# Interesting Halloween Facts!



## halinar (Oct 10, 2005)

Shhhhh don't let out the secret that we Irish have a holiday that does not involve drinking in some way!!!


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## Mangler (Sep 29, 2008)

Just a little follow-up to No 1

Samhain is pronounced "sah-van" or "sow-in" (where "ow" rhymes with "cow"). 

Samhain is Irish Gaelic for the month of November. 
Samhuin is Scottish Gaelic for All Hallows, Nov 1. 

The Festival of Samhain was celebrated the night before on Oct 31


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## Frankie's Girl (Aug 27, 2007)

All Hallows Eve...

Hallows means holy or to respect or honor greatly; revere.

So Halloween is sort of like Christmas eve.

But better.


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## Cadaverino (Dec 10, 2007)

The Halloween Goblin said:


> 6-Dressing up in costumes came the ancient celts. They thought spirits and ghosts roamed the countryside on Halloween night, so they wore masks and costumes to avoid being recognized as human!


Many popular histories of Halloween claim this, but I have yet to find any pre-20th century source for this.


The Halloween Goblin said:


> Jack-o-lanterns originated in Ireland. They put candles in hollowed-out turnips to keep away spirits and ghosts. Pumpkins were later brought back from the new world and quickly became more popular. The name "Jack" came from the story of a miser named Jack who died and couldn't get into heaven because he had been a miser all his life. He had tricked the devil out of soul and couldn't get into hell either. The devil told Jack he was doomed to wander tthrough darkness the rest of eternity and threw a glowing coal to light his way. Jack placed the coal in a turnip and used it as a lantern....and the Jack-o-lantern was born.


Not directly. The term "jack-o'-lantern" was first applied to carved vegetable lanterns in America (in 1837), not Britain or Ireland. In Britain and Ireland, from the mid-1600s to at least 1920, "jack-o'-lantern" referred only to the "will-o'-the-wisp" phenomenon. More here.


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## Mistress of the Abyss (Sep 21, 2007)

Those are really kewl facts about the history of this wonderful holiday.

Thanks so much!


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## Deadna (Oct 19, 2002)

Interesting! Number 5 got me thinking where it said halloween as we know it started in the early 1900's. My mom is nearly 80 and I can't remember her ever talking about TOTing as a kid. I'll have to ask her how things were back then!


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## rockplayson (Jun 7, 2008)

That's neat. Thanks for sharing.


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## RRguy (Jul 14, 2007)

I see many of the members here have done their homework. It's interesting that a holiday that originated in another country has become so huge here in the USA. The amount of celebrating and money spent on this holiday is amazing.


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## Cadaverino (Dec 10, 2007)

Deadna said:


> Interesting! Number 5 got me thinking where it said halloween as we know it started in the early 1900's. My mom is nearly 80 and I can't remember her ever talking about TOTing as a kid. I'll have to ask her how things were back then!


From Wikipedia:


> Trick-or-treating may have developed in America independent of any Irish or British antecedent. There is little primary documentation of masking or costuming on Halloween — in Ireland, the UK, or America — before 1900. The earliest known reference to ritual begging on Halloween in English speaking North America occurs in 1911, when a newspaper in Kingston, Ontario, near the border of upstate New York, reported that it was normal for the smaller children to go street guising (see below) on Halloween between 6 and 7 p.m., visiting shops and neighbors to be rewarded with nuts and candies for their rhymes and songs. Another isolated reference appears, place unknown, in 1915, with a third reference in Chicago in 1920. The thousands of Halloween postcards produced between the turn of the 20th century and the 1920s commonly show children but do not depict trick-or-treating. Ruth Edna Kelley, in her 1919 history of the holiday, _The Book of Hallowe'en_, makes no mention of such a custom in the chapter "Hallowe'en in America." It does not seem to have become a widespread practice until the 1930s, with the earliest known uses in print of the term "trick or treat" appearing in 1934, and the first use in a national publication occurring in 1939.


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## Jezzie (Sep 28, 2008)

Here is Australia they automatically associate Halloween with America. It drives me insane because they really don't understand or know the beginnings or history of the day. And when you tell them they look at you like you have ten heads or something because you know the history. Most of my friends here think I'm the crazy Yank, but oh well it gets them to celebrate the day and the Halloween bash we have is usually talked about at every other party through out the year!


