# Lite F/X 1741 fogger dissection planned



## CROGLINVAMPIRE (Sep 21, 2006)

Go for it man! Lets tear that sucker up! Ok, well YOU do it, we'll watch...


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## Otaku (Sep 10, 2004)

I opened up the fogger and pump and found that the internal spring of the pump piston had broken off at one end. That end held the O-ring retainer that prevents blow-by of the fog juice while the pump is running. Without the O-ring, no juice will enter the heater. This type of failure causes the pump to rattle very loudly when it's running. I was able to repair the retainer and replace the O-ring, and the pump now works like new. It's a pain to do this particular repair, though. I got several pics of the process and plan to disassemble the pump again to get a better set. As far as I can see, this is about as nasty a failure that you can get, barring electrical failures.
For those who may need to replace the pump altogether, I found this pump:

http://www.americandjparts.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ItemNumber=Z-MK-P &ProductLine=MINI FOG

It looks a helluva lot like the one in my Lite F/X Fogmaster, but without actually getting one, I can't be sure. I'm going to call them tomorrow and see if I can get more info. I'll have pics and such up in a few days.


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## Otaku (Sep 10, 2004)

I finished the pump repair instruction, but the PDF is too large to post here. If any are interested, let me know and we'll work out a way to get it to you.


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## tims (Nov 14, 2007)

i would love to get a copy of yoru PDF file


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## Otaku (Sep 10, 2004)

Wes Bourno has kindly offered to host the file at his website:

www.teambac.com


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## Otaku (Sep 10, 2004)

Scott Rise has posted the tutorial at his site:

http://www.modd3d.com/articles/item/lite-fx-fogger-pump-repair/catid/15

Thanks, Scott!


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## Otaku (Sep 10, 2004)

It's been a while since I checked on this post - just wondering if anyone has successfully been able to repair their foggers. I'm always curious as to device failure modes and how best to deal with them. If the repair instructions didn't work for your fogger, let me know the details and I'll see if I can come up with a way to get it working.


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## Spookzilla (Nov 4, 2007)

Otaku,

Your post inspired me to repair an older 700Watt Gemmy fogger which was not producing fog due to it being clogged up. Took it all apart blew and cleaned it all out and works like brand new! So yes your instructions were very helpful.


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## LT Scare (May 21, 2008)

I had a couple of old foggers that I was about ready to toss out when I read about using a vinegar and fog juice mixture to "flush" the unit and improve flow. Worked great on my foggers. I experimented with the mix and used more vinegar than Fjuice. 

This really gave my foggers a new lease on life. FWIW


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## terror31 (Aug 27, 2008)

Hi Otaku,

I had a fog machine quit on me before Halloween last year. I tried to repair it but didn't know what I was doing. I ended up buying a new one and then it only worked for about 30 minutes on Halloween. Needless to say I took the new one back and am still without a fog machine. 

I opened mine back up and I am not sure if the plunger had the glob of stuff surrounded by an O-ring or not but the spring isn't hooked on that side. I was a bit confused on the valve part but realized that if I pushed a small piece of wire in the hole it was like a trap door. I think it was stuck because blowing in it didn't produce air out the other side until I loosened the "trap door". Now blowing on it opens the trap. I think if I get it back together that might fix my problem. Although like I said the spring doesn't hook to anything. Can I make something? Where can I get an O-ring that size?

I have more pics if needed.


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## Otaku (Sep 10, 2004)

Hi Terror,
Your pump looks very similar to the one in my 1741 fogger. The plunger (the part that slides back and forth in the pump body) is what moves the juice through the tube. When the plunger is pulled backwards, the O-ring lifts and allows the juice to flow into the chamber. When it moves forward, the O-ring seats in the plunger bevel and the juice is pushed through the valve and into the heater. The spring-loaded valve closes afterwards and prevents the hot juice from flowing back into the pump. This cycle happens very rapidly.
Notice that the plunger (the part in the center of your pic) has a bevel on the opening of the central tube. This is where the O-ring is seated. Without that ring the juice simply flows back into the inlet tube when the plunger moves forward, resulting in no juice going to the heater. The sticky valve plate was also a likely contributor to the problem.
The small tube in the front of the pic is the one that needs the O-ring. Which end of that tube was at the beveled end of the plunger? I see what appears to be a retaining ring on the left-hand side of the tube and the end of the spring extending from the right-hand opening. You need to have something that can hold the O-ring on the end of the spring to make it seat in the plunger bevel. As far finding the O-ring goes, try various hardware stores. It's not too hard to find one that should work. Get a couple of sizes that look like they'll do the job, and see how well they work. You may be in for a bit of trial and error. One other thing - the spring must be secured at both ends of its tube, otherwise the O-ring will not seat and no juice will flow. Hope this helps.


