# Vortex Fog Chiller?



## ClusterOne (Feb 8, 2004)

Sorry, now first hand knowledge, but I can tell you the old dryer duct in the trash can is the best chiller I have built. I do believe there was some contraversory reguarding the Vortex vs. the DIY version...can't seem to find it know though.


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## gmacted (Aug 16, 2005)

sbbbugsy,

Back in July, I read the "how to" on how to build a Vortex chiller on the deathlord.net web site. Somewhere in the August timeframe they removed the instructions on their website. I can only assume they did this because they were trying to sell their product. Somewhere in the September timeframe, they changed the design of their Vortex fusion chiller from a cooler design to a bucket design. My guess is that the cost of a bucket was much less than the cost of a cooler. I built a version of the vortex chiller in August and tested it out. I have not yet taken or posted pictures of my finished chiller, but another Halloween forum member posted these pictures a couple of months ago. I unfortunately do not remember the posters name to give them credit. Here is a link to the pictures.

Chiller Pictures 

The chiller is basically a cooler with a tray of ice. 1/3 volume of air at the bottom, with 2/3 volume of ice at the top. The input to the chiller is made with a pseudo venturi.

I basically built this design with a 120 quart cooler and tested it out. I made a few modifications to the design after testing it with a VEI V-950 fogger. In my opinion the venturi works very well. I am very happy with my chiller, but I would not pay the prices that deathlord.net charges. Built it yourself. 

gmacted


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## scarefx (Jul 25, 2004)

gmacted said:


> ... but another Halloween forum member posted these pictures a couple of months ago. I unfortunately do not remember the posters name to give them credit. Here is a link to the pictures.
> Chiller Pictures ...


Given the album name, that would be Zombie-F.


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## torgen (Sep 25, 2005)

uh oh, looks like the photos are gone now. Since it's so hot here in Tampa, any advice on getting the fog as cool as possible is welcomed. gmacted, could you describe this in a little more detail? I had built a GotFog style chiller, but ended up stuffing the wire "tunnel" and the 6' irrigation hose with ice to get it cooled enough. It still isn't as cold as I'd like, though.


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## gmacted (Aug 16, 2005)

torgen,

I just clicked on the link and it was fine. The pictures are still there.

gmacted


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## greasemonkey (Sep 15, 2005)

I biult a cooler/chiller with the wire pipe running striaght through.
didn't do to bad kept it to about 2ft. high.

I think I will get some dry-ice chipps for halloween night,that should work alot better.


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## bdjones (Oct 7, 2005)

*Archive*

The beauty of the internet (and the bad thing if you want to run for political office one day) is that everything is saved.

Here are the instructions:
http://web.archive.org/web/20040405045954/www.deathlord.net/tomb2.htm

It will be slow because it has to uncompress everything in real time.


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## jfoster (Oct 6, 2004)

It keeps timing out on me

Jerry


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## TheCaver (Sep 6, 2005)

There are 2 types of chillers being discussed here. The Vortex is the trash can version. The Fog on The Rocks from the old deathlord.net is a cooler type chiller.....

Deathlord now only sells the Vortex I believe....And I'm not real sure whats in the guts of that one....

JC


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## gmacted (Aug 16, 2005)

The only difference between the "Fog on the Rocks" and the "Vortex" line of chillers is that the "Vortex" line has a pseudo venturi on the input and the "Fog on the Rocks" does not. From what I can see (having built one myself), the venturi allows air into the air chamber and assists in allowing the fog to expand (atomizing) in the chamber. Since hot air/fog rises, the fog rises into the ice chamber and cools. Since cool air/fog sinks, the cool fog sinks to the bottom of the chamber. Since fog is being forced into the chamber by the fog machine, the cool fog is forced out of the output, hence low lying (cool) fog.

When running experiments on my fog chiller, using a venturi, if I placed my hand over the venturi input while the fog machine was producing fog, there was a slight suction at the venturi input. This is exactly what a venturi should do. It should cause the inner chamber to have a lower pressure thus causing air to be pushed in or sucked in (depends on how you look at it).

If you visit the deathlord.net web site, you can see they have cleverly left absent the venturi input in all of their pictures. The simplest venturi, which is what I used, is a simple 2 inch y plumbing pipe.

gmacted


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## Death Wraith (Aug 31, 2005)

Found this nice page describing the evolution of the fog chiller. Includes old designs as well as a trash can chiller similar to the Vortex.

http://wolfstone.halloweenhost.com/HalloweenTech/fogchl_FogChiller69.html


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## MTUJeeper (Oct 21, 2005)

Okay guys, here is my idea for a chiller, tell me what you think. It is a lot like death lords, but I am trying to keep the fog even cooler. The fault in the death lord's design that I see, is that you have a chilled fog in the bottom half, you shoot in a hot fog that mixes with the cooled fog and then rises to be cooled, and while it shoots in, it is forcing mixed fog out. This is a quick drawing of my idea for use in a garbage can.









As you can see, I used the venturi that seems to work good with his design, but instead of allowing the hot fog to mix, I pipe it up to directly contact the ice where it will be cooled. This cooled fog will then fall downward, increasing the pressure on the fog below, and forcing it out. Because it is narrow and tall, it will have a greater pressure on the "cooled fog surface" than the wide cooler type of chiller. This should then force the chilled fog out at a greater rate. Another thing that I was thinking is that you could possibly add a secondary cooling shelf. This shelf would have to be less dense with ice to allow for the cooled fog to fall through, but because the fog would be cooler already, I don't see it melting the ice as much. The only problem I can forsee with this, is a lessening of the downward pressure of the falling cooled fog.


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## MTUJeeper (Oct 21, 2005)

Anyone? I want to get a start on building one, and wondered if my idea is worthless or not.


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## gmacted (Aug 16, 2005)

MTUJeeper,

I think your idea is good, but the only problem I see is the space restriction. I bought a 120 quart Coleman cooler. The inside height of the cooler was ~18 inches. My air gap is about 6 inches. That doesn't leave a lot of space to put in a second ice layer. It's a good idea, but you would need something very tall and I don't think you could find a cooler tall and wide enough. Basically, to cool something down you need a large surface area of ice with enough contact time. It comes down to this, the fog needs room to expand and you need a lot of ice to cool it down.

Here are some pictures of my chiller.

Fog Chiller 

Here are some pictures of the fog output along with a video.

Fog Output/Video 

gmacted


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## MTUJeeper (Oct 21, 2005)

Yeah, I was planning on using a garbage can, don't know if this would provide enough surface area for the fog or not. I might give it a shot if I can find a cheap garbage can. I would need a square one though, since it isn't too easy to build a circle out of PVC, lol.


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## gmacted (Aug 16, 2005)

If you're looking for something square that's fairly large, what about a storage container? Walmart, Target, etc. sell them. The only problem I see with a garbage can or storage container is containing the fog. If you don't have a tight seal, the fog will seep out of all the cracks. I had to use metal latches and a rubber gasket on my cooler because the pressure of the fog would push open the top of the cooler. You need to contain the pressure to push the fog out of the output.

gmacted


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## IchabodCrane (Oct 22, 2005)

Why not put your air conditionar on high to save money instead of making a bunch of stuff or buying stuff? Sounds like a money saver.


