# Coffin MIB with DMX Control



## yardhauntjunkie (Feb 26, 2009)

It is going to be cool to see the evolution of this prop.


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

*Ooooh,* very exciting to see this fleshed out. I love all the extra action that you are going to put into this. My coffin lacked a pay-off and yours looks like it will do that in spades!


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

Terra,
Thank you very much for the vote of confidence.


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

it certainly looks like you have all the bases covered, remember when you come to programming the DMX routines you don't have to stick with just the one routine, you can have multiple routines which either trigger randomly or can be set to different triggers..... One ide that comes to mind is have a low moaning routines, then a more violent rocking routine and the final jump and scream routine, this way if you have the time to play you can select which routine to play to give the best effect.

I do this with my MiB, I have a low impact routine that just attracts attention, and when they get just that little bit too close I hit them with a scare routine


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

Phoenix,
That sounds like a great idea. The first routine will just run then pause then run again in a loop but when someone triggers a pressure plate or PIR then the real scare would hit them. I can't wait!


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

yeah that works, people are fairly wise to looped routine players, and once they have your prop figured as one then they will relax and not expect anything else, leaving them vulnerable to a scare


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## Rev. Noch (Sep 2, 2008)

How is this coming along? 

How are you covering up the components of the coffin when it opens up for the finale?

This is a great idea to enhance the coffin, I can't wait to see more. The drawback is that I may end up being tempted to upgrade my coffin and I have enough on my plate as it is.


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

Noch,
I have not finalized how I will cover up the internals. I have placed as much as possible down at the feet end. I was thinking of putting in a false bottom over that end and painting in some leg bones and maybe the front half of some feet. I think it will work because the rotting skeleton popping up and screaming will be kind of distracting


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## Kenpilot (Jul 9, 2007)

SpookySteve said:


> Noch,
> I have not finalized how I will cover up the internals. I have placed as much as possible down at the feet end. I was thinking of puttin in a false bottom over that end and painting in some leg bones. I think it will work because the rotting skeleton popping up and screaming will be kind of distracting


I was thinking along the same lines Spookysteve. Kind of have a "false" floor over everything, painted black to hide it even more so. And like you said, It will be pretty quick and startling that I highly doubt anybody will notice anything.


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

Especially with the coffin and the surounding area filled with fog.


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## Rev. Noch (Sep 2, 2008)

SpookySteve said:


> Especially with the coffin and the surounding area filled with fog.


Sounds fantastic. I can't wait to see it finished up.


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

*Pictures of Coffin in Progress*

Here are some pictures of the coffin itself before I really started to install the guts.
Full Side View

View of the Head Section with one of the 4 lifting air cylinders before being mounted.

The foot end of the coffing with another of the lifting air cylinders before mounting.


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## DannyK (Sep 21, 2008)

nicely coming along. Checked out the album and I like the pop-up mech too, looks very effective and you kept it simple.

a couple of questions though...did you distress the wood for the coffin or did you just grab scraps and leave them in the back yard for a year? Also, what size is the cylinder and where did you purchase it?

thanks in advance,

-DK


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

Danny,
The wood I used was used crate lid material. I built the coffin 3 years ago and it has been stored outside the whole time. Nothing like nature to make something look old! 

As for the air cylinders:
-4 lifting cylinders: 1 1/2" Bore x 1" Stroke
-Got them from my works used automation equipment they were throwing away

-Pop-Up cylinder: 1 1/16" Bore x 5" Stroke (probably could have used 4" or maybe even 3")
-Purchased from www.McMaster.com (6498K657)

-Lid Lifting cylinder: 1 1/4" Bore x 5" Stroke
-Found it on Ebay


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

*DMX Relay Board*

I am using the Milford DMX Relay board 1-493, DMX Controllers. Total cost for delivery from the UK is ~$97. This same board can be found in the US at Blue Point Engineering but the cost is over $200 delivered for the exact same board. 
This is an 8 relay DMX board. It can be ordered in either 12 or 24 VDC version. It can also be ordered with a case but I already had a case. See how I mounted the board below.

