on one already but took a different approach. I am having some problems so I am most likely going to abandon this idea and move on to the standard axis rod method as described in this forum. The reason for my entry here is this: in reading through this forum I have found many times where an idea is improved upon many times over so even though I did not have much luck with my idea, maybe someone else can improve on it. The reason I tried it this way was because early on in this thread, a few people were complaining about the difficulty getting all the servo linkage straight with the main rod so I tried to think of a way to do 3 axis with just the servos and no linkage. The video below shows what I came up with which is just a typical pan/tilt (like you would use for a camera) with one additional servo attached to give the 3rd axis. The main problem I ran into was that this setup placed all the servos inside the skull vertically so it runs out of room to nod/tilt. That's why in the video I just have the top half of the skull attached. Anyway, like I said this is just in case someone ones to give it a go. I think I'm going to order me a couple of kits from graveyardskulls. Thanks to everone for all the great info. 
Ok, the forum would not let me post a video link since this was my first post so I will try the video again in a second post...


----------



## agentbud

... ok, here is the video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EL1wOxnzOw


----------



## spinman1949

*Nice work !!*

Your design and construction is very good. 

The design I am working on is using a plate mounted on modified heim joint. I intend on controling nod and tilt with u control cable from below through the neck. You can get this cable as thin as thread.

What is really cool is that you solved my rotation problem. I will mount the rotation servo on top of the plate and make a support spider hold the head.

Your mounting the top of the head directly to the rotation servo was a big help.

Thx

As far as your design, I think the experts in this three axis skull design will all tell you that a single plane is key. For instanc in your design, to move the mouth, you would have to mount that servo with the rotation servo. Or at least a mounting bracket would have to be mounted at the point this servo is mounted. 

In my design I will retain the single plane, I am just moving servo's from the skull itself to below. I am also seeing if I can actually bend the neck and thus create a more natural movement. If can do that, then rotation will likely occur the entire neck abd head mounted on rotation table. 

This kind of approach will have limited use due to concealment issues.


----------



## ibjeepin

markgoodson said:


> Ok, here is my new and improved design….


I love your concept to mmic compliance. It gave me more ideas. The winderfull part of usin these is that you can change the silicone fliud viscosity to change the dampening factor too, you can even get larger 1/4 scale one for larger cylingers, but these are not that cheap either. 

My brain is fed and will come up with some ideas!


----------



## HalloweenBob

The problem with the pan/tilt mech design that I can see is that there is more than one pivot point in the skull.

I think that would lead to strange looking motion when the whole skull is used.

For instance when the tilt is used it would be moving from somewhere in the center of the skull kicking out the bottom of the skull that is supposed to be connected to the neck, if that makes any sense.

I played with this exact same idea very early on and was not happy with the way it looked when it moved. Not to say that new ideas shouldn't be explored. We are, in fact re-designing the 3 axis skull ourselves this year. It will be a total redesign.

The method you used would be fine for moving a camera in all those directions for example. It does do all of the axis, but in order to look like a head is really moving there must only be one pivot point.


----------



## agentbud

HalloweenBob said:


> The problem with the pan/tilt mech design that I can see is that there is more than one pivot point in the skull.
> 
> I think that would lead to strange looking motion when the whole skull is used.
> 
> For instance when the tilt is used it would be moving from somewhere in the center of the skull kicking out the bottom of the skull that is supposed to be connected to the neck, if that makes any sense.


I agree. Plus, with the tilt and nod mounted vertically in-line, i had to remove pretty much the whole underside of the skull to try and gain room for the servos when the skull tilted or nodded. I still didn't have enough room - that is why the bottom side of the skull is not attached in the video. It was worth a shot though... 
Since ya'll are re-designing the 3-axis and I believe a read that something will be ready in Feb?, are ya'll planning a sale on the original kits. I pretty much blew my budget trying this method so another $75 per for the kits might put me over! Thanks again for all the input...
Mike


----------



## bradg896

Agentbud, you may not have the room for your design inside a skull, but it looks like it would make for a fantastic talking jack-o-lantern set up. Should have more than enough room for any extra servos too. Might be worth thinking about!


----------



## [email protected]

Agentbud
Did you build the pan setup yourself or is this something I could buy?If you made this do you have any measured drawings with what you used for servos? Or if you abandoden this idea want to sell the unit? I think I have an Idea that would make this work.And maybe a why didn't I think of that!


----------



## HalloweenBob

I believe this is what was used:

Lynx B - Pan and Tilt Kit (Black Anodized)

It was the same kit that I tried using when I first started thinking about this. You can get the 3 axis by combining 2 kits, but it does have the issues mentioned above.

You are right, it might be a great mech for a JOL!


----------



## agentbud

The set up consists of 3 HS-475HB servos and various servo brackets that I picked up at lynxmotion.com.

Specifically I used these brackets:
(QTY 3) ASB-04: Aluminum Multi-Purpose Servo Bracket Two Pack (sold in packs of 2)
(QTY 2) ASB-09: Aluminum "C" Servo Bracket with Ball Bearings Two Pack (sold in packs of 2) - be sure to get this item number as it includes the bearings
(QTY 1) ASB-06: Aluminum "L" Connector Bracket Two Pack (sold in packs of 2) - I used this on the bottom so I could mount the whole assembly to a block of wood.

I built then tore apart and rebuilt the whole thing at least 15 times trying to get the brackets and servos the way I finally felt was best. I'll try to take a few pics of the whole assembly and post them tonight or tomorrow. I had also purchased several other types of brackets and hardware but eventually narrowed it down to just what I listed above.
Mike


----------



## agentbud

Attached are a few pics of the servo/bracket assembly. I hope these are clear enough to show how the brackets are connected. One lesson I learned the hard way - connect all of the brackets together first, then insert and screw on the servos. If you mount the servo in the bracket first you can't access the screw holes to attach the next bracket in line. The pictures of the skull show how I attached the rotate servo to the top of the skull. I had a few metal servo horns and I screwed one to the top section of the skull on the inside. Then all I have to do to attach the assembly is slide the servo gears into the horn and then screw the horn to the servo from the top of the skull (note the larger hole in the middle on the top of the skull).
I had also tried mounting the rotate servo at the bottom of the assembly. When I did it that way, the nod was at the top. I connected it to the skull using one extra C bracket mounted to the top of the nod servo. Let me know if you have any luck...
ps - only 5 pics in this post - the other two will be in the next post


----------



## agentbud

...last three pics...


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## hacksaw42

*Skull*

This is very cool and I have watched for a while.I will keep an eye on this one.


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## Dr Morbius

Using metal servo horns, you can make your own brackets out of angle aluminum. Super cheap, super easy, exact same effect. It's what I used on my groundbreaker.


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## Hauntcast

That doesn't look like a bucky skull, where did you get it?


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## HalloweenBob

Looks like a lindberg to me.


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## agentbud

correct, it was a lindberg


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## SpookySteve

Halloween Bob,
What changes/improvements are you planning on making to the 3-Axis Skull kit? Specifically, are you trying to improve the degree of pan, tilt & nod? I am curious because I am going to buy one of your great kits and was wondering if I should wait for the super cool 2009 version.


----------



## HalloweenBob

Without giving away too much, since it is still in development, the new design solves many of the issues that the original design had. Mainly the issue of the servos all fighting against each other to some degree. This made certain motions or positions hard to achieve with the old design.

Another issue solved is the tendancy over time for the rotate tab mounted on the center rod to work it's way loose.

Also, as was the case with the old design, it will be impossible to turn the head "Too Far". This problem occasionally caused the head to actually turn backwards like Linda Blair in the excorsist. This would happen when the rotate tab was at 90 degrees to either side. Once the servo moves back to position, it was a crap shoot as to which way the linkage would push the tab making it unpredictable.

All in all, the original design was pretty good and most of the issues could be solved in the way the routine was programmed, but this new design will bring this project to a new level.

It will also make the routines much more portable, meaning that any routine written for a skull with the new design will work on any other skull with the new design with no tweaking or adjustments necessary.

I'd tell you more, but then I'd have to kill you.

Bob


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## SpookySteve

Will the new kit be the same price as the current Bucky or Lindberg kit, taking into account the 22% cost increase slated for Feb 1st?


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## SpookySteve

*Alternative to Cat5e*

I found a Cat5e cable alternative. This multi-strand cable will enable you to run 1 cable to a 3-axis skull with jaw and 2 eye servos (6 servos). It is a 12 stranded 22 Awg cable from McMaster Carr. Part #71335K54 $0.42/ft. You have 6 control wires, 2 ground wires and 4 left over for power. It is a bit much for one skull but the only other 22 Awg multi-stranded they listed only had 6 conductors, same as Cat5e. 
Since the wire gage is the same as Cat5e you can put 2-Cat5e connectors on the non-skull end of the cable to connect it to your servo control box, just make sure to label them so that they don't get plugged into the wrong hole.


----------



## HalloweenBob

To answer the price question, yes, it will be more. We don't know exactly how much more yet until the final design gets finalized. The extra cost is all materials. This design uses a few more parts so there is more material cost. 

We are working on quantity buys to keep the cost as low as possible, but some extra cost is unavoidable.


----------



## HalloweenBob

*Teaser....*

Here is a short video of the "Proof Of Concept" prototype I made for the new 3 axis skull design. We had to wait until the patent was in place before releasing any details on this.

The way the motion is set up here, none of the servos fight each other, so there is no problem with 'binding up' when combining certian motions.

The problem of the rotate tab coming loose is also addressed here as well as the possibility of rotating too far in either direction.






Please look for the release of this and more information on graveyardskulls.com in the coming months.


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## danandmeg

Thanks Bob, I have been waiting for this for so long. Thank you for getting the gears turning for me again!


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## gym_ghost

One clarification: patent search was completed a few weeks ago. We have now applied for the patent. Patent awards take a long time. 

Also, this skull is much more complex to build and is going to be costly. How much, we're not sure yet. 

We're in the process of finishing up the final design. More video and pictures will be coming over the next few weeks.

And do to the amount of email; we plan to carry the older version and the new version, with the roll out of a skull we designed. This skull is a mid way between the Lindberg and Bucky.

gym_ghost


----------



## mark_mco

HalloweenBob said:


> Here is a short video of the "Proof Of Concept" prototype I made for the new 3 axis skull design. We had to wait until the patent was in place before releasing any details on this.
> 
> The way the motion is set up here, none of the servos fight each other, so there is no problem with 'binding up' when combining certian motions.
> 
> The problem of the rotate tab coming loose is also addressed here as well as the possibility of rotating too far in either direction.
> Please look for the release of this and more information on graveyardskulls.com in the coming months.


Looks like the video is unavailable. Any idea when it will be up?


----------



## Phoenix

Id be interested in reading the actual patent document, please let us know the patent file number.


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## danandmeg

I can't hit refresh fast enough!!! DAMN YOU YOUTUBE! Thanks for the update Gym, I had great success with the Bucky and your 645 recommendation last Halloween. I was hoping Bob's new design might make my eye rig a little bit easier to rework for 2009.


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## HalloweenBob

Apparently, the video is not yet processed by YouTube. It will be viewable shortly it tells me


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## Evil Bob

Cool Bob! That looks complicated.


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## danandmeg

Well crap, now I have way too many questions that I know you two can't answer yet...can't wait to see photos and hear all about the trials of tribulations of getting there. Must have been a blast getting to that point, congrats Bob!


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## Kammo

WOW.. looks good and works well.. but evilbob is right, looks complicated as all hell...
Good job HB..


----------



## mark_mco

Very nice - looks a lot closer to the movements in the Skulltronix units. Can't wait for the finished product.

Mark


----------



## Mr_Chicken

Wow, Bob, that looks like something out of a sci-fi movie! Quite impressive.
I can't wait for the breakdown!
Does the jaw servo mount in the same place?

EDIT: I watched the video again, and I think I understand how it works, but something tells me you'll need a video tutorial for everyone to understand the assembly.


----------



## Otaku

Cool, very nice movement! Are you using a gear-and-rack system? I know you're not gonna believe this, but I drew up a gear/rack system a few weeks back when I was brainstorming new designs for a 3-axis skull. My concern was keeping the servos from getting in each others way. Great minds, as they say!


----------



## gym_ghost

Yes, the new design uses a gear and rack system. The jaw movement will be simiilar to the one on the older version. Keep in mind, what your seeing here is the older version of the new version. Since early November we have been modifying it and some re-engineering to make it easier to control, build, and troubleshoot. This new design is very complex and alignment is critical. We have come up with SOME MAJOR improvements with how we do the alignment when assembly. Also, we have come up with a new system were we stack the gears on top of each other to bring down the height. 

Regarding the patent information, once it get published, it will be a public record. But at this time, we still have some trade secrets we wish to keep under wrap until we make the kits availlable. Both HalloweenBob and myself (GraveyardSkulls) are going to be somewhat selective of what information will be posted. Reason being we're developing an application where you can use this new axis design and attach a regular halloween mask to make it animatronic to include eye and jaw movement. Also, there will be three types: Lindberg, Bucky, and GYS Skull (one between the Lindberg and Bucky that is our design). 

Again, more information will be posted over the next few weeks. We hope to have the kits available come march. At this time were securing product by buying large quantities. 

Gym-ghost


----------



## gym_ghost

Laughing... Elvis. Funny story - when HalloweenBob built the first one and shipped it out to me to start the modifications and re-engineering, it came to me in pieces and I mean pieces. I think the USPS played hockey with it... it came to us in pieces and I mean pieces. The base plate was broken in two pieces, the upper board cracked and pieces missing... just a real mess... and this was the first built. We had to go back and piece it together as best we could to build the second and third versions. 


I plan to ship it back to HB this week in a small casket - RIP!!!

But I will tell you this for you 3-axis builders - hold off purchasing components!!! You wont be disappointed! 

Joel


----------



## HalloweenBob

Here are some pics:


----------



## Evil Bob

That looks clear and in focus, and complicated. LOL which is not a bad thing.


----------



## spinman1949

*Tbqh*

I am having a bit of a problem seeing the geometry. Look forward to video of movement. Top servo appears to be rotation. Looks very impressive and beefy. I suspect very silky movement.


----------



## Dr Morbius

Interesting design...Quite ingenious, I am impressed!


----------



## Phoenix

I think you misunderstand, if you have already filed for a patent and have been given a 'first date' then that filing is already a public record, and you already have the first stages of protection.

If you don't have a 'first date' then anything that has been publicly disclosed before the first date is deamed to be invalid for patent.


----------



## sledge

Joel or Bob
Will there be an upgrade kit for those of us that have the older kits?


----------



## Evil Bob

sledge said:


> Joel or Bob
> Will there be an upgrade kit for those of us that have the older kits?


lol the servos look like they could be reused. Maybe that "A" support...


----------



## Lynn

Wow, why or why do you keep doing this to me ! I feel pretty satisfied with my 'old 3 axis' and now you go and make me feel like I need another one ! And I wasn't planning on needing another one yet!


----------



## gym_ghost

Phoenix_UK,
Take no offense to this for I'm not disputing what your saying. But the fact is I have hired a law firm that assisted us with the patent search and filing. I take my advice from them for I pay them to give me advice. And will pay them to go after anyone copying this design for a profit. I have no quelms with the average haunter building one for themselves, and both HalloweenBob and I encourge it - but again, not for a profit. This is what this forum is about - to share ideas and have a good time doing it. HalloweenBob holds the patent and I am on it for improvements. The kits we will be selling our not for HIGH GAIN profits. They are there for the average haunter to build something of pride. 

Regarding the patent process, the patent search and filing was done. The attorney told us not to send or post anything about the new design until we hear from them. We held off. 

Monday, they told us we could post and we were protected. 

Regarding public record, I have the filing and the acknowledgement documentation from the patent office and I have no intentions of posting it or sharing it - I do not have too. The patent will be posted in due time, once its awarded. I know for I have several patents in the deep cycle battery industry and PLM applications and it typically takes up to six months to a year to have it posted as a public record. 

Joel


----------



## HalloweenBob

For sledge and evil bob,

The way the kit is at the moment, the servos, the "A" Bracket, the center rod and the rod end are all the same.

This might change as we streamline the design, so I can't say for sure, but all those parts could be re-used.

Putting these together is a bit more complicated than the old design, so that is a problem to overcome for offering a kit. A lot of the kit will probably be pre-fab for that reason.

That might cause an issue with reusing parts.

We will work something out, I am sure.


----------



## gym_ghost

evil bob,
Our goal was to use as much as the hardware on the original design for this one. Servos, axis rod, and axis bracket can be used. This will save the user a lot of money that want to upgrade. And yes, we will offer an upgrade kit soon. What is different is the rack and gear, the plates and mounting techniques. And as HalloweenBob mentioned before, you do not have to go back and tweek your programs as you had to do with the older version.


----------



## Phoenix

gym_ghost said:


> Phoenix_UK,
> Take no offense to this for I'm not disputing what your saying. But the fact is I have hired a law firm that assisted us with the patent search and filing. I take my advice from them for I pay them to give me advice. And will pay them to go after anyone copying this design for a profit. I have no quelms with the average haunter building one for themselves, and both HalloweenBob and I encourge it - but again, not for a profit. This is what this forum is about - to share ideas and have a good time doing it. HalloweenBob holds the patent and I am on it for improvements. The kits we will be selling our not for HIGH GAIN profits. They are there for the average haunter to build something of pride.
> 
> Regarding the patent process, the patent search and filing was done. The attorney told us not to send or post anything about the new design until we hear from them. We held off.
> 
> Monday, they told us we could post and we were protected.
> 
> Regarding public record, I have the filing and the acknowledgement documentation from the patent office and I have no intentions of posting it or sharing it - I do not have too. The patent will be posted in due time, once its awarded. I know for I have several patents in the deep cycle battery industry and PLM applications and it typically takes up to six months to a year to have it posted as a public record.
> 
> Joel



OK so to clarify, its not that what I said is incorrect and its not that you are following your lawyers advice to not tell since he has told you that you are now free to disclose, its just that you chose to not let anyone know the details.

That's not a problem, Ill get the information myself, just thought you could save me a little time.


----------



## [email protected]

I was looking a the video andmy question is what does the front servo with the "rack"gearing run?I'm guessing that the top servo turns the head and the side tilts,so if the front nods?is the some linkage that isn't shown?


----------



## gym_ghost

I want to expand on what HalloweenBob mentioned about assembly, especially with the alignment. Our original idea was to have a plate formed from a mold. The problem was we were getting tolerances of +/-.035 on the rack mound holes and ledges. This was not acceptable and when the gear is running over the rack, it could start to not catch and wear our prematurely. We then decided to go with machining the plate from 1/2" acrylic blanks. This was very costly and messy. So we decided to go with 1/4" cast acrylic plate and then to glue on the rack ledge. The first four we did not line up the ledge piece accurately and after about an hour of running it, we notice premature wear and gear wear - and in two cases, the gear jumped track - not good. We went back and found out we must have the gear aligned to the rack within .010 at the center of the rack. In order to achieve accurate alignment, we designed a fixture were the plate was laid in it and then a bar comes down with a cut out where we lay the glue down on the plate and then the ledge piece is laid into the cut off. Accuracy with this fixture is +/- .002. How important is this alignment, critical. So as you can see, we have mastered the means for alignment, but for those folks attempting to do this on your own… watch that alignment carefully.

I will post pictures of all of this over the next couple of days!!!


Joel


----------



## Toetag

I find it kinda interesting how you got your patent so fast b/c i have heard it takes a average of 22 months. Have any tips for speeding up the process?


----------



## gym_ghost

Phoenix_UK, 
Somewhat accurate... we plan to share our idea here and on our website. Heck, I will even post drawings if someone wants them (in due time). The patent was procured to keep it in our control and to prevent others from selling it. Nothing secret... just protecting our interest for WE have already spent $12,000 on this new design. 

Toetag, patent has not been awarded. Just filed and acknowledged. On those other patents, they came from big companies with deep pockets. I too was amazed. I would not be surprised we get our certification sometime in late 2010 for this. 

Joel


----------



## Phoenix

gym_ghost said:


> Phoenix_UK,
> Somewhat accurate... we plan to share our idea here and on our website. Heck, I will even post drawings if someone wants them (in due time). The patent was procured to keep it in our control and to prevent others from selling it. Nothing secret... just protecting our interest for WE have already spent $12,000 on this new design.
> 
> Toetag, patent has not been awarded. Just filed and acknowledged. On those other patents, they came from big companies with deep pockets. I too was amazed. I would not be surprised we get our certification sometime in late 2010 for this.
> 
> Joel


No problem, like I said, its easy to search US patent applications as the US patent office is one of the best in the world for publishing the information on-line.

Meanwhile if anyone else wants to look up the patent application you will want this website, its the Patents application list for the US patent office and its current as of 22nd January 2009, so it should not be much longer before it appears.

US Published Application Full-Text Database Boolean Search


----------



## [email protected]

gym_ghost said:


> I want to expand on what HalloweenBob mentioned about assembly, especially with the alignment. Our original idea was to have a plate formed from a mold. The problem was we were getting tolerances of +/-.035 on the rack mound holes and ledges. This was not acceptable and when the gear is running over the rack, it could start to not catch and wear our prematurely. We then decided to go with machining the plate from 1/2" acrylic blanks. This was very costly and messy. So we decided to go with 1/4" cast acrylic plate and then to glue on the rack ledge. The first four we did not line up the ledge piece accurately and after about an hour of running it, we notice premature wear and gear wear - and in two cases, the gear jumped track - not good. We went back and found out we must have the gear aligned to the rack within .010 at the center of the rack. In order to achieve accurate alignment, we designed a fixture were the plate was laid in it and then a bar comes down with a cut out where we lay the glue down on the plate and then the ledge piece is laid into the cut off. Accuracy with this fixture is +/- .002. How important is this alignment, critical. So as you can see, we have mastered the means for alignment, but for those folks attempting to do this on your own… watch that alignment carefully.
> 
> I will post pictures of all of this over the next couple of days!!!
> 
> 
> Joel


I'm not an engineer, but a thought:without seeing it clearly and I don't know the cost but couldn't a CNC machine cut the shapes you need then maybe cut a slot and place the gear "rack"in it?seems like it would always be in spec. that way?if that even is what your referring to.Another thought too is acrylic blanks Have you ever checked to see if the blanks are the same thickness at all points?If you need those kinda specs I'm not sure that a poured extrusion plastic would have that with out machining.Just thoughts that may have you scratching your head on why or there must be a better way. If it works you can use it free(prototype would be excepted)LOL


----------



## gym_ghost

Regarding patents... I have seen them take up to 8 months before anything is posted. And in some cases, not at all.

In 2005 I worked on a project were i came up with a new design for venting gases and watering of a deep cycle battery . We applied at both the international and US Patent office Jan 06. I received my patent award and certification back in late Sept 2008 from the US Patent office but yet nothing is posted on the US Patent Site. But yet it was posted on the international site for patents;


(WO/2007/084685) HINGED BATTERY VENT CAP AND RELATED GANGED VENT ASSEMBLY

Someone told me if it gets disputed or paper work is not accurate, it can take years for it to be posted. I heard this is the case for this one... but yet, I got the patent and its posted on the Internation Side. 

Strange... and enough about patents... (who would every think we would be talking about patent for Halloween Props)...

Joel


----------



## gym_ghost

James,
We would have to machine it from 1/2 blanks which we did... but its very costly and very messing. Almost half of the blank needs to be machined away to leave the ledge which is only about 3" long, 1/4" wide and 1/4" high. We could get better molding, but at what cost? I figure if we sell 500 of these things, 1/4" plate, glue on the ledge, not a big issue. You might want to apply for a patent on that idea though ;-)

Joel


----------



## Phoenix

[email protected] said:


> I'm not an engineer, but a thought:without seeing it clearly and I don't know the cost but couldn't a CNC machine cut the shapes you need then maybe cut a slot and place the gear "rack"in it?seems like it would always be in spec. that way?if that even is what your referring to.Another thought too is acrylic blanks Have you ever checked to see if the blanks are the same thickness at all points?If you need those kinda specs I'm not sure that a poured extrusion plastic would have that with out machining.Just thoughts that may have you scratching your head on why or there must be a better way. If it works you can use it free(prototype would be excepted)LOL



Acrylic sheets are not poured they are rolled in a calendar and they have extremely tight thickness tolerances.


----------



## heresjohnny

I'd be interested in the filing date, and what is being patented. I have seen mention of using gears and a rack and pinion for a 3-axis skull elsewhere.

BTW I have 3 patents, all filed the same day, and one was awarded each year for the next 3 years, so it does take a while. I didn't pay much attention to the process, but I remember the key was in the claims made in the patent. 

Oh, and cool design, well contained and it looks like it will last a while.


----------



## Lynn

Well, I for one am just so happy that you are sharing your designs. Most people would not do this and I say Hooray for you! Enabling the rest of us that probably couldnt aford to buy one premade, to try our hand at making one ourself! Good for you Joel and Bob!


----------



## Mr_Chicken

gym_ghost said:


> But I will tell you this for you 3-axis builders - hold off purchasing components!!! You won't be disappointed!l


Joel, does this include waiting to purchase the old kits (for those of us who may not be ready for the new expense/complications)?


----------



## gym_ghost

The old kits are available right now. Although I am behind on shipping (which is being corrected now), they are available. What I am referring to is trying to secure better pricing on servos and the connectors. We're almost there and hope to have it all wrapped up in Feb. 2009.
Joel


----------



## Deathly

Looks like plain ol good engineering to me. Forcing movements at 90 degrees to eliminate interactions by using racks and pinions (most efficient way) to get there. 

I think the guys at Disney have a few patents out there on Three Axis movements as well.
It will be interesting to see how this all comes together.


----------



## HalloweenBob

*The eyes have it!*

The new design will be unveiled later this week and I will post pictures here.

Right now I have some pictures of the new 2 axis, 3 color eye kits. Actually, it's MUCH more than 3 colors. We are using tri-color LEDs, but you can produce almost any color by mixing different combinations of those 3 colors.

These kits will run with VSA and we will be producing a controller board for the eye color and dimming control that will also run off VSA.

Here are some preliminary shots of what the eye kit looks like both mounted in and out of the skull.










The above picture shows the range of motion for the eyes both up and to the left.

The next picture shows the eyes centered:










This one shows them looking to the right:










You get the idea.

Here is what the kit looks like outside of the skull:










In the picture above, you see that it is mounted to the underside of the skullplate.

The next picture shows the unit as you look it in the eyes:











These pictures do not show the servos attached. I will have more pictures to post later that show all that. They also do not show the tri color LEDs that will be mounted in each eye kit.

Here is a picture of how the LED will mount into the tube that runs to the center of the eye:










The big news is that these are currently in production and will be for sale in the store starting this coming Monday (June 22nd, 2009)!!

Thanks for your patience.


Bob


----------



## Evil Bob

Nice pics! Much more satisfying than "Oh, the cat's eaten it!"
I can't wait to see it in motion!


----------



## MonkeyBasic

Very nice. I'm looking forward to it!!!!


----------



## dionicia

Wow. You guys have been busy. I'm getting eager to upgrade my skulls now. I wonder if there is a quieter servo as the servos on the video sounds a bit loud. I know the noise will be reduced in the skull and when sound is added it will be further reduced but it would be nice for a servo that is not so loud. Any suggestions?


----------



## HalloweenBob

If you are talking about the video of the new design that was posted a while ago, the finished product will not be that loud.

The main reason that one sounded so loud was because of my laptop. When recording, it has an automatic Gain control on it and it is always trying to raise the volume of whatever sound there is in the room to the same level. Since there was no other sound but the servos going, it boosted that sound.


----------



## shadowopal

HalloweenBob said:


> The new design will be unveiled later this week and I will post pictures here.
> 
> Right now I have some pictures of the new 2 axis, 3 color eye kits. Actually, it's MUCH more than 3 colors. We are using tri-color LEDs, but you can produce almost any color by mixing different combinations of those 3 colors.
> 
> These kits will run with VSA and we will be producing a controller board for the eye color and dimming control that will also run off VSA.
> 
> The big news is that these are currently in production and will be for sale in the store starting this coming Monday (June 22nd, 2009)!!
> 
> Thanks for your patience.
> 
> 
> Bob


Hey Bob! Nice work. How will you be selling thes? Will the eye sets be available seperately or will I need to buy the whole skull kit? Also, when do you expect to have the eye controller available?


----------



## ScaryTinker

The wiring for the eye looks like you are using a RGB (controllable color) LED. If they are RGB, how will color change management be handled? 

BTW - Those are darn cool!

SteveC / ScaryTinker


----------



## HalloweenBob

We will be selling these kits separately, so you can add them to skull kits you already have. There will also be eye kits for both the GYS and Lindberg skulls. They are not interchangable due to the size and shape of the inside of the different skulls.

As for controlling the LEDs, we have a working prototype of a controller board that will work with VSA to control the LEDs. It will turn them on or off, dim them, and create almost any color you want. It will be a few more weeks before we can get that from a prototype to production, but it is coming.


----------



## dyceskynes

Since these eye kits are going to be released soon does that mean the back orders are going to be shipped out too?


----------



## HalloweenBob

Yes, it does. The back orders will start going out on Monday.


----------



## dyceskynes

Awesome! Thanks guys.


----------



## HomeyDaClown

HalloweenBob said:


> Yes, it does. The back orders will start going out on Monday.


??? 

"Re: 2 axis eyes Yes, they are on-track to start shipping next week (the week of June 15th through the 19th)"


I was hoping back orders would be filled this week now we have to wait another week? I'm confused


----------



## Mr_Chicken

HomeyDaClown said:


> ???
> 
> "Re: 2 axis eyes Yes, they are on-track to start shipping next week (the week of June 15th through the 19th)"
> 
> 
> I was hoping back orders would be filled this week now we have to wait another week? I'm confused


Yeah, what? I thought I was going to get it a month ago, then this week... now next week?
I understand it's taking longer than initially expected, but are all the preorders officially pushed back again?


----------



## HalloweenBob

All the preorders are first on the list to go out. With the last minute changes and improvements, things just took longer than expected.

You won't be dissapointed with the product.


----------



## Mr_Chicken

HalloweenBob said:


> All the preorders are first on the list to go out. With the last minute changes and improvements, things just took longer than expected.
> 
> You won't be dissapointed with the product.


I'm very much looking forward to it. Looks like a good design...can't wait to see it with servos!


----------



## gym_ghost

I can understand your fustration and let me ensure you, those that paid will get their eye kits first. Because of the amount of request about how to add lights, we decided to go ahead and include them. What we thought would be some quick engineering, well, it turned out we had to change the ball joint, the ball joint ring, and then figure out how to remount the servos. Days turned into weeks, and then evetually into a month. But it was well worth. Video is coming shortly.

Joel


----------



## mark_mco

Looks very nice guys. I have a few questions.
1. When will you make the eye kits available again on your web site for ordering? 
2. Are the LED's you are using commom anode or cathode?
3. Do you have a rough estimate on the price of the LED controller board?

Thanks,

Mark


----------



## Mr_Chicken

A few questions, now that I've been looking at it for a while...

Do all the kits have brown eyes? Can the color be changed as with these?

Does there have to be such a large gap around the eyeball in the socket?

Will you include complete assembly instructions for both the GYS and the Lindberg?

Is there a difference between the GYS and the Lindberg eye kits?

How much will we need to put together (ie: is the lexan appendage pre-attached to the new plates)?


----------



## shadowopal

HalloweenBob said:


> We will be selling these kits separately, so you can add them to skull kits you already have. There will also be eye kits for both the GYS and Lindberg skulls. They are not interchangable due to the size and shape of the inside of the different skulls.
> 
> As for controlling the LEDs, we have a working prototype of a controller board that will work with VSA to control the LEDs. It will turn them on or off, dim them, and create almost any color you want. It will be a few more weeks before we can get that from a prototype to production, but it is coming.


Sounds great Bob. I'll be watching for it. Thanks for all the ahrd work you and (I assume) your team have put into this project. It's much appreciated.


----------



## HalloweenBob

To answer some questions:

1. Eye kits will be available for ordering on the website store this Monday, June 22nd, 2009

2. LEDs are common anode

3. We do not yet have an estimate on the price of the controller board. We do have a working prototype, but have not sent the design out yet to be priced out. That will be done very soon. We will keep the cost down as much as possible.


4. The kits do all have the same color eyes (brown) but Joel will have to chime in here to tell you if that can easily be changed. My guess is that it can be since the iris part does pop out of the eye. The LEDs behind those will change the precieved color of the eyes, however.

5. The gap around the eyes is a lot less noticeable when you don't have light coming in from behind. Once the skullcap is on, the gap is really not that noticeable. The light from the LEDs comes from within the eye, so that does not light up the inside of the skull and therefore does not create light that shines through that gap.

6. Yes, we will include complete assembly instructions either with the kit or on the website or both.

7. There are a couple of small differences between the GYS and the lindberg eye kits due to the space inside and shape of the skulls, so eye kits will be specific for each type of skull.

8. The kits will come two ways. As an add on to an existing skull, or attached to the skullplate if you buy the skull with the eyekit at the same time. For people adding the kit on later, we will provide a paper "Template" that will give you the exact placement of the kit on the skullplate which you can either glue in place, or drill holes, tap them and screw it in. If you buy it together with a new skull, the kit will come attached.

Thank you all for the input here and for the compliments. For the eye kits, all the praise goes to Joel and the team who really did all the design and work.


Bob


----------



## gym_ghost

Iris; we are working with the supplier on the eye and having different color iris. We got some estimates, but have yet to order them. We want to get the eye kits out there now! Halloween is just around the corner. Now trying to replace the eye piece from the kit; impossible. The eyes are machined to allow a ball joint to snap into place. From there, we install a retainer ringer with an arm that attaches to the servo arm link that controls the movement of the eye. Presently, I have 600 brown eyes in stock.

With regard to the cut out of the eye - what Bob said was dead on. Once the light is off, and the skull cap installed, you wont notice the different. In fact, the LED gives it a very ominous glow. But for those decided to build their own, you will be removing alot of material from the eye socket and inside the skull. 

These next few days I plan to document and picture each step of how to assembly and install your eye kit. Bob will get these instructions up next week.

NOW I WANT TO STRESS; all current orders are going out first. We plan to solely concentrate on them. They should all be out early next week and this will include those that want complete skulls. 

July 18, 2009 I will be holding a work party at my place of business in San Bernardino. This work party will be how to assemble the "classic" 3 axis skull, and how to build the "new" 3 axis skull. Additionally, we will be going over how to install the eye kits and spend about an hour on some neat tricks you can do with both versions of the skulls. This will only be open to those that have purchased 3 axis skulls from GYS. Donations do not count. It will be limited to 20 people (already 12 slots have been filled). Now for the good news; the cost will be free. You will only pay for the materials you use. Also, we will be showing off some of our other props and animatronics in development which include the gesture hand, the wire loom ghost, and terrible casket demon (this one still freaks me out.) We will go into some details of how they were made. 

Joel Briggs


----------



## Specter

Wow- a lot has changed with this design! Looks more solid, but also more complicated! I don't see a price on the site for a kit- how much are they?


----------



## shadowopal

Very excited to see one of these in person Joel and Bob. Then looking at colors for iris' could I make a suggestion? How about clear and have the whites of the eyes and pupils painted? Or the whole thing slear and let us work it out? Our halloween group was working on eyes for this thing and that's one of the directions we were going in. but, if you guys can pull that off? We'll just pay you for your time . I know getting it before Halloween is difficult. But, since you'r haggling anyway.


----------



## HalloweenBob

That is something to look into. Right now we are focusing on getting these that we have out. After the rush is done and we have some time to play around, there will be some revisions made (Doubtful in time for this Halloween) which will include either color choices for the iris, or some method as you suggest for the user to add a color. 

Just remember that the light from the LEDs must shine through this. It can't be completly clear because we want to diffuse the light somewhat so we don't get a sharp hotspot from the LED. We will work more on those other angles after we get a working model out there.

I'm sure that once people get their kits and start using them, we will have many other suggestions for improvements and modifications then.


----------



## gym_ghost

DOH... that is great idea. I could machine the iris from clear acrylic and include it in the kit as a blank for those that want to color it. In fact, I will look into this this morning.

Joel


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## HalloweenBob

It should be a slightly frosted acrylic so as to diffuse the light from the LED as I mentioned above, unless whatever people decide to use as color will act as the diffusion for the LEDs.

Maybe just lightly sand the back side of the iris with very fine sandpaper or something to make it slightly opaque.


----------



## Specter

How much are the kits?

Also- will you sell the eye mech separately?


----------



## HalloweenBob

I believe that the eye kits will be between $65 and $75. Joel - Please confirm this.

They will be available both separately and as part of a total skull kit


----------



## Specter

ok cool. Are they 2 directions? Ie- up/down and left/right?

Also- how much is the entire 3-axis kit? Again, sorry for the questions, but there's no price on the site.


----------



## HalloweenBob

Yes, they are two axis as you describe.

I'm not sure what the new kit package that includes the eyes will be priced at. It will probably be pretty much the price of a current kit plus the price of an eye kit. Combining the two will probably cost slightly less then the two separate, but we will work that out by Monday.


----------



## Specter

LOL! ok, How much is the kit currently, WITHOUT the eyes? I want the Lindberg and entire kit, no eyes.
Thanks


----------



## HalloweenBob

Prices on kits are in the store. Here is a link to the page with Lindberg kits:

Graveyard Skulls :: OnLine Store :: Comersus

There are two kits with different prices. One is truley a kit which you assemble yourself, and the other is fully assembled.

The new '09 3 axis design is not listed there yet, but will be starting next week.


----------



## shadowopal

gym_ghost said:


> DOH... that is great idea. I could machine the iris from clear acrylic and include it in the kit as a blank for those that want to color it. In fact, I will look into this this morning.
> 
> Joel


That's what we were thinking. That way people could have whatever color they wanted. Juts need to tweak the LED color combos. That option should simplify your world a bit too I would think. But, you have to get past the design hurdle of the diffusion.

I agree with Bob on the diffusion method. It shouldn't be crystal clear. Just mostly clear. Sanding the back of the lense may be enough. If you guys get this worked out, you'll have a tight product. Very impressed guys. Now just work out how I can have flourescent glowing eyes .


----------



## Specter

ok. Yeah, it wasn't up there before- just said $0.00. Can you tell me what the price is for the new version?


----------



## dadgonemad

Very exciting to see these finished. Nice work guys.

Question on the prototype control board for the LEDs: Will this connect to the SSC-32, or will it require its own connection to the control PC? 

Congrats on finishing another sweet product! When will the video be online?

-DGM


----------



## Evil Bob

"Soon" lol


----------



## Mr_Chicken

HalloweenBob said:


> It should be a slightly frosted acrylic so as to diffuse the light from the LED as I mentioned above, unless whatever people decide to use as color will act as the diffusion for the LEDs.
> 
> Maybe just lightly sand the back side of the iris with very fine sandpaper or something to make it slightly opaque.


I disagree. I think it's best to provide a completely clear iris and let the user decide whether to frost it with sandpaper or insert a paper iris in between or paint an iris on it directly. Not everyone will be using the LEDs all the time.


----------



## sledge

Hi
Joel and Bob
I am a bit confused (normal for me) When are the new skull kits going to be available? Can they be preordered?


----------



## HalloweenBob

The new skull kits (that is, the new '09 design) will be avilable starting this Monday as well. I am waiting to get some pictures, then I will post them here, hopefully later today.

No need for pre-orders, they are ready for production and we will be taking orders starting next week.

Don't worry, more details are coming.


----------



## Specter

What's the advantages of the new design over the old? Why did it need to be re-engineered?


----------



## HalloweenBob

Each design has it's advantages. 

The old design is simple and uses very few parts. It is cost effective, easy to assemble and is somewhat forgiving as far as alignment issues. It also has some faults.

There are some positions that you just can't get the skull to move in. Certain combinations of servo movements "Bind up" because the servos fight each other when trying to achieve two or more axis movements at the same time. Exactly what these positions are differ from skull to skull depending on servo tolerances, alignment, minimum and maximum settings, etc.