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## MTUJeeper (Oct 21, 2005)

So I just grabbed a 50 or so quart cooler laying around my house. I decided I won't experiment until affter halloween. Anyhow, what is the exact reasoning for the 1/3 air, 2/3 ice? Is it just so you don't have to keep adding ice? What would be the problem with making it 50/50? I have an antari z-800 fogger I am using. Thanks, Christian


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## azspecter (Aug 4, 2005)

I have heard that the only difference between the FOTR and the new Vortex is that the incoming pipe has a 90degree bend on it as soon as it enters the chiller- facing up through the ice, since hot air rises. Can someone confirm this? I am about to start building tomorrow and would love details.
Thanks


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## gmacted (Aug 16, 2005)

MTUJeeper,

The 1/3 to 2/3 air to ice ratio was according to the deathlord.net instructions. The air gap is to allow the fog to expand, and the ice gap is needed for ice surface area/fog contact time. I think the more ice you have, the more surface area you will have thus resulting in longer contact time resulting in colder fog. I would think you would want to stay with this ratio.


azspecter,

I added a 90 degree bend on the input inside the chiller, but have yet to run any experiments with it. My plans are to run some tests this Saturday to see which way works better. If it doesn't perform the way I'd like it to, I can always just take it off. I think it may have little to no impact in my case since I have a fogger that has a constant output. This is why I bought a large cooler (120 quart) since I wanted to have a large volume of ice with contact time as long as possible.

gmacted


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## MTUJeeper (Oct 21, 2005)

I want to use the 90 degree bend, but it puts my air gap greater than 1/3, that is why I was wondering. I will have to invest in a big cooler when I get more money seeing how I have about 9ft of blackpipe left over! haha


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## SkullAndBone (Aug 18, 2005)

Check out the 'Subsonic Chiller' tutorial for the fog chiller that won the competition at HauntCon. The thing is bad apple!!

http://www.ghostsofhalloween.com/projects/fog_chiller/


Many folks have the opinion that this is the best home built chiller available. Also its interesting how he built a fog spreader into the design.


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## mdawson8931 (Sep 20, 2005)

the trashcan with 24 ft of aluminum vent pipe is the one I have. It works great. I'v tried a couple different chillers and even modifications to the trashcan model at ghostsofhalloween.com but have yet to top just the basic trashcan model.


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## gmacted (Aug 16, 2005)

I'd put my chiller up against the 'Subsonic chiller' any day! Check out my video.

Fog Chiller Video 

My tests were done outside, not inside. The outside tempurature was somewhere between 40 and 50 with a slight breeze. Also, during my tests, I didn't even have my cooler filled with ice. I only had the ice cavity about 1/2 full with 45 lbs of ice. On Halloween I plan on using somewhere between 80 and 100 lbs of ice. I'd like to see some pictures of the 'Subsonic chiller' functioning outside where the temperature is below 70 degrees.

gmacted


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## gmacted (Aug 16, 2005)

I'd also like to add another point. My fogger has constant output, not a burst for 5 seconds and then wait 20 seconds allowing the fog to cool. The fog output on the video is what the fog machine will output all night. I plan on using somewhere between 1 and 2 gallons of fog juice on Halloween.

gmacted


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## MTUJeeper (Oct 21, 2005)

Well, I will be running some tests with mine today, the surface area for ice looks kind small, so we shall see...I think I will be buying a bigger cooler sometime soon and re-doing it.


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## Jaxon (Oct 22, 2005)

so? did you run any tests?


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## lltrojan (Oct 28, 2005)

*Unique cooler*

my wife picked up the cheap (200w) fogger from Michael's. We do an event called trunk-or-treat, where everyone decorates their trunks, back of SUV... in a big parking lot, and the kids go TOT to all the the cars. Safe, no traffic, we know the people, etc. We expect about 100 families.

Anyway, back to the point. Last year I did dry ice in the big pot and it worked well, but it is a pain. We are going with the fogger, and in the back of our van, I think the 200 will be enough. I wanted to build a chiller, but time and resources are limited, so after wandering around the net and this forum, I came up with a screwwy design to get me by. Depending on how it works, I will plan farther ahead next year. The basic idea was to get low fog into 2 pumpkins, and a pot. One of the pumpkins will have a fire/fan in the top with the fog coming out around it, the other will just have the fog fall out of the mouth. The pot will have the candy and will overflow with fog. 

I took 2 five gallon buckets one taped in the other, with the bottom cut out of the one. I have a 3" pipe angled up from the ground to the top of my bucket. Filled the bucket with ice and put the lid on. The outlet - two 3/4 inch pvc and one 1 1/4" pvc with piping to the pumpkins and the pot. the fog goes up the pipe, into the bucket, and then is forced down through the ice to outlet. It takes a minute to fill the bucket with fog, but then it rolls out good enough for what I am doing.

How much am I losing by not having the fog come in the bottom and up, then back down. My thought was that since the bucket is small at the bottom, it would just force the hot fog out before going up through the ice to cool it.

Hopefully I explained this clearly.

Thoughts?


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## gmacted (Aug 16, 2005)

lltrojan,

I see nothing wrong with your setup. The reason I'd put the inlet at the bottom is because hot air rises. Once it makes contact with the ice (after rising) and cools it will sink. Basically, convection. Since you're forcing the fog into the top and allowing the fog to make contact with the ice and then forcing it out the bottom, you're still getting ice contact time and cool fog. If anything, you may want to try and leave a small air gap at the top of the ice cavity to allow expansion room for the entering fog.

The parking lot sounds like a great TOT idea. Almost like a cruising night for Halloween. Hope your fog is a big hit.

gmacted


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## mdawson8931 (Sep 20, 2005)

Trunk or treating. Is it just me or is there something wrong with telling your small kids its ok to take candy from a stranger in a car?


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## sbbbugsy (Sep 24, 2005)

I built the trash can model with about 24 feet of drier tubing inside. It uses 5 bags of ice and works like a charm. I have a 700 watt fogger and set it to output 30 second bursts once a minute. The fog stays very low even in light breezes. It actually works better with some wind, because it then wraps the fog around our haunted house/trail.


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## lltrojan (Oct 28, 2005)

It is a private deal, not an open invite. We have a pot luck dinner first with carnival booths, etc, then the TOT. I have always been leary of teaching the kids it is ok to go to a strangers house and knock on the door for candy. One of the unique things about this holiday, most rules are tossed out, isn't that what the whole night is about?


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## Fright Zone (Oct 16, 2005)

I had some thoughts about the various fog chiller solutions today. To review what we know about hot fog rising, then creating a unit or device that chills it to force it downward into low lying fog:

1) The basic options to chill fog are the cooler variations ZOMBIE-F VERSION OF FOG ON THE ROCKS or GMACTED or RON TYE or GOTFOG or SCOTTS or DEAN ROHS, a cooler with metal ductwork HAUNTED ILLINOIS, a trash can with metal ductwork GHOSTS OF HALLOWEEN, a plastic storage bin SCREAMTV, a plastic pail VORTEX CHILLERS, a copper coil DEVIOUS CONCOCTIONS (in their Special Effects Section) or VILE THINGS, a commercial metal unit MISTER KOOL OR NORTHERNLIGHTFX, or PVC tube filled with ice LIEMAVICKS $20 CHILLER. The GEMMY at Walmart. And WOLFSTONES overall history of chillers.

2) Fog can be chilled by coming in direct contact with ice in a cooler or PVC pipe/tube. Or directed through a long length of metal ductwork chilled by ice, without fog ever touching the ice.

3) The pros of a cooler is it's insulated, therefore the ice won't melt as fast as it does inside an uninsulated plastic trash can, storage bin, PVC tube or pail. 

4) The pros of a trash can is it's height that can accept a large length of up to 50 ft of 4" metal dryer ductwork, which means more time for the fog to chill without ever needing to come in contact with ice.

5) The pros of a tall plastic pail like the Commercial Vortex Chillers means there's more height than width or length, so the heated fog rises proportionally higher and then the chilled fog forces it down with greater pressure, more-so than compared to the cooler solution. At least that's the way I understand it. More up-and-down than side-to-side fog cooling.