-The flat ribbon cable comming out of the top connects to the solenoid manifold
-The top wire on the right side is the connection to my fog machine
-The next wire down is the 12VDC power in from my hacket Computer Power supply
-the next two wires are the DMX In and Out

Here is a picture with the case closed.

Here is the right side showing the inputs and outputs.

Here is the top showing the flat ribbon cable. I scavaged this from one of the computers my company was getting rid of.


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

*Converted Computer Power Supply*

Here are pictures of my modified computer power supply that I scavaged from a computer that my company was getting rid of.
Top view


Here are the 12 and 5 VDC + & - outputs


Here are some good websites with instructions for modifying a computer power supply.
Converting a PC Power Supply
How to Convert a Computer ATX Power Supply to a Lab Power Supply (with video) - wikiHow


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## Kenpilot (Jul 9, 2007)

SpookySteve said:


> Danny,
> The wood I used was used crate lid material. I built the coffin 3 years ago and it has been stored outside the whole time. Nothing like nature to make something look old!
> 
> As for the air cylinders:
> ...


A couple newbie questions for ya:

Are those single or double action cylinders and any reason for those bore sizes or is it pretty much just what u had on hand? thanks!


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

Ken,
All of the cylinders that I am using are double acting but I now realize that for the pop-up one it only needs to be a single acting, as long as you don't let the pop-up bar go past vertical. I believe that the lid cylinder could also be a single actin one as long as the lid also does not go past vertical. Double acting does allow you to close the lid faster than gravity will but may not be needed. Now that I think about it the lifting cylinders at the four corners could be single acting with no spring return but those I scavaged so I am using double acting. 

As for lid cylinder bore size the lid needs to be that size to provide the power to lift the lid from the inside next to the hinge. 
The pop-up needs to be at least the size I mentioned to be able to lift anything but a paper prop. Once I finish my skeleton I will find out if I need to go to a bigger bore. 

The lifting cylinders may be able to be smaller depending upon how much your coffin will weigh, how far from the point of rotation they are located, the opposite side of the coffin and where the center of mass is located relative to the point of rotation. The McMaster website tells you how much force each bore can privide at 100 PSI.


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## Kenpilot (Jul 9, 2007)

SpookySteve said:


> Ken,
> All of the cylinders that I am using are double acting but I now realize that for the pop-up one it only needs to be a single acting, as long as you don't let the pop-up bar go past vertical. I believe that the lid cylinder could also be a single actin one as long as the lid also does not go past vertical. Double acting does allow you to close the lid faster than gravity will but may not be needed. Now that I think about it the lifting cylinders at the four corners could be single acting with no spring return but those I scavaged so I am using double acting.
> 
> As for lid cylinder bore size the lid needs to be that size to provide the power to lift the lid from the inside next to the hinge.
> ...


Thanks for the Info! Im kinda new to the whole pneumatic world and I'm starting to figure out all the cylinder and relay stuff. Ive got a pretty good jist on it for now. 

Another newbie question for ya. For the lid lifting cylinder your using a 5 inch throw. During the routine are you lifting the lid all the way to "tease" the TOTS or just an inch or two to set up the scare and then waiting till the end to open it all the way for the pop up? If so, how do you set up the cylinder so it only opens a couple inches instead of the full length of the cylinder? Thanks!


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

That is a good questions. I want to have the lid just open a little and slam around during the routine. Then for the big scare I want it to open all the way and then pop up the skeleton. I am hopping that by controling the time that the solenoid valve is open that I will be able to control the amount of opening and closing that the lid does. I have not gotten that far yet. It is going to be a month or more before I get to that point as I am going on vacation in two weeks for two weeks.


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## Kenpilot (Jul 9, 2007)

SpookySteve said:


> That is a good questions. I want to have the lid just open a little and slam around during the routine. Then for the big scare I want it to open all the way and then pop up the skeleton. I am hopping that by controling the time that the solenoid valve is open that I will be able to control the amount of opening and closing that the lid does. I have not gotten that far yet. It is going to be a month or more before I get to that point as I am going on vacation in two weeks for two weeks.