The new design completely eliminates all those problems. It is more complicated, has more parts and requires more critical alignment, but because each servo rides on a plate which is being moved by another servo, they never fight each other and can never bind up in any position.

Another issue is the rotate tab. Over time this tab on the old design can loosen up causing the skull not to respond to rotate commands. This is also eliminated in the new design.

The old design does not give you pure lateral motion for nod or tilt. It does rotate OK. What I mean is there is an arc in the motion due to the servo arm pushing the rod. If you tell it to nod straight up or down using just the nod servo in the old design, you will see some rotate motion mixed in. This is because the servo arm moves on a curve. the same with the tilt servo. The new design does use lateral motion to move these servos, so this is also eliminated.

The other issue, which is a major one is portability of routines. With the old design, there are lots of variables when you put it together. The length of the linkages, the centering of all the servos before you mount them. Which servo arms you use and which holes in those servo arms that you use all add together to give you variations from skull to skull. In all my routines so far, I have had a different set of minimum, maximum and default values for each axis on each skull. Because of the way the new design is laid out, every axis on every skull can have the same default values. The minimum and maximum values will be determined by how much range of motion the skull has, so all tilt servos for all skulls using this design will have the same min. and max. settings as will all rotate servos and all nod servos. They will be constants for every skull. This means that if you use a routine that was programmed for one skull with the new design, it is 100% plug and ply in another new design skull. With the old design, you have to make adjustments to every servo in the routine to match the values for your individual skull. Not a big problem for a single skull, but when you get into 4 or more skulls, it becomes time consuming!

I hope that answers your question well enough.


----------



## Specter

Awesome. How much is the new design going to cost?


----------



## HalloweenBob

We will have the pricing for all the variations of kits worked out on Saturday.


----------



## Lynn

I cant wait.... I will deffinitely be getting the eye mechanism ! I made one for my skull but it just isnt that great! Whoo hoo.... this is gonna be great!


----------



## Iseedeadpeople

Am I missing something here?

It is now Tuesday and it appears nothing has been updated yet.


----------



## HalloweenBob

*Apologies.....*

Sorry to have gotten everyone's hopes up (Including mine) only to come up with dust on the promised day.

It appears that in our excitement, we misjudged just how long it would take us for these new product launches.

They are really coming, and soon. I will let Joel chime in here with all the details since he is the one working on it "Hands On" out in California, and I am out here in Vermont where I can't see what's going on.


Joel?.....


----------



## gym_ghost

First, I want to apologize for the delays. I have posted a response here;

Graveyardskulls - View topic - Delays - eye kit and new 3-aixs kit

Joel Briggs
Owner of Graveyardskulls.com


----------



## Specter

LOL- I think you'll be manufacturing your own skulls here in the next few months...


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## sledge

So if I have this right none of the eye kits that were paid for already have been mailed? .... and you only have four tested that work ok??


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## gym_ghost

Sledge,
Yes, but were filling those orders now. To comp for the delay, were including the multicolor LED at no cost. This is a $34 item. For those that dont want it, we will be offering a partial refund. Only for thos past due orders.

JOel


----------



## Mr_Chicken

I assume you mean you're including the multicolor LED controller board (?)...a tri-color LED costs $3, max.


----------



## spinman1949

*Fix your link please.*

Minor issue considering all the great stuff your working on, but like a baffoon I keep clicking on your link graveyardmadness.com.....Uhhhhh ?????


----------



## HalloweenBob

Eye kits are now in the store!

Here are some better pictures:





























And, a video of the eyes moving from YouTube:

YouTube - Graveyardskulls.com 2 axis eye kit


We will have more video and pictures which will include the LEDs working soon.

You can find the eye kits in the store now here:

Graveyard Skulls :: OnLine Store :: Comersus

Thanks for your patience!!!


----------



## Lynn

HB, is this kit for the Lindberg or the Bucky ? And, do you think it would work with my skull ? I made one from scratch with your instructions.... its not one of the graveyardskulls kits.


----------



## HalloweenBob

This kit is designed to work with either the Lindberg or the "GYS Skull" which is a lighter version of the bucky skull.

It should also work fine with a bucky skull, but you need to understand that if you are going to add this into an existing skull, you will need to remove quite a bit of material from the inside of the skull as well as cut out the eye sockets.

Alignment and the size of the eye holes are important.

We are offering to do the modifications and mount the eye kit for you for a cost of $20.00 plus shipping and handling if you want to send your skull in for us to modify.

The skull you made should be fine since this will work with my original design. If you followed that pretty closely and you didn't mount anything in the way of that space, you should be fine.

We have a process down that takes a minimum amount of time to make these modifications and to mount the eye kit precisely on the skull plate, but this proceedure is designed for skullplates and skulls that we designed and are familiar with. If your skull varies significantly from our design, it will take more time to do the modification and will cost a bit more.


----------



## HalloweenBob

To answer Mr. Chicken's question:

No that was not a mistake. The controller cards are still in development and need to be produced. They are a little bit away before we can sell them. You can still use the LEDs by switching between the colors with relays or just having them on a constant color. As soon as the controller boards are ready, they will be added to the store.

The reason that adding the LEDs seems so pricey is due to the following:

It's not just the cost of the LEDs. They have to have their leads extended and a resistor soldered to one of the leads. That is a special process had to be done because soldering all the leads by hand and adding shrink tubing made the leads too thick to pass through the tubing we are using for the eyes. There isn't a lot of space in there, so everything needs to be as small as possible.

So the breakdown PER LED is as follows:


$1.00 per LED

$5 for wiring connection to LED

$2 for tube insert

5 minutes per each eye to custom fit LED into ball joint ($3)

6 minutes to connect wire connector plug and are time to solder ($4)



TOTAL $15 per eye, X 2.

That adds $30.00 just in direct costs to the kit to include 2 one dollar LEDs.

I hope that explains the pricing difference. 


We just need to cover our costs.


----------



## Iseedeadpeople

Do the eyes look down as well? I don't see that in the video only up left right and middle.


----------



## HalloweenBob

Yes, they do look down. This video doesn't show it as well as it should.

They are looking down somewhat at about 13 seconds into the video.

They do better than that. We will have a new video up soon that will show they eyes with the LEDs. We will make sure we get better motion in that video.


----------



## Lynn

OK.... Bob, thanks. I made an eye mech.. for my skull so I have already removed a lot of material from my Lindberg skull, so thats not an issue as much as... I hope I havent removed toooooo much material ?? I don't care much for my eye movement so I may give yours a shot.
I just gotta decide if it will work with my skull or not, I did remove a lot of material.


----------



## HalloweenBob

It will work. You can't remove too much material, so don't worry about that. It connects to the skullplate and does not use any material in the skull at all.

The only issue might be what size the eye holes are. If they are too small, you can make them bigger. It's hard to make them smaller if they are too large.

Good news is, Lindberg skulls are cheap, so you can always get another one and start over.


----------



## Mr_Chicken

Fair enough, Bob. Thanks for clarifying.

So, if we choose to cut out the sockets ourself, how will we know where/how much to cut? Is there a template included?


----------



## Rev. Noch

Will the current eye kits work with the new skull design coming out? I really think that I would like to order one of those and I already have an eye kit on the way.

Is it definite that the eye kits with have the clear iris? That's exactly the look that I was wanting, a black pupil with a clear iris for the LEDs.


----------



## HalloweenBob

Yes, we will either be providing the needed templates with the kits or on the website. (to answer Mr. Chicken)

and yes, the current eye kits will absolutely work with the new design for the 3 axis skull. The next video we put up should show the eye kit with a new design skull all working.

We are still working on offering non-colored irises (Is that spelled right?). As of now, they have the brown iris in them, but the colors from the LEDs do shine right through.


----------



## Skeletons in my closet

HB,

I'm excited to see the new designs. I was hoping to get back into this with one of the new skulls. I noticed, though, that the price is jumping up quite a bit (from $240 for the old, to $450 for the new version Lindberg). Is the new design a lot better for reliability and wear? Or are the servos stronger? What are all the benefits of the new design over the old? I've tried to keep up with this thread and look back over many, many pages for review, but didn't see a list of the new features/upgrades. Sorry if you've posted already and I missed it...

While waiting for your answer, I better start saving up some more cash!  I definitely was planning on getting a skull and eye kit.

thanks!


----------



## HalloweenBob

I posted this a few pages ago, but in this mammouth thread, a post is easy to miss. The following explains some of the advantages of the new design over the "Classic" design:


Each design has it's advantages. 

The old design is simple and uses very few parts. It is cost effective, easy to assemble and is somewhat forgiving as far as alignment issues. It also has some faults.

There are some positions that you just can't get the skull to move in. Certain combinations of servo movements "Bind up" because the servos fight each other when trying to achieve two or more axis movements at the same time. Exactly what these positions are differ from skull to skull depending on servo tolerances, alignment, minimum and maximum settings, etc.

The new design completely eliminates all those problems. It is more complicated, has more parts and requires more critical alignment, but because each servo rides on a plate which is being moved by another servo, they never fight each other and can never bind up in any position.

Another issue is the rotate tab. Over time this tab on the old design can loosen up causing the skull not to respond to rotate commands. This is also eliminated in the new design.

The old design does not give you pure lateral motion for nod or tilt. It does rotate OK. What I mean is there is an arc in the motion due to the servo arm pushing the rod. If you tell it to nod straight up or down using just the nod servo in the old design, you will see some rotate motion mixed in. This is because the servo arm moves on a curve. the same with the tilt servo. The new design does use lateral motion to move these servos, so this is also eliminated.

The other issue, which is a major one is portability of routines. With the old design, there are lots of variables when you put it together. The length of the linkages, the centering of all the servos before you mount them. Which servo arms you use and which holes in those servo arms that you use all add together to give you variations from skull to skull. In all my routines so far, I have had a different set of minimum, maximum and default values for each axis on each skull. Because of the way the new design is laid out, every axis on every skull can have the same default values. The minimum and maximum values will be determined by how much range of motion the skull has, so all tilt servos for all skulls using this design will have the same min. and max. settings as will all rotate servos and all nod servos. They will be constants for every skull. This means that if you use a routine that was programmed for one skull with the new design, it is 100% plug and play in another new design skull. With the old design, you have to make adjustments to every servo in the routine to match the values for your individual skull. Not a big problem for a single skull, but when you get into 4 or more skulls, it becomes time consuming!

I hope that answers your question well enough. 

I expect to have exact pricing on the new design within the next few days. I will post it here when I do. The new design has many more parts than the old design did, so tooling, assembly and simply the fact that there are more parts, ball bearings, gears and the like add to the cost.

There is good news, however....

This package was only going to be sold assembled because of the many layers of critical alignment that is necessary for proper function.

But just in the last week, we were able to deveop a way to make it in kit form. By making a few minor changes, we have made a way that the end user can assemble this as a kit without danger of misalignment.

Because of this, we can now also offer the new design in kit form which will remove the labor part for assembly on our end and make the package cheaper if you buy the kit.

So hang in there a couple more days and see what we have come up with! I think you'll like it.


----------



## Skeletons in my closet

HB,

I was afraid I may have missed the info somewhere.  Sorry for the extra work to repeat yourself. I did see bits of that info here and there, and if nothing else, it's nice to see it all composed together here and summarized. Thanks for taking the time. 

The improvements sound fantastic! Especially the portability!! With so many getting into this now, that feature alone should open up a large community of sharing routines with each other. We haunters put a lot of love and pride into our projects, and to be able to now share them with even more haunters around the country is great! It's one thing to show off your finished project, but to be able to trade and share them should open the flood gates! 

Nice work! I can't wait to see them in action (and get my hands on one)!!!

thanks again!


----------



## Evil Bob

Have any kits been shipped yet? I haven't received any email notifications.



HalloweenBob said:


> Yes, it does. The back orders will start going out on Monday.


----------



## Iseedeadpeople

Has anyone received an eye kit yet? How easy is it to install an, how long does it take and mostly how well does it work? I'm thinking about ordering but I want to be sure before I spend the money and it seems like there were issues yet to be resolved. I need to finish up my skulls pretty quick so I need to know or I'll just have to go the roll-on ball route instead.


----------



## HalloweenBob

All the issues have now finally been resolved.

Don't give up yet. This is a whole different league from roll-on balls. 

You won't be dissapointed.


Please go here for more details:

Graveyardskulls - View topic - 2 axis eyes

look for the post that says, "EYE KIT UPDATE: JUNE 29, 2009"


----------



## Dr Morbius

HalloweenBob said:


> All the issues have now finally been resolved.
> 
> Don't give up yet. This is a whole different league from roll-on balls.
> 
> You won't be dissapointed.


I assume this comment was aimed at me...or rather, my skulls. Just for the record, no one has been disappointed with the rollon eyes that I'm aware of, and with EvilBobs permission I will replacing them with his eyesocket design. Look for many improvements in the near future.


----------



## HalloweenBob

Actually, no that comment was an answer to the post directly above it.

This was not a shot at you or your work. Using the roll-on balls is both resourceful and innovative, but we do believe that what we have been able to manufacture is a step above using roll-on balls. We are designing these for the purpose they will be used for, not making something else work.

I have no issues or problems with your work. In fact, I am a fan of your innovation and work and last year I did use the roll-on balls in one of my skulls because these eye kits were not ready.

I didn't say that anyone would be dissapointed with Roll-on eyes. I said that people would NOT be dissapointed with our eye kits.

Sorry if you took this as a personal attack. I wasn't referring to or even thinking of your skulls when I made the comment. I was simply answering the prior post. Many people have used the roll-on idea (including myself) and it has had several threads dedicated to showing how to do it both here and on other forums including, but not limited to any threads you have made.

I will never put down another person's work. That was not my intention.

I do believe that our kit is a step above a person sawing off the tops of roll on deoderant and making eyes out of them. It sounded like Iseedeadpeople was going that route instead. I saw no reference by him that he was going for your design instead.

I know your design is more refined than what I described above, but most people who go the roll-on route do it themselves. At least that is my understanding.

Hopefully, there are no hard feelings here.


----------



## Dr Morbius

Thanks for the clarification..I took it the wrong way and apologize for that. Moot point anyways, as I'm ditching the rollons for proper eyes in the future.


----------



## dionicia

Wow. This thread sure has come a long way in 2 years time.


----------



## Evil Bob

Have the people who've received their eye kits have them running yet? Any videos or pictures?




HalloweenBob said:


> All the issues have now finally been resolved.
> 
> Don't give up yet. This is a whole different league from roll-on balls.
> 
> You won't be dissapointed.
> 
> 
> Please go here for more details:
> 
> Graveyardskulls - View topic - 2 axis eyes
> 
> look for the post that says, "EYE KIT UPDATE: JUNE 29, 2009"


----------



## Mr_Chicken

Evil Bob said:


> Have the people who've received their eye kits have them running yet? Any videos or pictures?


Has anyone received them yet?


----------



## Iseedeadpeople

Mr_Chicken said:


> Has anyone received them yet?


I asked the same thing awhile ago when they said all the problems had been resolved 



HalloweenBob said:


> All the issues have now finally been resolved.
> 
> Don't give up yet. This is a whole different league from roll-on balls.
> 
> You won't be dissapointed.



and they were being shipped and got no response from anybody.

Looking more like a flash in the pan than anything else at this point.


----------



## MsMeeple

Maybe they are so cool that they can't stop playing with them long enough to get online and answer 

MsM


----------



## bobdoddle

does anyone else notice that this eye kit doesn't look like it is in there 2009 design. servo location on this plate are for the old design, will it work for the new design? I know I'm not to experienced either, but doesn't this eye kit mount right where the bracket for the rod end bearings needs to mount in the old design? I'm not trying to start stuff I would like to know n case I decide to order a kit.


----------



## Iseedeadpeople

MsMeeple said:


> Maybe they are so cool that they can't stop playing with them long enough to get online and answer
> 
> MsM


Me thinks they bit off more than they can chew.


----------



## Specter

I checked the site earlier- no eye kit, no new model skull kits on there. Am I missing something? I dunno $255+ for an older model kit seems steep. I'm not saying it's not worth it- just pretty pricey for a single prop. I know these guys gotta make their money- they've put a TON of time/expense into these things. I dunno- maybe it's just me. I AM looking very forward to the eye mechs tho- I need one for a different prop, and was thinking of getting one from these guys. Anyone know the status?


----------



## dionicia

Their forum said they experiences problems with the LEDs but they fixed the problem and they are in the process of getting caught up. From the way they described it, I guess a lot of folks bought skulls. 

Which reminds me...I WANNA SEE VIDEO WHEN FOLKS GET THEIR SKULLS!


----------



## Myra Mains

I just finished reading this thread from start to finish and am left with lingering questions;

Are the new 2009 completed 3 axis skulls available now? what about the eye kits?

Is there any thing else needed with the purchase of a completed 3 axis skulls.

Is it a wise investment to purchase DMX. to run multiple skulls along with other props
If so is there anything in the complete 3 axis kit that I would not need.


----------



## dionicia

The linxmotion controller is pretty good. You can run up to 32 servos. Also, VSA (Visual Show Automation) from Brookshire Software - Visual Show Automation (VSA) - The Solution for Show Control Software to run both servos and relays. 

I'm going to use both to run both of my skulls and 4 pumpkins.


----------



## Myra Mains

If my recolection is correct using dmx allows me to run differant props, lighting , sound etc. at differant times and locations with only one computer. This might be pertaining to DMXorcist exclusively I'm not sure.

I was also wondering what is the easiest was to set up a Linberg skull with only jaw movement.


----------



## HomeyDaClown

Myra Mains said:


> If my recolection is correct using dmx allows me to run differant props, lighting , sound etc. at differant times and locations with only one computer. This might be pertaining to DMXorcist exclusively I'm not sure.
> 
> I was also wondering what is the easiest was to set up a Linberg skull with only jaw movement.


DMX is only a signal type going down the wire, you would need a computer running VSA, a USB DMX controller, DMX cable and whatever DMX device modules on the prop ends to make DMX work. It's good for long runs of cable and many devices....lighting...relays...servos but requires a decent investment. 


That would only require a Scary Terry (Cowlacious) Audio Servo Board like this:

Cowlacious Scary Terry Products

Use that to control a single servo like this: 

HS-425BB Super Sport BB

And you're good to go also a simple way to get started


You can always buy a skull servo plate and servos or eyes later on to add to your skull as well.


----------



## sledge

*eyekits*



MsMeeple said:


> Maybe they are so cool that they can't stop playing with them long enough to get online and answer
> 
> MsM


I hope that is the case but I am getting so nervous that time is going to run out before I get a chance to get them installed and then programed. tick tock tick tock Clarise! Halloween Bob was gracious enough to explain at length the who what and whys so all we can do is sit tight and wait. I still believe in the boys and what they are trying to accomplish. They have made it possible to have a talking skull in every pot!


----------



## HalloweenBob

The eye kits have started shipping out. Please chime in if you have gotten one. To answer some questions from back a page that I missed before, the eye kits will work on both the new design (which has yet to be unveiled in the store) and the classic design skulls.

Right now, we are just catching up with getting eye kits that have already been ordered out the door.

Thanks for the encouragement sledge! We have learned a lot this year and hope to be able to make better predictions on how long things will take in the future.


----------



## Dr Morbius

I'm dying to see a video of anyone who has one of these skulls with eye kits. I've seen the Prototype video, but I suspect the final versions look better, plus the LEDS sould look awesome!


----------



## shadowopal

I'll post video as soon as I get mine. I ordered the full Lindberg kit. But, I just received notice that orders are backed up a little bit and I should see it sometime in the next few weeks. So, I assume others will post video before I get a chance to. But, I'll still post something.


----------



## Mr_Chicken

I got my eye kit! No information on what needs to be cut out or what voltage to give the LEDs though, so I'm only able to play with the eyes themselves so far. There are a few disappointing aspects of it (they seem to bind in a number of positions), but I expect it can be worked around. I'll get some video soon.


----------



## dionicia

You might want to go to their website and see if they have instructions on their forum. I hope your able to work the bugs out. I can't wait to see some video.


----------



## Mr_Chicken

Unfortunately there is no info on the GYS site yet. I think Bob and Joel are too busy filling orders.

The video is of the kit upside down, as I have not yet learned how to mount it in a skull. It seems to bind up in certain positions, but overall, it seems like a good setup. I haven't been able to try out the LEDs yet, because I haven't learned what voltage they take. For now, enjoy the vid


----------



## Evil Bob

Excellent video Mr. Chicken! And amazing you put it up so _soon._


----------



## HalloweenBob

Hopefully, this will be helpful.

You can just apply 9VDC to whatever color wire you want. If you hook it up between the black and red wires, then you will get RED eyes, if you hook it up between the black and green wires, you will get green and between the black and blue wires, you will get blue. Please be aware of polarity. I believe that the Black wire gets the POSITIVE lead, and the colored wires get the negative (or GND) wire from the power supply.

I will confirm this shortly.

We have not yet had time to put up anything on the site showing how to mount these in the skull, however, for the most part, you just have to keep removing material from the inside of the skull until it fits. We use a dremel tool. Eye holes also need to be cut out in the skull. Joel has the exact specs for that if it has not already been done for you. I will have him comment here on the eye holes.

Anyone who wants us to cut out the holes and remove the extra material can mail us their skulls and we will do it for you. Currently, that is a $20.00 charge plus shipping.

More on all this soon.


Bob


----------



## gym_ghost

EYE KIT MOUNTING: I am working on the instructions with how to mount the eye kit to the servo plate and into the skull. These instructions will include how to modify the skull for placement of the eyes, alignment, and servo placement. 

Binding; can you be more specific with where its binding? I pulled your test record and noted no binding with regard to the limits of the eye. But again, everyone has a different application and how they set it up. If it continues, I can send out new arms that are more circular that attach to the eye axis bar.

Or, you might want to apply just a small amount of grease. That seems to help.

Typically, we design the eyes to run off the same power supply for the servos/VSA Board): 9VDC (do not power them from the VSA board). 

I hope this helps?

Thanks
Joel Briggs


----------



## HalloweenBob

Please don't be confused by the post above by Joel.

It sounds like he is saying that servos run off of 9VDC. THIS IS NOT THE CASE!!!!!!

I know this does not have anything to do with the eyes, but what Joel is saying is that we use a 9VDC power supply to power the SSC-32 board. We use that same 9VDC to run the LED eyes. HOWEVER, the SSC-32 has an on-board regulator that converts the power input to 6VDC and sends that voltage to the servos.

I don't want anyone to read the above post and then turn around and apply 9VDC DIRECTLY to the servos!!!

That would be BAD!


Just a clarification.

Bob


----------



## gym_ghost

COUPLE WORDS OF CAUTION: Do not apply pressure to the eyes at all or attempt to move them with fingers or tools. Move the eyes via the servo leads and or the axis wire arms. Doing so will cause alignment issues and in some cases, you may break the glue that holds them into place. 

Also, understand the limits for the eyes prior to any programming. Over extending the limits of the eyes will cause the HS-55 servos to burn up and burn up quickly. We are looking into going to a beefier servo, but its going to increase the cost of the eye kit by almost $40. 

It may be wise to purchase 1 or 2 HS-55 servos to keep as a spare if you have no experience with programming. (Not trying to scare you, just being cautious). 

If there is binding, apply just a dip of grease to the connection points on the axis eye bar. This helps. If it continues, contact us through our website.

FYI: as of yesterday, we have shipped out 72 eye kits and still have 47 more orders to knock out this week. And yes, we will be offering eye kits again once we clear out our backorders.

Joel Briggs


----------



## HalloweenBob

I do have confirmation on the polarity

You will connect the POSITIVE output from the 9VDC power supply to the BLACK lead comming from the eye kit.

If you want RED eyes, hook the NEGATIVE lead to the RED wire. If you want Blue eyes, Hook the NEGATIVE lead to the BLUE wire. If you want Green eyes, hook the NEGATIVE lead to the GREEN wire.

If you are feeling adventurous, you can hook up more than one colored lead to "Mix" colors and get different results. 

This is VERY important as reverse polarity can easily blow up the LEDs!


----------



## dionicia

I noticed on Mr. Chicken's video he did encounter a bit of sticking in certain places. At 12 seconds in, 29 seconds just a tad when the eyes look up, 57 seconds. At 1:25 seconds you can see it might be the loop in the middle is catching on the metal bar. Maybe a different way to attach the wire to the metal bar might help.


----------



## Dr Morbius

Mr_Chicken said:


> Unfortunately there is no info on the GYS site yet. I think Bob and Joel are too busy filling orders.
> 
> The video is of the kit upside down, as I have not yet learned how to mount it in a skull. It seems to bind up in certain positions, but overall, it seems like a good setup. I haven't been able to try out the LEDs yet, because I haven't learned what voltage they take. For now, enjoy the vid
> YouTube - GYS eye test 1


Those look good..Can you tell whats causing it to bind? Maybe you can fix it.


----------



## HomeyDaClown

Does not look like the mechanism is balanced, each axis is being driven from a different point. This will certainly cause some interplay from the servos at different points. To me it does not seem very fluid. 

That's an odd wiring color code with Black for Positive, it would be correct for a common cathode RGB led but not for common anode. Probably wanted a red wire for the red led's cathode instead. I'd have made the common anode wire white (pretty much standard now). 

Also, the individual RGB led elements normally require different voltages to give equal amounts of brightness. I wonder if the included resistors are of equal value or adjusted to allow brightness matching.


----------



## Mr_Chicken

HomeyDaClown said:


> Also, the individual RGB led elements normally require different voltages to give equal amounts of brightness. I wonder if the included resistors are of equal value or adjusted to allow brightness matching.


There are no visible resistors. Perhaps they are in the brass tubes or in the heat shrink tubing?



dionicia said:


> I noticed on Mr. Chicken's video he did encounter a bit of sticking in certain places. At 12 seconds in, 29 seconds just a tad when the eyes look up, 57 seconds. At 1:25 seconds you can see it might be the loop in the middle is catching on the metal bar. Maybe a different way to attach the wire to the metal bar might help.


I think the loop of wire does catch on the metal bar sometimes. Other times, it seems to me that the circular nature of the mechanism inhibits the X/Y movement of the servos-- once one axis is off to the side, the other has a limited range of motion. If the second servo is pushed to its limit (which is greater than the limit in said position), it cannot reach that position until the first servo is released to center, causing the second one to snap into place (and I mean "snap"). It seems like something that requires careful programming, but not something that is impossible to work around.


----------



## HalloweenBob

Yes, resistors are in there and ane "tuned" to give the correct voltages.


----------



## Dr Morbius

Mr_Chicken said:


> There are no visible resistors. Perhaps they are in the brass tubes or in the heat shrink tubing?
> 
> 
> 
> I think the loop of wire does catch on the metal bar sometimes. Other times, it seems to me that the circular nature of the mechanism inhibits the X/Y movement of the servos-- once one axis is off to the side, the other has a limited range of motion. If the second servo is pushed to its limit (which is greater than the limit in said position), it cannot reach that position until the first servo is released to center, causing the second one to snap into place (and I mean "snap"). It seems like something that requires careful programming, but not something that is impossible to work around.


It's a radial linkage, like mine only horizontal instead of vertical. Linear linkages, like the kind that use "E" brackets avoid this kind of limitation because the horizontal axis "rides" along the vertical axis. Yes, programming is the key to making it work properly.


----------



## dionicia

I'm so glad I understand what you guys are talking about. If I read this a year and a half ago, my ears would have smoke coming out of them and my eyes would have rolled around in the back of my head.


----------



## danandmeg

Sounds like you're running into similar problems I did last Halloween with the range of motion, tis the nature of the beast. However, thankfully I was only doing one eye so it was a little easier to cram everything behind the unused eye socket. Unlike the route that the majority seems to be taking now I used the roll-on deodorant trick for the eye socket which made it super easy. Ill start paying more attention to this to this thread again.

Here was mine from last Halloween: YouTube - 3 Axis Skull - Halloween 2008


----------



## mud

i am new to this site and am wondering if people in here just like halloween or are like me and live for it


----------



## dionicia

mud said:


> i am new to this site and am wondering if people in here just like halloween or are like me and live for it


 I would say the latter. Have you seen how long this thread is? This should tell you, we're nuts...er...ah...about Halloween.


----------



## gym_ghost

We match the leads to match the colors of the eyes: red to red LED, green to green LED, and blue to LED. The resistors are in the brass tube with the exception of some of the GYS LED kits.

I plan to do some redesign to the eye kits after the first of the year. I already have some ideas with going to a screw system. 

I can tell you this; with out the LED configuration, the original design was more fluid like; it pivot off a 1/2" ball with a 1/6" rod and had plently of clearance with the eye axis rod. Adding the brass tube for the wires, it changed drastically and space became very tight. As it stands, I have over $3,500 in parts for this and doubt I will ever use them... but we will see... 

Joel


----------



## shadowopal

Just got my Lindberg unassembled kit with 2 axis led eye kit. It looks terrific. The guys did an excellent job with production. The one I attempted last year looks like garbage. Line all over the plate the skull had holes in it. It's horrible. This one is nice and clean. All the scre holes in the servo plate have nice clean thread tapped in. Excellent job! I won't be able to assemble it until this weekend. But, I will take pics and video once it is together and running a program. Thanks for your dedication to this project guys. I will be ordering more in the future (especially once you get the solid white eyes with clear iris going .


----------



## dyceskynes

I just got my GYS skull and eyes last night. I just need to get the power supplies and start programming in VSA. Is there going to be a servo setup guide listed someone where for these?


----------



## HalloweenBob

Yes, I will be doing a tutorial on setting the servo limits and programming soon.


----------



## dionicia

I can't wait to see the videos. You guys are going to have so much fun programming VSA once you understand the basics.


----------



## shadowopal

I'm really looking forward to it. And this bad boy will get usage more than just Halloween. I also play fantasy miniature games and paint the minis. This will be part of my display board to explain my army to the judegs at conventions. I'm so stoked right now! I'm in the process of recording tracks to use for Halloween and conventions. Then when I get home from my trip this weekend, I'll get the bugger put together and see what it can do. Although I may have to pick up a power supply. I'm not sure if I have both or not in my supply bin.


----------



## dionicia

If you have a 5 volt 3.7 amp power supply, your good to go. 

That is very cool that you will be able to get off season use out of him. Very creative way to explain your set up to judges. You may get brownie point for that.


----------



## dionicia

Hey HB, does the kit come with a box to house the controller? I was curious as I know that has kept me from breaking my controller time and again. 

I had to have one of the power supply connectors replaced because I dropped my controller on the floor last year. Thank goodness for azdude. He was able to fix it.


----------



## shadowopal

dionicia said:


> Hey HB, does the kit come with a box to house the controller? I was curious as I know that has kept me from breaking my controller time and again.
> 
> I had to have one of the power supply connectors replaced because I dropped my controller on the floor last year. Thank goodness for azdude. He was able to fix it.


It does not. But, the controller is small. So, a small tupperware or something from Radio Shack would work fine.


----------



## shadowopal

dionicia said:


> If you have a 5 volt 3.7 amp power supply, your good to go.
> 
> That is very cool that you will be able to get off season use out of him. Very creative way to explain your set up to judges. You may get brownie point for that.


Not really looking fo brownie points. Just want something cool to make my display stand out from the others. Plus there are kids at the convention who'll get a kick out of it (and maybe a few adults lol).


----------



## dyceskynes

Has anyone used the 5v rail on an old PC power supply to run the servos? 
How to Convert a Computer ATX Power Supply to a Lab Power Supply (with video) - wikiHow
mbeckler.org :: ATX to Lab Bench Power Supply Conversion


----------



## Rev. Noch

dyceskynes said:


> Has anyone used the 5v rail on an old PC power supply to run the servos?
> How to Convert a Computer ATX Power Supply to a Lab Power Supply (with video) - wikiHow
> mbeckler.org :: ATX to Lab Bench Power Supply Conversion


I have not yet, but that's exactly what I'm planning on doing.


----------



## goin2silent

*Machined Components for your props*

Ive been reading the post, and am going to try to build one of these. Thanks for all the info. 

One thing I wanted to share for future projects for everyone. I noticed alot of talk about machined parts, of course they are costly and sometimes not easy to come by. There is a company I use alot for configurable machined parts :misumi company ( misumiusa.com) they have everything pretty much as Mcmaster but even more. I was even able to find a similar shaft on the original design that Halloween Bob used. Thanks again for all the info.


----------



## goin2silent

Someone might have asked but where do you purchase the wire connecting the jaw bone to the servo?


----------



## Kammo

> Someone might have asked but where do you purchase the wire connecting the jaw bone to the servo?


I got mine from a airplane hobby shop here in town. But I’m sure you can order it online if you need. Its called pushrod. Here is one place you can get it in 36" lengths. This is actually the exact same kit I got.
Electric Flight Complete Pushrod Set, 2 RC Hardware - HLFK0623 RC Parts Hardware

If you have hobby shop in your city that carries RC airplane parts they should carry this at all times. Gonna be around the same price.

Hope this helps


----------



## HomeyDaClown

Kammo said:


> I got mine from a airplane hobby shop here in town. But I’m sure you can order it online if you need. Its called pushrod. Here is one place you can get it in 36" lengths. This is actually the exact same kit I got.
> Electric Flight Complete Pushrod Set, 2 RC Hardware - HLFK0623 RC Parts Hardware
> 
> If you have hobby shop in your city that carries RC airplane parts they should carry this at all times. Gonna be around the same price.
> 
> Hope this helps


Just go to any hobby shop and ask for piano wire. They usually have it in 1 ft to 3 ft lenghts. Pushrods are a general category that include piano wire, woven flexible brass, fiberglass and nylon that come in various lengths and diameters so they may show you something else. A wire diameter similar to what a paper clip has should work fine.


----------



## hellowinnie

*Skull*

Hello,

I'm going to do something similar than this next year. My wife wishes to have a fully moveable head for her stirring witch.

To built it is not the big problem, but I'm not able to find reliable skulls in Germany - has anyone got an adress / weblink of a shop in america shipping their offers overseas to Germany?

Additional to this: Has anyone heard about voices / sounds / songs in german language? - I hope there will be anyone who had to do with it and can tell me where to get.

Many thanks :-;

Peter


----------



## dionicia

There is a group buy for Lindberg skulls here on the forum. You might want to check and see if the person putting the group buy together will ship internationally.


----------



## SpookySteve

Just to let you know the Lindberg group buy fell through for this year.


----------



## MsMeeple

German Newbie said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm going to do something similar than this next year. My wife wishes to have a fully moveable head for her stirring witch.
> 
> To built it is not the big problem, but I'm not able to find reliable skulls in Germany - has anyone got an adress / weblink of a shop in america shipping their offers overseas to Germany?
> 
> Additional to this: Has anyone heard about voices / sounds / songs in german language? - I hope there will be anyone who had to do with it and can tell me where to get.
> 
> Many thanks :-;
> 
> Peter


I live in the netherlands and ordered a lindburg skull from the UK. I'll check and see if I still have the link.

I found the thread but the link doesn't work anymore  http://www.halloweenforum.com/general-halloween/69333-lindberg-skull-europe.html
You could contact the store and see if they still carry it or can order it for you.
Model Hobbies Plastic model kits and diecast models for the enthusiast


----------



## hellowinnie

*Goeden avond*

Many thanks for the links, I'll try to contact them. Mein bester Freund ist Niederländer (er heisst Bieshaar) und ich freue mich sehr hier jemanden aus den Niederlanden zu treffen.


Peter


----------



## Mr Unpleasant

*I Quit!!*

I Give up on this! I'm throwing in the towel! I guess I just don't comprehend the software.

Things I can't seem to do:


Sync the jaw servo to audio
Set the servo range
Import from Parlay to VSA
Can't tell if I have a dead servo that was never used

But I guess all that is moot since I;m just going to shelve this thing and go back to hacking Dougies


----------



## HalloweenBob

DON'T QUIT!

I can help you with the programming part.

Call me tomorrow if you want to go over the software and I'll walk you through it.


Bob

PS. I'll PM you my number.


----------



## Mr Unpleasant

UPDATE: HalloweenBob has saved me from 3 axis oblivion, so I'm picking myself up, dusting myself off and charging forward with a new found vitality! 

He is, without question, one of the most talented people I've ever encountered and I feel privledged to have spoken to "The Master"

Thanks again for all your help Bob!!


----------



## shadowopal

Glad to hear Bob saved you from Boris hacking. The GYS crew are all very helpful.


----------



## fritz42_male

hellowinnie said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm going to do something similar than this next year. My wife wishes to have a fully moveable head for her stirring witch.
> 
> To built it is not the big problem, but I'm not able to find reliable skulls in Germany - has anyone got an adress / weblink of a shop in america shipping their offers overseas to Germany?
> 
> Additional to this: Has anyone heard about voices / sounds / songs in german language? - I hope there will be anyone who had to do with it and can tell me where to get.
> 
> Many thanks :-;
> 
> Peter


I contacted a local hobby store that stocked other Lindberg kits and they ordered a skull kit in for me. Might be worth a try.

Also try emailing lindberg ([email protected]) and ask them what distributors they have in Europe/Germany.

These people may do it

gefunden bei Modellbau-Universe


----------



## HalloweenBob

Mr Unpleasant, 

Thank you for the kind words. I am glad I was able to talk you down from the ledge.

I am currently working on fininshing up a tutorial on basic VSA programming. There is already one up on the website for hooking up the SSC-32 servo controller to your computer and getting VSA to talk to it.

Just go to Graveyardskulls - Animatronic Skulls for your Halloween Haunt and click on the "How To Build" link. The VSA Tutorial will be up later today.


Bob


----------



## CaptnJackSparrow

'ello ya swabs..

Cat 5 sockets.. punch-downs, ya say??

Several emails I 'ave gotten askin' 'bout 'ow ta puch-down/wire those pesky Cat5 sockets fer th' Lynx controller box.. well 'mates, ta tell th' truth.. did nigh use them, as they arrre $25/5 at th' 'ome Depot, so wot I did, says I was ta use th' cut off pigtail from each servo, twist/solder one end directly ta th' servo, an' use th' cutoff pigtail on th' other end o' th' Cat5 line, so's I could push th connector roight onta th' pins o' th' Lynx controller..

in short, my fellow swabs, one ond o' th' Cat5 'as a servo soldered ta it, th' other 'as th' servo connector..

I did start ta use sockets, bu' as I said, $25/5 be too much swag to part wit' fer this poor pirate..

'ope tha' 'elps those in need o' direction, bu' as me compass does only point ta th' thing I wants th' most, it be pointin' at me liquor cabinet.. an' nigh much 'elp at givin' direction in this matter, savvy? 

Capt'n Jack


----------



## dionicia

Hey Captn! Your still alive. 

Glad to hear from ya again.


----------



## sledge

Awwwww capt'n Jack You may be the worst pirate but you are the best servo wirer we've ever seen!


----------



## HalloweenBob

For those of you who have been waiting to purchase the New "Second Generation" 3 axis skull that I put a teaser out for months ago, it is available and for sale right now as of the time and date of this posting in the store at graveyardskulls.com.

There is a limited number for now and they are being sold on a first come, first serve basis.

I have been getting a lot of questions about this, so I thought I would put out the word.


----------



## Xpendable

Wow. I have finally finished reading every single post in this thread, from start to finish. It took me probably 10 hours over the last 2 days. I'm exhausted!  Thanks for the all the information from everybody! I'll be building my 3-axis witch head next week using the older, traditional Halloween Bob style of construction. I have everything but the rod end which I just ordered for McMaster Carr today. I already have the servos and the SSC-32 board and have experimented with VSA. Now I'm ready for some sleep!