So in the store today I observed this:

A) Igloo makes a 48-Quart Cube Cooler which is taller than a normal cooler and is the same overall tall shape as the Vortex Chillers. Perhaps it's a happy medium in height & insulation. It's 17 x 17 x 35 as opposed to a typical 48-Quart Coleman 15 X 25.5 X 13.5? IGLOO CUBE vs. STANDARD COLEMAN. So 48-Quarts is 48-Quarts, except that the taller Igloo Cooler could either maintain more of the 1/3 fog to 2/3 ice ratio that an "On the Rocks Home-made Chiller" solution relies upon. OR since the Igloo Cube is more the proportional shape of the Vortex Chillers, it can be filled with ice and a PVC tube going straight to the top near the lid to perhaps create more downward air pressure. 

B) Note that the Vortex Fusion Fog Chiller product video, when they open it to show the ice cubes, shows the black PVC pipe goes straight close to the top near the lid. In other words ,it apparently doesn't rely on hot fog rising from the bottom to the top like the insides of an "On the Rocks" type of chiller. It literally shoots fog up to the top at a 90 degree angle and lets the ice chill the fog at the top and force it downward to the exhaust PVC pipe. PRODUCT VIDEO LINK

C) The vortexchiller.com Vortex Fusion & Vortex Mini Fog Chillers look a lot like $10 Tidy Cat Pails you can get in the store to make a Vortex Chiller yourself. TIDY CAT PAIL LINK. Note they're not all clear pails like that photo. I don't know what else is inside the Vortex Commercial Chiller, if there's a metal coil or ductwork. I doubt it based on their DESCRIPTION of their "leading cold fog distribution system."

D) So a question arises, is the best of both worlds a taller, insulated Igloo cube cooler either with a PVC pipe going straight up to the top like the Vortex Pail. OR with metal dryer ductwork wrapped inside surrounded by ice like the trash can solution?

----
Fright Zone


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## Long_Tom (Oct 26, 2005)

I have made both the cooler style and the trash can style. The trash can model wins in terms of the fog produced. 

The down side of the trash can model is that it is uninsulated, so your ice melts faster. If this is a big problem, someone on another thread suggested nesting two trash cans together -- say a 20 galllon and a 32 gallon can -- with insulation between them. I haven't done that (yet), but I'm imagining using blue foam board: a circle on the bottom of the can, strips going up the sides, and maybe some Great Stuff to fill in the gaps? I would avoid using fiberglass batting, because it probably would tend to get wet, at which point it would lose much of its insulating power.

I'm partial to the Rubbermaid Brute trash cans, because they have a flat lid. Flat is good because you can stack an obelisk or a gargoyle right on top of the thing, more or less disguising it as a fancy 3D tombstone, and leave it right out in the middle of your graveyard. (You still have to worry about sight lines for the fog machine itself, but that's a lot smaller, and for the most part it hides behind the chiller anyway.) Downside here is price. The Brutes cost 2-3 times as much as the other kinds.


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## Kurt (Sep 5, 2006)

Hey Tom,

Regarding insulation between your two bins, the air gap may be sufficient. There won't be much circulation so you shouldn't get much heat loss.

It is too late to break out the old calculator and try to calculate how much gap you might have between the two coolers, but maybe a small amount of packing peanuts might be sufficient and easier than forming something out of foam board.

A lot cheaper than a few cans of Great Stuff.

Good luck


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## Fright Zone (Oct 16, 2005)

Those are the two main things that concern me about the trash can with dryer duct inside. A) Not being insulated and B) Being too large visually (although that suggestion is a good one) & too large to store. 

Is the difference in the amount of low lying fog produced signaificantly different with the trash can compared to the cooler? Which of the many cooler variations did you try? How long does the ice in the trash can typically last? And lastly does the fact that a trashcan is vertical play into it producing more fog or just the fact that you can squeeze more ice & ductwork into one?

I've been impressed enough with the photos and videos I've seen of the cooler variations or Vortex pail, which is closer to a cooler I think than a trashcan/ductwork. But I haven't seen any good video of the trashcan outdoors to convince me.

I'd like to find out what taking the best of both the cooler and the trashcan/ductwork chiller solutions would accomplish. Probably would have to be a very large cooler to contain as much ductwork & ice as a trashcan. In theory, that seems to combine the elements of the insulation to keep the ice, and therefore the fog, chilled longer, with the longer run of the dryer ductwork chilling the fog for a longer period of time.


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## Long_Tom (Oct 26, 2005)

I only did one cooler (I forget the name, but it was the one with the ice supported on a platform, with the whole bottom of the cooler open to the ports). With that one, a fair amount of the fog tended to rise, which tells me it wasn't being chilled very effectively. 

On the trash can one, I used a 20 gallon Roughneck, with two 8' sections of semi-rigid aluminum flex duct. The fog hugged the ground much more effectively than it did with the other one. (However, I also wetted the ground last year for the first time, so that may have helped too.)

Now I wonder about that Vortex Fusion design: whether it would work to make a cooler that works the same basic way. (vent the intake at the top of the container, force it through the ice under pressure, and collect the cooled fog in some sort of chamber buried in the ice cubes for the outlet.

Kurt, thanks for the tip. Maybe just use 3 or 4 strips of foamboard to keep the inside can centered, and fill the rest with peanuts.

The other thing I've been wondering about is whether it would work to run the intake and outlet at the top of the can? It sure would be nice to contain all that melt water, instead of having it run out the bottom of the trash can all over the floor. (I don't trust my ability to seal holes at the bottom of the can.) I'm thinking you could add a couple of lengths of hose on the inlet and outlet, so it releases at floor level, and so hot fog at the inlet doesn't tend to back out of the cooler.


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## Fright Zone (Oct 16, 2005)

The cooler with the PVC platform supporting mesh with the bottom 1/3 fog and the top 2/3 ice is the "On the Rocks Chiller" that Zombie-F and gmacted show. gmacted's video shows good results. It seems to hug the stone walkway. I wonder if the cold stone has any affect. 

The others listed in my post with all the links are variations on that idea, most of which do not use the PVC ice platform, but instead pack the ice from the bottom to the top of the cooler. It's my understanding the guy named Deathlord started that idea, then later arrived at the Vortex solutions and started selling them. Like I mentioned, it looks like from the video the Vortex shoots the fog up to the top into ice inside the container. But the question is whether the ice is packed all the way to the bottom, or if it's on a platform made of mesh, or plastic with a hole in it. That's why I was thinking of having fun doing something with the Igloo Cube cooler, which is taller than it is wide like the Vortex products, yet insulated. So the three variations using the Igloo Cube would be A) The ice packed from bottom to top with the PVC fog tube shooting 90 degrees to the top of the ice inside the cooler B) That same idea, but with the ice on a platform to create a chamber of sorts at the bottom where the chilled fog would collect and be forced out by air pressure C) Cram as much ice and metal ductwork into that Igloo Cube cooler as if it were an insulated trash can.

With the trash can, I don't see why putting holes up higher would hurt, because it's all going through ductwork that just happens to be held inside a can (the ductwork is sort sort of like instestines crammed in the body that are really miles long if unstretched).


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## gmacted (Aug 16, 2005)

This topic has been brought up several times on this and other forums. Here is a link to my 2005 Halloween Video that shows my chiller in action on Halloween night. I live in New England and it can get fairly cold on Halloween night. I took this video at the end of the night after running the fogger for about 4 hours. I did not wet the grass. You can see from the video that the fog remained very close to the ground and actually rolled out into the graveyard. All the kids loved the effect. The cooler I made my fogger with held about sixty pounds of ice and I still left the 1/3 air gap at the bottom. I still had ice in the cooler the next night when I emptied it. I think the most effective part of this type of chiller is the pseudo venturi. I think that if you were to build the "trash can" style cooler that this should be included. The thing that I like the most about my setup is that you can't see my fogger or chiller. It appears to come from nowhere. Many people even asked me how I did this. I'm not sure how effective the trash can cooler would be if you had to pipe it great distances.


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## sbbbugsy (Sep 24, 2005)

*fogger venturi*

I think the venturi is a good idea. but if the fogger is placed a few inches from the entry duct of the chiller, it will draw air in on its own.