OK i thought of that too but wasnt sure if it would work or not. Guess I can order one and see if it works or not and let ya know when you get back from vacation. Who am I supposed to harass and ask newbie questions to while your gone?!  Have a great time and talk to ya when you get back!  Thanks again for everything. 

Ps: Where did you end up attaching the Lid Lifting Cylinder in the coffin?


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

Im still avaliable for questions for the next two weeks


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## Kenpilot (Jul 9, 2007)

SpookySteve said:


> Im still avaliable for questions for the next two weeks


Woo hoo!  Where did you end up (if you have gotten that far) attaching the lid opening cylinder?


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

I have gotten as far as manufacturing the mounting brackets and thinking about the rest


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## Kenpilot (Jul 9, 2007)

SpookySteve said:


> I have gotten as far as manufacturing the mounting brackets and thinking about the rest


K no problemo. I just ordered the cylinder and "lift kit" from frightprops. After looking to see what it would take and cost to add 4 more cylinders to make the coffin jump around at the 4 corners, I decided against that for mine. So I'm looking at just using pneumatics for the lid opening and closing, then open at the end and with the pop up.


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

I understand about the cost. I just lucked out that my company was trowing away a bunch.


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## Kenpilot (Jul 9, 2007)

SpookySteve said:


> I understand about the cost. I just lucked out that my company was trowing away a bunch.


Gotta love scoring free stuff!


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

*Does a coffin need feet, Yes.*

Here you can see one of the 4 lifting cylinders, before mounting, with one of the 4 feet I made attached. The feet are nothing more than a 4"x4" pieces of metal with a nut welded to it. The nut is then threaded onto the end of the air cylinder shaft. Now the coffin can be used on soft ground.


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

*Foot Cylinder Mounting*

The picture below shows one of the mounted lifting cylinders.

Here are the mounting steps and the reasoning behind each step.

1. I mounted a short section of 1"x4", the light wood behind the cylinder, for two reasons. The first was to increase the wall thickness where the cylinder would be mounted. This was to help distribute the force of the cylinder movind the coffin around. The second was to move the cylinder more twords the center of the coffin. This was so that the foot attached to it would not stick out past the side of the coffin.

2. I mounted the 4 foot cylinders by attaching a nose mounting bracket to the front of each cylinder. This mounting method keeps the cylinder from pivoting because I want them to push straight down.

3. I then drilled a hole in the bottom of the coffin to allow the rod to stick thru so that the foot could be placed on the outside of the coffin but still attached to the cylinder rod. See picture below.


4. Next I drilled 1/4" mounting holes thru the side of the coffin. I then installed 1/4" carriage bolts from the outside. Carriage bolts have a rounded head with a square sholder underneath. The are designed to be installed in wood. The reason that I used bolts thru the wall instead of screws was because the bolts are a much stronger connection method. I want this to last for years without any repairs. You can see the bolts attached to the cylinder in the first picture.


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

So, am I guessing that somewhere in the routine the *entire* coffin will rise up???!!! That's *so* cool!


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

SpookySteve said:


> That is a good questions. I want to have the lid just open a little and slam around during the routine. Then for the big scare I want it to open all the way and then pop up the skeleton. I am hopping that by controling the time that the solenoid valve is open that I will be able to control the amount of opening and closing that the lid does. I have not gotten that far yet. It is going to be a month or more before I get to that point as I am going on vacation in two weeks for two weeks.


if you have a spare channel then mount a second short stroke cylinder next to the main banging cylinder, put in a flow restrictor to make it extend slowly then that could be your peek cylinder and then when you want banging use the other cylinder.

Alternatively you would need to use 5/3 valves.

there is anotehr alternative using the 3/2 valves you've already got, but it involves using a couple of special 'locking' valves on the cylinders


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## Kenpilot (Jul 9, 2007)

Hey Sookysteve, did you make the Pop up mechanism ( if so how) or where did you get it from and how much if I may ask? Thanks!