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## terror31 (Aug 27, 2008)

This pic shows the direction I believe is how it goes together. The spring is basically flared at the end (spring is stretched in a larger spiral) to act as a catch at the bottom of the plunger (opposite the beveled edge). The hook is at the other end which doesn't quite make it out the other end of the bevel so that there is tension when it is pulled to hold the O-ring.

I know that I have to put the spring in the plunger and hold it stretched out the end of the bevel and attach the O-ring but what should I use to attach it? I assume it has to be a perfect seal. Silcone would be too flexible and take to long to dry, what about hot glue? Is there another type of product that is easily purchased at Home Depot or the like that would work?


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## terror31 (Aug 27, 2008)

Here is the closeup of the spring to show the flared end. The blurry end is where the O-ring needs to attach.


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## Otaku (Sep 10, 2004)

Cool. I see how the pump goes together now. You need to make a small plastic part to hold the O-ring. The part will need to have a small tab with a hole in it that you will thread onto the end loop of the spring. The outside diameter of the part will need to be the same as the spring. The O-ring will fit on the underside of the part with the tab going through the ring. If you take look at the pics of the repair I did on my fogger you'll see the part I'm talking about. I think hot glue would be a problem - if it breaks loose or heats and melts into the pump, it'll freeze up the plunger. The O-ring diameter does not have to be a precision fit in the bevel, and it's better to go a bit smaller rather than too large. Here's a link to the pic - check Step 7:

Lite F/X Fogger Pump Repair ? Modd3d


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## terror31 (Aug 27, 2008)

Well of course the glue would melt when it gets hot, what was I thinking. I just was picturing the dried fog juice. I guess I can find a small piece of plastic and do a bit of carving or something. I will take some pics and post my solution for others. I imagine this can be a common problem. Another idea I had is if you had a cheap 400w fogger one could maybe use that pump. I wonder if it is the same or similar pump. Would be nice to know. I have two 400w foggers I got for $30 each I will check and see.

Thanks for all your help and the how-to. I am thinking about putting a wiki on my site and would like to post your how-to with my additions if you don't mind.


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## Otaku (Sep 10, 2004)

Don't mind at all, spread the word. I read about a lot of people that are pissed about their foggers dying after a couple of hours use - maybe they'll try to do the repairs.


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## partsman (Oct 18, 2007)

オタク (Otaku),
Would that pump you posted a link to in an earlier post work on a homemade "flat-iron" fogger?


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## Otaku (Sep 10, 2004)

partsman said:


> オタク (Otaku),
> Would that pump you posted a link to in an earlier post work on a homemade "flat-iron" fogger?


I have no idea. I assume that the "flat iron" fogger is just a hot surface that you spray fog juice onto. I've never tried doing that, but since you're not pumping the juice through a venturi (the nozzle) you won't get the pressure drop and expansion effect.


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## terror31 (Aug 27, 2008)

No luck finding an O-ring that small at HD or Lowes. I did find a piece of plastic that might work to hold the spring but it might be a little to big for the plunger to enter the hole. I assume the fluid enters through the hollow plunger and the O-ring is there to seal the opening. Does it have to be an O-ring or can it be a rubber cap/plug that is tapered to fit. I would think it wouldn't be as strong to hold the spring but might be a more readily available part or easier to fabricate. How does that part actually function. The OD of the shaft on the plunger is about 4mm. 

Any ideas?


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## Otaku (Sep 10, 2004)

I imagine you could use a thin, flexible rubber washer to make the fluid seal. It will have to fit snugly around the retainer on the end of the spring so it doesn't get pushed off the retainer.
The fluid does enter through the hollow tube. When the plunger is pulled back in the pump, the vacuum created on the other side cracks open the O-ring and lets the fluid go into the chamber. When the plunger moves forward the O-ring seals the tube and the plunger pushes the fluid past the valve and into the heater tube. Rinse and repeat...


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## terror31 (Aug 27, 2008)

Excellent description on how this works. Another option I wonder about is the pump in other units. I have a Gemmy 400w that I got for $20 and there are $15 400w foggers out there. Is it possible to use those pumps for my 1000w Lite FX Fog Commander. My Lite FX has a 120v 60hz E&K (HK) Ltd. pump and the Gemmy has a Shinlet Micro pump Model DSB-4 Type 40DSB 120v 60hz. I read that you can't put a bigger pump in a small fog machine but would assume you could the other way. Also, I am not sure that my Lite FX pump isn't a comparable model anyway. I would think it would pump enough fog in to my 1000w as opposed to not enough. Any thoughts?