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

#1 is a little misleading

1.1. Yes the Celtic/pagan harvest festival was called Samhain pronounced sow-in
1.2. the Celts had no concept of October let alone 31st, the actual dates were set by lunar cycles
1.3. The Romans had a separate festival at the same time of the year called the festival of the dead where they celebrated the lives of the recently deceased, and they deliberately located it in the calendar to subjugate the Celtic festivals.
1.4. Pope Boniface IV instigated All Saints day on NOVEMBER 1st and also instigated the tradition of All Hallows eve and the idea that the lost souls of purgatory should roam the earth for 48 hours, he deliberately placed it on the calendar to subjugate teh festival of the dead AND that pesky Samhain that was still in existence!

over the centuries there have been a lot of parties with an interest in erasing and claiming credit for the end of October festivals, and consequently the truth is very hard to dissect, the only thing that's known for sure is that there are traditional festivals and that organisations with an interest in controlling the beliefs of the populous have sought to use these festivals to their own means


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## halinar (Oct 10, 2005)

The history channel did a "hitory of halloween" a while back and it run every October. Pretty good show on giving the highlights of the big parts of Halloween. It's out on DVD also, worth picking up for a little mid year motivation.


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## Annea (Aug 14, 2004)

All Saints day is big here, its a day for putting flowers on the graves of loved ones, I believe it may have been the same in the UK before Henry VIII took control of the church.


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## Buggula (Jun 26, 2008)

RRguy said:


> I see many of the members here have done their homework. It's interesting that a holiday that originated in another country has become so huge here in the USA. The amount of celebrating and money spent on this holiday is amazing.


Ironically, Halloween isn't anything like as popular any more in its country of origin as it is in North America.


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

Bloomin' Lovely said:


> Ironically, Halloween isn't anything like as popular any more in its country of origin as it is in North America.


Actually Id argue that the country of origin of modern Halloween IS North America, as the current North American tradition bears no little or no resemblance to the historical roots it claims.

The European traditions have been on the wane for the past 2000 years, and its only over the past 20 years that its enjoyed a resurgence in the UK due to the influence of the US tradition


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## Cadaverino (Dec 10, 2007)

Phoenix_UK said:


> 1.4. Pope Boniface IV instigated All Saints day on NOVEMBER 1st and also instigated the tradition of All Hallows eve and the idea that the lost souls of purgatory should roam the earth for 48 hours, he deliberately placed it on the calendar to subjugate teh festival of the dead AND that pesky Samhain that was still in existence


Wrong Pope. Boniface IV, circa A.D. 609, did create a holy day devoted to the Virgin Mary and all martyrs, but he placed it on 13 May. The Catholic Encyclopedia:


> In the early days the Christians were accustomed to solemnize the anniversary of a martyr's death for Christ at the place of martyrdom. In the fourth century, neighbouring dioceses began to interchange feasts, to transfer relics, to divide them, and to join in a common feast; as is shown by the invitation of St. Basil of Caesarea (397) to the bishops of the province of Pontus. Frequently groups of martyrs suffered on the same day, which naturally led to a joint commemoration. In the persecution of Diocletian the number of martyrs became so great that a separate day could not be assigned to each. But the Church, feeling that every martyr should be venerated, appointed a common day for all. The first trace of this we find in Antioch on the Sunday after Pentecost. We also find mention of a common day in a sermon of St. Ephrem the Syrian (373), and in the 74th homily of St. John Chrysostom (407). At first only martyrs and St. John the Baptist were honoured by a special day. Other saints were added gradually, and increased in number when a regular process of canonization was established; still, as early as 411 there is in the Chaldean Calendar a "Commemoratio Confessorum" for the Friday after Easter. In the West, Boniface IV, 13 May, 609, or 610, consecrated the Pantheon in Rome to the Blessed Virgin and all the martyrs, ordering an anniversary. Gregory III (731-741) consecrated a chapel in the Basilica of St. Peter to all the saints and fixed the anniversary for 1 November. A basilica of the Apostles already existed in Rome, and its dedication was annually remembered on 1 May. Gregory IV (827-844) extended the celebration on 1 November to the entire Church. The vigil [i.e. All Hallows' Even] seems to have been held as early as the feast itself.


From Wikipedia:


> Pope Gregory IV standardized the date of All Saints' Day, or All Hallows' Day, on November 1 in the name of the entire Western Church in 835. As the church day began at sunset, the holiday coincided exactly with Samhain. It is claimed that the choice of date was consistent with the common practice of leaving pagan festivals and buildings intact (e.g., the Pantheon), while overlaying a Christian meaning. However, no reliable documentation indicates such a motivation in this case. While the Celts might have been content to move All Saints' Day from their own previous date of April 20, the rest of the world celebrating it on May 13, it is speculated without evidence that they were unwilling to give up their pre-existing autumn festival of the dead and continued to celebrate Samhain.


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

Cadaverino said:


> Wrong Pope. From Wikipedia:



Oops Gregory changed the date to Nov 1st, but Boniface started All Souls days, I guess the real culprit for muddying the waters was indeed Gregory

here's an interesting link

HALLOWEEN: FACTS AND MISINFORMATION


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

Jezzie said:


> Here is Australia they automatically associate Halloween with America. It drives me insane because they really don't understand or know the beginnings or history of the day. And when you tell them they look at you like you have ten heads or something because you know the history. Most of my friends here think I'm the crazy Yank, but oh well it gets them to celebrate the day and the Halloween bash we have is usually talked about at every other party through out the year!