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

Phoenix
I do have a spare channel and an extra cylinder but I was hoping to leave it for controling a third Splash unit mounted on the outside of the coffin. I may not have the lid bang around since the entire coffin will be jumping. I will have to finish my installation and then try it out to see if I need the lid banging to get the effect I want.


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

Ken,
I made my pop-up mechanism by welding 1" square tube together. If you plan on building your own let me know and I can try and answer any questions you may have.


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## Kenpilot (Jul 9, 2007)

SpookySteve said:


> Ken,
> I made my pop-up mechanism by welding 1" square tube together. If you plan on building your own let me know and I can try and answer any questions you may have.


K thanks. Unfortunately I've never welded before and don't have the equipment for it so I'm stuck with either buying one, which to me is way too pricey, or building my own using alternative materials. I actually just posted another thread asking if anybody has ever built a pop up mechanism using wood and hinges or PVC. ( Obviously I will be using proper pneumatic cylinders for it though) I've see a couple How To's using those materials and curious as to how safe they are. To me if they are properly secured it shouldnt be a problem. What do you think?


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

It is definately possible. Check this out Coffin Sit Up
They use a door closing cylinder but you could just replace that with a real air cylinder but keep everything else pretty much the same.


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## Kenpilot (Jul 9, 2007)

SpookySteve said:


> It is definately possible. Check this out Coffin Sit Up
> They use a door closing cylinder but you could just replace that with a real air cylinder but keep everything else pretty much the same.


Yep, thats one of the ones I was looking at using PVC. I figured if I did it that way, using PVC Cement and screws, it would hold together pretty well  And yes, using a normal pneumatic cylinder and not the door closing cylinder.


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## Kenpilot (Jul 9, 2007)

Hey Spookysteve, hows it going? Just thought Id check in and see how your build is coming? I finished mine but decided to go without the popup for this year. The price of the prop was starting to get a lil too high so I am going without. Next year is another year though!  Good luck with yours and let me know how it turns out!


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## LT Scare (May 21, 2008)

Sounds like a great prop in the making. How about some pics?!


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

Will try and post some pics and a video of a system test tonight.


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## SpookySteve (Aug 15, 2008)

*Pneumatic System Functional Tests*

Here is a functional test of the pneumatic system.


and here is a pneumatic systems test with the lid included. You can see that the lid does not open to a full 90º. That is because the air cylinder that I scrounged does not have enought stroke length. It is 8" but I need about 9.5". I have a 10" stroke x 1.16" bore on order from Automation Direct. It should be here early next week so when I install it I will post another video. As a note the lid cylinder needs to have a pivot mount on the end that mounts to the coffin side wall and a pivot mount on the rod end that mounts to the underside of the lid. This allows the cylinder to retact and fold inside of the coffin. I will try and post some pics and video of the mounting of this cylinder soon.


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

Yes, that is pretty *COOOOL!*


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## LT Scare (May 21, 2008)

Absolutely awesome!


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## WindyCityCouple (Oct 13, 2008)

Wow that is neat!! I am sooooo overwhelmed with all this but I am not giving up!!


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## WindyCityCouple (Oct 13, 2008)

Ok I am back on this project!!!

Terra you out there?!??!?!?


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

@windy, where are you stuck, I may be able to give a hand


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## Terra (Sep 23, 2007)

Yep, I'm here to but I defer to Phoenix. He's the one who taught me


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## WindyCityCouple (Oct 13, 2008)

Sigh

Hard to say. I am trying to figure out how to get a fog machine that integrates into the DMX. I may have waited to long to get this started though....Much bigger task than I planned for.




Phoenix_AU_was_UK said:


> @windy, where are you stuck, I may be able to give a hand


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

fog machines are easy, you have two options


1) use a DMX fog machine, this is costly, but very easy option

2) use a DMX relay card and hack the fogging button on a regular fog machine... this is relatively easy, but needs doing with a little care, some fog machines run mains voltate to the pendant

my MiB uses the second version, since I had an 8 way relay card in the biox it was the way to go


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## WindyCityCouple (Oct 13, 2008)

I have been looking for DMX foggers but you are right the cheapest I can find is $269. A bit more than I want to spend. I have been reading the threads on hacking a fogger control button but not sure I am up for the challenge (not super electronic literate). On the hack does the relay get wired into the fogger switch on one side and a regular power plug on the other side that plugs into a DMX box??