I've used the trash can chiller and my fog will stay low for quite a while. More than enough time for guests to make their way through the haunt.

For about $50 I get a chiller that is capable of lasting for up to 8 hours without refill.

In this case, it seems that bigger is better; the fog stays in contact with chilled ducting for approximately 24 feet. That's hard to beat.

I plan to build a vortex tunnel this year, and I want to put baffles inside to help circulate chilled fog through the tunnel.

Steven


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## Fright Zone (Oct 16, 2005)

I know chillers have been discussed before quite a bit, but those discussions seem to lose their focus. I had just started to compare the different variations when I saw the Igloo Ice Cube, which is the shape of the Vortex Chillers. That started me thinking about why the cooler, the trash can or the Vortex are successful and why people swear by one or the other. 

To get to the bottom of the reasons for fog chiller success, no matter what the type of chiller is, the next set of questions would be: 

A) What brand and wattage of fogger do you guys use? 

B) How long did the ice last inside anyone's trash can?

C) I'd think that no matter what, the length of time the fog is exposed to coldness is the deciding factor, or not? Would the simple fact of using a large cooler with 60 lbs of ice OR a 24 to 50 ft of dryer duct in a can be the main contribution to successful chilling? I'd think so, EXCEPT that the Vortex Chillers aren't that large at all, is what throws me off. In that case, I guess the air pressure is the deciding factor? 


For gmacted:

1) How much of your 60 lbs of ice melted that night? 

2) Did you end up using the 90 degree elbow joint to push the fog straight up inside the cooler like you had mentioned once before? 

3) I see you use 2 inch PVC successfully. Yet the successful trash can metal dryer ducts are 4 inches in diameter. Wolfstone's site seems to think 4 inches is ideal. "The fog must have an expansion area after the nozzle...For most applications the minimum diameter duct used should be 4 inches. When fog is constricted, it tends to recondense into fluid reducing the output and creating an unwanted residue." Thoughts?

4) Do you attribute your success to JUST the inclusion of the psuedo venturi? OR the psuedo venturi in combination with the larger cooler AND a continous fogger? 

5) Did you try it without the psuedo venturi Y-adapter for comparison?


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## gmacted (Aug 16, 2005)

Fright Zone said:


> I know chillers have been discussed before quite a bit, but those discussions seem to lose their focus. I had just started to compare the different variations when I saw the Igloo Ice Cube, which is the shape of the Vortex Chillers. That started me thinking about why the cooler, the trash can or the Vortex are successful and why people swear by one or the other.
> 
> I agree that these type of threads lose their focus. I hope you have more success because I'm very interested also.
> 
> ...


See my replies above.

It seems like you're at the same stage I was at last year. I wanted to make the best chiller possible. I originally was going to build another design (that I don't think you mentioned) that used a suitcase style, copper tubing, water pump, ice water chilled design. In the end I decided to build this one and I am very happy with it. I found in my readings and questions that everyone had an opinion on what the best chiller was. I finally decided that the best chiller is the one you're happy with.


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## HowDoIMlkACow (Aug 5, 2005)

Ok im thinking of making one of the trash can style chillers. Should I put salt in miced with the ice? Should it have a drain tube for melted water or should I seal up the holes where the dryer vent is and leave the water in it? Should I add dry ice in it?


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## Fright Zone (Oct 16, 2005)

@ gmacted - Thanks very much for taking time to address each point. There are a couple copper coil chiller links in my post but not one in a suitcase. I hadn't seen that one yet. 

I'd like to see you put a quick trash can chiller together and have a videotaped face off with your cooler! I'd also be curious what a 400 W fogger does with your huge cooler. But then you'd have to go get one. In other words, since you made a chiller that obviously works well even in New England weather, it would be interesting to see what certain variables would do. ie. a lower wattage fogger, or no pseudo venturi, or a 90 degree PVC to the top ala the Vortex Chillers. That takes time, you already have something that works perfectly for your purposes, and the Monster in a Box idea is too cool to get done. 

The good thing is that we know your chiller, fogger combo works, people swear by the trash can, and the Vortex looks like it works. It gives us a basis from which to start experimenting ourselves. Which is one thing I'd like to do if I can fit in, out of curiosity. I agree the best chiller is the one that works for a particular situation or effect, the area you want to cover and for how long, and what budget and time constraints are involved. One of my chillers would be hooked up to a small witch cauldron liek last year, so the affect is different than a small graveyard which I'd also want to do. When I get down to it, our yard area is too small, too close to the street and much smaller than your NE house, so I have to consider that. But low lying, lingering fog is desireable not only for effect but to keep it out of the neighbor's yard and the street. My fogging cauldron with ice inside the plastic cauldron worked fine last year except the 400 W fogger turned off a lot (so I'll put a Mini Mister inside to pick up the slack this year). That's why I was tempted to get a higher wattage fogger and that might change my chiller approach.

The one thing that's appealing about the trash can is it's relatively easy to make and doesn't require tight seals, is why I may start with one. But the insulated small-profile Igloo Ice Cube with a 90 degree 3" PVC tube going straight to the top is tempting to try with my small 400 W fogger. And only because I have the small fogger, the Igloo mimics the Vortex shape which works in their videos, no one has tried a home-made chiller with the PVC going straight to the top, and it's a smaller footprint to hide and store. 

Otherwise for certain I'd follow your photo instructions to the letter, find a VEI V-950 1300 Watt continuous fogger for $225 or a 1000 W they sell for less. That's not unreasonable to experiment with that myself. It could be fun. In any event, thanks again for your input and all important video proof and photo instructions to go by and be inspired by!

@ HowDoIMlkACow - If I make my first trash can chiller, I'd think about a drain plug, or making the dryer duct holes higher on the can as someone else mentioned. I'd also think about adding a pseudo venturi input. A 3" PVC connector will fit inside the 4" dia metal dryer duct, then using a 3" to 2" PVC adapter to a 2" Y-shaped PVC piece would create the pseudo venturi to suck more air into the chiller just to see if that works, since gmacted likes the pseudo venturi and got results with a cooler.

Walmart has a $30 50 gallon Rubbermaid Roughneck. It's black and heavy duty wih ta square lid. The sides are also square so I don't know if that impedes winding aluminum ductwork inside of it. It has small wheels that would need to be painted black. 41"x24"22" is a bit large to hide. It roughly looks like a column but not quite. It's would need to be hidden or dressed up. Maybe it could be set on it's side and still hold the ice and ductwork? They also have a smaller $4.86 26 gallon black round trash can, but it's thinner plastic. Might not hold the coldness in as well unless you buy two of them stacked. But for 2-4 hours it may stay cool. That can is short enough that you can hide it behind something like the 36" skeleton bat tombstone shown HERE ($30 at Spirit of course is $13 at Walmart).


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## gmacted (Aug 16, 2005)

Fright Zone said:


> @ gmacted - Thanks very much for taking time to address each point. There are a couple copper coil chiller links in my post but not one in a suitcase. I hadn't seen that one yet.
> 
> I'd like to see you put a quick trash can chiller together and have a videotaped face off with your cooler! I'd also be curious what a 400 W fogger does with your huge cooler. But then you'd have to go get one. In other words, since you made a chiller that obviously works well even in New England weather, it would be interesting to see what certain variables would do. ie. a lower wattage fogger, or no pseudo venturi, or a 90 degree PVC to the top ala the Vortex Chillers. That takes time, you already have something that works perfectly for your purposes, and the Monster in a Box idea is too cool to get done.


I bought two new foggers this year for my projects. I bought a 700 Watt (VEI V-919) and a 400 Watt Gemmy from Michaels. The 700 Watt is for my unearthed coffin and the 400 Watt is for the MIB. If I have time before Halloween I will certainly try and run the experiments you suggested. I am as curious as you are.