The Australians are probably closer to the truth than most, Halloween as its currently seen is completely detached from what its supposed to be celebrating, I fully support the PoV that Halloween is an American tradition.

Druids are the same they claim to be following traditions that are millennia old, but most of them are following the fantasy of a Victorian nutcase... who claimed to be documenting such traditions, but later was found to have made it all up.... unfortunately in the space of time between his writings and unmasking a significant movement started and they are a little reluctant to accept the later evidence.


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## CMGhost (Oct 14, 2007)

Hate to interrupt about the history of Halloween, but the fact that I thought was misleading was the fact that Halloween is the 2nd biggest holiday next to Christmas... I believe it should be up there, but when Christmas decorations come out at the same time as Halloween, seems the retail market doesn't want to give any attention to Halloween...

Halloween needs to be given a bigger window to the retail market, and re-establish it as a separate holiday than Christmas...

just my opinion...good facts though


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## Spookilicious mama (Feb 27, 2008)

*Im going to print this out. Thanks for posting*


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## Junit (Sep 1, 2008)

Deadna that's an awesome idea! Let us know what you find out! I'll ask some of the lasies at my work if they trick or treated as kids.


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## The Halloween Goblin (Nov 16, 2005)

Sure getting a lot of responses! The imformation I've quoted is in a number of books on
Halloween as well as a few websites. I found this about if you want to see a witch on
Halloween.....
Put your clothes on inside out,
then walk backward to where 2 roads meet....
wait there till midnight and you'll see a witch!
If you dare!


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## Phoenix (Sep 23, 2006)

CMGhost said:


> Hate to interrupt about the history of Halloween, but the fact that I thought was misleading was the fact that Halloween is the 2nd biggest holiday next to Christmas... I believe it should be up there, but when Christmas decorations come out at the same time as Halloween, seems the retail market doesn't want to give any attention to Halloween...
> 
> Halloween needs to be given a bigger window to the retail market, and re-establish it as a separate holiday than Christmas...
> 
> just my opinion...good facts though



Interesting thought, but you definitely don't want Halloween any earlier in the year since we depend on the dark, and there isn't much time in the winter where it will comfortably fit.

Lets Move Christmas to the Summer and Thanksgiving for that matter, I'm sure we will find that everybody will prefer to have their Christmas holiday time off when the weather is nice and they can sit in the garden.... maybe Turkey BBQ's could become the new trend 

Alternatively I would support a law that made putting Christmas stuff on your shelves in September and October a hanging offence.... why cant these shops save the shelf space and sell stuff in September and October that people actually need in September and October.... is this such a dumb idea??


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## Scottish Scarer (Jan 5, 2008)

I had a turkey BBQ for christmas when we spent it in Oz, very strange experience.


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## Deadna (Oct 19, 2002)

Junit said:


> Deadna that's an awesome idea! Let us know what you find out! I'll ask some of the lasies at my work if they trick or treated as kids.


My mom said she has never TOTed and she doesn't remember anyone ever coming to their door when she was a kid. She DOES remember lots of halloween parties and mentioned all the rotten pranks the boys pulled even back then. She said at one party the boys were dropping pumpkins from a balcony onto the girls...can you imagine what would happen to those boys now a days...LOL!!!!
It was posted that the term TOT wasn't around until 34' so I figure it started in the bigger cities and made it's way across the country to small towns like hers and she missed out on the good stuff.


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## Cadaverino (Dec 10, 2007)

Deadna said:


> It was posted that the term TOT wasn't around until 34' so I figure it started in the bigger cities and made it's way across the country to small towns like hers and she missed out on the good stuff.


Some news: I just learned of an earlier use of "trick or treat", from the Lethbridge (Alberta, Canada) _Herald_, November 4, 1927:


> *“TRICK OR TREAT” IS DEMAND*
> (From Our Own Correspondent.)
> BLACKIE, Nov. 3—Hallowe’en provided an opportunity for real strenuous fun. No real damage was done except to the temper of some who had to hunt for wagon wheels, gates, wagons, barrels, etc., much of which decorated the front street. The youthful tormentors were at back door and front demanding edible plunder by the word “trick or treat” to which the inmates gladly responded and sent the robbers away rejoicing.


So, the three earliest known uses of the term "trick or treat" are from Blackie, Alberta (1927); Portland, Oregon (1934); and Helena, Montana (1934). 

First use in the _Los Angeles Times_: 1938. First use in _The New York Times_: 1947.


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