----------



## Snap

*Thanks to Halloween Bob*

Hi I have just joined this forum , I would like to say I too have read every post under this category and it inspired me to finally make my own animatronic prop. I wanted to pay tribute to the works of HB and Captain Jack Sparrow so I am documenting the process in a new thread called 3 axis bucky skull tribute., under props. I am trying to make a 3 axis skull with the bucky skull. I am standing on the shoulders of greatness in the hopes that in some way I can help others the way that I was helped by these pioneers. Thank you HB and CJ. Long live the kindness of strangers. Special Thanks to Evil bob for all his informative posts.


----------



## MsMeeple

Xpendable said:


> Wow. I have finally finished reading every single post in this thread, from start to finish. It took me probably 10 hours over the last 2 days. I'm exhausted!  Thanks for the all the information from everybody! I'll be building my 3-axis witch head next week using the older, traditional Halloween Bob style of construction. I have everything but the rod end which I just ordered for McMaster Carr today. I already have the servos and the SSC-32 board and have experimented with VSA. Now I'm ready for some sleep!


It only took you 10 hours over 2 days?? Wow, you deserve a 3 axis metal of courage


----------



## Myra Mains

I'm sure that these questions are going to seem obvious to most everyone reading this, but for me I'm just not seeing it. 

I just received my GYS 3 axis skull and can't figure out how to hook up the power cord. 

I was also wondering what others were doing to keep the top of the skull in place while maintaining the ability to access the workings inside. 

Finally I was wondering why the kit didn't come with a port cable and where I would buy one that fits (preferably offline stores)


----------



## dionicia

I'll let Joel or HB answer the first question. The second one you can buy a coupler at Lowes or Home Depot along with a 2 or 3 inch bolt to hold it up. I used a piece of wood and clamped it to the table mine were sitting on. You can get the DB9 to USB cable a lot cheaper on Fleabay than at the stores. You can get one at Frys Electronics for around $16 I think.


----------



## Myra Mains

Thanks dionica for answering my post. The 2nd question that you answered was misunderstood, I was actually wondering how others were holding the top of the skull on without gluing it.


----------



## dionicia

Just a small hinge in the back should do it. Sounds cool when you close it.


----------



## Mr_Chicken

Myra, I just pop the skull cap on and it stays. No special attachments necessary 
(but you might want to go with Dionicia's idea...the sound effect might be worth it  )


----------



## sledge

Has anyone been able to reach Graveyardskulls?? I have had all my mail returned. I don't know if they are answering email right now or their mailbox is full?


----------



## markk96

Myra Mains said:


> I'm sure that these questions are going to seem obvious to most everyone reading this, but for me I'm just not seeing it.
> 
> I just received my GYS 3 axis skull and can't figure out how to hook up the power cord.
> 
> I was also wondering what others were doing to keep the top of the skull in place while maintaining the ability to access the workings inside.
> 
> Finally I was wondering why the kit didn't come with a port cable and where I would buy one that fits (preferably offline stores)




I got my kit a couple of weeks ago, and for my power cord at least, I had to put an OHM meter on it to find the postive side. It is not marked at all. 

Once you find that then just wire it into your controller board.


----------



## Myra Mains

I'm sorry, but wire it to your control board means nothing to me. Where on the control board does it get wired to? What do I also do with the wires going to the eyes? Is there something illustrated somewhere for these issues?



markk96 said:


> I got my kit a couple of weeks ago, and for my power cord at least, I had to put an OHM meter on it to find the postive side. It is not marked at all.
> 
> Once you find that then just wire it into your controller board.


----------



## markk96

Have you read these instructions?

Assembly Instructions for 3 Axis Skull


----------



## gym_ghost

Also, if you have issues with your skull, we can be reached at [email protected]. 

Regarding email being returned, we're looking into this. I suspect it has something to do with a HUB or something going down in Southern California Sunday. Some IP were not updated and hundreds of thousands of emails were being bounced back. I could not even log onto my email accounts. 

Joel Briggs


----------



## dionicia

I would like to know more about this new design for 2009 skull Joel? How is that coming along?


----------



## gym_ghost

Dionicia,
ITS DONE. There is a thread on this forum titled, NEW TWIST 3-AXIS SKULL. All I can tell you is this new design is the best out there. The motions are life like, much easier to program and basically, takes our 3-axis to a new level. 

http://www.halloweenforum.com/halloween-props/82296-new-twist-3-axis-skull-new-post.html


----------



## gmacted

gym_ghost said:


> All I can tell you is this new design is the best out there. The motions are life like, much easier to program and basically, takes our 3-axis to a new level.


Joel,

Do you sell new cars for GM (General Motors) too?


----------



## gmacted

gym_ghost said:


> All I can tell you is this new design is the best out there. The motions are life like, much easier to program and basically, takes our 3-axis to a new level.


Joel,

Do you sell new cars for GM (General Motors) too?


----------



## gym_ghost

OUCH!!! Well, sorry I came across like that!


----------



## Myra Mains

Thanks markk96, that link was exactly what I needed. I had previously read over everything on GYS web site but some how missed the one thing I was looking for, although I still haven't found anything for wiring the eyes.

I was wandering if you found that on the wall wart the wire with the lettering on it is the hot side?


----------



## shadowopal

gym_ghost said:


> OUCH!!! Well, sorry I came across like that!


Don't feel bad. At least the self praise is warranted. That is an awesome skull. Almost wishing I had held out ...almost. I need the one one I got for this year . Guess I'll have to save my scheckels for next year .


----------



## Myra Mains

*Please Help*

I would really appreciate it if someone could shed some light on why I may be having problems setting up my VSA program. I have followed the directions exactly in the GYS tutorial from VSA Programming 101. I am using a USB-SERIAL PORT cable and don't know what the port setting should be set to, and when I try to change the min and max values I keep getting a message stating;

Windows report the following error while attempting to open communication port

The system cannot find the file specified.

VSA operation will continue without communication port access. 
Resolve the error and restart VSA.

When you click *OK* it puts up another message:

Unable to open communication resource(s)

From a previous post I was also wondering if the positive side of the power wire is the side with the letters along it?

I am still hoping someone can tell me how to wire the eyes?


----------



## HalloweenBob

USB to Serial adapters are not all created equal.

We recommend the KeySpan USA19HS USB to Serial Adapter. 

(Keyspan High Speed USB Serial Adapter Serial adapter - USB)

It is available from a variety of places including ebay at a wide variety of prices. 

I have found that many USB to Serial Adapters do not work with many Serial devices. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't, but this particular one seems to work every time.

I was having trouble with a different device and got this one and all my problems went away.

I had to select the correct COM port after plugging it in. It will create a new one and it will be something like, "COM5" or "COM6".


----------



## FracturedDS

FYI the Parallax #28030 USB to Serial adapter works great with the SSC-32 board. I got my adapter from EFX-TEK

On another note it is nigh impossible to get a Serial cable at local stores anymore.


----------



## HalloweenBob

Thanks for that update.


----------



## dionicia

You know I still go back to the beginning of this thread as a reference. This is like the big book of 3 axis skulls.


----------



## Mr Unpleasant

I'm having an issue with the use of servo extension cables and am looking for advice for the pros. It's basically the Lindberg set-up(no eye kit) from GYS powered by a 5v -5A power supply. Everything seems to work fine when the servo cables are plugged directly into the SSC-32 but when adding a 48" Hitec extension cable the servos become jittery, any idea what may be causing this?

additional notes:

Using a laptop and a USB to serial adapter
using a 25' Serial extension cable
Running the one power supply into the VS1 terminal


----------



## azdude

If you are using the 5V supply for both the logic on the board and the power to the servos you may be too low for the logic part. The SSC-32 users manual says that that VL should be at least 6V. The first thing I would try is to use the 5V supply for only the servos and get another supply (between 6V and 9V) for the logic connection (VL) and then remove the jumper and see if it works better.


----------



## Dark Hawke

The 48" cables are quite long and heavy, Are the cables just hanging, causing them to pull on the skull?


----------



## HalloweenBob

AZ Dude is right!

You need at least 6VDC for VL and no more than 9VDC.

For VS you need 5 to 6VDC and no more.

Remove the VL+VS jumper and hook up a 9VDC supply to the VL and your 5VDC supply to the VS.

We have found that the 5VDC will run everything with no extensions most of the time, but you are running the chips on the board below the voltage they are designed for. This can lead to strange irratic behavior and the system could wig out at any random time. Not recommended.

If that is not the way you have it hooked up, please let me know and I will try to help you more.


----------



## themindshaft

*sputtery servos*



Mr Unpleasant said:


> I'm having an issue with the use of servo extension cables and am looking for advice for the pros. It's basically the Lindberg set-up(no eye kit) from GYS powered by a 5v -5A power supply. Everything seems to work fine when the servo cables are plugged directly into the SSC-32 but when adding a 48" Hitec extension cable the servos become jittery, any idea what may be causing this?
> 
> additional notes:
> 
> Using a laptop and a USB to serial adapter
> using a 25' Serial extension cable
> Running the one power supply into the VS1 terminal


My guess would be signal loss down the cable. Servo pulses are low signal to begin with. if you try to send them down a cable with too much resistance, the signal will be so weak when it reaches the servo, it will have a hard time reading pulse signal. As a rule, I use high quality cable (yes it dose make a difference) and never more than 5' of cable between servo and driver. Also, loose as many connectors down the path as you can. Every connector adds resistance to the line. Use direct solder connections wherever possible. Don't forget the heat shrink tubing!
Bill.


----------



## HalloweenBob

*2009 Quartet sneak peak*

Thought you guys would like to see one of the 6 new routines I am working on for 2009.

Here is the first:

YouTube - Sindy Skinless and the Decomposers sing Scream Scream Scream


I have added a few new features.


Enjoy!


----------



## dionicia

Ok, how did you do that with the arms???


----------



## HalloweenBob

Can't I have any secrets?


----------



## HalloweenBob

I'll post it as soon as I can find some pictures. I put these together in a rush and don't have time to take them apart again before Halloween.

I should have something, however....


----------



## Dr Morbius

Wiper motors be a wonderful thing.


----------



## dionicia

HalloweenBob said:


> Can't I have any secrets?


As long as this thread is...No.


----------



## Xpendable

Awesome stuff, as always, HalloweenBob!


----------



## HalloweenBob

Actually, the only wiper motor is in the guy that lifts up "Mr Head". All the other arms move with regular servos (and some help from springs).


----------



## dionicia

Just a reminder to folks burning the midnight oil trying to get their skulls, pumpkins and whatnot programmed, don't forget Trackskull. I have been using that to program my skulls and pumpkins and boy it makes a huge difference. I'm not getting paid to endorse it, but I am happy to share my experiences with everyone and it has made a big difference for me.


----------



## SpookySteve

Dionicia,
I just started using TrackSkull but it always seems to overtravel my servos. I have a BOC board and I have set the servo travel limits and saved them on the board. Then when I use TrackSkull it seems to forget the limits and move until the linkage arms pop off of my "Pan" servo. Do you know how to slow down the movement speed of the servos in TrackSkull, as that would at least allow me to stop my movement before it gets to the travel limit?


----------



## dionicia

SpookySteve said:


> Dionicia,
> I just started using TrackSkull but it always seems to overtravel my servos. I have a BOC board and I have set the servo travel limits and saved them on the board. Then when I use TrackSkull it seems to forget the limits and move until the linkage arms pop off of my "Pan" servo. Do you know how to slow down the movement speed of the servos in TrackSkull, as that would at least allow me to stop my movement before it gets to the travel limit?


Did you click on Servo Settings (for puppet mode) at the bottom and change the servo settings there? The settings are reversed from VSA. Make sure you are entering MIN/DEFAULT/MAX. The tabs will toggle you through MIN and MAX so you might need to click on Default to manually change that if needed. 

Also you will need to make sure the servo selection at the top matches the servo number you want to program. 

Does this help? Please let me know if you have any other questions.


----------



## SpookySteve

I will have to try your suggestions tonight and get back to you. Thanks for the help.


----------



## dionicia

Your welcome.

PM me if you have any other concerns.


----------



## HalloweenBob

Just wanted to post another video from Halloween 2009!

Here it is:

YouTube - Sindy Skinless and the Decomposers sing "Dry Bones"


----------



## Cab

That is absolutely brilliant! I love the movie.
I raise my glass and drink to your creative prowess.
Cheers!
My goal for 2010 is to create one fully functional 3-axis skull.
Thanks for the inspiration.


----------



## wicc_ed

Brilliant, just brilliant. 
Now where are the pics? lol
How many servo's do you have per arm?
and are the arms reqular Bucky bones, or something lighter?
thanks in advance.


----------



## HalloweenBob

To answer your questions, 

First, a short video:

YouTube - Robotic Arm Design

There are 3 servos. You can see how they are laid out. The large spring was needed to assist the shoulder servo in lifting the arm. The elbow servo and the "Twist" servo (At the top) do not need to be as large.

I was using metal gear 995MG servos from China. This was for testing. I had 2 fail because they are cheap knockoff servos and for final versions will probably go with equivilent HiTec servos, and perhaps a larger servo for the shoulder. The larger shoulder servo might even eliminate the need for the assist spring.

But what you see is exactly what I used in this years quartet and videos.

I will also be making final versions out of more durable material, but the Cast acryllic was easiest to work with.


Bob


----------



## Evil Bob

Very nice of you to post this Bob! Thanks!


----------



## HalloweenBob

You're Welcome....

And now a song that my wife wrote most of the lyrics for and sang the lead on:

YouTube - I'm In The Mood For Fright

I'm in the mood for Fright!


----------



## spinman1949

*Great !!!*

Well now that I know I can build a reliable and fully functional skull, I figure I will tackle something like this for next year. 

I think I will try my use of gears and torsion springs for the shoulders. I was truly amazed that after using reduction on the nod servo and putting in a torsion spring. Jeepers Creepers ran the entire night on one C cell 1500 MAH 7.2 pack. That was with about 70 routines run.

As far as your work and this theatrical effort. Gonna take one heck of an effort to come even close to matching it, but I am gonna try.


----------



## bfjou812

HB, very nice job on everything!! Have you thought of using "air muscles" for the arm movement? Just wondering if that was an option. Again very nice job!!


----------



## MsMeeple

Wow Bob, once again a fantastic routine that's better than the one before it! Kudos!
You've really come a long way from your fishing rod days!

MsM


----------



## agentbud

I wanted to say THANKS to everyone at HalloweenForum for all of the great information and assistance this past year. I know there is no way I could've tackled a project like this without all of your help. A special thanks to the guys at graveyardskulls for making it even easier. Here is my video for 2009:

YouTube- Halloween 2009 - Singing Skulls

Mike


----------



## bfjou812

agentbud said:


> I wanted to say THANKS to everyone at HalloweenForum for all of the great information and assistance this past year. I know there is no way I could've tackled a project like this without all of your help. A special thanks to the guys at graveyardskulls for making it even easier. Here is my video for 2009:
> 
> <object width="445" height="364"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ukUtFDu7QOk&hl=en&fs=1&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ukUtFDu7QOk&hl=en&fs=1&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="445" height="364"></embed></object>
> 
> Mike



Huh? LOL!!


----------



## agentbud

Ok, what's the trick to embedding a youtube video?

Nevermind - figured it out. See video in previous post above.

Thanks...
Mike


----------



## bfjou812

Very nice , nice action. You did a good job!!


----------



## MsMeeple

Very nice job! And so much room in those skulls!


----------



## HalloweenBob

I have started a new thread with all my new videos from 2009 in it instead of posting them each here.

You can see them all here:

http://www.halloweenforum.com/halloween-props/86502-singing-skeleton-quartet-videos-2009-a.html

Thanks!


----------



## propboy

I can't believe I read 179 pages of posts. Now I need to build this dam thing, I'm vested way to far not to.

Time to start ordering parts 

-PB


----------



## HalloweenBob

*The perfect Christmas Present!*

SKULLS!!!

There is a pre-order special going on right now at Graveyardskulls - Animatronic Skulls for your Halloween Haunt to get the second generation 3 axis skulls in time for Christmas!

What could be a better gift?

Seriously, check it out if you are interested.


----------



## HalloweenBob

Many have asked the question, "What's the difference between the Second Generation 3 axis skull and the Classic Design?". I will attempt to answer that question here. There are many factors and many differences. You have to weigh the advantages and the cost in your own mind to see if the tradeoff is worth it for you and your application.

1. The Second Generation 3-Axis Skull uses a completely different method for moving the axis rod. It uses rack gears which provide a higher torque transfer of power from the servos to the skull resulting in less wear and longer servo life. It also helps to hold the skull in it's position much better even when the servos are not energized.

2. Because of this new design, the motion is much smoother and more realistic with the second generation design. It is also pure linear motion. With the classic design, the movement of each axis has an effect on the other two Axes which prevents you from getting pure linear motion in any direction. There is always a pull to one side or another as each axis affects the others. With the Second Generation design, each axis is completely independent of the others preventing the "Binding Up" that can sometimes occur in the classic design when attempting motion in more than one axis at the same time.

3. The Second Generation 3 Axis Skull design is more reliable than the classic design in that there are no linkage arms that can pop off, and the rotate is done as "direct drive" straight fromn the servo. In the classic design, the Rotate tab becomes loose after hours of use and can slip causing the skull to not respond to rotation commands and eventually become misaligned. This can not happen with the Second generation Design.

4. The second Generation 3 Axis Skull is also easier for the end user to service should a servo fail. Simply Unscrew and unplug the bad servo, Put the gear on the new servo and screw down the new one, then plug it in. No hassles with linkages and complicated alignments. Also, when you change out a servo in the classic skull, it is easy to alter the position of the servo horn which changes all the servo settings for that servo causing it to behave differently to existing routines created with the old servo in place.

5. The portability of routines is much eaiser with the Second Generation 3 Axis Skull. If you create a routine on one Second Generation skull, it can be used on any other Second Generation Skull without having to modify or tweak the routine. This is because there are no real variables in the length or linkages or what hole is used in a servo arm or any of those thngs which cause each servo to have their own unique set of servo settings within VSA as is the case with the Classic Design.


All that said, the classic design is still a good design and if it is your only skull, these things may not be a big concern for you and you may want to save money by purchasing the Classic design. However, if the items mentioned above are important to you, we believe that you will appreciate the benefits of the new design and it will be well worth the extra cost.


----------



## Growler

I'm hoping someone can help me out. I bought a graveyardskull last July I believe. Well, I finally got the money for the usb cable and brookshire program so I'm ready to roll. Unfortunately, their site is once again down and I have no idea on how to hook this thing up. I've got the lynx board that plugs into the computer cable and I'm sure the servos hook into that. What I'm confused about is how do I hook up this power cable that looks like it goes to a laptop to anything. There is no instructions to go wiith this. Do I have to cut the ends off the power supply and if so where do I hook up the cables? 

I've read up to page 60 and there is only one diagram that I can roughly figure out. I'm not an electricition by any stretch of the imagination and this thing is way to expensive to just try to feel my way around. Can someone please post some photo/diagrams that a person of 5 can understand? Thanks guys.


----------



## bfjou812

Growler, try this site it is the manual for the ssc-32 controller. It looks like the terminal block labeled #4 or -vl+ on the board is for the power for the board, meaning it runs the board. the other 2 terminal blocks look like they are for the power for the servos -vs1+ and -vs2+. Here is a link to the manual for the board . Hope it helps

http://www.lynxmotion.com/images/html/build136.htm#ssc32feat


----------



## HalloweenBob

Please send me a PM and I will be happy to help you out tomorrow, or whenever works for you.

Bob


----------



## tbird7

I am really upset that Graveyardskulls are not selling component parts anymore for the skulls. I was waiting for the store to reopen to order some stuff to build my own 3AS. I can't afford to buy a complete one, and was going to build my own buying some of the more difficult parts like the shaft kit and bracket, and also the servo plate. What was the thinking behind deciding not to sell parts? Im sure there are others like me who want to buid thier own, but wanted to buy some of the parts instead of making them.


----------



## Growler

I was thinking the same. I can't afford a full skull this year due to me getting married so was hoping that they would have the parts so I could build one over the year a little at a time. Hopefully they will add that section.


----------



## gym_ghost

Folks,
I have posted the reason for not selling components and a change of heart here...Components for sale - changing

Thanks
Joel Briggs


----------



## Growler

Thanks so much for letting us know what the reasons behind it were. I can understand completely your reasoning with those type of issues. It's good to hear that you will overlook the scummy type of people to help out us legit haunters. Since I'm just beginning to dabble in the 3 axis I'm fine with what you are offering. I already have a bunch of skulls that look kind of like the complete 3-axis I bought from you. Now I can get the components from you as well to try to build my own little singing army.

Thanks again.


----------



## Vampire Lord

Real good job


----------



## Sparkey

*Lindberg Pirate Skull $14.99*

CJS = "Anyone find a good, low-cost source for Lindberg skulls? Most places I found arrrre abt $19 + $8-$10 to ship..."



I got mine here for $14.99 + $6.99 SnH
www_myatomic_com

Sparkey


EDIT -- EDIT -- 01.11.2010
Sorry for any confusion. I'm the new guy here and I've been reading about making a 3 axis skull for a few days, I'm still back on page 
50 something I think. Anyway I saw a post looking for the Lindberg Skulls (only) at a lower cost and posted where I purchased my skull. 

P.S. "VERY" cool forum "I'm lovin' it"


----------



## Nidhogg

I have been following and wanting one of these 3 axis skulls for a long time, but think I have finally been priced out of the market. It wasn't too bad when the skulls were around 200 - 300, but now with a price point of 700, that is a bit steep considering the declining number of trick or treaters I get each year. Wish I could justify the cost.


----------



## shadowopal

Nidhogg said:


> I have been following and wanting one of these 3 axis skulls for a long time, but think I have finally been priced out of the market. It wasn't too bad when the skulls were around 200 - 300, but now with a price point of 700, that is a bit steep considering the declining number of trick or treaters I get each year. Wish I could justify the cost.


Not sure what pricing you're talking about. However, the Lindberg skull Unassembled kit is still just $300 on Graveyardskulls.com . The classic model that is. Not the new one.


----------



## Growler

I'm on the next step of my 3 axis skull and could use a little input o what I need to do with Audacity. Halloween Bob gave me some input but, by now all I know is to record my voice into the program while listening to the music with headphones. Short term memory is really bad. I hooked up the mic to the computer but, couldn't find any record button on Audacity to record my voice. I'm hoping it was audacity that I was supposed to be using. Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## shadowopal

Audacity is fine.

Just make sure your mike input control is up and not muted in audacity. Then just hit record. it's the red circle next to the play button in audacity. If that doesn't work, you need to make sure you audio card is selected in the preferences and that you have all the proper drivers for your sound card. If that doesn't work, you need someone more tech savvy than I.


----------



## gym_ghost

Also, we have listed DEMO and REFURBISHED skulls that are $225. 

We're working on a cheap basic 3-axis skull that will go for $175 (trust me with understanding tight budgets - this one is no profit); using china servos, no eye kit, blow mold skull, and music wire and will come with no warranty. Gone are the HITEC servos and ball joints. I hope to have these available sometime in late February (but dont hold your breath). Heck, its a working 3-axis skull... and you can do the upgrades as you see fit. 

gym_ghost


----------



## shadowopal

gym_ghost said:


> Also, we have listed DEMO and REFURBISHED skulls that are $225.
> 
> We're working on a cheap basic 3-axis skull that will go for $175 (trust me with understanding tight budgets - this one is no profit); using china servos, no eye kit, blow mold skull, and music wire and will come with no warranty. Gone are the HITEC servos and ball joints. I hope to have these available sometime in late February (but dont hold your breath). Heck, its a working 3-axis skull... and you can do the upgrades as you see fit.
> 
> gym_ghost


That's pretty awesome if you guys pull it off. I'll be checking them out when they're ready.


----------



## slicerd

Sparkey said:


> CJS = "Anyone find a good, low-cost source for Lindberg skulls? Most places I found arrrre abt $19 + $8-$10 to ship..."
> 
> 
> 
> I got mine here for $14.99 + $6.99 SnH
> www_myatomic_com
> 
> Sparkey


If you buy from myatomic you can get free shipping on orders over $25, so buy two skulls and pay zero shipping.


----------



## Nidhogg

shadowopal said:


> Not sure what pricing you're talking about. However, the Lindberg skull Unassembled kit is still just $300 on Graveyardskulls.com . The classic model that is. Not the new one.


Well, I am talking about here Graveyardskulls - Animatronic Skulls for your Halloween Haunt and here Graveyardskulls - Animatronic Skulls for your Halloween Haunt

Then add a power kit for 100.00.....eye kit for another 100.00....you are topping out close to 500.00 a head. And that is for the "old" technology. Remember, some of us are not as talented as the rest of you at cobbling this stuff together. Don't get me wrong....I am not saying that the product is not worth the amount......just that it is out of my range for these times.


----------



## shadowopal

Yeah...that's the new skull up top. It's pricey. The original one is very good though and well worth the cash. I can't comment on the new ones as I haven't picked one up yet. But the original unassembled kit is still $325. Yes you need to pick up a few parts. But, you can find them for cheep with just a little time spent searching. 

When the prices were first announce for GYS, I was amazaed they were selling them for those prices. The time plus supplies did not equate. HAving built one from scratch, I can tell you that they were losing money originally trying to give everyone the best price possible (unless they had a really cheap supplier for all their parts). I built mine as a bulk kind of thing and even with bulk discounts, the parts are still expensive. I even cut my own servo plates (that sucked). When I saw GYS's original pricing, I couldn't figure how they were breaking even just on the parts....forget their time for assembling and shipping. I was sure either the price was going to go up or the company would fold. I'm glad they chose to raise the price a bit. They are still a bargain in my mind for the amount of effort it takes to find parts suppliers, machine the parts that are not available from suppliers (servo plate, axis rod, little a frame servo mounting plate...not to mention the eye kit WHICH IS AWESOME!), Assemble everything and package it for shipping. That's a LOT of time involved. Plus I think no matter how generous the guys at GYS are, they'd like to see a little profit for their troubles. Plus the really support their product. I know it's a small operation and they hit some snags initially. But, they helped me out a lot with the few issues I had and did so in a timely manner. That's something that even the big corps have trouble with these days.

I'm not argueing that it's a pretty penny. It is...especially in this day. And I'm not saying you're wrong Nidhogg. Really... I'm not. Please don't take my posts as antagonistic. I don't mean for them to be. Just letting others who may not know what goes into production what their money is going to. I started an effort to produce a cheap sound system package for Haunters. Let's just say I learned a lot of hard lessons and it never got off the ground. So, when I see a couple of guys trying to make an inexpensive product that is very cool and simplifies my life and not gouge the hell out of the common man, I give them their props. When a person can find the spare cash to invest, I highly recommend GraveYardSkulls.com .


----------



## gym_ghost

shadowpal,
Uh, wow!!! Thanks for the kind words. 

Nidhogg,
I do want to add, a lot of time went into developing the kits for ease of assembly. Shadowpal is right when he says we made no profit last year. We were making no money on the kits. Initially I just wanted to build a kit that was cheap and not going to gouge the end haunter. I know how expensive haunts can get. And to be honest, I figured we would only sell about 30 maybe 40 skulls at most - and gys would be gone. When we surpassed 200 skulls in sales, and we could not keep up with component sales, I took it to the next level and that was to make it a small company (after some debate with Bob and my accountant). We know have a small machine shop in San Bernardino, approximately 2,500 sf. 

November I hired a full time person that is dedicated to inventory control, assembly and shipping product. September I hired a temp engineer to come in and help us with modeling the new design. My accountant spent a few months going over the books and trying to understand what was spent and finally advised me I was in the red by $16,000 and this did not include my time or Bob’s time. 

December, we went through a complete restructuring and this included our pricing. Yes we are now making a small profit, but it’s not much. Most of this profit is going back into R/D and with working with a few other haunters with developing their products. 

I might add, were developing a cheap 3-axis skull that will go for $175, or maybe even $150. There is zero profit on this kit and I mean zero profit. I hope to have this available sometime in February 2010. 

Also, Shadowpal is right, our basic 3-axis skull, you can pick up the power supplies and build your own cables pretty cheaply. 

I hope this clears up what was and why the price changes?

Gym_ghost


----------



## shadowopal

gym_ghost said:


> shadowpal,
> Uh, wow!!! Thanks for the kind words.
> 
> *SNIP*
> 
> I hope this clears up what was and why the price changes?
> 
> Gym_ghost


Not a problem. Love what you've got going.

Wow! You guys really stepped your game up. Sounds like you've got a good handle on the shipping issues. Hope it turns out to be a good venture.


----------



## Growler

Hey Shadowpal, 

I wanted to thank you for the input. It worked just fine when I could find the correct button. Guess it's kind of ingrained that I shouldn't push the red button. lol Now I just got to figure out what all the graphs mean and what I'm supposed to do with it. Any help in what I'm supposed to do now would be a big help.


----------



## shadowopal

What graphs are you talking about? Audacity? Well, you need to export it into a file type that your servo-controller software will work with (I'm assuming mp3). For MP3, you'll need to download and install the LAME expansion. Download and instructions here: 
Audacity: How do I download and install the LAME MP3 encoder?

Then, you export your file as an mp3 and import into your servo controller program (I'm assuming VSA) and follow the documentation for that. 

Hope that wasn't too fast or assuming too much. If so, let me know where you're at and I'll try and help.


----------



## Growler

Hi,

Ok, I'm using audacity and going with wav. What I was wondering was I see the graphs in Audacity. Do I just export that file in wav. and then import it into the vsa? From there do I just create the little boxes, rectangles, ect. in vsa to get the movement from the wav. that I imputed? One small step at a time for me. Also, is there a way to figure out how many people are signing one song? I can tell if there is obvious different voices but, some like Honky Tonk Halloween makes me think there is one guy and it's on reverb. 

Thanks again.


----------



## Sparkey

*Rod End Part to use*

Hi everyone.
I've been reading this thread for a bit now (I'm still back at page 82)
and I have been reviewing parts as I intend to build several units.
One part, the rod end, listed in post #6 as:

--If memory serves me right, the rod ends I purchased were part 
number 2458K111 from http://www.mcmaster.com--

They cost $4.97 Each. My question is do I really need something that 
supports 1,174 pounds for a 1 pound plastic skull? I found the following 
part, KARI-03, at www-igus-com for a lot less money. 
Also they will cut a price deal on larger quantities and they even give 
out a free sample to try, my sample is on the way.

Look at the data below and please, those of you who have a working 3-Axis,
let me know if you think this would work.

I'd appreciate it as I've never done this before.
Thanks,
Sparkey



Line	part quantity price
1	KARI-03 1.00 $/Pc $1.95
2	KARI-03 10.00	$/Pc $1.89
3	KARI-03 20.00	$/Pc $1.83
4	KARI-03 50.00	$/Pc $1.77
5	KARI-03 100.00	$/Pc $1.72
6	KARI-03 200.00	$/Pc $1.66
7	KARI-03 300.00	$/Pc $1.63

Cad File Link: igus CAD
PDF File Link: http://www.igus.com/pdf/igubal_rod_end.pdf


Ambient Temperature Degree F: 40	(I picked this temp.)
Max static axial load, Short Term 90 lbs
Max static axial load, Long Term 45 lbs
Elongation at max Load 0.047 in.
Max static side load, Short Term 16 lbs
Max static side load, Long Term 8 lbs
Max dynamic load, rotating 22 lbs
Max dynamic load, oscillating 22 lbs
Max tightening Torque, Thread 0.36875 ft-lbs
Max tightening Torque, Ball 2.2125 ft-lbs
Thread 10-32


----------



## bfjou812

I can't see why it would'nt work, just make sure that you have enough clearence. Also I'd check the degree of pivot before the race of the rod end would contact the upright rod. That way you can be sure you have enough clearence for the nod motion.


----------



## shadowopal

Growler said:


> Hi,
> 
> Ok, I'm using audacity and going with wav. What I was wondering was I see the graphs in Audacity. Do I just export that file in wav. and then import it into the vsa? From there do I just create the little boxes, rectangles, ect. in vsa to get the movement from the wav. that I imputed? One small step at a time for me. Also, is there a way to figure out how many people are signing one song? I can tell if there is obvious different voices but, some like Honky Tonk Halloween makes me think there is one guy and it's on reverb.
> 
> Thanks again.


To be honest... I haven't actual worked with VSA. I Just read the instructions they have. But, I believe there is a function in the VSA software that imports the audio and tries it's best to make the various channels you set up match the music. From what I've read, it doesn't work all the time. I was planning on doing what you said above.

As far as figuring out how many vocalists. Do a search online. You should find info on it. I'm amazed that Captain Clegg and the... don't have their members listed on their myspace page. Most do. So, you may have to contact them or watch some videos of them performing the song to figure it out.


----------



## bfjou812

Growler , the quick way is under the tools tab,load the audio file into VSA, you will see a wave form on the bottom of the screen, then go back to the tools tab and click on wave form analyss, it will ask some info, and when you are done you will click ok, and if everything worked it will have all the "little rectangles" . If you hook up a servo to the channel you selected in the wave form analysis and go to the execution tab select play all, you can see the servo moving to the words. Hope this helps!!


----------



## shadowopal

Helped me. Thanks bfjou812.


----------



## bfjou812

As a side note, I used the wave motion analysis and Track Skull to animate this routine. This has not been refined at all. The eyes didn't work due to another issue but in the final setup and video they are. Unfortunatly the video of the party where this was setup was lost...Hope this will help and show what you are able to do. http://www.halloweenforum.com/halloween-props/85186-whos-slab.html?highlight=slab


----------



## shadowopal

Had to play with your link a bit to get it to work. Let's try this one:
Whos on the slab :: Who's on The Slab? video by bfjou812 - Photobucket


----------



## Growler

bfjou812,

I finally had some time today to try what you said to do. I'm doing a song, It's only Halloween. Well, when I tried it the skull was bouncing all over the place fo the jaw. The little squares were almost a constant line across the graph. Where you talking about just a voice recording or a whole song that I can import? 

Thanks


----------



## bfjou812

Growler, In audacity split the song into a left and right track. Then take the track that has the vocals and import that into vsa and use that in wave motion analysis. Once you have that down save it and import the rest of the song into the audio file and use that one for the audio. I hope this helps.


----------



## Growler

Hate to keep bothering you guys about this. Never tried using a sound mixer like this and there really isn't any good help in the help section. The song is in stereo and I tried splitting the track and muting one or the other but, they both play the voice and music. I can't find anything that would let me take the voice out. I've done the left and right channels and that didn't help. Neither did mono. I feel like I'm banging my head against the wall.


----------



## bfjou812

Send me a pm with your e-mail and I'll send you one of my routines that has only a vocal track that you can mess around with if you would like. If needed I can eliminate the other servos and send just the vocal track. What version of VSA do you have?


----------



## HalloweenBob

*Detailed Instructions*

You will find detailed instructions on how to create the vocal track and how to correctly program the Jaw servo in VSA here:

Assembly Instructions for 3 Axis Skull

It's good reading!


----------



## beatlerat

I sure wish there was another source for the software (VSA) controlling these skulls. I do not have a plug-in for Vixen (my choice), and I have already received a nasty email from a Technician working for Brookshire that even gave me some wrong info about their software. I ordered the disk from another source (two weeks ago), and they are having a hard time getting copies. My skulls are built and working using the shareware, but I have no way to start my sequencing. 
Keith


----------



## HalloweenBob

I don't understand the problem. VSA is purchased and downloaded right away from the Brookshire Software site. You don't get it sent on a CD.

Is the issue that you don't like the software and want to use something else?

As for Shareware, do you mean the trial version of VSA that does not allow you to save anything?


----------



## beatlerat

HalloweenBob said:


> I don't understand the problem. VSA is purchased and downloaded right away from the Brookshire Software site. You don't get it sent on a CD.


You do if bought from a distributor.



> Is the issue that you don't like the software and want to use something else?


I would rather use something I am familiar with, such as Vixen, which is what I use for my Christmas display and have used it for Halloween projects in the past. I am sure that VSA is very similar in structure and use, and will not be a problem sequencing. It is another 60.00 bite I didn't want to make.



> As for Shareware, do you mean the trial version of VSA that does not allow you to save anything?


I am using the Lynx SSC-32 Terminal program to test the servos.

I called Brookshire to ask some questions and I got a email back from them telling me to go to a distributor if I wanted to talk to someone. I also received some bad information about their licensing and such. That question has since been answered, but not by Brookshire. I did not like their attitude nor the fact that they did not return one single call, so I went to a distributor, and now they are having problems getting the software.

With the problems I am having, none of this is worth my time chasing this down. I am frustrated with Brookshire, and may can the whole thing if I must wait much longer. I should have checked them out like I did most of the other companies before starting this project. I can't afford to throw money adn time away like that. I have better (not funner) things to work on.
Keth


----------



## HalloweenBob

OK, I understand now. 

I am also unhappy with Brookshire Software's customer service. To my knowledge, they have never, nor will they ever return a phone call, and they will never answer the phone.

They will email you back, but often don't really get what the problem is and send you 'form letter' type answers.

That being said, I do like their product, and haven't found anything else that does the job as well. There may by now be a plugin for Vixen for the SSC-32. I am not sure. I know that they are now supporting some servo controllers.

I was unaware that there were distributors for VSA. I assumed that you just purchased it through their website.

I just sent you a PM.


----------



## shadowopal

Talked to the Jon's at Efx TeK awhile back and they were looking at Vixen coding for their stuff. Might be worth it to check the forums and see if anything has come about yet. I would, but I'm at work and probably won't remember when I get home.


----------



## beatlerat

I am familiar with Vixen as I am a proud member of the DIY Christmas club from Christmas in Shirley. They are a great group of people that are just as supportive of their ideas and projects as this forum is of Halloween.
Having said that, I have tried all of the applicable plugins that Vixen has available and since we also use PWM, I thought maybe something might work. Some of our people say that a plugin is doable, but someone needs to step up and write it. I am not versed in "C", so I can't do it. Until then, there are limited apps that will run the SSC-32 board. I agree that VSA is the strongest one out there, and may well be the best interface for sequencing the skulls, I am just not having much luck obtaining the software at this time.
I am venting some what for Brookshire's lack of my enthusiasm for this project, so I will leave it for now and hope that either my disk comes in the mail, or another way to do this becomes available.


----------



## HalloweenBob

By the way, nice work on your lighting display beatlerat!!

Ratliff Christmas 2009-2 on Vimeo


----------



## Dr Morbius

Who is the Distributor? Do they have a website? Also, what were the questions you asked Brookshire and what were the answers? I take it you at least tried VSA DEMO version? If so, what problems did you encounter? I have had the exact opposite experience with John at Brookshire, I got prompt Emails and VSA is a wonderful product....except for the upgrade thing with regards to upgrading to a newer version I had in the past, but that was my fault, yet I digress.

Some more details might help us help you, unless Halloweenbob has already answered your questions via PM.
\


----------



## beatlerat

I am not going to hijack this thread. Brookshire's tech support sent me an email sending me to one of their distributors to buy the software. It was their way of not wanting to deal with me after I complained to them for not returning my phone calls.

All I am saying is that I wish we had another choice of software. I might not have started on this project had I realized how difficult they were to get in touch with. Now everything is built, my disk is paid for, and I am awaiting its arrival. It's too late to go back and start over. I will just play the wait game.

For the rest of you, don't do what I did, just buy the software and get the download, NQA. You will be much better off.
Keith


----------



## Deathly

*Vixen SSC-32 plugin*

The servo plug-in for Vixen exists and it uses Mini-SSC protocol which is directly supported by the SSC-32 board. There are also plug-ins for the Efx-Tek Prop-1, Prop-2 and SX type prop controllers. Jon at Efx-Tek is very good at creating and supporting plug-ins for their products in Vixen.

I've tried in the past to get support from Brookshire for VSA's plug-ins with little or no success. Many a time I was just told that the plug-in was proprietary and there were no specs or details. 

On the other hand the Vixen forum is a wealth of information from people that develop and use the software. I've been able to solve many issues talking to members of their forum. It's nice to be able to talk to the guy that wrote the software.