I will look forward to seeing the results of your experiments as well. Please keep this post alive as I would like to see the perfect fog chiller as well.

I have one comment about the VEI V-919. It's not half the fogger that the V-950 is. The V-950 is a 1300 Watt fogger and the V-919 is a 700 Watt fogger, but it does not produce 1/2 the fog of the 1300 Watt. The V-950 blows away the V-919 by far. I was tempted to by the 1200 Watt (two 600 Watt heaters) constant fogger that k-mart sold last year, but no one is selling it this year. I've read a lot of good things about it. Maybe you should try and find one of those.


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## Fright Zone (Oct 16, 2005)

Thanks for the fogger info. That sounds good. Even if it's after Halloween you'll be able to test the chillers out with a nice variety of fogger wattage's. That is interesting about the 700 W compared to the 1000 W because I was half thinking about getting the one at Party City. I think to do it right, we should use top quality brands like your VEI Pro Foggers, or Chauvet, Antari, American DJ, maybe Martin. Or Lemaitre if you have unlimited funds. The only thing that concerned me looking at that Kamrt 1200 W last year was that it was made out of plastic. But for a 2-4 hour yard haunt it should be fine, so that's a good suggestion. 

I also see things like a FOG ARRAY DUAL 400 W output unit. And note that the MISTER KOOL is also only 400 W. I'd assume that's because it's so close to the ice container and the container is large but not a huge ice chest or 24-50 ft of metal dryer ductwork either so it needs the lower wattage to shoot fog more slowly than a higher wattage unit would. My only concern form first hand experience with the 400 W Gemmy's is that they shut off too soon and too often to reheat. That's the main thing that bugs me about foggers that are otherwise pretty great for the price and capable of using timer remotes.

What brand of fog juice do you use?

I might be repeating myself a little here, but my usage and tests, when I can get to them within the next two weeks, will consist of a fogging plastic cauldron hooked up to a chiller via metal dryer duct. Secondly a small graveyard scene with styrofoam tombstones (of course they could break up the fog distribution). 

I'm thinking of doing the GHOSTS OF HALLLOWEEN with a black 26 gallon trash-can (hidden with a large tombstone) and 4" dia x 8 ft dryer ductwork pieces because it's cheap and easy. The ductwork will be between 16 to 24ft (2 to 3 eight foot peices taped together with 3M waterproof duct tape). The nice thing about metal dryer ductwork is you can expand and contract the length easily.

I'd also want to try what no one has that I know of, which is the Igloo Ice Cube Cooler, or a Tidy Cat Pail 12 x 9.5 x 14 for that matter, that looks a lot like the Vortex mold, with a 90 degree PVC up to the top, to mimic the Vortex Chiller. I'd put the mesh table to hold the ice at the 1/3 height level to leave room for the chilled fog to expand before it's pumped out. The metal mesh ice table would need a hole in it for the PVC tube. The Igloo Cube comes in two sizes. A large 60 qt Ultra Roller with wheels and a pop-up luggage type of handle 16 x 13 x 17 tall inside. But the wheels make the insides not as easy to work with. The 48 qt Igloo ce Cube is 13 x 13 x 15 inside. That's closer to the dimensions of the Tidy Cat pail and presumably the smaller Vortex units. 

In comparison to your results last year from the large cooler (BTW how many quarts is your cooler again?) using a 100 W constant fogger and 60 lbs of ice, Vortex RECOMMENDS 500W or 750W Martin foggers and 20 lbs of ice for use with their Fusion Chiller. The Vortex Pro Fog Chiller with a 1600W and 50 lbs of ice. The Vortex Mini they recommend a smaller 300W to 500W using 10 lbs of ice to last approx 4 hours. I'd also note none of those containers appear to be insulated.

Of course if time is money, I'd just as soon buy one of those combos and be done with it! But that's not as much fun. That Igloo Ice Cube cooler is just begging to be drilled and modified to chill fog as best as it can, and the trash can just looks too easy LOL! It's just a matter of which fogger for which size and where to drill the holes.

UPDATE: I just re-read the Vortex How it Works Page and comparing the info with the video frame of their PVC tube at the top inside the Vortex Fusion, and the still photos of the input and output holes, it looks more like the 90 degree PVC piece isn't coming UP into the top of the ice from the input, but it's what they're calling the "Vortex Collection Duct", which is in line with the output hole. So it sounds like the smoke from the fog machine rises from their "Expansion Chamber" at the bottom then up through the ice in the "Flash Freeze Chamber" then forced down through the "Collection Duct" PVC at the very top above ice level and out. What's a bit confusing is they say that "Collection Duct" BLENDS both the freezing smoke and the fog together." And the ice has to sit on something like mesh or plastic with holes in it, unless it's packed to the bottom which I doubt. After all that, I should just give credit where it's due and buy one LOL. Really my yard haunt needs are small, so I'm thinkng about it too much, but I do like seeing yard haunts swimming in fog from home-made experimental chillers regardless ; )


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## gmacted (Aug 16, 2005)

I use VEI fog juice. I bought a case (4 gallons) of it last year for ~$60 plus shipping. The shipping was reasonable since the distributor was in-state.

Thanks for the "Vortex How it works" link. I've never seen that. I think your right about the output pipe going to the top. I actually think this is a good idea and I will probably try this for Halloween. If you think about it, it kind of makes sense. The fog will expand in the lower chamber, rise and be cooled by the ice, be forced down the pipe which is also cooled by the ice and out the cooler. It would be a simple modification to make!

The reason I probably won't experiment before Halloween is because I would need to buy ~60 lbs of ice for experimentation purposes. I would rather spend that money on something else other than experimentation. At least the day after Halloween I'll still have some ice left over to experiment with.


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## Fright Zone (Oct 16, 2005)

It makes nice thick white fog. You susbcribe to the "stick with the same fluid manufacturer as the fogger". I keep reading they're calibrated for one another and then there's others that say you can use any fog juice. There's others that say the fluid at mass market retail is junk. Then there's some Low Lying foggers like the Msiter Kool I think, and defnitley the Fitco at Party America that have special Low Lying fog juice. How many times did you have to refill the tank since it's a continuous fogger?

For the output modification you'd have to cut a hole in your wire mesh tray, but I wonder if the weight of the ice would make it sag around the PVC pipe. I imagine there's way's to make the mesh and ice stay put. I wonder if the vertical design of the Vortex units have anything to do with helping the fog go down the tube and out all the way from the very top?

Our Walmart has 20 lb bags of ice for $3.14. I really never paid attention to how much ice costs, but that sounds cheap (like everything else at Wally World with an oddball price). I think I'm going to start off with the cheaper, easier, less measuring & handiwork of the trash can. I ran across this other set of INSTRUCTIONS. The step-by-step photos are very good, but the actual fog output looks impotent! 

Ironically I'll have to buy the Igloo Ice Cube to transport the big bag of ice in the car for the trash can chiller, so I may end up cutting up the Igloo afterwhile anyway. The most expensive item would be the 3 or 4" Drill bit for the cooler. Otherwise, despite a lot of materials, I priced it out to be about half of what the Vortex Fusion costs. I don't blame them for charging as much as they do. It's a time saver, unless you want to experiment and have time to DIY.


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## gmacted (Aug 16, 2005)

The VEI V-950 fogger holds about 1 gallon of fog juice so I didn't need to refill it at all on Halloween. That's another nice feature. Plus it will shut off if it runs out of juice (thermal shutoff).

The mesh tray I have is very tight and I'm not worried about putting a hole in it. It held 60 lbs of ice with no problems. Plus I still have some of the wire mesh left over that I could easily replace if I needed to.

I don't remember how much I paid for the ice, but it wasn't $3 for 20 lbs. I don't have a Walmart that sells ice. I bought mine at BJ's. I'll have to check the price again.