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

WindyCityCouple said:


> I have been looking for DMX foggers but you are right the cheapest I can find is $269. A bit more than I want to spend. I have been reading the threads on hacking a fogger control button but not sure I am up for the challenge (not super electronic literate). On the hack does the relay get wired into the fogger switch on one side and a regular power plug on the other side that plugs into a DMX box??



To wire a fogger to a relay you need to open up the pendant/switch that you manually press to turn fog on.

When you have the switch its then fairly easy to identify the circuit that is made/broken by the actuation of the button, and you wire the relay into this.

Some cheap foggers use a mains voltage for this circuit, and I'm particularly thinking about the small 'walmart' ones, with these its a little harder, because the switch has three wires and they carry mains AC, what I did with this one was glue the switch closed then break the signal wire and wire the relay into the break.


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## WindyCityCouple (Oct 13, 2008)

Ok so assuming I buy a fogger that doesnt have current running through the switch I "unwire" the switch, placing the two leads into the relay. I get that concept (I think). 

Now on the other side of the relay I mount a normal 120V power cord? And if I understand all this that power cord will trip the relay, and therefore the fogger switch (and make fog), whenever the power cord recieves power right?

If I am correct in all of that the next question is how do I know what relay to buy? Would this be a correct one: http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/4PRLY-120N/4PDT-120-VAC-ICE-CUBE-RELAY/1.html







Phoenix_AU_was_UK said:


> To wire a fogger to a relay you need to open up the pendant/switch that you manually press to turn fog on.
> 
> When you have the switch its then fairly easy to identify the circuit that is made/broken by the actuation of the button, and you wire the relay into this.
> 
> Some cheap foggers use a mains voltage for this circuit, and I'm particularly thinking about the small 'walmart' ones, with these its a little harder, because the switch has three wires and they carry mains AC, what I did with this one was glue the switch closed then break the signal wire and wire the relay into the break.


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

No, the power cord must be permanently connected to the mains power supply, without this the fogger cant preheat.

In addition to power cords manual foggers have a control pendant that has a switch to activate the fogging (once the fogger is hot enough) , some even have a wireless pendant, Ive got one with a wireless pendant, and just opened up the pendant and added a couple of extra connections to the button so I could mount a relay.

The relay you need must be DMX controllable, same as for the pneumatic cylinders, you cant use a regular relay unless you have some kind of DMX board that can be connected to it.


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## WindyCityCouple (Oct 13, 2008)

I understand the fogger needs to be plugged in, I was planning on using a DMX controller like this:

Amazon.com: Optima Lighting MATRIX DMX 4 channel Double Output Dimmer Pack: Musical Instruments

Where the DMX cevice is controlled with a 120V power line. So wouldnt I plug the fogger into a steady power source and a 120V relay into the device above?


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## WindyCityCouple (Oct 13, 2008)

Or are you saying I would be better off using a different DMX control?


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## Rev. Noch (Sep 2, 2008)

WindyCityCouple said:


> Or are you saying I would be better off using a different DMX control?


That control box will work. I would still consider using a relay just to make sure and isolate the two circuits. You would need to make sure that your relay has a mains voltage (120VAC in the US) coil. Using mains is a little more dangerous than say if you used 12vDC to trigger your relay, so I would just make sure that everything is out of the way of your visitors. Another consideration is that I have had some trouble running relays off of that type of dimmer. The relay just jitters uncontrollably. I believe that the way to correct it is to leave an electrical load on the other outlet. This can be done by leaving something plugged into the 2nd outlet on the same channel with the relay. The only trouble is that this second item would be activated at the same time you activate your relay. So if this were say a string of christmas lights, they would turn on at the same time you want your relay to trigger.