This updated list of Vixen supported hardware output plug-ins is here:

Vixen Downloads


----------



## beatlerat

Deathly said:


> The servo plug-in for Vixen exists and it uses Mini-SSC protocol which is directly supported by the SSC-32 board. There are also plug-ins for the Efx-Tek Prop-1, Prop-2 and SX type prop controllers. Jon at Efx-Tek is very good at creating and supporting plug-ins for their products in Vixen.
> 
> I've tried in the past to get support from Brookshire for VSA's plug-ins with little or no success. Many a time I was just told that the plug-in was proprietary and there were no specs or details.
> 
> On the other hand the Vixen forum is a wealth of information from people that develop and use the software. I've been able to solve many issues talking to members of their forum. It's nice to be able to talk to the guy that wrote the software.
> 
> This updated list of Vixen supported hardware output plug-ins is here:
> 
> Vixen Downloads


Deathly, 

I agree with most everything you say, especially being able to contact KC, the person who wrote Vixen. Everyone on that board is insightful, helpful, and understanding of your questions and problems.

I am familiar with Vixen as I have 3 Olsen 595 controllers, 6 Renard 24's and 4 Renard SS-16's. I ran 120 channels of lights this past year with much more capability.
However, I have yet to get the mini-SSC plugin in Vixen to work with my SSC-32 controller. If you have had success, please let me know your settings. This would solve all of my problems. I have spent some time trying to get the board to work with the mini-SSC plug-in to no avail.

**********EDIT************

Success!!!!!!!! The problem was in the baud rate. I thought the SSC-32 board was set to 115.2 but the plugin will not run at that rate. The fastest rate for both that matches is 38.4!!!! I still do not have 180 degrees on the servo (about 100 right now) but I will work on it and let you know. This is so great because I can use vixen to do my stage lighting and other controls for the band without having to do extra programing in VSA.

Keith


----------



## Growler

Ok, back to me. lol jk

I think I'm figuring out the whole brookshire and audacity thing. I have to put in MY perameters for the skull servos every time I want to do a project. Then upload the song file. Then run the wave analizer (sp). It then gives me the graphs in my jaw graph bar. Then I go up and delete all the sections that has music and no voice. It seems really hard to get the jaw lined up just right with all lines on the bottom for the sound. I take it there isn't an easier way to do this?


----------



## Rev. Noch

Right, you'll want to record a track that matches only the voice that you'll want to have VSA to analyze. The easiest way is to record yourself doing the lines while hearing the music/audio whatever on headphones. Then do the wave analysis on the voice only track.

Then when you are finished, replace the voice only audio with the main audio file you want your audience to hear.


----------



## Growler

Ok, I think that is what Halloween Bob was trying to explain to me also. I remembered some of it but, not all. Ty for refreshing my memory. Thankfully I have a lot of "me time" so I can traumatise my cats with my singing. lol


----------



## Deathly

beatlerat said:


> Deathly,
> 
> I agree with most everything you say, especially being able to contact KC, the person who wrote Vixen. Everyone on that board is insightful, helpful, and understanding of your questions and problems.
> 
> I am familiar with Vixen as I have 3 Olsen 595 controllers, 6 Renard 24's and 4 Renard SS-16's. I ran 120 channels of lights this past year with much more capability.
> However, I have yet to get the mini-SSC plugin in Vixen to work with my SSC-32 controller. If you have had success, please let me know your settings. This would solve all of my problems. I have spent some time trying to get the board to work with the mini-SSC plug-in to no avail.
> 
> **********EDIT************
> 
> Success!!!!!!!! The problem was in the baud rate. I thought the SSC-32 board was set to 115.2 but the plugin will not run at that rate. The fastest rate for both that matches is 38.4!!!! I still do not have 180 degrees on the servo (about 100 right now) but I will work on it and let you know. This is so great because I can use vixen to do my stage lighting and other controls for the band without having to do extra programing in VSA.
> 
> Keith


Keith,

I was going to mention the baud rate setting but I see you found it. There is also a setting for the Min / Max servo positions you can adjust to your needs. I believe the default is 100 but you can easily change it to whatever you need.


----------



## Halstaff

Finally finished reading the entire thread. Can't wait to have my skulls up and running!


----------



## slicerd

beatlerat said:


> Deathly,
> 
> I agree with most everything you say, especially being able to contact KC, the person who wrote Vixen. Everyone on that board is insightful, helpful, and understanding of your questions and problems.
> 
> I am familiar with Vixen as I have 3 Olsen 595 controllers, 6 Renard 24's and 4 Renard SS-16's. I ran 120 channels of lights this past year with much more capability.
> However, I have yet to get the mini-SSC plugin in Vixen to work with my SSC-32 controller. If you have had success, please let me know your settings. This would solve all of my problems. I have spent some time trying to get the board to work with the mini-SSC plug-in to no avail.
> 
> **********EDIT************
> 
> Success!!!!!!!! The problem was in the baud rate. I thought the SSC-32 board was set to 115.2 but the plugin will not run at that rate. The fastest rate for both that matches is 38.4!!!! I still do not have 180 degrees on the servo (about 100 right now) but I will work on it and let you know. This is so great because I can use vixen to do my stage lighting and other controls for the band without having to do extra programing in VSA.
> 
> Keith


Thanks for updating us Keith I am going to be getting a SSC32 soon and have also been looking at building some renard light controllers for use with Vixen so being able to control both could be great.


----------



## dionicia

I'm thinking of putting a toggle or rocker switch on my control box, but I am not sure what type of switch to get. I am using a 5VDC 3.7A switching power supply but I can't seem to figure out what switch I can use for it. Any ideas?


----------



## Deathly

dionicia said:


> I'm thinking of putting a toggle or rocker switch on my control box, but I am not sure what type of switch to get. I am using a 5VDC 3.7A switching power supply but I can't seem to figure out what switch I can use for it. Any ideas?


Just about any toggle switch for a car will do. For a plain old ON/OFF switch, get a SPST (single-pole, single-throw) type rated at least 12 volts and 5 amps if you are controlling the 5 volt side. It will have only two connections and will be easy to wire up.


----------



## dionicia

Thanks Deathly. This is going to make it easier to make another controller box.


----------



## Sparkey

*It's Aliveeeeeeee 02.21.2010*

It's Alive!!!!!!!!!!! I now have my 1st working skull. Just wanted to post a few pictures and say thanks: to this forum for so many cool ideas, to Halloween Bob for starting up this monster, and to everyone who helped me by answering my questions. I have tested each servo line and everything works. Now I'm off to try and figure out; "parlay" and how do I program the monster to sync up with a sound file. Sorry for the poor quality of pictures but I only have a cheap digital. 
All the best to you and yours,
Sparkey


----------



## HalloweenBob

Looks like you've got it!

One word of advice.... Those glasses aren't doing him any good!


----------



## Sparkey

HalloweenBob said:


> Looks like you've got it!
> 
> One word of advice.... Those glasses aren't doing him any good!


Thanks.
The glasses are my little pun as I've decided to leave out the eyes.
And thanks for the inspiration.
All the best to you and yours!
Sparkey


----------



## Growler

Just a quick question on the vsa programming. I finally got up the nerve to work a little more on it after getting frustrated. I used a wav. of It's only Halloween. I recorded my voice, uploaded it and then deleted jaw movements that didn't belong. Then I uploaded the original song and the jaw movement doesn't match with the original. It's about 4 sec. off. I'm sure you guys have run into this and was wondering if you could give me a quick fix? At least I'm hoping it will be an easy quick fix. lol


----------



## HalloweenBob

I suspect that your two wav files are not properly synchronized.

If you email them to me, I can look at them and fix them up for you.

If the files are too large for email, then maybe you can upload them somewhere and give me a link.

Bob

[email protected]


----------



## Growler

*It's only Halloween*

Ok, ty.

I emailed you my rendition of the song. As I said it's nothing special, just a start for the learning of the vsa. I couldn't send the song so I'll try to attach it here. New to this too so please bare with me. Ty for taking the time to look at it. Darn, it doesn't list a wav. as an uploadable file. Ok, got the original song emailed using different computer. I used the suggestion to sing along with the song to get the voice for the vsa. I don't know why it wouldn't line up then. I'm glad some of you guys are into this. I just might stick with the mechanics. lol


----------



## shadowopal

For your edification, There is a website for sending large files via email. It's called YouSendIt.com . If you should need it again that is.


----------



## HalloweenBob

All I got was the VSA file. No audio files.

I will need the wav files to fix the problem.

Go ahead and use "yousendit" if you don't have other options for uploading large files. BTW, how large are the wav files you have?


----------



## Growler

Thanks Shadow. I tried it and it actually had me as a member. Competely forgot I had even used it before.


----------



## shadowopal

Not a problem. I use it all the time. Happy to jog your memory .


----------



## Sparkey

*Protection v. Servo Power Control*

Aarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrg and Oh Bother.
I've searched the world over and thought I've found... NO! NO! NO!

I've finally got VSA figured out. Now I need to learn the macro thing. 
My plan is to have several routines in a repeating loop with some dead time between ie:
LOCATION 1 - ProGraM-A1, delay, PGM-A2, delay, PGM-A3, long delay, REPEAT. 
LOCATION 2 - PGM-B1, delay, PGM-B2, delay, PGM-B3, long delay, REPEAT. 
A is skull #1, B would be skull #2, etc.

I plan on setting up 2 different areas with just 1 or 2 skulls at each area: 
1 = Display by the house front door and 
2 = Display out in the yard by a tree. 

So what I need to know about is what to do to protect them and should I worry about wire length.

I remember reading something about you should turn off the power to the servos when they are not running to protect them/extend their life. 
I've done a search of this thread and can not find the information on how this is done. Can someone please point me the the correct post on how this is done.

On the wire length question I plan to put my computer in a central location. I've built a data/power control box using DB15 connectors. DB15 allows me to have all RYB servo wires (3x4=12) for all 4 servos (N.T.R.J) on one cable and now I have a modular wire (22 AWG) harness for easy storage. 

Visual this: SKULL servo wires (about 12" long to hide them down low and give slack for movement) to DB15 connector --- DB15=CABLE=DB15 --- DB15 to control box w/ SSC32 --- serial cable to computer. 

So can the SSC32 handle this distance for power and control signals with out damage? The distance between the SSC32 and the front door will be about 15'. The distance between the SSC32 and the yard prop will be about 25' the other way.

I am using a modified ATX computer power supply and have lots of amps to play with and my power is clean on 12, 5, 3.3 VDC etc.

Thanks,
Sparkey


----------



## dionicia

You could use Helmsman MonkeyBasic.com - Helmsman to do this. It's free.


----------



## HalloweenBob

OK, to answer your questions....

First, powering down the servos inbetween routines can be done within VSA. You will need a relay board like the Kit74. The power for VL on the SSC-32 remains connected and on at all times. The power for VS goes through a relay first, then to the SSC-32 board. Make the first event in your routine a command to turn that relay on and apply power to the relays. You can use other relays on the board to control lighting. The command to turn on power to the relays should run as long as the routine and end at the end of the routine as the last event. That way. servo power comes on at the beginning of the routine and shuts off at the end of the routine and stays off during the pauses inbetween.

The macro control can be handled very easily with Helmsman as dionicia suggests. Helmsman can even control the Kit 74 board and turn on and off servo power if you prefer, instead of making it part of the routine. Helmsman can also play spooky music or sound effects at a lower volume level inbetween your routines during the pauses. It is a very versitile program!

I assume you are using two different computers and VSA installations to control the two different displays.

The 25 foot distance might be a problem with the wires you have chosen, It won't hurt anything to try, but there may be too much loss through resistance. I would not run the servo power through the 22 gage wire. Only the command (pulse) wires. I would run heavier gage wire for the power. Maybe 18 gage. The 15 foot serial cable from the computer to the SSC-32 should be fine. If you can do it, I would recommend a longer Serial cable to get the SSC-32 closer to the prop, and shorter wires from there to the skulls. I have heard of people successfully running a serial cable up to 50 feet! Actually it was a monitor cable with adapters on both ends.

You can try it with the 22 gage. It won't hurt anything. If it works for you, then you're good. If you are planning to run individual power wires to every servo, you will probably be fine. I usually run one set of power wires out to each skull and divide it up to all the servos inside the skull. That cuts down the number of wires I need to run, but it also requires that the power wires be heavier gage.

I hope I have understood your questions correctly and have given you the answers you need.


----------



## Sparkey

*Protection v. Servo Power Control*

Thank you for the information. I appreciate your help.
Here are my points to clarify what I'm doing.

I have built a weatherproof enclosure to hold my computer and electronics for my Christmas
displays. It sits outside all winter (here in Iowa) with no problems (well insulated, water 
tight etc) so I planned on using that to hold the controller computer with the electronics
and disguise it as part of the haunt. Hence my serial comms cable is only about 6 feet to
the SSC-32.

I want to use this one computer, with just one SSC32, to control both stations having 
two different routines. It will mean mixed programming, meaning both run sequences will 
be under one program but they will operate independantly. 

(At "this moment" the plan is simple {famous last words!}, only 2 skulls.)

As the SSC32 can control 32 items I can use two relays to power two separate stations:
Example: 
SSC32 Pin30 = Power Relay 1, all power to Station 1 comes from relay 1
SSC32 Pin31 = Power Relay 2, all power to Station 2 comes from relay 2
SSC32 Pins 0-3 = skull 1 (all 4 power lines from relay 1 to the correct red pin)
SSC32 Pins 4-7 = skull 2 (all 4 power lines from relay 2 to the correct red pin)

This "command center" will be between STATION-1 and STATION-2. I understand the servo wires
are: Red(+5vdc), Black(-) and Yellow(PWM). So using the DB15 I thought I could run each set
RBY to each servo. DB15 Pins: 1,4,7,10 = Reds * 2,5,8,11 = Blacks * 3,6,9,12 = Yellows,
this means each servo gets its own power line, ground line and signal line. 
So the wire distnace, or length, is from the command center:

[Station1]---25'---<COMMAND CENTER>---15'---[Station2]

Hence, as each servo has its own power wire in the harness I thought 22AWG would work fine.
I have not built the harness yet, this was my design concept: modular for easy break down 
and storage, so I can use larger wires for the power line or change the whole thing.

I thought 22AWG would be fine as it is rated for .92 AMPS on power transmission and I
understand that the max each servo uses is .5 AMPS.
DATA FROM HERE: American Wire Gauge table and AWG Electrical Current Load Limits with skin depth frequencies
I also wanted to use 22AWG as it would solder into the DB15 with ease. 

On Helmsman, I've heard of it and downloaded it (from MonkeyBasic.com) I just have not tinkered
with it yet so I don't know what it can do. I appreciate the input on that and will play with 
it and see what I can learn.

Thanks again for your input and help!!
Happy haunting.
Sparkey


----------



## HalloweenBob

OK, I understand better now.

So all the routines will be run off the same computer which is more or less centered between the 2 display stations.

You will not need to use 2 different relays for the power. It doesn't matter which station will be used, when the relay comes on, it will power up all the relays and power them down when the routine is finished.

OK, if you really want to get the most out of it, you can use 2 relays. Remove the two jumpers over the pins that say VS2=VS1 on the SSC-32. Run a separate line from your 5VDC power supply to each input (VS1 and VS2). Each of these lines goes through a different relay to turn them on. That way when station one is not on and station 2 is running, you will not be sending power to station 1 servos. Make sure that the skull (or skulls) at station one are on the VS1 side outputs (0-15) from the SSC-32 and the skull (or skulls) at station 2 are plugged into the VS2 outputs (16 - 31). That will be the most efficient conservation of servo power.

About the wire lemgth and gage:

It is not so much an issue of how much current is the wire capable of handling, but instead, how much of a voltage drop will occur over the length of the wire due to the wires own resistance. The smaller the gage, the higher the resistance and the more of your power gets eaten up along the way and is therefore not available at the servo end. I am also not talking about the servo power here. There should be enough there to compenjsate for the loss. The signal (or pulse) that comes out of the SSC-32 and tells the servo what to do is not very strong to begin with. It can't afford to lose much of it's signal strength. If that signal is too weak when it arrives at the servo, your servos may chatter, act irratically, or not move at all.

There are many variables that will determine what the maximum length that you can run in your situation will be. The 15 foot run will be fine with the 22 gage wire. I am fairly sure of that. I am not sure about the 25 foot run.

The only way to find out for sure is to try it. You won't danage anything by giving it a try, so make up a harness and try to run servos with it. If they behave correctly repeatedly at 25 feet, then you're fine.

Go for it.

If not, try a larger gage wire and hope for less signal loss.


----------



## Sparkey

*Protection v. Servo Power Control*

You Sir, are a GENIUS and have a much better memory than me. I forgot about this part of the SSC23:
"...Remove the two jumpers over the pins that say VS2=VS1 on the SSC-32. Run a separate line 
from your 5VDC power supply to each input (VS1 and VS2)..."
So I can do it either way, split sides of the SSC32 or keep it all together and run power
lines as needed.

I will still use 2 power relays because one control system running two stations might 
wind up with one station leading or lagging the other. If I program in the power outs
I'm not out anything extra. Also, as it is a work in progress, if I build it in now
it may be easier than going back and re-constructing it.

As to the voltage drop, on the web link (American Wire Gauge table and AWG Electrical Current Load Limits with skin depth frequencies) there
is a calculator at the bottom. That I punched in the following:
Copper wire//6VDC//50' round trip//.5 amp load, and got the following:
0.83 volt drop\\5.17 volts at end of circuit.

Just explaining how I picked what I did along with being the right size to solder in a
DB15, so you understand my thought process.

Well then, I guess I'll be getting Molex v. DB15 and upping it to 18AWG. Good thing 
I've got some time to work with.

Once again I'm in your debt. Now to orders some parts and try and figure out Helmsman
while I wait for them to arrive.

Even bigger thanks than before,
Sparkey


----------



## HalloweenBob

Again, I was not concerned with the power voltage to the servos. I think you will be OK with that, although I think you are starting with 5VDC, not 6 if you are using a computer supply.

5VDC is the minimum needed for the servos, so if you lose much, you may be in trouble.

What I was really concerned with was the loss in the pulse lines. That signal is very low to begin with. It will reach a point where it drops off so much that it can no longer control the servo. I am not sure what the voltage is for the pulse connection, but it is much less than 5 Volts as far as I know.

Again, you will need to test it at that length to see if it gives you any problems.


----------



## buckaneerdude

I've used VSA for the last 3 Halloweens. I used them the first two times to play talking/singing skeletons in a Pirates of the Caribbean themed haunted graveyard. And then last year we converted everything over to a Haunted Mansion graveyard using a total of 18 SSC32 channels. 

We added a new 3 axis skull last year too that is the more current design where the nod and tilt servos are attached with linkage to the top of the rod and the rotate servo is attached to a short arm bolted into the rod. I have had some struggles with this design. The rotate motion is not a straight rotate because its motion is affected by the position of the nod and tilt servos. By the same token, the nod and tilt will affect rotate. I'm guessing that others here have had the same issues and can give me some guidance here. For reference, I'm looking down into the mechanism with the forehead at 12:00. I have learned to set the rotate arm mounted in the bolt pointed to about 2:00 and then I set the rotate servo arm to hit its stop at about 10:00. This maximizes rotate movement and prevents the rotate from going so far it swings around to about 8:00 and then gets stuck between 8:00 and 5:00 under the nod arm.

Are there other suggestions or "tricks" to making this design work better?


----------



## MonkeyBasic

For help with Helmsman, I created a few video tutorials. Check them out here: Youtube

Feel free to ask me any questions.


----------



## Sparkey

*Protection v. Servo Power Control*

You are correct, I'm using a PC power supply as I'm working at my desk. I'm sure you know you can use the +12vdc as POS and the +5 as GND and get +7vdc (they add algebraically) then I only need to get rid of 1vdc. 
I'm assuming my techy friends can tell me how to bring down that last volt. If not then I still have the 5vdc rail for the servos.

Here is a thought, now that you mention the wire to signal drop thing, how are folks using CAT5 to do this stuff? I see the Captain has a video showing how he hooks his up but what about length? CAT5 solid is a whole lot smaller then 22AWG stranded.

I have a bunch of scrap 22AWG and 18AWG sitting on the floor (thank you techy friends) so when I get a moment I'll use terminal strips and do a test. Then I'll get back and post the results for all.

PS
Thank you, MonkeyBasic, for the Youtube links on "how to", I'll be watching them next.

All the best to you and yours,
Sparkey


----------



## buckaneerdude

I think you can use 7vdc on the SSC32 board. I found this in the manual.

This terminal connects power to servo channels 0 thru 15. Apply 4.8vdc to 7.2vdc for normal servos. Apply 4.8vdc to 6.0vdc when using micro servos. Do not exceed 7.4vdc (measure it) when using HSR-5995TG servos!

http://www.lynxmotion.com/images/data/ssc-32.pdf


----------



## buckaneerdude

Sparkey said:


> You are correct, I'm using a PC power supply as I'm working at my desk. I'm sure you know you can use the +12vdc as POS and the +5 as GND and get +7vdc (they add algebraically) then I only need to get rid of 1vdc.
> I'm assuming my techy friends can tell me how to bring down that last volt. If not then I still have the 5vdc rail for the servos.


I tried once using a PC power supply that I had laying around and I could not get it to power on. I assumed that it had to be connected to a motherboard to work. Obviously there is a way to beat that. How did you do it? I could really use the 12vdc output!.


----------



## MonkeyBasic

buckaneerdude said:


> I tried once using a PC power supply that I had laying around and I could not get it to power on. I assumed that it had to be connected to a motherboard to work. Obviously there is a way to beat that. How did you do it? I could really use the 12vdc output!.


 Here is one tutorial: Lounge | Turn on PSU without motherboard - the 'paperclip trick' | APH Networks Just be careful and remember to unplug the power supply.


----------



## buckaneerdude

What would we do without the internet and our friends here on the forum and the internet? Thanks for the link. That's too easy!


----------



## buckaneerdude

I was looking at the MonkeyBasic website and there's some compelling software available. I've been using VSA for 4 years now and get more comfortable with it every time I use it. 

If I understand what I read on the website, I could have Helmsman run two VSA programs, program 1 play, then stop while program 2 plays. Then when program 2 is done, program 1 starts and everything repeats.

This year I will have a VSA routine running about 25 servos on 9 props and about 10 DMX lights. This would be program 1. After program 1 plays all of the graveyard props and lights, I want to have a thunder storm with lightning effects and playing a different soundtrack with night sounds like wind, crickets, owls and a few creepy sounds here and there.

I suppose I could edit my prop soundtrack to add the thunder storm to the end of the prop routines and then loop it, but having it in two separate VSA routines and two separate sound files seems less complex.

Also, VSA's wave motion feature is not as precise as I would like. I'm thinking that using the joystick in TrackSkull might give me the ability to create more accurate motion for the jaw servo. 

Your thoughts?


----------



## Hooked_on_Scares

I've had fairly good luck with WaveMotion, but not without some tweaking. 

*#1 it doesn't respond to low volumes (your servos won't move much). *
In order to combat this, I changed the audio. Just making it louder won't help much, because you'll saturate the samples (digital overload). What I did was put the audio into Adobe Audition, and apply a Companding process to it - this makes quiet parts louder, while keeping the loud parts the same volume. Then, your skull will respond to all the speech. After I'm done with WaveMotion Analysis, I put the original track back into the routine - since I'd really _want_ the voice to be quiet at some points during the show.

*#2 WaveMotion doesn't compensate for any process or mechanical delays*
So, once the WaveMotion is complete, I advance all the tracks by a few frames until the motion syncs up with the voice.

That gets things pretty close, for me. It's definitely *not* as good as you can do by hand. But you can always use WaveMotion to get you close, and then tweak from there.

- Hook


----------



## buckaneerdude

Hooked_on_Scares said:


> I've had fairly good luck with WaveMotion, but not without some tweaking.
> 
> *#1 it doesn't respond to low volumes (your servos won't move much). *
> In order to combat this, I changed the audio. Just making it louder won't help much, because you'll saturate the samples (digital overload). What I did was put the audio into Adobe Audition, and apply a Companding process to it - this makes quiet parts louder, while keeping the loud parts the same volume. Then, your skull will respond to all the speech. After I'm done with WaveMotion Analysis, I put the original track back into the routine - since I'd really _want_ the voice to be quiet at some points during the show.
> 
> *#2 WaveMotion doesn't compensate for any process or mechanical delays*
> So, once the WaveMotion is complete, I advance all the tracks by a few frames until the motion syncs up with the voice.
> 
> That gets things pretty close, for me. It's definitely *not* as good as you can do by hand. But you can always use WaveMotion to get you close, and then tweak from there.
> 
> - Hook


I have compensated for the lack of dramatic motion in the wave motion analysis by upping the sensitivity. For the last wave motion track I did, I set it at 500% and it gave the jaw movement range I wanted. The problem was that where there is a voice saying a single long sound, like "wayyyyyyyyyy", the jaw bounces up and down during the constant sound. That requires me to edit it manually which is so tedious a task. It would be nice if you could zoom in or expand the timeline in VSA so you could see the individual event bars and weed some out. In those spots, you have to delete everything in that part and make your own jaw events.

If TrackSkull can write VSA events using a joystick, it might be faster to use that to edit the parts that VSA's wavemotion doesn't do so well.


----------



## Deathly

*7volts is fine*



Sparkey said:


> You are correct, I'm using a PC power supply as I'm working at my desk. I'm sure you know you can use the +12vdc as POS and the +5 as GND and get +7vdc (they add algebraically) then I only need to get rid of 1vdc.
> I'm assuming my techy friends can tell me how to bring down that last volt. If not then I still have the 5vdc rail for the servos.
> 
> Here is a thought, now that you mention the wire to signal drop thing, how are folks using CAT5 to do this stuff? I see the Captain has a video showing how he hooks his up but what about length? CAT5 solid is a whole lot smaller then 22AWG stranded.
> 
> I have a bunch of scrap 22AWG and 18AWG sitting on the floor (thank you techy friends) so when I get a moment I'll use terminal strips and do a test. Then I'll get back and post the results for all.
> 
> PS
> Thank you, MonkeyBasic, for the Youtube links on "how to", I'll be watching them next.
> 
> All the best to you and yours,
> Sparkey



In a nutshell, many RC and Robotics guys run their servos on 7.2 volt battery packs. You only need to watch the maximum voltage rating of the servos. Servos are able to produce more force with higher voltages anyway.

I believe the regulator on the SSC-32 will keep voltage in line for the logic. The controller and servos just need to share a common ground connection in order for signals to pass correctly. 

I think 18 gauge wire is a bit of overkill. I know that several people including the Captn have used long lengths of cat-5 wire. The trick to that is to simply double up the wires for the power feeds only, the data/servo pulse wires carry very little signal. You can also run a heavier wire (like zip cord) along side the cat-5 dedicated to power feeds only (V+ and Ground) or even power the servos remotely only bringing back the common ground for signal transfer.

Cat-5 is made up of 8 24 gauge wires rated at .57 amps each, so double would give you better than an amp transfer capacity and less resistance than 22, triple even more yet.


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## Sparkey

*Power Supply Question - answered*



buckaneerdude said:


> I tried once using a PC power supply that I had laying around and I could not get it to power on. I assumed that it had to be connected to a motherboard to work. Obviously there is a way to beat that. How did you do it? I could really use the 12vdc output!.


WARNING 1: YOU are dealing with deadly voltages (120VAC).
WARNING 2: YOU do this at YOUR OWN RISK and I am not responsible for your actions
WARNING 3: Heat sink compound is TOXIC, wash well after using it.
WARNING 4: LEAVE NO BARE WIRES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK, I feel better...

To convert an "ATX" PC Power Supply to a bench top unit you need to know the wire colors, look here: ATX - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Better yet if your unit has a data plate look up the units info.

Your unit may use a SWITCHMODE or Switching Mode power supply and require a load to work. Meaning you are right, yours did need to be hooked to the mother board. Use a 10 watt 10 ohm wire wound resistor (aka sandbar) across the +5 volt supply rail for your load. (RadioShack)

WARNING!!!
The resistor will generate heat. Use some heat sink compound on the widest/flattest side and zip tie the resistor to the metal grills in the power supply case to bleed off this heat. If it has a case fan put it in the air flow if possible.

Then go back to wiki and look at your wire colors to find out what volts you need. It should be: BLACK = GROUND, BROWN = +3.3, RED = +5, YELLOW = +12

I ran my +5 to a switch with a LED for power on indication then back to the sand bar.

Here are a few pics of what I did in about 15 min. Shoddy work but I was in a hurry and it works.

Good luck,
Sparkey


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## MonkeyBasic

buckaneerdude said:


> I was looking at the MonkeyBasic website and there's some compelling software available. I've been using VSA for 4 years now and get more comfortable with it every time I use it.
> 
> If I understand what I read on the website, I could have Helmsman run two VSA programs, program 1 play, then stop while program 2 plays. Then when program 2 is done, program 1 starts and everything repeats.


You got it, think of Helmsman as a playlist manager with the added feature of handling triggering from external switches, contacts, etc...


----------



## Sparkey

Deathly said:


> In a nutshell, many RC and Robotics guys run their servos on 7.2 volt battery packs. You only need to watch the maximum voltage rating of the servos. Servos are able to produce more force with higher voltages anyway.
> 
> I believe the regulator on the SSC-32 will keep voltage in line for the logic. The controller and servos just need to share a common ground connection in order for signals to pass correctly.
> 
> I think 18 gauge wire is a bit of overkill. I know that several people including the Captn have used long lengths of cat-5 wire. The trick to that is to simply double up the wires for the power feeds only, the data/servo pulse wires carry very little signal. You can also run a heavier wire (like zip cord) along side the cat-5 dedicated to power feeds only (V+ and Ground) or even power the servos remotely only bringing back the common ground for signal transfer.
> 
> Cat-5 is made up of 8 24 gauge wires rated at .57 amps each, so double would give you better than an amp transfer capacity and less resistance than 22, triple even more yet.



Thank you for your input but I still have a big concern.
I understand that the SSC32 will run off of 7-9VDC so that is easy from my PC Power Supply.
And I was, from reading all the posts, assuming that my servo (HS-425BB) would be ruined by anything over 6VDC. Looking back at the servo box I read 6 volts which confirmed my fears. And right now I am looking at the servocity.com web site and I see that the HS-425BB (I use it for all 4: nod/tilt/rot/jaw) is in fact rated for (4.8-6) a maximum of 6 volts. So would not a 7.2 volt battery pack burn up or at least stress my servos?

On the wire issue I'm getting really confused.
Yes 24 AWG is rated at .57 amps for transmission (3.5 amps for chassis) if it is stranded, not solid. I was originally planning on using 22 AWG stranded which is rated at .92 amps for transmission. So yes if you double up a 24 AWG you would get over 1 amp but with 22 I'm starting at almost 1 amp and the servos only draw .5 amp hence I thought I would be safe. 

I did not consider either the voltage drop or signal loss at 25' distance, hence HBs recommendations. Doing the calculations, at 25' I will have an almost 7% loss with 22 AWG, the same with 24 AWG so either way I'd like 6VDC to run the servos. This will give me 5.585 volts with 22AWG or 5.835 with 18AWG. What will happen to the PWM signal to control the servos I have no idea, that's WAY beyond me.

What I 'think' you are telling me is to run: 1 common power line, 1 common ground line, and independent signal lines. And to use heaver gauge wire on the two common lines and Cat5 on the PWM signal lines.... Yes? If that be the case I could run a one pair 18AWG for the power and one Cat5 for the PWM signals and be done.

Oww I think I've sprained a brain cell.


----------



## Deathly

Sparkey said:


> What I 'think' you are telling me is to run: 1 common power line, 1 common ground line, and independent signal lines. And to use heaver gauge wire on the two common lines and Cat5 on the PWM signal lines.... Yes? If that be the case I could run a one pair 18AWG for the power and one Cat5 for the PWM signals and be done.



Exactly.


Very little difference weather it's stranded or not. In reality stranded and solid carry the same current. Unless you are running high tension wires with AC current, then it's a different story.

I would think that running the servos continuosly under a heavy load at 7.2 volts would cause them to overheat. In this case you are running them intermittently at various loads and at a voltage that will be less than 7 volts (from the voltage drop on the wire).


----------



## Sparkey

*Protection v. Servo Power Control*

03.09.2010
Well, I said I would get back with a test. First I'd like to say thanks to all with ideas and help. I like the idea of using 18 AWG for a common power set (+/-) and then using 22 AWG for the PWM Signal so I may be doing just that to save on wire. But for those who have been following this thread here is the results. Using 90' of 22AWG on the jaw servo the skull ran just fine. I just left the roll of wire on my desk and tried it and it worked. I have a short vid but I don't know how to upload it.

I created a youtube (first) for you:
YouTube- 3AS-90FtWire.AVI

Have fun all.
Sparkey


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## Deathly

Yep, looks good. You might want to look up Dudedrummer, I believe he used 75 feet of cat-5 in his multi-skull setup and it worked fine. I have over 2500' ft. of older cat-5 (not the E type) lying around so I find all kinds of uses for it.


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## buckaneerdude

I'm going back and rewiring some of our skulls and I like the idea of conserving wire by using a common power wire for all of the servos. My 3 axis skulls have 3 cables running to them. I could reduce that to two if I wire the servos to share the same power wire. I'm swapping out old cat5 solid wire cable for stranded cat5. I'm wondering if I can get away with cat5 to carry the power for 3 servos on one wire or I could run power over two of the 8 cat5 wires if that would work better. I've never liked the solid wire because I've had issues with it breaking. After reading all of the concern over what gauge wire to use, I just wonder if I'll run into any issues with conductivity with the stranded over the solid. Solid worked fine running 18 servos at lengths of 25-40 feet and each servo with their own power wire. We're up to 9 servo animated props with 21 servos and I'd hate to go to all of the trouble to wire all of this only to find out I need heavier wire.

BTW, which wire is power? Red, black or yellow?


----------



## bfjou812

Black is usually neg, Red is usually pos and the Yellow is usually the signal wire. If you look up the brand of servo you are using I think that will tell you what the color code is. Also I think if you check your servo controller it will have the pin designations printed on the board, at least it does on mine,a Parallax board.


----------



## dadgonemad

For your servos, red (+) and black (-) carry the power, yellow is the signal wire.

I used stranded cat5 to carry the power and signals to all four servos in my skull (and I'm using a bucky with 645mg servos which is heavy and pulls more power than a lindberg would). I run a distance of about 25 feel without issue, and even power static LED eyes in the skull.

The cat5 has eight conductors, so you can double up on the power lines (two conductors for +, two for -, and one for each of the signal wires). Capt. Jack had a good schema for standardizing the conductor assignments. 

I can take pictures of my wiring harness tomorrow if you want. I use servo extension wires and splice them into the cat5. Then I have a female rj45 jack at eachend. Then I can use a regular cat5 patch cable to connect the board to the skull. I just made another set for my second skull this year.

-DGM


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## buckaneerdude

Hmmm, that sounds even better. Ya, I'd like to see just how that is connected. I'm guessing that you connect all of the red with red and black with black at the SSC32, then to the cat5, and then split it out in the skull. But then the picture would eliminate guessing.


----------



## Deathly

buckaneerdude said:


> I'm going back and rewiring some of our skulls and I like the idea of conserving wire by using a common power wire for all of the servos. My 3 axis skulls have 3 cables running to them. I could reduce that to two if I wire the servos to share the same power wire. I'm swapping out old cat5 solid wire cable for stranded cat5. I'm wondering if I can get away with cat5 to carry the power for 3 servos on one wire or I could run power over two of the 8 cat5 wires if that would work better. I've never liked the solid wire because I've had issues with it breaking. After reading all of the concern over what gauge wire to use, I just wonder if I'll run into any issues with conductivity with the stranded over the solid. Solid worked fine running 18 servos at lengths of 25-40 feet and each servo with their own power wire. We're up to 9 servo animated props with 21 servos and I'd hate to go to all of the trouble to wire all of this only to find out I need heavier wire.


The only compelling reason for using stranded wire in low voltage applications is for flexibility. Conductivity differences between solid and stranded would be very hard to measure since the surface area is the same for both. The maximum capacity for any wire really depends on several external factors like air flow, ambient tempurature around the wire... If a wire cannot dissipate heat caused by it's own resistance, it will catastrophically fail. At a point where current through the wire is sufficient to generate heat, the wire's resistance value increases drawing more current.... then you get the light bulb filament effect. 

Fundamentals of Electricity


----------



## Deathly

*Wiring Diagram*

I hope this clears up some things.


----------



## buckaneerdude

I have had instances where the cat5 solid has broken where I have joined it to the stranded wire that the servos have. I've always soldered those joints and the solid wire has broken below the solder several times. 

Thanks for the info and the link about stranded vs solid wire.


----------



## dadgonemad

buckaneerdude said:


> Hmmm, that sounds even better. Ya, I'd like to see just how that is connected. I'm guessing that you connect all of the red with red and black with black at the SSC32, then to the cat5, and then split it out in the skull. But then the picture would eliminate guessing.


That is exactly what I do. I'll try to take some pics tomorrow. 

I wire all the servo leads together for the power coming directly off the thee-pin headers on the SSC-32. Deathly's diagram is definately the cleaner approach electrically, but I've been happy with my approach.

I got my idea from Servo wiring color guide - Halloween Forum 

I solder the servo leads to cat5 before punching into the jacks, however.

-DGM


----------



## buckaneerdude

Beautiful Deathly. That's perfect!


----------



## Deathly

buckaneerdude said:


> Beautiful Deathly. That's perfect!


Thanks. You may want to try some heat shrink tubing over those solder connections to reinforce the wire. 
You also have to watch how you strip the insulation on the cat-5 strands, 
it is very easy to nick the copper and it will break at the slightest stress.

For small wire connection like that I use these:










They call them jelly crimps for telephone wire. No need to bare the wires with these, 
they pierce the insulation of the wires and seal the connection water tight.


----------



## The_Caretaker

Where do you get the jelly crimps? link?


----------



## Rev. Noch

It appears that these may also have another name of "UR Connector". Below are some possible sources, though I'm sure with a bit more searching better prices may be found.

3M UR Connector (100 pieces)
GENERIC UR2 19-26AWG, QTY: 1000 PCS, 1 BOX OF 1000 PCS



Deathly said:


> Thanks. You may want to try some heat shrink tubing over those solder connections to reinforce the wire.
> You also have to watch how you strip the insulation on the cat-5 strands,
> it is very easy to nick the copper and it will break at the slightest stress.
> 
> For small wire connection like that I use these:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They call them jelly crimps for telephone wire. No need to bare the wires with these,
> they pierce the insulation of the wires and seal the connection water tight.


----------



## Deathly

The_Caretaker said:


> Where do you get the jelly crimps? link?


I think they are a 3M product and actually called Scotchloks or URs. We always called em jelly crimps since they are basically crimp connectors that have a pouch of silicone sealant inside. When you crimp them with pliers, the teeth pierce the wires and the silicon pouch breaks open sealing the connection. 

Heres a pack of 25 for $2.00:

http://www.summitsource.com/product_info.php?ref=1&products_id=4855


----------



## slicerd

Deathly said:


> I think they are a 3M product and actually called Scotchloks or URs. We always called em jelly crimps since they are basically crimp connectors that have a pouch of silicone sealant inside. When you crimp them with pliers, the teeth pierce the wires and the silicon pouch breaks open sealing the connection.
> 
> Heres a pack of 25 for $2.00:
> 
> http://www.summitsource.com/product_info.php?ref=1&products_id=4855


Yeah I love these things I have repaired cat5 with these before when dogs have chewed through them.


----------



## The_Caretaker

Thanks for the links and info


----------



## HalloweenBob

For all those following the progress here and other friends who just like to see what is happening, PLEASE find the Sindy Skinless fan page on Facebook and become a fan!

http://www.sindyskinless.com

All the pictures of the quartet and videos are there as well as updates as new things are added and happen. I would love to see all my friends there as fans!