The problem I have with most chiller videos is that they are all tested inside. If I put my chiller in the garage and ran some tests I bet they would look incredible. That's why my videos are outside shots. That's a real world test. I'd like to see some of these chillers tested outside. I'd bet they wouldn't be nearly as impressive.


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## Fright Zone (Oct 16, 2005)

I'm thinking about getting the 1000 W Chauvet F-1050 for $80 plus the $33 timer remote and $25 fog juice. That seems like an affective fogger that won't break the bank and will stay on longer than a 400 W. Otherwise I've not heard a bad thing about those more expensive VEI Pro Foggers. You're yard looked fairly large. The 1000 W Chauvet may be overkill for me, but they said the 700 W is made of cheap plastic, and the same thing you said about fog ouput is less than one would think. These things sound like they pay for themselves if you can use them reliably year after year.

I agree with the concern most chillers don't show live tests outside. Even the Vortex Mini promo video is A) On a porch B) The porch looks intentionally watered down C) They cut the video short right as the fog starts to rise. And the Fusion test is in a closed garage. Which means it would work great for night clubs or theaters. They do have a still photo of a graveyard that looks good but it's just that, not a long video. Testimonials you have to take with a grain of salt. But a lot of people swear by their trash can chillers too. I haven't heard a bad thing about their performance, except I still haven't seen a video. And the weather conditions will vary of course. My little Gemmy Low Lying Fogger performed great one day, and it hasn't done that well since. Your video is the first that proves your chiller combo of a large cooler with lots of ice on mesh, a psuedo Venturi and a real heavy duty fogger get the job done and works outside in cold New England weather.

What type of output did you end up using. Was it the three PVC pipes we see in your step-by-step photos to spread it out more or was it something else?


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## gmacted (Aug 16, 2005)

Yes, I used a double-y (three outputs) output and connected three two inch pvc pipes to the output for distribution purposes. I think it worked rather well.


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## Fright Zone (Oct 16, 2005)

Here you go. I knew there was good reason to keep this Vortex thread alive and focused in the right direction! A link to the Vortex one-page product user manual with photos of the insides! at frightprops.com. You have to click on the "Click here for the product manual" link at the top of their page to download a PDF. 

Notice how the ice freezing chamber is about 1/3 the size, while the fog entry expansion chamber is about the 2/3 size, which is the opposite of what we've come to expect. But then again so is the output duct, which in fact is the way I thought it might be based on the How it Works description noted earlier as well as the placement of the holes. Also note the Mini uses 2" PVC, the Fusion is 3" and the Pro is 4" PVC. I don't' know yet how large the pails are (The Tidy Cat 10 gallon pail I think it was is 12 x 9.5 x 14 as noted earlier). 

And they say that "You may use other exhaust ducting other than ABS or PVC pipe such as a smooth walled heater duct. We strongly recommend NOT using any form of corrugated duct such as DRYER HOSE which will rob you of both fog density as well as velocity you need to propel the fog out to the scene. (The same dryer hose ductwork the Trash Can Chiller uses effectively. But I bet it also does not in fact force the fog out as much, or as quickly. I suppose it depends on the effect you intend to achieve, and how fast).

I'm tempted to not only mimic these Vortex photos with the Igloo Cube Cooler but also a Tidy Cat pail. Of course not to sell it, because they have patents on this hard work, and you'd get sued on top of it. But to see if it can be mimicked at home for about $80, is what I estimate. Not counting the time, effort & fun LOL. 

But I also wonder how it keeps ice cold for 4+ hours, with so little of it in uninsulated thin plastic. And I still want to see this thing work outside. It appears the Pro would do the job. Maybe the Fusion, but for how long an under what temperatures.

Truth be told if something like this works in any form, I wouldn't hesitate to tell people they can buy it instead of making it if they didn't want to or didn't have the time. That's what the guy at Home Depot asked me tonight "Does anyone sell what you're talking about?" Well, yeah they do LOL. But it's not personalized at a grassroots level like a DIY project. (Then he told me about guys who came to find parts to make a game called Hillbilly Golf (don't ask, I have no idea), and a few of them got mad that one customer came in early and got all the parts to make it!)

Btw 1, gmacted, I didn't take a printout to HD, but the Home Depot guy (who was helpful, btw) couldn't figure out what I meant by chicken wire mesh or as I think you called it "hardware wire fabric mesh". What is that mesh normally used for, and does it come in rolls or sheets? He was looking in the screen door section. They do have plastic pieces for $15 that look similar to the Vortex plastic mesh, but I assume the wire mesh is cheaper. So if I go to a hardware or home improvement store, what do I ask for, or in what section? That's the only item I couldn't find.

Btw 2, Home Depot has 4" dia x 25 ft aluminum dryer duct for $17 if you want to make a trash can chiller. The small original Ghosts of Halloween chiller they called a "3/4 trash can." It's 20 gallons because in the photos it's only up to their knees which is what a Rubbermaid is, and they only use 18 ft of dryer duct. I'd just as soon use the cheap-o Walmart 26 Gallon round black thin plastic $5 trash can for starters and hide it with a 36" $14 styrofoam tombstone.

Btw 3, Do you know of a better price for the 1000 W VEI V930 w/ timer remote $149.95? The Chauvet 1000 W F-1050 in comparison is $80 + $33 FC-4 Timer Remote = $113 (not including fog juice for either nor S&H).


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## Kurt (Sep 5, 2006)

Frightzone:
Regarding the chicken wire:
1) I purchased "poultry netting" from Home Depot in North Dallas, Tx. It had very small squares, maybe 1/4" a side.

2) I found it back in the wood/fencing section. Find the section with large chain link fencing and you'll find the bundles of poultry wire.

3) My HD also had chicken wire outside, but the holes were entirely too large.

Best of luck to you,
Kurt


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## Fright Zone (Oct 16, 2005)

Thanks, Kurt. That helps.

Also note on the user manual PDF photo of the inside of the Vortex Pro, it appears to use metal grating cut into a circle that resembles an outdoor grill (to me anyway). They have that metal grating at Home Depot. That's in fact what the Home Depot guy thought I was talking about at first, before I even saw the PDF manual ironically. With that being said, I can't recall what the product is. It wasn't by the doors, it was in the front & middle of the store. I'd have to go back and look. It's pretty thick though an may be tough to cut.


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## gmacted (Aug 16, 2005)

Fright Zone said:


> Here you go. I knew there was good reason to keep this Vortex thread alive and focused in the right direction! A link to the Vortex one-page product user manual with photos of the insides! at frightprops.com. You have to click on the "Click here for the product manual" link at the top of their page to download a PDF.
> 
> Notice how the ice freezing chamber is about 1/3 the size, while the fog entry expansion chamber is about the 2/3 size, which is the opposite of what we've come to expect. But then again so is the output duct, which in fact is the way I thought it might be based on the How it Works description noted earlier as well as the placement of the holes. Also note the Mini uses 2" PVC, the Fusion is 3" and the Pro is 4" PVC. I don't' know yet how large the pails are (The Tidy Cat 10 gallon pail I think it was is 12 x 9.5 x 14 as noted earlier).
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link. I found it interesting that they have removed the pseudo venturi altogether. They do however still recommend that you leave the fogger 3 inches away from the inlet pipe. They must be getting their air from that.

BTW. I forgot to answer one of your questions. I bought my cooler from Walmart. It's the Coleman 120 Qt. Cooler. It's the biggest one I could find.

To answer your question about the hardware wire mesh. Home Depot calls it Hardware cloth. On the Home Depot web site look under Home > Shop > Building Supplies > Fencing > Wire Hardware Cloth (I can't seem to get a link to work for this). At my local store it was sold outside by the fencing. It's sold in rolls. It's fairly heavy duty and the edges are sharp. Watch out.