Another option would be to get a DMX board that can trigger low voltage relays. Low voltage is a bit more safe. This is the option I would choose even though it may be a tiny bit more work to hook it up. Personally I recommend a Medusa from Hooked_On_Scares from this board. The Medusa is only a tiny bit more expensive than the dimmer pack that was posted, but it can do so much more. It has servo controls, 8 dimmer channels and 8 switch channels.


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## WindyCityCouple (Oct 13, 2008)

Sounds like low voltage is the way to go, I just never realized it was an option. I did a search for Medusa, and Hooked_On_Scares but nothing shows up. Is there a website that shows the controller you are suggesting?




Rev. Noch said:


> That control box will work. I would still consider using a relay just to make sure and isolate the two circuits. You would need to make sure that your relay has a mains voltage (120VAC in the US) coil. Using mains is a little more dangerous than say if you used 12vDC to trigger your relay, so I would just make sure that everything is out of the way of your visitors. Another consideration is that I have had some trouble running relays off of that type of dimmer. The relay just jitters uncontrollably. I believe that the way to correct it is to leave an electrical load on the other outlet. This can be done by leaving something plugged into the 2nd outlet on the same channel with the relay. The only trouble is that this second item would be activated at the same time you activate your relay. So if this were say a string of christmas lights, they would turn on at the same time you want your relay to trigger.
> 
> Another option would be to get a DMX board that can trigger low voltage relays. Low voltage is a bit more safe. This is the option I would choose even though it may be a tiny bit more work to hook it up. Personally I recommend a Medusa from Hooked_On_Scares from this board. The Medusa is only a tiny bit more expensive than the dimmer pack that was posted, but it can do so much more. It has servo controls, 8 dimmer channels and 8 switch channels.


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## Rev. Noch (Sep 2, 2008)

WindyCityCouple said:


> Sounds like low voltage is the way to go, I just never realized it was an option. I did a search for Medusa, and Hooked_On_Scares but nothing shows up. Is there a website that shows the controller you are suggesting?


Here is a link to his profile page here on HF. He'll be happy to help you out as well with getting it up and running.

http://www.halloweenforum.com/members/hooked_on_scares.html


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

Sorry, I forgot that some people use these dimmer packs as DMX switches, as rev says they work, but not the best way forward


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## WindyCityCouple (Oct 13, 2008)

Appreciate all the help guys! Nothing worse than dropping a bunch of cash on a wrong path.





Phoenix_AU_was_UK said:


> Sorry, I forgot that some people use these dimmer packs as DMX switches, as rev says they work, but not the best way forward


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## WindyCityCouple (Oct 13, 2008)

Ok.....

I get how the pneumatic cylinders work, and I just ordered the Medusa board. I am lost on the device that I wire the medusa board to, which sends the air to the cylinders when activated by the board. What is it? Where do I buy it? Do I need one for each cylinder or is there one that can have 8 "valves" and control all the pneumatics???

God my head hurts....


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## Rev. Noch (Sep 2, 2008)

WindyCityCouple said:


> Ok.....
> 
> I get how the pneumatic cylinders work, and I just ordered the Medusa board. I am lost on the device that I wire the medusa board to, which sends the air to the cylinders when activated by the board. What is it? Where do I buy it? Do I need one for each cylinder or is there one that can have 8 "valves" and control all the pneumatics???
> 
> God my head hurts....


To actuate the cylinders using a Medusa, you'll need a solenoid valve. To decide on which valves to get, you need to know what type of cylinder you are using. If you are using a single acting cylinder with a spring return, you would want a 3 port, 3 way, 2 position Valve. If you have double acting cylinders, which use air to both extend and retract the piston, then you would likely want a 5 port, 4 way, 2 position valve. They do make manifolds so you can stack the Solenoid Valves together. The best prices I have seen this season have been from http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Pneumatic_Components or from http://www.frightprops.com/pneumatics.html. Please make sure that you make note of what voltage triggers the solenoid you are buying. Commonly you can get them in 12vdc, 24vdc and 120VAC. I do recommend using a relay between the controller board and the solenoid just to be on the safe side. So make sure that you have relays that are triggered by the voltage you are supplying to the medusa switch channels that can handle the type of voltage you are supplying to the solenoids. 