Bob


----------



## Sparkey

*Ssc-32 problem*

Hi folks, need some help here.
I've been programming just the jaw movements for my 3AS to get a couple of songs done. I have not had any problem, the system works fine for this. Now when I go back and try to add in the head movements my system keeps locking up. I watch the "D1" LED on the SSC-32 board and it just stops indicating a communications loss I assume. Anyone else have this problem or an idea on how to fix it?

Also, the VSA program slows to a crawl and gets jerky like it can't keep up once I add in the other servos. I doubt it's my show computer (P4 2.4GHz 1G RAM etc.) as I run other stuff like my Christmas light show etc from it.

SSC-32 setup has COM1 at 115200 and all power coming in on VS1. I'm using an ATX power supply which can provide 22A @ 5VDC.

Thanks in advance,
Sparkey


----------



## Dr Morbius

I think the SSC32 does better at 9V DC on th V+ side with the jumper removed so that the 5V DC ATX is supplying only the VS1/2 . Try a 9V battery to supply power to the board and see what happens.


----------



## buckaneerdude

The SSC-32 board manual says that "most" problems have to do with power. I don't know how the board could be causing the computer slowdown but I think the answer to the servos not working properly might be this.

Here's a quote from the part of the manual that I think is affecting you.

"5) This jumper allows powering the microcontroller and support circuitry from the servo power supply. This requires at least 6vdc to operate correctly. If the microcontroller resets when many servos are moving it may be necessary to power the microcontroller separately using the VL input. A 9vdc battery works nicely for this."

Here is a link to the manual http://www.lynxmotion.com/images/data/ssc-32.pdf


----------



## buckaneerdude

There is another thread that mentions VSA moving very slow. This person was using it for DMX but mentioned the same kind of issues with things slowing & etc. I think Brookshire is working on a fix for this. Here is the thread

http://www.halloweenforum.com/halloween-props/89780-vsa-dmx-dimmer.html


----------



## Deathly

As Dr. Morbius said. Definitly a power supply issue. The SSC-32 has an onboard regulator for the logic section. Even though it's a low dropout regulator (supply voltage need only be slightly higher than the output), it requires at least 6 volts input to deliver a solid 5 volts on the logic side. Logic power should be 6 to 9 volts and very little current needed so a battery will do fine.

I have had best results isolating the logic from the servo power since the voltage can dip as more servos are added to the chain. Even if you've got a hefty supply a small dip can play havoc with the logic.


----------



## HalloweenBob

The D1 LED on the SSC-32 is a communication light.

It comes on when the board is first powered on and stays on until you start VSA. As soon as you push play on VSA, that LED will go out and then only flicker as an indication that commands are being sent from VSA to the board. If there are no commands, then it will stay off.

As for power issues, here is the scoop on the SSC-32.

It requires a MINIMUM of 6VDC and no more than 9VDC on the VL input. This is because the board has a voltage regulator built in to take the input you provide on the VL input and convert it to 5VDC to use to power the chjips on the board. The Voltage Regulator uses up about 1 volt in order to operate, so if you feed it less than 6VDC, the chips on the board will get less than 5VDC. They are designed to operate on 5VDC not any less, so anything can happen if the voltage going into VL is below 5VDC.

This creates a problem for people who want to use the VL=VS1 jumper.

Most servos require a minimum of 5VDC and no more than 6VDC. Since 6VDC is the MINIMUM for the VL input you MUST use a 6VDC power supply with plenty of amperage if you want to run the SSC-32 and all the servos off the same power supply.

Any more and you run the risk of overheating and burning up your servos. Any less and the Voltage Regulator does not get enough power to do it's job.

Be sure you are using the correct voltages then see if you are still having trouble.


----------



## beatlerat

If I remember right, the SSC-32 board requires 6 volts, not 5.
Edit - Sorry, I didn't see that it had been replied to.
Keith


----------



## Sparkey

So the long and short of the problem is I need to separate the VL (Voltage Logic 6-9VDC) from the VS (Voltage Supply or Servos 4.8-6.0VDC for the HS-425BB DELUX SERVO) to make this work. IE remove the VL=VS jumper and use two power supplies: a 9VDC wallwart (or such) for the logic power and my ATX power supply at 5VDC for the servos. Sigh. I was hoping to use just one power supply for the whole shootin' match. Thanks to all for the trouble shooting help.


----------



## HalloweenBob

That is correct!

If it doesn't solve the problem at least you have narrowed down the possibilites.

In any case, the board is not designed to run off a 5VDC supply, and that needs to be changed.

I have a feeling it will solve the problem.


----------



## buckaneerdude

One last thing about the 6vdc power. If you are using "wall packs" the amp requirements are higher. I made the mistake of looking at the battery pack recommendations and thinking that a wall wart with those specs would work. I wrestled with poor and erratic performance until I noticed the last line in this table from the manual. Then I went out and got a 6vdc 8 amp wall wart and everything was great. I was using it to supply power to both banks on the SSC-32 but when I got up to 20 servos running weird things started happening. I went out and got another power supply and now power each bank separately with no issues.

Here is a quote from the manual regarding power specs. 

VS of 7.2vdc 2800mAh NiCad or NiMH battery packs for up to 24 servos. 
VS of 7.4vdc 2800mAh LiPo battery packs for up to 24 servos. 
VS of 6.0vdc 1600mAh NiCad or NiMH battery packs for up to 18 servos. 
VS of 6.0vdc 2.0amp wall pack for up to 8 servos.


----------



## bfjou812

I know, I know...........but that is why I like my Parallax boards...2 3 axis skulls , with moving eyes in each, and they play great in VSA..........BTW- That's 11 servos running off of a single board with 4.5 volts powering the servos............


----------



## buckaneerdude

bfjou812 said:


> I know, I know...........but that is why I like my Parallax boards...2 3 axis skulls , with moving eyes in each, and they play great in VSA..........BTW- That's 11 servos running off of a single board with 4.5 volts powering the servos............


We started with a Parallax board but ran out of channels when we added more props. At this point we have 3 unused channels on the SSC-32 board. I'm not sure what happens when we go over 32 servos. I'm guessing we have to use something like Exorcist and bring our pararllax board back into service.


----------



## Sparkey

*Ssc-32 power*

Here is an interesting update on my problem. Just for "grins and giggles" I hooked up to my 2nd computer which has 2GB of RAM and used all of the same settings as on my 1st computer (my control unit only has 1GB of RAM both run XP sp3). I used my same power setup also and got this to run! I still plan on using 2 separate power units, one for logic and one for servos, but this was fun for me.
Thank you all, once again, for your help and input.
Sparkey


----------



## Hooked_on_Scares

Sparkey, great setup for the video - good to see both VSA and the skull acting together!

- Hook


----------



## Sparkey

*Power Regulation*

Anyone ever try to use a VOLTAGE REGULATOR to supply power to the SSC-32?
I found this: http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6233 on line and it will reportedly take 12VDC and bring it down to a constant 6VDC with a max of 8 amps constant. This would allow me to use just one power supply for both the skulls and the controller.
Any thoughts?


----------



## Hooked_on_Scares

I always recommend using computer power supplies. They've got both 12v and 5v, and copious amounts of current. Here's some from allelectronics.com

$6.50 12V @ 5A, 5V @ 5A

$19 12V @ 12A, 5V @ 25A

The only difference, is that with 6V, you'd have a slightly higher top speed from your servos. But they'd still have just as much torque.

- Hook


----------



## Sparkey

Thanks for the info. but I am using an ATX power supply (I started on post 1881) which according to everyone doing the 3AS (3 axis skull) is my problem - 5VDC instead of 6VDC. Seems that the SSC-32 board requires 6-9VDC or the communications get wonkey. I was hoping to use just one power supply for my whole rig but now it seems I'll be using my ATX for the servos and a 9VDC wallwart for the SSC-32 voltage logic. It's not a problem I just felt it would be cleaner to have less parts (just one power supply). Thanks again for the links.


----------



## HalloweenBob

To answer questions...

buckaneerdude... I am using 2 SSC-32 boards now. It's no problem. Just add a second serial port to the computer or use a USB to Serial adapter. It will give you a second COM port. Just direct the new devices to that COM port (whatever the number) and you will be fine.


And Sparkey....

That is a great idea about using a voltage regulator to get a 6VDC 8 Amp output. That would work perfectly. 6VDC is the only voltage that you can safely use with an SSC-32 board when powering both the board and servos with the same supply. I wrote a detailed Tutorial on hooking up the SSC-32 with one supply and two. It is here: http://www.graveyardskulls.com/assembly/Tutorial01.html

The only reason I default to the 2 Power supply solution is because 6VDC power supplies with enough current are rare and expensive compared to the availability of 5VDC and (VDC supplies. Your solution solves that problem.


----------



## buckaneerdude

Re: SSC-32 board. That's good to know! Thanks H'Bob!

I can testify to the rarity of 6vdc power supplies with 4amp capacity. I have two of them one rated 6vdc 4amp and the other 6.5vdc 6amp (one of them was an old printer power supply I had and the other I found at a local Marvac electronics store) I was reinstalling everything into a new enclosure I built and when things didn't work I started testing components. I discovered that the 6vdc 4amp unit was putting out nearly 10 volts. I had no idea why it would start putting out so much voltage so I started shopping for another one. Wow, after literally hours searching, I found one in Australia. 

I don't understand much at all about voltage, current and such electrical things but something told me to try measuring the voltage of the faulty power supply when actually connected and under load. Well, isolated the unit tests at 9.8 volts and when connected to the SSC-32 it tests 7.2 volts. I have no clue why that is but all of the servos, I think there's 28 now, work perfectly. 

I think though I need to go to 5 volt power on the servos and connect a 9volt battery to the logic terminal. I just wonder if I'll have to reprogram everything. Since the routines were created with 7 volts, would running them with 5 volts affect the motion?


----------



## Deathly

buckaneerdude said:


> I think though I need to go to 5 volt power on the servos and connect a 9volt battery to the logic terminal. I just wonder if I'll have to reprogram everything. Since the routines were created with 7 volts, would running them with 5 volts affect the motion?


The routines should not have to change at all since they control the servo position data only. Changing servo voltage only changes the speed and torque, not the position.


----------



## Sparkey

*Ssc-32 power*

Thanks H'Bob! I forgot about that tutorial, seeing it again made me go back through some bookmarks. I think the smartest thing for me to do is the dual power option instead of the regulator. I just have to find a way to make it pretty, pretty GOREY that is. 
.
.
PS.
The wife saw this (YOUTUBE video) as the 'finished demo' then turned, looked me right in the eyes and said: "So you ARE making the backup singers - Right." hehehehehe What a way to get the ok from the finance department!


----------



## HalloweenBob

Just a note to those following this thread who want to buy product from Graveyardskulls for the 2010 season. The following is on the website as of today:

JULY 31, 2010 - is the last date we will be taking orders for this year’s Halloween Season (2010). All orders placed after August 1, 2010 will not ship until November 2010. The reason for this is so we may assist our customers with setting up their skulls and helping them with programming issues. Also, we need time for us to do our haunt displays.

All orders for this season will be shipped out by August 21, 2010.

JULY 4 SAVINGS – For our new rack and pinon skull, we will be offering a 20% discount. This is for the skull only. It does not include accessories, power supplies, or controller boards.


----------



## Growler

Hi,

Thanks for the heads up. Does this include the custom programs. I'm ordering the servos for my second skull in July and the 3rd in Aug. I would like to buy another program in early Oct. Right now the money is too tight with the Sept. wedding coming up. When the 3rd skull is done I'll send you the settings for the program you already did for me.

Regards


----------



## HalloweenBob

Not necessarily.

Depending on how complex and how long it will take to do custom routines, I will have to estimate how long it will take to do the routine.

The earlier you ask me the better, but I am not cutting off making routines on that date.


----------



## Growler

Quick question. Does anyone know what thread count I should be looking for for the jaw rod? I didn't see one in the box of parts I got for my two skulls and I thought I ordered everything. I'm hoping Lowe's will carry it and it's an easy find. 

Bob, do you have ready made routines that you can just change the servo settings on that you sell cheaper then custom routines?

Thanks again.


----------



## HalloweenBob

I don't use threaded rod for that. I just use some stiff solid wire. Something like .044 diameter or close to that. It is not critical.

You just stick it through one of the holes in the servo horn, and also drill a hole through the jaw in about the same location as in the instructions where we put the stud. Feed the wire through that hole and bend it in place.



















The wire in these images is also a larger diameter than is necessary. I personally use the smaller diameter, but either will work fine.

Also the position of where on the skull jaw to drill the hole is different from my personal preference. I took these pictures of skulls off the production line at graveyardskulls. Functionally they are fine. I just have personal preferences witch differ slightly.


As for the routines, yes. I do sell ones I have already made much cheaper than the custom ones.

Please PM or email me about what routines you would like.

Thanks,

Bob


----------



## Growler

Thanks, that's a big help! I was worried I would have to hunt all over at the hobby shops to get this done.


----------



## Sparkey

I have been asked on how I did the programming for my 3AS: See post #1893 on 05-29-2010
and make it look so smooth. 
This post has the video of my skull with VSA visable, on screen, in the background.

Here is my reply for all who are interested...

I assume you have a working skull and everything checks out.
This, I hope, will help you make your skull run smoothly under VSA.

Here is how I do it:

From TOOLS:
1) DEVICE SETTINGS (my skull #1 uses):
NAME .. TYPE ............... PORT . ADDR .... + ........ - ......... DEFAULT
NOD .... SSC32 SERVO . COM1 . 0 ......... 2000 .. 1000 ... 1500
TILT .... SSC32 SERVO . COM1 . 1 ......... 2000 .. 1000 ... 1500
ROT .... SSC32 SERVO . COM1 . 2 ......... 2000 .. 1000 ... 1500
JAW .... SSC32 SERVO . COM1 . 3 ......... 1900 .. 1500 ... 1500

*--->(Insert Edit) BIG NOTE HERE: HBob is 100% right, see his comments below, these settings are "only for my servos in my skull"
you need to know what the settings are for your own skull and set the correct defaults for your unit. Thanks for reminding us all
HBob!<-----*

2) TIMING SETTINGS
Display time in seconds format

3) PORT SETTINGS
COM1 115200

4) AUDIO SETTINGS 
load your AUDIO FILE ----> RE: YOUR BRAINS By John Colton

Now make the VSA work window to full size so you the the most view possible of the:
PLOT VIEW, TIME LINE, and WAVE VIEW.

I click the magnify button twice. 
I'm only working on a few seconds (10?) of music at a time.

I start with the JAW to get the words down:
Make a small, VERY SMALL, start box by just clicking somewhere on the jaw line.
Double click your small box to get the EVENT PROPERTIES and look for your:
START POSITION, put it at 1500 (that's default so it should be there) and
STOP POSITION, put it at 1800 (how far you will open the mouth)

Now highlight (single click) that box and press CTRL-C to copy then press CTRL-V to
paste a copy of it. Now drag-n-drop the copy to where you want the jaw to close.
Double click your small box to get the even properties and look for your:
START POSITION, put it at 1800 (that's where you last left it) and
STOP POSITION, put it at 1500 (to close the mouth).


NOTE: now you copy and paste both boxes from here on to get the jaw OPEN/CLOSE motion.
After you place the copy where you want it you modify it so it looks like the skull
is talking.



Ok so now you know how I put the markers down I paste these boxes where I want
the jaw to open and close in my window that is 2-4 seconds long. Then I make sure,
looking at the pilot view that the SIGN WAVE is showing the jaw going open and close.
If not I manually edit the settings.


Look at your audio file WAVE VIEW and see if you can't find the vocal line. With the entire
view expanded I can usually find it while listing to the song. Place your double
box (OPEN/CLOSE) on a word and spread them apart a bit if needed to cover the word
by use of single highlight/drag-drop.

Now use the PLAY BETWEEN MARKERS feature to look-n-listen to your work and see
if you like it or if it needs to be modified.


How to make it look smooth:

Take the line:
"Hey ya Bob it's Tom, from the office down the hall."
And sing it to your self and you will notice that "HEY YA" are short sounds and "BOB"
is a longer sound so you need to elongate the ENDING box, or sine wave, for BOB.

The jaw almost always opens fast but the word (noun) Bob is elongated so you must
trail it out by clicking on the ending part of the sign wave in the PLOT VIEW for
the word BOB.

When you click on the sign wave (for the jaw motion) you will notice CIRCLES at the top and bottom of
the sign wave lines. Reading left to right the first line has a circle at the
bottom (jaw closed) and a circle at the top (jaw open) {If you double click your
small box and recall the EVENT PROPERTIES you will see the START/STOP times, that
is what this line between the circles represents. The circles let you see the
start and stop positions and the line is the time it takes to do it.

So in the PLOT VIEW, reading left to right, drag the 4th circle
1=bottom (start opening motion: jaw closed)
2=top (end opening motion: jaw open)
3=top (start closing motion: jaw open)
4=bottom (end closing motion: jaw closed)
to the right just a tad. This will make the jaw close slower than it opened.


So it may look something like this remembering that the first 2 words are
short sounds and Bob is a longer sound:

...Hey.....ya.....Bob....
{bad version below of the sine wave view, the "."s would be spaces as this is text msg}
.../.\..../.\..../...\.....
...|..|...|..|...|....\....


I do the same things when I want NOD, TILT, and ROTATE. Put down the boxes (I call em
markers) where I think motions should go then smooth them out by elongating the response
time of the servos both before and after. IE: if the start should be slow there is
a longer ramp to the wave in the front. If the end should be slow there is a longer
ramp at the end of the wave.

Believe it or not this process goes very fast once you get the hang of it.

Good luck to all.

PS...
To answer a few more questions I've added some screen shots: 07.19.2010
and here are just a few more notes.

I've added PICs to the post so you can see some screen shots. How "high/low" the movements are 
depends on your setup for your servos. My JAW servo is closed at 1500 and wide open at 1800. 
Having said that move your jaw servo around and find your own points of interest (close, 1/4, 1/2, full open) 
and write down the numbers for future use/reference. The Nod/Tilt/Rotate will all be different, find your 
points and write them down. 
/
Just be sure you do not go beyond the servo limits or you may damage them.
/

Take a look at the screen shots. The PLOT VIEW will let you see the movement as a sign wave with circles 
at each start and stop intersection. Circle at 1500 (closed) then a line (reading L to R) showing a slope 
(inclination indicates speed {steep=fast, gradual=slow}) the line (this is a visual representation of servo 
movement) peaks at a circle at 1800 (full open) the horizontal line shows how long it stays open, the next 
circle at 1800 (but seconds later) showing the start of the next action (closing the jaw) a line with a 
slope (L to R - indicating the closing motion over time) and the final circle back at 1500 (full close)

If you want to see the actual numbers you need to open an EVENT PROPERTIES box in the top most window 
(above the PLOT VIEW) by selecting one of the boxes {which I call markers}. Here you will see the 
Start/Stop-time and Start/Stop-servo position value.

Finally - BIG THANKS to everyone who has helped me out when I needed it!!


----------



## buckaneerdude

Very interesting. I remember a video of the plot view points being used to get the timing of action more accurate but I've never taken the time to figure out how to isolate the individual lines. I only recently found that I can assign colors to them. I have so many servos going in my routines, I think I'm up to 26 now, that the plot view just looks like total chaos. I suppose I could create a separate vsa file for each prop, perfect it in plot view and then copy and paste the events into the master VSA routine. Is there an easier way to do that?


----------



## HalloweenBob

Sparkey, wow! that's a lot of info there. For anyone who wants to be more precise than using the WaveMotion Analysis feature built into VSA, this is great information.

I just want to point out that if you want to follow those instructions exactly, you might run into problems with the servo settings. Depending on the style skull you have bought or made it is quite likely that your servo settings will differ somewhat from those shown in Sparkey's post. The process is fine, but the actual numbers vary depending on the setup.

For example, all my skulls use a jaw servo whose settings are as follows:

Min 500
Default 500
Max 1000

Sometimes a bit more on the maximum depending on the servo, which hole is used, exactly where it connects to the jaw, etc. There are lots of variables.

Thanks for all the work that went into providing all that info!


----------



## Sparkey

*Is there an easier way to do that?*

I don't know really know if there is an easier way to do what I wrote down. I tried; Making my own voice.wav file for wav analysis and did not like it. Then I tried the joy stick and was not happy with that either. So I started playing with the different areas and found out that I liked this best (I guess I'm really picky on how I want things to look). So I wrote it down as I have not found such information anywhere else. If I find something else I'll post my results. 

On the cut and paste, that "is" a lifesaver. I make my servos different colors and only do 1 skull at a time. This lets me see every action of that 1 unit for the complete song or routine. When I'm happy I save it and do the next skull. At the end I merge them all together. It does take quite a bit of time but I only plan {famous last words} on having 4 skulls and a shorter routine (20 min?) as I don't have lots of folks (at the moment anyway) who come around.

Best of luck with your units.
Sparkey



buckaneerdude said:


> Very interesting. I remember a video of the plot view points being used to get the timing of action more accurate but I've never taken the time to figure out how to isolate the individual lines. I only recently found that I can assign colors to them. I have so many servos going in my routines, I think I'm up to 26 now, that the plot view just looks like total chaos. I suppose I could create a separate vsa file for each prop, perfect it in plot view and then copy and paste the events into the master VSA routine. Is there an easier way to do that?


----------



## Sparkey

*Servo Settings*

Thank you HalloweenBob! It's always nice to get a kind word from the "Master of the Skull"  I hope it can help someone, 
I sure do get a lot of help here. I edited my post to reflect your comments on the servo default settings. 
If you think I need to change something else let me know.
Thanks again,
Sparkey




HalloweenBob said:


> Sparkey, wow! that's a lot of info there. For anyone who wants to be more precise than using the WaveMotion Analysis feature built into VSA, this is great information.
> 
> I just want to point out that if you want to follow those instructions exactly, you might run into problems with the servo settings. Depending on the style skull you have bought or made it is quite likely that your servo settings will differ somewhat from those shown in Sparkey's post. The process is fine, but the actual numbers vary depending on the setup.
> 
> For example, all my skulls use a jaw servo whose settings are as follows:
> 
> Min 500
> Default 500
> Max 1000
> 
> Sometimes a bit more on the maximum depending on the servo, which hole is used, exactly where it connects to the jaw, etc. There are lots of variables.
> 
> Thanks for all the work that went into providing all that info!


----------



## Sparkey

*Variable 3-12V, 2A power supply*

Hey all, I found a power supply that could be very useful to all who don't want to make one from an old PC.

http://www.mpja.com/email/07-13-10.asp?r=297650&s=37

P/N: 9902-PS
Input: 90-250VAC 60Hz
Outputs: 3V,4.5V, 6V, 7.5V,9V,12VDC @ 2000mA Selectable
Specifications/Features:
Enclosed, Benchtop, regulated switching supply. Switch selectable output. Front panel Power switch, Select switch & Binding posts. 
6ft. 2 wire input power cord with 2 blade plug.
L: 6-1/2" W: 3-7/8" H: 2-1/4" WT: 1.1

It's on sale now (07.20.2010) for: $19.95
I have used this firm for parts before and am happy with their service.

Sparkey


----------



## Hauntcast

Phenomenal breakdown off the build. Makes me wish I didn't buy one from Morbius last year..


----------



## bfjou812

Sparkey said:


> Hey all, I found a power supply that could be very useful to all who don't want to make one from an old PC.
> 
> http://www.mpja.com/email/07-13-10.asp?r=297650&s=37
> 
> P/N: 9902-PS
> Input: 90-250VAC 60Hz
> Outputs: 3V,4.5V, 6V, 7.5V,9V,12VDC @ 2000mA Selectable
> Specifications/Features:
> Enclosed, Benchtop, regulated switching supply. Switch selectable output. Front panel Power switch, Select switch & Binding posts.
> 6ft. 2 wire input power cord with 2 blade plug.
> L: 6-1/2" W: 3-7/8" H: 2-1/4" WT: 1.1
> 
> It's on sale now (07.20.2010) for: $19.95
> I have used this firm for parts before and am happy with their service.
> 
> Sparkey


I've had that power supply for about 4 years nowand don't have any complaints what so ever. I bought 3 of them and use them for powering the servos on my Parallax boards, and a Basic Stamp along with a prop -1 and some other items!!


----------



## whichypoo

Need the pfd of this thread *S*...


----------



## dionicia

This thread has been going strong for over 3 years. It's almost to 200 pages. 

Hey, HB! You wrote the book on 3 axis skulls.


----------



## Growler

Halloween Bob,

I check at lowe's and they only had hard wire down to 6g and then I went to Michael's and they only had flower wire and it was like 12-18 gauge. Where do you find the hard wire to do the jaw? My hobby shop is like 15 miles one way. You also said you used. .044 wire, what does that change over to in gauge? I ordered my second servos today so should get them by the end of the week.


----------



## skullboy

Growler said:


> Halloween Bob,
> 
> I check at lowe's and they only had hard wire down to 6g and then I went to Michael's and they only had flower wire and it was like 12-18 gauge. Where do you find the hard wire to do the jaw? My hobby shop is like 15 miles one way. You also said you used. .044 wire, what does that change over to in gauge? I ordered my second servos today so should get them by the end of the week.


Just find a stiff wire.I think I used those little rods that are meant to hold insulation in walls before its drywalled.If you cant find anything lemme know I prolly have extras.


----------



## MonkeyBasic

I believe .044 wire is roughly 17~18 gauge. Got any old metal coat hangers?


----------



## Sparkey

*Jaw Wire*



Growler said:


> Halloween Bob,
> 
> I check at lowe's and they only had hard wire down to 6g and then I went to Michael's and they only had flower wire and it was like 12-18 gauge. Where do you find the hard wire to do the jaw? My hobby shop is like 15 miles one way. You also said you used. .044 wire, what does that change over to in gauge? I ordered my second servos today so should get them by the end of the week.


I have been using large paperclips. Straighten them out and put your hooks on the ends with needle nose pliers, they work great.


----------



## Sparkey

*Error with VSA*

Has anyone seen this error?
"CoCreateInstance CLSID_WavDeinterlace: Class not registered"
I was running VSA and now the wav view portion of the screen will not show the audio signal.
--
--
UPDATE 08.12.10
I contacted tech support and their solution was to reload the program. I did and it fixed it.
Thanks to all who responded about this problem.
Sparkey


----------



## HalloweenBob

No, it's smaller than most coat hanger wire. I believe it was welding wire. You can get it at McMaster-Carr online. Just go to http://www.mcmaster.com and put in this part number in their search bar 8000A85.

That would be close enough.

It is smaller than hanger wire and stiffer than 17 to 18 gage electrical wire because it is steel and not copper.


----------



## HalloweenBob

The large paperclip is a good idea. That should work fine as well!

Never saw that error in VSA. Best to email Brookshire Software with that.


----------



## beatlerat

I have been working with this VSA program about three days straight and I have a couple of comments and a couple of questions.
First, the program is not easy to understand and is not very user friendly. I wish it had some of the same features that Vixen has as far as programing goes.
It is difficult to get the timing down---I wish you could slow down the audio so that you could match the movents more precisely. Even when you expand (close up) the music, it still plays at the same rate of speed. The wave motion generator is almost worthless when music is playing in the background.
I have not found a way to copy one voice to another. The mirror function does not work and it really needs a copy and paste. That would ease the programming somewhat for the others in the group that have the same background vocals.
Some kind of a marking system where you can play the song and be able to manually put in tic marks where you want the words to go. Kind of like tapping on a microphone to the words, but easier....you don't need the extra stuff.
Just my two cents.
Keith


----------



## dionicia

Keith, have you tried Helmsman yet? www.monkeybasic.com.

It might help you with programming on VSA.


----------



## buckaneerdude

The copy and paste feature you are looking for is accessed by right clicking on a track which will bring up a box that allows you to select portions or all of the track you clicked on. Once you have selected what you want to copy, I use control c to copy and then right click on the track I want to paste on. It will ask if you want to paste here and preserve time & track, or paste here preserve time and shift track etc. To copy the same voice track to another voice track, I select paste here shift track preserve time. 

You are totally right about using waveform for voice when music is present. I use TrackSkull for those situations. With a cheap joystick, you can easily create the movements you need by using the trigger on the joystick for the jaw movement. It takes a little practice but within 30 minutes I got it down pretty good. You can also easily program head movements with it.

TrackSkull also comes from MonkeyBasic http://www.monkeybasic.com/Products/.


----------



## HalloweenBob

Helmsnam is a great program, but it does not help you to program in VSA. It helps you to manage your already created VSA programs and gives you more options for playback as well as many other things. I highly recommend the program, but it won't help you with your VSA programming.

To answer your questions,

VSA was the first program of it's type that I ever used. I found it intuitive and easy to figure out. Maybe because I hadn't gotten used to other interfaces first. I think that comes down to what you are used to. Windows users have trouble with Macs and vice-versa, yet both will tell you that their format is the most intuitive and the other is hard to figure out.

As far as adjusting the speed of playback. - You are right. That appears not to be an option. Your best bet is to zoom in as far as you can and create your events manually for the most precision.

If by wave motion generator, you mean Wavemotion Analysis, I understand your issue, but don't see any solution that does not involve some work. I go into great detail on how to accomplish this in a tutorial I produced here: 

http://www.graveyardskulls.com/assembly/Tutorial02.html

As far as I know there is no program of this type that can listen to an audio file of mixed music and voices and train the servo to move in sync with only one element of that mixed down audio wav file. There are some very complicated and expensive filters that can come close, but any sounds within the same frequency range as the voice would still be left and it certainly can not separate multiple voices. You will see the solution in my tutorial.

Copying voice movements or any events can be done easily, but not with the mirror command. You first need to highlight the section of events you want to copy. You can do this by holding down the Ctrl key while you click once on a number of events, or right click your mouse and draw a box around all the events you want to include, or if you want to select let's say, everything in device track #3 and copy it somewhere else, simply right click on the track you want to copy and you will see a menu of things to choose from. You can select "Select All (track 3 only) and that will highlight everything in track 3. Then just hit CTRL+C to copy the events just like copying anything in windows. If you had just copied a background singers jaw motions and want to paste them to another track so a second background singer would be moving his jaw the same way, after copying the events move the cursor to the track where you want copy them and right click again. At the top of the menu, you now have several options for pasting the events to this new track. In the specific instance that we are talking about here, you would choose, "Paste Here (Shift Tracks, Preserve Time)". That would paste the copied events to a new track but keep their position on the timeline the same as the original track where they were. 

If you created a set of movements for a skull that you want to repeat again later in the routine, simply right click at roughly the position you want to repeat the action with the same skull and select "Paste Here (Preserve Track, Shift Time)". This will copy all the events, even events from multiple tracks or the entire routine if you want to the same tracks they were in, just further down the time line where you clicked. While the new events are all still highlighted, you can slide them back and forth in the time line in unison by grabbing and dragging any one of the highlighted events with the mouse for precise placement.

Finally the marking system. If you are using an audio track containing just the words and none of the music as explained in my tutorial, you don't need that feature, as Wavemotion Analysis will do a fine job with an audio file of that type and you will not have to create jaw motion manually. Just be sure that your created audio file is cleanly recorded (meaning as little background noise as possible and that your voice is recorded at the loudest possible level without distortion. If this is not a track that will be listened to later, but just one used to train the jaw servos using Waveform Analysis, then don't even worry about the distortion.

I hope that helps, feel free to ask more questions. PM me if you want me to talk you through this sometime on the phone.

I am happy to help.


Bob


----------



## buckaneerdude

I also thought it was not very intuitive, but like most technical things once you understand it, it seems easy. You've already figured out more in your first 3 days than I did.

I use the mirror and repeat control to take parts of a routine I've made. For example, I might have a short sequence where a servo moves the skull left quickly, back to center, left slowly and then right quickly and then slow back to center. I decide I like that motion and want to repeat it. I select the events for that sequence of movements and then I right click. I tell it to mirror and repeat. It defaults to repeat once but I can tell it to repeat more if I want it to repeat over a longer span of time. When I do a mirror and repeat it will do so and those events mirrored are selected. I can grab an edge of one of the selected events and drag one direction or the other and either shorten or extend the length of the events. I do this sometimes to make the movement look more random and natural. 

I use TrackSkull mostly to record servo movements. I found it easy to use. I use a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro Joystick because it has a twist motion available on the stick that you can assign to the rotate servo. The nod can be assigned to the forward and back motion of the stick and the tilt can be assigned to the left and right motion. This felt more natural than a regular joystick I had used where I had to use my other hand to control rotate. The fire trigger on the joystick can control jaw motion. Since I'm not all that coordinated, I programmed the head motion and jaw motion separately. 

TrackSkull allows you to load your audio file into the program. When you "record", it plays the audio and you simply pull the trigger to cause the motion of the jaw to move. The jaw moves as you pull the trigger so it is easy to monitor your accuracy. It took me maybe 30 minutes to practice the movement. I got the timing down fairly well and learned to kind of feather the trigger to get partial jaw movement. You can play back what you record to see if you like it. If you do, then the next part is a little trickier. This is where you export your recording. TrackSkull creates a text file that you import into VSA. The first few times I tried this I messed it up. But I learned that after you click export, you need to click on a button that says import settings. This copies the settings you set for the servo ranges within TrackSkull. Then you select the browse button. This is where you name the file and set the location for export. Once you have exported the file, you go back to VSA and use the import command. You navigate to the location where you exported the TrackSkull file and select it. If you get an error message saying something like error on event 202, most likely your servo range settings for the tracks in VSA don't match the servo range settings for those tracks in TrackSkull. 

If you try TrackSkull and have trouble, PM me and I can help you through it.


----------



## beatlerat

I appreciate all of the information. 
The head movements are really not a problem since I have found that manually programming them is fairly easy. The biggest problem I have is with the timing of the jaw. I do have a logitech joystick and will practice the jaw movements in real time, I may be able to go back and manually adjust the movement to suit my taste.
The copy and paste feature was not one I found in the manual. I appreciate the info there. 
I know the skull works well because of the program Sparkey gave me to work with. I don't know exactly why I am struggling with VSA, I guess I need to spend more time working with it. I understand the concept, and the scripted movements, it is the timing that I am having the most problem with.
I think that two features would still be helpful would be to have the capability to slow the track speed down to 3/4, 1/2, and 1/4 speed, and to have the markers set so that you could repeat a single section over and over, and have the music follow it (not start over from the beginning). That way, you could work on a particular section, and get it down , before moving on.
I wonder what type of mic you are using? I bought a 20.00 mic at Best Buy for karaoke, and it is either distorted, or you can't hear the voice. Not a good choice. I will give all of your ides a shot. With only 75 days or so left, I am running out of time.
Thanks again,
Keith


----------



## buckaneerdude

beatlerat said:


> , and to have the markers set so that you could repeat a single section over and over, and have the music follow it (not start over from the beginning).
> 
> I wonder what type of mic you are using? I bought a 20.00 mic at Best Buy for karaoke, and it is either distorted, or you can't hear the voice. Not a good choice. I will give all of your ides a shot. With only 75 days or so left, I am running out of time.
> Thanks again,
> Keith


I'm not sure what you mean by playing over and over but you can easily have VSA play only a part you select. There is a icon/button on the right side of the VSA screen that will play just what you have set between the markers on the timeline. If you don't know how to set the timeline markers do this. Double click on the timeline, it's the white bar that has the vertical hash marks on it, you create an upward arrow that is the start point and then you move to where you want to end the part you are working on and double click on the timeline and you will get a downward point arrow for the end point. You can drag the points to precisely where you want them. 

Your microphone recording levels probably need to be adjusted. Open your audio control panel and look for a slider to control mic volume. Yours might be set too high. I've used an old $10 logitec microphone before and it worked fine. I do all of my sound work nowadays on a Mac using the built-in mic and GarageBand.


----------



## Sparkey

*How to Play Between with Markers*



beatlerat said:


> I appreciate all of the information.
> The head movements are really not a problem since I have found that manually programming them is fairly easy. The biggest problem I have is with the timing of the jaw. I do have a logitech joystick and will practice the jaw movements in real time, I may be able to go back and manually adjust the movement to suit my taste.
> The copy and paste feature was not one I found in the manual. I appreciate the info there.
> I know the skull works well because of the program Sparkey gave me to work with. I don't know exactly why I am struggling with VSA, I guess I need to spend more time working with it. I understand the concept, and the scripted movements, it is the timing that I am having the most problem with.
> I think that two features would still be helpful would be to have the capability to slow the track speed down to 3/4, 1/2, and 1/4 speed, and to have the markers set so that you could repeat a single section over and over, and have the music follow it (not start over from the beginning). That way, you could work on a particular section, and get it down , before moving on.
> I wonder what type of mic you are using? I bought a 20.00 mic at Best Buy for karaoke, and it is either distorted, or you can't hear the voice. Not a good choice. I will give all of your ides a shot. With only 75 days or so left, I am running out of time.
> Thanks again,
> Keith


There is a "Play Between Markers" function on VSA, look at the pic I am uploading for you.
-Sparkey


----------



## beatlerat

Well,
Thanks to all that helped. Even though I am on a boat in the Arctic circle, I have been able to get 2 songs done, voices that is, a monologue, and will work on the head movements when I get back home. 
The problem I had with the markers was that no matter where I placed the markers, I would hit the Tab button, and the music would start at the beginning of the song. I opened the music file in Audacity, and resaved it. Problem solved.
Halloween Bob did a better job of explaining the copy and paste feature than the program did. That was extremely helpful.
I do appreciate all of the help. I will be looking forward to giving the TOT's a good show.
Thanks again.
keith


----------



## Growler

Quick question on the rc wiring. I bought the extensions to run from the servos to the board. I stopped by Radio Shack to pick up some bulk wire to extend the ends so they would reach 8 feet. I believe he said the rc extensions were 24 gauge and the best he could do was 22g. Will it be a problem with the little larger wire? I'm having 3 skulls run off the same board this year due to expense. Please let me know so if I have to buy off ebay I can. 

Thanks


----------



## thxboy

*Best Power Supply Configuration*

Question about power supplies: I have my SSC32 board hooked up with a single poser supply (6volt wall wart). I notice that my jaw servo looks great when I run it alone but as soon as I enable another servo in VSA (nod, tilt, rotate) the jaw motion seems to lose power. It doesn't show the same range of motion as before. Do I need to add a second power supply?


----------



## MonkeyBasic

thxboy said:


> Question about power supplies: I have my SSC32 board hooked up with a single poser supply (6volt wall wart). I notice that my jaw servo looks great when I run it alone but as soon as I enable another servo in VSA (nod, tilt, rotate) the jaw motion seems to lose power. It doesn't show the same range of motion as before. Do I need to add a second power supply?


Sounds like the power supply isn't giving enough juice (Amps). What is the Amp rating on it?


----------



## thxboy

MonkeyBasic said:


> Sounds like the power supply isn't giving enough juice (Amps). What is the Amp rating on it?


I think you're right. It's only a 500ma power supply (about 1/2 an amp). I can still use this to power the board but I would love a suggestion on a good power supply to run the servos. Any thoughts?


----------



## buckaneerdude

I ran into this problem on a larger scale. When I programmed a single 3 axis everything worked great. When I set up the haunt and connected the other 6 props, the SSC-32 board would just shut off after running for a while AND when it did run, the servo motion was anemic. It was really disappointing to put all of that work into all of those props and have it not work right. 

When I started to redo everything for this year, I went back to the SSC-32 manual. I learned that the board was resetting because of insufficient power. I was using a 6vdc 4amp wallwart from an old printer I had. What I have now is two 6.5vdc 8amp power supplies. I went with that voltage because I didn't want to have to use a 3rd power supply to power the SSC-32 logic AND I didn't want to have to redo all of the programming of the servos because of the impact of reduced voltage.

That being said, if I was starting from scratch I would use a hacked computer power supply's 5vdc output to power the servos and a 9volt battery to power the logic. I might try using the 5vdc power to power the logic, but the manual says the board will reset if the voltage falls too much. Servo loads can cause voltage fluctuations that might trigger a board reset.