I couldn't find a better price for the V-930, but DJwolrd is selling the V-940 for $189. When I bought mine, I decided for the extra $100 I would buy the V-950. I don't have any experience with the V-930 or the V-940, but you won't be disappointed with the V-950.

You may also want to send Frightners Entertainment a Private message. I know that he's a distibutor for VEI and he may be able to get you a better price.


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## Fright Zone (Oct 16, 2005)

Thanks for the info on the cooler, wire mesh and foggers. After all this I have to see what's in the budget, but it's not just any fog, it's Halloween Yard Haunt low lying, creepy lingering fog. I also guessed Vortex uses the 3" & centered nozzle rule in leiu of adding a pesudo venturi to suck air into the mix. They also make an emphatic point in the user manual about setting it up for optimum results. I bet they tried it, but found it wasn't completely necessary, and therefore they saved money in parts & fabrication to increase profits. My concern with the Vortex is that it's not insulated and their product videos are indoors. The Mini video is on a watered down porch and stops as fog starts to rise. Fwiw, FrightProps.com gave me the rough Vortex dimensions of the Mini and Fusion. So these are dimensions in comparison. Knowing they aren't the same materials. But they are closed lid containers that can be filled with ice and modified to have expansion chambers for fog and inputs and outputs. The Vortex Fusion is roughly 60 qt and the Vortex Mini roughly 48 qt.

UPDATED 17 Sep 06 2:30AM EST

Vortex Fusion with 3" ducts using 20 lbs of ice for approx 5 hours recommended for a 700-1000W or more fogger
18w x 24h x 18d rough dimensions according to FrightProps.com but I don't know how accurate that is seeing the top shape is a rectangle

Igloo Ice Cube Ultra 60qt
18.75w x 19h x 20.25d outside dimensions

Igloo Ice Cube 60 Ultra Roller 60qt
20w x 20.5h x 20.25d outside dimensions 
16w x 17h x 13d because it has angled wheel wells in the back on the inside

Igloo Ice Cube MaxCold Roller Cooler 70qt
20.5w x 19.25h x 24d shipping dimensions from target.com

Vortex Mini w/ 2" ducts using 10 lbs of ice for approx 4 hours recommended for a 400W fogger
12w x 18h x 12d rough dimensions according to FrightProps.com but I don't know how accurate that is seeing the top shape is a rectangle

Igloo Ice Cube Cooler 48qt
17.25w x 17.25h x 17.25d outside dimensions from igloo-store.com
13.5w x 15h x 13.5d actual inside dimensions

Coleman Cooler 48qt
25.5w x 14.75h x 14d outside dimensions from Internet

Coleman Cooler 120qt
38w x 17h x 17.75d outside dimensions from Internet

Igloo MaxCold Cooler 150qt
42.25w x 19.25h x 21d shipping dimensions from target.com

Tidy Cat Pail that resemebles the Vortex plastic molds
9.5w x 14h x 12d outside dimensions


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## Fright Zone (Oct 16, 2005)

Update: I decided to try the 48qt Igloo Ice Cube chiller to mimick the Vortex Mini since I have a 400W fogger on hand and am not sure if I'll get a 700W or 1000W fogger this year. This certainly won't coat the neighborhood, but I really don't want to do that this year anyhow. You have to be careful if you do it in a neighborhood with close houses and a small yard right next to the street where cops drive up & down. I'd be doing it at my late Grandma's house since they get 200+ T-O-T's. But if they sell her house by then, I'll have to do it in my parent's yard, which is oblong and the garage is really the front, which would be a challenge. They only get about 15 T-o-T's. So that would suck, is another reason I'm thinking smaller. I decided to try it for the fun of it anyhow. And the Igloo Ice Cube cooler ooks too cool. So far I spent $16 on the Cooler and about $60 on materials, not including latches, weather stripping or Krylon Fusion Flat Black plastic spray paint. I wan't to see how it works before I put the finishing touches on it. I also didn't get PVC glue. I don't think it needs it. I'll post photos and maybe video and a materials list. But basically it's the Fog On the Rocks Chiller with a psuedo venturi, only in a squarer taller cooler that no one's tried before, and the outlet duct that goes from what looks like about an inch from the top like the Vortex. It should hold about 10 lbs of ice which is a far cry from gmacted's 60 lbs of ice in a 120qt cooler which we know works well. We'll see how this concept on a smaller scale works. We'll have to assume if it does, then a larger version like the 60qt Vortex Fusion would be that much better. I'm also thinking about making the 26 gallon trash can with 4" x 25 ft aluminum dryer duct because it's easy and inexpensive, and I'd like to see the comparions between the two. I'd also think about adding the pseudo venutri to that.


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## bradg896 (Apr 5, 2006)

Okay, had to resurrect this thread. I just finished building one of the Igloo 60qt. coolers as suggested by Fright Zone. Using a 400w Gemmy from Walmart, this thing really cranks it out! Tried the pseudo venturi and it actually cut down output by about half or more. It works extremely well just placing the fogger nozzle abot 2-3" away from the intake port. The design pretty much follows all the suggestions here, 1/3 expansion, 2/3 ice, interior exhaust port about 1" from the top of the cooler, etc. I tried running it backwards (fog going in the exhaust port - coming out the intake, but it didn't really seem to put out any better. It may or may not benefit from some type of flap on the intake side to keep the fog from rolling back out while the fogger is re-heating. The only other thing I saw was the need to get a good seal on the lid or there will be alot of seepage. Considering the size and therefore ease of storage, I think this is an outstanding unit. Give it a shot, Frightzone, you are really going to like it.


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## Dr Morbius (Jan 12, 2006)

lltrojan said:


> my wife picked up the cheap (200w) fogger from Michael's. We do an event called trunk-or-treat, where everyone decorates their trunks, back of SUV... in a big parking lot, and the kids go TOT to all the the cars. Safe, no traffic, we know the people, etc. We expect about 100 families.


Is this in addition to regular TOTing? This sounds as bad as mall TOTing. Anyhow, how do you decorate a trunk? Where do you put the fog and chiller?


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## Fright Zone (Oct 16, 2005)

Let's get back on topic focused on the Vortex or Vortex-inspired DIY chiller fog chillers ; ] We need to start a separate thread for trunk-or-treating. It's interesting and I've heard of churches doing it successfully, but it takes the focus away from the fog chillers big time.

So back to the Igloo Ice Cube Vortex-inspired DIY chiller. Glad to hear it worked. I was slowly but surely putting together the 48qt Igloo Cube. I had to wait to borrow a stronger drill than my B&D 9.6v cordless to make sure the 2-3/8" hole saw bit worked on one try. It was a bit difficult to measure the cooler because its sides are slanted a bit. 

So I only had time to do a quick test indoors, and one outdoors in windy conditions today. I'll do more tests later. I have photos and video of the construction and test results, but those will have to wait ; ( Typing's faster than uploading photos & video right now.

Note: I made my 48qt Igloo Cube chiller to have a 2/3 fog expansion chamber, and 1/3 ice freezing chamber at the top, with about 3/4" to 1" space at the top between the lid to the PVC outlet pipe, which went through the hardware wire mesh ice tray to a 90 degree elbow joint to another piece of PVC as the outlet. I used the 2/3 fog to 1/3 ice ratio because that's what the photos of the Vortex Mini and Fusion look like.

I tested it with only one 7lb bag of $1 Walmart ice. It looked like it could hold 14-20lbs of ice inside if I wanted to load it up to the top. I also use the 400W Gemmy Walmart fogger.

The test results indoors were successful as expected based on everyone else's experience with home-made chillers. 

It did appear to generate heavier fog faster by placing the fog machine nozzle 3" from the inlet, compared to using a Wye PVC adapter pseudo venturi. However, outdoors you would have to be careful that the wind didn't push the fog away within that 3" gap, so that's one positive to the Wye pseudo venturi is that it's placed right up against the fogger nozzle.