Thanks,


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## Desmodus (Nov 3, 2003)

I've got a different but hopefully easier problem with my old V925 Party Fogger. The poly feed-tubing dried, cracked, and broke. This is the feed line that supplies juice to the pump. It's surprisingly difficult, however, to locate a 1/16" inner diameter tubing - Home Depot, Lowes, and Radio Shack all bombed out on me. 
I'll have to find it online somewhere. I think Amazon has something that'll work.


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## Wolfbeard (Sep 22, 2008)

Desmodus said:


> I've got a different but hopefully easier problem with my old V925 Party Fogger. The poly feed-tubing dried, cracked, and broke. This is the feed line that supplies juice to the pump. It's surprisingly difficult, however, to locate a 1/16" inner diameter tubing - Home Depot, Lowes, and Radio Shack all bombed out on me.
> I'll have to find it online somewhere. I think Amazon has something that'll work.



Try an auto parts store. They have a huge variety of rubber and plastic tubing for various purposes. The tubing in my foggers looks very similar to windshield washer tubing on my car.

Eric
________
XR650L


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## Desmodus (Nov 3, 2003)

Wolfbeard said:


> Try an auto parts store. They have a huge variety of rubber and plastic tubing for various purposes. The tubing in my foggers looks very similar to windshield washer tubing on my car.
> 
> Eric


Thanks WB, I never thought of that!


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## Otaku (Sep 10, 2004)

terror31 said:


> Excellent description on how this works. Another option I wonder about is the pump in other units. I have a Gemmy 400w that I got for $20 and there are $15 400w foggers out there. Is it possible to use those pumps for my 1000w Lite FX Fog Commander. My Lite FX has a 120v 60hz E&K (HK) Ltd. pump and the Gemmy has a Shinlet Micro pump Model DSB-4 Type 40DSB 120v 60hz. I read that you can't put a bigger pump in a small fog machine but would assume you could the other way. Also, I am not sure that my Lite FX pump isn't a comparable model anyway. I would think it would pump enough fog in to my 1000w as opposed to not enough. Any thoughts?
> 
> Thanks,


I would expect that the lower output pumps would allow you to run the 1000W fogger for a longer time without stopping to re-heat, although your output will be less. You could check the pump output by disconnecting the pipe going to the heater tube, allowing the fogger to come to temperature, and running it for 10 secs. Collect the fluid in a bottle and compare the volumes. This may be more trouble than it's worth.


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## Finn (Aug 2, 2008)

Desmodus said:


> Thanks WB, I never thought of that!


They (auto parts house) probably won't have anything that small, but check anyway. Two more places you can try are Sears Hardware and a medical supply house.
Good Luck.

PS Great tag line.

Finn


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## meltdown211 (Sep 27, 2006)

I am in the midst of taking a pump from a 400watt cheapie fogger and putting it in my 1000watt fogger. It works fine! The problem I am working with now is the layout of the pump. The old pump was larger so the fittings dont fit exactly, I need a small copper reducer to connect it together, I am not sure if Home Depot will carry something like that, its small.

I am assuming that I dont need to use copper either, but I know that when copper and metal are together for long periods of time corrosion can occur. Any ideas of who may carry some of these copper fittings? Plumbing supply? 

Anyway, the pumps in almost all foggers are the same voltage, amps etc. Its the capacity and size that seem to be the biggest difference. Once I hooked the smaller pump up and got the fogger to temp, it SHOT out of the nozzle like a fire hose! If I can find the reducer I got this problem licked!


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## Finn (Aug 2, 2008)

meltdown211 said:


> I am assuming that I dont need to use copper either, but I know that when copper and metal are together for long periods of time corrosion can occur. Any ideas of who may carry some of these copper fittings? Plumbing supply?
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## Ulcerative (Sep 6, 2008)

> Originally Posted by Desmodus View Post
> I've got a different but hopefully easier problem with my old V925 Party Fogger. The poly feed-tubing dried, cracked, and broke. This is the feed line that supplies juice to the pump. It's surprisingly difficult, however, to locate a 1/16" inner diameter tubing - Home Depot, Lowes, and Radio Shack all bombed out on me.
> I'll have to find it online somewhere. I think Amazon has something that'll work.


How about aquarium airline tubing....? It's available at all pet stores that sell fish and the tubing comes in either vinyl or silicone.