If you are needing more information on the setup of the pneumatics, there are lots of resources on the internet, but here is a quick thread I found on this board about it:
http://www.halloweenforum.com/halloween-props/59979-so-you-want-build-pneumatic-prop.html


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## WindyCityCouple (Oct 13, 2008)

So the solenoids get wired to independant power, then you wire the Medusa seperately to the solenoid to trigger the power and open/close the solenoid? The medusa doesnt actually power the solenoid?

I saw the link you posted to building pneumatic props. It was helpful but all the pics have lapsed so without images I am still struggling a bit. 

Thanks tons for the help!!!




Rev. Noch said:


> To actuate the cylinders using a Medusa, you'll need a solenoid valve. To decide on which valves to get, you need to know what type of cylinder you are using. If you are using a single acting cylinder with a spring return, you would want a 3 port, 3 way, 2 position Valve. If you have double acting cylinders, which use air to both extend and retract the piston, then you would likely want a 5 port, 4 way, 2 position valve. They do make manifolds so you can stack the Solenoid Valves together. The best prices I have seen this season have been from http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Pneumatic_Components or from http://www.frightprops.com/pneumatics.html. Please make sure that you make note of what voltage triggers the solenoid you are buying. Commonly you can get them in 12vdc, 24vdc and 120VAC. I do recommend using a relay between the controller board and the solenoid just to be on the safe side. So make sure that you have relays that are triggered by the voltage you are supplying to the medusa switch channels that can handle the type of voltage you are supplying to the solenoids.
> 
> If you are needing more information on the setup of the pneumatics, there are lots of resources on the internet, but here is a quick thread I found on this board about it:
> http://www.halloweenforum.com/halloween-props/59979-so-you-want-build-pneumatic-prop.html


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## Rev. Noch (Sep 2, 2008)

WindyCityCouple said:


> So the solenoids get wired to independant power, then you wire the Medusa seperately to the solenoid to trigger the power and open/close the solenoid? The medusa doesnt actually power the solenoid?
> 
> I saw the link you posted to building pneumatic props. It was helpful but all the pics have lapsed so without images I am still struggling a bit.
> 
> Thanks tons for the help!!!


The medusa is able to operate the solenoids directly if the voltage you are supplying the switch circuit matches the solenoid voltage and if you don't exceed the Medusa's amperage limit. I just suggested using the relays as default to make sure that you are not exceeding that amp limit as well as have the ability to change the supply voltage to match if needed.

Here is some more information I found. See if any of this is useful. I can't see the videos here at work because they are blocked, but I think they may be more of what you are looking for:
http://www.frightprops.com/magento/support-pneumatics


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## WindyCityCouple (Oct 13, 2008)

Again very much appreciate your advice. I totally dont get relays. I am slowly wrapping my brain around the pneumatic stuff but I fear introducing relays is gonna kill me.








Rev. Noch said:


> The medusa is able to operate the solenoids directly if the voltage you are supplying the switch circuit matches the solenoid voltage and if you don't exceed the Medusa's amperage limit. I just suggested using the relays as default to make sure that you are not exceeding that amp limit as well as have the ability to change the supply voltage to match if needed.
> 
> Here is some more information I found. See if any of this is useful. I can't see the videos here at work because they are blocked, but I think they may be more of what you are looking for:
> http://www.frightprops.com/magento/support-pneumatics


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## WindyCityCouple (Oct 13, 2008)

I also hesitate on the Frightprops stuff because it seems pretty expensive and they dont seem to have solenoids that can stack.

I am trying to do a Terra vampire coffin, with the addition of four feet that will rock the coffin like the MIB coffin (not sure I can afford a pop up and coffin opener yet. Thats four solenoids for the feet under the coffin (single acting I think), one (maybe two) for the coffin lid pounding and raising (single acting again I think). So it would be nice to get a solenoid type that can stack. Now I just have to figure out what is medusas amperage limit....