Outdoors the wind destroyed the fog and it wasn't impressive, but I didn't have time to turn the cooler in a different direction either. The Gemmy pumped out good fog by itself in those conditions, but of course not laying low to the ground.

I also did not put any weather stripping, like others have done inside the cooler lid, and notice it did in fact leak fog around the lid at the point opposite the inlet. Not a great amount but it was enough to make me want to put weather stripping inside. I'm not sure how the lid closes with weather stripping, is what I can't figure out at the moment, even though gmacted and Zombie-F's construction photos show it on their regular coolers. I also didn't put any brass latches on it. But maybe that would help the fog lid seepage if I did. I also experienced backwash from the inlet and Wye pseudo venturi, but not a great deal. 

I would also use the Krylon Fusion Flat or Satin black spray paint to paint the chiller. It adhears to plastic without the need for sanding or primer. Zombie-F used it in his chiller construction photos.

It was a good initial test. but it really needs to be tested outdoors more. I think a 1000W constant fogger and lots of ice like gmacted's is the only sure bet if you can afford to do it, but I don't need to coat the yard with fog all night, so maybe next year I'll be able to step-up to the higher wattage fogger to see how a chiller performs with it. As it stands the Igloo cube is a nice compact size to hide and store.


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## hacksaw42 (Sep 18, 2004)

Colud not find the PDF file.


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## hacksaw42 (Sep 18, 2004)

Could! Should have been.


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## hacksaw42 (Sep 18, 2004)

Somebody send it to me.


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## hacksaw42 (Sep 18, 2004)

So in the smaller cat pail looking chiller it is just a tube going stright up to the lid and then the fog comes back down thru the ice? Thats what it looks like in the video.


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## sbbbugsy (Sep 24, 2005)

Fright Zone said:


> Let's get back on topic focused on the Vortex or Vortex-inspired DIY chiller fog chillers ; ] We need to start a separate thread for trunk-or-treating. It's interesting and I've heard of churches doing it successfully, but it takes the focus away from the fog chillers big time.


Yes, let's get back on topic. I was looking for someone with FIRSTHAND knowledge of the Vortex fog chiller, not a how-to on their own ideas or test data on home built chillers.

Steven


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## Otaku (Sep 10, 2004)

I think the Vortex design has the hot fog coming in the short side pipe, going up through the ice layer, and then out the longer pipe. The theory is that heat rises, but in a system like this the fog really has only one place to go regardless of which pipe it comes in through.
I tried reversing the flow direction and got siginificantly better results. My next test will be minus the wye at the fog inlet, since I've read that it reduces fog volume.
I used a FOTR 52 qt. chiller, modified to the Vortex design. The inner surface of the lid is concave, and by filling the chamber to about 1-2" below the height of the wall I was able to maintain an expansion area.
I tested it with a 700 watt Fog F/X machine and was very satisfied with the results. All my tests were with about 50% of the total ice capacity in the chiller, so I'm expecting some improvement when I add more ice. I highly recommend sealing the lid - I had quite a lot of leakage until I put some high-density foam tape weatherstripping in the groove in the lid. Solved the leak problem very nicely. I'll try to post a video of the next set of tests. Incidentally, the results I got were definitely improvements over the original FOTR.

Edit - I agree that it would be good to hear from someone using an actual Vortex chiller. Can someone throw in some personal experience?


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## Fright Zone (Oct 16, 2005)

That's just the problem. We haven't found anybody with first-hand knowledge of buying or using one of the Vortex chillers : ( Unfortunately the tesitmonials from any product site have to be taken with a grain of salt. Why don't we just buy one? Because they look a little pricey is the general concensus. I wanted to try the DIY chillers because everyone here seems to have made one and liked it. BUT no one has really looked at what makes the Vortex design tick. And now we've examined the Vortex more closely. That's why it's still on topic to discuss a home-made Vortex variation, until someone actually posts: "I bought one. It doesn't work!" or "I used one. It works!" It does take a lot more effort to make a DIY chiller. If time is money, then it's easier to buy a Vortex and hope it works as advertised for a specific situation. But if you really want to know if it works, sounds like you'll have to just buy one. (And ask if they have a money-back guarantee). The only email I sent Vortex, when I thought about buying the Mini was not answered : ( I guess they thought the answer was in the content of their site. Or perhaps they thought: "Just buy one on and find out." So then I built one for fun and out of curiosity only because I found the Igloo Cube shaped cooler which no one had tried and mimicks the shape of the Vortex Mini and Fusion. I am finding out the basic design concept works, so the Vortex product itself must work, BUT does it work outdoors in windy conditions or cold conditions? I'd venture a guess only the top Pro model with a high wattage expensive fogger would work halfway decent in windy conditions, and based on gmacted's DIY 120qt cooler chiller with a constant 1000W fogger video, it would also work in cold Halloween weather. But we won't know until someone here buys a Vortex. I'm not buying one this year. If I hadn't run across the Igloo Cube, I might have. The PDF manual link is gone from frightprops.com.


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## Otaku (Sep 10, 2004)

There's a similar thread over on HauntForum, and I think someone saved a .jpg of the PDF manual page for posterity.


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## Fright Zone (Oct 16, 2005)

I saved the PDF also. That forum was interesting. Same things said here except shorter answers. But I don't get credit for my contributions or findings LOL. 

So the highlights: At least one person owns a Vortex (didn't say which size) and seemed to like it, and another person who saw it work well at a trade show, but also saw a home-made (imagine that) plastic bucket version from a guy selling fog juice that they surmised worked as well if not better than the Vortex. I assume both were operating there indoors.

I did tests with my Vortex knock-off 48qt Igloo Ice Cube tonight on my covered porch outdoors. I took about 50 minutes of video because I tried different things and had some tests hooked up to a plastic cauldron. I don't know if I'll bother posting any or not since video files are large, and they aren't the Vortex itself. But take my word, the results were good. I was satisfied.

I used a 400W Gemmy fogger. The ice lasted great.

Results were also good from a 26 gallon trash can with two pieces of 4" x 8 ft aluminum dryer duct. But I think the cooler distributes the fog thru the wall of ice freezing chamber more evenly so the output is more under control than the trash can, IMHO. I'll use both this Halloween. One hooked up to the cauldron, one behind a graveyard. And pray for no wind. Both chillers should at least keep the fog under control so it doesn't look like the neighborhood is on fire.

I also tried the set-up using the outlet as the inlet. I set the Gemmy on a Mini Mister box since the intended outlet is higher. So the fog went straight to the lid inside the 90 degree elbow joint like others tried. It seemed to exhibit less leakage around the lid and seemed more forceful coming out the other PVC opening.

I also tried a 3" x 6 ft aluminum dryer duct on the end and it worked just fine. 

I also hooked that duct to a plastic 14" cauldron (with a Mini Mister inside a smaller cauldron inside that) and the effect of the chilled fog flowing over the sides was nice and it lingered a while yet still had fog flowing around the ground outside the cauldron.

I also thought the pseudo venturi worked better with that reverse set-up, while the 3" gap between the fogger nozzle and the PVC opening, minus the pseudo venturi, worked good for the original set-up of the inlet being at the the bottom.

I also turned a small fan on low and medium to simulate windy conditions and of course it destroyed the fog BUT there was a still a good amount laying low. Not too bad. 

More fun than paying too much for a chiller. But the amount of time it took to research, buy parts, build and test it would be cheaper to buy one.

No matter which route you go, I'm convinced now any of the chillers should work fine, and the inlet and outlet are flexible enough you can attach ductwork, PVC, use the pseudo venturi or not, or hook it up to something or just let it lay low.

Bottom line, based on the findings with the Igloo Cube cooler imitating the design of the Vortex, I'd say the Vortex would work just fine BUT it's not insulated, so I'd wonder how long ice really lasts in the plastic pail would be my only concern. That and the cost.


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