All of our stuff works great now but then there is the issue of how much power you are supplying to the servos. We use HiTec servos and they say that running the servos on more than 6vdc can reduce the life of the servo. There's plenty of debate about on other Forums about how true that is. Most of the posts I found about that seemed to think that keeping things below 6.5vdc was fine. One thing I'll say about the wallwarts I've used. They say that they put out a certain voltage, but when I actually measure it it is somewhat higher. One I 6.5vdc had put out almost 11volts with no load. The ones I use now put out 7.2 volts with no load. When everything is connected, I've measured the voltage at the servo at 6.3 volts.

Here is a link to the SSC-32 Manual

http://www.lynxmotion.com/images/html/build136.htm


----------



## MonkeyBasic

You are correct. That is fine to run just the board. You could either attach a second power supply or I would just replace the one you have with a stronger one. No need for 2 supplies.

If you do use 2 supplies, pull the jumper that's labeled 'VL=VS'


----------



## thxboy

buckaneerdude said:


> I ran into this problem on a larger scale. When I programmed a single 3 axis everything worked great. When I set up the haunt and connected the other 6 props, the SSC-32 board would just shut off after running for a while AND when it did run, the servo motion was anemic. It was really disappointing to put all of that work into all of those props and have it not work right.
> 
> When I started to redo everything for this year, I went back to the SSC-32 manual. I learned that the board was resetting because of insufficient power. I was using a 6vdc 4amp wallwart from an old printer I had. What I have now is two 6.5vdc 8amp power supplies. I went with that voltage because I didn't want to have to use a 3rd power supply to power the SSC-32 logic AND I didn't want to have to redo all of the programming of the servos because of the impact of reduced voltage.
> 
> That being said, if I was starting from scratch I would use a hacked computer power supply's 5vdc output to power the servos and a 9volt battery to power the logic. I might try using the 5vdc power to power the logic, but the manual says the board will reset if the voltage falls too much. Servo loads can cause voltage fluctuations that might trigger a board reset.
> 
> All of our stuff works great now but then there is the issue of how much power you are supplying to the servos. We use HiTec servos and they say that running the servos on more than 6vdc can reduce the life of the servo. There's plenty of debate about on other Forums about how true that is. Most of the posts I found about that seemed to think that keeping things below 6.5vdc was fine. One thing I'll say about the wallwarts I've used. They say that they put out a certain voltage, but when I actually measure it it is somewhat higher. One I 6.5vdc had put out almost 11volts with no load. The ones I use now put out 7.2 volts with no load. When everything is connected, I've measured the voltage at the servo at 6.3 volts.
> 
> Here is a link to the SSC-32 Manual
> 
> http://www.lynxmotion.com/images/html/build136.htm


Thanks to both of you for the great advice. I think I'm going to head down to Weird Stuff and try to find a 5V old PC power supply since I may be scaling the size of my haunt and I'm going to adopt the philosophy of "more power" to cover my bets. 

Now to stir the pot a bit more.....

I have multiple VSA shows that I have programmed for a variety of different props. Now I'm stuck with combining the VSA files into a single long show (which will make it difficult to edit). Is there a way that multiple VSA files can be run without having to make a monster VSA file?


----------



## buckaneerdude

One huge file is a bit scary but that's what I decided to do. I can get away with it because we really run one show and we're now using all 32 servo terminals on the SSC-32 board. VSA allows you to address up to a total of 128 channels and with the DMX stuff we've added for this year I think we might have a couple of channels unused. I backup often and keep copies of the VSA files I make on 4 different devices. 

I found that working with one big file isn't all that difficult. This year we're adding a new prop to run at the beginning of our show. I was worried about how I would insert him and thought about running a separate VSA file that would then activate the other VSA file. There are programs that will do that but I decided rather than learn a new program, I'd try inserting him in the beginning of the existing VSA program. 

First I backed up everything. I edited in the new soundtrack for the new prop into the old soundtrack. That was pretty easy. I then imported that new soundtrack into VSA and marked where the old routine kicked in. Then I selected "all" of the tracks. I cut the tracks (control X) and then right clicked on my mark and selected "paste here, preserve tracks, shift time". When it finally actually pasted everything, I played that part and checked the jaw sync. It was off. I selected all and shifted it until I got the jaw sync right. It took me a while because the computer I use is fairly old and I think it only has 512mb of memory. Then I built the routines for our new prop. The whole process took me maybe an hour.


----------



## MonkeyBasic

thxboy said:


> Thanks to both of you for the great advice. I think I'm going to head down to Weird Stuff and try to find a 5V old PC power supply since I may be scaling the size of my haunt and I'm going to adopt the philosophy of "more power" to cover my bets.
> 
> Now to stir the pot a bit more.....
> 
> I have multiple VSA shows that I have programmed for a variety of different props. Now I'm stuck with combining the VSA files into a single long show (which will make it difficult to edit). Is there a way that multiple VSA files can be run without having to make a monster VSA file?


Why yes there is, click my banner and checkout Helmsman. Let me know if you have any questions.


----------



## buckaneerdude

I think I'll need to move to Helmsman if we add any more props. Nelson, do I remember right that I can connect another SSC-32 board and using a separate port and effectively double my capacity? Helmsman would work for that wouldn't it?


----------



## MonkeyBasic

buckaneerdude said:


> I think I'll need to move to Helmsman if we add any more props. Nelson, do I remember right that I can connect another SSC-32 board and using a separate port and effectively double my capacity? Helmsman would work for that wouldn't it?


Yes, you are correct.


----------



## Growler

I still need my question about wiring answered...


----------



## buckaneerdude

Growler said:


> Quick question on the rc wiring. I bought the extensions to run from the servos to the board. I stopped by Radio Shack to pick up some bulk wire to extend the ends so they would reach 8 feet. I believe he said the rc extensions were 24 gauge and the best he could do was 22g. Will it be a problem with the little larger wire? I'm having 3 skulls run off the same board this year due to expense. Please let me know so if I have to buy off ebay I can.
> 
> Thanks


I don't think that small of a difference between wire gauge will make any difference with servos. Some of the servos I have are wired with very fine wires and extensions I've bought from Servo City which are much thicker. I've never had an issue with them. I have also bought the female connector kits and built my own extensions using CAT-5 cable.


----------



## Growler

Thanks for the heads up. I know very little about wiring and electronics so didn't want to waste my money on something I can't use. I got the extentions and will splice the new wiring into it to make the 8 feet. Otherwise the laptop would have to be right behind their heads using just the one board.


----------



## thxboy

MonkeyBasic said:


> Why yes there is, click my banner and checkout Helmsman. Let me know if you have any questions.



That is perfect! Just what I was looking for. I feel like that was a set-up though!!!
I'll play with it tonight.Thanks again.


----------



## thxboy

*M 3-Axis Pirate*

I just found a 5v dc / 2.5 amp power supply and I connected to my skull to test it out. Fixed my power problems for now until I have to run my other props. 

I put this skull together with some parts from GYS and the Lynxmotion SSC32 board. Once I finish refining the animation it will be going into a larger prop and I'll post a link. I used a honey oak stain for the aging and did the shadow detail with some dark brown paint dry brushing. 






I would like to experiment with fiberglass insulation on the inside now to quiet down the servos.


----------



## Sparkey

*Noisy Servos*

Does anyone else have a problem of noisy servos? And if yes how were you able to quiet them down? 
My jaw servos 'screech' quite loud even when they are not under any load (ie. not hooked up to the jaw - just moving the armature).
If you have a suggestions on how to quiet them down it would be appreciated.
Thanks to all in advance.
Sparkey


----------



## Growler

Yup, I asked Bob about this also when I bought one of their premade GYS. It hums something fierce. When I put in my own servos into the two skulls I'm working on, they do the same. No tension at all, the darn things just make noise. You should hear the noise three of these skulls make together! I'm still working on the full range of my servos to get the range in place but, I think I'm stuck with the noise.


----------



## buckaneerdude

Sitting in the garage running everything, I find myself worrying about the noise the servos make. When we have set everything up outside though I really don't hear the servos. Could be because of several factors, more ambient sound, more open space, louder play of the haunt soundtrack and the props themselves are much farther apart and back from the viewing area than they are in the garage.


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## jimmyzdc

Anyone order a GYS Skull this year and still awaiting shipment? I emailed GYS about it a couple weeks ago and they said it would be shipped at the latest 8/30. I still haven't received anything. I have emailed twice this week with no response. Starting to get a little worried.


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## Redsand187

Just curious if there is any control software that works on a Macintosh? I'd really like to give this a try.


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## Phoenix

Not unless you install windows


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## Redsand187

Ok, thanks, I guess I do have windows 7 on one of my machines, I just never use it.

I searched through here, and I didn't really find what everyone is mounting their skulls to. I'd like to get some ideas.


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## skullboy

Redsand187 said:


> Ok, thanks, I guess I do have windows 7 on one of my machines, I just never use it.
> 
> I searched through here, and I didn't really find what everyone is mounting their skulls to. I'd like to get some ideas.


My skulls are on top of the skeleton body.


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## Rev. Noch

skullboy said:


> My skulls are on top of the skeleton body.


Are you talking about a buckey? This is what I'm trying to do with my skulls. I saw some instructions at one point to use a coupler to join the Buckey neck rod to the neck rod on the Skull. The trouble is that they are different diameters so the single coupler doesn't work. Sadly, I don't have a metal lathe to machine the larger piece down to match the other.

What other solutions are out there?


----------



## skullboy

Yes,A bucky.I just slid the threaded rod down the spine next to the other rod already in there.


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## buckaneerdude

Rev. Noch said:


> Are you talking about a buckey? This is what I'm trying to do with my skulls. I saw some instructions at one point to use a coupler to join the Buckey neck rod to the neck rod on the Skull. The trouble is that they are different diameters so the single coupler doesn't work. Sadly, I don't have a metal lathe to machine the larger piece down to match the other.
> 
> What other solutions are out there?


I ran into issues where I had 5/16 rods to mate to 1/4 rods. I got couplers from McMaster that solved my problem. Often I get stuff I order from them the next day too!

Here is a link to the page where the rod couplers are. The "reducing" coupling nuts are a little further down the page.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#threaded-rod-coupling-nuts/=8zkkuc


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## lorod

buckaneerdude, thank you for the info and link! I was just finished my GYS skull and was starting to have the same problem.

Thanks.


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## Redsand187

Does anyone know where I can find some audio files to use at the entrance of my path? I'm not very creative that way, so making my own will be a pain.


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## shadowopal

Well, there's always Disney's Haunted Mansion track. If you're looking for something more specific, You'll have to elaborate a bit. But, Chris Baker does some good voiceover works.
http://www.discountvoiceovers.com/PreproducedVO.htm


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## skullboy

LIke ^^^^ said.I used Haunted Mansion welcome.


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## Redsand187

Alright, on to more questions. Searching through here, it looks like you can use CAT5 to run the signals to the servos. My question is how long of a run is okay. I'm thinking about a 75 foot run, with separate power wire. I just don't want to have any problems with signal loss or interference. I'd prefer this because I don't want to build a secure box to safely store my laptop in at the prop location. (It's sort of space limited, and I'd prefer keeping in the house if all possible)


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## Phoenix

The longer the cable the more trouble you are asking for... with good cable in a noise free setting you may get away with it, let the signal cable cross over an AC cable or run anywhere near inductive sources then you wont.

Ideally PWM signal cables should be as short as possible, you wont get any real signal protection using CAT5, PWM signals are the wrong type.

You could mount your board nearer, then run a serial cable between the laptop and board, but you need to bear in mind that the maximum length of RS232 serial cables is 75 feet, so again you are looking for trouble.

The best/easiest way to achieve your goal is to use DMX, because DMX is based on an RS485 protocal then you get up to 1000', you would of course have to use a DMX servo control board and need a DMX converter.

another alternative is RS232 over Ethernet, but that requires even more hardware and unless you were trying to build an Ethernet control infrastucture its probably unlikely to payoff.


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## Rev. Noch

I agree with Phoenix, I think that DMX is likely the way to go with this. If you are needing a cable run longer than about 10' DMX in my experience is the most reliable. 

I'm assuming that you are already running something like VSA to program the skulls which can already handle DMX. What you need to do now is, hook yourself up with an Enttec DMX Open, a 5->3 pin DMX adaptor (www.enttec.com), some Cat5 cable and XLR male/female connectors from www.monoprice.com, and a Medusa DMX haunt controller from Hooked_On_Scares. That's the cheapest/easiest way I can think of to get into DMX and to control a 3-axis with it.

DMX is so incredibly expandable, you will be hard pressed to ever out grow it. Cable lengths to each device can be so long that will not be a problem either. All that you will have to do is run Interface, electrical, and (if you have pneumatics), air to each prop location and you're good to go.


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## buckaneerdude

I really respect the Rev and Phoenix. I've seen what they and others have said about signal degradation and interference and the like but I haven't experienced it. We have 32 servos running in 8 props. I have a stranded cat5 cable running to each prop. The cable carries both servo signal and power. Power goes over 4 wires and the servo signals use the other 4. Each cable is about 40 feet long and I have tested one prop with two 50' cables joined with a cat5 coupler. Every time I have experienced something that at first I thought was interference it turned out to be an issue where the cat5 is wired to the servos. After re-soldering the "interference" disappeared. And crossing over? Well the cat5 cables were all in a big pile with DMX and AC power cords. 

I have had these props out since February programming and testing them and I just haven't had problems. Here is a video of some most of the props where I experimented with the DMX lights. Keep in mind, all of the wires are crossing everywhere or in a pile.


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## Sparkey

*Length of cable*

I had this same question back in March so I did a test (see post #1863 dated 03-09-2010) there is a video also. 
Using 90' of 22AWG on the jaw servo the skull ran just fine.
Best of luck.
Sparkey




Redsand187 said:


> Alright, on to more questions. Searching through here, it looks like you can use CAT5 to run the signals to the servos. My question is how long of a run is okay. I'm thinking about a 75 foot run, with separate power wire. I just don't want to have any problems with signal loss or interference. I'd prefer this because I don't want to build a secure box to safely store my laptop in at the prop location. (It's sort of space limited, and I'd prefer keeping in the house if all possible)


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## Phoenix

I'm not really surprised that it works, but my point still stands, there is a difference between what you should do and what you can get away with, and the more things you try and get away with, then the more trouble you are asking for.

My own experiences of this has usually been with everything working fine during build and testing yet when I put the whole haunt together then strange things start happening, and at showtime is when I can least afford to spend time debugging a communication problem.

Its not just home enthusiasts who have these problems, Ive recently been working in a hospital on the emergency power system... you would expect these guys to get it right...right?...wrong!!!, in standby and testing everything worked fine, but when there is a genuine power outtage it kills the control system network...200 hours of diagnostic work later and Ive fixed the problem....cause INCORRECT CABLES!!


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## buckaneerdude

I guess I'll find out for sure when we set everything up on the site but I've spent many many hours since February working with this setup, programming and testing and it just works very well. 

As far as the limit for using CAT5 cable, I've tried 2 50' lengths joined by a CAT5 coupler on a 3axis skull and noticed ZERO difference in performance over the regular 40ft that I usually have it connected to.


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## Redsand187

Cool, when you run just a single power and ground wire, how to you split them off to each servo cleanly? I don't want a crazy rats nest. Also, are you using only the power and ground from one servo output on the board, or linking all of them at the board to one wire, and then splitting out again them back at the skull?


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## buckaneerdude

I take the white/brown and the white/orange wires and wire them together for positive power. In the skull, all of the positive power wires for the servos are soldered to the joined white/brown and the white/orange wires. The blue/white and green/white wires are joined and connected to the negative wires to the servos. I use the 4 solid color wires for the signal to servos. I use brown for jaw, blue for rotate, green for tilt and orange for nod. I also tap into the power in the skulls to power LED's in the eyes. 

So the inside of the skulls is not particularly beautiful but it works. Where the SSC-32 board is mounted is what I would call more of a rats nest. Here's a pic of how I did the SSC-32 board, power adaptors and Cat5 connections.


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## buckaneerdude

On another note, I'm wondering if this device might work for minimizing the distance of props to the controller board and maximizing the distance between the controller board and the computer. It uses a sender and a receiver to transmit RS-232 signals over a Cat5/6 cable up to 1000' long.











Amazon.com: Gefen EXT-RS232 RS232 Extender: Electronics


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## Sparkey

*control box*

Buckaneerdude, your control box looks great - real nice job!


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## Growler

I'm hoping you guys can help me. Finally back from the wedding and trying to get the servos to work on my 2nd and 3rd skulls. The first one that I bought pre put together works like a charm. I went through and redid all the settings last year and it works. Now I'm trying to do the 2nd and 3rd with no results. The skulls move cleanly when the power is off but, when I plug them in, they are frozen. I've tried different settings and run the servo settings but, they don't move. I hear them humming though there is no response from them at all. Any suggestions? Oh, I also checked all the wiring and they are plugged in snuggly and all the connections are tight. I'm using one ssc card to run three skulls.


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## jeremydbrooks

Off topic, but OMG! I remember reading this thread two years ago, and it's still alive! Do we get coupons for graveyardskulls when the hit count breaks 250k ;-)


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## skullboy

Growler said:


> I'm hoping you guys can help me. Finally back from the wedding and trying to get the servos to work on my 2nd and 3rd skulls. The first one that I bought pre put together works like a charm. I went through and redid all the settings last year and it works. Now I'm trying to do the 2nd and 3rd with no results. The skulls move cleanly when the power is off but, when I plug them in, they are frozen. I've tried different settings and run the servo settings but, they don't move. I hear them humming though there is no response from them at all. Any suggestions? Oh, I also checked all the wiring and they are plugged in snuggly and all the connections are tight. I'm using one ssc card to run three skulls.


Can you disconnect the links and try the servo alone?Maybe they are fighting each other thru some glitch.Just an idea.


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## Hooked_on_Scares

Growler,
Analog servos only hold position when they have a signal coming to them, so it sounds like that's working. Maybe the SSC32 or VSA settings aren't right, so there's just no animation being sent to these channels. If it's mechanically okay to do so (limits-wise), plug the 3rd skull into the ports where the 1st or 2nd skull was plugged in, and see if it moves then.
- Hook


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## Growler

Ok, I tried to hook the second skull into the first one settings without any luck. I also unhooked everything and just hooked in the jaw without any luck but, you can still hear the servo. I've tried numerous settings without any luck. I believe that I removed the little tab that HB told me to remove it I was using vsa1 and 2. I don't think that would make a difference sine I'm only using one side. 

0=jaw
1=rotate
2=nod
3=tilt
4=unchecked
5=jaw
6=rotate
7=nod
8=tilt
9=unchecked
10=jaw
11=rotate
12=nod
13=tilt

I don't know if this makes a difference or not. What is strange is that when I plug the first two in the heads pop up into their positions but, nothing else for skull 2. And as I said, skull two moves freely when turned off so don't know how it would be fighting each other.


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## skullboy

If for SOME reason one was pushing and one was pulling,that is what I meant.I never had this issue so I am spit balling here.
Have you run these before? All I can guess is triple check each wire.


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## Growler

No prob. with the wires. I've checked them all. Don't worry if the answers sound wierd, I'll take all the suggestions I can get. Something has got to work. This is the first time for me to make one and #2 and #3 skulls are both doing this.


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## skullboy

Got any spare servos you could plug into 2 and 3 and see if they move?Or try the first one on them.(2-3)


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## Growler

yup, I have a couple extra from a remote boat I made years ago. It spun smoothly before I plugged it into the ssc board but, as soon as it was plugged in, it was rock solid and didn't move.


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## skullboy

Dang,sorry I dont have a clue.


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## buckaneerdude

Growler said:


> I'm hoping you guys can help me. Finally back from the wedding and trying to get the servos to work on my 2nd and 3rd skulls. The first one that I bought pre put together works like a charm. I went through and redid all the settings last year and it works. Now I'm trying to do the 2nd and 3rd with no results. The skulls move cleanly when the power is off but, when I plug them in, they are frozen. I've tried different settings and run the servo settings but, they don't move. I hear them humming though there is no response from them at all. Any suggestions? Oh, I also checked all the wiring and they are plugged in snuggly and all the connections are tight. I'm using one ssc card to run three skulls.


When you are saying that the heads move cleanly when the power is off, I'm picturing you placing your hand on the skull and rotating, nodding, tilting and etc. and the servos allow you to move them. Our skulls are like that when they are powered off and when they are powered on, they will not move. The servos hold their position until they get a command from VSA to move. 

If what you are saying is that the heads won't move when power is on AND they will not change position when you "edit" a channel for a particular servo or run your routine then that's different. Here is a possible theory. If the servos receive power they will assume a position and hold it, it will be impossible to move the servos by hand. So, for some reason the servos are not getting the signal to change position. That could be because the wrong port is selected or the wrong type of device is selected. Mine is set to SSC-32 Servo and Comm1. 

Next I would check the port settings tab. I was setting up a "back-up" computer for our haunt and when I plugged everything in, the servos got power but nothing moved. I went to the Port Settings tab and changed the baud rate to 115,200 and everything started working. Supposedly 9600 should work, but for some reason I have to set it 115,200. 

If that didn't work, I think I'd go back to the wiring. I'd also take a look at the jumper settings on the SSC-32 board and the power supplies to the board. The Lynxmotion manual says that most problems people have are power related. If you are using a 5vdc power supply for everything, you may not be getting the minimum 5 volts the SSC-32 logic circuits need. Lynxmotion recommends setting the jumpers to power the logic separately and use a 9volt battery to power the logic. 

Those are my "spitballs". Good luck and let us know what you find out.


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## Growler

Hi,

Thanks for the help. I have already fixed the prob. and yes, it was the baud rate. I reset that. The port was fine. Also, I couldn't get it to read any changes. Actually it wouldn't let me change the servo settings but, I came to realise the only way it would is if I had a bar in one of the servo settngs. Say, Jaw or Tilt. If I had a bar across that screen like I was going to set it to move, then I could open tools and change that setting and it would save it. Otherwise, if I just opened Tools and tried changing a setting the OK button to save the setting would not light up. Everything seems to be working now. When I get the routing from HB, then I'll see if everything works together.

Thanks again


----------



## buckaneerdude

buckaneerdude said:


> On another note, I'm wondering if this device might work for minimizing the distance of props to the controller board and maximizing the distance between the controller board and the computer. It uses a sender and a receiver to transmit RS-232 signals over a Cat5/6 cable up to 1000' long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.com: Gefen EXT-RS232 RS232 Extender: Electronics


I bought one of these extenders and tested it today with a 50' cat5 cable. It worked perfectly. This means that I'll be able to keep the computer indoors and the SSC-32 board outside and closer to the props.


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## wicc_ed

*Getting Close*

OK, so were getting close to the big night. Just got home from our local Haunt. I had me currious about what was going on here. Has anyone actually set up their haunt? If so are there any videos ready for us to view?


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## avila

New to the forum and after reading all 199 pages you have inspired me into building my own skull for next year. But my question is about the servos range of movement. Servo City default servo says it moves 90 deg and if you pay $10 more you can get 180 deg. Is this a gear issue in the servo or is it a power issue that only effect RC models and does not effect the servo cards being used in the skulls?


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## dionicia

Wow. Can you believe how many pages this thread is. Still going strong after 3 years.


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## buckaneerdude

We have 8 skulls now and every servo is a 90 degree movement. My wife, Buckaneerbabe, experimented a couple of years ago with a 180 degree for rotation movement (turn head left and right), but it was really unnecessary. You can get more than 90degrees movement when you use a longer arm on the servo side than on the mechanism side.


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## avila

Has anyone waterproof your servos so they can withstand the elements. I found two websites but was wondering if anyone on this form has done anything like this and if I really need to. What is your opinion?

Two sites I found:
http://www.warcrc.org/tech/waterproofing.htm
http://www.societyofrobots.com/actuators_waterproof_servo.shtml


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## HalloweenBob

Just thought I would chime in again and show off a few of the new videos for 2010. As of this posting, I only have completed a couple of the new videos, but more will come and I will post them here.

These two were filmed at a Halloween Murder Mystery gig for Sindy Skinless and the Decomposers. They were the entertainment during dinner.













Thanks for watching


Bob


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## dionicia

Whoa HB. They turned out great. I like the arms.


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## bfjou812

Gee, as usual I'm left in awe............Great job Bob, again!!!


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## HalloweenBob

Thanks! Here's another new one from 2010:


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## bfjou812

Bob, That is FANFREAKINTASTIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I love the medely and the take off of the songs!!!!!!! YOU DA MAN!!!!!!!


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## HalloweenBob

They keep rolling out slowly.....


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## Beatlejuice

Great Bob, just great.

and the hits keep coming. It's like Jimmy Durante used to say "I got a million of 'em. Ah cha cha cha!"

Thanks for this wonderful thread.


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## Dark lord

Awesome ! Looks like you might have to release a CD for 2011 - Halloween Melodies of Sindy Skinless & the Decomposer's - seriously,.... love the parodies & well done songs & vocals on them !


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## HalloweenBob

OK, I will work on the CD. I think after this year I have enough material. I still even have a couple that I never had time to finish, but the audio is done.

Here is the last of the new videos for 2010. I still hope to re-do some of the older videos with better quality sometime soon, but am not sure just when that may happen. Keep an eye out here for that. I will post them here as soon as I get a chance to do them.

Here is You'll Surrender!






There was a problem with the automatic gain control for the light levels while recording. The lights never actually dimmed during the filming, so it wasn't noticed until long after everything was dismantled and moved. Sorry for the lighting issues. When I set things up again to refilm, I will do this one over too.


----------



## scubaspook

Well three days and many hours later finally made it to the 2003rd reply. I have noticed how folks and websites have come and gone and names have changed over the years of posting. What is funny is that I recieved my lyndenburg skull before I finished this forum. Now I am waiting to order VSA and SSC32. My first question before building is what ever happened to Parlay? Did it get replaced with Trackskull? When I first read about Parlay no links would work for download. Does Trackskull do the samething as Parlay and is it better? I have worked with pneumatics for years and have played with lighting with Vixen and have used the kit74 in a couple of my props and now I have descided to give servos a try. Any help now and in the future will be greatly appreciated. i have copied a lot of info from this forum so hopefully I wont be asking a lot of stupid questions.


----------



## HalloweenBob

Parlay and trackskull are both solutions developed to do the same thing. Parlay is a creation of EvilBob and trackskull is by Monkeybasic. Parlay uses a joystick as it's input device. You control the motions by moving the joystick. You can same your moves and import them into VSA. Trackskull also does all that, but is also set up to take the input from a special webcam (sold separately for about $100.00). Trackskull software is free. I'm not sure about Parlay. It's been a while since I saw it. If you choose to use a Joystick, both should perform equally well and your cost will be low. If you want to go the camera route, then you will get more realistic movement, and you can only use trackskull. This will cost more for the camera.

Remember, you can always program all your movements by hand as well. That's how I do it.

Hope that helps.

Congratulations on reading through all of this!!!


----------



## buckaneerdude

Buckaneerbabe, told me about TrackSkull and I figured I was doing fine so I just went full steam ahead programming everything by hand. Then I decided to give it a try. And why not, it doesn't cost anything! I don't think it took me more than an hour or so to come to love TrackSkull. 

I used TrackSkull for most of the movements on our skellys. For the singing parts of their routines I used TrackSkull for the jaw motion. For the speaking parts where there was only voice, no music, I used VSA's wave motion analysis feature. TrackSkull saved me tons of time and with a little practice, and the use of a joystick with a twist axis, I got very good motion. Let me say it this way. I liked TrackSkull enough to "donate" $100. 

I also used TrackSkull with a joystick to record routines for an animated arm with 3 servos. With the motion I wanted, I think it would have been really difficult I to do by hand. I set up TrackSkull and then practiced with the joystick to get the motion I wanted. After at most an hour, our Hearse driver had an arm with a whip in it that he "cracked" at various points in the program.

Congratulations for sure, just how many total hours did it take you to read this whole thread?


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## scubaspook

Thanks for the input HB and buckaneerdude. As far as how many hours it took to get thru this well I really don't know. I know that last night I spent around 6-7 hours as I was determined to get thru it. All together it probably took me 24 hrs give or take over 3 to 4 days. As of today I am committed to making one as I have bought VSA, SSC-32, 5 servos 1 skull and downloaded Trackskull. If I can make this one work then I will make more so it wont seem like I spent that much money. Right now if I give up on 1 skull it would cost me about $200. As I build more the cost would come down per skull. 
I hope I can do this and if not after reading over 2000 post I see that there are folks out there that know what they are doing and are willing to help. I am sure I will be talking to some of you soon.


----------



## Evil Bob

Use Trackskull!


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## Frankenfrog

Congrats Scubaspook... 3 days....It took me 3-4 weeks and this thread just keeps going and going and going..........


----------



## scubaspook

Well I guess I will give an update on my project. I has not gone well at all. 
The first rod joint that i used somehow got bent and would not rotate either direction. So I ordered 2 more. The next one I thought I was carefull not to extend it to much but it started to hang up even after applying lubricant. Well the third is so far holding up fingers crossed I wont have to replace it.
Well I modified the main bracket the one that conects to the plexi glass and rod end 3 times and I think it will do the job without interferance. But during this modifing process I has first hollowed out the inside of the skull a bit to much and cut out the support hole of the jaw. Well I made a bracket to fix this issue that i caused and upon what I thought was carefull I then cut out the opposite side jaw hole and I made a bracket for that side. when I tred getting the jaw on the newly made brackets I split the jaw in half. Once again after a little cussing I cut a thin strip of metal and placed in on the inside of the jaw and screwed the two pieces together. Now my Linberg Skull is resembling a Frankenstein skull. This skull will be my test model as of now as I have ordered 3 more Linberg and 2 Buckys. 

I have connected my servos in various configuration and I have found it difficult to give it full range of motion. When turning side to side it may look left farther than it would look right but when the head is tilted up it would turn right further insterad of left. I am about to give up on making everything an even movement as one it is getting frustrating and I seriously doubt that any tricker or treaters will evn pay that much attention to it anyway. I really wanted it to be perfect with the amount of money I invested in it so far. I have even bought 3 of those bseball vendor skeletons for $39 each and the skull mounts nicely to them as the main shaft rod bolt slides down the inside of the vetebrae quite nice.

I have VSA and VSA Console installed and Trackskull and this is where I need some help. I recorded my jaw movement in Trackskull and exported it to VSA. The movements are great for about the first 30 seconds but the jaw movents gets off by as much as a second or two after that timeframe and get worse the longer the song is. Is there a way to fix this? I have tried editing it thru VSA but that is a real pain in the *** and VSA seems not to be very simple. It would be nice if the editing features would be simple like Vixen as I use Vixen for my pumkin light show. So once again how can I get the movements to stay in sink during the hole song? I am using the audio format as WAV file and not MP3. The song that I am using is in 1 directory so both VSA and Trackskull is using the same file. Help PLease.


----------



## buckaneerdude

I had this timing issue between TrackSkull and VSA and thanks to MonkeyBasic, solved it. VSA's default FPS, (I assume that means frames per second) is 15 and can be changed in the settings to 30. TrackSkull records at 30 FPS. Since I had already done so much programming at 15 FPS, MonkeyBasic (Nelson Barios) sent me a 15 FPS version of TrackSkull. It was really nice of him to do that and it worked perfect. However, I re-did all of my old routines in VSA at 30 FPS. I had 5 skulls already programmed at 15 FPS but re-did them anyway perhaps because TrackSkull made it so easy and in the end I was much happier with the results.

There is a bit of a trick to maximize the range of motion on your head movement. I found the best results when with the head centered, the tilt and rotate servos were parallel to eachother and the nod servo is perpendicular to the tilt and rotate servos. This can get a bit tricky because when each servo moves, the other two axis also move some. I spent considerable time getting the default positions for each servo set in VSA so that the head began centered, and then I had to experiment with the minimum and maximum settings for the servo movement in VSA to ensure that the servos did not rotate so far that they bound up or passed the effective range of the linkage.


----------



## HalloweenBob

buckaneerdude said it all very well!!!

You can actually solve the voice problem in 2 other ways, but it sounds like buckaneerdude has hit on the most efficient way for you.

If you have an audio file that contains ONLY the voice audio for that particular skull, you can use VSA's Waveform Analysis to create the Jaw movement.

You can also highlight portions of the jaw movement events and slide them over a bit in small sections to keep them synced up.

Those are two other ways to solve the same problem.


----------



## scubaspook

Thanks Buckaneerdude and Halloweenbob for the help. I have not checked the FPS settings in VSA but I will take a look. I have tried recording my voice and using the wave analysis but the jaw movement is not that good. I did figure out that I could delete the tracks and use a joystick in VSA. It is not as smooth as Trackskull but it sure beats putting it in all by hand. 

I am curently charging up my video camera for two reasons. First and most important so I can video what I have so far on the skull so I can show yall my progress and the other is because I think HELL must have frozen over. I live in Alabama where we never get snow and as of right now11:35pm I have 5 inches on my patio. Have to video record it as no one will ever believe it years from now.


----------



## Grimsby

My turn to chime after spending several days reading this thread:
I am going to attempt this with the Lindberg skulls. I have located the template for the lexan, but does anyone have a detailed parts list of the linkage? Or the metal bracket?
I see that graveyardskulls no longer supports the Lindberg for hardware kits.
If I missed that info on the previous pages, my apologies. (just tell me the page!)
Thanks!


----------



## scubaspook

Try this link. 

http://www.halloweenforum.com/halloween-props/62161-my-3-axis-skull-progress-105.html

HalloweenBob has a pdf file on this thread. Start at the end of the pdf for most updated info.


----------



## scubaspook

Okay here is the test run of just 1 skull. I am still waiting for the other skulls to ship so I can make more.


----------



## katshead42

Wow this thread is incredibly useful.


----------



## buckaneerdude

I got pretty decent using TrackSkull for jaw movement with some practice. One particularly tricky thing with TrackSkull's jaw recording is getting the jaw to only to open part way. If you barely tap the trigger you will get a partial opening of the jaw. Even with that though, you really don't have control over how quickly the jaw closes. Where there were quick multiple syllables I wanted represented I had to get the trigger timing so it would bounce between fully open and half open. I wasn't always happy with that though. So for me, in some routines, I used Wavemotion analysis instead. One of the things I didn't like about wavemotion was that I didn't get the range of jaw motion I wanted. That was until I played with the Scaling option. This worked very well. Some of our voice tracks were scaled as high as 400%. Where at 100% the jaw would just kind of bump when I wanted that partial opening I got the partial opening I was looking for.

Buckaneerbabe told me many times that the movements were great and the nobody would ever notice the level of detailed accuracy I was striving for. She was right. AGAIN!


----------



## Grimsby

Thanks for the info on the pdf file. It answered quite a few questions. Now for some new questions: Since I am going with the Lindberg skulls, will the 2-56 ball and socket linkage be sufficient, or should I upgrade to 4-40? Also, do the HS-425 motors work well?
Thanks!


----------



## scubaspook

From my very little experience the 425's work well. I did not use the ball and socket on my skull, instead I used 4 40 type linkages found here
http://www.servocity.com/html/4-40x3_16__nylon.html

Maybe if I used the balll and socket I might have had better movement but I can't say. The reason that I went with the 4 40 stuff is because that is the smallest tap and die that I had and the ball and socket for the 4 40 is not cheap as it was about $2.50 for a ball and socket which meant it was going to run me about $8 for the sockets that I needed. Looking back it might not have been a bad idea since I already have about $200 invested in all.


----------



## scubaspook

I received 3 Bucky skulls today. Boy, now I see why the Lindberg is suggested because the Buckys are very heavy compared to the Lindberg. Good thing I have 3 more Lindbergs on the way also. I am sure I will find a good use for the Buckys as they are well made and I got mine at probably half the cost of the Lindberg's.


----------



## keithheit

*servo question*

I love this design and will be attempting several skulls this year. I was looking at servocity (HS-425BB). Do you need more than the standard 90 degrees of rotation? 180 degrees is $10 more. Thanks.
Keith


----------



## scubaspook

From my little experience 90 degree is all you need. In the neutral position it will rotate 90 to the left and 90 to the right and everything is centered so anymore would be useless.


----------



## Grimsby

Yet another question - using the HalloweenBob template, the front part of the lexan lays directly on the skull area by the eyes, and the rear part of the lexan is mounted nearly flush with the back of the skull correct?
Or is there a better template available that I haven't located yet?
Thanks!


----------



## shadowopal

Correct. And Bob's is the good one. There's are companies that sell the cut lexan with slots for the servo's. but, they are all similar to Bob's.


----------



## Grimsby

great - things are looking good here then. I assume the 2-56 linkage is sufficient?
All I need now are the beveled washers.


----------



## joshua17ss2

I bought a kit for the lingburg skull design and just wanted to post the progress of getting it all set up and adjusted. the kit came with everything but the servos. so far its coming along nicely.


----------



## Grimsby

Very cool! Just curious - where did you get the kit from?


----------



## joshua17ss2

http://triaxialskulllabs.com/webstore/index.php?cPath=1_25 

they might be out of stock at the moment, i dont see the parts kit on the website right now. 



On another note, whats the best way to secure the rod so the skull dosent twist sideways. i was thinking about welding a bolt to a tube and using a lock nut on top to secure it, but wanted to check see if there are other ideas out there


----------



## Grimsby

Thanks - I'm trying to build one myself. I am going to order the parts this week, but the kits are sold out. I'm waffling between 2-56 linkage and the 4-40.
As for mounting, I've seen people us the McMaster-Carr, item #97088A190	coupler ¼-20 to 5/16-18 to mount the skull to the Bucky skeleton. Then they drill a set screw to prevent the coupler from twisting.


----------



## dionicia

They have a great kit. Great job so far.



joshua17ss2 said:


> http://triaxialskulllabs.com/webstore/index.php?cPath=1_25
> 
> they might be out of stock at the moment, i dont see the parts kit on the website right now.
> 
> 
> 
> On another note, whats the best way to secure the rod so the skull dosent twist sideways. i was thinking about welding a bolt to a tube and using a lock nut on top to secure it, but wanted to check see if there are other ideas out there


----------



## HalloweenBob

Those kits from Triaxial Skulls will no longer be available. They were an exact copy of my design right down to the center rod and the "A" frame bracket.

I posted all the information on my design here to allow anyone to make their own skull for their own use, not for them to go into business selling my design.

They removed the copied kit from their website and are no longer selling it.


----------



## Grimsby

Hmmm - perhaps you could answer a few questions I have after reading the tutorials and the posts:
Is the 2-56 linkage sufficient for a Lindberg skull, or go for the 4-40? I saw posts indicating the 4-40 option was problematic due to the space inside the skull.
What washer is used for the rotate (pan) capability? The closest i have found is the 'washer with tag hole' on Mcmaster-Carr. Is that it?
And what is used for the beveled washer on the ball joint?
Sorry for all of the questions!!


----------



## HalloweenBob

I used the 2-56 linkage and never had a problem. There are some issues with the 4-40 linkages getting a little too crowded in there, but most people have worked that out without problems. So either is OK, but the 2-56 seemed to be rugged enough.

These are the exact ones that I used: http://www.servocity.com/html/2-56x3_16__mini.html

I connected them with short sections of 2-56 threaded rod.


The part used for the rotate arm to connect to was a part that I made from a small piece of steel. You can find that way back in the early pages of this thread (Somewhere in the first 20 pages or so).

Anything you can find that approximates what I made will do the job fine.

The beveled washers that are found both above and below the ball joint (or Rod End) I had machined for me by a friend. Also somewhere in this thread, a couple of people have found other solutions for that part which also do the job. Apparently, there is a beveled washer commercially available (probably through McMaster-Carr) that would do the job. Another solution was to use a small band of copper tubing just slightly larger in diameter than the center rod and slide one of those down tight on each side of the Rod End, holding them in place with nuts. I believe that solution was also discussed way back earlier in this thread.