Ugh. Everytime I make progress I fall back....






Rev. Noch said:


> The medusa is able to operate the solenoids directly if the voltage you are supplying the switch circuit matches the solenoid voltage and if you don't exceed the Medusa's amperage limit. I just suggested using the relays as default to make sure that you are not exceeding that amp limit as well as have the ability to change the supply voltage to match if needed.
> 
> Here is some more information I found. See if any of this is useful. I can't see the videos here at work because they are blocked, but I think they may be more of what you are looking for:
> http://www.frightprops.com/magento/support-pneumatics


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

Relays for Dummies

Relays are basically switches, they comprise of two main components, the coil and the contacts

The significance of the relay is that its an electrically operated switch, the coil is basically an electromagnet, and when its supplied with power then it becomes magnetic and activates the switch part.

The contacts are exactly the same as you would find on any other switch, except that there may be more of them, but they will all operate simultaneously

To understand the simultaneous operation, look at a wall light switch that has several switches, each switch controls a different light and they can be operated independently

However, if you glued them together then they would operate at the same time, this is like the multi way relay

when buying a relay there are three important factors

1) coil type, this should be rated by your switching circuit, for instance if you were going to use the dimmer pack then you would want a 110VAC coil, if you are using a 24VDC circult then you need a 24VDC coil, likewise you can get coils suitable for 240VAC, 12VDC, 5VDC.

2) contactor rating, this is the rating of the circuit that you want to turn on/off, there are two important factors, voltage and current, if you are turning on a 100W mains light then you will need a 110VAC 1amp relay (minimum), if you are controlling a 1500W heater then you will need 13amps

3) contactor type, often you see relays describe as SPDC or DPDC, these mean Single/Double Pole single pole relays can only turn something on/off, double pole relays can also switch between two circuits, going back to switch analogies, if a room has just a single light switch then it could be a single pole switch, however, if you have a corridor with a switch at eitehr end then these would need to be double pole switches.
The Contractors are the number of switches controlled simultaneously by the relay, SC (single contact) has just one swithc, DC (double contact) has two


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## WindyCityCouple (Oct 13, 2008)

Sounds like I need to do a mini order and play with real stuff. So if I did relays for lets say 8 solenoids I would have to have a relay for each solenoid. The Medusa would trigger a relay using the power of the Medusa board. I would then have to supply seperate power to the other side of the relay with a different source to power the solenoid?


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

EXACTLY......, one relay per device you want to control, match the coils to the voltage supplied by the medusa, and the contacts to whatever you want to turn on/off... once you have played with a couple of relays you will wonder what all the fuss was about


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## Rev. Noch (Sep 2, 2008)

Thanks for clearing that up a bit Phoenix.

When it's boiled down, relays are just a switch for turning things off/on. They can look a bit intimidating on the surface but just remember that's all they are.


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## WindyCityCouple (Oct 13, 2008)

Yea I think you hit it on the head. I need to just go and buy some stuff and start messing with it. I am trying to have it 100% understood before I order anything and I just dont think thats gonna happen. Clear to me this is a summer project versus a few weeks before Halloween but maybe I can get my coffin to at least bounce around a bit this year!




Phoenix_AU_was_UK said:


> EXACTLY......, one relay per device you want to control, match the coils to the voltage supplied by the medusa, and the contacts to whatever you want to turn on/off... once you have played with a couple of relays you will wonder what all the fuss was about


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## WindyCityCouple (Oct 13, 2008)

That said before I order a set to play with......

Do I want 1/8" orifices or 1/4"?

God it never ends....


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## Rev. Noch (Sep 2, 2008)

WindyCityCouple said:


> That said before I order a set to play with......
> 
> Do I want 1/8" orifices or 1/4"?
> 
> God it never ends....


1/4" is typically what comes directly out of an air compressor, that's what I get. Though if something is different you can always adapt it with a reducer.


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## Nepboard (Sep 21, 2009)

Looking Good. Can't wait for the result!


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