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## Desmodus (Nov 3, 2003)

Finn said:


> They (auto parts house) probably won't have anything that small, but check anyway. Two more places you can try are Sears Hardware and a medical supply house.
> Good Luck.
> 
> PS Great tag line.
> ...



Thanks, I'll try that too. And the aquarium supplies.

Alice is da man!


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## Finn (Aug 2, 2008)

Desmodus said:


> Alice is da man!


Amen, Brother, Amen.


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## dpolking (Oct 8, 2004)

I've dissected my lite f/x 700 watt fogger, and found that the pump does move fluid through it when disconnected from the heater assembly. The tube between them is also clean allowing fluid flow. When connected to the heater though, the pump rattles loudly and does not move fluid. I've tried to run cleaning solution throught the heater assembly itself but it does not flow through. Is there like coiled tubing inside the heater or is it like an empty cannister inside? I'm trying to figure out if the pump just isn't functioning under pressure or if the heater is clogged beyond repair.


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## Ron R (Sep 26, 2006)

Desmodus,

Check out McMaster Carr for tubing. McMaster-Carr
Use "tubing" for your keyword search. You'll soon be up to your ears in tubing.


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## Otaku (Sep 10, 2004)

dpolking said:


> I've dissected my lite f/x 700 watt fogger, and found that the pump does move fluid through it when disconnected from the heater assembly. The tube between them is also clean allowing fluid flow. When connected to the heater though, the pump rattles loudly and does not move fluid. I've tried to run cleaning solution throught the heater assembly itself but it does not flow through. Is there like coiled tubing inside the heater or is it like an empty cannister inside? I'm trying to figure out if the pump just isn't functioning under pressure or if the heater is clogged beyond repair.


Use a socket wrench to remove the brass nozzle. Check the nozzle opening to see if there's a clog - you can clean that out with a needle. Look inside the tube opening to see if you can see any dried fluid or other debris. If you can get a long flexible nylon brush, you can swab it around in there to see if anything is stuck in the tube. Be careful, though, and don't force it in if it doesn't want to go.


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## Myra Mains (May 27, 2009)

It sounds like a lot of good sound advice here. I've taken my fogger apart and disconnected the copper tubing from the pump to the heater. The heater heats up, the pump will pump juice but no fog. any thoughts.


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## Otaku (Sep 10, 2004)

The tube inside the heater block may be clogged. Does the fog juice just sputter out of the nozzle as a liquid?
Also, there is that check valve that prevents hot fluid from backing up into the pump. Try pressing (carefully) on the disc in the valve with a small screwdriver tip and make sure it opens. And don't forget about cleaning the nozzle opening.


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## LT Scare (May 21, 2008)

You guys looking for small parts - tubing, fitting, etc.

I suggest you find a well stocked hobby store that includes those high end remote control airplanes. They should have "fuel" lines and fittings that might help you out.

Good luck


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## LT Scare (May 21, 2008)

Also, for those who haven't tried this yet ....

Before your dismantle your fogger, try using a mixture of water and white vinigar to flush out your fogger. This improved the performance on all my old foggers I had given up on ....

... except one that has a broken pump, of course.


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## skaunit (Aug 17, 2009)

Well, I just got done messing with my lite f/x 1741 and the pump won't make any noise. The unit heats up just fine, and the light goes out on the control switch, but when you press the button, nothing happens at all.

I am letting it cool down and tomorrow I am going to remove the pump and test it to see if it works with direct voltage and go from there. If it does, I'll have to check out the plunger and all that to see if I can figure out why it's not doing anything.


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## Brougham (Nov 21, 2009)

So... I have a 1741 as well... but it seems to be a slight bit different than the one in your tutorial... That or I flushed away my little plastic bit. 

Now keep in mind I started to take it apart before I read any of your information. I was very careful to take it apart and lay the parts in order. That was until I knocked the table over I was working on. 

So I have taken a picture with what I think was the order... ANY advice helps.









Lite F/X Fog Machine Model 1741 on Twitpic


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## Brougham (Nov 21, 2009)

Does everyone else's have the spring piece with the rubber on it right before the elbow? Am I just missing that little rubber hat on the long skinny spring?


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## MikeBru (Jul 30, 2009)

Good stuff here. I will bookmark this.
As for the o-rings. I have recently seen o-rings for sale at Harbor Freight. Otherwise, motorcycle dealers, automotive parts stores and carb rebuild kits have all been sources of pretty tiny o-rings for me in the past. Motorcycle forks and carbs also have small o-rings in them, so look for rebuild kits or just order the rings at the parts counter. I hope this helps you out.


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