Don't be sorry for the questions. I am happy to help if I can.


----------



## scubaspook

Well I am finishing my third skull. I must say it is getting easier as I go and I am making mods as well to see what works. Something that I have not figured out is how on earth did you folks ever drill and tap a 2-56 hole in the center rod. The first skull I attempted I broke the bit and tap. So buy chance I had a 4-40 bit and tap in the tool box. So all connections in the first skull were 4-40. Well on the second skull I attempted another try at the 2-56. Went through 3 bits and 2 more taps. Dam this is adding up $$. So on the second skull i driilled the hole 3/16 (my rod is 5/16) then I inserted one of those plastic screw achors into the bigger hole and then screwed in the 2-56 screw. It held quite nicely and the 2-56 linkages moved a little more freely than the 4-40. On the third skull I just had to give it one more try since I had already ordered more bits and tap. Used a different drill less wobble ,hole drilled no problem. Started the tapping and slight twist in then out, oil, twist in then out thought it was going to work this time and then dang nab it snap, tap broke. I went with the 2nd skull idea of drilling out the larger hole and for me it seems that any more that I make I will just use that method. What works right?
Question for HalloweenBob- Did you ever modify the plexiglass template? In the original it looked like the rotate servo was moved closer to the nod servo compared to the tilt servo. In skull#1 I used that method and the turning was odd especially when the skull was nodding or tilting. By the third skull I moved the rotate servo closer to the front and it seemed to work better (at least for me) Heck who knows maybe I'm building this thing upside down. 

Next question for everyone. First I am assuming most are using the SSC-32 and VSA. Has anyone tried connecting the picoswitch and battleswitch from lynxmotion to the SSC-32. If so I have questions as I just bought both and trying to figure how to run them and at what settings. 

After I bought the two I found this http://www.pimpmyprop.com/RB4RelayBoardDetails.htm wish I would have seen this first as I could have gotten more bang for the buck. Oh well maybe later.


----------



## gym_ghost

Make sure the thread rod has a flat surface. Use a #1 center drill and drill into the flat end until you get a countersink across the face. DO NOT PULL THE THREAD ROD OUT ONCE YOU HAVE DONE THE CENTER DRILL. A lathe works best, but you can use a drill press. Just make sure nothing moves. Use a drill, #50 and just go in with a steady pressure, about every .05 to .1, back it out to pull out the debris. I use coolant, but any cutting fluid will work. 

Just and FYI, come February 1, we will be selling component parts again for the Classic 3 axis skulls.

I hope this helps?

Joel 
www.graveyardskulls.com


----------



## bfjou812

Scubaspook, I use the Parallax servo board and the Battleswitch to turn the power on to power the servos. The way I use mine is below the default of 750 for the servo is "on" ,anything above 750 turns it "off'. The thing to remember is that once power is removed from the board the relay will go to the previous state. If you need more help PM me and I'll dig it out and make a drawing for you.


----------



## JacobIrion

Im trying to find the post with a template for the plexi glass, skull rod (unmachined one) and all other components for 3 axis skull. I have seen it on here somewhere but unable to find it. A simple all thread rod was used with bolts and brass compression washers. PLEASE HELP. Ready to get started. Servo City has a 25% of sale on must servos!!


----------



## buckaneerbabe

Here is the template for your skull. Most of the instructions for the skull you want to build are at the beginning of this thread. You'll need to read through a little bit so you can bypass all the revisions that Halloween Bob did while he was engineering his design.


http://www.halloweenforum.com/halloween-props/62161-my-3-axis-skull-progress-5.html


----------



## MonkeyBasic

buckaneerbabe beat me to it, but here are some direct links

http://rewindshow.com/skull/Template.jpg (Lexan)
http://rewindshow.com/skull/Template2.jpg (Metal Bracket)


----------



## MonkeyBasic

And thanks for the heads-up on the SALE at servo-city. Time to stock up


----------



## JacobIrion

Thanks guys. Looks like I have alot of reading to do!


----------



## scubaspook

Check out page 105
http://www.halloweenforum.com/halloween-props/62161-my-3-axis-skull-progress-105.html

HalloweenBob has a pdf file on this page that might help when he was making the skulls. Remember that I lot of changes have occured and many revisions.You may even find a to improve on the design. Here is the link to the pdf file. 
http://rewindshow.com/skull/3_Axis_Skull.pdf

Don't it just figure that the servos are on sale right after buying 30 at full price. Could have saved a hundred dollars easy if I just waited.


----------



## scubaspook

Here is a vid of my progress so far


----------



## JacobIrion

Hey thanks for your help. Great Video. Hey where is the thread for the arm movement! Awesome!!!!


----------



## scubaspook

There are many ways folks have made their arms move. HalloweenBob did this one 



 but do a search on the forum for arm movement. My arms only go up and down but I plan on improving that over time. I will post some pics this weekend of my working of the arms.


----------



## ter_ran

*Scuba those look great! I want some of those 3 axis skuills now too! *


----------



## scubaspook

Although my arm movements are fairly simplistic I put some pics in my album under skeleton arms of how I made them in case anyone is interested. I used the baseball vendor skeletons.


----------



## Sadler Vampire

*I've joined the ranks*

1st of 12 3xSkulls.... The build really wasn't too bad. It pays to learn from others trials and tribulations.










My biggest concerns right now are infrastructure related. The successes of folks running Cat5 cabling and what lengths can be run. I know that I could go over the 5 or so forums to try and gleem this info, but honestly...there is a lot of area to cover now to get answers.


----------



## HalloweenBob

Indeed, there is info about that very thing throughout this thread, but it is a lot of reading.

I have found that for best results, with CAT5 you need the following:

Make the runs no more than 20 feet long. Run a separate set of power wires out to each small group of servos. A set of 18 gauge wire for the power to each skull and the smaller gauge wires in the CAT 5 are all for the servo control wires. That has worked for me.

If you are getting servo jitters, you might have one of several problems:

1. The wire runs are too long
2. Too many servos on one power run. (Make another run from the power supply or right from the output pins of the SSC-32 and split up the servos so half are on each run)
3. Isolation problem between the control wires (CAT5) and power wires. If they are run right together, the voltage running through the power wires or any other wires you are running out to your skulls, could have an effect on your control wires creating unwanted 'phantom' currents in those control wires that can have strange effects on the servos. For best results, maybe go with CAT6 which I believe is shielded to avoid interference from other power sources.


----------



## scubaspook

Sadler Vampire said:


> 1st of 12 3xSkulls.... The build really wasn't too bad. It pays to learn from others trials and tribulations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My biggest concerns right now are infrastructure related. The successes of folks running Cat5 cabling and what lengths can be run. I know that I could go over the 5 or so forums to try and gleem this info, but honestly...there is a lot of area to cover now to get answers.


I agree with HalloweenBob info. Just a side note I am currently runnung Cat5 because I got it free and have to use it sparingly. I have 4 servos in each skull (no eyeball movement) so I run 1 cable of Cat5 to the skull. 4 wires are the pulse wires hooked to the SSC32 and the yellow of the servo. I twist 2 wires together on the cat5 and run as hot and twist the other 2 for negative. I connected all four of the positive side of the ssc32 to the 2 twisted pair and then I did the same for the negative. My cable are about 30 feet long and I have not noticed anything strange as of yet. I did notice that this length and wire size did not run the hitec 805 in my arms good at all so I had to run extra cat5 to the arms. So in order for a arm to work I ran One cable is used as the pulse and another cat5 (twisted all stripes together and all solids together) and used it as the positive/negative connection. So far everything seems to be working okay and I have ran this for about a month a couple hours each day.


----------



## Halstaff

Does anyone have a full size template of the lexan plate for a Bucky skull? I found the original for the Lindburg skull but can't find the one for the Bucky.
Thanks.


----------



## bfjou812

I'm not sure there was on for the Bucky........although I could be wrong. Anyway, I've been using the one from this thread and enlarging it a bit to make it fit the skull. I was going through this thread last night and realized I've been mounting my plates differently than Bob describes. Mine have been mounted close to flush with the top of the skull. But I've been putting 2- axix eyes in mine. Hope this helps.


----------



## Halstaff

I do have 4 of the templates for the Lindburg with 1 already completed but I have 3 of the K-Mart skulls that Dr. Morbius used for his 3 axis skulls that I wanted to try. Here's his tutorial - http://www.garageofevilnetwork.com/profiles/blogs/sulltek-skull-howto and he uses the Bucky plate. Graveyard Skulls does sell them on their website for $20 but I would like to make my own.


----------



## bfjou812

Have you tried to enlarge the template you have? In the Dr.s thread he states the Lindberg plates are too small, that's why I thought of enlarging it. If you want I could probably do it on my scanner and send it to you.


----------



## Halstaff

bfjou812 said:


> Have you tried to enlarge the template you have? In the Dr.s thread he states the Lindberg plates are too small, that's why I thought of enlarging it. If you want I could probably do it on my scanner and send it to you.


I'll try my template once I get one cut open but I think they are not only bigger but a different shape. I think I'll shoot the Dr. a PM and see if he has a copy of the template.


----------



## HalloweenBob

The problem with the Bucky skulls is that they are not all the same. They are made from at least 6 different molds, all of them slightly different. To the eye, they are the same, but the differences are enough to prevent the plate made for one from fitting in another.

Also the Buckys (especially the 4th quality and others that they sell to the Halloween industry) are often mis-shapen due to heat, or just a problem on the production line making it near impossible to make a template that will reliably fit in multiple Bucky skulls.

It's pretty much a custom project, cutting the plate for each skull.


----------



## scubaspook

Halstaff said:


> Does anyone have a full size template of the lexan plate for a Bucky skull? I found the original for the Lindburg skull but can't find the one for the Bucky.
> Thanks.


Just note that the Buckys are quite heavier and may put more stress on the servos. I had bought both type of skulls (4 lyndburg and 4 buckys) to see the difference and there are some. As HB said the Buckys are not created equal but the 4th quality are definitely cheaper.


----------



## Halstaff

I won't be using the Bucky skull, only the template. I'll be using the one Doc used from K-Mart. They have a movable jaw and are really light weight. He has some pictures in his tutorial - http://www.garageofevilnetwork.com/p...ek-skull-howto


----------



## bfjou812

Halstaff, Were you able to get what you needed from Doc? If you want I have some of the templates that are blown up to 110%,115% and 120%. If you want them PM me and I'll be more than happy to send them to you.


----------



## Halstaff

I haven't heard back from him yet but I may have a solution. These skulls have a plate on the bottom that holds some flashing LED's that needs to be removed and I'm hoping I'll have enough room to trace the plate from there. I could use the templates you have though to try to get the servo placement holes. I'll pm you my email.
Thanks for the help with this.


----------



## bfjou812

Your welcome......


----------



## Sadler Vampire

8 of the 12 now completed, with a 13th critical spare in the event a hot swap is needed durring our run. Our attraction is opening a bit early this year, ( end of September ) and runs thru the beginning of november. I hope that the skulls can take that much runtime. How is longevity with these servos? anyone have issues after "X" hours of operation ?


----------



## Evil Bob

That's a lot of skulls. What are you using to power the servos?


----------



## HalloweenBob

Very impressive collection. All the wires sticking out of the heads makes them look like their having a bad hair day! Seriously, That's a lot of work.

Are these all going to run on one single routine? Does your power supply have enough current capacity to do that, or are these going to be spread out and run separately?


----------



## bfjou812

Evil Bob said:


> That's a lot of skulls. What are you using to power the servos?



A nuclear reactor maybe?  

He has a freakin' orchestra ....  

Very nice job Sadler Vampire , That is going to really be an awesome display!!!


----------



## Sadler Vampire

HalloweenBob said:


> Very impressive collection. All the wires sticking out of the heads makes them look like their having a bad hair day! Seriously, That's a lot of work.
> 
> Are these all going to run on one single routine? Does your power supply have enough current capacity to do that, or are these going to be spread out and run separately?


Hi Bob,

They are all running on the same routeen... actually many routeens, all sequenced with Monkey Basics Helmsman.

Yeah, My power Supply is a 5VDC 40 AMP PS. It should handle the load. Each home run from an individual skull to the PS is only 20ft and I used shielded 22 AWG Mic cable. 

So far I haven't run into any problems, but I'm still getting all the skulls on line.

Its a slow process.


----------



## thxboy

Sadler Vampire said:


> Hi Bob,
> 
> They are all running on the same routeen... actually many routeens, all sequenced with Monkey Basics Helmsman.
> 
> Yeah, My power Supply is a 5VDC 40 AMP PS. It should handle the load. Each home run from an individual skull to the PS is only 20ft and I used shielded 22 AWG Mic cable.
> 
> So far I haven't run into any problems, but I'm still getting all the skulls on line.
> 
> Its a slow process.


Hi Sadler,

Did you convert a PC power supply or buy yours outright? If its bought could you provide a make and model? I am in the market myself now since I am starting to get servo crazy too...

Thanks!


----------



## Sadler Vampire

http://cgi.ebay.com/Power-One-SK5-4...423?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e798adc7












thxboy said:


> Hi Sadler,
> 
> Did you convert a PC power supply or buy yours outright? If its bought could you provide a make and model? I am in the market myself now since I am starting to get servo crazy too...
> 
> Thanks!


----------



## MonkeyBasic

Sadler Vampire said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/Power-One-SK5-4...423?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e798adc7


That's a lot of 5V juice. I may have to pick one of those up.

Glad to hear Helmsman working out for you!


----------



## Sadler Vampire

MonkeyBasic said:


> That's a lot of 5V juice. I may have to pick one of those up.
> 
> Glad to hear Helmsman working out for you!


BTW... THank you for your Great Product... "Helmsman" will be my savior this season.

Now if I can just get TrackSkull up and running........


----------



## MonkeyBasic

Sadler Vampire said:


> BTW... THank you for your Great Product... "Helmsman" will be my savior this season.
> 
> Now if I can just get TrackSkull up and running........


Please let me know if you have any questions. I'd love to see a video once things are up and running!


----------



## Evil Bob

Thanks for the link SV! I just bought one. That looks like an awesome PS.



Sadler Vampire said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/Power-One-SK5-4...423?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e798adc7


----------



## thxboy

Sadler Vampire said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/Power-One-SK5-4...423?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e798adc7


I just bought one too. Thanks Sadler!


----------



## Sadler Vampire

I fired it up tonight, running 12 skulls with loads of power to spare... a clean 4.98 VDC all day ( and night ) long.

Can life get any better?


----------



## Evil Bob

Well, maybe if it was 6 volts...


----------



## buckaneerdude

The PS $39 price is great, but the $26 shipping is not so great. Ordered one anyway.


----------



## Evil Bob

Shipping to Illinois was only 12 bucks. I think the only advantage I've found for living in Illinois, lol.


----------



## thxboy

buckaneerdude said:


> The PS $39 price is great, but the $26 shipping is not so great. Ordered one anyway.


Yeah, chose standard shipping instead of expedited. Only $13 to California.


----------



## Sadler Vampire

I put in a 13 hour day on saturday, got the power supply and power distribution box built, and 11 of the 12 skulls mounted and on line. 

Loaded a few songs and created some simple routeens thru Waveform. I must have some cross talk issues as some of the servos are a bit "Jittery" .

Troubleshooting is always fun. That will be the next phase. I did shoot a really crappy video with my cell phone. but its too crappy to upload. Maybe within the month I'll have something to share, either via youtube or facebook video.

Bart


----------



## Sadler Vampire

Just a heads up to anyone who may have thought about copying my wiring design, .... I discovered where a major portion of the crosstalk was comming from. 

I was using the Cowlacious 'Cave Eyes" board to give my skulls eyes a random bliking effect, 

Well that is what was causing the crosstalk. Once I tool that board off line, the system settled in. 

Because the Cave Eyes signal ran in a twisted pair along with the servo pulse signals in the CAT5 cable....it must have crreated the crosstalk.

If I were to run a seperate ( third ) line to each skull, that could solve the problem. I just don't know if it is worth it for this year.




Sadler Vampire said:


> I put in a 13 hour day on saturday, got the power supply and power distribution box built, and 11 of the 12 skulls mounted and on line.
> 
> Loaded a few songs and created some simple routeens thru Waveform. I must have some cross talk issues as some of the servos are a bit "Jittery" .
> 
> Troubleshooting is always fun. That will be the next phase. I did shoot a really crappy video with my cell phone. but its too crappy to upload. Maybe within the month I'll have something to share, either via youtube or facebook video.
> 
> Bart


----------



## bs2000

So how to make the 2-axis RGB Eyes?


----------



## jimmyzdc

That's a nice PS. Can anyone refresh my memory and tell me how many amps are drawn per servo (425BB)? I think I'm just gonna use an old power supply I cannibalized from a PC. But I need to add up the amperage and make sure I have enough. If not I may just pick this up.



Sadler Vampire said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/Power-One-SK5-4...423?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e798adc7


----------



## VinceMacPaul

Current Drain (4.8V): 8mA/idle and 150mA no load operating
Current Drain (6.0V): 8.8mA/idle and 180mA no load operating
from the spec sheet.....if that helps any.


----------



## bfjou812

I've heard as much as 1 amp under full load. I've never checked it out though . I use a 6 volt 2 amp power supply for 1- 3 axis w/2 axis eyes and 1- 3 axis w/1 axis eyes and both are bucky skulls that weigh more than the Lindberghs, with no problems.


----------



## Sadler Vampire

I was told at least a half amp per servo.


----------



## spinman1949

*Sadler*

Sounds about right. Oh and what is the scoop with those headers you found. Will they clear the components on the inside of the ssc32 board ?

Those really look like a great solution to wire a control box. My RJ45 boards are OK, but still the cat 5 has to make it all the way to the board.


----------



## Sadler Vampire

I should have some word for you guys very soon, The Company we're working with is sending out (2) types of samples, and they should be here in the next few days. I'll post pics too. 



spinman1949 said:


> Sounds about right. Oh and what is the scoop with those headers you found. Will they clear the components on the inside of the ssc32 board ?
> 
> Those really look like a great solution to wire a control box. My RJ45 boards are OK, but still the cat 5 has to make it all the way to the board.


----------



## Sadler Vampire

*Answer...*

For the latest developements on the SSC-32 Header Pin Connectors I've been researching, goto : http://www.halloweenforum.com/1096468-post101.html

on the Electronic/Software: Wiring for Control Box thread.

"Black Heart" Bart a.k.a. Sadler Vampire



spinman1949 said:


> Sounds about right. Oh and what is the scoop with those headers you found. Will they clear the components on the inside of the ssc32 board ?
> 
> Those really look like a great solution to wire a control box. My RJ45 boards are OK, but still the cat 5 has to make it all the way to the board.


----------



## JacobIrion

Is everyone using the hitec 425 for all movements? What about for mouth movement?


----------



## dionicia

Mouth movements I use the Hitec 425. For the Nod though, I use a Hitec 425hb because it has more work to do holding up the head.


----------



## MonkeyBasic

I use Hitec HS-425BB for 3-axis movement and the Hitec HS-81 for jaw movement.

The HS-81 is a micro servo that is faster and less noisy.


----------



## bfjou812

I'm in the process of building 2 more skulls and going to try the Hitec HS-225mg. It's a little more pricey and has metal gears , but that won't be a problem for my use. I have used a HS55 micro for the jaw on a 3 axis bucky , so far so good..............


----------



## Growler

I'm using the 645mg all the way around. Overkill for the jaw but, got a good price on a batch.


----------



## beatlerat

If anyone is interested....I saw this on eBay. It brings the price of a HS-425BB down to just over 7.50.
http://cgi.ebay.com/HITEC-HS-425BB-...Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2565f3704d
beatlerat


----------



## dionicia

I've purchased from him twice. Very good deal.


----------



## JacobIrion

What is the best brand cable to go from usb to parellel port for the scc32 controller?


----------



## VinceMacPaul

Thanks for the heads up on the HS-425BB eBay link beatlerat. I just purchased a case from him/her. I needed 12 for 3 skulls and after shopping around and shipping cost, I ended up with 6.87 free servos with that deal. Thanks again.


----------



## fravak

I bought a case of servos from that same person a couple of weeks ago also. It's a gear deal.


----------



## HalloweenBob

Hey, sorry to break into the discussion on servos with something else, but there have been a bunch of people who wanted CDs of the songs I used for my quartet over the years.

I will be doing that this year. For more info, check this thread:

http://www.halloweenforum.com/halloween-music/77758-halloween-carols-other-songs.html


----------



## Sparkey

*Where to get skulls?*

Hi there all. Were do you folks get your skulls now that http://www.myatomic.com/ has never come back?


----------



## VinceMacPaul

Thanks for the link Bob.
Sparkey. I get mine from http://www.buy.com/prod/lindberg-1-.../q/sellerid/24836837/loc/20269/219128537.html. $18.41 to your door. They only allow 1 per order. I ordered my first one last month and just got my second one today. Both took 6 days for shipping.


----------



## Sparkey

VinceMacPaul said:


> Thanks for the link Bob.
> Sparkey. I get mine from http://www.buy.com/prod/lindberg-1-.../q/sellerid/24836837/loc/20269/219128537.html. $18.41 to your door. They only allow 1 per order. I ordered my first one last month and just got my second one today. Both took 6 days for shipping.


Big thanks for info on finding Lindberg Skulls!
Sparkey


----------



## Sadler Vampire

My progress.......

Thought I'd show a little of my 3 axis project..

This youtube video is meant as a training vid for volunteers that will be working in my zone of our haunted attraction. For that reason the video does not exclusively show my skullys, but you see what we've got cooking.

To back up, I am involved with a non-profit haunted attraction here in southeastern Wisconsin ( Oconomowoc...which is like half way between Milwaukee and our capital, Madison )

This marks our third year of this attraction. Up to now I've been donting time and my entire collection of home haunt stuff, as well as building plenty of new stuff. 

This year I made the committment and built: 
(12) 3-axis skulls with a critical spare, 
built, then destroyed and rebuilt a command center(That can be found on another thread on this forum.).http://www.halloweenforum.com/halloween-props/103704-wiring-control-box.html 
Upgraded to the latest Brookshire Rev ( only to have another one released a month later ), 
Loaded Monkey basics Helmsman and got to it.

As for the theme of my skulls, well it follows the theme of our haunted Attraction, Haunted High. HH is in fact the now abandoned, original High School in town. The School District allows us to use the school while they try to find a buyer. Not an easy task in this market, and for such a poor structure.

This year as one of the haunt designer/zone leaders, I have for my portion of the haunt....... wait for it...............the 600 seat theater/auditoruim. Too big a space to be spooky, so we decided to make this part of the haunt entertaining.

My skulls are parodying the characters from the popular tweens show.... GLEE. 
Our 3-axis show is based off the Glee episode from last October when the cast did Rocky Horror. Our show runs 35 minutes, and contains not only the songs, but a lot of the dialogue from that episode too. Glee fans will go nuts. Preliminairy response so far has been off the charts. We're very pleased with the results.

What this Video is intended for is to train the volunteer usherettes how to do the Time Warp dance, as our show will be somewhat audience participation friendly (a nod to RHPS fans)....so here is the video.

Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/user/woodlandboy22#p/u/6/rqNfN5Wo0zs


----------



## Haunted Wolf

Nice work!!! That is a bunch of skulls! I would love to get that many to play with!.....someday!


----------



## buckaneerdude

That looks great! I've been wondering what you were doing with so many skulls. I'm curious how long it took to set the head and jaw movements in 12 3axis skulls over a 35 minute show.


----------



## Sadler Vampire

buckaneerdude said:


> That looks great! I've been wondering what you were doing with so many skulls. I'm curious how long it took to set the head and jaw movements in 12 3axis skulls over a 35 minute show.


Is it ever finished?... Im sure we have hundreds of hours in programing.

[added] 

I made multiple copies of eack sound tract and did a lot of editing of the music to drop out as much background as possible, as well as made different tracts of the same piece for each character. All before running them thru Waveform. But the effort paid off. made for a great starting point for editing.

I am hoping that the major clean up on the programing will be done this weekend. That will give us 2 plus weeks of breathing room till opening night ( Oct 1st )

actually our VIP night and check out with the fire Dept is Sept 27th... So we will be ready. We started in March for cripes sake, I hope we're ready by now... LOL


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## Sadler Vampire

The Video was shot by a young volunteer, so I cannot help the jittery picture. I have 4 videos total, just a taste of our show.


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## HalloweenBob

Nice work!


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## Sadler Vampire

TY Robert... I owe it all to you and your early work and postings on this site. These skullies are your grandchildren.. and they have been performing flawlessly durring the run of our non profit attraction. You would be proud.


----------



## HalloweenBob

If anyone is interested, I started a thread in Tutorials and Step by Steps, going through all the steps you need to take to create your own routine, whether it be an original song or using an original one. Same principles apply for non-song spoken word, but not as complicated. It is still in progress and will eventually cover the process all the way from getting an idea to editing your final video.

You can see what's there so far by going here:
http://www.halloweenforum.com/tutor...oducing-audio-3-axis-skulls-vsa-routines.html


----------



## VinceMacPaul

Thanks so much Bob. Your efforts are very much appreciated. You are the master Sir.


----------



## shadowopal

Thanks for taking the time for all this. It's a huge help.


----------



## gumba

that is a great tutorial. thank you!


----------



## HalloweenBob

Thank you all. I will continue to add to it as I have time. 

In the meantime, please check out the Black Friday specials on Skulls if you are interested. Look here:

http://www.halloweenforum.com/annou...lls-com-black-friday-special.html#post1216254


----------



## HalloweenBob

*Heads up!*

I just started a thread in the general Halloween section that I would love for you to look at.

I am trying to help a singer that did a couple Skeleton Quartet songs for me get a start in the business through Kickstart.

Please take a look here: http://www.halloweenforum.com/general-halloween/115438-help-talented-friend-please.html

Thanks,
HalloweenBob


----------



## beatlerat

I have resurrected my quartet after sitting on the shelf for two years. I have enjoyed building (finishing) these once again and want to thank Halloween Bob for the ideas expressed in this thread to make it possible. I did run into a couple of snags, one that I was able to overcome and the other is still an issue.
First, I did not want 12 wires coming out of each skull, so I designed a DIY PC board that allows me to run CAT5 from the SSC32 to the skulls and it works perfectly. I run pin header cables from the SSC32 to the RJ45 breakout board, CAT5 to the skulls, and then breakout the wires again to Servo headers. The copper traces are attached. Pins 1 and 2 are ground, 3 and 4 are power, and 5 through 8 are data.
Second, I have borrowed, and purchased some sequences to help with my own sequencing. However, I can never get the skulls to keep from moving between sequences, particularly the rotate, without going in and modifying the routine. It seems that some do not start their sequences in the middle of the servo position, so others' sequences don't "line up" with mine. I have tried everything and I can't seem to find a workaround for this. Any ideas?
Thanks


----------



## HalloweenBob

I'm sure I could help you if I could see the routines that are causing you the issues.

If all your servo settings are the same in each routine, and each routine ends with bringing all the skulls back to default positions, you should never have a problem.

Nice work on your board!


Bob


----------



## Sadler Vampire

beatlerat said:


> .... SNIP Second, I have borrowed, and purchased some sequences to help with my own sequencing. However, I can never get the skulls to keep from moving between sequences, particularly the rotate, without going in and modifying the routine. It seems that some do not start their sequences in the middle of the servo position, so others' sequences don't "line up" with mine. I have tried everything and I can't seem to find a workaround for this. Any ideas?
> Thanks


I make sure that all my routeens start and end in the neutral position. I just work it into the choreography of the shullies that way, for the very reason of avoiding that noticable "SNAP" at the end of the routeens where the skulls all want to fo to center position. It also saves on the wear and tear of the servos by avoiding that sudden movement. My skulls ran for probably 60 plus accumulated hours straight last season durring the open hours of the haunt. Had we not done this to the programming, we would have stripped our servos left and right. ( we operated 12 skullies in a 35 minute show that ran all night, each night the attraction was open, basically weekends and key nights all October ) - Hope that helps...


----------



## agentbud

I have one of the rack and pinion skulls from graveyardskulls. I had to do a little work on it and managed to let the servo gear wheels separate and now I am not sure of the alignment of those gears. If anyone out there has one of the RnP skulls from graveyardskulls, would you mind snapping a couple good pictures looking down into the skull. Something that shows how ALL of the servos are aligned when they are in their default / neutral positions. Thanks... Mike


----------



## HalloweenBob

It's actually pretty simple. Before re-attaching the gearwheels:

Energize all the servos and let them go to their default positions.

Then while they are there, move the skull into the position you want it in at default and hold it there, or have someone hold it for you. This will only affect Tilt and Nod since Rotate is connected directly and doesn't use a gearwheel.

Replace the two gearwheels while the skull is in the position you want it in and screw them down.

That should be it.


----------



## agentbud

Thanks Halloween Bob. I'll do that for the gear servos. But I also should have mentioned that I had to replace the jaw servo and it's been a while that it was out and I forgot which direction the servo arm pointed (front or back) and how it was connected to the jaw wire. Can you help with that too?
Thanks...
Mike


----------



## HalloweenBob

The servo arm for the jaw servo should point towards the back.

The minimum and default settings should be at or something close to 500, but should both be the same number. The maximum you should set according to what the widest amount is that you want the jaw to open.


----------



## jwproductions

Brilliant!! Great Prop Bob!!!


----------



## agentbud

so when the jaw servo is in its neutral position (arm in its middle position) should the jaw be open, closed or somewhere in between. I will be using a couple routines I got from you last year so I want to be sure the servo is set up like it would have been for your routines (RP Gravedigger and RP Pirate).
Thanks... Mike


----------



## Sadler Vampire

Amazing that this thread started in 2007 ...and still continues. A tribute to Halloween Bob and all his hard work and support of his adopted stepchildren, one I happily and humbly consider myself to be. We all only vary on the theme... the hard work was already done for us a long time ago. 

Again, KUDOS Robert.

"Blackheart" Bart Gaffney
a.k.a. Sadler Vampire - Holloween Forum


----------



## Haunted Wolf

Sadler Vampire said:


> Amazing that this thread started in 2007 ...and still continues. A tribute to Halloween Bob and all his hard work and support of his adopted stepchildren, one I happily and humbly consider myself to be. We all only vary on the theme... the hard work was already done for us a long time ago.
> 
> Again, KUDOS Robert.


I have to agree! I'm here putting the final touches on the new song for my singing skeletons and loving this prop!!!


----------



## jwproductions

Absolutely Love your work!!! Thanks for continuing with this post!!! Cheers


----------



## Sadler Vampire

Roberts stepchildren.... Sindy Skinless, has some nieces and nephews running around.

Come see "Johnny Doe and the Toe Tags" 

http://www.halloweenforum.com/hallo...k-band-braintrust-designers-colaboration.html








https://www.facebook.com/bart.gaffney?ref=tn_tnmn#!/pages/Haunted-High-Stage-Fright/246523175363245


----------



## HalloweenBob

@agentbud -

The jaw should be closed when the servo is all the way to the minimum position (500). This should be set so that 500 is both the minimum AND the default position. Most of the time the maximum value will end up being somewhere around 900 to 1000, although your specific setup may vary from that a bit.


----------



## HalloweenBob

Buy the way, if anyone is interested in a quick deal just in time for Halloween,

http://www.ebay.com/itm/330804658883?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649

Check this out! A 3 axis skull at a great price. I'm letting one of my spares go.


----------



## beatlerat

Well, my bug kicked in and although I am behind, I should be up and running this weekend. My question is for those who did suits. Did you have to split the pants in the back to get them to fit correctly? The Tux's were only $60 each, so not a big deal.
Here are some pics of frames. Karla Krypt and the Bone Daddy's.


----------



## Dark lord

HalloweenBob said:


> Buy the way, if anyone is interested in a quick deal just in time for Halloween,
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/330804658883?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649
> 
> Check this out! A 3 axis skull at a great price. I'm letting one of my spares go.


Awww cross-eyed crud-puppies..........missed seeing this FYI......... oh well, next time.


----------



## HalloweenBob

@ beatlerat,

Yes, I did split the pants in the back and sewed in velcro to put them back together. Also, I removed the sleeves from the shirts and just sewed the cuffs to the inside of the ends of the sleeves on the jackets. That helped a lot too. Looks like you are on your way!


----------



## oaklawn Crematory

OMG Hallowenn Bob that's alot of work!


----------



## Sadler Vampire

FWIW I saw the post with the 2x4 frames and thought I'd offer up this as a possible second solution. It has worked well for us so far.

We have our Skellies free standing as the frame is made of 1/2" waterpipe and 3/4" conduit.
We use blowmold skellies that are split in the back and wrap the pipe and conduit. then we wrap the figures in plastic and heat shrink to "corpse" them.

That way we don't have the bulky 2x4 framework behind our charactors. Dressing them is accomplished by removing the feet pads from the wood bases 
( 4 bolts each foot.... not too bad ). they stand free and ridgid.


----------



## HalloweenBob

A nice alternative. I like it.


----------



## Sparkey

*program went off kilter*

Has anyone else had their skulls go "off" kilter? I'm running the same program from last year and my skulls are out of sync. I have not made any changes either


----------



## beatlerat

Sadler Vampire said:


> FWIW I saw the post with the 2x4 frames and thought I'd offer up this as a possible second solution. It has worked well for us so far.
> 
> We have our Skellies free standing as the frame is made of 1/2" waterpipe and 3/4" conduit.



I like this set up as well. 
I used plywood and 2 x 3's to make it lighter. I agree they are bulky, but the material was cheap and if they last a couple of years (nothing is temporary in my world), I will be happy.
How do you get the collars on the shirts stiff enough to hold the bow tie? I tried a piece of 4" pvc for the collar and was even thinking of a band clamp? Suggestions?
Thanks


----------



## Sadler Vampire

Here is our guys with that "free standing" framework. From this year's "Haunted High".






Enjoy !


----------



## HalloweenBob

Nice work. 

Here is the first video from Halloween 2012 for Sindy Skinless and the Decomposers.






More videos will come as I have time to produce them.


----------



## Sadler Vampire

Need 3-axis help..... has anyone ever run their Skellies off of a gas powered generator ? We are considering running the band in the local Christmas Parade on a float, but am wondering about the integrity of a generator as a viable 110VAC power supply.

Anyone have any experience with this?


----------



## HalloweenBob

You should be fine with that setup. The important thing is that you use regulated power supplies for your 5VDC. If there are any variations in the 110AC due to your generator, the power supply that converts it to 5 VDC should take care of that and still give you a smooth, steady 5VDC.


----------



## Sadler Vampire

Thanks Bob.... BTW, How was Trekieville?
I saw some cool pics with a few of the celebs... Very cool !




HalloweenBob said:


> You should be fine with that setup. The important thing is that you use regulated power supplies for your 5VDC. If there are any variations in the 110AC due to your generator, the power supply that converts it to 5 VDC should take care of that and still give you a smooth, steady 5VDC.


----------



## HalloweenBob

Yes, I did spend a week in London to attend the largest Star Trek convention to date.

Here are a couple of pics I went away with:


----------



## Haunted Wolf

Sadler Vampire said:


> Here is our guys with that "free standing" framework. From this year's "Haunted High".
> 
> Enjoy !



Nice work!!! How did you do the hand and arm movement on the guitars and the drummer?


----------



## Sadler Vampire

http://www.halloweenforum.com/hallo...k-band-braintrust-designers-colaboration.html

It's just easier sending you to the other thread.



Haunted Wolf said:


> Nice work!!! How did you do the hand and arm movement on the guitars and the drummer?


----------



## HalloweenBob

*Need some fresh ideas!*

I have been working with a great composer and musician who is really excited about doing a couple new music tracks for my quartet this year.

So far, not a lot of inspiration has hit. I have one good song almost done, but I went with a canned track for that one.

I'm looking for some ideas for parodies on some classic Doo-*** or Motown songs. Is there anything out there you've been dying to hear my quartet sing?

I don't need anyone to come up with a whole song, just the one catchy line or parody of the title. I'll take it from there, and I'll put you in the credits of the video if I choose to do the song.

I am hoping to do something upbeat, but if the parody is really clever, I'll do any tempo. We just need to twist the lyrics into something related to Halloween, Death and Dying, Skeletons, Zombies or any other appropriate topic that a group like mine might sing about.

January is a GREAT time to get the creative Halloween juices going and stay in the 'spirit' of things.

As an example, I am thinking of rewriting Aretha Franklin's "Think" to be "Stink" instead and have it be all about the process of decomposing just after you die. So far, it's just an idea, but I love it because it's such a great song to do!

Any takers?


----------



## HalloweenBob

*Latest News*

Since my last post, I have been working on 6 new parodies for 2013. Some are now complete except for videos.

They are:

1. Let's go Die and Rot - A parody of 'At the Hop' by Danny and the Juniors
2. Zombies In The Street - A Parody of 'Dancing in the Street' by Martha Reeves and the Vandellas
3. There'll be no Werewolf in the Morning - A Parody of 'Angel of the Morning' by Merrilee Rush/Juice Newton
4. Brains on Your Pillow - A parody of 'Tears on My Pillow' by Little Anthony
5. I'm the Grim Reaper - A Parody of 'I'm a Believer' by the Monkees
6. I Lie Still Every Night - A Parody of 'In the Still of the Night' by the Five Satins

The ones that are in any stage of completion are linked to the mp3. Numbers 1, 2 and 4 are complete. Numbers 3 and 5 still need the real lead vocal put in. I have my voice as a stand-in until recording is complete, and number 6 is still being worked on although the lyrics are all done.


Enjoy and keep an eye out for when I post the videos in October!

I am working on getting a venue for this years 'Live' Performance.


----------



## bfjou812

As always .....awesome job!!


----------



## untillater

Well done Bob, cant wait to see the vids.


----------



## beatlerat

HalloweenBob said:


> Numbers 3 and 5 still need the real lead vocal put in. I have my voice as a stand-in until recording is complete, and number 6 is still being worked on although the lyrics are all done.



Bob,
I really like the Monkees song, "I'm the Grim Reaper". I would like that finished song for my quartet, if possible. As always, great work! My quartet is the star of my haunt.


----------



## beatlerat

Does anyone have Visual Basic code that will run with VSA Console, to control VSA routines. I have VB6, but have been unable to get it to work. I don't wish to buy Helmsman at this point.
Thanks.


----------



## Rev. Noch

beatlerat said:


> Does anyone have Visual Basic code that will run with VSA Console, to control VSA routines. I have VB6, but have been unable to get it to work. I don't wish to buy Helmsman at this point.
> Thanks.


Personally, I use DMXorcist. I think it is way better than Helmsman.
http://www.freewebstore.org/Phoenix-Animatronix


----------



## CRWsound

*VB code for VSA*

Hey Beatlerat,

I programmed a ridiculously complicated VB6 program to run VSA a couple of years ago. It was for an animated pirate fortune teller for my kid's school fair. 

The pirate (or his parrot) would ask the kid who came up "what's your question" in one of a variety of pirate-y ways. Then the kid would ask the question, then the pirate/parrot would answer with a pirate-y answer. The VB program was so that I could have all of the dialog movements for my characters pre-programmed in one really long VSA routine. When I pressed "play" in the VB program it would automatically place beginning and end markers in the VSA routine then press the "play-between-markers" button, playing just that question/answer and then stopping. It worked great.

I now have VSA Ultimate, but I programmed this using (I think) VSA 4 and its matching VSA console. You'll have to register the VSA Console OCX with Windows, which Google can tell you how to do - it's not hard.

I've attached a zip with the VB build files, as well as a working file for loading into Pirate_Fortune. I tried to load the VSA routine so you could see how that worked with the VB program, but it was too large for the forum's zip file rules. So you'll need to start VSA and make a blank routine about half an hour long to see how this works. 

I don't think you'll use this whole program, but hopefully by looking through the VB build you can figure out how to do what you want. I apologize because there is (almost) no documentation, and no commenting in the code...because I was in a hurry and I don't always use Best Practices for coding. Sorry. There is a tiny "readme" instruction file in the zip though.

And in other news: I was here because we used this thread to build 3-axis heads for four new skeletons last year. I'm very grateful to Halloween Bob for starting the thread and contributing such good instructions, we were very happy with our skulls. Here's an excerpt from the video that played as part of last year's show (close up on one of the skulls starts at 1:30):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sfyih4Yk3k

Thanks again Bob. And as far as any questions about the VB program, I'm at work today but can look at my code tomorrow if there is a need.
Chris


----------



## beatlerat

CRWsound said:


> Hey Beatlerat,
> 
> I programmed a ridiculously complicated VB6 program to run VSA a couple of years ago. It was for an animated pirate fortune teller for my kid's school fair.
> 
> Thanks again Bob. And as far as any questions about the VB program, I'm at work today but can look at my code tomorrow if there is a need.
> Chris


WOW!

I got mine to work before my demo VSA CONSOLE ran out. I am getting an error when I try to buy VSA CONSOLE at Brookshire's site. I get no response to numerous emails, so I guess I will have to wait. That is an awesome program! All I am looking for is to run my songs back to back, so that I can go back and add some dialog between songs.
Thanks!


----------



## HalloweenBob

*Update on New Songs*

First, from the list posted a few posts back, The Grim Reaper song and Werewolf in the Morning are now complete and I am working on the programming. It looks like 'I Lie Still Every Night' will be put off until next year along with a new parody I just wrote, but won't have time to do this year called "Stink". It's a parody of Aretha Franklin's "Think".

Here's what they sound like:

I'm The Grim Reaper

Werewolf In The Morning


And two others from the list are now completely done including new videos:






and







Enjoy!


By the way, if you are in the local area to me, you may want to come out and see the gang performing live for 2013 on October 24th, 25th and 26th 2013 in Williston, VT. They will be set up at the Haunted Forest.


----------



## HalloweenBob

*I have a problem I would like advice on*

I am interested in finding out the company that put out the singing Pumpkin DVD that used my song 'Rise Up Ye Buried Gentlemen'. I believe it's these guys: http://singingpumpkins.bigcartel.com/

Here's a YouTube video showing my song. I have found many videos on YouTube from different users: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jmhh7kTsEU It shows my song followed by a number of other common Halloween songs.

In any case, I was flattered when I saw another Halloween Forum member's video of that routine thinking that he had used my voice, files and the song my friend and I wrote for his own pumpkin project. I was fine with that. However, it's a totally different thing when a company produces and sells on a large scale a DVD with my material on it with no credit, no permission and no payments.

I did post those files years ago on this very forum as part of a tutorial on how to create the audio tracks for VSA routines found here: http://www.halloweenforum.com/tutorials-step-step/112599-producing-audio-3-axis-skulls-vsa-routines.html


That was done to teach people how to work with multi-track software and VSA. If an individual wants to use my work for their own haunt or use my designs for 3 axis skulls as many have, I am fine with that. It's why I share. If a business wants to take my work, mass produce it and make a profit off it without my consent, or even my knowledge, that's a different thing all together.

I also posted video of my skeletons singing that song, but with a female lead instead of all my voice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a5Xp4FE6UQ

Has anyone had dealings with that singing pumpkin company?

I don't plan to go after them, but I do want to contact them, and let them know that they are using my work without permission. I think the best course of action is to try and make a win-win out of this.

I have plenty of other songs that could easily be made into pumpkin animations.

I would propose to these people that we work together and I will provide new material as long as they start giving me credit and a commission on new DVDs they sell containing my work. If they want to offer me something for all the ones they have already sold, I would accept.

I am looking for advice. Do you think that my plan is the way to go here?

How would you handle this?
Please share your thoughts.

Thanks,
Bob


----------



## CRWsound

Hey Bob,

Yerk, well that sucks. I think you're showing remarkable restraint, considering. On the other hand, I know it's stressful trying to figure out if you want to come storming in like an avenging angel. 

I think your approach is reasonable and way more than fair. I worry about you getting any kind of satisfaction from these folks though. I took a look at BigCartel.com and it seems like the company you're trying to contact is probably one guy, who put up an inexpensive storefront using the bigcartel fill-in-the-blanks web shop. If you can manage to work together in the future with him, that will be great. I hope that it will go that way. But I fear that the guy will just close up this shop (once you contact him) and find another site like bigcartel to open a new shop, and you'll have to be a sheriff always tracking him down across the web. No fun. 

If he does bolt, I'd contact the administrators of bigcartel and tell them one of their sellers was using your copyrighted material (copyright is implicit as soon as you record anything) to see if they'll provide you with any serious contact information. Something like a home address, that can't just be discarded like a disposable email. Then maybe you can come to an understanding going forward.

But maybe it will all go very well at first contact. Good luck.
Chris


----------



## Excogitate

Wow that is pretty amazing stuff! Very talented you are!


----------



## VinceMacPaul

As CRWsound said, remarkable restraint on your part I think Bob. I hope you catch up to them. It's a shame some folks take advantage of good natured people to try and make a buck. Good luck Bob. Thanks again for your tutelage and sharing your productions.


----------



## HalloweenBob

I have caught up with him, and he responded to me. We are working it out with no problems, so no hard feelings. Please don't boycott him or his project. If you like it, buy it.


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## HalloweeenSis

Wow! This is great skull! Thanks for the step-by-step directions. Great job!


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## ServoCity

We'd love to include your 3-axis skull build in our soon-to-launch online Project Center! If you don't mind taking a couple minutes to submit some of the details of your build, here is the link: http://www.servocity.com/html/customer_project_upload.html
Thanks,
ServoCity


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## HalloweenBob

I have filled out the form. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.


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## roterhead

I jut finished all 216 pages and what an odyssey and journey for everyone involved.Simply amazing.
GraveyardBob, Sindy et al are wonderful and I see all of the journeys and just shake my head...

I've found a lot of references to a site that no longer exists. Without trying to dredge up the bad, I was wondering whatever happened to GraveYardSkulls?


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## untillater

roterhead said:


> I jut finished all 216 pages and what an odyssey and journey for everyone involved.Simply amazing.
> GraveyardBob, Sindy et al are wonderful and I see all of the journeys and just shake my head...
> 
> I've found a lot of references to a site that no longer exists. Without trying to dredge up the bad, I was wondering whatever happened to GraveYardSkulls?


They were bought out and supposedly were going to relaunch, but they were also undercut by triaxialskulllabs.com , graveyardskulls has been down for about a year now.


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## HalloweenBob

Yes, I don't think it's coming back, at least not as Graveyardskulls. I have nothing to do with what happens to the buisness-side of that company. They were selling my designs, so I got a small cut on the skulls sold (although I am still owed money). I also helped people with troubleshooting and getting set up, learning the software and I made all the routines.

It's too bad, because it could have been good if it were run right.

I am still here to help anyone who purchased products from that company if you need help or want new routines, but I'm afraid I have no influence over the sales and website side of the company. I also heard it was sold a few times, but there seems to be no evidence to indicate that was true.

I will, of course post on this thread if I find out for sure that anything is happening on that front, but I wouldn't hold my breath.....unless you want to become a new prop for your own yard haunt.


----------



## VinceMacPaul

Bob. You've been a Halloween Saint Sir for us technically minded through the years. I can only speak for myself of course, but I want to Thank You from the bottom of my grave for all of your sharing of technical advice and hanging in there with us. roterhead just experienced the Spirit as I'm sure a lot more folks have through the years as I have. A lot of folks on this forum have benefited from your gracious time and from the others that have contributed to this thread. Thanks so much again Bob. We're home haunters, not professional. I see the results of your efforts all over the web. I still want a date with Sindy.


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## HalloweenBob

*An off-season treat....or maybe it's a trick. No, it's a treat!*

Thank you!

By the way, if anyone is interested, I 'Dug up' three old Classic Lindberg 3 axis skulls that I have had around as spares. They have never been used except to test them and I'm selling them on eBay if anyone is interested.

3 axis skulls for sale on eBay

Thank you!


----------



## Hellspawn

Reviving this thread to ask a question.

There have been multiple rod ends mentioned that will work with a 3 axis skull, I went ahead and ordered these: 59915K272 Ptfe-lined Stainless Steel Ball Joint Rod End, 1/4"-28 Rh Male Shank, 1/4" Ball Id, 1"l Thread 

the bearing is really really stiff, it moves, just takes a bit of force (I bought two and both of them are the same)

I am planning on using the Kmart skulls for these and was wondering if I should be looking at a different rod end, or if they are all pretty much identical as far as how rigid the bearing is.

I almost ordered this one this morning: 2458K121
Carbon-Fiber Insert Ball Joint Rod End, 1/4"-28 RH Male Shank, 1/4" Ball ID, 1" Long Thread 

but thought I would ask here first for advice. 

I was planning on using the 425BB servos for tilt/nod/pan but even using them, I am worried about the amount of tension/weight they will be pushing for the tilt and nod specifically. 

Am I just being paranoid?


----------



## bfjou812

If I remember I just bought some least expensive rod ends from McMaster Carr, I did not have any issues with them as they rotated very freely within the rod end itself. This is the one I used. http://www.mcmaster.com/#60645K121


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## Hellspawn

bfjou812 said:


> If I remember I just bought some least expensive rod ends from McMaster Carr, I did not have any issues with them as they rotated very freely within the rod end itself. This is the one I used. http://www.mcmaster.com/#60645K121


Thank you very much!


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## MonkeyBasic

Just noticed that this thread is referenced in the September edition of Nuts & Volts magazine. Very cool!


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## ibjeepin

HallweenBob,

I got your back! I made a quick video for everyone to show the linkage.


----------



## Halstaff

MonkeyBasic said:


> Just noticed that this thread is referenced in the September edition of Nuts & Volts magazine. Very cool!


Nelson, hopefully you also saw the link to your site that I put in the Picaxe article.


----------



## MonkeyBasic

Halstaff said:


> Nelson, hopefully you also saw the link to your site that I put in the Picaxe article.


I haven't finished reading yet but that's awesome. Very much appreciated!!! I was wondering if you were behind these.


----------



## HalloweenBob

I missed a few posts here earlier this year. Never saw my notifications in my email. Sorry for that. If it is still relevant, it was the McMaster-Carr part posted by bfjou812 back in post #2167 that we used, or whatever equivalent there was to that part back in 2007. But really any rod end would work. Just choose one with enough degrees of motion and a reasonable size. It doesn't have to hold up a lot of weight.

Also thanks to ibjeepin for posting the video showing the rod end and how it is connected.

Sorry I spaced out on those posts.

I would like to mention that the bracket added that was attached to the plate and held the Rod End was almost always part of the design from the beginning. Long before Graveyardskulls got a hold of it.

It's true, I initially tried mounting the Rod End directly to the skull and it worked, but getting the same angle on every skull was next to impossible. at about page 10 of this thread, you can follow the development of the 'A' bracket that incorporated into the design that actually was a turning point in getting the design to be transferable and removable from the skull.

Here's where it happened:
http://www.halloweenforum.com/hallo...10.html?highlight=my+3+axis+skull+in+progress

Thanks again for stepping in with that video. It's good to know I'm covered by good people here if I miss a post or two.

Thanks,
Bob


----------



## W3B D3V1L

*Inspirational and Questions*

I wanted to chime in here since I just finished reading all 218 pages of this thread...it was quite an emotional roller-coaster at times. I showed my wife some of the latest videos of Halloween Bob's setup because I found those before this thread. Then when I got to the point HB had to sell his setup I was heartbroken for him...I shared that with my wife. I was excited to see when he started up a new trio and then started making improvements to the 3-axis design...I think I also found a video of that before finding this thread, which is what prompted me to read the whole thread. It was also quite inspirational for me and I want to thank HB and everyone that contributed to this thread for that inspiration.

I ended up here because I got an Arduino kit for Christmas; not really any plans for it but I did want to start working towards some animatronics for our home haunt. First thing I did was Google Arduino and Halloween, came across a couple of flickering lights and such then found a talking skull setup, which led me to really home in on a 3-axis skull as my goal. After finding this thread, I immediately took a cheap $3 skull with moving jaw, gave him a lobotomy, and proceeded to rig up some wire and the lone, small servo that came with my kit, into this skull because I wanted to see his mouth move. Threw a quick program together for the Arduino and wired up the servo and a potentiometer so that when I turned the pot, the mouth would open and close. It doesn't work great, but for a quick job, his mouth moves when I turn the knob so that's a win in my book and I'm really excited about this now. 

TL;DR - Halloween Bob and everyone here rocks and are an inspiration to home haunters. 

After making it through the thread, I also have a few questions:

Does anyone have a complete part list of the latest v1 build with all the mods from the thread? I honestly last track as I was reading. 
I know at one point, it was mentioned that drawings of v2 could be posted but I never saw that...is that still feasible? It seems if there is a better solution in place I may want to explore that first (cost and build wise)...not sure if that's a sore subject?


----------



## Sparkey

Hi all. I built four of the 3 Axis Skulls, per Halloween Bob's page, back in 2010. I only run the things for Halloween, about 4-5 hours with breaks between each show. Now my HS-425BB Servos (using SSC-32 card BTW) seem to be all over the place and mis-firing for lack of a better term. I can run individual components from VSA but when I put the saved show back on (show runs via Helmsman) that I use every year so far things are not working right. Jaws stop, servos get jerky, I have LEDs for spots, via the SSC-32, and they don't run per the show. If I turn off line items, via VSA, say and only run the LED spot lights they work correctly but not if all line items are on. 
Anyone have thoughts on why things are going nuts for me this year?


----------



## HalloweenBob

There can be many reasons for these problems. I will need a little history before making a good guess at the problem.

Is this a new routine that is giving you problems, or an older routine that used to work fine and now is having issues?

If it is an older routine, has anything been added to it?

What kind of power supply are you using?

How long are the extension wires going from the SSC-32 board to your servos? Has this length changed from previous years?

Jittery servos can be caused by lots of things. I will list the most common things that can cause problems:

1. Extension wires are too long and the signal to the servos is being degraded through the length of the wire (15 feet or longer may be too long)
2. There is a lose or disconnected ground wire somewhere in the system, probably on the SSC-32 card
3. The power supply does not provide enough amperage at the output to drive the number of servos/LEDs that you are using.
4. There are power wires running along side your servo extension wires which are causing interference with your signal wires.
5. The SSC-32 board has developed a problem
6. One of your servos is going bad, but is still functioning. This will put an increased drain on your power supply, causing random problems throughout the system. Check to see if any servo is getting hotter than the others, or one at a time, disconnect a single servo and see if everything else improves. If not, connect that servo back up and try disconnecting a different one.

Off the top of my head, those are the most common issues I have run into, and through the years, I have experienced every one of those issues at one time or another.

Please use some detail and describe your setup, giving me part numbers for your power supply, the number of servos (and other things) it is driving, the length of the wires, and anything else unique about your particular wiring and setup. Pictures would be helpful.

How thick is the wire you are using for your servo extensions? The longer the run, the thicker the wire should be in order to minimize signal loss.

I await more information,
Bob


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## Sparkey

*Sevros gone scary*

Hi Bob.
Thank you ever so much for responding! I'm really freaking out, this close to Halloween, to have things go wrong and I'm not able to figure it out. Here is some background info for you...

When I built my system, in 2010, I made a "Skull Tool Box" [see attachment] to make things modular for easy pickup and storage. In it I have: (1) Kit-74 v2, (1) ATX power supply, and (1) SSC-32. I use DB15 connectors, with custom built 22 AWG cables to the 4 skulls and 4 LED 3VDC spot lights {in the faux microphones}. One cable per skull and one cable for all 4 spot lights. I also use three relay outputs, from the KIT-74 (relays are good) controlling two 12V lights for the show (1=mood lighting, 1=intermission sign) and one power to the SSC-32 to allow the servos a cool down period. Between each 'Skull Song' I put a small intermission bit of music to give the skulls a break - non constant running servos. In 2012 I added another song, and have used this program ever since. The hardware has never changed.

My full Quartet is actually 1 full 3-Axis skull, the lead singer, and 3 skulls with only jaw action, backup singers. I never took the time to finish the full project and all my visitors loved what I did so I kept it as is. I keep saying some day I'll finish them but I get busy with other things.
I use faux microphones with 3VDC white T5 LEDs in them as facial spot lights and I also have them (LEDs) programmed in the music for effects when there is no one singing etc.

Q: What kind of power supply are you using?
A--Computer ATX power supply for the entire system. Has worked great from the start, 2010.

Q: How long are the extension wires going from the SSC-32 board to your servos? Has this length changed from previous years?
A--The hardware setup has remained the same since 2010. Wires from the Tool Box are about 14' long and have worked from 2010 forward.

I have read your info. on "Jittery servos" and plan on trying just one skull at a time now to see if things change. 

10.20.2015 -- 9pm update
Refresher here:
I have 4 skulls: 1 is a full 3-Axis unit and 3 are jaw movement only.
Each skull has a faux microphone with a T5 (3VDC) LED as a spot light.
I have 5 cables using 22AWG wire and DB15 connectors: 1 per skull, and 1 for all of the spot lights.

Testing Done:
I have tried running the entire system by starting with all skulls and the spots. 
If everything was plugged in then nothing worked 100%. Spots stopped, servos did not goto full home positions, servos locked up or stopped.

Then I began pulling the DB15 plugs. 
If all the skulls were unplugged the spots worked correctly. 

None of the skulls alone or in combo worked 100% correctly. 

Full 3-Axis skull -- with or without spots, with or without 0, 1 or more skulls
Some times the 3-Axis just stopped dead. All of the time at some point the servos did not return to their home or "Default Position." During a song servos did not move fully to the expected position or return fully most of the time.

Jaw only skulls -- with or without spots, with or without 0, 1 or more skulls
During a song servo(s) did not move fully to the expected position or return most of the time. All of the time at some point the servos did not return to their home or "Default Position." 

Thanks again!
Sparkey


----------



## bfjou812

Have you checked all of your voltages when under load? I'm thinking that your power supply may be getting ready to bite the dust. Are you using a resistor to start it? As Bob said if there is a bad ground or the power supply isn't able to support the current draw it will cause problems.


----------



## J-Man

bfjou812 said:


> Have you checked all of your voltages when under load? I'm thinking that your power supply may be getting ready to bite the dust. Are you using a resistor to start it? As Bob said if there is a bad ground or the power supply isn't able to support the current draw it will cause problems.


I said the same thing a couple days ago, Sparkey posted this question in another thread located here post #9 http://www.halloweenforum.com/halloween-props/140606-servo-choice-3-axis-skull.html


----------



## HalloweenBob

In reading what you wrote and the testing you did, I would have to guess that the problem is in one of three areas. It is unlikely that all the servos in all the skulls have all suddenly gone bad at once. Your LEDs are working when run alone, so that suggests that they are OK, the wiring going to them are OK, and the relay board you are using is OK. 

That leaves a ground problem in your wiring, the power supply itself, or the SSC-32 card.

Having one bad servo can draw down the power supply and cause these problems, but since you said that the problem persists even when you take each skull out of the circuit one at a time, I would have to say that is not the issue.

The easiest thing to do is check the easiest things first, then move on. First, use a voltmeter to check the output of your power supply to be sure it is giving you the proper voltage. Even if it does, that does not mean that your power supply isn't the problem, but if the voltage is wrong, then it most likely IS the problem. Confirm the voltage and then move on. Remember that the SSC-32 board power should never be less than 6VDC. The voltage going into the SSC-32 on the VL connector must be between 6 and 9 volts. The board runs on 5VDC, but it uses a voltage regulator on the board to convert whatever you put in down to 5VDC. The regulator itself uses up about 1 volt of power, so if you fed it 5VDC, the components on the board would only get 4VDC and could very well exhibit odd and erratic behavior. Be sure that has at least 6VDC. The VS input can be anything from 4.8VDC to 6VDC. That is what powers the servos.

The second easiest thing to check is your wiring.

Using a meter to check continuity and your eyes to look for physical issues, check the entire path of your power wires. Check every solder connection, check every screw connection on the SSC-32 board. Turn the board over and check the solder connections that hold the screw terminals to the board. They frequently develop cracks due to stress from over-tightening, or motion from the wires pulling on the terminal blocks. I have removed the screw terminals from more than one SSC-32 board and soldered the wires into the board directly to solve that very problem. It could be a break in a wire, an intermittent break, so move your wires around while testing, or a high resistance connection. It would be connected, but it's a poor connection, and it is dropping voltage across the high resistance caused by the bad connection.

Another way to solve a bad ground problem is to run a new ground wire. Don't remove the old one. Just get a new wire, connect it directly to the negative from the power supply, and run it to the SSC-32. Bypass the screw terminal and solder it directly to the board on the back side where the negative from the screw terminal goes in.

Before we move on, I need to know how you wired your extensions.

I usually only run the signal wires out through the extensions and I run a separate set of thicker wires out for power to the servos. That allows me to run fewer wires. Just two wires go out for power and get split out to individual servos at the skull end, and then one wire per servo for control as opposed to three wires for each servo. If you do wire it that way, you still have to connect the ground from the power supply that is driving the servos to the ground on the SSC-32 board from the VS input. Otherwise you can get erratic behavior.

If all your wiring checks out and running new grounds and new positive wires along side your old ones does not solve the issue, it's time to start swapping out parts.

The first thing to swap out is the power supply. Just because it is reading the correct voltage at the output doesn't mean it is not still the problem. It could be that the power supply is no longer providing the current that it should, or it's characteristics may be changing when under load. Replace it with a different power supply and give it a run.

I also couldn't see from your picture if you are using two separate power supplies or just one on the SSC-32 board. I know you are using the 12v for some of the lights through the relays, but that's not the part I am questioning. What are you using to power the VL input? Is that separate from what you are using to power the VS input? Unless it is a 6VDC power supply, they should be two separate things. As I mentioned, the VL input should be between 6VDC and 9VDC. the VS input can be as low as 4.8VDC but not higher than 6VDC or you will start burning up servos, or shortening their life. If you are running both off the same 5VDC output from the computer power supply you are using, that could be your problem, and you have just been lucky up to this point. The VL input (Which stands for Voltage to Logic, or the chips on the board) Requires no less than 6VDC. For a test, run it off a 9V battery and make sure the jumpers are set correctly so that the VL and VS are NOT sharing the same input. You want the VL=VS jumper removed when using two separate power supplies.

See if that solves your problem running the SSC-32 with a 9V battery and the jumper removed. Use the power supply you have for VS. If you still are having the issue, then swap out the power supply, leaving the 9V batter in place on the VL input.

After that, if the problem persists, you may need to swap the SSC-32 board. It may have developed an issue. They are making different ones now that take a USB input directly. No need for a USB to Serial adapter. If you want to swap apples for apples, I have an old-style SSC-32 board I can send you as fast as you want it if you don't mind paying for shipping.

If you are still having issues, or you are not following along with these instructions and need help, call me at 603-646-3556. I will attempt to talk you through it.


----------



## HalloweenBob

Replying to Inspirational and Questions....

Thank you so much for reading through it and following my work. As far as the v1 build, there are templates within the thread, but I haven't really put it all together in one place as a parts list and instructions. I probably should. That would be the kit to build if you are beginner to novice with animatronics.

the v2 kit never had official paperwork from me. I built the prototype without any drawings, just an idea in my head. I made the first part, held up servos to it to see what would fit, made a second part, revised it and so on until I had something that worked. Then I sent it out to Joel in California when Graveyardskulls was still a thing. He took the design, made a few modifications to reduce it's height and created templates for it so the parts could be made in a CNC machine. He never gave me any of those files, and the parts would be very time consuming and difficult to make by hand, the way I did with the prototype. I have some new designs in my head, but I'm waiting for some things to fall into place and to get a 3D printer before I start making new prototypes. I will, of course, post here once that happens. This will be a much-improved system and entire skull and will be v3 for my 3 axis design. What I could use, if anyone is reading this who can do this kind of thing, is someone who can translate my ideas into 3D CAD drawings that can be 3D printed. Anybody out there good with that? Please contact me if you are.

thanks


----------



## Sparkey

10.23.2015
Greetings.
I want to say thank you for all of your ideas and help given to me to fix my skull operations problems. Turns out that the problem must have been in my power supply on the 5V rail as suggested - it did meter out at 5V no load. So I used a big bench top power supply I have for other work/testing and it all ran fine at 6V. I had been using that ATX power supply (I do have a sandbar resistor in it) and the 5V rail to run the: SSC32, servos and the LED spot lights and the 12V rail to run effects lighting through a K74. I had been using 5V for years but this time it just did not work. So here is what I did, I swapped my wires to take power from the 12V rail and inserted a LM2596 DC-DC converter which I dialed down to 6.25V, .25 extra for the long run of my control cables and 22AWG wire. I ran my full show with no problems this morning. 

I've been 'out' and now that I've done everything above I am finding your note --with tons of great info!-- saying separate the VL/VS power. I have not done anything since this a.m. due to other works in progress, based on what I have done above do you still think I need to split VL/VS power?
Thanks.


----------



## HalloweenBob

No, if you're running at 6VDC, it's fine to leave both VL and VS together. At 5VDC, it can be a problem. Sounds like you are doing fine.


----------



## Sparkey

Thanks again Bob.
What I really mean is "I can't thank you enough for all your help"!!!!!!
You've saved my show this year.
Now I'm off to the grave yard 'troncs.
I think I need to stop trying to add one new thing each year, it's becoming monster (pun intended) to manage! 
Happy Haunting!
Sparkey


----------



## J-Man

Sparkey,
Not to down play the lengthy advice you got from HB but I, as well as bfjou812, said at the very beginning that it sounded like a power supply problem.


----------



## Sparkey

Hi J-Man.
Yes you did and I did not intend for you or bfjou812 to feel ignored, it was a matter of time. With my job some days I'm home, some days I'm not and I had not checked my email before I started trying things as I was in a rush and scared I would not have my prop for the show. On the other side of the coin the original project here was by HalloweenBob and I have followed it from the start way back when he started this thread in 2007. 
So if you will I got the skinny about the Monster direct from Dr. Frankenstein . Also I received even more information from him when he responded on possible future problems, again as he started this thread in 2007 he has the most experience:

_1. Extension wires are too long and the signal to the servos is being degraded through the length of the wire (15 feet or longer may be too long)
2. There is a lose or disconnected ground wire somewhere in the system, probably on the SSC-32 card
3. The power supply does not provide enough amperage at the output to drive the number of servos/LEDs that you are using.
4. There are power wires running along side your servo extension wires which are causing interference with your signal wires.
5. The SSC-32 board has developed a problem
6. One of your servos is going bad, but is still functioning. This will put an increased drain on your power supply, causing random problems throughout the system. Check to see if any servo is getting hotter than the others, or one at a time, disconnect a single servo and see if everything else improves. If not, connect that servo back up and try disconnecting a different one.

Off the top of my head, those are the most common issues I have run into, and through the years, I have experienced every one of those issues at one time or another._

I keep all of my project data on hard drive and thumb drive backup (Christmas too, another big show) so this info., and yours, went into my note book for future reference.

I received a lot of responses, public and private, and "*I thank everyone for their help in my moment of need/stage fright*" 

because -- The show must go on! 

In closing I hope you, and everyone else, have an awesome Halloween!
Thanks again.
Sparkey




J-Man said:


> Sparkey,
> Not to down play the lengthy advice you got from HB but I, as well as bfjou812, said at the very beginning that it sounded like a power supply problem.


----------



## J-Man

Glad you're up and running! Happy Haunting!


----------



## bfjou812

Good to hear you are up and running. Like you I also built 3 or 4 skulls using HalloweenBobs method. He is a real help when it comes to getting things figured out. He helped me on some programming issues I had. Like you said , He' the one with the most experience on this build.


----------



## HalloweenBob

Been looking at 3D printers this morning. May have a nice one in place that I can use some time this summer. I will post here as things develop. At least then I can start working on new prototypes.


----------



## Rev. Noch

Are you thinking about rolling your own Skull with the 3d printer? Or is it for fabricating the internals?


----------



## HalloweenBob

Most likely a combination of both. Some parts will be metal, and some parts will be plastic, but might be easier and cheaper to produce in a shop with a CNC machine. Still trying to figure that all out. I will be 3D printing everything I can for the prototype whether it ends up being done that way later or not.


----------



## Nicholas

I've been interested in trying similar. Mills are still capable of producing stronger parts, but for light-load parts or for prototyping 3D printers open a lot of possibilities. I'll be really curious to hear more about what you come up with.


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## IR Gunner

Here is a picture of my ver2 and ver3 of a 3D printed skull base. I have more parts on the way for ver4. I find that the spring in the neck causes the servos to growl more than I like, so I will be using a swivel joint for the next version.


----------



## HalloweenBob

That looks like pretty nice work. I'm guessing the grey (or silver) parts on the table are part of a different project.From the pictures, I can't see the spring you are talking about. I like the original design, however.


----------



## IR Gunner

Here it is without all those distracting robot parts in the background. 

You can see in the picture how the spring is bent by the servo action. This is similar to the 'twisty' system. I am replacing that with a universal joint. That will remove the pressure from the servo, and thus should make it smoother and longer lived.


----------



## HalloweenBob

It all makes sense now. the old Twisty Skulls used to use a spring center. If it's making the servos work too hard, perhaps you can just find a less aggressive spring to use. Nice job on the 3D printed parts. Do you print them yourself, or send them out?


----------



## IR Gunner

I printed those myself. This design is printed in ABS. I had some problems with the last print lifting from the bed. But it did not affect the functionality. I expect many more versions before I am satisfied with the design.


----------



## HalloweenBob

What 3D printer do you have and are you happy with it?


----------



## Redsand187

Are there any working links to audio files to use with these skulls? I built one back is 2010 and only used it then. Thinking of pulling it back out but would like some pirate theme monologue this time around. Even clean stuff from the POTC ride.


----------



## HalloweenBob

Please let me know what links are not working and I will try to fix them. There are a lot of links, and it's a long thread, so finding them myself would be very time consuming, but I'm pretty sure I still have all the files referenced.


----------



## dwleo

I will said:


> Funny by 5


----------



## HalloweenBob

*The time has come!*

My new store will open at 11:00am Saturday. Please visit it, drop me an email from the page, share it with friends, or whatever you can do to help get the word out. I've spent most of the last year reworking and improving my designs and have come up with what I think, is the best 3 axis skull out there. I might be a little biased, but take a look and decide for yourself. If anyone wants to place an order, please bear with me on delivery times as I just get started. I need to build up parts inventories and the 3D printing is a slow process. I'm asking for 3 to 4 weeks for delivery. I'll be basically making skulls to order until I can get a handle on the quantities I will need.

I hope to see some of you lurking on my page at http://HalloweenSkulls.com.

Thanks for all the support throughout the years, and I hope this will start some new conversations.


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## jamma

HalloweenBob said:


> My new store will open at 11:00am Saturday. Please visit it, drop me an email from the page, share it with friends, or whatever you can do to help get the word out. I've spent most of the last year reworking and improving my designs and have come up with what I think, is the best 3 axis skull out there. I might be a little biased, but take a look and decide for yourself. If anyone wants to place an order, please bear with me on delivery times as I just get started. I need to build up parts inventories and the 3D printing is a slow process. I'm asking for 3 to 4 weeks for delivery. I'll be basically making skulls to order until I can get a handle on the quantities I will need.
> 
> I hope to see some of you lurking on my page at http://HalloweenSkulls.com.
> 
> Thanks for all the support throughout the years, and I hope this will start some new conversations.


Looks like someone has been putting a 3D printer to good use! Best of luck, Bob. I'll be one of your first customers.


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## HalloweenBob

Thanks. The store is now open and ready.


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## ZombieRaider

HalloweenBob said:


> Thanks. The store is now open and ready.


Wow Bob! You've made incredible progress since your last post in Oct...I've been planning on buying a small 3d printer this fall to toy around with animatronic projects....I noticed on your photo at the store your standing beside a Stratsys printer which is incredibly expensive....The only person I know that personally owns one is Jay Leno.....Did you buy that for this endeavor or do you have access to one?.....Feel free to ignore that personal question, I'm just being curious and a little jealous either way LOL...Once you get going and established, you should look into doing a 3d printed raven!....That's also on my 3d print wish list.....Also think about updating your link from sindy skinless to your new site so every time you post, there is a link....I would've used it at least 3 times already....Congratulations on your business start up!.....ZR


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## HalloweenBob

Thanks for checking it all out! No, that's not my own personal machine. I have access to it at work. I do have outside 3D printing sources now that I am done prototyping.

Thanks for the heads up on my signature link. I had forgotten to update that.

Bob


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## ZombieRaider

HalloweenBob said:


> Thanks for checking it all out! No, that's not my own personal machine. I have access to it at work. I do have outside 3D printing sources now that I am done prototyping.
> 
> Thanks for the heads up on my signature link. I had forgotten to update that.
> 
> Bob


That's really cool Bob....I've been re-visiting all the 3d sites this weekend and ended up placing an order this afternoon for a Prusa i3 MKllS kit with the multi-material upgrade...My sister has one and loves it....Definitely not for everyone but I've been researching for over a year now.....I've seen many bits and pieces - working eyes/lids, hands but yours is the first working 3 axis skull I've seen printed....Thanks for pushing the limits.....I know it's a long road but you've inspired me with a working proof of concept.....ZR


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## HalloweenBob

Yes, 3D printing has finally started to get reasonably priced enough to use for manufacturing, not just prototyping. I figured I would take advantage of that. The 3D print costs will only come down from here on out, so I don't see the cost for doing business this way going up in the future, I see it coming down. Glad to be the guinea pig.


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## HalloweenBob

It's time for a Grand Opening Sale. Giving $100.00 off each assembled 3 Axis Skull. The coupon Code is here: *VCHEDWMX8K0K*
For all the details, check this thread:http://www.halloweenforum.com/annou...pening-sale-halloween-skulls.html#post2241265

Thanks, I've been busy getting everything ready, and it's looking good. I have videos up and lots of info on the website. In 2018, I hope to start development on moving arms like the ones I built for Sindy Skinless, but more robust, so they can go on the road easier without worry.

As Time permits, I will continue to update as I make progress.


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## jamma

Just a quick note of recommendation for Halloween Bob's new skulls. I was (I believe) the first person to buy the DIY kit back in July. In a nutshell, I'm quite impressed with the product. The engineering is extremely clever (would you expect anything less from Bob?) and the 3D printing is beyond what most hobbyists can achieve. I own two rather expensive, high end "prosumer" printers, a dual extruder Raise 3D N2+ (raise3d.com) and a four extruder Stacker3D 500 (stacker3d.com) and I can't achieve the quality and precision of the parts in Bob's products, which are printed on seriously expensive printers-- and it shows!

Bob has been very proactive with his support, even noticing when the UPS delivery was delayed due to the truck getting into an accident! (package was unharmed). Even though I took the DIY route, he provided me with a carefully curated list of additional parts complete with prices, vendors, and online links. He worked with me as I came across a couple of alternatives, and together we figured out what might or might not work. BTW, he sells fully assembled skulls and unassembled full kits too, of course.

As for assembly, he has a series of videos that break it down step by step. I'd say the trickiest part is soldering the tiny LEDs for the eyes. I have a big magnifying glass on my "third hand" soldering clamps, so I was able to do this without too much difficulty. Bob has an even cleverer suggestion that involves using your phone's camera as a magnifier, which I never would have thought of.

His custom DMX board was not available until recently, which kept me from finishing the skull until this weekend. Happy to report it all works beautifully. Again, he proactively reached out with a fix for a minor mechanical issue with the board that was simple to implement and will be addressed in subsequent batches. The skulls movement is natural and the whole thing is wonderfully self contained. He even gives you a neck piece (vertebrae) through which you run the wires and support rod so that the illusion isn't broken by unhidden wires and mechanics.

As for the price, I think it represents good value for the product you receive. I've made five 3-axis skulls in the past, based on Bob's original design. If you've done this too, you'll realize that creating a high quality, reliable, fluid skull that can be consistently controlled by VSA takes many, many hours to get right. If you give your time any sort of value, you'll come to see that Bob's product is a good deal. Of course, many of us love the "making" aspect of this hobby. I know I do. But I also really enjoy coming up with creative routines for my animatronic characters. The HS skull will let you more quickly get to this part of the fun. Something to consider. 

In sum, two thumbs up for:
a) engineering
b) 3D print quality
c) customer support
d) value for money

I'll try to post pics when I get a chance and would be happy to answer any questions you might have, too.


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## Diabolical

That's pretty cool. It would be really cool to learn that. It really looks difficult to even setup. Maybe after I get done with Terra tutorials I will try that.


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## HalloweenBob

Jamma, Thank you so much for the review. You were indeed the first customer placing your order just a few hours after the store opened. I would love to see pictures and hopefully a video of an original routine that you designed for the skull.

@Diabolical, the level of difficulty is directly related to whether you choose the DIY version, or the fully assembled skull.


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## Sadler Vampire

Hi Bob... What is Sindy and the boys up to this year?


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## HalloweenBob

Just released this yesterday: 




I've got two more that I'm editing now, and they'll be ready before Halloween.

In real life, I'm taking them on the road up to Essex Junction, VT where they'll be performing for kids after going through a haunted attraction. The attraction is geared for the younger kids, but their parents will be there too, so we'll have a good audience. I get some of my best reactions from young kids who aren't entirely sure what they're looking at.

I post updates on the videos every time I release them in this thread (http://www.halloweenforum.com/hallo...ing-skeleton-quartet-videos-2009-present.html)for future reference. Subscribe to that one and you'll see them all as soon as they come out.


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## HalloweenBob

Wow, it's been a while since the last post here. I've been very busy and haven't had much time to keep up with things. 

Last year, I made myself 5 new skulls for the group using my Halloween Skulls product, and gave everyone in the group a new head. Of course that meant changing all the settings on all my past routines as well. 

Starting the business, my regular job, and reworking all the skeletons have pretty much kept me straight out. Last year, I only made 2 new songs which will be posted in the thread listed in the post above. I didn't even get a chance to update that last year. 

This year as things are settling into a routine, I was able to put together 5 new routines for Sindy Skinless which are in video post-production now. I'm getting ready for the live shows in a little less than a month.

In The Halloween Skulls Store, I will be adding the moving arms to the list of products by next season. In the picture below Sindy is sporting the new prototype arms. They are 3D printed, of course, and pretty much completely hide the servos and wiring.

Here's an image of what Sindy and the gang look like now with their new heads and a bit of spiffing up on their wardrobe.








Some of the eyes look really blown out and too bright in the picture. In reality, they are all set to the same brightness. Certain colors seem to affect the camera more than others.

Hope everyone's Halloween is fantastic!


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## frugalfrightgirl

Dusza Beben said:


> No questions, just WOW!
> 
> 
> DB


I actually have a ton of questions. I've been making static props for years, but since last year, my husband has started getting involved. Last year he programmed our Stranger Things wall. He has never used a servo, but bought two to add to my demodog this year, and program the opening of head, and the turn of head. Since we are newbies, where do you suggest we start in learning how to use those servos correctly, or even find the right brackets? We've been to servo city, and a few hobby stores and seem to be spinning our wheels. I'll take any advice. Thanks!


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## HalloweenBob

frugalfrightgirl said:


> I actually have a ton of questions. I've been making static props for years, but since last year, my husband has started getting involved. Last year he programmed our Stranger Things wall. He has never used a servo, but bought two to add to my demodog this year, and program the opening of head, and the turn of head. Since we are newbies, where do you suggest we start in learning how to use those servos correctly, or even find the right brackets? We've been to servo city, and a few hobby stores and seem to be spinning our wheels. I'll take any advice. Thanks!


Feel free to call me and ask whatever questions you have. You can also check out my business: Halloween Skulls My phone number is on the webpage.


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## HalloweenBob

For anyone still following this thread, here is the link for the playlist of all my Sindy Skinless Videos. Every time I make a new video, it gets added to this playlist.


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